Who has a financial advisor/planner and why?

[MrCheapo]

I've always self-managed my own money. My reasoning is that someone getting paid a fixed fee won't have the same interest as I do and it seems reasonable to self managed with Vanguard broad based index funds.

But lots of people seem to have financial advisors/planners. To be clear, I'm talking about credible ones that add real value not Edward Jones or ones that charge you AUM percentage fees.

So why do you do it? For investment guidance? For taxation advice? For withdrawl practices? Something else?

I'm also curious what is the material advantage you get out it? For example, if you use them for investment guidance, how much extra percent yield do feel they get you?

[stan1]

It's a personal decision. You have to decide what value you get. It would be difficult to quantify value.

Some examples that may or may not apply to you:
- Avoid behavioral mistakes, such as selling equities at a market bottom, going all cash, then trying to figure out how to buy back in to equities
- Don't want to feel responsible for making a mistake with such a large decision
- Don't want to spend time on it
- Want someone to talk to about issues like retirement, college funding, buying a second home
- Heirs don't want to self-manage a portfolio. This may be a function of your age and health

People are different. On this forum some Bogleheads assume everyone is just like them, or should be just like them, or could be just like them if they buckle down and put their mind to it. We all know many exceptions to that. It's not realistic to assume 100% of the population can function like a DIY Boglehead.

[JayDee37]

For many Boglehead-style investors (simple portfolios of broad index funds, buy-and-hold, interest and inclination to learn about personal finance, etc), I agree that there may not be much need for an advisor to manage their portfolios. But, just like with risk tolerance, "need, ability, and willingness" to self-manage vary.

Personally I worked with a financial planner earlier this year, not to provide any investment management or advice (I explicitly excluded these activities from her scope) but to help my fiancé and I plan for our joint financial future. DF and I are in our late forties, have five kids between us with three currently in college, and are bringing very different financial styles, histories, and current situations into our marriage. So we wanted a third party to look at both of our financial situations and provide some guidance about how to pay for college, pay down debt, and manage retirement savings as we start to think about combining households and finances. This was a specific project, though, and it was over once we developed the plans. I am continuing to manage my own portfolio and I don't see that changing given my current modest level of wealth. If I several million dollars of investable assets I might feel differently.

[gavinsiu]

Sometimes it's to protect our love ones. I signed my mom up for a financial advisor a while back. I was managing her portfolio. I tried to teach my mom the basics, but she doesn't want to learn, I decided to sign her to a trustworthy one in case I get hit by a bus. I notice that some members do the same because their spouse also don't feel like learning.

[Chardo]

The BH world is a tiny subset of the population. Most people in the real world have no idea how to manage their finances, and either no time or no interest in learning how.

[secondopinion]

It's a personal decision. You have to decide what value you get. It would be difficult to quantify value.

Some examples that may or may not apply to you:
- Avoid behavioral mistakes, such as selling equities at a market bottom, going all cash, then trying to figure out how to buy back in to equities
- Don't want to feel responsible for making a mistake with such a large decision
- Don't want to spend time on it
- Want someone to talk to about issues like retirement, college funding, buying a second home
- Heirs don't want to self-manage a portfolio. This may be a function of your age and health

People are different. On this forum some Bogleheads assume everyone is just like them, or should be just like them, or could be just like them if they buckle down and put their mind to it. We all know many exceptions to that. It's not realistic to assume 100% of the population can function like a DIY Boglehead.

This is precisely why no one manages my money. I do not want to left in the position of pointing fingers if my portfolio falters.

[dbr]

I have known more than one person who has consulted a financial planner for help in deciding if they can retire. In that context they may be seeking advice regarding SS, how they should be invested, what their taxes might be, and so on. An end result is to understand how much they can afford to spend.

This is also the subject of many, many threads on this forum.

[HKexpat]

My (controversial?) take is that people could benefit from sophisticated advisers, but got turned off by those who just do the basics or try to push into actively managed funds.

For example, bogleheads with $250k+ in assets (to stay conservative) and emergency savings in cash could increase the risk-adjusted returns on their portfolio by getting rid of the cash emergency savings and relying on margin loans. If they have $40k in cash, they’re likely losing out on at least $2k in year one and it compounds from there.

