Is it too late for me to get started?

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atailor85
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Joined: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:06 pm

Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by atailor85 »

Hi there - 37 (almost 38) years old and I never really had a grip on my finances. Never had a high paying job. For reference, I coach basketball, was at one job and stayed in the same position for 6 years. It was a comfortable position, but I could never get promoted to the assistant coach level or even 1 position up the ladder. Took a bet on myself and left my full time job that paid about 55k and left for an internship in the NBA ($15/hour) :happy . It was the best job I've ever had from an experience standpoint.

My question to yall is - am I too late to start the investing game? and what can i do to see quick returns?!
muffins14
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by muffins14 »

It is never too late to start, but there is no such thing as quick returns.

Use something like a target date fund or vanguard funds like VT, VTI, VXUS, BND

Do you have access to a 401k?

What are your current savings like?
Where do you see this new job going in 1-3 years?
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Wiggums
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by Wiggums »

Taking a lower paying job is ok if it opens new doors for you.

Investing for you future is all about your savings rate and time in the market. The later you get started saving, the more you will need to contribute each month.

Do you have any money saved now?
"I started with nothing and I still have most of it left."
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windaar
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by windaar »

I started around age 40 because I was in grad school and making "starving artist" wages for a long time. A couple decades later I have quite a bit in my investments due to Boglehead principles. There are no "quick returns," though. If you're chasing that you are liable to make the kinds of emotional and tinkering mistakes that will likely lead to no long term growth. Best wishes!
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AerialWombat
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by AerialWombat »

I earned below the poverty level most of my life and had zero savings until age 36. I retired at 43. A LOT can change in 5-10 years.

What matters most for you is your potential career trajectory. If you’re on a path that has a reasonable probability of getting you to six figures in the NBA or NCAA within a few years, then great. If not, then you might want to reconsider your career.

Either way, even if you go back to your old 55k job, you’ll be fine as long as you keep living costs low so that you can save aggressively. Savings rate trumps investment returns when you’re starting late like you and I did.
This post is a work of fiction. Any similarity to real financial advice is purely coincidental.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

atailor85 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:10 pm My question to yall is - am I too late to start the investing game? and what can i do to see quick returns?!
1. no it's not too late.
2. investing is not a game. it's a process that allows you to draw on your investment capital after you exhaust your human capital. And because it's hard to just live on social security so you'll probably need something to supplement that.
3. you can't do anything to see quick returns.

all investing comes down to:
money (the more you invest, the more you're "likely" to make. The less you invest, the less you're "likely" to make)
time (the longer you invest, the more you're "likely" to make. The shorter you invest, the less you're "likely" to make)
rate of return (the higher the rate of return, the more youre "likely" to make. The lower the rate of return, the less you're "likely" to make)

there are no shortcuts to investing.

those who brag about getting rich quickly got lucky. understand the difference. luck is not a strategy.

if you want to get started, start here.

welcome to the group.
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions | Wiki
Northern Flicker
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by Northern Flicker »

atailor85 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:10 pm Hi there - 37 (almost 38) years old and I never really had a grip on my finances. Never had a high paying job. For reference, I coach basketball, was at one job and stayed in the same position for 6 years. It was a comfortable position, but I could never get promoted to the assistant coach level or even 1 position up the ladder. Took a bet on myself and left my full time job that paid about 55k and left for an internship in the NBA ($15/hour) :happy . It was the best job I've ever had from an experience standpoint.

My question to yall is - am I too late to start the investing game? and what can i do to see quick returns?!
You most definitely are not too late. But it is a marathon, not a sprint.
billfromct
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by billfromct »

Since you have earned income, open & fund a Roth IRA with a low cost brokerage like Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab. You can contribute up to $6,500 for 2023 as long as you have $6,500 of earned income.

With Vanguard, you can open a Target Retirement Fund with a $1,000 contribution. The Vanguard 2050 Target Retirement Fund may be a good choice as it starts out with 80%-90% stocks (60% domestic/40% international) then moves to about a 50% stocks/50% fixed income at the target year. Then it gradually moves to a 30% stock/70% fixed income asset allocation 7 years after the target year.

This way you can start saving for retirement while you educate yourself & can change to other mutual funds, if you wish as you build up your Roth IRA.

If you’re not familiar with a Roth IRA: you put after tax money in (no tax deduction) but it grows tax free & can be taken out state & Federal tax free after age 59.5. The Roth IRA is the best investment when you are in low Federal tax bracket, probably like the 12% Federal tax bracket you may be in now.

bill
Last edited by billfromct on Mon Jul 03, 2023 1:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Normchad
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by Normchad »

It’s not too late.

