Current advisor ghosted me

Have a question about your personal investments? No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here.
Topic Author
bismillah
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:15 am

Current advisor ghosted me

Post by bismillah »

Howdy! I recently discovered this site after my financial advisor of 20 years went incommunicado after our previous quarterly meeting in Q4 2024 -- except to request his annual fee, of course. My wife & I have been saving for decades, but with our advisor out of the picture this is our first time trying to manage our investments ourselves. What limited reading I've done on this site to date has already been immensively helpful & given me hope that it's possible for us to do this ourselves, despite the fact that neither of us are savvy (yet) when it comes to investing.

Onto the nitty-gritty! I'm completely new to investing but not to saving -- our nest egg is ~$750k right now -- and I'd like to be able to focus more on the latter going forward. My immediate goals are: 1) find another financial advisor that can help us audit our existing investment situation, 2) get setup on a better website to review/manage our investments going forward, and 3) help us migrate to a three-fund portfolio. Here's how I'm thinking of proceeding... please let me know what you think:

1. The post that led me to Bogleheads mentioned Mark Zoril & PlanVision in general favorably. I haven't completed digging into his website yet, but his general attitude aligns with what I'm looking for. At $400/year for US clients, he already charges well below what I was paying my current advisor ($1k/year). Are there other financial advisors ya'll would recommend looking at?

2. PlanVision uses eMoney for making sense of clients' investments. Assuming ya'll don't see any glaring problems with using PlanVision as an advisor, I figured I would link my existing accounts to eMoney so that they (& I) can get visibility on my current investments & come up with a plan going forward -- at least as a starting point.

3. I'm still actively learning about the three-fund portfolio & how it works. I'm hoping PlanVision can help me reallocate & rejigger my investments to sit primarily in Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX), Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund (VTIAX), & Vanguard Total Bond Market Fund (VBTLX). I believe most (if not all) of my current investment accounts are primarily tax-advantaged (401k, traditional IRA, Roth IRA), and my current asset allocation appears to be 80/20, which seems higher than what's recommended here given that my wife & I are both 50.

Does that all sound reasonable? If so, I'll probably reach out to PlanVision on Monday about their availability for setting up an initial meeting... I was just looking for an overall sanity check first. Thanks in advance! :beer
User avatar
retiredjg
Posts: 56515
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:56 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by retiredjg »

Welcome to the forum. :happy

Yes, your plan is reasonable. You can also consider posting your information here in the format we use to help people with their portfolio questions. You will be gathering much the same information for PlanVision anyway. And you will learn a lot about your own financial situation just by doing the exercise.

See the link at the bottom of this message for how to do this.
steadyosmosis
Posts: 2414
Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2022 11:45 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by steadyosmosis »

Another option is to get a portfolio assessment today, right here at Bogleheads.
I'm sure you must've already seen examples of others doing it, so follow their lead.
(Retiredjg beat me to it, and in much better form.)
Credibility ... some posters have it.
student
Posts: 11793
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by student »

bismillah wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:01 am 1. The post that led me to Bogleheads mentioned Mark Zoril & PlanVision in general favorably. I haven't completed digging into his website yet, but his general attitude aligns with what I'm looking for. At $400/year for US clients, he already charges well below what I was paying my current advisor ($1k/year). Are there other financial advisors ya'll would recommend looking at?
I checked the price after I saw your post. The old price was $299 for the first year, then $8 per month. They indeed bumped the price from $299 to $389, and I don't see the $8 per month after that. If it is $389 per yer even after first year, that's a big increase from $96. I haven't received email about the price hike.

Also, your plan looks good.
techbud
Posts: 490
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:52 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by techbud »

student wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 9:21 am
bismillah wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:01 am 1. The post that led me to Bogleheads mentioned Mark Zoril & PlanVision in general favorably. I haven't completed digging into his website yet, but his general attitude aligns with what I'm looking for. At $400/year for US clients, he already charges well below what I was paying my current advisor ($1k/year). Are there other financial advisors ya'll would recommend looking at?
I checked the price after I saw your post. The old price was $299 for the first year, then $8 per month. They indeed bumped the price from $299 to $389, and I don't see the $8 per month after that. If it is $389 per yer even after first year, that's a big increase from $96. I haven't received email about the price hike.

Also, your plan looks good.
The T&C’s show $389 for the first year then $8/mo after that.

https://www.planvisionmn.com/wp-content ... jan-25.pdf
student
Posts: 11793
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by student »

techbud wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 10:32 am
student wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 9:21 am

I checked the price after I saw your post. The old price was $299 for the first year, then $8 per month. They indeed bumped the price from $299 to $389, and I don't see the $8 per month after that. If it is $389 per yer even after first year, that's a big increase from $96. I haven't received email about the price hike.

Also, your plan looks good.
The T&C’s show $389 for the first year then $8/mo after that.

https://www.planvisionmn.com/wp-content ... jan-25.pdf
Great. Thanks.
WeakOldGuy
Posts: 1148
Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2024 10:42 pm

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by WeakOldGuy »

I am not completely against using a paid advisor. I have used a CFP twice to help us with our financial planning. However, I'm not sure I would recommend immediately jumping from one advisor to another without first trying to get a handle on your own investments and financial situation. I think the better informed you are going into a relationship with a financial advisor, the better you can determine who will best serve your needs and give you a basis for deciding if the advice given is appropriate.

Assuming you have web access to your investments, it would be good to first look at what you have. I strongly recommend using the template for asking for a portfolio review.
viewtopic.php?t=6212

Just going through the process of providing that information will be a very good first step in preparing you if you then decide you want to hire a CFP to assist you. In the meantime, the smart folks here can give you some incite which again, will help prepare you as you move forward.

