Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

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PatrickA5
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Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

DW and SIL will most likely receive an inheritance from VG in the $250K range from recently deceased FIL. I went out to the website and started reading up on the process and we even started inputting the required information before the system went down. Tried to call, but got a lengthy hold. Will try again later.

These are non-retirement accounts.

Anyway, does anybody have experience with this process? How did it go?

Do you set up VG accounts before they move the funds or does VG do that for you?

How long did the process take until you saw the funds in your own account?

Do both beneficiaries have to report the death, or can one do it for both? SIL has no clue on anything financial.

I assume they will automatically just split the mutual funds in two - one for each beneficiary?

Any problems, hiccups we should be looking out for?

Thanks.
Makefile
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by Makefile »

If it's a TOD account it should work as you describe. If not, the will determines what happens and the beneficiaries don't have the authority to distribute the account to themselves.
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CAsage
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by CAsage »

For a regular Vanguard account TOD to people - yes it was pretty seamless. My sibling and inherited from Dear Departed Parent a few years ago. Once we provided a death cert and we both had Vanguard accounts, it was quick. I would open an account now if you don't have one. I don't remember whether we provided one or two death certs, but I think one original and then copies would be fine. It was painless. I seem to recall they just split the one Total Bond fund in two for us. Then do as you please. They probably have a whole department that does this....
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Dave55
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by Dave55 »

PatrickA5 wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:26 pm DW and SIL will most likely receive an inheritance from VG in the $250K range from recently deceased FIL. I went out to the website and started reading up on the process and we even started inputting the required information before the system went down. Tried to call, but got a lengthy hold. Will try again later.

These are non-retirement accounts.

Anyway, does anybody have experience with this process? How did it go? Yes, went smoothly.

Do you set up VG accounts before they move the funds or does VG do that for you? VG does it for you, we did it after the death.

How long did the process take until you saw the funds in your own account? Within 1 week

Do both beneficiaries have to report the death, or can one do it for both? SIL has no clue on anything financial. If I recall, one death certificate was all that was needed for my siblings and self.

I assume they will automatically just split the mutual funds in two - one for each beneficiary? Yes

Any problems, hiccups we should be looking out for? We had none.

Thanks.
Dave
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jebmke
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by jebmke »

My wife received one. It went flawlessly and almost instantly. VG to VG.
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miket29
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by miket29 »

Were they ordinary brokerage accounts or brokerage accounts held by a revocable trust? Did the accounts have beneficiaries listed which would make them TOD (transfer on death) accounts? If not held by a trust and/nor not having beneficiaries listed, does a will exist?

Different things happen in these 3 scenarios.
2behappytoday
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by 2behappytoday »

My inheritance experience 11 months ago was easy and painless; deceased's two mutual funds were TOD, split 50:50 between me and sibling. I did everything online, including setting up my own brokerage account and uploading the death certificate. The funds were in my account in three business days, although website said to expect it to take 7-10 business days to be transferred. Again online, I exchanged to the fund I wanted, defined my primary and contingent beneficiaries and was done. I advised sibling to do the same and experience was also smooth and quick - I do not know if the death certificate had to be uploaded again.
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chickadee
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by chickadee »

I’ll give you a pro tip. When navigating the phone tree, they will give you a choice of trust or no trust. Choose trust, even if it’s not in a trust. The folks that staff that team are a cut above the general inheritance line. A Vanguard person actually gave me this tip when I was getting stuck in low level hell with multiple calls and everyone giving different answers to the same questions.
Last edited by chickadee on Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

miket29 wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:47 pm Were they ordinary brokerage accounts or brokerage accounts held by a revocable trust? Did the accounts have beneficiaries listed which would make them TOD (transfer on death) accounts? If not held by a trust and/nor not having beneficiaries listed, does a will exist?

Different things happen in these 3 scenarios.
I've found one piece of paper that show DW and SIL as beneficiaries from about 6 months ago. He is leaving his wife the VG IRA. I'm pretty sure his wife isn't on the taxable account, but won't know for sure until we officially see what he has. The account in question is just an ordinary brokerage account with 3 mutual funds.
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chickadee
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by chickadee »

If an account doesn’t have a TOD or beneficiary explicitly listed, the disposition is governed by the will. Beneficiaries always trump the will as well.
Last edited by chickadee on Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

2behappytoday wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:57 pm My inheritance experience 11 months ago was easy and painless; deceased's two mutual funds were TOD, split 50:50 between me and sibling. I did everything online, including setting up my own brokerage account and uploading the death certificate. The funds were in my account in three business days, although website said to expect it to take 7-10 business days to be transferred. Again online, I exchanged to the fund I wanted, defined my primary and contingent beneficiaries and was done. I advised sibling to do the same and experience was also smooth and quick - I do not know if the death certificate had to be uploaded again.
Would it be best to have the account set up as joint (me/DW) before the process or just change it to joint afterward?

