Feels like so little is in my control after the sell off, why not just spend it away?

sharukh · Post by **sharukh** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:16 pm

Hi,

Yesterday we were debating about curtains for house that costs about $7k. Being frugal life long, we just choose to use a cheaper product for updating the house that costs only $2k to save $5k.

Just today only I lost in excess of $100k due to market downturn.

Feels silly to me to have made a compromise yesterday to save $5k

How to process a situation like this?

Age 40 with a SAHM and 2 young kids. Very little job security.
$700k Mortgage at 6%

Thank you

livesoft · Post by **livesoft** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:18 pm

Live and learn is what has worked for me. Everything I bought today closed higher. Everything I sold today closed lower.

rogue_economist · Post by **rogue_economist** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:21 pm

7k for curtains in anything short of a legitimate mansion is absurd. I've bought cars for that kind of money. This is entirely independent of the market.

If you have little job security then you need to be batening down the hatches asap. Forget what the market is doing, tax loss harvest if you can and stack cash.

WeakOldGuy · Post by **WeakOldGuy** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:30 pm

sharukh wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:16 pm Yesterday we were debating about curtains for house that costs about $7k. Being frugal life long, we just choose to use a cheaper product for updating the house that costs only $2k to save $5k.

Just today only I lost in excess of $100k due to market downturn.
Feels silly to me to have made a compromise yesterday to save $5k

How to process a situation like this?

Age 40 with a SAHM and 2 young kids. Very little job security.
$700k Mortgage at 6%

Meh... Today my portfolio value dropped $40k. Just got back from the grocery store where I made all kinds of choices that saved me 10 cents here, or 20 cents there. My wife laughed at it, but I reminded her that since we never had high incomes, those small spending decisions have allowed us to retire with $2.3M in our investment portfolio and a net worth of just over $6M.

The markets will do what they do. That is why we think about asset allocation. There is not a lot we can control, but spending is one where we do have control.

MorgansRun · Post by **MorgansRun** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:31 pm

You could put the $5k you saved into VTI for the long term.

Mullins · Post by **Mullins** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:32 pm

sharukh wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:16 pm Feels silly to me to have made a compromise yesterday to save $5k

You made a decision on allocating $5k, deciding that curtains were not where your $5k was better spent. You probably chose well.

The feeling that you deny yourself only to see your money disappear in the market or going to pay for life's unforeseen troubles and other emergency expenses... the way I've dealt with that is every now and then I will splurge on something worth splurging on.

J295 · Post by **J295** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:33 pm

$5,000,000 X 2% =$100,000

And that’s only equities. BND up 0.47% today.

To answer your question “why not spend it anyway?”
Answer: SAHM and two young kids.

raveon · Post by **raveon** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:34 pm

OP is probably invested primarily in his company's tech stock (mag7).

gotoparks · Post by **gotoparks** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:39 pm

Surprised no one has said anything about tax loss harvesting if you have some in a taxable account.

exodusing · Post by **exodusing** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:40 pm

J295 wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:33 pm $5,000,000 X 2% =$100,000

And that’s only equities. BND up 0.47% today.

To answer your question “why not spend it anyway?”

2%? VT (total world stock) was down 2.5% and VTI (total US stock) was down 2.7%.

grap0013 · Post by **grap0013** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:40 pm

sharukh wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:16 pm
Yesterday we were debating about curtains for house that costs about $7k. Being frugal life long, we just choose to use a cheaper product for updating the house that costs only $2k to save $5k.

Just today only I lost in excess of $100k due to market downturn.

Feels silly to me to have made a compromise yesterday to save $5k

How to process a situation like this?

How big is your portfolio? 4 to 5 million? I suggest practicing gratitude. It puts things into perspective. Also, you almost have enough that it sounds like you can use those curtains as a back up if there's another toilet paper shortage. Sounds like you've either won the game or are very close.

er999 · Post by **er999** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:41 pm

sharukh wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:16 pm
Just today only I lost in excess of $100k due to market downturn.