Bottom line, regardless if you use a CFP to help or not, ultimately you and your wife are the ones responsible for your own financial future.
On investing; I have lots of questions, many opinions, and little knowledge. A dangerous combination. Be warned.
Colorado Guy
Posts: 533
Joined: Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:57 pm

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by Colorado Guy »

bismillah wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:01 am My immediate goals are: 1) find another financial advisor that can help us audit our existing investment situation, 2) get setup on a better website to review/manage our investments going forward, and 3) help us migrate to a three-fund portfolio.
Something that may help you with dealing with all these new experiences is to consider the Vanguard PAS advisory services, since you specifically mentioned Vanguard funds as a target. With a reasonable fee of 0.3%, they can provide initial guidance and provide peace of mind while you study the BH site and firm up your own opinions.

You seem more informed than I was early on, as I had no clue whatsoever of where I should be investing. In my case, the PAS advisor helped me consolidate various accounts in different firms to Vanguard, and placed funds into a mix of funds that provided a moderate risk profile. I also used them for my initial sounding board and asked them investment questions that I was trying to wrap my head around. I used them for a few years until I was confident to handle it on my own (I think you can quit anytime). Since then I have made a few modifications here and there to the initial plan.

At a bare minimum, a free conversation with PAS may be of value to you, and give you a few more ideas of what to do or avoid.

Good luck.
Topic Author
bismillah
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by bismillah »

Still at work but wanted to check in:

retiredjg & steadyosmosis: I actually haven't spent enough time on BH to notice the format folks have used when posting their questions, nor did I realize folks on BH did portfolio assessments. I'll review the Asking Portfolio Questions page tonight or tomorrow -- thank you both!

student & techbud: FWIW I didn't realize it was $389 only for the first year -- thank you both for pointing that out. The first post where I saw PlanVision mentioned was from a few years ago, when the first-year price was much lower. And yeah, it might be a big increase from what folks here previous remember seeing, but my absentee advisor just asked me for $1k to re-up for this year (which I will obviously not being doing). So it'll be a relative bargain to have an capable advisor that I can once again talk to.

WeakOldGuy: I didn't realize that BH did portfolio assessments here until retiredjg & steadyosmosis mentioned it a few posts up! Learning a lot today... I'll definitely avail myself of that option first, both to get opinions from folks here & also as a dry-run for getting setup with PlanVision (if I do end up choosing to go that route). And I agree with what you & others have said: it's worth my wife & I taking the time to learn about this, as it's ultimately our financial health on the line & we therefore have an obvious level of self-interest.

Colorado Guy: You said that Vanguard PAS advisory services might be worth a look, but I thought folks here looked down on percent-based fees. Or am I misunderstanding what you meant when you mentioned that 0.3% fee?
student
Posts: 11793
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by student »

bismillah wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 3:57 pm Still at work but wanted to check in:

retiredjg & steadyosmosis: I actually haven't spent enough time on BH to notice the format folks have used when posting their questions, nor did I realize folks on BH did portfolio assessments. I'll review the Asking Portfolio Questions page tonight or tomorrow -- thank you both!

student & techbud: FWIW I didn't realize it was $389 only for the first year -- thank you both for pointing that out. The first post where I saw PlanVision mentioned was from a few years ago, when the first-year price was much lower. And yeah, it might be a big increase from what folks here previous remember seeing, but my absentee advisor just asked me for $1k to re-up for this year (which I will obviously not being doing). So it'll be a relative bargain to have an capable advisor that I can once again talk to.

WeakOldGuy: I didn't realize that BH did portfolio assessments here until retiredjg & steadyosmosis mentioned it a few posts up! Learning a lot today... I'll definitely avail myself of that option first, both to get opinions from folks here & also as a dry-run for getting setup with PlanVision (if I do end up choosing to go that route). And I agree with what you & others have said: it's worth my wife & I taking the time to learn about this, as it's ultimately our financial health on the line & we therefore have an obvious level of self-interest.

Colorado Guy: You said that Vanguard PAS advisory services might be worth a look, but I thought folks here looked down on percent-based fees. Or am I misunderstanding what you meant when you mentioned that 0.3% fee?
Given that the price increase is only for the first year, I think it is worth it because I value the software itself at $50 a year. I only have planvision for a couple of years and I probably email him once or twice a year. Whenever I ask him a question, I also posted it here so I can compare answers.
User avatar
retiredjg
Posts: 56515
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:56 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by retiredjg »

bismillah wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 3:57 pm Colorado Guy: You said that Vanguard PAS advisory services might be worth a look, but I thought folks here looked down on percent-based fees. Or am I misunderstanding what you meant when you mentioned that 0.3% fee?
It would be wonderful if everybody could manage their own money and had a desire to manage their own money. Unfortunately, that does not describe everyone.

The point is not to avoid an advisor. The point is to avoid an expensive advisor, especially one who will try to divert you into investments that pay them a commission or are not in your best interest. There is a HUGE difference, in the long run, between paying .3% and 1.0% or 1.35%.

Nobody is a cheap as Vanguard's PAS when it comes to managing your money. They also have no financial incentive to sell you stuff you don't need for their own financial benefit. They do not create such a complex portfolio that you think you cannot possibly do it on their own. Their service often acts as "training wheels" for people who eventually take over their own management.

If you need an advisor for management or if you simply want one, there is no other service that is as low cost and relatively simple. If you end up there, I suggest you insist on index funds only, no actively managed funds.
Jack FFR1846
Posts: 19711
Joined: Tue Dec 31, 2013 6:05 am
Location: 26 miles, 385 yards west of Copley Square

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

The key to the 3 fund portfolio is that it uses all INDEX funds. These funds don't require expensive, gambling management. They simply follow an index. You're not going to beat the market by 100% or underperform the market by 50%, you're going to get simple, boring market returns. But you don't need any salesman, uh, I mean advisor to rip you off, uh, I mean help you. In short, you have:

US Stocks
US Bonds
International Stocks

Pick index funds for all of them and then, well, go do something else. You could spend excessive time as many enthusiasts do on diddling with your portfolio and make it return worse than if you ignored it. I spend too much time. 15 minutes a year. Yah, I know, why do I spend so much time? I'm an enthusiast.