Older boggleheads who are financing their retirement through sales but also are motivated to leave an estate for their descendants might similarly make a costly mistake. Since the cost basis of investments resets upon inheritance, it’s often advantageous to take margin loans instead of selling and paying capital gains taxes.

People who found companies and have shares that are difficult to price could move shares into Roth accounts at low valuations and benefit from tax-free gains when they go to market pricing.

The problem is that when people seek out an adviser, how do they know whether it’s an EJ-type salesperson, or someone with some insights on efficient tax management? You can’t outperform the market in expectations, but you can boost your performance by optimizing on taxes. Even simple things like which funds to hold in taxable vs retirement account is probably something many people get wrong, and where spending a few hundred dollars on a decent adviser would pay for itself quickly.

[MrCheapo]

The BH world is a tiny subset of the population. Most people in the real world have no idea how to manage their finances, and either no time or no interest in learning how.

Of course. This is why I'm asking why informed, smart, handsome (!) people get financial planners. Maybe I'm missing something.

[ruralavalon]

I've always self-managed my own money. My reasoning is that someone getting paid a fixed fee won't have the same interest as I do and it seems reasonable to self managed with Vanguard broad based index funds.

But lots of people seem to have financial advisors/planners. To be clear, I'm talking about credible ones that add real value not Edward Jones or ones that charge you AUM percentage fees.

So why do you do it? For investment guidance? For taxation advice? For withdrawl practices? Something else?

I'm also curious what is the material advantage you get out it? For example, if you use them for investment guidance, how much extra percent yield do feel they get you?

We used a fee-only planner, for a fixed fee, when we first switched from a "full service" brokerage to managing our own investments, just to set up the initial plan.

Then again a couple of years later for a one-time checkup.

Since then I have always managed our investments without paid help.

I still use a CPA/tax attorney for tax advice.

[MrCheapo]

So how did he/she help you

I've always self-managed my own money. My reasoning is that someone getting paid a fixed fee won't have the same interest as I do and it seems reasonable to self managed with Vanguard broad based index funds.

But lots of people seem to have financial advisors/planners. To be clear, I'm talking about credible ones that add real value not Edward Jones or ones that charge you AUM percentage fees.

So why do you do it? For investment guidance? For taxation advice? For withdrawl practices? Something else?

I'm also curious what is the material advantage you get out it? For example, if you use them for investment guidance, how much extra percent yield do feel they get you?

We used a fee-only planner, for a fixed fee, when we first switched from a "full service" brokerage to managing our own investments, just to set up the initial plan.

Then again a couple of years later for a one-time checkup.

Since then I have always managed our investments without paid help.

[ruralavalon]

So how did he/she help you

I've always self-managed my own money. My reasoning is that someone getting paid a fixed fee won't have the same interest as I do and it seems reasonable to self managed with Vanguard broad based index funds.

But lots of people seem to have financial advisors/planners. To be clear, I'm talking about credible ones that add real value not Edward Jones or ones that charge you AUM percentage fees.

So why do you do it? For investment guidance? For taxation advice? For withdrawl practices? Something else?

I'm also curious what is the material advantage you get out it? For example, if you use them for investment guidance, how much extra percent yield do feel they get you?

We used a fee-only planner, for a fixed fee, when we first switched from a "full service" brokerage to managing our own investments, just to set up the initial plan.

Then again a couple of years later for a one-time checkup.

Since then I have always managed our investments without paid help.

She suggested index funds to use, asset allocation, and general financial planning.

[earlyout]

Mine is not an advisor/planner but an investment manager that believes in and follows BH's investment principles very closely. We work together to make infrequent investment decisions but the primary reason for the relationship is for continuity should I become incompetent or die. My heirs are not interested in having this responsibility and those responsible for managing my affairs will need assistance with closing my estate.

[vnatale]

The problem is that when people seek out an adviser, how do they know whether it’s an EJ-type salesperson, or someone with some insights on efficient tax management? You can’t outperform the market in expectations, but you can boost your performance by optimizing on taxes. Even simple things like which funds to hold in taxable vs retirement account is probably something many people get wrong, and where spending a few hundred dollars on a decent adviser would pay for itself quickly.

A decent one should cost more than a few hundred dollars.

