Called to the Principals office [401(k) investment choices questioned]
Called to the Principals office [401(k) investment choices questioned]
My company's 401k administrator/financial advisor called me to express concern over my investment choices in the 401k. I have a lot in Fidelity Advisor A. He wondered if I checked my account (!) and was aware that when interest rates rise bond funds lose value. I agreed to meet with him on Monday when he is on site at my company.
My overall investment goals are 65% stocks 35% bonds which I think is pretty aggressive for a 58 year old. What the advisor does not know is that my 401k is a very small part of my overall portfolio (401k is 7% of total portfolio). I don't have a lot of tax deferred space.
I have added some nominal treasury bonds to my portfolio as interest rates have risen, but I do like the simplicity of the total bond fund.
Currently my total portfolio is 67.4 % stocks, 20.3% Vanguard total bond and the Fidelity Advisor A fund, and 8.34% Treasury bills, notes, I-bonds and CDs. About 4% is in Vanguard federal money market VMFXX because a treasury bill recently reached maturity and I have not reinvested yet. I planned to do some treasury notes and some more total bond fund (this will horrify him). Yes that is sort of a lot to have not invested, but it's been less than a month and the VMFXX is yielding over 5%.
My 401k as a percentage of total portfolio:
Fidelity Advisor Bond A: 5.89%
500 Index: 1.13%
new investments into 401k are going 80% 500 index, 20% bond. these are the lowest fee options in the 401k.
I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
My overall investment goals are 65% stocks 35% bonds which I think is pretty aggressive for a 58 year old. What the advisor does not know is that my 401k is a very small part of my overall portfolio (401k is 7% of total portfolio). I don't have a lot of tax deferred space.
I have added some nominal treasury bonds to my portfolio as interest rates have risen, but I do like the simplicity of the total bond fund.
Currently my total portfolio is 67.4 % stocks, 20.3% Vanguard total bond and the Fidelity Advisor A fund, and 8.34% Treasury bills, notes, I-bonds and CDs. About 4% is in Vanguard federal money market VMFXX because a treasury bill recently reached maturity and I have not reinvested yet. I planned to do some treasury notes and some more total bond fund (this will horrify him). Yes that is sort of a lot to have not invested, but it's been less than a month and the VMFXX is yielding over 5%.
My 401k as a percentage of total portfolio:
Fidelity Advisor Bond A: 5.89%
500 Index: 1.13%
new investments into 401k are going 80% 500 index, 20% bond. these are the lowest fee options in the 401k.
I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
Re: Called to the Principals office
Sounds to me like you are quite aware of your financial situation and very deliberate in your actions. Why are you taking the time to meet with the 401k administrator?
Steve
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Re: Called to the Principals office
I would respond with an email (no spreadsheets or statements from Vanguard) and just say, "Thank you for your concern. I maintain a diverse balanced portfolio across multiple accounts, and you only see a small percentage of that. I'll let you know if I need anything in the future."beachmom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
Backtests without cash flows are meaningless. Returns without dividends are lies.
Re: Called to the Principals office
Interesting that this is being done, I don't know whether having 401K plan administrators make calls like this is helpful or invasive. You'd have to decide which approach is right for you. If you have a high expense 401k plan you might be paying for this service indirectly. Your employer could be thinking this relationship is helpful to you. Or your employer's attorneys could be taking an extreme view that engagement like this are necessary to ensure they are properly executing their fiduciary duties (and protect from lawsuits by participants who make their decisions then blame the employer for not letting them know they had made a risky decision).
He only has knowledge of 7% of your assets in the 401K. I'd just politely tell him "got it under control, thanks for checking in but help not needed at this time" unless you want to discuss everything with him. If he knew your current portfolio was actually 67% equities due to the outside accounts he doesn't know about he would not feel the need to talk to you about your 401k holdings.
He only has knowledge of 7% of your assets in the 401K. I'd just politely tell him "got it under control, thanks for checking in but help not needed at this time" unless you want to discuss everything with him. If he knew your current portfolio was actually 67% equities due to the outside accounts he doesn't know about he would not feel the need to talk to you about your 401k holdings.