If you want names for the above, what I would personally pick to start would be:

VTI
BND
VEA
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid
Topic Author
bismillah
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by bismillah »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 5:13 pm The key to the 3 fund portfolio is that it uses all INDEX funds. These funds don't require expensive, gambling management. They simply follow an index. You're not going to beat the market by 100% or underperform the market by 50%, you're going to get simple, boring market returns. But you don't need any salesman, uh, I mean advisor to rip you off, uh, I mean help you. In short, you have:

US Stocks
US Bonds
International Stocks

Pick index funds for all of them and then, well, go do something else. You could spend excessive time as many enthusiasts do on diddling with your portfolio and make it return worse than if you ignored it. I spend too much time. 15 minutes a year. Yah, I know, why do I spend so much time? I'm an enthusiast.

If you want names for the above, what I would personally pick to start would be:

VTI
BND
VEA
Yeah, the elegance of its simplicity is very attractive to me. I'm interested in learning to manage my investments, but I am not interested in micromanaging them or trying to time/beat the market. If I'm gonna spend time on anything, it's with my family, playing video games, or grilling/gardening if the weather's nice.

In any case, the next item on my to-do list -- ahead of the three I originally posted about -- is filling out the Asking Portfolio Questions template & getting my current investment setup reviewed by the fine folks here.
User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 18721
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by White Coat Investor »

student wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 9:21 am
bismillah wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:01 am 1. The post that led me to Bogleheads mentioned Mark Zoril & PlanVision in general favorably. I haven't completed digging into his website yet, but his general attitude aligns with what I'm looking for. At $400/year for US clients, he already charges well below what I was paying my current advisor ($1k/year). Are there other financial advisors ya'll would recommend looking at?
I checked the price after I saw your post. The old price was $299 for the first year, then $8 per month. They indeed bumped the price from $299 to $389, and I don't see the $8 per month after that. If it is $389 per yer even after first year, that's a big increase from $96. I haven't received email about the price hike.

Also, your plan looks good.
That's because the prior price, and frankly probably the new one, are too low to stay in business for long. Get it while you can but don't think this is what it actually costs to run a profitable financial advisory business that can serve most people who need financial advisors. This service is definitely not for delegators and really only for the most DIYey validators out there.

Not sure why people expect much for $300 a year. I mean, Rick Ferri and Allan Roth charge $450-550 an hour to give advice. So you're buying like a half hour of time. How much service do you expect to be done for you in a half hour? That's not a half hour on the phone with you. That's a half hour total including any prep time.

Frankly you're not going to get a lot of good advice paying even $1K a year. The going rate for a "full service" financial planner/investment manager is $5-15K a year. To use someone who charges less while giving good advice means you'll need to be doing a substantial amount of the work yourself and you better be okay with that. It is a very small step from using PlanVision as your advisor to being a DIYer.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
student
Posts: 11793
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by student »

White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 6:53 pm
student wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 9:21 am

I checked the price after I saw your post. The old price was $299 for the first year, then $8 per month. They indeed bumped the price from $299 to $389, and I don't see the $8 per month after that. If it is $389 per yer even after first year, that's a big increase from $96. I haven't received email about the price hike.

Also, your plan looks good.
That's because the prior price, and frankly probably the new one, are too low to stay in business for long. Get it while you can but don't think this is what it actually costs to run a profitable financial advisory business that can serve most people who need financial advisors. This service is definitely not for delegators and really only for the most DIYey validators out there.
Yes. I am a DIYer and I am a client since 2023. I have only emailed him twice regarding financial questions (to confirm whether my approach is sound) and one more time requesting him to activate the goal tab in the software.
User avatar
Silentnight
Posts: 213
Joined: Sat Oct 24, 2020 11:51 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by Silentnight »

White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 6:53 pm Not sure why people expect much for $300 a year. I mean, Rick Ferri and Allan Roth charge $450-550 an hour to give advice. So you're buying like a half hour of time. How much service do you expect to be done for you in a half hour? That's not a half hour on the phone with you. That's a half hour total including any prep time.
That sounds a little harsh. I am not a numbers person. I met for 50 min. via Zoom with Mark and really appreciated his feedback and reassurance. I later met with Jason for 30 minutes for advice on Roth conversions and he was very helpful. He also educated me on how to use the Dinkytown tax calculator. I'm happy with their services. I'm not sure about what was done "for me" but things were done "with me" that I found very helpful and increased my DIY confidence. I would encourage OP to give PlanVision a try.
Katietsu
Posts: 7937
Joined: Sun Sep 22, 2013 1:48 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by Katietsu »

Please watch all the videos on PlanVision. They will give you a better idea of what to expect should you go forward. PlanVision is not for people who want quarterly meetings or an office to phone.
Journeylover
Posts: 8
Joined: Wed Jun 30, 2021 6:42 pm

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by Journeylover »

I pay 8 a mo for eMoney. Occasionally ask them questions. I also like the Bond Beginners course by Jennifer at Diamond Nest Egg (you tube) and buy individual bonds myself instead of a bond fund. Seems bond funds dont always do great and I like to have control and clarity on my fixed income.
techbud
Posts: 490
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:52 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by techbud »

Silentnight wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 10:39 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 6:53 pm Not sure why people expect much for $300 a year. I mean, Rick Ferri and Allan Roth charge $450-550 an hour to give advice. So you're buying like a half hour of time. How much service do you expect to be done for you in a half hour? That's not a half hour on the phone with you. That's a half hour total including any prep time.
That sounds a little harsh. I am not a numbers person. I met for 50 min. via Zoom with Mark and really appreciated his feedback and reassurance. I later met with Jason for 30 minutes for advice on Roth conversions and he was very helpful. He also educated me on how to use the Dinkytown tax calculator. I'm happy with their services. I'm not sure about what was done "for me" but things were done "with me" that I found very helpful and increased my DIY confidence. I would encourage OP to give PlanVision a try.
I agree... this criticism is a little harsh. I have been a client of PlanVision for the last 2 years and am very happy with the service. I have no expectations that I am getting the same service as a Rick Ferri or an Allan Roth, but I am extremely happy with the service I get. For example, I consulted with Mark & Jason of PlanVision regarding our plan to pull the trigger on an early retirement. Even though I am very much a DIY'er, I appreciated having a second set of eyes to review my plan and to ensure that I did not miss anything. I also appreciate having the ability to shoot them financial or tax questions now and then when I want a professional's advice.

