ACAT fraud with a twist - Vanguard

[ww340]

I have searched ACAT fraud on this forum, and it appears there is a great deal of skepticism that people are actually victims of this fraud and the belief that real people do not really lose money in this form of fraud.

I have been a poster here since 2014. I don't post a lot, but enough that you should be able to identify me as a real person on this forum.

I discovered that our taxable account at Vanguard had been slowly pilfered of approximately $100,000.00 in stocks transferred by ACATS to 2 different brokerage accounts that were not mine over a period of time.

These stock transfers were taken out of our account each time we received a dividend beginning in May 2024. We hold a substantial amount of Vanguard Tax-managed Balance Fund. In October I compared our account balance to that of the end of the year and was surprised to find that our Vanguard Tax managed Balance fund was way down in value.

It actually took a lot of digging on my part to finally figure out what was going on in that account. Every few months 750 shares of that fund were transferred to either Fidelity or Interactive Brokers. Transfers were made 3 times before I realized it was happening. I contacted Vanguard as soon as I discovered it and they immediately locked down my account.

We had no emails or text messages letting us know this was happening. My husband and I both get text and emails regarding any activity normally, but we got nothing about these transfers. We have had 2 factor identification active on our accounts for at least a couple of years. None of that mattered. I was told by Vanguard that ACATS would not trigger any of that as the withdraw came from another broker that verified to them that it was me doing the withdrawl.

We got the October transfer returned to us in November. I was told we might not get the May and July transfers back because they were done over 60 days before I discovered them. My account was kept locked up for several months by the fraud team. We finally did get the other 1500 shares returned in January.

So, we ultimately did not lose money on this, however, had this gone on another quarter or two, I am not sure we would have been made whole.

I know several members of this forum say they only look at their accounts once a year or less. ACATS fraud is easier to spot when they take it all, but the slow take away did escape me even though I look at our accounts pretty regularly. I obviously am not that savvy, but if the 60 day rule is really a thing, we all need to be more vigilant.

We obviously had identity theft which I am fighting on several fronts. Our local police and state police have been involved and they have contacted the FBI due to the amounts involved. Several brokerage accounts have been opened in our names, but only one company contacted us to verify the account with us - that was Schwab. Fidelity informed me that there are several bank accounts open in our names as well. The police investigation confirmed this was done by someone not associated with us or close to us. They believe it involves international fraud, or at least the money ends up leaving this country for another country.

No one has been able to tell me how to locate the other accounts. They don't show up on our credit reports. I have locked down our credit and put fraud alerts with the credit companies and our banks and credit cards and our other investment companies.

I still feel like we are sitting ducks.

[anon_investor]

That is terrible. Glad you got your shares back.

I have a spreadsheet I update every month. I take care to confirm all dividends are paid. I had a situation a few years ago where my dividends weren't paid in my old employer PayFlex HSA, and it took a whole month to get that sorted out. Due to that experience, I make sure to check all my share counts for my MFs/ETFs/stocks each month.

[nalor511]

Vanguard is particularly bad because there's no notification on outbound ACATs. Fidelity and Schwab both notify. Glad you were made whole

[rkhusky]

The requesting brokerage is responsible, so Fidelity and IB are on the hook for the losses (or their insurance company).

This could also be the Achilles heel of overly complex portfolios and/or lots of transactions. Something like this can slip through. I check my accounts monthly.

[RetiredAL]

Vanguard is particularly bad because there's no notification on outbound ACATs. Fidelity and Schwab both notify. Glad you were made whole

Wells Fargo does not notify of outbound ACATS. This was Wells Trade Estate Account to Schwab Estate account.

While not ACATS, Schwab is has been very good at notifying whenever I transfer from my Schwab Account to our Grand's UTMA Accounts, and when I transferred from a Schwab Estate Account (I was Trustee) to to my Sister's Schwab account. However, when I did an Estate Distribution to my Schwab Account, as the companion what went to my Sister, there was no specific notifications, which I assume is because my logon was linked to both accounts.

[RetiredAL]

I have searched ACAT fraud on this forum, and it appears there is a great deal of skepticism that people are actually victims of this fraud and the belief that real people do not really lose money in this form of fraud.

Thank you for the nice concise report. Slow pilfering can be hard to detect. You story behooves us to monthly scan history for outgoing transactions.