Re: Called to the Principals office
Pretty wild, maybe you are at a very small company with small 401K? My company isn't huge but the idea that anyone would even notice my portfolio, let alone put in the time to contact me about it, is unthinkable. Sure the actual 401K company sends emails and popups all the time asking if I want professional advice, but that sounds rather different.
70% Global Stocks / 30% Bonds
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Re: Called to the Principals office
I tend to agree with toddthebod. Once you let this person know that the 401k in question is only 7% of your total portfolio, I presume the concern will subside. But, even if concerns still exist, I'm not sure you need to be showing statements from other accounts and the like.
This might be some sort of fishing expedition (i.e. sales opportunity) by the adviser. I'd listen, and if asked, you can describe your low-cost index portfolio. I'm just not sure proving your case is required.
Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
Re: Called to the Principals office
Ha. That advisor, wherever he comes from will now have open season on trying to get his hands on the other 93% of your money.retired@50 wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:43 amI tend to agree with toddthebod. Once you let this person know that the 401k in question is only 7% of your total portfolio, I presume the concern will subside. But, even if concerns still exist, I'm not sure you need to be showing statements from other accounts and the like.
This might be some sort of fishing expedition (i.e. sales opportunity) by the adviser. I'd listen, and if asked, you can describe your low-cost index portfolio. I'm just not sure proving your case is required.
Regards,
I see no incentive to do anything except politely decline to meet.
Re: Called to the Principals office
I've never heard of a 401(k) administrator calling a plan participant. Is this a financial adviser with whom your company has a relationship? If so, there's really no need to talk with this person.
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Re: Called to the Principals office
+1.toddthebod wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:33 amI would respond with an email (no spreadsheets or statements from Vanguard) and just say, "Thank you for your concern. I maintain a diverse balanced portfolio across multiple accounts, and you only see a small percentage of that. I'll let you know if I need anything in the future."beachmom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
OP: The above is great advice. Respond via email. No meeting. You might want to also add a statement that you are an active participant on the bogleheads forum. He'll know what that is and what it means.
It is not worth your time to educate this advisor. You are doing great staying the course. Just note that if you divulge that you have other assets, the advisor may change tactics and start trying to upsell you on all sorts of financial products.
You are not off-base.
Re: Called to the Principals office
Investment philosophy and approach is highly personal and it seems you are actively engaged in managing your finances. Unless you are paying someone for active management, I would politely tell them to take a hike....maybe not so politely.
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Re: Called to the Principals office
One would hope that an adviser would know about the Bogleheads forum, but I dare say, there are probably quite a few without a clue.WillRetire wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:47 am ... You might want to also add a statement that you are an active participant on the bogleheads forum. He'll know what that is and what it means.
Everyone of my friends and acquaintances I've told about this forum were completely unaware beforehand.
Regards,
Last edited by retired@50 on Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Called to the Principals office
Agree completely.z3r0c00l wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:40 am Pretty wild, maybe you are at a very small company with small 401K? My company isn't huge but the idea that anyone would even notice my portfolio, let alone put in the time to contact me about it, is unthinkable. Sure the actual 401K company sends emails and popups all the time asking if I want professional advice, but that sounds rather different.
Re: Called to the Principals office
This is weird.beachmom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am My company's 401k administrator/financial advisor called me to express concern over my investment choices in the 401k. I have a lot in Fidelity Advisor A. He wondered if I checked my account (!) and was aware that when interest rates rise bond funds lose value. I agreed to meet with him on Monday when he is on site at my company.
My overall investment goals are 65% stocks 35% bonds which I think is pretty aggressive for a 58 year old. What the advisor does not know is that my 401k is a very small part of my overall portfolio (401k is 7% of total portfolio). I don't have a lot of tax deferred space.
I have added some nominal treasury bonds to my portfolio as interest rates have risen, but I do like the simplicity of the total bond fund.