If you lost $100k today that means, since VOO was down 2.64%, qqq down 3.88%, and VXUS down 2.27% you have at least a 2.6 million portfolio, possibly in the 3.5 million range.

You can’t have everything you want at that level of wealth but if you really want you can pay an extra $2k for curtains you can.

Perhaps tomorrow (or next week) you’ll gain $50k plus though

exodusing · Post by **exodusing** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:42 pm

sharukh wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:16 pm Hi,

You never have control over what the market does. All you can do is invest and hope for the best. Markets go up, markets go down, markets ...

$5k is $5k, whatever the market does.

rockstar · Post by **rockstar** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:43 pm

I’d buy stuff likely to go up in price with the tariffs sooner than later. I’d prioritize China related items. There isn’t much you can do produce wise.

bombcar · Post by **bombcar** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:44 pm

This is a real problem caused by your savings being denominated in the same dollars you are spending now, and will spend later.

But look at it this way - did you decrease spending when your savings skyrocketed over the last 4 years?

So why would you increase it when it goes down?

If anything, you just learned a $100k lesson about not checking you balances (I had no idea the market had gone down until this post) and perhaps about the beauty of BND.

But if a 2% market drawdown is $100k you may want to revisit your asset allocation, make sure you're not too heavily weighted toward one company's stock, and also consider how much you "truly need" - perhaps you could rearrange finances to make things feel more stable.

It's hard, Mr Market always whispering in your ear, and Mr Zillow updating you to the second. Best to leave them behind and focus on the curtains.

MathWizard · Post by **MathWizard** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:44 pm

raveon wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:34 pm OP is probably invested primarily in his company's tech stock (mag7).

Tesla is down 15.43% in one day. Makes the 1.5% drop in my portfolio look small.

J295 · Post by **J295** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:45 pm

exodusing wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:40 pm
J295 wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:33 pm $5,000,000 X 2% =$100,000

And that’s only equities. BND up 0.47% today.

To answer your question “why not spend it anyway?”
2%? VT (total world stock) was down 2.5% and VTI (total US stock) was down 2.7%.

You’re right. My mistake. I checked one time earlier today and didn’t circle back.

So to lose $100,000 on a 2.7% drop would have an equity portfolio of around $3.7M.

AlohaBill · Post by **AlohaBill** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:47 pm

What gets me is that sell off is man made .

Harmanic · Post by **Harmanic** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:47 pm

sharukh wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:16 pm Hi,

Yesterday we were debating about curtains for house that costs about $7k. Being frugal life long, we just choose to use a cheaper product for updating the house that costs only $2k to save $5k.

Given the $100,000 single day loss, there are two likely possibilities. Either your portfolio is large enough that you could spend $7,000 on curtains, but are too frugal to admit it. OR, your portfolio is way too concentrated in tech stocks.

Anyway, Ramit Sethi addresses exactly these kinds of issues in his podcast. Basically, he would ask you if expensive curtains are important to live your "rich life." It is similar to another podcast that has a tag line, "you can afford anything, but you can't afford everything."

AlohaBill · Post by **AlohaBill** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:47 pm

Yikes

bevodive · Post by **bevodive** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:51 pm

As long as you have a decent emergency fund and are saving 25% of your income for retirement, then I say buy the $7k curtains. Life is short, enjoy it while you can.

Cletus Davenport · Post by **Cletus Davenport** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:53 pm

You should be spending your money on whatever way brings you the most joy.

There is nothing g wrong with buying expensive curtains if they would bring you concentrate joy.

A lot of other folks would rather buy stocks with that money, and save so that they can buy other better stuff later.

If you read the forums long enough, you’ll realize a lot of people never actually do that other part, enjoy their money later.

twofourtheroad · Post by **twofourtheroad** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:54 pm

You need that money to make money. If you sell to buy curtains, that money is gone. Youre down a 100K today, remember you havent lost anything. Btw, I was down $70,000 with a portfolio of around $3 mil. So you have sizable investments. We are grateful we have the funds invested that can loose $100k and $70k. In all my years I have yet to see the market not rebound.