Several of the other reports were suspect to me because they were essentially dump and run posts. Those dump-n-runs seem to be commonly just for bad-mouthing. Others seem valid. ACATS Fraud is a real thing, tho luckily fairly rare.

[TdF fan]

Fidelity informed me that there are several bank accounts open in our names as well.
...
No one has been able to tell me how to locate the other accounts. They don't show up on our credit reports. I have locked down our credit and put fraud alerts with the credit companies and our banks and credit cards and our other investment companies.

I still feel like we are sitting ducks.

Have you tried getting a report from ChexSystems and/or Early Warning Services? More likely to find bank information there rather than in credit reports.

[NewRain]

We had no emails or text messages letting us know this was happening…

Out of curiosity, it sounds like you probably did not receive any USPS mail notification of these ACAT transfers. I remember a USPS letter (a few weeks later) being the only notification I received from Vanguard when I did an ACAT to Fidelity.

Does Vanguard not send mail notifications for these smaller transfers? Do you think your USPS mail was somehow compromised?

[typical.investor]

I have searched ACAT fraud on this forum, and it appears there is a great deal of skepticism that people are actually victims of this fraud and the belief that real people do not really lose money in this form of fraud.

Well, you didn't lose any did you? But yes, I think accounts need to be monitored monthly. Not only for the risk from an unnoticed ACATs transfer, but in general broker protection agreements and Regulation E require timely notification. Glad you were made whole!

We obviously had identity theft which I am fighting on several fronts. Our local police and state police have been involved and they have contacted the FBI due to the amounts involved. Several brokerage accounts have been opened in our names, but only one company contacted us to verify the account with us - that was Schwab. Fidelity informed me that there are several bank accounts open in our names as well. The police investigation confirmed this was done by someone not associated with us or close to us. They believe it involves international fraud, or at least the money ends up leaving this country for another country.

It's strange that Vanguard didn't notify you. There obviously isn't a requirement. If you could, please write you House and Senate representatives about your experience and ask them to require that transferring firms notify by mail that an ACATs transfer was completed.

It should be an easy win for some politician to declare they are protecting retirement accounts in this way and would you think look good in their newsletter 'I sponsored XZY bill protecting Retirement and other investment accounts by requiring notification when assets are transferred out, and am happy to say it was passed." or some such.

[PersonalFinanceJam]

Very sorry this happened to you but glad it seems you've been made whole. Any indication how the perpetrators were able to get your account numbers and holding information at Vanguard? While basically everyone's personal information including SSN is floating out there in the ether, specific account information is harder to come by. Fidelity generally requires a recent statement to be provided to initiate an ACAT transfer. Those can always be faked so probably not a great deterrent but at least still a requirement.

It's crazy to me that ACAT much like ACH is viewed as a closed system so harder to commit fraud and easier to reverse. Therefore we don't need better safeguards on these types of transfers. We all have to wait until the cost of dealing with the fraud becomes greater than implementing a better system before something will be done.

[baconavocado]

I reconcile all my bank and investment accounts every month.

[beyou]

I think people hit the nail on the head, one must login and check their accounts regularly.
Not that hard to list out recent transactions and take a quick look if you have a simple portfolio with few transactions.
For a day trader or those who use their brokerage as a bank account, this could be more difficult to review and catch exceptional transactions.
Another reason I keep banking separate from brokerage, at least separate accts (could be same institution but not same account).

Questions :

1) Does Vanguard allow you to lock out ACATS via a written or verbal request ?
I have no plans for ACAT anytime soon, would ask them to lock if I could.

2) I wonder if your broker does not reimburse you, do you have a good case against the receiving broker.
They are opening an account in your name clearly not fully vetting that it's really you.
No matter what I change at Vanguard, they send me paper mail to my home address.
An ID fraudster is not likely coming to my mailbox to intercept mail, from Russia or China.
So if someone opened an account in your name at Fidelity and IBKR as stated, why didn't Fidelity and IBKR send a confirmation to your home address ? And how would the ID fraudster give them a different address if so, don't they verify the address they are given against public records ? Seems there is some negligence on the part of the receiving broker and maybe you can sue them and recover what they negligently helped to steal ? I realize for many the legal costs could be an issue, but wondering if there is a good case.

[baconavocado]

Seems odd that they would only transfer a few shares rather than empty, or nearly empty, your account.