[Vintage Tin]

I'm considering it now, though I've always managed my accounts without any help. Being too conservatively invested is probably my worst problem . My wife has no idea how to invest or manage money. It might be a good idea to have something set up in case I should die before her. That way she wont have that to worry about.

[Mando19]

I use a fee based planner with no AUM. I see them about every 18 months. They have helped me with allocation, IRMAA, Roth conversions, mortgages, estate planning,etc. in a concise way. Under 0.05% fee. Likely all of the information is available for a DIY Boglehead, but as a choose your own financial adventure.

[CookieDough]

I would hire a financial planner if my cognitive faculties started to decline significantly.

I'm comfortable managing my own portfolio, but I'm aware that it's a high-wire act that I learned through practice, trial, and error. I may not always have the skills necessary to avoid falling.

[BigPrince]

I will hire one for my mother if my father passes first - I want to avoid any perceived conflict of interest.

[Wiggums]

My neighbor consulted a financial planner because he wanted someone else to validate that he could safely retire at age 70.

When we retired, we closed a lot of accounts to make things easier to self manage. There is nothing wrong with getting a second opinion or using an all in one portfolio as long as you understand the pros and cons. St the end of the day, you are responsible gor your money even when you outsource the administration.

[MDfan]

The problem is that when people seek out an adviser, how do they know whether it’s an EJ-type salesperson, or someone with some insights on efficient tax management? You can’t outperform the market in expectations, but you can boost your performance by optimizing on taxes. Even simple things like which funds to hold in taxable vs retirement account is probably something many people get wrong, and where spending a few hundred dollars on a decent adviser would pay for itself quickly.

A decent one should cost more than a few hundred dollars.

We have found Mark Zoril and PlanVision to be very good. It's not all about how much someone costs. it's about the value they provide. And we are very satisfied with the value he has provided us as we head into retirement.

[stan1]

I will hire one for my mother if my father passes first - I want to avoid any perceived conflict of interest.

Perceived by whom? Siblings or other heirs who don't get along well? Most families would not see this as a necessary separation given that most children would want to see parents taken care of as well as possible and act in their best interests. But if you know your siblings and it would create problems then you may be right.

[passive101]

I have a robo advisor with Betterment. Without guide rails I let my emotions make changes or I hear something new on a podcast or YouTube and think those funds or plans are better and I should switch to them. I customized my AA with Betterment and now I'm sticking to my plan with less of their funds. It also makes it easy because I have 3 separate investment goals. I also like the charts graphs, auto rebalancing, TLH, and that it shows me tax costs when I do withdrawals and stuff. All of my investments are automatic between all 3 goals. I can also pay to talk to a fiduciary if I need a human.

It works for me and is helping me make the best decisions for the future

[David_w]

I do. I started out getting an AUM with Fidelity and JP Morgan Chase because at the time I knew I would be too worried about what to invest in and never do it (analysis paralysis). I didn't know about this forum, 3 fund portfolio or anything. That was 2013. Now, I am too entangled in Fidelity's tax sensitive SMA to get out. I was thinking that any additional investments in the market I can just open another investment account and duplicate what Chase does for me and avoid further fees.

[smitcat]

The BH world is a tiny subset of the population. Most people in the real world have no idea how to manage their finances, and either no time or no interest in learning how.

Of course. This is why I'm asking why informed, smart, handsome (!) people get financial planners. Maybe I'm missing something.

"Maybe I'm missing something"
Maybe and maybe not... I really do not know.
Perhaps read your last 100 post or so and ask yourself if this person would benifit from an advisor.

[MorgansRun]

I started using one at the very end of 2022 and am happy with that decision. Before that, I would constantly second guess myself with every new article/post/video i see. FOMO is real and even though I know I should stay the course, there are nights I would lose sleep. The 0.75% AUM fee is well worth it to me. That goes down to 0.50% when I hit the next AUM tier next year.

[vnatale]

I would hire a financial planner if my cognitive faculties started to decline significantly.

I'm comfortable managing my own portfolio, but I'm aware that it's a high-wire act that I learned through practice, trial, and error. I may not always have the skills necessary to avoid falling.

Seems good in theory, but what happens if our emotions are also starting to decline and we lose trust in others, have a difficult time giving up all the control we've maintained to that point of our lives?

