Can you transfer < $100K Admiral shares in kind?
- nisiprius
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Can you transfer < $100K Admiral shares in kind?
A Fidelity rep says my order to transfer $15,000 worth of VTSAX in kind from Vanguard to Fidelity has gotten stalled because it is not possible to transfer less than $100K of an Admiral Shares fund in kind.
I'll be following up, of course, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this. Specifically, has anyone successfully done an in-kind transfer of <$100K of an Admiral Shares fund to Fidelity?
Thought #1: Maybe someone at Fidelity just "didn't get the memo" about $10,000 being the new Admiral threshold?
Thought #2: Mr. Cynical here: is it even thinkable that Vanguard didn't make all of those automatic conversions out of sheer goodness of their heart, but also with the idea of creating a (very gentle and easily surmounted) lock-in?
(Yes, I know I can convert back to Investor easily. At least I think it's easy).
With all eligible Vanguard accounts over $10,000 being automatically converted to Admiral, I suspect brokerages will be seeing many requests for in-kind transfers of small Admiral Shares holdings.
I'll be following up, of course, but I'm wondering if anyone else has encountered this. Specifically, has anyone successfully done an in-kind transfer of <$100K of an Admiral Shares fund to Fidelity?
Thought #1: Maybe someone at Fidelity just "didn't get the memo" about $10,000 being the new Admiral threshold?
Thought #2: Mr. Cynical here: is it even thinkable that Vanguard didn't make all of those automatic conversions out of sheer goodness of their heart, but also with the idea of creating a (very gentle and easily surmounted) lock-in?
(Yes, I know I can convert back to Investor easily. At least I think it's easy).
With all eligible Vanguard accounts over $10,000 being automatically converted to Admiral, I suspect brokerages will be seeing many requests for in-kind transfers of small Admiral Shares holdings.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
I don't think the other companies/brokerages are honoring the new lower limits for admiral shares.
I think I read that in a post several weeks ago somewhere on this forum.
Now tell me why you are planning the move?
Do you not like your neighbors?
Steve
I think I read that in a post several weeks ago somewhere on this forum.
Now tell me why you are planning the move?
Do you not like your neighbors?
Steve
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I come before ya, to stand behind ya, tell you something I know nothing about !!!
- nisiprius
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It is meaningless displacement activity. From time to time the shiny "Place Order" buttons on the websites create an irresistible itch to press them, and I try to scratch that itch by using them to do something that has next to no real effect and is "mostly harmless."Stevewc wrote:I don't think the other companies/brokerages are honoring the new lower limits for admiral shares.
I think I read that in a post several weeks ago somewhere on this forum.
Now tell me why you are planning the move?
Do you not like your neighbors?
Steve
Here's my rationalization.
I had moved everything but TIPS to Vanguard, and I now want to create some space to try an oh-so-clever maneuver involving opposite exchanges in my Roth and my taxable account that will have the effect of "moving" some stray TIPS in taxable into the "right" location in tax-advantages.
Even though the amounts involved are small, and it is very unlikely that I will actually try to do tax-loss harvesting, and although I'm morally convinced it won't make $15.68 worth of difference. But it will make me feel better not to see "TIPS in taxable."
(I am actually--hope Fidelity doesn't read this forum--thinking about taking my time using the free TIPS secondary-market trades at Fidelity to tidy up my unruly collection of TIPS--and then move everything to Vanguard. The biggest mental obstacle I have to doing that is the thought that adding VBS accounts, which I finally got rid of, will cause the mailed printed statements I insist on to once again explode to the 32-page-thick monstrosities that I used to get. (They used to use up about eight lines of the statement for each individual TIPS, listing the CUSIP and coupon and so forth for each TIP on a separate line). That would mean running to the mail to get them and hide them before my unreasonably-"green" wife seems them... to say nothing of the time and labor spent eventually shredding them).
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
I too have given some thought to moving money to Fidelity just to take advantage of the TIPS secondary-market trades.
Maybe we should send Vanguard links to these type post so they will wake up and give us the same free trades.
Steve
Maybe we should send Vanguard links to these type post so they will wake up and give us the same free trades.
Steve
Ladies and Gentiles |
Monkeys and Reptiles |
I come before ya, to stand behind ya, tell you something I know nothing about !!!
- nisiprius
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Fidelity says: no, you cannot transfer less than $100K of an Admiral Shares fund "in kind," and it is Vanguard's restriction, not Fidelity's. No biggie. Makes me wonder if Admiral shares of funds with less than a $100,000 balance may be a "loss leader" for Vanguard, though.
I was not able to "convert" Admiral to Investor online, only to "exchange" them... with no idea what the difference is.
But I did encounter something I thought was funny. When I entered the order to exchange VTSAX (Admiral) for VTSMX (Investor), I encountered this screen:
I was not able to "convert" Admiral to Investor online, only to "exchange" them... with no idea what the difference is.
But I did encounter something I thought was funny. When I entered the order to exchange VTSAX (Admiral) for VTSMX (Investor), I encountered this screen:
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
nisiprius,nisiprius wrote:Fidelity says: no, you cannot transfer less than $100K of an Admiral Shares fund "in kind," and it is Vanguard's restriction, not Fidelity's.