1moreyr · Post by **1moreyr** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:10 pm

I buy things that I value. I am frugal as heck but if I see the value in it for the price amounts don't matter

$7000 for curtains? Sheesh

add to that a risky job with kids? not me.....

milktoast · Post by **milktoast** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:12 pm

Basic math. $100,000 loss on VTI down 2.7% = $3,703,703 portfolio. So you were debating whether to spend 0.054% of your portfolio or 0.189%.

And if you were debating that today you would be debating based on $3,603,703 which means you would be debating 0.055% of your portfolio or 0.194%.

Seems like the market movement is not greatly altering the situation, is it? Either way you are trying to decide what percentage of your portfolio on curtains and the percentages in question are similar.

cchrissyy · Post by **cchrissyy** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:15 pm

I wasn't sure if this is a case where you have plenty or is this a case where you are invested too risky for your situation, so i found your January thread saying you have $4 million dollars invested in a typical 3-fund and are asking if you can retire already. ok! so my actionable advice is don't log in to watch the swings. evaluate your spending and savings habits, and buy whatever curtains are worth it to you.

Doctor Rhythm · Post by **Doctor Rhythm** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:18 pm

No offense intended to OP, but the question posed in the title is what an indigent person with little hope to improve their lot might ask, not someone who can spend $7000 to upgrade curtains.

Wannaretireearly · Post by **Wannaretireearly** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:27 pm

Tough day. Good lesson in diversification for some.
OP can afford the curtains. Stay the course and resiliency are key tenants of a BH portfolio.

I was asked by an advisor if I was ok with equity portfolio dropping a significant amount given my 70/30 AA. My answer, yes I’d hope to buy more equities.

Stay cool & get blackout curtains

quantAndHold · Post by **quantAndHold** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:29 pm

A number of people in this thread have not priced window coverings lately.

Nicolas · Post by **Nicolas** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:51 pm

livesoft wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:18 pm Live and learn is what has worked for me. Everything I bought today closed higher. Everything I sold today closed lower.

What’s it like to never be wrong?

secondopinion · Post by **secondopinion** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:53 pm

I worry about paying $3 more a month on a phone plan and yet I have lost thousands. There is some irony, but there is also risk. However, if one puts investing into a long-term perspective, this will hardly change my sustainable withdrawal rate.

livesoft · Post by **livesoft** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:56 pm

Nicolas wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:51 pm
livesoft wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:18 pm Live and learn is what has worked for me. Everything I bought today closed higher. Everything I sold today closed lower.
What’s it like to never be wrong?

It is like this:
viewtopic.php?p=1939668

Ccthealias · Post by **Ccthealias** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:57 pm

sharukh wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:16 pm Hi,

Yesterday we were debating about curtains for house that costs about $7k. Being frugal life long, we just choose to use a cheaper product for updating the house that costs only $2k to save $5k.

Just today only I lost in excess of $100k due to market downturn.

Feels silly to me to have made a compromise yesterday to save $5k

How to process a situation like this?

Age 40 with a SAHM and 2 young kids. Very little job security.
$700k Mortgage at 6%

Thank you

Well since you saved 5k, you can put the 5k in the market when it dropped. Certainly it will yield better returns than you would if you spent the extra 5k on the curtains.

Franklin · Post by **Franklin** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:07 pm

Hi OP. I'm in your camp. Today I lost a similar amount of $ just as DW and I committed to the curtains! I may hate looking at them later on if the current market downfall continues but sooner or later it will come back. Life is too short to deny yourself with $4MM in the bank already. Enjoy the curtains. Here to hoping those curtains and your portfolio outlive your needs!!

UNSpacy · Post by **UNSpacy** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:10 pm

OP, this kind of measurement of 'loss' and 'gain' has never made sense to me.

