Medical Marijuana Stocks As An Investment?

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Munchkin Man
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Medical Marijuana Stocks As An Investment?

Post by Munchkin Man »

Greetings To All:

The Munchkin Man has a confession to make.

About two weeks ago, on the date of February 04, 2011, the Munchkin Man invested in a medical marijuana stock.

In case you're wondering..............

Yes, it was also a penny stock.

The name of the company is Cannabis Science, Inc.

It's ticker symbol is CBIS.

The Munchkin Man bought it for $0.041 per share.

The Munchkin Man bought this stock because it was selling near its all time historical low.

The Munchkin Man also had a "feeling" this stock would soon "get high", if you can pardon the pun.

At the same time, the Munchkin Man felt guilty about buying this stock.

The Munchkin Man has mixed feelings about the entire medical marijuana issue.

That's why the Munchkin Man did not post a message about this stock on this forum.

The Munchkin Man was feeling a little ashamed of himself.

Back in the Munchkin Man's college days, the Munchkin Man had a number of friends who were conservative, clean cut, clear headed, and perfectly sane.

Then some of them started to smoke marijuana.

As a result, they turned into hippies.

Then they were no longer conservative, clean cut, clear headed, and perfectly sane.

Fortunately, most of them eventually quit smoking marijuana, got their hair cut, and gave up their hippie ways.

Unfortunately, the Munchkin Man still has a few of these friends who still remain as hippies today.

The Munchkin Man now has another confession to make.

During a brief time during the Munchkin Man's life, the Munchkin Man became a hippie too.

Fortunately, the Munchkin Man later snapped back to reality and regained his sanity.

The Munchkin Man values his sanity very much.

The Munchkin Man hates to see people lose their sanity to marijuana.

On the other hand, if there are bona fide and legitimate uses for medical marijuana, the Munchkin Man does not want to stand in the way and prevent its use for genuine medicinal purposes, if they truly exist.

On the other hand, there are those who believe that the medicinal claims in support of medical marijuana are completely bogus.

Dr. Michael Savage, who is one of the Munchkin Man's favorite talk radio show hosts, is one of them.

He does not believe in medical marijuana.

The Munchkin Man respects his knowledge.

He has a Master's Degree in Botany.

On the other hand, nobody is right about everything.

On the date of Tuesday, February 22, 2011, the following news was released about this company:

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Cannabis- ... l?x=0&.v=1

Even the Munchkin Man will admit that this sounds like one of those articles that are "too good to be true."

Cannabis is killing cancer cells?

That's a mighty big claim.

In any event, this news sent the share price of this stock to significant "highs" yesterday.

Yesterday, on the date of February 23, 2011, the Munchkin Man sold 50% of the Munchkin Man's shares in this stock, at a price of $0.115 per share.

As stated earlier, the Munchkin Man first purchased this stock, at a price of $0.041 per share, a little over two weeks ago.

This is equivalent to a percent gain of +180.49% for the Munchkin Man.

That's a nice profit.

The Munchkin Man's remaining shares are now all "free" shares.

Yet, the Munchkin Man is still feeling guilty.

The Munchkin Man's conscience has still not come to a final resolution in regard to the issue of medical marijuana.

If somebody truly needs medical marijuana for a legitimate medical reason, and if it can be shown that medical marijuana exerts a positive healing effect upon a person's medical condition, then the Munchkin Man would not want to deny it to that person.

On the other hand...............

The Munchkin Man hates to see people turn into hippies.

How do the Munchkin Man's fellow Bogleheads feel about the issue of medical marijuana?

The Munchkin Man welcomes your honest comments and opinions.

Good luck to all.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man
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Scott S
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Post by Scott S »

I've known people who smoked and remained functional, respectable, and clean-cut. I think there are pragmatic reasons to pursue legalization, but there is a lot of misinformation clouding the issue, for lack of a better term. So I personally would have no trouble investing in it.

I'll stop there.