Currently my total portfolio is 67.4 % stocks, 20.3% Vanguard total bond and the Fidelity Advisor A fund, and 8.34% Treasury bills, notes, I-bonds and CDs. About 4% is in Vanguard federal money market VMFXX because a treasury bill recently reached maturity and I have not reinvested yet. I planned to do some treasury notes and some more total bond fund (this will horrify him). Yes that is sort of a lot to have not invested, but it's been less than a month and the VMFXX is yielding over 5%.
My 401k as a percentage of total portfolio:
Fidelity Advisor Bond A: 5.89%
500 Index: 1.13%
new investments into 401k are going 80% 500 index, 20% bond. these are the lowest fee options in the 401k.
I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
I've never heard of a 401k administrator telling people what to invest in.
It seems inappropriate.
65% Global Market Stocks | 31% Global Market Credit | 4% Global Market Weight Gold, Crypto || LMP TIPS
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Re: Called to the Principals office
Do not assume that others know more than you do about investing, regardless of their title/position/necktie/fancy car/etc.
It's fairly common for my brokerage or my bank to call me (I see it on caller ID) whenever I move large sums of money to/from them via online tools.
I feel sure some FA sees an opportunity to 'help' me manage my finances with one of their 'low-fee' offerings, thus the phone calls.
I never pick up the phone.
It's fairly common for my brokerage or my bank to call me (I see it on caller ID) whenever I move large sums of money to/from them via online tools.
I feel sure some FA sees an opportunity to 'help' me manage my finances with one of their 'low-fee' offerings, thus the phone calls.
I never pick up the phone.
Early-retired, age < 59.5, AA ~60/40. Roth IRA, taxable and HSA all 100% equities. 100% fixed income in tax-deferred, plus some spillover equities. Spend from taxable and re-balance in tax-deferred.
Re: Called to the Principals office
I’d be interested to know if any men who were investing similarly were contacted by this administrator.
I’d semi-politely tell him that I have things under control. You don’t owe him any explanations.
I’d semi-politely tell him that I have things under control. You don’t owe him any explanations.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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Re: Called to the Principals office
What struck me was why someone was looking at your investments. I've been retired a long time, so perhaps this is the norm or permission was granted. As noted above, decline; the advisor has most likely had professional sales training. If going, have them backtest their recommendations.
Last edited by Mr. Rumples on Sat Nov 18, 2023 9:06 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Called to the Principals office
+1.watchnerd wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:54 amThis is weird.beachmom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am My company's 401k administrator/financial advisor called me to express concern over my investment choices in the 401k. I have a lot in Fidelity Advisor A. He wondered if I checked my account (!) and was aware that when interest rates rise bond funds lose value. I agreed to meet with him on Monday when he is on site at my company.
My overall investment goals are 65% stocks 35% bonds which I think is pretty aggressive for a 58 year old. What the advisor does not know is that my 401k is a very small part of my overall portfolio (401k is 7% of total portfolio). I don't have a lot of tax deferred space.
I have added some nominal treasury bonds to my portfolio as interest rates have risen, but I do like the simplicity of the total bond fund.
Currently my total portfolio is 67.4 % stocks, 20.3% Vanguard total bond and the Fidelity Advisor A fund, and 8.34% Treasury bills, notes, I-bonds and CDs. About 4% is in Vanguard federal money market VMFXX because a treasury bill recently reached maturity and I have not reinvested yet. I planned to do some treasury notes and some more total bond fund (this will horrify him). Yes that is sort of a lot to have not invested, but it's been less than a month and the VMFXX is yielding over 5%.
My 401k as a percentage of total portfolio:
Fidelity Advisor Bond A: 5.89%
500 Index: 1.13%
new investments into 401k are going 80% 500 index, 20% bond. these are the lowest fee options in the 401k.
I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
I've never heard of a 401k administrator telling people what to invest in.
It seems inappropriate.
It is none of their business as long as you are aware of your financial picture and you are comfortable with your AA and choice of funds.
I would consider this an unsolicited intrusion by an employer into my finances. It is just me. I would politely decline the meeting. YMMV.
Re: Called to the Principals office
Stick with toddthebod's advice.
I think you are already thinking right.