PS. all of our money (other than IRAs) are joint - including inheritances.
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

chickadee wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:03 pm If an account doesn’t have a TOD or beneficiary explicitly listed, the disposition is governed by the will.
Right. We're hoping they are TOD, but it doesn't show any beneficiary information on the monthly statements he got. I have no online access to look at.
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chickadee
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by chickadee »

I’m pretty sure the inheritance must be a solo account. You could perhaps move the money to a joint account or to another brokerage in a second step.

Vanguard has a step by step process. Seems like if there’s a TOD on the account, that’s apparent in the “wizard” tool. How far can get you get with it? It’s been a few months since I used it.

https://investor.vanguard.com/inheriting-accounts

Sibling also has to go through same steps, but once the death certificate is attached to Dad’s account, I don’t think they ask for it again. No big deal if they do, just make a high resolution PDF of it.

Who is the executor? DW?
Last edited by chickadee on Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

2behappytoday wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 3:57 pm My inheritance experience 11 months ago was easy and painless; deceased's two mutual funds were TOD, split 50:50 between me and sibling. I did everything online, including setting up my own brokerage account and uploading the death certificate. The funds were in my account in three business days, although website said to expect it to take 7-10 business days to be transferred. Again online, I exchanged to the fund I wanted, defined my primary and contingent beneficiaries and was done. I advised sibling to do the same and experience was also smooth and quick - I do not know if the death certificate had to be uploaded again.

Thanks.
Did your sibling also have to go through the online process that you did?
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

chickadee wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:06 pm I’m pretty sure the inheritance must be a solo account. You could perhaps move the money to a joint account or to another brokerage in a second step.
Thanks. Yeah, probably better not to muddy up the waters too much by trying to have the money go to a joint account.
2behappytoday
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by 2behappytoday »

Yes, my sibling used the same online process. I have verified that it was not necessary for the death certificate to be uploaded again. Sibling holds all investments at Fidelity so converted the Vanguard mutual funds to equivalent ETFs and had Fidelity pull the Vanguard holdings over.
UNCHEEL
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by UNCHEEL »

I haven't been through this (yet) at Vanguard, but other brokerages have specialized group to manage estates. For simplicity, make sure they adjust the cost basis for the assets before they move. (You can sell the assets and move cash, or move the assets themselves.) On some assets I moved INTO VG from Wells Fargo, WF had reset the stocks, but not the bonds. After the transfer, VG wouldn't change the basis. I was given the option of moving the bonds BACK to WF, getting the basis changed there, and then bringing them over again. I ended up leaving things as they were and manually making the correction each time a bond was sold/called. Silly nuisance. Fortunately, the IRS didn't raise an issue.
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by Big Dog »

chickadee wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 4:06 pm I’m pretty sure the inheritance must be a solo account. You could perhaps move the money to a joint account or to another brokerage in a second step.

Vanguard has a step by step process. Seems like if there’s a TOD on the account, that’s apparent in the “wizard” tool. How far can get you get with it? It’s been a few months since I used it.

https://investor.vanguard.com/inheriting-accounts

Sibling also has to go through same steps, but once the death certificate is attached to Dad’s account, I don’t think they ask for it again. No big deal if they do, just make a high resolution PDF of it.

Who is the executor? DW?
When my mom passed, a few years back, the Vanguard inheritance folks were great. I had an exisiing account but my sister did not, so they had her call and they completed the application form while she was on the phone. They then mailed it to her for original signature. I don't recall if they put the brokerage account stuff into my Joint account, (or a solo account which I then consolidated), but the inherited IRA went into my name only.

CA is not very quick with death certs, so all account info was ready to go when we finally got the certified death cert, which I mailed in. It took ~3 business days from receipt of the death cert to move 50% of mom's balance into my accounts. They even got the correct cost basis on date of death.
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

Update: Well, the process is off to a rocky start. We tried several times to use the website, but always got a message to call customer service before anything was finalized. Spent a couple of hours talking to a nice guy in the Accounts Transfers department and he couldn't get the online system to work either. So, we emailed the death certificate and are awaiting further instructions.

T. Rowe Price seems to be moving along better.
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

Update #2

T. Rowe Price showed up correctly 3 days after first contact.

Vanguard - Ugh. We called to see what the status was after working with Representative #1 a few days earlier. Representative #2 said there was nothing in the system. She basically said the first guy didn't know what he was doing and she would do it "her" way. I explained that our first attempt at DIY on the website didn't work, so that's why we had Rep #1 help us. Her reply was the website only works about half the time and she doesn't use it anymore. She said to check DW's account in 10 business days and see if the money shows up. I guess we'll see what happens.
2behappytoday
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by 2behappytoday »

Wow, what a difference a year makes! I am so sorry you are not having an easy time getting this done like I did.
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

Update #3

Well, just when I thought things couldn't get worse, VG inheritance department decides that the beneficiary on the IRA should be applied to all accounts. DW is a beneficiary on an individual brokerage account, but NOT on the IRA. So VG applies the beneficiary of the IRA (FIL's second wife) to the individual account also. They wanted DW to send in a death certificate of 2nd wife (not deceased) in order for DW to collect. DW is PRIMARY on the individual account and 2nd wife is not on it at all. UGH!