[Cletus Davenport]

I reconcile all my bank and investment accounts every month.

Me too.

I get lots of notifications from vanguard as well. Every time I do anything, I get at least one notification from them. My regularly scheduled withdrawals to the bank accounts included.

If these other types of things don’t trigger a notification, that’s pretty bad.

[typical.investor]

.

A2) I wonder if your broker does not reimburse you, do you have a good case against the receiving broker.
They are opening an account in your name clearly not fully vetting that it's really you.
No matter what I change at Vanguard, they send me paper mail to my home address.
An ID fraudster is not likely coming to my mailbox to intercept mail, from Russia or China.
So if someone opened an account in your name at Fidelity and IBKR as stated, why didn't Fidelity and IBKR send a confirmation to your home address ? And how would the ID fraudster give them a different address if so, don't they verify the address they are given against public records ? Seems there is some negligence on the part of the receiving broker and maybe you can sue them and recover what they negligently helped to steal ? I realize for many the legal costs could be an issue, but wondering if there is a good case.

Per the ACAT agreement, it is the receiving firm who has the responsibility for fraudulent transfers.

This is likely why Schwab reached out to confirm so they they could avoid liability.

In any case, I don’t know how long the receiving firm is liable and would assume maybe that it is similar to other transactions and perhaps within 60 days of statement.

[DarkNyte]

Fidelity has a money transfer lockdown feature. It allows money into accounts like normal, but won't allow any money out unless you manually unlock the account in the security center.

I also manually reconcile all of my brokerage/retirement accounts monthly, so if there is fraud it's detected within 30 days.

[Svensk Anga]

Any indication how the perpetrators were able to get your account numbers and holding information at Vanguard?

Maybe it was from a paper statement intercepted from the mail. They would get holding info and I guess account numbers. (Do these still appear on statements? I haven’t received a paper brokerage statement in a long time.). The perp could have intercepted any notification letter from VG as well.

[stay.the.course]

You should consider setting up an enhanced verbal password with vanguard, an added layer above and beyond 2 factor authentication.

[crystalbank]

That's really sneaky to siphon out shares right around dividend time. Were you a victim of Identity theft before? In any case I'd also get in touch with Fidelity and Schwab about this. Glad you were made whole though.

[HomeStretch]

Glad to hear you were made whole. Checking accounts regularly is important as you have noted.

What is odd is the siphoning of dividends only. I wonder how the thieves knew exactly how much to take and when. I am also surprised they did not empty your account in a one and done.

[ClevrChico]

What is the best way to monitor for this? Does the ACAT transfer appear in transaction history?

[HueyLD]

What is the best way to monitor for this? Does the ACAT transfer appear in transaction history?

Yes, they do. They are labeled as “Transfer (outgoing)” under Transaction Type.

In other words, one should monitor account activities regularly.

[bberris]

Seems odd that they would only transfer a few shares rather than empty, or nearly empty, your account.

The strategy was to stay under the radar. They are moving the shares somewhere else, hoping that the kiting will break the chain of retrieving the shares. Eventually a withdrawal is made in cash somewhere in the world. This fraud requires some time before it is realized in order to succeed.

[grok87]

What is the best way to monitor for this? Does the ACAT transfer appear in transaction history?

Yes, they do. They are labeled as “Transfer (outgoing)” under Transaction Type.

In other words, one should monitor account activities regularly.

thanks

[VanGar+Goyle]

I discovered that our taxable account at Vanguard had been slowly pilfered of approximately $100,000.00 in stocks transferred by ACATS to 2 different brokerage accounts that were not mine over a period of time.

These stock transfers were taken out of our account each time we received a dividend beginning in May 2024. We hold a substantial amount of Vanguard Tax-managed Balance Fund. In October I compared our account balance to that of the end of the year and was surprised to find that our Vanguard Tax managed Balance fund was way down in value.

It actually took a lot of digging on my part to finally figure out what was going on in that account. Every few months 750 shares of that fund were transferred to either Fidelity or Interactive Brokers. Transfers were made 3 times before I realized it was happening. I contacted Vanguard as soon as I discovered it and they immediately locked down my account.

This may be why it is important to check your statements carefully. My October Vanguard statement mentions that

We've recently made changes to our statements.
You may notice that some information previously included no longer appears on your statement.