And as my boss says. “The sooner we fall behind, the more time we have to catch up!”

You got this. Other posters are giving the best advice you can find anywhere. Do what they say, and post back from time to time with questions and updates.
Money_Badger
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by Money_Badger »

First, get in the game! If you have access to a 401K, start contributing at least up to any match that might be offered. As Michael Jordan once said (or so the legend goes), "You miss every shot you don't take!"

You still have a very long time horizon for your money to grow, so even small amounts can pay big dividends later.

Don't turn the ball over! Be frugal and don't spend frivolously, "value the ball". Don't take unnecessary risks. Make the safe pass and take the easy lay up (index / low cost funds) instead of the contested 3 (high risk / individual stocks).

In short, go with the John Wooden approach: Be quick (start now) but don't hurry (take unnecessary risk).

Good Luck with your career and your money!!
AlwaysLearningMore
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by AlwaysLearningMore »

Not too late. You are still young.
Consider taking full advantage of workplace retirement plans. And an IRA as well if you have the means.

Good luck.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* | FIRE'd July 2023
tibbitts
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by tibbitts »

atailor85 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:10 pm Hi there - 37 (almost 38) years old and I never really had a grip on my finances. Never had a high paying job. For reference, I coach basketball, was at one job and stayed in the same position for 6 years. It was a comfortable position, but I could never get promoted to the assistant coach level or even 1 position up the ladder. Took a bet on myself and left my full time job that paid about 55k and left for an internship in the NBA ($15/hour) :happy . It was the best job I've ever had from an experience standpoint.

My question to yall is - am I too late to start the investing game? and what can i do to see quick returns?!
You're not being realistic about "quick returns." If there was a reasonable way to get quick returns, we'd all be using it, regardless of how much we've already saved.

You need to explain what your employment situation is now. $55k is scoffed at around here but is a very respectable salary, depending somewhat on the nature of the work and benefits of course. And there's nothing wrong with taking a $15/hr internship for the experience, but presumably it will lead you back to at least your $55k situation...?
SnowBog
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by SnowBog »

Not too late!

I'd argue one of the most important concepts to understand is the amount of money you need to save is directly tied to the amount you spend on retirement. More specifically, the amount you spend that isn't covered by pensions, social security, etc.

The less you spend, the less you need to save.

And the less you spend (relative to your income), the more you save (annually), and the faster you'll reach your target savings.

While it isn't perfect, to get started, assume you'll need 25 times your annual expenses (for now we'll ignore social security). So if your annual expenses are $25k, your "target" is around $625k. If your annual expenses are $100k, your "target" would be around $2.5M.

It's all "relative" to your expenses. Keep those in check, save/invest the rest, and be patient.
retire2022
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by retire2022 »

atailor85 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:10 pm Hi there - 37 (almost 38) years old and I never really had a grip on my finances. Never had a high paying job. For reference, I coach basketball, was at one job and stayed in the same position for 6 years. It was a comfortable position, but I could never get promoted to the assistant coach level or even 1 position up the ladder. Took a bet on myself and left my full time job that paid about 55k and left for an internship in the NBA ($15/hour) :happy . It was the best job I've ever had from an experience standpoint.

My question to yall is - am I too late to start the investing game? and what can i do to see quick returns?!
I started investing at 27 (1987) and never made more than 98k, first 13 years 2000, ended up with 400k portfolio, lost 50% during first internet boom and had to wait until 2013 when I broke first million.

Trick is I had a city/state job which have benefits and job security with pension, that allowed me to invest aggressively esp. no kids, no spouse in picture.

Contributed 430k to work 457 and contributed to pretax/Roth IRA approx. 200k retired at 61 (2021) with 2.696 million, cost basis was approx. 630k 34 years of investing not too shabby.

Point is, high savings rate, in my case 21% throughout career no kids, Live Below One's Means contributed to outcome, along the way your portfolio may or may not be volatile.

Some years AA was moderate, some years AA was aggressive, currently it is 87/13 from 95/5, I took cash out of market currently holding cash for vacation home.
miket29
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by miket29 »

atailor85 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:10 pm My question to yall is - am I too late to start the investing game? and what can i do to see quick returns?!
Almost the best way to guarantee sub-par returns, unfortunately. If people knew how to get "quick returns" then they'd be doing it and most likely not giving the advice out for free for anyone to copy (once everyone does something with an edge then the edge is bid away and disappears).
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by Vanguard User »

AerialWombat wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 1:00 pm I earned below the poverty level most of my life and had zero savings until age 36. I retired at 43. A LOT can change in 5-10 years.