- Scott
infecto
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Post by infecto »

IMO pot is no different than alcohol and even tobacco (without the buzz of course). I have a strong belief that pot should be legalized and taxed like any other good. In the United States we spend billions of dollars trying to fight something that if legalized would not hurt others that did not participate. In other words I would not feel guilty.
Jacobkg
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Post by Jacobkg »

As a total markets investor. I am sure that I own shares in companies whose products or business practices I would not approve of. I do not know how to feel about this. Thanks for bringing up this topic MM as it is not often discussed on Bogleheads.
statsguy
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Post by statsguy »

My doctor suggested medical marijauna to treat my pain. I have not purchased any... but after reading your post... I am now wondering if a side effect may be that I grow my hair back

later dude

Stats
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cinghiale
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Post by cinghiale »

MM,
I do not see a connection between a company that involves itself with medical marijuana and the sale of marijuana for private use. At present, there is a small legal exception for the use of medical marijuana for a short list of approved maladies. The company you invested in is not peddling the stuff on the side to perk up its profits (right?).

A bit of context: all of us who use index funds "own" tobacco stocks. If you index, it cannot be avoided.

Is your moral queasiness specific to this stock and this product? Would you have the same qualms about owning an individual tobacco stock, or liquor stock, or defense stock? In the end, I think most people who respond to this thread will tell you that it is your call. And if your discomfort exceeds your stock-picking interest, it sounds like you can get out with a tidy profit.
"We don't see things as they are; we see them as we are." Anais Nin | | "Sometimes the first duty of intelligent men is the restatement of the obvious." George Orwell
The Wizard
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Post by The Wizard »

CA allows medical marijuana scripts for "anxiety". I suspect this is not hard to get diagnosed...
lazyday
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Post by lazyday »

cinghiale wrote:A bit of context: all of us who use index funds "own" tobacco stocks. If you index, it cannot be avoided.
Depends how strictly you define "index".

There's Socially Responsible Investing (SRI) indexes. Vanguard offers one or more.

Bridgeway offers BRLIX, the Blue Chip 35 index, or Ultra Large Cap Index, set up to hold about 35 of the largest US companies, adjusted for industry diversification, and leaving out any tobacco companies.
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greenspam
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Post by greenspam »

if you feel guilty about it, but still want to cash in on their success, just sell your shares of CBIS, and use the proceeds to buy PEPSICO stock.

(PEPSICO owns Frito-Lay, which makes Doritos, Cheetos, Fritos, and Lays potato chips).


"i think they call that the munchies" (Jack to Greg in "Meet the Parents")
as always, | peace, | greenie.
grberry
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Post by grberry »

I can't really discuss medical mariuana without discussing politics, which is verboten here.

What I can say is that I don't approve of buying penny stocks; it is far, far too risky to do even if you get lucky as you say you have done.
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Post by Sam I Am »

Message deleted.
Last edited by Sam I Am on Fri Oct 25, 2013 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ozonewanderer
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Post by Ozonewanderer »

I might buy into a marijuana mutual fund. Over the long term I think it will be legalized.
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Scott S
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Post by Scott S »

Ozonewanderer wrote:I might buy into a marijuana mutual fund. Over the long term I think it will be legalized.
This seems like as good a time as any to ask: is your username inspired by Commander Cody? :wink:

- Scott
yobria
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Post by yobria »

Pot's about as harmful as beer. Many of my high functioning professional friends partake. Failing to legalize just puts money and power in the hands of the bad guys.

Nick
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VictoriaF
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A growth investment?

Post by VictoriaF »

Would that be a growth investment?

Victoria
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roymeo
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Post by roymeo »

Invest in something legal and safe, like bath salts: http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/sto ... &catid=250
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SSSS
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Post by SSSS »

I predict that your stock will hit $4.20 per share at some point.
markus
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Post by markus »

Nice trade Dude!!
Please post next trade in advance as I want to invest in Doritos when you buy again.
(Note to self: No more smoking during day trading.)
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Post by chaz »

Munchkin Man, congrats on your good timing.
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bdpb
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Re: Medical Marijuana Stocks As An Investment?