[vnatale]

The problem is that when people seek out an adviser, how do they know whether it’s an EJ-type salesperson, or someone with some insights on efficient tax management? You can’t outperform the market in expectations, but you can boost your performance by optimizing on taxes. Even simple things like which funds to hold in taxable vs retirement account is probably something many people get wrong, and where spending a few hundred dollars on a decent adviser would pay for itself quickly.

A decent one should cost more than a few hundred dollars.

We have found Mark Zoril and PlanVision to be very good. It's not all about how much someone costs. it's about the value they provide. And we are very satisfied with the value he has provided us as we head into retirement.

Agree. However I question how much value you can get from someone who charges only $200? That is barely enough time to organize the information being provided to someone let along reviewing it, coming up with a plan, interacting with you.

[tibbitts]

I've always self-managed my own money. My reasoning is that someone getting paid a fixed fee won't have the same interest as I do and it seems reasonable to self managed with Vanguard broad based index funds.

Well, the "same interest" aspect is always an issue. Fixed fee implies that the adviser doesn't necessarily benefit when (as the advertisements say) "you do better." On the other hand, an AUM adviser benefits by encouraging you to take the maximum possible risk and never spend any of your money. I'm not sure how to resolve that.

An aspect of the forum is that most Bogleheads don't appreciate how much time and effort they put in over a period of time to develop some degree of comfort with self-management. So when you say "reasonable", it may depend on how you got to that point, and what your experience during that process was.

[tibbitts]

The problem is that when people seek out an adviser, how do they know whether it’s an EJ-type salesperson, or someone with some insights on efficient tax management? You can’t outperform the market in expectations, but you can boost your performance by optimizing on taxes. Even simple things like which funds to hold in taxable vs retirement account is probably something many people get wrong, and where spending a few hundred dollars on a decent adviser would pay for itself quickly.

A decent one should cost more than a few hundred dollars.

We have found Mark Zoril and PlanVision to be very good. It's not all about how much someone costs. it's about the value they provide. And we are very satisfied with the value he has provided us as we head into retirement.

Agree. However I question how much value you can get from someone who charges only $200? That is barely enough time to organize the information being provided to someone let along reviewing it, coming up with a plan, interacting with you.

An issue with $200 is that sometimes what matters is some detail buried in, for example, a thirty-page retirement plan description, and nobody is going to ferret that out for you for $200. On the other hand, a $20,000 adviser might not either.

[ruralavalon]

. . . . .

The problem is that when people seek out an adviser, how do they know whether it’s an EJ-type salesperson, or someone with some insights on efficient tax management? You can’t outperform the market in expectations, but you can boost your performance by optimizing on taxes. Even simple things like which funds to hold in taxable vs retirement account is probably something many people get wrong, and where spending a few hundred dollars on a decent adviser would pay for itself quickly.

Here are some ideas about how to find a decent advisor, https://investingroadmap.wordpress.com/ ... n-advisor/

"The great paradox of using an advisor is that you must know some basics in order to evaluate the advice, and once you do, you also know enough to consider doing your own management. If you have gotten this far through the primer, you are already a more knowledgeable investor."

[nedsaid]

I am using the Private Client Group at American Century, they are managing about 30% of my retirement portfolio. In the beginning, I got general retirement projections but about a year ago, they opened access to MoneyGuidePro to their clients. I go in and manually input data including all of my financial accounts, I am also putting in a detailed budget. So I am able to walk things through with the Advisor when I meet with him quarterly. He can run scenarios and reports for me. It is in more detail than before and I am happy with what I am getting. I now have a more realistic picture of what retirement will look like and I can have more accurate expectations.

What I am doing isn't the solution for everybody. I had looked for someone to partner with for years but everyone else I had talked to just wanted too much. Ameriprise did some good financial planning for me and I still have their printed plans, at the time I paid $500 per year and met with the advisor three times a year. Their Assets Under Management fee was 1.2% and the expense ratios of their funds averaged about 1%, so I just did the planning, otherwise my all-in costs would have been over 2.25% annually. The good folks at Merriman wanted 1% a year plus the 0.34% expense ratio of the DFA Funds.