What matters most for you is your potential career trajectory. If you’re on a path that has a reasonable probability of getting you to six figures in the NBA or NCAA within a few years, then great. If not, then you might want to reconsider your career.

Either way, even if you go back to your old 55k job, you’ll be fine as long as you keep living costs low so that you can save aggressively. Savings rate trumps investment returns when you’re starting late like you and I did.
What did you do to retire in 7 years?
steadyosmosis
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by steadyosmosis »

Nobody can start 'yesterday' ... starting 'today' is the best one can do (that hasn't yet started).
I had a re-start from zero during my working years, but still compiled a 2nd nest egg in about 20 years, then retired early.
Huge factors are 1) your savings rate and 2) your spend rate, far outweighing asset allocation, rate of returns, etc.
You can do it.
Set your mind to it.
Credibility ... some posters have it.
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dratkinson
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by dratkinson »

I started (much!) later than you. I'm okay. You'll be okay.


Don't worry if you don't understand everything at first, you'll get there.*

Baby steps.
--FYI. Go into the wiki and read "Getting Started": https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Main_Page
--FYI. Read the public library book: The Bogleheads' Guide to Investing.
--Action. Then (new) post your financial situation for forum review; use this information: https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Asking_ ... _questions

* Your background reading will give you enough information to post your forum review, and understand its replies.
Your information, coupled with BHs' expertise, will get you some ideas/options from which you can pick to create a good retirement game plan.
Ask clarifying questions about anything you don't understand. Easy peasy.


If you begin reading now, by this time next month, you'll be a novice BH and should have your retirement game plan and accounts established.

Manage your investments for a few years---asking questions, making small tweaks along the way as you learn/understand more**---and you'll be an expert at everything you need to know to get to retirement.


** Disclosure. I followed the retirement game plan I created during my forum review. Things worked as expected so I knew it was a good plan.

I continued my investor education---reading recommended books, learning from others on forum---and discovered a few small tweaks that fit me better. My retirement game plan is still a good plan, just better suited to my true risk tolerance.

You may expect similar learning/tweaking of your retirement game plan as you continue your investor education. It's okay and expected as by then you'll have the knowledge to do that---manage your own investments.



Idea. Come back to this post, and post a link here, to your new post/forum review. Why? So we can follow you there and continue.



Edit. Clarity, grammar, second thoughts.
Last edited by dratkinson on Tue Jul 04, 2023 3:00 pm, edited 4 times in total.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor; you are forewarned. | AA: 50/50; taxable: 3fund w/munis; Roth: recommended stock funds for expected higher growth.
Outer Marker
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by Outer Marker »

atailor85 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:10 pm Took a bet on myself and left my full time job that paid about 55k and left for an internship in the NBA ($15/hour) :happy . It was the best job I've ever had from an experience standpoint.

My question to yall is - am I too late to start the investing game? and what can i do to see quick returns?!
Do you have a new full time job now? It's never too late to start. How much do you think you can afford to save while meeting your living expenses?
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ram
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by ram »

No
Never.(Using Boglehead methodology)
Ram
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

“The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.” – Chinese Proverb
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions | Wiki
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dogagility
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by dogagility »

atailor85 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:10 pm My question to yall is - am I too late to start the investing game? and what can i do to see quick returns?!
Never too late.

Quick returns? Invest in a single stock... but the dispersion of potential outcomes will be VERY WIDE and unpredictable.
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AerialWombat
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by AerialWombat »

Vanguard User wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:11 pm What did you do to retire in 7 years?
Worked 100-hour weeks to simultaneously grow three businesses to the exclusion of all other relationships and interests. I do not recommend this path.

OP’s $55,000 a year job would get them there eventually, too, but with sanity and humanity intact.
This post is a work of fiction. Any similarity to real financial advice is purely coincidental.
vxdx
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by vxdx »

atailor85 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:10 pm My question to yall is - am I too late to start the investing game? and what can i do to see quick returns?!
It’s never too late, but searching for quick returns because you feel like you’re behind is a sure way to end up even worse off.
gavinsiu
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by gavinsiu »

The best time to invest was 10 years ago but the next best time is now. Try to catchup by contributing more. I would suggest at least max out your 401k. The worst you can do is to give up and do nothing.

My mom started investing at 50. She has a nest egg. It’s not a large one but there enough to live on.
EconMom
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by EconMom »

I would encourage you to look into “house hacking”. You could try to find a duplex and live in one with the rent from the other paying a big chunk of the mortgage. That will help you build wealth and free up some cash flow to invest in stocks. That’s about the only thing I could think of for “quick returns”.
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by Vanguard User »

AerialWombat wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 6:44 pm
Vanguard User wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 3:11 pm What did you do to retire in 7 years?
Worked 100-hour weeks to simultaneously grow three businesses to the exclusion of all other relationships and interests. I do not recommend this path.