From the point in time you buy a share, what you hold is the share. Nothing more, nothing less. All the noise from the market is telling you is that someone somewhere sold an identical share for $X today (and someone else was willing to buy it for that price). This doesn't tell you what the price will be tomorrow, let alone when you actually need to sell the share (the only figure that has any actual impact on your life).

Why should this matter to you / your choice of curtains?

CoAndy · Post by **CoAndy** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:13 pm

sharukh wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:16 pm Hi,

Yesterday we were debating about curtains for house that costs about $7k. Being frugal life long, we just choose to use a cheaper product for updating the house that costs only $2k to save $5k.

Just today only I lost in excess of $100k due to market downturn.

Feels silly to me to have made a compromise yesterday to save $5k

How to process a situation like this?

Age 40 with a SAHM and 2 young kids. Very little job security.
$700k Mortgage at 6%

Thank you

You didn't lose anything. The value of your holdings went down. They will go back up.

svho · Post by **svho** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:30 pm

sharukh wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:16 pm Hi,

Yesterday we were debating about curtains for house that costs about $7k. Being frugal life long, we just choose to use a cheaper product for updating the house that costs only $2k to save $5k.

Just today only I lost in excess of $100k due to market downturn.

Feels silly to me to have made a compromise yesterday to save $5k

How to process a situation like this?

Age 40 with a SAHM and 2 young kids. Very little job security.
$700k Mortgage at 6%

Thank you

I am feeling the same. I might just go and splurge on another sports car. Why not spend it instead of letting some bastards drain the account.

CletusCaddy · Post by **CletusCaddy** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:36 pm

The way to process it is not to be such a miser.

GrumpyFarmer · Post by **GrumpyFarmer** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:42 pm

I used my child hood bed sheets as curtains for the place I rented after college. I did not have any curtains in college, so that was a major upgrade. When I got married those curtains were the first things to go when wifee moved in…sure glad I did not spend money on curtains as an original purchase!

One can only control what they spend and what they save.

mhc · Post by **mhc** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:46 pm

It feels like so little is in your control because so little is in your control. It does not matter which way the market goes. So little is in your control. It is better to realize this sooner rather than later.

Wanderingwheelz · Post by **Wanderingwheelz** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:50 pm

rogue_economist wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:21 pm 7k for curtains in anything short of a legitimate mansion is absurd. I've bought cars for that kind of money. This is entirely independent of the market.

If you have little job security then you need to be batening down the hatches asap. Forget what the market is doing, tax loss harvest if you can and stack cash.

OP was down a hundred grand in a day. Going from that and what you wrote, OP is likely much wealthier than you.

Hacksawdave · Post by **Hacksawdave** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:51 pm

sharukh wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:16 pm Yesterday we were debating about curtains for house that costs about $7k. Being frugal life long, we just choose to use a cheaper product for updating the house that costs only $2k to save $5k.

Just today only I lost in excess of $100k due to market downturn.

Feels silly to me to have made a compromise yesterday to save $5k

How to process a situation like this?

Age 40 with a SAHM and 2 young kids. Very little job security.
$700k Mortgage at 6%

Thank you

How did you stay in control and get through the 2022-23 bear market of less than 2 years ago? How long have these drapes been ‘on the list?’

I am in year six of early retirement. No job, no pension, no social security, no retirement health plan until Medicare, everything is on my investment dime. I have no influence on markets but can control my own destiny by maintaining the cashflow and not doing anything irrational.

WeakOldGuy · Post by **WeakOldGuy** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:59 pm

1moreyr wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:10 pm I buy things that I value. I am frugal as heck but if I see the value in it for the price amounts don't matter

Excellent point. As I pulled into the driveway from the grocery store (where I saved $10 and change by shopping bargains) I got a call from the boatyard that doing some work on my boat. I approved some work that will end up being about 10 boat-bucks ($10,000). I am frugal but willing to spend on the things that are truly important to me.