Post by bdpb »

Munchkin Man wrote: About two weeks ago, on the date of February 04, 2011, the Munchkin Man invested in a medical marijuana stock.
Was that "a medical marijuana stock" or just "medical marijuana stock?"
SP-diceman
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Re: Medical Marijuana Stocks As An Investment?

Post by SP-diceman »

Munchkin Man wrote:
Yes, it was also a penny stock.
A penny stock, I would have thought a nickle would be the going rate?
My 2 cents, I think medical marijuana is bogus.


Thanks
SP-diceman
shoetrip
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Post by shoetrip »

Alcohol, cigarettes and medicating hundreds of thousands of little boys into a camatose state with ritalin because they are energetic?

Yet cannibis is an bad drug that will turn our youth into a bunch of drug addicts?

I choke on the hypocrisy.
Jack
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Post by Jack »

Munchkin Man, if you are taking medical advice from Michael Savage, you may be endangering your life. Not only is he a proponent of herbalism and homeopathy, he is also an autism denialist.
Michael Savage wrote:Now, the illness du jour is autism. You know what autism is? I'll tell you what autism is. In 99 percent of the cases, it's a brat who hasn't been told to cut the act out. That's what autism is. What do you mean they scream and they're silent? They don't have a father around to tell them, "Don't act like a moron. You'll get nowhere in life. Stop acting like a putz. Straighten up. Act like a man. Don't sit there crying and screaming, idiot.
I would be willing to pay big bucks for a pay-per-view cage match between Jenny "vaccines cause autism" McCarthy and Michael "autism doesn't exist" Savage.
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LadyGeek
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Post by LadyGeek »

This is no different than those who choose to invest in Social Responsibility Indices. Perhaps this could be considered part of a Social Irresponsibility Index? Casino gambling stocks, horse racing stocks, etc. Very volatile.

Remember that the Bogleheads Guide To Investing has an entire chapter called "Mastering Your Investments Means Mastering Your Emotions". When it's time to make investing decisions, check your emotions at the door. Munchkin Man feels guilty, which will affect his investing judgment. Perhaps it's time to move to another stock category.
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exoilman
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Post by exoilman »

Have some fun :lol: :lol:

http://www.neave.com/imagination/

Sam
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Opponent Process
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Post by Opponent Process »

Munchkin, I just submitted an NIH grant to study endogenous cannabinoids (eCBs, i.e., the body/brain's own cannabinoids), although we also take private donations in case your penny stock pays off. In the meantime, we're working with some new drugs that prevent the breakdown of eCBs and exhibit much of the analgesic and anxiolytic effects of THC while producing less tolerance and dependence liability and fewer undesirable psychoactive effects.
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staythecourse
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Post by staythecourse »

Opponent Process wrote:Munchkin, I just submitted an NIH grant to study endogenous cannabinoids (eCBs, i.e., the body/brain's own cannabinoids), although we also take private donations in case your penny stock pays off. In the meantime, we're working with some new drugs that prevent the breakdown of eCBs and exhibit much of the analgesic and anxiolytic effects of THC while producing less tolerance and dependence liability and fewer undesirable psychoactive effects.
That will be interesting since drugs that work on cannibinoid receptors have fallen flat thus far despite being chemically the same as marijuana.

Good luck.
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greenspam
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Post by greenspam »

opponent process,

could you possibly provide a brief "eCB's for dummies" -- ie, what makes them, when are they produced, in response to what, what are their half-lifes...etc.

is this somehow relatd to exercise, aka the 'runners high', or, is it related to pain??? interesting stuff.
as always, | peace, | greenie.
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Scott S
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Post by Scott S »

greenspam wrote:opponent process,

could you possibly provide a brief "eCB's for dummies" -- ie, what makes them, when are they produced, in response to what, what are their half-lifes...etc.

is this somehow relatd to exercise, aka the 'runners high', or, is it related to pain??? interesting stuff.
The "runner's high" comes from endorphins, which trigger entirely different receptors than cannabinoids. (At least, that is my understanding...)