Read the many threads here on Bogleheads regarding the Planvision service; most people are very happy with the value they receive for the money. I concur it's not for everyone. They are very much financial advisors, not financial managers.
User avatar
ObliviousInvestor
Posts: 4314
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:32 am
Contact:

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by ObliviousInvestor »

Silentnight wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 10:39 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 6:53 pm Not sure why people expect much for $300 a year. I mean, Rick Ferri and Allan Roth charge $450-550 an hour to give advice. So you're buying like a half hour of time. How much service do you expect to be done for you in a half hour? That's not a half hour on the phone with you. That's a half hour total including any prep time.
That sounds a little harsh. I am not a numbers person. I met for 50 min. via Zoom with Mark and really appreciated his feedback and reassurance. I later met with Jason for 30 minutes for advice on Roth conversions and he was very helpful. He also educated me on how to use the Dinkytown tax calculator. I'm happy with their services. I'm not sure about what was done "for me" but things were done "with me" that I found very helpful and increased my DIY confidence. I would encourage OP to give PlanVision a try.
I don't think Jim is far off base. Per their 5/2024 Form ADV filed with the SEC (link below), PlanVision had 5,003 clients, 3 people providing investment-advisory services, and 3 other employees who did not provide investment-advisory services. That's 1,667 clients per advisor.
https://reports.adviserinfo.sec.gov/rep ... 166311.pdf

At 1,667 clients per advisor, after accounting for other various work that an advisor has to do (e.g., continuing education and training), that would mean each client, on average, is getting probably a bit less than an hour of an advisor's time per year -- plus about the same amount of time from a non-advisor employee.

There are a lot of Bogleheads who are happy with PlanVision. I'm happy that they exist. And I think highly of the people I know who work for PlanVision. But it's important for people to have reasonable expectations of what they can provide given the number of clients they're servicing.
Mike Piper | Roth is a name, not an acronym. If you type ROTH, you're just yelling about retirement accounts.
techbud
Posts: 490
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:52 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by techbud »

ObliviousInvestor wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 8:24 am
Silentnight wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 10:39 pm

That sounds a little harsh. I am not a numbers person. I met for 50 min. via Zoom with Mark and really appreciated his feedback and reassurance. I later met with Jason for 30 minutes for advice on Roth conversions and he was very helpful. He also educated me on how to use the Dinkytown tax calculator. I'm happy with their services. I'm not sure about what was done "for me" but things were done "with me" that I found very helpful and increased my DIY confidence. I would encourage OP to give PlanVision a try.
I don't think Jim is far off base. Per their 5/2024 Form ADV filed with the SEC (link below), PlanVision had 5,003 clients, 3 people providing investment-advisory services, and 3 other employees who did not provide investment-advisory services. That's 1,667 clients per advisor.
https://reports.adviserinfo.sec.gov/rep ... 166311.pdf

At 1,667 clients per advisor, after accounting for other various work that an advisor has to do (e.g., continuing education and training), that would mean each client on average is getting probably a bit less than an hour of an advisor's time per year (plus about the same amount of time from a non-advisor employee).

There are a lot of Bogleheads who are happy with PlanVision. I'm happy that they exist. And I think highly of the people I know who work for PlanVision. But it's important for people to have reasonable expectations of what they can provide given the number of clients they're servicing.
I look at it this way: I am a subscriber of PlanVision's services, and I am very pleased with the value and service I get for the fees. In fact, I am indebted to them for providing me the advice that enabled me to retire early.
Long term, if, as Mike & WHI are hypothesizing, the service is not sustainable from a business perspective and they go away, then the question is, what is the impact to me & other BH'ers? Would we be up a creek without a paddle (or without an advisor?) Or would we adapt and simply find guidance somewhere else? I think the latter.
User avatar
ObliviousInvestor
Posts: 4314
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:32 am
Contact:

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by ObliviousInvestor »

techbud wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 8:43 am
ObliviousInvestor wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 8:24 am
I don't think Jim is far off base. Per their 5/2024 Form ADV filed with the SEC (link below), PlanVision had 5,003 clients, 3 people providing investment-advisory services, and 3 other employees who did not provide investment-advisory services. That's 1,667 clients per advisor.
https://reports.adviserinfo.sec.gov/rep ... 166311.pdf

At 1,667 clients per advisor, after accounting for other various work that an advisor has to do (e.g., continuing education and training), that would mean each client on average is getting probably a bit less than an hour of an advisor's time per year (plus about the same amount of time from a non-advisor employee).

There are a lot of Bogleheads who are happy with PlanVision. I'm happy that they exist. And I think highly of the people I know who work for PlanVision. But it's important for people to have reasonable expectations of what they can provide given the number of clients they're servicing.
I look at it this way: I am a subscriber of PlanVision's services, and I am very pleased with the value and service I get for the fees. In fact, I am indebted to them for providing me the advice that enabled me to retire early.
Long term, if, as Mike & WHI are hypothesizing, the service is not sustainable from a business perspective and they go away, then the question is, what is the impact to me & other BH'ers? Would we be up a creek without a paddle (or without an advisor?) Or would we adapt and simply find guidance somewhere else? I think the latter.
To be clear, I'm not asserting that I expect PlanVision to go away. I'm just asserting that people considering their service should expect to receive a little less than one hour of an advisor's time per year. And that's just based on the firm's own reporting and simple arithmetic (either of which anybody is welcome to check).