If pushed, I would ask the administrator to bring their net worth statement, explain their investments, and defend their choices.
PS - I agree with your overall asset allocation and I am very close to you in both age & allocation
I think you are already thinking right.
If pushed, I would ask the administrator to bring their net worth statement, explain their investments, and defend their choices.
PS - I agree with your overall asset allocation and I am very close to you in both age & allocation
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Re: Called to the Principals office
My wife's 401k was administered by Fidelity. Our FA/Account Rep/Whatever there called us, I took the call (as an authorized agent of hers). He mentioned that our portfolio was overly conservative at 100% bonds; I told him that we are DIY investors and that we have other accounts elsewhere that are 100% equities and thanks/nothanks for helping us out. They send an email annually offering their services; I just ignore it.
No fuss, no muss, no worries.
No fuss, no muss, no worries.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
Re: Called to the Principals office
it may be a good thing for employers to look out for their employees, who may have suffered losses, to maybe educate them. In your case, it is irrelevant due to your portfolio overall. i have colleagues who have made unwise choices in their retirement accts, and a "touch base" might have helped them. I would say that you are comfortable where you are.
Re: Called to the Principals office
Maybe some of the confusion is with use of the term 401k administrator. Note OP said 401k administrator/financial advisor. I would guess this financial adviser is an employee of Fidelity, TIAA, Prudential or whoever the 401k plan is with whose job is to work the employee’s of company X. Have received similar contact from these type of individuals over the years. Either my spouse or I probably get a call every other year and about half the time it includes specific information about the investments or time frame.
No need to bring statements from external accounts. Good chance they will not be allowed to comment on them. No need to justify other than to state that this is not reflective of your overall investments. If you have time, you can meet. Maybe you will learn about something useful. If you are very busy or hate that type of thing, then decline.
No need to bring statements from external accounts. Good chance they will not be allowed to comment on them. No need to justify other than to state that this is not reflective of your overall investments. If you have time, you can meet. Maybe you will learn about something useful. If you are very busy or hate that type of thing, then decline.
Re: Called to the Principals office
This is one more reason I never answer my phone.
I’ll pile on and agree with saying almost nothing except “thanks, but no thanks, I am comfortable with my portfolio.”
I’ll pile on and agree with saying almost nothing except “thanks, but no thanks, I am comfortable with my portfolio.”
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Re: Called to the Principals office
Printing out that stuff and engaging with him is exactly what he's hoping you will do.beachmom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am
I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, EV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
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Re: Called to the Principals office
I would cancel the meeting and completely ignore any additional inquiries. People are typically this "helpful" when they see a commission.
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Re: Called to the Principals office
I think it is "out of line" for the advisor to approach you in this way, imo. The title is correct, it is almost like you're being called into the Principal's office for doing something wrong. I'm guessing there is some angle this person is working where they want to be your advisor.
I would tell them "thanks but no thanks" and not meet with them. I absolutely would NOT tell them your overall net worth or portfolio or that you have a lot of money elsewhere. I could see that putting more blood in the water and/or even causing issues at work if you want that to remain private. One of my friends was at a firm and the owner/partner had a really chummy relationship with the person that filled FA role at the workplace, and I just think you would want some level of privacy because it was almost guaranteed that would "get out" at his office.
I would tell them "thanks but no thanks" and not meet with them. I absolutely would NOT tell them your overall net worth or portfolio or that you have a lot of money elsewhere. I could see that putting more blood in the water and/or even causing issues at work if you want that to remain private. One of my friends was at a firm and the owner/partner had a really chummy relationship with the person that filled FA role at the workplace, and I just think you would want some level of privacy because it was almost guaranteed that would "get out" at his office.
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Re: Called to the Principals office
One more opinion to ignore this. At most, tell them you are happy with your choices. Or just cancel the meeting and don't tell them anything. Do not share any more information.
Re: Called to the Principals office
If you still intend to meet or engage in conversation with this person in any way please supply more information.
- is this person an administrator?
- is this person an advisor?
- is this person a 3rd party fiduciary advisor paid for by the retirement plan/comittee?