Just in the way of an update:
As of about last week, I was told be my Fidelity advisor that Vanguard will not allow transfer of ANY Admiral shares "In Kind" to another brokerage anymore . I had to exchange to investor shares to send them to Fidelity.
I wonder if anyone else has had this experience recently?
“A mile of highway will take you a mile. A mile of runway will take you anywhere!”
Before you pull the trigger, ask Vanguard if an exchange is going to be a taxable event like a sale and a purchase.nisiprius wrote:I was not able to "convert" Admiral to Investor online, only to "exchange" them... with no idea what the difference is.
As the fund company, Vanguard can set a higher minimum or make a share class not available at other brokers. It's plausible this is a Vanguard restriction, not a Fidelity one.
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Re: Can you transfer < $100K Admiral shares in kind?
What you are saying it is possible to transfer a Vanguard mutual fund in-kind to Fidelity?
I always assumed that one would have to convert to the ETF version and then do the transfer.
Does Fidelity allow you to purchase additional Vanguard admiral shares for the mutual funds transferred?
Does the 100k minimum still apply? If so, where you able to convert to investor shares?
Thank you
I always assumed that one would have to convert to the ETF version and then do the transfer.
Does Fidelity allow you to purchase additional Vanguard admiral shares for the mutual funds transferred?
Does the 100k minimum still apply? If so, where you able to convert to investor shares?
Thank you
Re: Can you transfer < $100K Admiral shares in kind?
(hopefully you realize you are responding to a six year old thread)Mike14 wrote:What you are saying it is possible to transfer a Vanguard mutual fund in-kind to Fidelity?
I always assumed that one would have to convert to the ETF version and then do the transfer.
Does Fidelity allow you to purchase additional Vanguard admiral shares for the mutual funds transferred?
Does the 100k minimum still apply? If so, where you able to convert to investor shares?
Thank you
My only reference point was about two years ago. Fidelity could not hold/accept Admiral shares, so as you suggest I had to convert them to ETF shares (while at Vanguard) and then transfer those to Fidelity. VG wasn't very helpful in this process, but we got it done. Note than once converted to ETF shares, only whole shares can be transferred and any fractional shares will be sold and transferred as cash. If you have non-covered shares, make sure you capture any relevant basis info from Vanguard prior to the conversion/transfer.
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
- Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Can you transfer < $100K Admiral shares in kind?
Generally one can transfer any mutual fund that the new custodian allows you to hold. Most Vanguard Investor share funds will transfer. Some custodians can accept Admiral shares and sometimes allow reinvestment, but not new money buys. One should check with the custodian to get the specifics at the time as things can change.
ETFs are simpler in that regard as they will almost always transfer without problem. As I recall, some custodians won't deal in certain thinly-traded ETFs. There can be other restrictions on in-kind transfers, but most of the majors don't have anything like that.
ETFs are simpler in that regard as they will almost always transfer without problem. As I recall, some custodians won't deal in certain thinly-traded ETFs. There can be other restrictions on in-kind transfers, but most of the majors don't have anything like that.
- dodecahedron
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Re: Can you transfer < $100K Admiral shares in kind?
Does the custodian get to keep any portion of the ER of a mutual fund or ETF purely for their trouble as a custodian (as opposed to their work in managing the underlying fund)? Obviously, if you hold individual stocks and bonds at a brokerage, there is no ER charge, so I am guessing the answer might be no since it doesn't seem like any more work to provide custodianship of a fund than an individual security. So then the question become WHY would the new custodian care what specific class of mutual funds a customer is holding there.Earl Lemongrab wrote:Generally one can transfer any mutual fund that the new custodian allows you to hold. Most Vanguard Investor share funds will transfer. Some custodians can accept Admiral shares and sometimes allow reinvestment, but not new money buys. One should check with the custodian to get the specifics at the time as things can change.
In any case, I was able to transfer Admiral shares of several different Vanguard funds in-kind to Schwab back last winter. The total was over $200K (in order to get a bonus) but some of the individual funds had balances less than $100K (though more than $10K). They all remain Admiral class some months later. My intent is to leave the funds there for the convenience of being able to make periodic donations of appreciated shares to my Schwab Charitable Donor Advised Fund (which will sell the shares immediately upon donation without additional cost to me allowing me to donate the funds conveniently to the charities of my choice. General plan is to use the DAF as a conduit and promptly donate to ultimate beneficiaries rather than holding large balances there indefinitely, so basically I would be paying the $100/year minimum DAF fee for all their assistance with granting and recordkeeping and anonymity.)
Re: Can you transfer < $100K Admiral shares in kind?
Don't forget how much simpler it makes things when filing your own tax returns. One or two robust contribution statements from a DAF sure beats a folder full of cancelled checks, credit card statements, etc. to back up individual charitable contributions.dodecahedron wrote: so basically I would be paying the $100/year minimum DAF fee for all their assistance with granting and recordkeeping and anonymity.)
To your point, holding appreciated shares under the same umbrella as your DAF makes contributions very simple (I use Fido in the same manner - their system for designating specific shares works great).
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.