I think the key is being able to identify the things that are important, those things that reflect your personal values, beliefs, and priorities. Additionally, those expenses that truly bring joy as opposed to simply a temporary endorphin hit.

gavinsiu · Post by **gavinsiu** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 7:20 pm

sharukh wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 4:16 pm Hi,

Yesterday we were debating about curtains for house that costs about $7k. Being frugal life long, we just choose to use a cheaper product for updating the house that costs only $2k to save $5k.

Just today only I lost in excess of $100k due to market downturn.

Feels silly to me to have made a compromise yesterday to save $5k

How to process a situation like this?

Age 40 with a SAHM and 2 young kids. Very little job security.
$700k Mortgage at 6%

Thank you

What you need to learn to do is to divorce your sense of wealth with your retirement fund. You need to concentrate on contributing and keeping the portfolio compounding. There is a degree of luck involved. The money you gain is offset by the loss later and vice versa. If you get into a habit of spending more if your portfolio is higher, you will end up needing more money and moving your goal post further. The worse thing you can do is commit financial nihilism and spend when you don't have the funds. You have a family can't afford to slack off. You don't want to burden your kids with supporting you later in life.

As your portfolio grow, the magnitude of gain and loss will be great even though precentage-wise it's nothing.

sharukh · Post by **sharukh** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 7:25 pm

Hacksawdave wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:51 pm How did you stay in control and get through the 2022-23 bear market of less than 2 years ago? How long have these drapes been ‘on the list?’

In 2021 when the market was peaking, I felt a little wealthy and bought a car.
In 2025 when the market was peaking again, same feeling bought a house.

During down years, I restrict any discretionary spendings and will try not to stretch out and hope to stay solvent. During up years like 2021, 2025 I will splurge.
Just bought a house, so the drapes were on list for just few weeks.

sharukh · Post by **sharukh** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 7:26 pm

WeakOldGuy wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:59 pm
1moreyr wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 5:10 pm I buy things that I value. I am frugal as heck but if I see the value in it for the price amounts don't matter
Excellent point. As I pulled into the driveway from the grocery store (where I saved $10 and change by shopping bargains) I got a call from the boatyard that doing some work on my boat. I approved some work that will end up being about 10 boat-bucks ($10,000). I am frugal but willing to spend on the things that are truly important to me.

I think the key is being able to identify the things that are important, those things that reflect your personal values, beliefs, and priorities. Additionally, those expenses that truly bring joy as opposed to simply a temporary endorphin hit.

Got it. Will work on this. Thank you.

mdavis6890 · Post by **mdavis6890** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 7:30 pm

You can easily afford the fancy curtains, and as you just pointed out, it impacts your financial picture very little. And the longer you wait, the less time you have to enjoy them.

Of course you can’t take this logic too far - there do have to be limits. But given your post I think you’re far from at risk from overspending.

I’d loosen up, and look for opportunities to live your best life. That doesn’t have to be expensive, but the point is not to let money hold you back, since you have plenty.

sharukh · Post by **sharukh** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 7:31 pm

CletusCaddy wrote: Mon Mar 10, 2025 6:36 pm The way to process it is not to be such a miser.

I've been working on being more open with my finances. This year, I've significantly increased my monthly expenses by purchasing a house, effectively doubling them.

Old habits can be difficult to break, but I'm doing my best to change

delbcavista · Post by **delbcavista** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 7:58 pm

I'd go to hawaii instead of paying that for curtains

investuntilimrich · Post by **investuntilimrich** » Mon Mar 10, 2025 8:05 pm

You really don't "lose" money or "make" money unless you're actually selling what you're holding. Regardless of that, 7k curtains? No thanks. Unless you're living in one of those cliff walk mansions this seems like an unusual expense. If you simply hold a good investment it will likely be worth much more in five or ten years (at least in the number of dollars). Almost everything makes more sense if you zoom your view out 5-10 years and if you're horizon is less than that risky investments don't really make sense.