OP’s $55,000 a year job would get them there eventually, too, but with sanity and humanity intact.
What about your health in those 7 years?
WhitePuma
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by WhitePuma »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 4:20 pm “The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.” – Chinese Proverb
Wouldn’t the second best time have been 19 years ago?
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

WhitePuma wrote: Tue Jul 04, 2023 12:14 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 4:20 pm “The best time to plant a tree was 20 years ago. The second best time is now.” – Chinese Proverb
Wouldn’t the second best time have been 19 years ago?
or 19 years and 364 days ago (assuming 19 years ago contained no leap year). my we're getting really literal here, aren't we?
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions | Wiki
wander
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by wander »

Like doctor's recommendation: it's never too late to do exercise. Today is good time. :D
RevFran
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by RevFran »

billfromct wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 1:23 pm Since you have earned income, open & fund a Roth IRA with a low cost brokerage like Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab. You can contribute up to $6,500 for 2023 as long as you have $6,500 of earned income.

With Vanguard, you can open a Target Retirement Fund with a $1,000 contribution. The Vanguard 2050 Target Retirement Fund may be a good choice as it starts out with 80%-90% stocks (60% domestic/40% international) then moves to about a 50% stocks/50% fixed income at the target year. Then it gradually moves to a 30% stock/70% fixed income asset allocation 7 years after the target year.

This way you can start saving for retirement while you educate yourself & can change to other mutual funds, if you wish as you build up your Roth IRA.

If you’re not familiar with a Roth IRA: you put after tax money in (no tax deduction) but it grows tax free & can be taken out state & Federal tax free after age 59.5. The Roth IRA is the best investment when you are in low Federal tax bracket, probably like the 12% Federal tax bracket you may be in now.

bill
This is a great suggestion.
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atailor85
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by atailor85 »

Thank you for the responses. This makes me feel a little bit better. I am a high achiever and wanted to win NBA championships and want our future kids to grow up around the NBA, and really want to continue coaching at this level. It is literally the best professional experience I've ever had an opened doors I never thought were possible. I don't know what the future necessarily holds as of now job wise, as our coach was let go and we are in a transition period. I haven't been given any indication the interns in player development (the group I worked in) will be retained by the new coaching staff, but I have been aggressively looking for full time jobs elsewhere with other teams in the NBA.

For full disclosure, my wife works and has a significantly higher paying job than I will have for some time (until i reach the assistant coaching levels) and she has done a phenomenal job investing almost 1M in less than 4 years shes been working.

Since I posted, I opened a Roth IRA in fidelity. Any recommendations on where to put my $6500 limit on that? just want it to start compounding ASAP. I have about 50K that is basically "play money" and I have some side hustles going at the moment while waiting to see job status. Usually flipping shoes, memorabilia, trading cards, etc. but that isn't getting it done the way a stable income is.

My old job gave me a standard IRA through TIAA but I had to empty that to make sure I was comfortable in my NBA job this past season, as my wife and I had to live separately for about 7-8 months and that meant me paying rent for 4.5 of those months.

Thank you again for the advice and responses. Please keep it coming. I don't want my NBA dreams to die. I had worked 9 years in college basketball without much room for growth and less and less voice among the coaching staff. I learned more in 1 year in the NBA than 9 in college. Have no regrets about betting on myself like that.
dharrythomas
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by dharrythomas »

1. It is never too late to get started. Earlier is better, but today is better than later.

2. The only fast ways come with great risk, few winners, and many losers. The Boglehead way works with a compound interest chart. There is no way to skip the left side of the chart. Warren Buffett got incredibly wealthy, as opposed to just very rich, in large part by starting early and working and living for a long time. He was out of school and working for Ben Graham in the 1950s. He’s still at it about 70 years later and accrued most of his wealth after age 65.

3. Doing something that motivates you to get up in the morning is important. Money is important. Money is a factor in every decision. Money often isn’t the most important factor. As long as you and your spouse are in agreement on the level of stress the relationship can handle and all the bills are paid, money is probably less of a strain than separation.

I agree with the Target Date fund recommendations that you received above. Diversify and let the compounding take care of itself.