- Scott
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Post by Hedonic Regression »

lazyday wrote: There's Socially Responsible Investing (SRI) indexes. Vanguard offers one or more.
If it weren't for the unconscionably high ER, I'd be a big fan of VICEX :twisted:
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Opponent Process
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Post by Opponent Process »

greenspam wrote:opponent process,

could you possibly provide a brief "eCB's for dummies" -- ie, what makes them, when are they produced, in response to what, what are their half-lifes...etc.

is this somehow relatd to exercise, aka the 'runners high', or, is it related to pain??? interesting stuff.
for a general overview:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endogenous ... oid_system

they are synthesized "on demand" after excessive neuronal activity in a given region, and are somewhat concentrated centrally in limbic (emotional and motivational) brain centers. they also function throughout the body including in immune cells and peripheral nerves. they act to precisely shape neuronal signaling in these areas, for effective neuronal communication. "precisely" is the key word here. when you smoke pot or take a strong cannabinoid receptor activator you stimulate the system in a much more blunt and non-specific way, and a much more powerful way. it's like you released all your eCBs at once. as a result, you might experience some complex and contradictory emotions and experiences, such as relaxation followed by anxiety, or pain relief followed by paranoia.

over time, you develop tolerance to the good things, and sometimes exacerbation of the bad things, and this can lead to dependence (in some folks, with extended use, as diagnosed by a psychiatrist), where you're trying to self-medicate just to get back to normal.

this is very similar to the endogenous opioid system, which also serves a beneficial purpose in analgesia and natural reward signaling (food, sex, etc.). it's only when you start introducing more powerful drugs that "hijack" the natural systems that you sometimes get trouble. we're trying to find drugs that are somewhere closer to the natural potency of the brain's own chemicals, and obviously more specific to cut down on side effects. alternatively, my guess is most types of group therapy, meditation, close loving relationships, etc. probably act in part through these mechanisms to effect positive behavioral change (or maintenance), but this is more expensive and people prefer pills in a pinch.

the endogenous opioid system (including the endorphins) mediates some of the effects of "runner's high". this particular euphoria can be reduced with drugs that block endogenous opioid activity. another part of what the opioids are doing here is naturally inhibiting pain, so you can complete that marathon despite having a bum knee that would stop the other guy from even getting off the couch. the brain is very good at titrating the doses needed for maximal effect (and no side effects), whereas humans will push the envelope and make themselves dependent, especially when they have access to highly purified and potent stimulators of these systems.
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dmcmahon
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Post by dmcmahon »

My personal opinion on marijuana legalization nonwithstanding, the business is still illegal under federal law, which, last time I checked, has supremacy over state laws. So, I might generalize your question to: would you invest in an illegal business? Answer for me personally: not knowingly.
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Post by Ozonewanderer »

Scott S wrote:
Ozonewanderer wrote:I might buy into a marijuana mutual fund. Over the long term I think it will be legalized.
This seems like as good a time as any to ask: is your username inspired by Commander Cody? :wink:

- Scott
Not consciously but then the album was around when I was experimenting with a new crop that held some future for investing. The name probably got lost somewhere in one of my neurons way back in the '70's and popped out one day when my head cleared and I needed an incognitio ID. :peace
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Post by zaplunken »

Congrats to the MM for an astute purchase, 180% annualized is nothing to sneeze at.

What I want to know is why is the ticker CBIS, wouldn't POT or WEED be more appropriate? 8)

I understand the MM conflict about contributing to something that he may not approve of. However, we all invest in companies we hate when we buy mutual funds. I hate Monsanto and ADM to name a few and would love to see them bankrupt but I own them in the TSMI I'm sure.

It's not a perfect world and if you want to make some money then who cares about the product. People won't stop using it for medical or recreation reasons because you fail to hold CBIS.