American Century charges 0.90% per year, that is an all-in cost which includes the expense ratios of the underlying funds in the portfolio. Compared to the 1.34% all in costs at Merriman and 2.25% plus at Ameriprise, it looked good to me. What I really wanted was the Financial Planning. The portfolio there is a Conservative Risk portfolio managed in a similar fashion to their Target Risk Conservative fund. They do a bit of tactical asset allocation at the margins but most of the transactions in the account are rebalancing. The financial plan takes into account my assets held away from American Century and they only give very general advice regarding my other accounts, which is what I would expect.

Another chunk of my retirement is with Broker #4, I have worked with him over 25 years now. He started out as an old fashioned stock broker but now has a broader Advisory business. I have always been on a commission basis with him, never have I paid an Assets Under Management fee. My portfolio turnover there is low and I make my own decisions with his input. He would charge a 1.00% AUM fee if I had him manage the assets for me. These funds are aggressively invested.

The remainder of my retirement is at Fidelity, which is self-managed. I have a portfolio similar to what the folks at
Merriman would have recommended. This portfolio is moderate risk.

So I have followed a hybrid Do-it-yourself/Advisor approach and it was worked well for me. My all-in costs for my retirement portfolio is probably about 40 basis points or 0.40% a year. Not bad and I am getting advice and input.

My default advice to those seeking an Advisor would be to take a good look at Vanguard and their Personal Advisor Service.
There are other lower cost options which I have posted about elsewhere.

I never have had accounts at Vanguard and I was leery about moving my funds there after all of the complaints regarding their deteriorating customer service. I had done a lot of searching over the years and found that nothing was perfect. I had accounts at American Century for many years, knew their company well, and they seemed like a good fit for me.

[MDfan]

The problem is that when people seek out an adviser, how do they know whether it’s an EJ-type salesperson, or someone with some insights on efficient tax management? You can’t outperform the market in expectations, but you can boost your performance by optimizing on taxes. Even simple things like which funds to hold in taxable vs retirement account is probably something many people get wrong, and where spending a few hundred dollars on a decent adviser would pay for itself quickly.

A decent one should cost more than a few hundred dollars.

We have found Mark Zoril and PlanVision to be very good. It's not all about how much someone costs. it's about the value they provide. And we are very satisfied with the value he has provided us as we head into retirement.

Agree. However I question how much value you can get from someone who charges only $200? That is barely enough time to organize the information being provided to someone let along reviewing it, coming up with a plan, interacting with you.

For us, he provides tremendous value. Somebody to run scenarios and potential decisions by, tax advice, etc. I’ve met with other planners who were going to charge much more for substantially similar advice.

[vnatale]

The problem is that when people seek out an adviser, how do they know whether it’s an EJ-type salesperson, or someone with some insights on efficient tax management? You can’t outperform the market in expectations, but you can boost your performance by optimizing on taxes. Even simple things like which funds to hold in taxable vs retirement account is probably something many people get wrong, and where spending a few hundred dollars on a decent adviser would pay for itself quickly.

A decent one should cost more than a few hundred dollars.

We have found Mark Zoril and PlanVision to be very good. It's not all about how much someone costs. it's about the value they provide. And we are very satisfied with the value he has provided us as we head into retirement.

Agree. However I question how much value you can get from someone who charges only $200? That is barely enough time to organize the information being provided to someone let along reviewing it, coming up with a plan, interacting with you.

For us, he provides tremendous value. Somebody to run scenarios and potential decisions by, tax advice, etc. I’ve met with other planners who were going to charge much more for substantially similar advice.

Certainly seems like you are quite satisfied with him and you believe you are getting great value. I assume that "Mark Zoril and PlanVision" are the same?

[MDfan]

A decent one should cost more than a few hundred dollars.

We have found Mark Zoril and PlanVision to be very good. It's not all about how much someone costs. it's about the value they provide. And we are very satisfied with the value he has provided us as we head into retirement.

Agree. However I question how much value you can get from someone who charges only $200? That is barely enough time to organize the information being provided to someone let along reviewing it, coming up with a plan, interacting with you.

For us, he provides tremendous value. Somebody to run scenarios and potential decisions by, tax advice, etc. I’ve met with other planners who were going to charge much more for substantially similar advice.

Certainly seems like you are quite satisfied with him and you believe you are getting great value. I assume that "Mark Zoril and PlanVision" are the same?