What's even worse is 2nd wife hasn't even started the process to inherit the IRA. We were going to help her do this since she's can't really handle this stuff. VG representative suggested we make sure DW's inheritance comes through first before helping 2nd wife and DW's sister with their parts.
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by aristotelian »

PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:54 am Update #3

Well, just when I thought things couldn't get worse, VG inheritance department decides that the beneficiary on the IRA should be applied to all accounts. DW is a beneficiary on an individual brokerage account, but NOT on the IRA. So VG applies the beneficiary of the IRA (FIL's second wife) to the individual account also. They wanted DW to send in a death certificate of 2nd wife (not deceased) in order for DW to collect. DW is PRIMARY on the individual account and 2nd wife is not on it at all. UGH!

What's even worse is 2nd wife hasn't even started the process to inherit the IRA. We were going to help her do this since she's can't really handle this stuff. VG representative suggested we make sure DW's inheritance comes through first before helping 2nd wife and DW's sister with their parts.
Transferring an account to the wrong beneficiary would be a major no-no. Vanguard cannot "decide" what beneficiary to use unless beneficiaries were not named. Are you sure your wife is the beneficiary? Do you have recent proof to validate this? Vanguard often takes a long time but I would usually trust them not to make a major mistake on something so important. Good luck getting it resolved.
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

aristotelian wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:27 am
PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:54 am Update #3

Well, just when I thought things couldn't get worse, VG inheritance department decides that the beneficiary on the IRA should be applied to all accounts. DW is a beneficiary on an individual brokerage account, but NOT on the IRA. So VG applies the beneficiary of the IRA (FIL's second wife) to the individual account also. They wanted DW to send in a death certificate of 2nd wife (not deceased) in order for DW to collect. DW is PRIMARY on the individual account and 2nd wife is not on it at all. UGH!

What's even worse is 2nd wife hasn't even started the process to inherit the IRA. We were going to help her do this since she's can't really handle this stuff. VG representative suggested we make sure DW's inheritance comes through first before helping 2nd wife and DW's sister with their parts.
Transferring an account to the wrong beneficiary would be a major no-no. Vanguard cannot "decide" what beneficiary to use unless beneficiaries were not named. Are you sure your wife is the beneficiary? Do you have recent proof to validate this? Vanguard often takes a long time but I would usually trust them not to make a major mistake on something so important. Good luck getting it resolved.
Yes, we're sure. The latest representative could see that DW was a 50% primary beneficiary on her screen. She said that the person in the transfers department accidentally looked up the beneficiary for the IRA and used it on the brokerage account. So, basically VG just looked at the first account that showed up (IRA) and decided to use those same beneficiaries on all accounts. What's really perplexing is no beneficiary of the IRA has even contacted Vanguard yet.

I guess it might be a best practice to try and use the same beneficiaries (and percentages) on all accounts at the same brokerage - if possible.
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by Big Dog »

"What's really perplexing is no beneficiary of the IRA has even contacted Vanguard yet."

Who is the Executor/Personal Representative? Eventually, a brokerage would reach out to the PR for contact info of a named beneficiary if the brokerage cannot reach them. Regardless, unless your wife is a named beneficiary on the IRA, why does it matter?


"I guess it might be a best practice to try and use the same beneficiaries (and percentages) on all accounts at the same brokerage - if possible."

Nearly impossible at Vanguard with joint-owned brokerage accounts, unless the spouse is the sole and only beneficiary.
aristotelian
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by aristotelian »

PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:44 am
aristotelian wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:27 am
PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:54 am Update #3

Well, just when I thought things couldn't get worse, VG inheritance department decides that the beneficiary on the IRA should be applied to all accounts. DW is a beneficiary on an individual brokerage account, but NOT on the IRA. So VG applies the beneficiary of the IRA (FIL's second wife) to the individual account also. They wanted DW to send in a death certificate of 2nd wife (not deceased) in order for DW to collect. DW is PRIMARY on the individual account and 2nd wife is not on it at all. UGH!