You should already have a copy of your current total plan from your company, often you can access this online as well. If not, it is also required to have a complete copy located in a readily accessable place on site at the company (where you can look this up).
- is this person an administrator?
- is this person an advisor?
- is this person a 3rd party fiduciary advisor paid for by the retirement plan/comittee?
You should already have a copy of your current total plan from your company, often you can access this online as well. If not, it is also required to have a complete copy located in a readily accessable place on site at the company (where you can look this up).
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Re: Called to the Principals office
Very much not the administrator’s business. Just thank him but say you are fully aware and appreciate the concern.toddthebod wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:33 amI would respond with an email (no spreadsheets or statements from Vanguard) and just say, "Thank you for your concern. I maintain a diverse balanced portfolio across multiple accounts, and you only see a small percentage of that. I'll let you know if I need anything in the future."beachmom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
Re: Called to the Principals office
I vote with a polite cancellation of the meeting. If you meet with him and then show him the total picture, he isn't going to understand your reasoning. It's hard for a man to understand something when understanding it will cost him money.
Don't gamble; take all your savings and buy some good stock and hold it till it goes up, then sell it. If it don't go up, don't buy it. - Will Rogers
Re: Called to the Principals office
Very strange...Thanks all set would be my response you seem to have this well in hand. But if you're looking to kill an hour or two go for it 

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Re: Called to the Principals office
I agree here. I think it’s completely inappropriate for your employer to ever give financial advice, under any circumstances. And it’s also inappropriate for your plan administrator to offer any unsolicited financial advice. If you imitated a talk with them, it would be different.AnnetteLouisan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:09 amVery much not the administrator’s business. Just thank him but say you are fully aware and appreciate the concern.toddthebod wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:33 amI would respond with an email (no spreadsheets or statements from Vanguard) and just say, "Thank you for your concern. I maintain a diverse balanced portfolio across multiple accounts, and you only see a small percentage of that. I'll let you know if I need anything in the future."beachmom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
It’s not the administrators job to offer any financial planning advice. They should tell you how the plan works and what the options and deadlines are, etc. but shouldn’t say a peep about what employees do with their money.
Some employers do make outside financial advice available to employees. But these aren’t the plan administrators. And these people have always felt “sleazy” to me, more sales people than advisors. I wonder if this is really who called you, and is either misrepresenting who they are or just letting you incorrectly assume it.
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Re: Called to the Principals office
My strong and sincere recommendation is to cancel this meeting. You don’t owe them an explanation for your investing choices, you don’t need to justify anything, and you certainly don’t need to show them what you’re doing outside of the workplace accounts.beachmom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am My company's 401k administrator/financial advisor called me to express concern over my investment choices in the 401k. I have a lot in Fidelity Advisor A. He wondered if I checked my account (!) and was aware that when interest rates rise bond funds lose value. I agreed to meet with him on Monday when he is on site at my company.
…
I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
Best case scenario is that they are sincerely trying to help you, but instead, you spent your time helping them by reassuring them you’re okay. More likely outcome is they’ll push an advisory service.
Re: Called to the Principals office
Perfectly said. You don’t need to explain or justify anything, to anybody, for any reason.Doctor Rhythm wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:03 amMy strong and sincere recommendation is to cancel this meeting. You don’t owe them an explanation for your investing choices, you don’t need to justify anything, and you certainly don’t need to show them what you’re doing outside of the workplace accounts.beachmom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am My company's 401k administrator/financial advisor called me to express concern over my investment choices in the 401k. I have a lot in Fidelity Advisor A. He wondered if I checked my account (!) and was aware that when interest rates rise bond funds lose value. I agreed to meet with him on Monday when he is on site at my company.
…
I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
Best case scenario is that they are sincerely trying to help you, but instead, you spent your time helping them by reassuring them you’re okay. More likely outcome is they’ll push an advisory service.
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Re: Called to the Principals office
It’s a sales meeting and you should treat it as such in deciding whether to go.
My first question to him would be why he is giving you this sage advice AFTER a dramatic rise in interest rates. The time for this phone call was in early 2022.