One is never completely sure what is missing, but it is now harder to compare initial shares with final shares.
Hopefully the transaction details helped you find the fraud.

[VanGar+Goyle]

I think people hit the nail on the head, one must login and check their accounts regularly.

To beat a dead horse, if you get complete paper statements, you do not have to login, and should find the problem with 45 days,
so beat a 60 day window.

"Love flies out the door when money comes innuendo." - Marx

[prd1982]

I think people hit the nail on the head, one must login and check their accounts regularly.

To beat a dead horse, if you get complete paper statements, you do not have to login, and should find the problem with 45 days,
so beat a 60 day window.

"Love flies out the door when money comes innuendo." - Marx

However, similar to online, you must open the envelope and read the document.

[rkhusky]

You should consider setting up an enhanced verbal password with vanguard, an added layer above and beyond 2 factor authentication.

That wouldn’t help with ACATS transfers. Your username and password and 2FA aren’t required. Under the law, Vanguard cannot hold up the transfer unless they suspect fraud. And the receiving brokerage is responsible for making sure the receiving account is legitimate. A regular pattern of withdrawals that is never questioned looks very legitimate.

[MtnTravel]

To beat a dead horse, if you get complete paper statements, you do not have to login, and should find the problem with 45 days,
so beat a 60 day window.

Paper statements come with their own risk. It has your account number, full names of the account holders, and address. Mail gets mis-delivered and stolen, so it's safer to get e-statements and just login to your accounts one time a month. It's not that difficult, and is another reason it's good to simplify and consolidate accounts. Much easier to spot issues quickly.

Vanguard could benefit from better ACATS security. I remember getting a paper letter when I last ACATS'ed money out. But no e-mail or text notification, which is a major oversight. Fidelity has the best system with Lockdown, and more brokerages could benefit by having something similar.

[rkhusky]

To beat a dead horse, if you get complete paper statements, you do not have to login, and should find the problem with 45 days,
so beat a 60 day window.

"Love flies out the door when money comes innuendo." - Marx

However, similar to online, you must open the envelope and read the document.

+1
Several people have said that they get paper notifications from Vanguard for ACATS transfers. OP must not have read the several that were sent.

[VanGar+Goyle]

To beat a dead horse, if you get complete paper statements, you do not have to login, and should find the problem with 45 days,
so beat a 60 day window.

"Love flies out the door when money comes innuendo." - Marx

However, similar to online, you must open the envelope and read the document.

This seems against the spirit of Bogleheads, but you do not get to tell my letter opener what to do.
I pay him to open my envelopes and read documents to me, I just listen and understand - envelopes were opened.

There is a Carnac the Magnificant reference here,
if I can find the right YouTube link. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carnac_the_Magnificent

[beyou]

I think people hit the nail on the head, one must login and check their accounts regularly.

To beat a dead horse, if you get complete paper statements, you do not have to login, and should find the problem with 45 days,
so beat a 60 day window.

"Love flies out the door when money comes innuendo." - Marx

Paper statements make it easier to have your acct info stolen which makes it easier to perform ACAT fraud. I regularly have my mail incorrectly delivered (get mail meant for neighbors all the time, and I assume some of mine to them).

I do not get paper and have no plans to do so.

[Rocinante Rider]

Can anyone who has done an ACATS transfer please confirm the information that a fraudster would need to have and the procedure they would need to follow? I assume:

1. The first step would be to open a new, spoofed-identity account at the receiving brokerage. A fraudster could probably do this with little more than the victim's name and SS#, which is information that has been repeatedly leaked on all of us. So this step should be easy.

2. The fraudster would next have to provide the receiving brokerage with information on the account being transferred. I assume that at a minimum the fraudster would need to provide the account numbers for the accounts being transferred. Is a copy of a recent statement on the account to be transferred also required by the receiving brokerage?

Unless my understanding of the ACATS transfer procedure is mistaken, step #2 above seems to be the most challenging for fraudsters. They would need either to intercept an account statement sent in the mail or to hack into the existing account and download an account statement. Correct?

Is there any requirement and mechanism to ensure that the sending and receiving accounts have the same mailing or email address?

[PersonalFinanceJam]

Any indication how the perpetrators were able to get your account numbers and holding information at Vanguard?