What's even worse is 2nd wife hasn't even started the process to inherit the IRA. We were going to help her do this since she's can't really handle this stuff. VG representative suggested we make sure DW's inheritance comes through first before helping 2nd wife and DW's sister with their parts.
Transferring an account to the wrong beneficiary would be a major no-no. Vanguard cannot "decide" what beneficiary to use unless beneficiaries were not named. Are you sure your wife is the beneficiary? Do you have recent proof to validate this? Vanguard often takes a long time but I would usually trust them not to make a major mistake on something so important. Good luck getting it resolved.
Yes, we're sure. The latest representative could see that DW was a 50% primary beneficiary on her screen. She said that the person in the transfers department accidentally looked up the beneficiary for the IRA and used it on the brokerage account. So, basically VG just looked at the first account that showed up (IRA) and decided to use those same beneficiaries on all accounts. What's really perplexing is no beneficiary of the IRA has even contacted Vanguard yet.

I guess it might be a best practice to try and use the same beneficiaries (and percentages) on all accounts at the same brokerage - if possible.
No, Vanguard should absolutely be able to handle different beneficiaries and should have safeguards in place to keep their reps from changing them at will. Don't blame the victim here. This is shockingly bad service by Vanguard.
Last edited by aristotelian on Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

Big Dog wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:59 am "What's really perplexing is no beneficiary of the IRA has even contacted Vanguard yet."

Who is the Executor/Personal Representative? Eventually, a brokerage would reach out to the PR for contact info of a named beneficiary if the brokerage cannot reach them. Regardless, unless your wife is a named beneficiary on the IRA, why does it matter?


"I guess it might be a best practice to try and use the same beneficiaries (and percentages) on all accounts at the same brokerage - if possible."

Nearly impossible at Vanguard with joint-owned brokerage accounts, unless the spouse is the sole and only beneficiary.
My wife is the Executor, not that that has anything to do with this particular scenerio involving beneficiaries. There may not even be a probate, so the Executor may not be involved at all. We're still working out one asset involving I-Bonds that might require probate. Everything else is Joint/POD/TOD.

My wife is a "Secondary" beneficiary of the IRA. FIL's 2nd wife is the "primary" beneficiary and will be the one receiving the IRA. Since DW is the only person that has contacted VG, she was the one that was contacted regarding the IRA. VG contacted her wanting her to provide a death certificate of the "primary" (FIL's 2nd wife - not deceased). VG stated that "2nd wife" was Primary on all accounts and DW (and sister) was secondary. We nearly fell on the floor when the rep said that. DW said "no, I'm primary on the brokerage account and secondary on the IRA". The representative then looked at the actual beneficiaries online and agreed that that was correct and said the person actually transferring the accounts somehow used the IRA designation for both the IRA and the brokerage account.

Regarding Joint accounts not having beneficiaries, that was a reason why we moved all of our accounts from VG to Fidelity a couple of years ago. We'll be moving this inheritance to Fidelity very quickly.
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by RetiredAL »

aristotelian wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 12:09 pm
PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:44 am
aristotelian wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 11:27 am
PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:54 am Update #3

Well, just when I thought things couldn't get worse, VG inheritance department decides that the beneficiary on the IRA should be applied to all accounts. DW is a beneficiary on an individual brokerage account, but NOT on the IRA. So VG applies the beneficiary of the IRA (FIL's second wife) to the individual account also. They wanted DW to send in a death certificate of 2nd wife (not deceased) in order for DW to collect. DW is PRIMARY on the individual account and 2nd wife is not on it at all. UGH!

What's even worse is 2nd wife hasn't even started the process to inherit the IRA. We were going to help her do this since she's can't really handle this stuff. VG representative suggested we make sure DW's inheritance comes through first before helping 2nd wife and DW's sister with their parts.
Transferring an account to the wrong beneficiary would be a major no-no. Vanguard cannot "decide" what beneficiary to use unless beneficiaries were not named. Are you sure your wife is the beneficiary? Do you have recent proof to validate this? Vanguard often takes a long time but I would usually trust them not to make a major mistake on something so important. Good luck getting it resolved.
Yes, we're sure. The latest representative could see that DW was a 50% primary beneficiary on her screen. She said that the person in the transfers department accidentally looked up the beneficiary for the IRA and used it on the brokerage account. So, basically VG just looked at the first account that showed up (IRA) and decided to use those same beneficiaries on all accounts. What's really perplexing is no beneficiary of the IRA has even contacted Vanguard yet.

I guess it might be a best practice to try and use the same beneficiaries (and percentages) on all accounts at the same brokerage - if possible.
No, Vanguard should absolutely be able to hand different beneficiaries and should have safeguards in place to keep their reps from changing them at will. Don't blame the victim here. This is shockingly bad service by Vanguard.
As a prudent thing, every one should have prints of the Bene's assigned to each account.

For my recently passed Dad, we had the original paper form, submitted 3 years previous, plus yearly screen prints of the Bene List.

DW and I have Fidelity and Schwab accounts. Both have online updates to the Bene List, which in my opinion, allows a window of access by a bad actor. So we sign the online screen prints done each year as additional protection, however small that is.