For enthusiastic DIYers, that may be a great fit. For people who want more assistance, it's not going to be a great fit. Neither is wrong. It's just important for people to understand what they want and have reasonable expectations about what they're likely to receive from any given firm before hiring them.
Mike Piper | Roth is a name, not an acronym. If you type ROTH, you're just yelling about retirement accounts.
student
Posts: 11793
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by student »

ObliviousInvestor wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 8:54 am To be clear, I'm not asserting that I expect PlanVision to go away. I'm just asserting that people considering their service should expect to receive a little less than one hour of an advisor's time per year. And that's just based on the firm's own reporting and simple arithmetic (either of which anybody is welcome to check).

For enthusiastic DIYers, that may be a great fit. For people who want more assistance, it's not going to be a great fit. Neither is wrong. It's just important for people to understand what they want and have reasonable expectations about what they're likely to receive from any given firm before hiring them.
This is a fair point. I am a DIYer and I am a client since 2023. I have only emailed him twice regarding financial questions (to confirm whether my approach was sound) and one more time requesting him to activate the goal tab in the software, so that I can see the Monte Carlo results. BTW, I also posted the same questions on Bogleheads so that I could compare. For the first question, both Mark and the general consensus from the forum was that my approach was reasonable. For the second question, I did not a get a response to the question here and Marl referred me to Jason (CPA) who answered my question. I think I will likely request a meeting a couple of years before retirement to see whether there are any things I need to be doing. I would think that they will drop clients who are not a good fit for their model.
tibbitts
Posts: 26801
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by tibbitts »

bismillah wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:01 am Does that all sound reasonable? If so, I'll probably reach out to PlanVision on Monday about their availability for setting up an initial meeting... I was just looking for an overall sanity check first. Thanks in advance! :beer
It sounds more (needlessly) rushed than reasonable. When I learn something new the learning curve is usually very steep initially, and often I learn something one day that contradicts something I'd learned the day before. So I need time to digest enough information to determine what's noise and what's not. Also there are potentially issues with leaving your current adviser that you have to manage carefully to avoid extremely damaging tax impacts. My guess (not having used the service) is that Planvision isn't going to be able to help with the important implementation details of that process; you need to understand the issues yourself.
Topic Author
bismillah
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by bismillah »

tibbitts wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 10:22 am It sounds more (needlessly) rushed than reasonable. When I learn something new the learning curve is usually very steep initially, and often I learn something one day that contradicts something I'd learned the day before. So I need time to digest enough information to determine what's noise and what's not. Also there are potentially issues with leaving your current adviser that you have to manage carefully to avoid extremely damaging tax impacts. My guess (not having used the service) is that Planvision isn't going to be able to help with the important implementation details of that process; you need to understand the issues yourself.
That's one of my primary concerns right now. How do I figure out what the potential tax implications are of firing my current advisor? I'm fairly certain that's not something I can do myself. And if PlanVision can't do it, who can? Would I have to pay .3% ($2250) to Vanguard PAS advisory services for that?
User avatar
retiredjg
Posts: 56515
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:56 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by retiredjg »

You said you plan to post your financial details after you get them together. People here can help you figure out the tax implications of changing your portfolio. It could be simple. It could be complex. Depends on what you have.

I don't know if PlanVision and/or Vanguard's PAS do that or not.
tibbitts
Posts: 26801
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by tibbitts »

bismillah wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:24 am
tibbitts wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 10:22 am It sounds more (needlessly) rushed than reasonable. When I learn something new the learning curve is usually very steep initially, and often I learn something one day that contradicts something I'd learned the day before. So I need time to digest enough information to determine what's noise and what's not. Also there are potentially issues with leaving your current adviser that you have to manage carefully to avoid extremely damaging tax impacts. My guess (not having used the service) is that Planvision isn't going to be able to help with the important implementation details of that process; you need to understand the issues yourself.
That's one of my primary concerns right now. How do I figure out what the potential tax implications are of firing my current advisor? I'm fairly certain that's not something I can do myself. And if PlanVision can't do it, who can? Would I have to pay .3% ($2250) to Vanguard PAS advisory services for that?
I'm not sure PAS would do that in the necessary detail either, and that's why I'm saying to just slow down and research what's involved. Start by posting more details here. There's no rush. There are really two questions: where you eventually want to be, and then how to get there efficiently.
student
Posts: 11793
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by student »

bismillah wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:24 am
tibbitts wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 10:22 am It sounds more (needlessly) rushed than reasonable. When I learn something new the learning curve is usually very steep initially, and often I learn something one day that contradicts something I'd learned the day before. So I need time to digest enough information to determine what's noise and what's not. Also there are potentially issues with leaving your current adviser that you have to manage carefully to avoid extremely damaging tax impacts. My guess (not having used the service) is that Planvision isn't going to be able to help with the important implementation details of that process; you need to understand the issues yourself.
That's one of my primary concerns right now. How do I figure out what the potential tax implications are of firing my current advisor? I'm fairly certain that's not something I can do myself. And if PlanVision can't do it, who can? Would I have to pay .3% ($2250) to Vanguard PAS advisory services for that?
There may or may not be tax issues. Can you post your portfolio?
Topic Author
bismillah
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by bismillah »

student wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 12:16 pm There may or may not be tax issues. Can you post your portfolio?
Yep, I'm gonna make that a priority this weekend.
Topic Author
bismillah
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by bismillah »

retiredjg wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:31 am You said you plan to post your financial details after you get them together. People here can help you figure out the tax implications of changing your portfolio. It could be simple. It could be complex. Depends on what you have.

I don't know if PlanVision and/or Vanguard's PAS do that or not.
Great, I didn't know if that was something that could be determined by posting my portfolio as described in the wiki. I'll stop worrying about that specific line-item until after I've posted my info & folks have a chance to review.
protagonist
Posts: 10130
Joined: Sun Dec 26, 2010 11:47 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by protagonist »

bismillah wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 8:01 am Howdy! I recently discovered this site after my financial advisor of 20 years went incommunicado after our previous quarterly meeting in Q4 2024 -- except to request his annual fee, of course. My wife & I have been saving for decades, but with our advisor out of the picture this is our first time trying to manage our investments ourselves.
Welcome to the forum and congratulations! In years to come you may decide that being ghosted by your advisor was the best thing that could have happened to you in your financial life. Many of us (myself included) started with brokers or advisors and are much happier (as well as probably wealthier) now doing it on our own.