Maybe it was from a paper statement intercepted from the mail. They would get holding info and I guess account numbers. (Do these still appear on statements? I haven’t received a paper brokerage statement in a long time.). The perp could have intercepted any notification letter from VG as well.

Indeed, but I was hoping to hear from the OP if they even get paper statements.

[Harry Livermore]

Nothing to add, just a comment. Financial crime needs to be taken way more seriously than it is.
Cheers

ETA: staying on-topic

[chinchin]

Is a copy of a recent statement on the account to be transferred also required by the receiving brokerage?

Unless my understanding of the ACATS transfer procedure is mistaken, step #2 above seems to be the most challenging for fraudsters. They would need either to intercept an account statement sent in the mail or to hack into the existing account and download an account statement. Correct?

No. It's not required. However it can help the receiving brokerage make sure everything gets transferred over properly.

[rkhusky]

1. The first step would be to open a new, spoofed-identity account at the receiving brokerage. A fraudster could probably do this with little more than the victim's name and SS#, which is information that has been repeatedly leaked on all of us. So this step should be easy.

Since the receiving brokerage is on the hook for ACATS fraud, I would think that they would double-check the information on the account before agreeing to do ACATS, especially if they are lax when first opening the account.

[Rocinante Rider]

Is a copy of a recent statement on the account to be transferred also required by the receiving brokerage?

Unless my understanding of the ACATS transfer procedure is mistaken, step #2 above seems to be the most challenging for fraudsters. They would need either to intercept an account statement sent in the mail or to hack into the existing account and download an account statement. Correct?

No. It's not required. However it can help the receiving brokerage make sure everything gets transferred over properly.

But at least the account number is needed? This would still seem to require either intercepting paper mail or hacking into the account to get that information.

[arcane]

I checked my Vanguard account alert settings.

Do you have this notification enabled? If so, did you ask Vanguard why there is NO email in this case?

[lazynovice]

Can anyone who has done an ACATS transfer please confirm the information that a fraudster would need to have and the procedure they would need to follow? I assume:

1. The first step would be to open a new, spoofed-identity account at the receiving brokerage. A fraudster could probably do this with little more than the victim's name and SS#, which is information that has been repeatedly leaked on all of us. So this step should be easy.

2. The fraudster would next have to provide the receiving brokerage with information on the account being transferred. I assume that at a minimum the fraudster would need to provide the account numbers for the accounts being transferred. Is a copy of a recent statement on the account to be transferred also required by the receiving brokerage?

Unless my understanding of the ACATS transfer procedure is mistaken, step #2 above seems to be the most challenging for fraudsters. They would need either to intercept an account statement sent in the mail or to hack into the existing account and download an account statement. Correct?

Is there any requirement and mechanism to ensure that the sending and receiving accounts have the same mailing or email address?

We recently opened a new brokerage account. We were required to upload our driver's licenses as part of step 1. And this particular transfer- which was a partial account transfer- did not require a statement to be uploaded before it was initiated.

But then our transfer was rejected by the outgoing brokerage because they didn't think we had the account titled correctly. When I called in to the new brokerage, I was then asked to upload a statement.

We set up a living trust last year and opening new accounts and moving money into them requires that we submit trust documents to the new brokerage. It does seem like an extra layer of security we had not counted on or hassle depending on your mood.

[prd1982]

I checked my Vanguard account alert settings.

Do you have this notification enabled? If so, did you ask Vanguard why there is NO email in this case?

Does this notification include ACAT transfers, or just pulling money from the account to your bank, transfers from IRA to taxable, etc.

[arcane]

Does this notification include ACAT transfers, or just pulling money from the account to your bank, transfers from IRA to taxable, etc.

I don't know. If not, maybe Vanguard should add one. In this case, Fidelity's account lockdown feature is a plus.

[Rocinante Rider]

We recently opened a new brokerage account. We were required to upload our driver's licenses as part of step 1. And this particular transfer- which was a partial account transfer- did not require a statement to be uploaded before it was initiated.

Thanks for the response.

Did the new brokerage require that you provide them at least with your account number at your existing brokerage before they made the initial attempt to transfer? I've not done an ACATS transfer, but I don't understand how the new brokerage could even begin the process unless you, or a fraudster, asks them to transfer Account # XXXXXXX registered in [account holder name] at Brokerage XYZ.