Having someone at a financial house being able to access this, to me, is not an issue. What's important is that the ability to change is tightly controlled.
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

To FIL's credit, he did have a printout of the beneficiaries for both the IRA and Brokerage accounts. DW thought that she (and sister) were 50/50 on both accounts, but he changed the IRA within the last year.

We didn't have a problem with his wife getting the IRA. She's been a wonderful spouse the last couple of years. They got married in their mid-80's. He also gave her a Life Estate in his house (DW and Sister are joint owners). So, that's another issue that we'll be dealing with going forward.
retire2022
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by retire2022 »

op

If the funds are in taxable account, it is "stepped up basis at death".

see link: https://taxfoundation.org/tax-basics/step-up-in-basis/

This link includes a power point discussion on real estate as well as other equities and handling of other inherited accounts

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/21_-_in ... _basis.pdf

Inherited stock discussion and calculating FMV

https://www.chase.com/personal/investme ... ited-stock
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

retire2022 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:13 pm op

If the funds are in taxable account, it is "stepped up basis at death".

see link: https://taxfoundation.org/tax-basics/step-up-in-basis/

This link includes a power point discussion on real estate as well as other equities and handling of other inherited accounts

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/21_-_in ... _basis.pdf

Inherited stock discussion and calculating FMV

https://www.chase.com/personal/investme ... ited-stock
Thanks. I'm just hoping VG gets the basis right. Worked out fine at T. Rowe Price.
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:24 pm
retire2022 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:13 pm op

If the funds are in taxable account, it is "stepped up basis at death".

see link: https://taxfoundation.org/tax-basics/step-up-in-basis/

This link includes a power point discussion on real estate as well as other equities and handling of other inherited accounts

https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-utl/21_-_in ... _basis.pdf

Inherited stock discussion and calculating FMV

https://www.chase.com/personal/investme ... ited-stock
Unfortunately, there will be no step-up basis on his house. He put DW and Sister as joint owners a few years ago against my recommendation not to. They will take a small tax hit when the house is sold - which won't be until his wife moves out - due to her Life Estate.
retire2022
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by retire2022 »

PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:24 pm
Thanks. I'm just hoping VG gets the basis right. Worked out fine at T. Rowe Price.
You are welcomed.

Here is my mother story on transferring from TRowe Price to Vanguard (IRA).

I know you did not mention any tax deferred accounts but be aware SECURE Act 2.0 changed the stretch provision.

This may impact your accounts.

see link: https://www.kitces.com/blog/secure-act- ... oan-match/

My mother was 89 passed in March 2020 and she left me her traditional IRA as I was her sole only beneficiary, a small account at 24k.

I contacted TRowe Price to "push" the account to Vanguard.

Vanguard informed me through a transfer specialist that I need to retitle her IRA under my name and TIN number.

Once that was done, the equity was transferred "pulled" in kind to Vanguard as no lost out of the market, that took about a week, three weeks later everything was wrapped up and landed in Vanguard without a hiccup.
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chickadee
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by chickadee »

Don’t count on Vanguard to do anything correctly. Vanguard will probably not get the basis right, they certainly didn’t without significant prodding from us. I had to write a letter explaining that there is an 100% step up in basis in community property states (they had stepped up only half) and had to include letters testamentary and upload to secure email.

My tip above stands to contact the trusts department during the phone tree even if it’s not a trust. This specific “death” department seems to have decent reps to help with account transfers. Sounds like you let first rung people try to handle this and they screwed it up. We had the same experience.

It took many weeks to get my father’s accounts sorted out and many many phone calls. If they ever get it sorted, including the correct basis, I’d then move the money to Fidelity as soon as you can.

The tale above about them screwing up the beneficiaries is chilling. I wish some of the Vanguard brokerage boosting folks on this forum would read these tales, but I think they believe what they want to believe. Their heirs will find out the truth.
Last edited by chickadee on Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:28 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Big Dog
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by Big Dog »

"My wife is the Executor, not that that has anything to do with this particular scenerio involving beneficiaries."

Actually it does. As Executor, she can speak to Vanguard, or at least Vanguard will speak with her. Not necessarily about who gets what, but about the death in general terms. She can provide a certified copy of the death cert. (They should only need one.). She can ask questions: does every account have a named beneficiary? If not, does that account need to go thru probate or be processed in accordance to the will? Do you have updated contact info for all named beneficiaries. What else do you need to start transferring the assets per the PoD/ToD?
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

Big Dog wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:21 pm "My wife is the Executor, not that that has anything to do with this particular scenerio involving beneficiaries."