Your goals seem fine from my perspective, but you really should, imho, take the time and effort to really learn about this stuff, following which you may decide you don't need PlanVision. You can just sign up with a discount investment firm (the 3 most commonly used here are Fidelity, Vanguard and Schwab) and do it yourself. Contrary to popular opinion, investing wisely is really very simple. The Bogleheads wiki is a good place to start, if you like our general approach. The specifics are pretty much up to you...your understanding of your risk tolerance and goals, and also a lot of stuff that is guesswork (like how much international exposure you should have, nominal bonds vs. TIPS (ladder vs. mutual fund), stuff like that. But it is all easily tweak-ible. I don't know anything about PlanVision, but I do know that I have explained all this to non-financially literate but reasonably intelligent people in a half hour or less and they have been able to do it themselves. It's not rocket science. The tweaks are mostly guesses, so we all have different approaches to an extent when it comes to details, but the basic idea is the same (which strategy actually does best in the long run is largely luck).

And there are lots of people here who are very well-informed and eager to help when you have questions.

Good luck.
"The truth cannot force its way in, when something else is occupying its place." | -Ludwig Wittgenstein
User avatar
retiredjg
Posts: 56515
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:56 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by retiredjg »

bismillah wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 12:35 pm
retiredjg wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 11:31 am You said you plan to post your financial details after you get them together. People here can help you figure out the tax implications of changing your portfolio. It could be simple. It could be complex. Depends on what you have.

I don't know if PlanVision and/or Vanguard's PAS do that or not.
Great, I didn't know if that was something that could be determined by posting my portfolio as described in the wiki. I'll stop worrying about that specific line-item until after I've posted my info & folks have a chance to review.
Well, more information may be needed once you post your portfolio. But it helps to see the portfolio to know what to ask about.

But here's a start. While you are gathering your info, for your taxable account only....see what you can find out about unrealized gains and losses for each investment. Gains and losses will not matter in your 401k/403b/IRA/Roth IRA/HSA etc.
student
Posts: 11793
Joined: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:58 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by student »

protagonist wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 12:36 pm Contrary to popular opinion, investing wisely is really very simple. The Bogleheads wiki is a good place to start, if you like our general approach. The specifics are pretty much up to you...your understanding of your risk tolerance and goals, and also a lot of stuff that is guesswork (like how much international exposure you should have, nominal bonds vs. TIPS (ladder vs. mutual fund), stuff like that.
Yes. I think the first step to use the Bogleheads approach is: Market return is good enough for me and I am not looking to beat the market.
tibbitts
Posts: 26801
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by tibbitts »

bismillah wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 12:33 pm
student wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 12:16 pm There may or may not be tax issues. Can you post your portfolio?
Yep, I'm gonna make that a priority this weekend.
Something you'll want to explain is what relationship you have with this adviser. It's pretty unusual to get a bill. In terms of leaving the adviser it's important to know what you can or can't do. For example, when I left an adviser that I'd "inherited" a few years ago, I learned that my account relationship didn't include having trading authority over my own account. So I couldn't initiate a transfer, and Vanguard/Fidelity/etc. couldn't initiate a transfer. And within the firm, nobody other than my specific adviser could do that (so, no 800-number rep, etc.)

When you say you're getting a bill that almost suggests to me that that this person actually is advice-only and isn't managing your money and has no trading authority, in which case the mechanics of "leaving" might be essentially doing nothing except not paying for advice.
User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 18721
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by White Coat Investor »

Silentnight wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 10:39 pm
White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 6:53 pm Not sure why people expect much for $300 a year. I mean, Rick Ferri and Allan Roth charge $450-550 an hour to give advice. So you're buying like a half hour of time. How much service do you expect to be done for you in a half hour? That's not a half hour on the phone with you. That's a half hour total including any prep time.
That sounds a little harsh. I am not a numbers person. I met for 50 min. via Zoom with Mark and really appreciated his feedback and reassurance. I later met with Jason for 30 minutes for advice on Roth conversions and he was very helpful. He also educated me on how to use the Dinkytown tax calculator. I'm happy with their services. I'm not sure about what was done "for me" but things were done "with me" that I found very helpful and increased my DIY confidence. I would encourage OP to give PlanVision a try.
I'd be happy too with someone knowledgeable willing to spend at least 80 minutes with me for a mere $300. I think everyone should give PlanVision a try before they raise rates or go out of business. I'm just pointing out that one or the other is likely to happen soon. I'm not sure a charity that didn't pay its advisors could run that service at that price. Let's assume they spend about as much time between calls or prepping for calls as on calls each day. Now let's assume a pretty typical 50% overhead rate. So they made $75 in 80 minutes. That's $56/hour. I don't know many people capable of running a financial advisory service willing to work for that. I'm positive I couldn't hire a real, experienced advisor to work for that.

Get it while you can. Maybe there's enough people willing to pay to have Mark's phone number but not actually call him to make this model profitable. I truly hope so, but I'm pretty skeptical.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
techbud
Posts: 490
Joined: Thu Dec 22, 2022 6:52 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by techbud »

White Coat Investor wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 10:15 pm Get it while you can. Maybe there's enough people willing to pay to have Mark's phone number but not actually call him to make this model profitable. I truly hope so, but I'm pretty skeptical.
Per this article, Planvision was started in 2012, and there are Boglehead postings about it going back to 2019 (eg BH'ers have been discussing the service for six years). I think it's a little harsh to say "get it while you can" implying they are either fly by night or alternatively implying they won't be around much longer.
tibbitts
Posts: 26801
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 5:50 pm