My first question to him would be why he is giving you this sage advice AFTER a dramatic rise in interest rates. The time for this phone call was in early 2022.
Re: Called to the Principals office
If this is a sales meeting after someone reviewed a personal account there could be more trouble brewing - you need to identify the players before you plan your response(s) if any.lazynovice wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:10 am It’s a sales meeting and you should treat it as such in deciding whether to go.
My first question to him would be why he is giving you this sage advice AFTER a dramatic rise in interest rates. The time for this phone call was in early 2022.
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Re: Called to the Principals office
Complete waste of time. I accepted a similar invite from our 401K advisor/salesperson. She was woefully unprepared for the meeting in spite of the fact that I had corresponded with her in advance to make sure she had reviewed my complete situation, since all of my accounts are entered into Fidelity "Full View". Her knowledge of investing was rudimentary at best. I recommended Bogleheads and Bernstein's "Four Pillars" to her.beachmom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am My company's 401k administrator/financial advisor called me to express concern over my investment choices in the 401k. I have a lot in Fidelity Advisor A. He wondered if I checked my account (!) and was aware that when interest rates rise bond funds lose value. I agreed to meet with him on Monday when he is on site at my company.
My overall investment goals are 65% stocks 35% bonds which I think is pretty aggressive for a 58 year old. What the advisor does not know is that my 401k is a very small part of my overall portfolio (401k is 7% of total portfolio). ....
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Re: Called to the Principals office
AnnetteLouisan wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 10:09 amVery much not the administrator’s business. Just thank him but say you are fully aware and appreciate the concern.toddthebod wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:33 amI would respond with an email (no spreadsheets or statements from Vanguard) and just say, "Thank you for your concern. I maintain a diverse balanced portfolio across multiple accounts, and you only see a small percentage of that. I'll let you know if I need anything in the future."beachmom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
Totally agree with this and all the other great advice you have gotten here.
Your holdings and investment positions are your business - not his. No spreadsheets! No statements!
Is he asking to meet with your male colleagues too? Or does he just think that women's investing needs to be justified and monitored and possibly "improved" ...

Given the title you put on this thread, you are obviously not comfortable with this fellow contacting you. Rightfully, as it sounds like he is WAY out of line!
Has he broken some rules of confidentiality? This sounds very fishy to me, that he's criticizing your choices that closely or questioning them at all!
Re: Called to the Principals office
People are getting hung up on "administrator"; who is that? A company like Fidelity or ... ? And I think they're getting hung up by nuances in how you described the sales pitch for the meeting. Lots of us have had a planner from an employer plan provider ask for a meeting. Nobody knows you're a Boglehead and maybe it would help some people who might not understand what they're doing. I'm guessing that officially or unofficially your company is paying you to spend this time with this person, and, well, it's a holiday week, so... sure, why not meet, just for something different to do. Bogleheads spend a huge chunk of their lives chatting about finances here, and you've got an opportunity to talk with an actual live person vs. trying to explain your spreadsheets to your dog the way you usually do (because the dog is the only one who'll listen.) Maybe you'll even come away with an awesome pen or something.beachmom wrote: ↑Sat Nov 18, 2023 8:28 am My company's 401k administrator/financial advisor called me to express concern over my investment choices in the 401k. I have a lot in Fidelity Advisor A. He wondered if I checked my account (!) and was aware that when interest rates rise bond funds lose value. I agreed to meet with him on Monday when he is on site at my company.
My overall investment goals are 65% stocks 35% bonds which I think is pretty aggressive for a 58 year old. What the advisor does not know is that my 401k is a very small part of my overall portfolio (401k is 7% of total portfolio). I don't have a lot of tax deferred space.
I have added some nominal treasury bonds to my portfolio as interest rates have risen, but I do like the simplicity of the total bond fund.
Currently my total portfolio is 67.4 % stocks, 20.3% Vanguard total bond and the Fidelity Advisor A fund, and 8.34% Treasury bills, notes, I-bonds and CDs. About 4% is in Vanguard federal money market VMFXX because a treasury bill recently reached maturity and I have not reinvested yet. I planned to do some treasury notes and some more total bond fund (this will horrify him). Yes that is sort of a lot to have not invested, but it's been less than a month and the VMFXX is yielding over 5%.