Marijuana is much less harmful than tobacco or alcohol IMO and I have had extensive experience with pot when I was young but phased out of it in the late 80's. Now I don't want to smoke pot because I like being in control and I like the feeling of being not high. For all the money wasted on the war on drugs it is a failure. Legalize it and tax it but I'm getting off from the MM reason for posting.

Hey maybe instead of dividends they'll send the MM some joints. :shock: Far out man....
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stratton
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Post by stratton »

No thanks.

Paul

PS I did not inhale.
...and then Buffy staked Edward. The end.
SP-diceman
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Post by SP-diceman »

May want to also diversify with PepsiCo stock.
(they own Frito-Lay and should see improved profits when the
“munchies” kick in)

Thanks
SP-diceman
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Post by SSSS »

Jack wrote:I would be willing to pay big bucks for a pay-per-view cage match between Jenny "vaccines cause autism" McCarthy and Michael "autism doesn't exist" Savage.
They could both be right... maybe vaccines don't exist! :shock:
LadyGeek wrote:This is no different than those who choose to invest in Social Responsibility Indices. Perhaps this could be considered part of a Social Irresponsibility Index? Casino gambling stocks, horse racing stocks, etc. Very volatile.
Check out the mutual fund "VICEX".
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Post by bamiller »

I bet the dividends they pay are are fantastic! Just kidding. If it's legal I personally would have to problem investing in it.
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Post by honkeoki »

LadyGeek wrote:Perhaps this could be considered part of a Social Irresponsibility Index? Casino gambling stocks, horse racing stocks, etc. Very volatile.
Great idea, LG, but someone already had it.

I love the graphic on that page -- gaming, tobacco, alcohol and defense -- just like the Merchants Of Death from Thank You For Smoking! All they need are some fast food stocks...

Edited to add: Aargh, SSSS -- you beat me to the punch...
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Post by The Wizard »

dmcmahon wrote:My personal opinion on marijuana legalization nonwithstanding, the business is still illegal under federal law, which, last time I checked, has supremacy over state laws. So, I might generalize your question to: would you invest in an illegal business? Answer for me personally: not knowingly.
Without getting intensely political, I do believe that the federal powers that be have stated that they WILL NOT be interfering with medical marijuana transactions in states where it is legal.

Here is a DOJ memo on this from 18 months ago:
http://blogs.usdoj.gov/blog/archives/192
Last edited by The Wizard on Fri Feb 25, 2011 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by norookie »

The Wizard wrote:
dmcmahon wrote:My personal opinion on marijuana legalization nonwithstanding, the business is still illegal under federal law, which, last time I checked, has supremacy over state laws. So, I might generalize your question to: would you invest in an illegal business? Answer for me personally: not knowingly.
Without getting intensely political, I do believe that the federal powers that be have stated that they WILL NOT be interfering with medical marijuana transactions in states where it is legal.
--political comment deleted--
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Scott S
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Post by Scott S »

honkeoki wrote:
LadyGeek wrote:Perhaps this could be considered part of a Social Irresponsibility Index? Casino gambling stocks, horse racing stocks, etc. Very volatile.
Great idea, LG, but someone already had it.

I love the graphic on that page -- gaming, tobacco, alcohol and defense -- just like the Merchants Of Death from Thank You For Smoking! All they need are some fast food stocks...

Edited to add: Aargh, SSSS -- you beat me to the punch...
Wow, 2% expense ratio! Thanks, but no thanks... :(

- Scott
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Post by Swamproot »

zaplunken wrote:...What I want to know is why is the ticker CBIS, wouldn't POT or WEED be more appropriate? 8)
...
Actually POT is already taken. Although Potash is the main trip of the Potash Corporation of Saskatche. Man.

Also, I just can't resist saying there is probably noone in this world that needs a Medical Marijuana prescription more than Dr. Michael Savage. And that is all I will say about that.
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Post by Random Musings »

Munchkin Man,

I hope your foray into pot has been more satisfying than the more recent returns on uranium type investments.

URA Global X Uranium ETF

NLR has been another good one. Perhaps it is time to rebalance and buy, buy, buy !!!