Actually it does. As Executor, she can speak to Vanguard, or at least Vanguard will speak with her. Not necessarily about who gets what, but about the death in general terms. She can provide a certified copy of the death cert. (They should only need one.). She can ask questions: does every account have a named beneficiary? If not, does that account need to go thru probate or be processed in accordance to the will? Do you have updated contact info for all named beneficiaries. What else do you need to start transferring the assets per the PoD/ToD?
Thanks,

Just curious. Can an Executor that never gets appointed officially (through the probate court) talk to brokerages, banks, etc in any kind of a legal capacity? It's not needed in our case, but just wondering?
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

retire2022 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:38 pm
PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 1:24 pm
Thanks. I'm just hoping VG gets the basis right. Worked out fine at T. Rowe Price.
You are welcomed.

Here is my mother story on transferring from TRowe Price to Vanguard (IRA).

I know you did not mention any tax deferred accounts but be aware SECURE Act 2.0 changed the stretch provision.

This may impact your accounts.

see link: https://www.kitces.com/blog/secure-act- ... oan-match/

My mother was 89 passed in March 2020 and she left me her traditional IRA as I was her sole only beneficiary, a small account at 24k.

I contacted TRowe Price to "push" the account to Vanguard.

Vanguard informed me through a transfer specialist that I need to retitle her IRA under my name and TIN number.

Once that was done, the equity was transferred "pulled" in kind to Vanguard as no lost out of the market, that took about a week, three weeks later everything was wrapped up and landed in Vanguard without a hiccup.
Thanks for the information.

In our case, the IRA will go to his wife. So, I assume she'll just make it her own IRA and start with the RMDs based on her life expectancy.
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by Big Dog »

PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:39 pm
Big Dog wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:21 pm "My wife is the Executor, not that that has anything to do with this particular scenerio involving beneficiaries."

Actually it does. As Executor, she can speak to Vanguard, or at least Vanguard will speak with her. Not necessarily about who gets what, but about the death in general terms. She can provide a certified copy of the death cert. (They should only need one.). She can ask questions: does every account have a named beneficiary? If not, does that account need to go thru probate or be processed in accordance to the will? Do you have updated contact info for all named beneficiaries. What else do you need to start transferring the assets per the PoD/ToD?
Thanks,

Just curious. Can an Executor that never gets appointed officially (through the probate court) talk to brokerages, banks, etc in any kind of a legal capacity? It's not needed in our case, but just wondering?
Absolutely. Many, many estates are closed outside of probate court. For example, in CA we have an exemption (from probate) for small estates. (Note, accounts with PoD/ToD are excluded from counting as part of the estate in this case.) But the Personal Representative/Executor still performs his/her duties.

When my parents passed, and I called the bank/brokerage/utility company, the first thing they asked we was my role, i.e., if I was the Personal Representative. Most took my word for it, but others said, 'ok, we'll send you a from to complete and notarize as PR before we speak to you, and/or, we want to see a copy of the will/trust naming you PR, or a doc from the probate court doing same.'
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

Big Dog wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:53 pm
PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:39 pm
Big Dog wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:21 pm "My wife is the Executor, not that that has anything to do with this particular scenerio involving beneficiaries."

Actually it does. As Executor, she can speak to Vanguard, or at least Vanguard will speak with her. Not necessarily about who gets what, but about the death in general terms. She can provide a certified copy of the death cert. (They should only need one.). She can ask questions: does every account have a named beneficiary? If not, does that account need to go thru probate or be processed in accordance to the will? Do you have updated contact info for all named beneficiaries. What else do you need to start transferring the assets per the PoD/ToD?
Thanks,

Just curious. Can an Executor that never gets appointed officially (through the probate court) talk to brokerages, banks, etc in any kind of a legal capacity? It's not needed in our case, but just wondering?
Absolutely. Many, many estates are closed outside of probate court. For example, in CA we have an exemption (from probate) for small estates. (Note, accounts with PoD/ToD are excluded from counting as part of the estate in this case.) But the Personal Representative/Executor still performs his/her duties.

When my parents passed, and I called the bank/brokerage/utility company, the first thing they asked we was my role, i.e., if I was the Personal Representative. Most took my word for it, but others said, 'ok, we'll send you a from to complete and notarize as PR before we speak to you, and/or, we want to see a copy of the will/trust naming you PR, or a doc from the probate court doing same.'
I know when I was handling my dad's estate, one of the financial institutions wanted something from the court stating that I was appointed executor/administrator. I told them there will not be any probate so they won't be getting anything from the court. I can't remember exactly how it worked out, but I think they just ended up taking my word for it.
Big Dog
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by Big Dog »

PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 4:06 pm
Big Dog wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:53 pm
PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:39 pm
Big Dog wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 2:21 pm "My wife is the Executor, not that that has anything to do with this particular scenerio involving beneficiaries."