Good luck

Harry
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dratkinson
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by dratkinson »

The short answer. At Fidelity, in your rIRA, you could choose:

--Fidelity ZERO Total Market Index Fund (FZROX). Preferred for very low cost and 100% stocks for their expected higher growth.
See: https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /31635T708

--Fidelity Freedom Index 2050 target date retirement fund (FIPFX). Preferred for low cost and all-in-one (stocks/bonds) fund management.
See: https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /315793869

Your choice.

Be aware, if you talk to a Fido CSR (customer service rep) to make your rIRA fund purchase, you may get some push-back with your fund selection. Why? The above choices benefit you more than Fido's ownership. So if asked why you selected them, tell the CSR that "The Morningstar website says Fidelity has good funds, and that lower-cost funds do better over the long run---so you selected the lowest cost Fidelity fund(s)."



The long answer. The best outcome for both of you is to consider all of your (plural) family retirement planning options at the same time.

Ask your wife if she wants us to consider her retirement options too.

--If "Yes", then you complete the questions asked in the sticky/wiki topics "Asking Portfolio Questions", and we'll go from there.

Post your answers in a new topic. Why? So All of your information appears in your OP (original post, original poster), and in a known format. Why? It makes it much easier for folks who want to help you---they know all of your information is in your OP, and in a known order, so they know where to look to find the pieces-parts they need to construct their reply for you.

--If "No", then suggest she use a low-cost TDR (target date retirement) fund.



This is the best I can offer with incomplete knowledge of the retirement options available to you (plural).
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor; you are forewarned. | AA: 50/50; taxable: 3fund w/munis; Roth: recommended stock funds for expected higher growth.
Saphomd
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by Saphomd »

Like other Bogleheads have said, its never too late !
Vanguard Target funds are a good option. If you plan to retire around age 60, consider the Target retirement 2045 Fund. I believe right now its about 84% stock and almost 14% bonds. The nice thing is you can open up this fund with only $1000.
Keep it simple. Good luck.
To err is human, but when the eraser wears out ahead of the pencil, you are overdoing it.---Josh Jenkins
JDave
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by JDave »

Going after "quick returns" is about the best way to lose your savings. Investing is a long game, not a short one.
Topic Author
atailor85
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by atailor85 »

Update - this gets interesting. A team has offered me a job. It's not the ideal job that I'd want but has many elements of jobs I have done in the past and am familiar with. Pay is only 25k plus housing. I need to read the full contract to see what else it includes, but my agent sent me a benefits package as well. Showed the offer letter to my wife and she was livid. I don't think she (or many others) understand how the coaching ranks work.

She demanded I ask for 100k or start making 100k/year. I haven't ever made that much in my life. How on earth am I supposed to make this work? No other job outside of basketball would pay me 100k/year starting salary.

I've begged her to be patient and play the longer game with me as NBA coaching salaries are in the 16M/year range on the high end right now and about 4-5M/year on the low end. And these markets keep having the floor raised seemingly every 2-3 years.

Sorry for the slightly off topic reply. Anyone got any tips for how to go from 25k-100k/year? Asking for a friend :happy
Marseille07
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by Marseille07 »

atailor85 wrote: Sun Jul 09, 2023 4:07 pm For full disclosure, my wife works and has a significantly higher paying job than I will have for some time (until i reach the assistant coaching levels) and she has done a phenomenal job investing almost 1M in less than 4 years shes been working.
OK...so what exactly are you trying to get started? Seems like your family has already started investing and doing very well.
investuntilimrich
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by investuntilimrich »

25k is pretty low, you would make more at burger king. Fast food in my area is paying around 18$/hr right now. Is this part time or only part of the year? Can you work a second job or seasonal job? I would not be willing to work for that unless there was a *very quick* path to something greater.
SnowBog
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by SnowBog »

investuntilimrich wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 6:42 am 25k is pretty low, you would make more at burger king. Fast food in my area is paying around 18$/hr right now. Is this part time or only part of the year? Can you work a second job or seasonal job? I would not be willing to work for that unless there was a *very quick* path to something greater.
Admittedly, I know nothing about coaching, it's "levels" and "pay scales", or the "reality" of advancing through those ranks and getting paid better.

But my thought is very similar... No way I'd be working for $25k/year without a very quick - and basically "guaranteed" path - to something better. Especially if it requires me to relocate, as either I'd be leaving my family behind (and incurring costs of visiting them) or I'd be dragging them across the country (and risking the well paid spouse losing that higher income in the move).

OP - I get coaching is a passion for you. I also get that you have dollar signs in your eyes thinking about what you could earn if you make it to the NBA. But let's put that in different terms... People occasionally come to Bogleheads thinking they can "get rich quick" if they simply pick better stocks. And while a few people invariably do get rich off stock picking (or winning the lottery, or getting an NBA coaching job), the reality is for the vast majority of us - we end up poorer trying to follow this path. That's why BH advises the "slow and steady wins the race" approach - low cost indexing - which will have far better results far more often for far more people.