My 401k as a percentage of total portfolio:
Fidelity Advisor Bond A: 5.89%
500 Index: 1.13%
new investments into 401k are going 80% 500 index, 20% bond. these are the lowest fee options in the 401k.
I planned to print out my Vanguard statement and Excel sheets and just tell him I am comfortable with my current investment selections in my 401k.
Is the 401k advisor's concern a legitimate reason to question my investment policy statement/choices? Am I off-base?
Years ago your allocation would have been aggressive. Today it's like you're previewing being age 105. I'm previewing about 125 myself.
Re: Called to the Principals office
To all those of you calling this out as inappropriate:
If we assume this person is not an employee of the OP’s company. We assume that this person is employed by the record keeper, e.g. Fidelity. Would you still consider it unusual? Like Tibbetts, I am aware of many of us who have had a planner from the employer’s retirement plan reach out.
My spouse and I have had retirement plans with three employers and 5 record keepers. I just got an email a couple weeks ago telling me that one of my plans could be too aggressive and high risk for someone my age and giving me a number to call if I wanted to discuss. We have previously received phone calls. My town has a large university. TIAA opened an office about 15 years ago with 3 CFPs. It was actually a requirement imposed by the university at the time they were redesigning the plan and entering into a new contract. My spouse is contacted by phone every couple years. About half the time the message includes something similar that received by the OP. Now if someone in HR was commenting on the choice of investments, that would be very concerning.
If we assume this person is not an employee of the OP’s company. We assume that this person is employed by the record keeper, e.g. Fidelity. Would you still consider it unusual? Like Tibbetts, I am aware of many of us who have had a planner from the employer’s retirement plan reach out.
My spouse and I have had retirement plans with three employers and 5 record keepers. I just got an email a couple weeks ago telling me that one of my plans could be too aggressive and high risk for someone my age and giving me a number to call if I wanted to discuss. We have previously received phone calls. My town has a large university. TIAA opened an office about 15 years ago with 3 CFPs. It was actually a requirement imposed by the university at the time they were redesigning the plan and entering into a new contract. My spouse is contacted by phone every couple years. About half the time the message includes something similar that received by the OP. Now if someone in HR was commenting on the choice of investments, that would be very concerning.
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Re: Called to the Principals office
We get this all the time when are forced to call Fidelity in order to roll after-tax 401k contributions out to a Roth IRA. My wife's 401k does not allow for different investment based on different sources (pre-tax or after-tax).
There is a very sizable balance in her 401k that is 100% bonds. It represents a small portion of our net worth and a small fraction of our allocation to bonds based on our desired AA. The reps at Fidelity always feel compelled to bring up the "overly conservative" investment choices we have made in her 401k, but quickly gets it when we explain that the account is a small fraction of our investments and asset allocation.
Most investors are unfortunately financially illiterate and also forego opportunities to save for the future (retirement). The reps are just trying to be helpful.
There is a very sizable balance in her 401k that is 100% bonds. It represents a small portion of our net worth and a small fraction of our allocation to bonds based on our desired AA. The reps at Fidelity always feel compelled to bring up the "overly conservative" investment choices we have made in her 401k, but quickly gets it when we explain that the account is a small fraction of our investments and asset allocation.
Most investors are unfortunately financially illiterate and also forego opportunities to save for the future (retirement). The reps are just trying to be helpful.
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Re: Called to the Principals office
Our 401k admins are always pushing these in person meetings - supposedly for our benefit. I never ever go. They always pop up when the market takes a dive and they need more people to put in more money for their paychecks.
They are sales people, the 401k options are subpar to plain old vanguard funds with higher expense ratio - those expense ratios are paying for this advisor to look at your account and try to meddle.
Why reward that activity?
They are sales people, the 401k options are subpar to plain old vanguard funds with higher expense ratio - those expense ratios are paying for this advisor to look at your account and try to meddle.