Actually it does. As Executor, she can speak to Vanguard, or at least Vanguard will speak with her. Not necessarily about who gets what, but about the death in general terms. She can provide a certified copy of the death cert. (They should only need one.). She can ask questions: does every account have a named beneficiary? If not, does that account need to go thru probate or be processed in accordance to the will? Do you have updated contact info for all named beneficiaries. What else do you need to start transferring the assets per the PoD/ToD?
Thanks,

Just curious. Can an Executor that never gets appointed officially (through the probate court) talk to brokerages, banks, etc in any kind of a legal capacity? It's not needed in our case, but just wondering?
Absolutely. Many, many estates are closed outside of probate court. For example, in CA we have an exemption (from probate) for small estates. (Note, accounts with PoD/ToD are excluded from counting as part of the estate in this case.) But the Personal Representative/Executor still performs his/her duties.

When my parents passed, and I called the bank/brokerage/utility company, the first thing they asked we was my role, i.e., if I was the Personal Representative. Most took my word for it, but others said, 'ok, we'll send you a from to complete and notarize as PR before we speak to you, and/or, we want to see a copy of the will/trust naming you PR, or a doc from the probate court doing same.'
I know when I was handling my dad's estate, one of the financial institutions wanted something from the court stating that I was appointed executor/administrator. I told them there will not be any probate so they won't be getting anything from the court. I can't remember exactly how it worked out, but I think they just ended up taking my word for it.
My state, CA, has a declaratory form that can be completed and notarized by the PR which essentially says, 'estate exempt from probate court.
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PatrickA5
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by PatrickA5 »

Update: Funds showed up in DW's account today! No tax basis shows up yet, but maybe that take a few days?

Now we get to help SIL get her 50% of the brokerage account and FIL's 2nd wife get her 100% of the IRA.
aristotelian
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by aristotelian »

Big Dog wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:53 pm
PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:39 pm Thanks,

Just curious. Can an Executor that never gets appointed officially (through the probate court) talk to brokerages, banks, etc in any kind of a legal capacity? It's not needed in our case, but just wondering?
Absolutely. Many, many estates are closed outside of probate court. For example, in CA we have an exemption (from probate) for small estates. (Note, accounts with PoD/ToD are excluded from counting as part of the estate in this case.) But the Personal Representative/Executor still performs his/her duties.

When my parents passed, and I called the bank/brokerage/utility company, the first thing they asked we was my role, i.e., if I was the Personal Representative. Most took my word for it, but others said, 'ok, we'll send you a from to complete and notarize as PR before we speak to you, and/or, we want to see a copy of the will/trust naming you PR, or a doc from the probate court doing same.'
I think you will still need a "small estate affidavit", which is simpler than probate but still requires going to court and getting a document approved to be named personal representative. Maybe the brokerage will "take your word for it" but you will still want to go through that process.
aristotelian
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by aristotelian »

PatrickA5 wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 8:35 am Update: Funds showed up in DW's account today! No tax basis shows up yet, but maybe that take a few days?

Now we get to help SIL get her 50% of the brokerage account and FIL's 2nd wife get her 100% of the IRA.
... And move your DW account to Schwab?
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by exodusing »

Do look at the revised basis numbers carefully. When I was an executor, Vanguard produced different basis numbers for different lots of the same stock, which is obviously wrong, since they should all have been the number as of the date of death.
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by Big Dog »

aristotelian wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:22 am
Big Dog wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:53 pm
PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 3:39 pm Thanks,

Just curious. Can an Executor that never gets appointed officially (through the probate court) talk to brokerages, banks, etc in any kind of a legal capacity? It's not needed in our case, but just wondering?
Absolutely. Many, many estates are closed outside of probate court. For example, in CA we have an exemption (from probate) for small estates. (Note, accounts with PoD/ToD are excluded from counting as part of the estate in this case.) But the Personal Representative/Executor still performs his/her duties.

When my parents passed, and I called the bank/brokerage/utility company, the first thing they asked we was my role, i.e., if I was the Personal Representative. Most took my word for it, but others said, 'ok, we'll send you a from to complete and notarize as PR before we speak to you, and/or, we want to see a copy of the will/trust naming you PR, or a doc from the probate court doing same.'
I think you will still need a "small estate affidavit", which is simpler than probate but still requires going to court and getting a document approved to be named personal representative. Maybe the brokerage will "take your word for it" but you will still want to go through that process.
Depends on the State, but not necessarily in California.

"If you have the legal right to inherit personal property, like money in a bank account or stocks, and the estate is worth $166,250 or less, you may NOT have to go to court. There is a simplified process you can use to transfer the property to your name. "

https://www.courts.ca.gov/10440.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en
aristotelian
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by aristotelian »

Big Dog wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:42 am
aristotelian wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:22 am
I think you will still need a "small estate affidavit", which is simpler than probate but still requires going to court and getting a document approved to be named personal representative. Maybe the brokerage will "take your word for it" but you will still want to go through that process.
Depends on the State, but not necessarily in California.