Presumably you've been chasing your coaching dream for nearly 20 years now. And the results thus far is a $25k offer... As have been pointed out, you could make more working just about any other job - including fast food. Financially, this seems a horrible option - and I can understand your spouses displeasure...

Now comes the "hard decision" for you... What's most important in your life?

If it's coaching - and the pay is enough to cover your expenses - the financial side may not matter - even if you never "make it big". Few people can say they were able to live out their passions in life. And if this is really what you want in life - you should seriously consider doing so. But you need to be mindful of its "cost", as you'll have to assess the impact to your marriage and family, as from the sounds of it, your spouse is not on board...

If it's financial security - you need to be honest with yourself - what are realistic odds that this low paying job will lead to something better - and when. As I'm sure you know, not every good player makes it to the professional ranks - and there's far more player positions open then coaching positions. So are you the "lucky one" that will some day make it big? And what happens if that day never comes? If financial reasons are your driving factor, it may be time to think of alternatives - while you still have time to pivot - that are more "slow and steady wins the race" ways to financial freedom.

If it's family, you need to have a frank discussion with your spouse. You may not like their answer - but you need to hear it. In my own personal case, I had a mostly opposite scenario as you at one point in my life. I was offered more money than I'd ever seen before to go into consulting, which would have required me to travel significantly. Within 2 years, all our school loans and mortgage would have been paid off. When I discussed with my spouse, their response was that sounded good for me, but bad for us, as it wasn't the life they wanted. For me, my spouse and family "won". I turned down the consulting offer, switched to a different career track/job that let me avoid travel. As luck (and hard work) had it, I built a very successful career and ended up doing very well for myself regardless - but it's was heavily benefited by - and mostly for the purposes - of the support of my family.
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atailor85
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by atailor85 »

Sir (or ma'am), I just spent last year working as a coaching intern with an NBA team. This position is with an NBA team as well. As a non former NBA player these jobs are incredibly hard to come by. To me, these are the opportunities to chase. We don't have kids yet, but that's not very far into the future. I can make this work, just need multiple streams of income. The housing is included, health insurance is included. It would not be a huge expense to me financially mainly because the housing is included in this contract. Still waiting for them to send me the full terms. The contract period runs from like October to March/April. And the only way to advance up the ranks is to stay on the bus. I understand most forum members here don't see the workings of the NBA and athletics in general, but I'm going to find a way to make this thing work.
Dottie57
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by Dottie57 »

muffins14 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:31 pm It is never too late to start, but there is no such thing as quick returns.

Use something like a target date fund or vanguard funds like VT, VTI, VXUS, BND

Do you have access to a 401k?

What are your current savings like?
Where do you see this new job going in 1-3 years?
This. You could start at age 50 - you would have more than you would if you didn’t start. The earlier you start the better.

So get to it. Start today.

P.S. reaching for returns- go for a three or two fund portfolio. Reaching can really backfire.

Good Luck.
Life is more than grinding it out in some drab office setting for an arbitrary number. This isn't a videogame where the higher score is better. -Nathan Drake
Dottie57
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by Dottie57 »

atailor85 wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 3:37 pm Sir (or ma'am), I just spent last year working as a coaching intern with an NBA team. This position is with an NBA team as well. As a non former NBA player these jobs are incredibly hard to come by. To me, these are the opportunities to chase. We don't have kids yet, but that's not very far into the future. I can make this work, just need multiple streams of income. The housing is included, health insurance is included. It would not be a huge expense to me financially mainly because the housing is included in this contract. Still waiting for them to send me the full terms. The contract period runs from like October to March/April. And the only way to advance up the ranks is to stay on the bus. I understand most forum members here don't see the workings of the NBA and athletics in general, but I'm going to find a way to make this thing work.
Just understand you are putting a large burden on your wife/family. I assume she works. You are 37 at 25k a year.
Life is more than grinding it out in some drab office setting for an arbitrary number. This isn't a videogame where the higher score is better. -Nathan Drake
1moreyr
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by 1moreyr »

Through poor diversification, I lost my almost my entire portfolio at 40. I had a 7 figure nest egg that turned into $40,000 in less than a month.

i retired at 56.....

get diligent, get saving, get frugal (which you probably are based on your income).

others results don't mean what will happen to you.... you may retire by 55 :wink:
Caleb4387
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by Caleb4387 »