[chinchin]

We recently opened a new brokerage account. We were required to upload our driver's licenses as part of step 1. And this particular transfer- which was a partial account transfer- did not require a statement to be uploaded before it was initiated.

Thanks for the response.

Did the new brokerage require that you provide them at least with your account number at your existing brokerage before they made the initial attempt to transfer? I've not done an ACATS transfer, but I don't understand how the new brokerage could even begin the process unless you, or a fraudster, asks them to transfer Account # XXXXXXX registered in [account holder name] at Brokerage XYZ.

The account number at the sending brokerage was needed.

[lazynovice]

We recently opened a new brokerage account. We were required to upload our driver's licenses as part of step 1. And this particular transfer- which was a partial account transfer- did not require a statement to be uploaded before it was initiated.

Thanks for the response.

Did the new brokerage require that you provide them at least with your account number at your existing brokerage before they made the initial attempt to transfer? I've not done an ACATS transfer, but I don't understand how the new brokerage could even begin the process unless you, or a fraudster, asks them to transfer Account # XXXXXXX registered in [account holder name] at Brokerage XYZ.

Yes the account number was provided in the initial request.

[Cletus Davenport]

Fidelity has a money transfer lockdown feature. It allows money into accounts like normal, but won't allow any money out unless you manually unlock the account in the security center.

I wish Vanguard had this……..

[ww340]

Vanguard says they mailed notice of the first 2 transfers and I noticed the third transfer before the notice went out. I had everything online and usually only get proxy votes or fund information sheets, so I do not always open Vanguard mail. That was on me.

There was no other notice given even though I do have alerts set for both myself and my husband. We are set up for text and email notices for all activity. If I do anything on our accounts we both get the messages. Even if I am only transferring from within an account we get notices, but not for ACATS.

After a forensic review of my email account, we discovered there were two emails from Fidelity in my deleted emails folder. We think my email was hacked and every time I got an important notice it went into the deleted email folder. My email also got hundreds or thousands of spam emails every time a fraudelent order was placed. My email had 73000 emails with 99% of those were spam and spam subscriptions. So that hid the fraud when the notices were hidden among the spam.

It was hard to figure out what was happening to that fund until I ran a transaction report. Even then it was weird because it listed the 750 transfer out with a value of 0. So at first it appeared there was no loss, when in reality each transfer was worth about $34000.00.

Our identity theft has been pretty staggering. Our major online accounts all got hit with fraud - ebay for $8000 paid through PayPal and drawn from our bank account. Ebay and PayPal refused to help with the fraudulent transactions. Fortunately I caught one of the bank draws almost in real time as it was happening and the other had gone through the afternoon before that. The bank took care of those reversals.

Sams's club had thousands of dollars of iPads and Mac computers ordered on my online account. I caught those orders in time to cancel most, but one was too late to cancel, but Sam'sclub worked with me and we got the shipping of the items stopped. Walmart was hit very similarly to Sam's with fraudulent orders of iPads and computers and gaming systems. Next Amazon was hit several times in a row even though we did multiple password changes and had 2factor ID. Somehow they were able to bypass everything and place the fraudulent orders. Amazon finally just shut down our online account.

I had medicare fraud of over $30,000 on my account. Multiple attempts to get car loans in our names. It has felt like we are under attack. It has also been a huge distraction and time consumer.

[arcane]

It sounds like OP's family is a treasure for scammers and hackers.

Please learn some basic security and protection of all your online accounts, like don't reuse passwords, enable 2FA as much as possible, and run your daily works on computers as regular users instead of admin/root, etc.

[mrmass]

It sounds like OP's family is a treasure for scammers and hackers.

Please learn some basic security and protection of all your online accounts, like don't reuse passwords, enable 2FA as much as possible, and run your daily works on computers as regular users instead of admin/root, etc.

+1

[RetiredAL]

Can anyone who has done an ACATS transfer please confirm the information that a fraudster would need to have and the procedure they would need to follow?

For your reference, here is Schwab's Paper Transfer Form. It does ask for copy of the "from account" statement to be included.

https://www.schwab.com/public/file/P-46 ... _FINAL.pdf

In reviewing Schwab's Online Transfer process, it appears it does not ask for a copy of the "from account" statement, at least not before the complete/submit page which I did not do, thus it appears all you need it the "from" account number.

I do have a Fidelity accounts, but I have never done an ACAT either in or out of Fidelity.