Why reward that activity?
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Re: Called to the Principals office
It’s just a routine sales call. Fidelity does this all the time. Nothing to take offense at. Just recognize it for what it is. They want you to pay them to manage your money. Simple as that. OP clearly does not need the service.
Re: Called to the Principals office
My company's 401k administrator/financial advisor called me to express concern over my investment choices in the 401k.
It's a sales call disguised as something else. So treat it as such and take or leave it based on YOUR needs.
It's a sales call disguised as something else. So treat it as such and take or leave it based on YOUR needs.
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
Re: Called to the Principals office
I suspect it's some flavor of a sales call.
The gambit could be to have you roll out into a Fidelity IRA or annuity. You're coincidentally near that golden age of 59 when you could make that change.
Always stay dubious when financial advisors call to "help" you.
The gambit could be to have you roll out into a Fidelity IRA or annuity. You're coincidentally near that golden age of 59 when you could make that change.
Always stay dubious when financial advisors call to "help" you.
Re: Called to the Principals office
I agree with Katie above. I'm on my 401k committee. My company has an outside firm acting as a fiduciary. They get paid directly and not from 12b-1 fees. We have a mix of Fidelity index funds and some actively managed ones.
Nearly everyone on this board overestimates the average person's investment knowledge. People panic and do stupid things all of the time. Part of their function is to help people navigate the crazy world of investing, where every TV show and YouTube channel gives terrible advice, not to mention nonsense coming from friends and family members.
I wouldn't ascribe malice when there's a much simpler explanation.
Re: Called to the Principals office
I agree with limiting what you share to the specific 401k.
However, I used this type of meeting to establish a dialog with the 401K administrator that I then subsequently leveraged to request changes to funds, fees, etc. to improve the benefit of the 401k plan over the years. Of course these were likewise sent up the chain of command through the GM to the CFO, but it did result in positive changes over time.
However, I used this type of meeting to establish a dialog with the 401K administrator that I then subsequently leveraged to request changes to funds, fees, etc. to improve the benefit of the 401k plan over the years. Of course these were likewise sent up the chain of command through the GM to the CFO, but it did result in positive changes over time.
"Better is the enemy of good." Good is good.
Re: Called to the Principals office
Let's frame it this way:
If OP was male, not posting on Bogleheads, and in fact only had the one 401K account with a total bond fund in it, would we expect a fiduciary agent to reach out to a plan participant to say "we noticed your asset allocation is not would typically be recommended for someone of your age, can we discuss with you?"
I think some folks are expecting the plan sponsor and administrator to be mind readers. OP or the employer is paying for this service in some way, whether through fees or expense ratios. The advisor is not a volunteer working without pay.
Her employer's attorneys might even have decided it was best to offer this type of advisory service to avoid any ERISA law suits. Employee could claim that the sponsor and administrator knew employee had an inappropriate asset allocation yet did nothing to advise employee. That's likely a risk adverse position but a protective employer very well could take that position as ERISA CYA.
If OP was male, not posting on Bogleheads, and in fact only had the one 401K account with a total bond fund in it, would we expect a fiduciary agent to reach out to a plan participant to say "we noticed your asset allocation is not would typically be recommended for someone of your age, can we discuss with you?"
I think some folks are expecting the plan sponsor and administrator to be mind readers. OP or the employer is paying for this service in some way, whether through fees or expense ratios. The advisor is not a volunteer working without pay.
Her employer's attorneys might even have decided it was best to offer this type of advisory service to avoid any ERISA law suits. Employee could claim that the sponsor and administrator knew employee had an inappropriate asset allocation yet did nothing to advise employee. That's likely a risk adverse position but a protective employer very well could take that position as ERISA CYA.
Re: Called to the Principals office
I disagree with giving them percentages - none of their business. Nothing good comes from someone like this knowing your real investment balance's. I'd fob them off saying it's under control, thanks for the heads up and I was aware of what is happening etc.
Edit: Typo
Edit: Typo
Last edited by rob on Sat Nov 18, 2023 1:14 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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