You should be fine. My wife snd I are really just starting she's 46 I'm 36 we won't really have our foot in the pedal for 3 or 4 more years but with my current earnings we are on track to still have 3/4 to a million by the time we both leave the workforce.
SnowBog
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by SnowBog »

atailor85 wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 3:37 pm Sir (or ma'am), I just spent last year working as a coaching intern with an NBA team. This position is with an NBA team as well. As a non former NBA player these jobs are incredibly hard to come by. To me, these are the opportunities to chase. We don't have kids yet, but that's not very far into the future. I can make this work, just need multiple streams of income. The housing is included, health insurance is included. It would not be a huge expense to me financially mainly because the housing is included in this contract. Still waiting for them to send me the full terms. The contract period runs from like October to March/April. And the only way to advance up the ranks is to stay on the bus. I understand most forum members here don't see the workings of the NBA and athletics in general, but I'm going to find a way to make this thing work.
I'm assuming this was in relation to my prior post...

Maybe I've misread the situation... But from your prior posts, your spouse sounds like they are not on the same page as you...

So, I'd like to reiterate part of what I previously said...
SnowBog wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:35 pm OP - I get coaching is a passion for you...

Presumably you've been chasing your coaching dream for nearly 20 years now... and I can understand your spouses displeasure...

Now comes the "hard decision" for you... What's most important in your life?

If it's family, you need to have a frank discussion with your spouse. You may not like their answer - but you need to hear it.
Again, maybe I've misread the situation... Even if I'm right, I don't know why your spouse isn't on the same page as you. If it's financial - maybe they are willing to "invest" another year or so in hopes you get a payout from it... If it's not financial - then I think they are trying to tell you something... Maybe it's the "no kids" part, and they want that to be a bigger focus area. Or maybe it's the thought of "kids not very far into the future" and the idea of raising them with you not being around much (as it didn't sound like they were moving with you - even if they did I'd assume you'd be traveling a lot). Or maybe something else...

Bottom line - if you care about your spouse/family - you need to have a frank discussion with them. We can help in the financial pieces - but the non-financial ones are often more important.

ETA: To be more direct... If your dream job is so important to you that you are willing to risk your marriage/family... Then I assume you are also willing to risk your financial security as well. So I'm not sure how I can help you...

You are correct, I don't know how the internals of NBA teams work. I'm honestly in shock that they pay so poorly, especially if this is a step up from the intern position you previously had.

But I do understand there is only one head coach who makes the "big bucks", several people around them who likely make decent wages, and from the sounds of it many more people who make very little. Presumably all your "peers" want to move up as well - and obviously not everyone will (there aren't enough jobs at the top to fill).

Again - you seem completely OK with this, and have confidence it's going to work out for you eventually. You might be right. (I hope you are!) But what "price" are you willing to pay to get there?
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upekkha
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by upekkha »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 1:09 pm
atailor85 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:10 pm My question to yall is - am I too late to start the investing game? and what can i do to see quick returns?!
1. no it's not too late.
2. investing is not a game. it's a process that allows you to draw on your investment capital after you exhaust your human capital. And because it's hard to just live on social security so you'll probably need something to supplement that.
3. you can't do anything to see quick returns.

all investing comes down to:
money (the more you invest, the more you're "likely" to make. The less you invest, the less you're "likely" to make)
time (the longer you invest, the more you're "likely" to make. The shorter you invest, the less you're "likely" to make)
rate of return (the higher the rate of return, the more youre "likely" to make. The lower the rate of return, the less you're "likely" to make)

there are no shortcuts to investing.

those who brag about getting rich quickly got lucky. understand the difference. luck is not a strategy.

if you want to get started, start here.

welcome to the group.
I could not have said it better.

In addition to the above, I didn't get serious about saving/investing until two years ago, and I just turned 52. It's never too late but will require a serious amount of discipline and perseverance. Welcome to the forum - you got this!
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan." - Carl Von Clausewitz
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ruralavalon
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by ruralavalon »

Welcome to the :) .

atailor85 wrote: Mon Jul 03, 2023 12:10 pm Hi there - 37 (almost 38) years old and I never really had a grip on my finances. Never had a high paying job. For reference, I coach basketball, was at one job and stayed in the same position for 6 years. It was a comfortable position, but I could never get promoted to the assistant coach level or even 1 position up the ladder. Took a bet on myself and left my full time job that paid about 55k and left for an internship in the NBA ($15/hour) :happy . It was the best job I've ever had from an experience standpoint.

My question to yall is - am I too late to start the investing game? and what can i do to see quick returns?!
No you are NOT to late to start. But forget the idea of getting "quick returns". I did not get serious about investing until about your age, and it has worked out fine.