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by tibbitts »

techbud wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:03 am
White Coat Investor wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 10:15 pm Get it while you can. Maybe there's enough people willing to pay to have Mark's phone number but not actually call him to make this model profitable. I truly hope so, but I'm pretty skeptical.
Per this article, Planvision was started in 2012, and there are Boglehead postings about it going back to 2019 (eg BH'ers have been discussing the service for six years). I think it's a little harsh to say "get it while you can" implying they are either fly by night or alternatively implying they won't be around much longer.
I sort of agree, but in view of the two recent price increases for the first year of service, the "get it while you can" might also refer to the current price, and to that extent at least be a reasonable recommendation.
User avatar
White Coat Investor
Posts: 18721
Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2007 8:11 pm
Location: Greatest Snow On Earth

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by White Coat Investor »

tibbitts wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:24 am
techbud wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 8:03 am
Per this article, Planvision was started in 2012, and there are Boglehead postings about it going back to 2019 (eg BH'ers have been discussing the service for six years). I think it's a little harsh to say "get it while you can" implying they are either fly by night or alternatively implying they won't be around much longer.
I sort of agree, but in view of the two recent price increases for the first year of service, the "get it while you can" might also refer to the current price, and to that extent at least be a reasonable recommendation.
I don't think their current volume has been around since 2019, much less 2012. But hey, if Mark can make it profitable enough to keep it going long term with high volume or doesn't care about the profit, maybe I'm wrong and it'll still be readily available at the current price in a couple of years. It's really a huge experiment and one I'm guessing is not going to work out at this price, long term. That said, I think the model itself could work out fine long term at a higher price. Especially the lack of need to market the service given how much free marketing it gets here.

Low price.
Low service.
Aimed at a very specific niche of the market (the almost DIYer).

Maybe this is the answer the validators have been looking for. I talked to one of their clients this week who was pretty happy with it. But I didn't have to talk to him for long before I was left with the impression that even most validators need a lot more service than he got.
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course
User avatar
Harry Livermore
Posts: 2028
Joined: Thu Apr 04, 2019 5:32 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by Harry Livermore »

White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Jan 30, 2025 6:53 pm
This service is definitely not for delegators and really only for the most DIYey validators out there.
I would agree with this. We Zoomed with Mark a little over a year ago, and it was definitely worth another set of eyes on our plan, but I was already very confident that there were no glaring holes anyway. He was thoughtful and asked several good questions and made some simple suggestions. Perfectly happy with the service received for $300.
We've kept the service, and Mark did a very basic email check-in about a month ago.
As far as his business model goes, I think his client base is likely transient; there are hundreds of thousands of DIY folks that might fancy a second set of eyes. They may stay for a year or two. If Mark can capture 2% of that market, he's likely got a very solid business model.
Personally, I enjoy lurking here, and sometimes posting, but I'm not comfortable revealing personal financial information here. I understand many others feel differently, and that's great!
Just opining. Not looking for an argument one way or the other.
OP, for $300, why not give it a whirl, in conjunction with an "Asking Portfolio Questions"-formatted inquiry here?
Cheers
Topic Author
bismillah
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by bismillah »

Harry Livermore wrote: Sat Feb 01, 2025 4:55 pm OP, for $300, why not give it a whirl, in conjunction with an "Asking Portfolio Questions"-formatted inquiry here?
Cheers
Yeah, that's basically where I'm at right now. Been busy the last few days, but as soon as I get home from my final batch of parenting activities this afternoon, I'll get started on putting together a portfolio review request using the "Asking Portfolio Question" template.

Once folks have provided their feedback about my portfolio -- and I've had a few days to digest what they say -- I'll probably reach out to PlanVision. Nothing that's been said so far in this thread has given me a reason to hesitate. As I've already stated, even with their recent first-year price increase to $389, it seems like money well spent to have them give their professional take.
Topic Author
bismillah
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by bismillah »

Question about the "Asking Portfolio Question" template:

Near the bottom of the template, the "Available funds" section contains info about "Funds available in his 401(k)". How is this different from the "Current retirement assets" section's "His 401k"? I have a 401k that contains exactly one fund, to which all of my current contributions are allocated, but I'm not sure where that info belongs.
tj
Posts: 11340
Joined: Wed Dec 23, 2009 11:10 pm

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by tj »

Mark used to charge $96. So he's quadrupled his price due to higher demand. I'm sure he's content with it. I'm sure he'll continue to raise it if demand supports it.
TwstdSista
Posts: 1471
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 3:03 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by TwstdSista »

bismillah wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:15 pm Question about the "Asking Portfolio Question" template:

Near the bottom of the template, the "Available funds" section contains info about "Funds available in his 401(k)". How is this different from the "Current retirement assets" section's "His 401k"? I have a 401k that contains exactly one fund, to which all of my current contributions are allocated, but I'm not sure where that info belongs.
The question is asking for all the funds the 401k has available. You might be invested in just one, but 401k plans typically offer 20-50 different funds (including at least 8 different target date funds). The Bogleheads responding to your post will want to know what your options are to help you build or adjust your portfolio.
Topic Author
bismillah
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by bismillah »

TwstdSista wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 4:03 am
bismillah wrote: Sun Feb 02, 2025 9:15 pm Question about the "Asking Portfolio Question" template:

Near the bottom of the template, the "Available funds" section contains info about "Funds available in his 401(k)". How is this different from the "Current retirement assets" section's "His 401k"? I have a 401k that contains exactly one fund, to which all of my current contributions are allocated, but I'm not sure where that info belongs.
The question is asking for all the funds the 401k has available. You might be invested in just one, but 401k plans typically offer 20-50 different funds (including at least 8 different target date funds). The Bogleheads responding to your post will want to know what your options are to help you build or adjust your portfolio.
Ahhh that makes sense -- thank you!
Topic Author
bismillah
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by bismillah »

tibbitts wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 12:45 pm
bismillah wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 12:33 pm

Yep, I'm gonna make that a priority this weekend.
Something you'll want to explain is what relationship you have with this adviser. It's pretty unusual to get a bill. In terms of leaving the adviser it's important to know what you can or can't do. For example, when I left an adviser that I'd "inherited" a few years ago, I learned that my account relationship didn't include having trading authority over my own account. So I couldn't initiate a transfer, and Vanguard/Fidelity/etc. couldn't initiate a transfer. And within the firm, nobody other than my specific adviser could do that (so, no 800-number rep, etc.)