They are.

[smitcat]

The problem is that when people seek out an adviser, how do they know whether it’s an EJ-type salesperson, or someone with some insights on efficient tax management? You can’t outperform the market in expectations, but you can boost your performance by optimizing on taxes. Even simple things like which funds to hold in taxable vs retirement account is probably something many people get wrong, and where spending a few hundred dollars on a decent adviser would pay for itself quickly.

A decent one should cost more than a few hundred dollars.

We have found Mark Zoril and PlanVision to be very good. It's not all about how much someone costs. it's about the value they provide. And we are very satisfied with the value he has provided us as we head into retirement.

Agree. However I question how much value you can get from someone who charges only $200? That is barely enough time to organize the information being provided to someone let along reviewing it, coming up with a plan, interacting with you.

Absolutely agree.

[vnatale]

We have found Mark Zoril and PlanVision to be very good. It's not all about how much someone costs. it's about the value they provide. And we are very satisfied with the value he has provided us as we head into retirement.

Agree. However I question how much value you can get from someone who charges only $200? That is barely enough time to organize the information being provided to someone let along reviewing it, coming up with a plan, interacting with you.

For us, he provides tremendous value. Somebody to run scenarios and potential decisions by, tax advice, etc. I’ve met with other planners who were going to charge much more for substantially similar advice.

Certainly seems like you are quite satisfied with him and you believe you are getting great value. I assume that "Mark Zoril and PlanVision" are the same?

They are.

Thank you. I will investigate them as a possible recommendation to someone else. She's currently under an AUM and I think she'd much better off with an hourly adviser.

[JoeNJ28]

Some people pay AUM fees not because they can’t do it themselves but because at a certain wealth they don’t want to. They have made it and just want to hand it off and not be bothered. To them the cost of the fee is negligible to them because nor all advisors throw every penny into management.

[flyingaway]

If you are regulars on this board and spending time to participate in the discussions, any financial advisor/planner is a waste of money. This is my opinion. No one knows the future for sure and nothing is perfect.

[passive101]

If you are regulars on this board and spending time to participate in the discussions, any financial advisor/planner is a waste of money. This is my opinion. No one knows the future for sure and nothing is perfect.

Your opinion goes against most research and experts in the field. Id recommend listening to vanguard or a podcast such as the rational reminder where you can listen to the researchers and experts and learn why many people need or want to do this. Also time is money.

[nedsaid]

If you are regulars on this board and spending time to participate in the discussions, any financial advisor/planner is a waste of money. This is my opinion. No one knows the future for sure and nothing is perfect.

Your opinion goes against most research and experts in the field. Id recommend listening to vanguard or a podcast such as the rational reminder where you can listen to the researchers and experts and learn why many people need or want to do this. Also time is money.

Financial Advisors are sometimes a waste of money if all you are getting is somebody selling you stuff. No advice will be 100% objective but you can do better than someone who is only a financial salesman. Though the future is not known, people who do planning, whether they employ a planner or not, are vastly better off than people who don't.

I had a tax client who told me he was retiring in a year. I bluntly asked him if he would be able to pay his bills. I recommended that he check what Social Security was going to pay him, his health insurance, and what his housing options would be. Lots of people just make snap decisions and this can be costly. The fellow was mad at me at first but he could see that I was concerned about his future. Once you have the facts, then one can make better decisions.

A good advisor can be valuable and a bad one can be only costly. If someone needs an Advisor, with some checking, one can find someone who is at least competent. Good signs would be someone with a Certified Financial Planner designation and someone who is a Registered investment Advisor or affiliated with an RIA firm. Nothing is perfect but we do the best
that we can.

[TomatoTomahto]

The problem is that when people seek out an adviser, how do they know whether it’s an EJ-type salesperson, or someone with some insights on efficient tax management? You can’t outperform the market in expectations, but you can boost your performance by optimizing on taxes. Even simple things like which funds to hold in taxable vs retirement account is probably something many people get wrong, and where spending a few hundred dollars on a decent adviser would pay for itself quickly.

A decent one should cost more than a few hundred dollars.

We have found Mark Zoril and PlanVision to be very good. It's not all about how much someone costs. it's about the value they provide. And we are very satisfied with the value he has provided us as we head into retirement.