Is there a tax-advantaged plan offered at work like a 401k, 403b, 467b, SEP IRA or SIMPLE IRA? If so is any employer match offered? Begin contributions to that plan.

Open an IRA a low cost provider like Vanguard, Fidelity or Schwab. The maximum annual contribution is $6.5k.

To start simply invest in a target date fund.

Contribute as much as is practical for you. Establishing a high rate of contributions is the most important investing decision you can make, forum discussion.

To begin your education on investing I suggest reading both Dr. Bernstein's short pdf book If You Can, and the wiki article "Bogleheads® investment philosophy", see the link in my signature below.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
Topic Author
atailor85
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by atailor85 »

SnowBog wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 11:13 pm
atailor85 wrote: Sun Jul 30, 2023 3:37 pm Sir (or ma'am), I just spent last year working as a coaching intern with an NBA team. This position is with an NBA team as well. As a non former NBA player these jobs are incredibly hard to come by. To me, these are the opportunities to chase. We don't have kids yet, but that's not very far into the future. I can make this work, just need multiple streams of income. The housing is included, health insurance is included. It would not be a huge expense to me financially mainly because the housing is included in this contract. Still waiting for them to send me the full terms. The contract period runs from like October to March/April. And the only way to advance up the ranks is to stay on the bus. I understand most forum members here don't see the workings of the NBA and athletics in general, but I'm going to find a way to make this thing work.
I'm assuming this was in relation to my prior post...

Maybe I've misread the situation... But from your prior posts, your spouse sounds like they are not on the same page as you...

So, I'd like to reiterate part of what I previously said...
SnowBog wrote: Fri Jul 21, 2023 12:35 pm OP - I get coaching is a passion for you...

Presumably you've been chasing your coaching dream for nearly 20 years now... and I can understand your spouses displeasure...

Now comes the "hard decision" for you... What's most important in your life?

If it's family, you need to have a frank discussion with your spouse. You may not like their answer - but you need to hear it.
Again, maybe I've misread the situation... Even if I'm right, I don't know why your spouse isn't on the same page as you. If it's financial - maybe they are willing to "invest" another year or so in hopes you get a payout from it... If it's not financial - then I think they are trying to tell you something... Maybe it's the "no kids" part, and they want that to be a bigger focus area. Or maybe it's the thought of "kids not very far into the future" and the idea of raising them with you not being around much (as it didn't sound like they were moving with you - even if they did I'd assume you'd be traveling a lot). Or maybe something else...

Bottom line - if you care about your spouse/family - you need to have a frank discussion with them. We can help in the financial pieces - but the non-financial ones are often more important.

ETA: To be more direct... If your dream job is so important to you that you are willing to risk your marriage/family... Then I assume you are also willing to risk your financial security as well. So I'm not sure how I can help you...

You are correct, I don't know how the internals of NBA teams work. I'm honestly in shock that they pay so poorly, especially if this is a step up from the intern position you previously had.

But I do understand there is only one head coach who makes the "big bucks", several people around them who likely make decent wages, and from the sounds of it many more people who make very little. Presumably all your "peers" want to move up as well - and obviously not everyone will (there aren't enough jobs at the top to fill).

Again - you seem completely OK with this, and have confidence it's going to work out for you eventually. You might be right. (I hope you are!) But what "price" are you willing to pay to get there?
sorry yes this was regarding your post - very highly competitive. this is indeed a step up from my previous position with a better run organization. probably also the last go i will have at this and i feel like i am turning the corner on making my way up the ladder. wife doesn't believe in me....might be time to leave her (kidding). it's important to me that our future kids get to grow up around this so that they know it's ok to pursue these careers in their lives because i was encouraged not to do so. call me a rebel if you will, but i want better for my future kids than i had it and i want them to have an easier time getting these jobs and opportunities to play at that level. they won't get there if i am not around that level. just my own thoughts. my plan was to more or less invest just about everything i make since my living situation will be paid for in this new position. wife is livid and not wanting to move (understandable). it's only about 6 months worth of work but that obviously feels like a longer time when you're in the moment of it than not. i feel the 6 months will fly by and if it doesn't lead to anything afterwards i will return to the boring 9-5 world and start a family with her. i hope it doesn't work out that way, the boring 9-5 world is awful. been there, done that, thats why i left it in the first place.
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atailor85
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Re: Is it too late for me to get started?

Post by atailor85 »

i guess i need to figure out how to create multiple streams of income without doing much work. like to make ~10k/month probably. any ideas?!
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