When you say you're getting a bill that almost suggests to me that that this person actually is advice-only and isn't managing your money and has no trading authority, in which case the mechanics of "leaving" might be essentially doing nothing except not paying for advice.
Pretty sure my adviser has trading authority. But assuming I'm correct, I have no idea if it's as exclusive as the situation you described with your "inherited" adviser.

In terms of the bill, it's an annual fee that I pay for his services. The bill was under $500/year when we first started working with him 20 years ago; it's grown as our portfolio has grown, and I assumed that was normal. Of course, what I'm finding out now is that a lot of the funds I'm in have high expense ratios, and that he might be making money off that as well as the annual fee I pay him...?
Topic Author
bismillah
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by bismillah »

Another question: my wife & I have a joint JTWROS account. Should I be listing info about that account & its funds somewhere, as I'm filling out the "Asking Portfolio Questions" template?
User avatar
retiredjg
Posts: 56515
Joined: Thu Jan 10, 2008 11:56 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by retiredjg »

bismillah wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 7:54 am Another question: my wife & I have a joint JTWROS account. Should I be listing info about that account & its funds somewhere, as I'm filling out the "Asking Portfolio Questions" template?
Unless you and your wife keep your finances separate, all accounts should be listed.
valleyrock
Posts: 1480
Joined: Sun Aug 12, 2018 7:12 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by valleyrock »

On Planvision, I checked them out recently. They put everything into eMoney, as I remember, and clients have access to the eMoney information (but not all the bells and whistles which eMoney provides to advisors). As they state, the Planvision people have a lot of experience viewing portfolios and considering next steps, based on a client's goals, risk tolerance, timing, etc. after things are set up in eMoney for viewing, looking at scenarios, etc.

As another bit of information: eMoney is what Fidelity "financial advisors" use as well.

So, it might be useful, when considering going with many of the advisors out there, to read up on eMoney, how it works, its bells and whistles, options available to advisors, and clients of advisors that use eMoney, etc.

(This ability, as it were, to look at portfolios in an overall way, reminds me of what an engineering professor told the class years ago. After the design is done, you sit back, rub your belly, and ask, does this all make sense? Of course, for Bogleheads, the simpler the better and the easier it is to come to conclusions while rubbing your belly!)
Topic Author
bismillah
Posts: 22
Joined: Thu Jan 30, 2025 7:15 am

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by bismillah »

retiredjg wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 7:58 am
bismillah wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2025 7:54 am Another question: my wife & I have a joint JTWROS account. Should I be listing info about that account & its funds somewhere, as I'm filling out the "Asking Portfolio Questions" template?
Unless you and your wife keep your finances separate, all accounts should be listed.
Great, ty. I have a UTMA fund for my son, as well, but I wasn't initially sure if I should only be submitting retirement info for consideration/review. I'll make sure I include info about our JTWROS and UTMA accounts, as well.
User avatar
ObliviousInvestor
Posts: 4314
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2009 9:32 am
Contact:

Re: Current advisor ghosted me

Post by ObliviousInvestor »

ObliviousInvestor wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 8:24 am Per their 5/2024 Form ADV filed with the SEC (link below), PlanVision had 5,003 clients, 3 people providing investment-advisory services, and 3 other employees who did not provide investment-advisory services. That's 1,667 clients per advisor.
https://reports.adviserinfo.sec.gov/rep ... 166311.pdf

At 1,667 clients per advisor, after accounting for other various work that an advisor has to do (e.g., continuing education and training), that would mean each client, on average, is getting probably a bit less than an hour of an advisor's time per year -- plus about the same amount of time from a non-advisor employee.

There are a lot of Bogleheads who are happy with PlanVision. I'm happy that they exist. And I think highly of the people I know who work for PlanVision. But it's important for people to have reasonable expectations of what they can provide given the number of clients they're servicing.
ObliviousInvestor wrote: Fri Jan 31, 2025 8:54 am To be clear, I'm not asserting that I expect PlanVision to go away. I'm just asserting that people considering their service should expect to receive a little less than one hour of an advisor's time per year. And that's just based on the firm's own reporting and simple arithmetic (either of which anybody is welcome to check).

For enthusiastic DIYers, that may be a great fit. For people who want more assistance, it's not going to be a great fit. Neither is wrong. It's just important for people to understand what they want and have reasonable expectations about what they're likely to receive from any given firm before hiring them.
Just elaborating on this because I have a bit of time waiting for a CPE class to start. I think many Bogleheads don't realize a) how many clients PlanVision is servicing nor b) what a typical number of clients is per advisor.

For comparison, Timothy Financial is a well respected hourly firm -- about as "mainstream" as anybody could be in the hourly space. Per their latest Form ADV, there were 18 advisors, no non-advisor employees, and 660 clients. Or 37 clients per advisor.
https://reports.adviserinfo.sec.gov/rep ... 123037.pdf

When listening to a Kitces podcast with Eric Simonson (the founder of Abundo), I remember exclaiming out loud to myself when Simonson indicated that they have 70-90 clients per advisor, because that number seemed high, espcially given that he mentioned that each person on the team has some other role (e.g., bookkeeping, compliance). And just to confirm, per their latest Form ADV (below), there were 8 advisors, no non-advisor employees, and 700 clients. Or 87 clients per advisor.
https://reports.adviserinfo.sec.gov/rep ... 304612.pdf

PlanVision, at 1,667 clients per advisor (or 833 clients per employee) isn't just "more clients than typical." It's in an entirely different galaxy. That could be a good fit or a bad fit for any given person, but it's important to understand that what they're doing is a completely different thing than what most advisory practices are doing.
Last edited by ObliviousInvestor on Mon Feb 03, 2025 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
Mike Piper | Roth is a name, not an acronym. If you type ROTH, you're just yelling about retirement accounts.
Post Reply