"If you have the legal right to inherit personal property, like money in a bank account or stocks, and the estate is worth $166,250 or less, you may NOT have to go to court. There is a simplified process you can use to transfer the property to your name. "

https://www.courts.ca.gov/10440.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en
Sorry, I should have said "through". I didn't mean you will necessarily need to physically go there. The point being, even if an estate is not probated you still need a small estate affidavit or whatever it's called in your state.
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by Big Dog »

aristotelian wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:47 am
Big Dog wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:42 am
aristotelian wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 9:22 am
I think you will still need a "small estate affidavit", which is simpler than probate but still requires going to court and getting a document approved to be named personal representative. Maybe the brokerage will "take your word for it" but you will still want to go through that process.
Depends on the State, but not necessarily in California.

"If you have the legal right to inherit personal property, like money in a bank account or stocks, and the estate is worth $166,250 or less, you may NOT have to go to court. There is a simplified process you can use to transfer the property to your name. "

https://www.courts.ca.gov/10440.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en
Sorry, I should have said "through". I didn't mean you will necessarily need to physically go there. The point being, even if an estate is not probated you still need a small estate affidavit or whatever it's called in your state.
And the word "through" is also incorrect. For small estate in CA that meets all the rules, there is NO need to go to, or through, or even notify the probate court.
aristotelian
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by aristotelian »

Big Dog wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:50 am
aristotelian wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:47 am
Big Dog wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:42 am
Depends on the State, but not necessarily in California.

"If you have the legal right to inherit personal property, like money in a bank account or stocks, and the estate is worth $166,250 or less, you may NOT have to go to court. There is a simplified process you can use to transfer the property to your name. "

https://www.courts.ca.gov/10440.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en
Sorry, I should have said "through". I didn't mean you will necessarily need to physically go there. The point being, even if an estate is not probated you still need a small estate affidavit or whatever it's called in your state.
And the word "through" is also incorrect. For small estate in CA that meets all the rules, there is NO need to go to, or through, or even notify the probate court.
Interesting, but you still need an affidavit and you get it "from" the court, correct? Maybe this is semantic but I would still consider that going "through" the court.
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by Big Dog »

aristotelian wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:58 am
Big Dog wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:50 am
aristotelian wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:47 am
Big Dog wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 10:42 am
Depends on the State, but not necessarily in California.

"If you have the legal right to inherit personal property, like money in a bank account or stocks, and the estate is worth $166,250 or less, you may NOT have to go to court. There is a simplified process you can use to transfer the property to your name. "

https://www.courts.ca.gov/10440.htm?rdeLocaleAttr=en
Sorry, I should have said "through". I didn't mean you will necessarily need to physically go there. The point being, even if an estate is not probated you still need a small estate affidavit or whatever it's called in your state.
And the word "through" is also incorrect. For small estate in CA that meets all the rules, there is NO need to go to, or through, or even notify the probate court.
Interesting, but you still need an affidavit and you get it "from" the court, correct? Maybe this is semantic but I would still consider that going "through" the court.

The state-approved form itself is rather generic and is available online from local county clerk, from free legal services*, and from online for-profit doc companies, or from a bank/brokerage/life insurer that wants you to use their own formatted, but similar form. But note, State law does not require that you use any special form, just that the info in the affidavit covers certain items at a minimum.

*a free site sponsored by the local bar assoc.

https://saclaw.org/wp-content/uploads/2 ... operty.pdf
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Re: Anyone receive and inheritance from Vanguard?

Post by beyou »

PatrickA5 wrote: Wed Feb 08, 2023 9:54 am Update #3

Well, just when I thought things couldn't get worse, VG inheritance department decides that the beneficiary on the IRA should be applied to all accounts. DW is a beneficiary on an individual brokerage account, but NOT on the IRA. So VG applies the beneficiary of the IRA (FIL's second wife) to the individual account also. They wanted DW to send in a death certificate of 2nd wife (not deceased) in order for DW to collect. DW is PRIMARY on the individual account and 2nd wife is not on it at all. UGH!
Read the FAQ on vanguard.com

Can I have different beneficiaries for each of my IRAs?

No. If you have multiple Vanguard IRAs of the same type—for example, 2 traditional IRAs—the beneficiaries you designate on one of them will carry over to all of them. However, you can choose different beneficiaries for your Roth and traditional IRAs.

Clearly their staff interpreted this rule incorrectly in your case, or fat fingered and applied to more accounts than were required.
What I don't understand about you comment, is didn't you/your family edit the beneficiaries online ?
When you do so only it is very clear how to edit beneficiaries to have different ones on different accounts, and also possible to make them all the same.
The above FAQ seems to be the only restriction documented.
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