Just remember not to smoke all your profits away on CBIS.

RM
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stratton
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Post by stratton »

Lot's of these.

Pot IPOs sprouting up to cash in on booming medical marijuana business

Companies Betting on Pot as Emerging Industry

Going Up In Smoke: 3 Medical Marijuana Stocks

One of the risks here is someone from Dept of Homeland Security shows up with arrest warrants and weed killer.

Paul
...and then Buffy staked Edward. The end.
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Post by Valuethinker »

stratton wrote:Lot's of these.

Pot IPOs sprouting up to cash in on booming medical marijuana business

Companies Betting on Pot as Emerging Industry

Going Up In Smoke: 3 Medical Marijuana Stocks

One of the risks here is someone from Dept of Homeland Security shows up with arrest warrants and weed killer.

Paul
http://www.gwpharm.com/gw-investors.aspx

medical cannaboids company. Sativex licensed in the UK for MS sufferers

This should not be constituted as a stock recommendation.
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Post by Valuethinker »

dmcmahon wrote:My personal opinion on marijuana legalization nonwithstanding, the business is still illegal under federal law, which, last time I checked, has supremacy over state laws. So, I might generalize your question to: would you invest in an illegal business? Answer for me personally: not knowingly.
GW Pharma. http://www.gwpharm.com/gw-investors.aspx

They have at least one drug licensed with the UK National Health Service.
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stratton
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Post by stratton »

Valuethinker wrote:
dmcmahon wrote:My personal opinion on marijuana legalization nonwithstanding, the business is still illegal under federal law, which, last time I checked, has supremacy over state laws. So, I might generalize your question to: would you invest in an illegal business? Answer for me personally: not knowingly.
GW Pharma. http://www.gwpharm.com/gw-investors.aspx

They have at least one drug licensed with the UK National Health Service.
I'm surprised one of the small companies that specialize in narrow sector etfs hasn't created a global marijuana fund.

I'm also surprised there isn't a global tobacco fund. Even if it only had 6 or 7 companies in it. The SEC would be under immense pressure to disallow it and political risk is high.

Paul
...and then Buffy staked Edward. The end.
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Munchkin Man
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Post by Munchkin Man »

Random Musings wrote:Munchkin Man,

I hope your foray into pot has been more satisfying than the more recent returns on uranium type investments.

URA Global X Uranium ETF

NLR has been another good one. Perhaps it is time to rebalance and buy, buy, buy !!!

Just remember not to smoke all your profits away on CBIS.

RM
Greetings Random Musings:

The Munchkin Man would like to thank you for your post and words of wisdom above.

When the markets opened on the date of Monday, March 14, 2011, the Munchkin Man sold all of the Munchkin Man's Uranium holdings, in response to the disaster with the nuclear reactors in Japan.

One of these holdings was the Global X Uranium ETF, whose ticker symbol is URA, and which you cited above.

On the date of Friday, March 18, 2011, the Munchkin Man bought back into URA, at a price that was substantially lower than the price the Munchkin Man had originally paid for it the first time.

In spite of this setback, the Munchkin Man still remains bullish on Uranium for the long term.

The Munchkin Man still owns the Munchkin Man's free and remaining shares in CBIS.

The Munchkin Man has no plans to purchase any additional shares of CBIS at this time.

In closing, the Munchkin Man would like to thank you once again for your post and words of heartfelt guidance.

Good luck to you.

Best Wishes,

Munchkin Man
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zed
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Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2009 3:01 pm
Location: A river runs thru it

Post by zed »

dmcmahon wrote:My personal opinion on marijuana legalization nonwithstanding, the business is still illegal under federal law, which, last time I checked, has supremacy over state laws. So, I might generalize your question to: would you invest in an illegal business? Answer for me personally: not knowingly.
Recently relocated to western Montana. The Feds have raided several "legal" medical marijuana production facilities and distributors. They confiscated everything for ... ahem ... tax reasons.

zed
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