Agree. However I question how much value you can get from someone who charges only $200? That is barely enough time to organize the information being provided to someone let along reviewing it, coming up with a plan, interacting with you.

For us, he provides tremendous value. Somebody to run scenarios and potential decisions by, tax advice, etc. I’ve met with other planners who were going to charge much more for substantially similar advice.

I used him a few years ago to answer my questions about doing Roth conversions. His conclusion was that we were probably being “too clever” and that probably we should just leave well enough alone.

That had been my amateur belief also and I considered it money well spent to be reassured that I wasn’t delusional.

[zie]

So why do you do it? For investment guidance? For taxation advice? For withdrawl practices? Something else?

I'm also curious what is the material advantage you get out it? For example, if you use them for investment guidance, how much extra percent yield do feel they get you?

I'll answer in order.

It's nice to have another person look over my shoulder and make sure I'm not doing something idiotic. But mostly, I want to make my heir(s) life easy, so my main purpose is to have someone that can help them through that process when the time comes. Hopefully I have many many decades to go, but one never knows.

Not really for investment guidance, as I'm comfortable with my investments, though they did help me embrace simplicity.

I'll certainly share my withdrawal plans whenever I get that far, just to make sure I'm not making ridiculous mistakes.

Yes, to help ensure my heir(s) have a hopefully simple time of it.

I pay $100/yr or so for a double check on actions and to help my heir(s) transition whenever it comes time. That's money well spent from my perspective.

I don't expect any alpha, my plans work fine with 4%/yr real return. If I get more than that, I'm happy. If I end up getting less than that I'll have to cut back some of my plans, which wouldn't be the end of the world, just means my heir(s) will get a little less than I planned for.

[stan1]

So why do you do it? For investment guidance? For taxation advice? For withdrawl practices? Something else?

I'm also curious what is the material advantage you get out it? For example, if you use them for investment guidance, how much extra percent yield do feel they get you?

I'll answer in order.

It's nice to have another person look over my shoulder and make sure I'm not doing something idiotic. But mostly, I want to make my heir(s) life easy, so my main purpose is to have someone that can help them through that process when the time comes. Hopefully I have many many decades to go, but one never knows.

Not really for investment guidance, as I'm comfortable with my investments, though they did help me embrace simplicity.

I'll certainly share my withdrawal plans whenever I get that far, just to make sure I'm not making ridiculous mistakes.

Yes, to help ensure my heir(s) have a hopefully simple time of it.

I pay $100/yr or so for a double check on actions and to help my heir(s) transition whenever it comes time. That's money well spent from my perspective.

I don't expect any alpha, my plans work fine with 4%/yr real return. If I get more than that, I'm happy. If I end up getting less than that I'll have to cut back some of my plans, which wouldn't be the end of the world, just means my heir(s) will get a little less than I planned for.

So are you a Planvision/Mark Zoril customer on annual maintenance?
I think his business model is an outlier, I don't think anyone else does it the same way.
Definitely a distinction between $96 per year and 1% AUM fee in terms of cost.

[zie]

So why do you do it? For investment guidance? For taxation advice? For withdrawl practices? Something else?

I'm also curious what is the material advantage you get out it? For example, if you use them for investment guidance, how much extra percent yield do feel they get you?

I'll answer in order.

It's nice to have another person look over my shoulder and make sure I'm not doing something idiotic. But mostly, I want to make my heir(s) life easy, so my main purpose is to have someone that can help them through that process when the time comes. Hopefully I have many many decades to go, but one never knows.

Not really for investment guidance, as I'm comfortable with my investments, though they did help me embrace simplicity.

I'll certainly share my withdrawal plans whenever I get that far, just to make sure I'm not making ridiculous mistakes.

Yes, to help ensure my heir(s) have a hopefully simple time of it.

I pay $100/yr or so for a double check on actions and to help my heir(s) transition whenever it comes time. That's money well spent from my perspective.

I don't expect any alpha, my plans work fine with 4%/yr real return. If I get more than that, I'm happy. If I end up getting less than that I'll have to cut back some of my plans, which wouldn't be the end of the world, just means my heir(s) will get a little less than I planned for.

So are you a Planvision/Mark Zoril customer on annual maintenance?
I think his business model is an outlier, I don't think anyone else does it the same way.
Definitely a distinction between $96 per year and 1% AUM fee in terms of cost.

Yes on being a Planvision customer, for the services I'm wanting, I would never pay much more than I do now.

The only other subscription based financial service that I know of is Facet Wealth: "Our prices range from $1,800 to $6,000, annually." -2021 https://www.facetwealth.com I don't know anything about their services, I'm not a customer and I've never met or heard from anyone that is a customer and I've never interacted with them.

[heyyou]

Since early retirement, I've been paying $2000 a year for a flat fee adviser who recommends index funds. At first it was for my wife who was a decade younger, but now it is for me, due to a slowly deteriorating medical condition. I like having that buffer between my assets and my home computer. YMMV
Note the distinction of what suits almost all Bogleheads, may or may not be the preference of everyone else who buys index funds.

[WoodSpinner]

Op,

We are looking for a Financial Advisor (FA) that is paid by the hour or project rather than AUM. This is surprisingly difficult for DIY types since you need to find the right fit and an advisor that is comfortable being asked challenging questions.


Main reasons include:

- Have someone who can help my DW with Financial Decisions if I pass early or become incapacitated.

- Review our Retirement/Estate Plans to identify gaps or optimization opportunities.

- Bring additional Tools, Strategies and Viewpoints to our plans.

- Minimal review of our Investments

WoodSpinner

[Dregob]

The problem is that when people seek out an adviser, how do they know whether it’s an EJ-type salesperson, or someone with some insights on efficient tax management? You can’t outperform the market in expectations, but you can boost your performance by optimizing on taxes. Even simple things like which funds to hold in taxable vs retirement account is probably something many people get wrong, and where spending a few hundred dollars on a decent adviser would pay for itself quickly.

A decent one should cost more than a few hundred dollars.

We have found Mark Zoril and PlanVision to be very good. It's not all about how much someone costs. it's about the value they provide. And we are very satisfied with the value he has provided us as we head into retirement.

Agree. However I question how much value you can get from someone who charges only $200? That is barely enough time to organize the information being provided to someone let along reviewing it, coming up with a plan, interacting with you.

Absolutely agree.

I'd say you get more value here for free than from a $200 advisor.

[smitcat]

A decent one should cost more than a few hundred dollars.

We have found Mark Zoril and PlanVision to be very good. It's not all about how much someone costs. it's about the value they provide. And we are very satisfied with the value he has provided us as we head into retirement.

Agree. However I question how much value you can get from someone who charges only $200? That is barely enough time to organize the information being provided to someone let along reviewing it, coming up with a plan, interacting with you.

Absolutely agree.

I'd say you get more value here for free than from a $200 advisor.

Yes - put in time and effrort and you can get great value a number of ways.

[TomatoTomahto]

A decent one should cost more than a few hundred dollars.

We have found Mark Zoril and PlanVision to be very good. It's not all about how much someone costs. it's about the value they provide. And we are very satisfied with the value he has provided us as we head into retirement.

Agree. However I question how much value you can get from someone who charges only $200? That is barely enough time to organize the information being provided to someone let along reviewing it, coming up with a plan, interacting with you.

Absolutely agree.

I'd say you get more value here for free than from a $200 advisor.

Ordinarily, that might be true. A few years ago, I stopped disclosing details about our portfolio size, income, etc. on the forum. There’s no way to retract what I have previously divulged and I’m okay with the forum knowing that we are relatively comfortable financially.

To discuss Roth conversions, a lot more had to be disclosed, and I felt fine doing that with Mark Zoril in a limited and focused engagement.

[HeavyChevy]

A few years ago, I stopped disclosing details about our portfolio size, income, etc. on the forum. There’s no way to retract what I have previously divulged and I’m okay with the forum knowing that we are relatively comfortable financially.

To discuss Roth conversions, a lot more had to be disclosed, and I felt fine doing that with Mark Zoril in a limited and focused engagement.

I wouldn't spend many brain cells worrying about such disclosures.

We don't know who you are.
Not actually of particular interest to most anyway.
People lie (not under oath on BH)
Situations change with time.

But I appreciate the context of others' financial situations to the extent it affects their opinions/decisions disclosed here.