Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

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fancyrick63
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Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by fancyrick63 »

Would like to get the Forum's opinion regarding Vanguard Personal Advisor Services. I have been with Vanguard for some 10 years or so utilizing the PAS and have in large part been satisfied with the service. However during much of that time the market has been on the up swing. During that time I generally meet with an advisor via phone/video every quarter or so. Vanguard uses a template, as do many, according to your risk tolerance and the amount you have to invest. Vanguard generally recommends to stay the course and that has worked relatively will up until the latest downturn.

Plan to ask specific questions related to our current portfolio at a later day. I will provide specifics then, but currently as I stated earlier I would like to hear members of the forums opinions/experiences with Vanguards Personal Advisor Services.

Personal info: 74, married no outstanding debts live of SS and pension. Investments are not being used presently. What promoted all is the dramatic market downturn and Vanguards seemingly new direction of wanting to move into more into managed funds.

Thank you for your impute.
dbr
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by dbr »

There are previous threads on the topic that you can read now while waiting for people to reply:

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... ry+service
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HMSVictory
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by HMSVictory »

Hello Fancyrick,

I think the cost (30 bps) for what you are getting is very reasonable. There is no magic sauce in using an advisor and your AA will determine your performance and volatility. An advisor can not protect you from a downturn - only you can. Buffer assets and or reducing your draw are the best strategies to sidestep drawing on your portfolio when both stocks and bonds are down.

If you have no need of any income from your portfolio you can be anywhere from 100% stock to 30% stock/70% bond. I wouldn't do less than 30/70 due to the tyrannical cost of inflation.

My mother came to me about 8-9 years ago and asked if I would help manage her portfolio in retirement. I suggested that she hire PAS and has been using them every since. I help her with overall strategy and spending but allow PAS to handle the day to day stuff. She's been a flagship investor for a while so was used to having her own advisor at Vanguard. I find the advice they give her to be well grounded and very, very conservative. Her AA is 55/45 stock to bond and her draw rate is less than 2% of the portfolio. Recently they have tried to push the advisor only funds for her and we declined to use them (she already has a large part of her portfolio in active Vanguard funds which she is not selling due to tax implications). On the whole she is very happy with the service she is getting and one huge benefit of using an advisor (especially for an heir who may not be used to managing money) is that they do help you stay the course.

Stay the Course has worked for over 100 years and will continue to work moving forward. Tune the noise out and you will be fine.
Stay the course!
exodusNH
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by exodusNH »

fancyrick63 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:20 am Would like to get the Forum's opinion regarding Vanguard Personal Advisor Services. I have been with Vanguard for some 10 years or so utilizing the PAS and have in large part been satisfied with the service. However during much of that time the market has been on the up swing. During that time I generally meet with an advisor via phone/video every quarter or so. Vanguard uses a template, as do many, according to your risk tolerance and the amount you have to invest. Vanguard generally recommends to stay the course and that has worked relatively will up until the latest downturn.

Plan to ask specific questions related to our current portfolio at a later day. I will provide specifics then, but currently as I stated earlier I would like to hear members of the forums opinions/experiences with Vanguards Personal Advisor Services.

Personal info: 74, married no outstanding debts live of SS and pension. Investments are not being used presently. What promoted all is the dramatic market downturn and Vanguards seemingly new direction of wanting to move into more into managed funds.

Thank you for your impute.
Stocks and bonds are both down. There's nowhere to hide.

Stay the course always works, eventually. If you fiddle with your allocations now, it's too late, especially since you don't currently use that money. Stay the course is especially important in a downturn because your emotions can overwhelm you, causing you to make mistakes. It's easy to stay the course when everything is going well.

Maybe what this downturn (which is only a few months old vs a over a decade of nearly constant great market returns) is showing you is that your risk tolerance isn't as high as you thought. That's fine. You often don't know until you're experiencing it.
livesoft
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by livesoft »

HMSVictory wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:47 am... but allow PAS to handle the day to day stuff. ...
My understanding is that there is no "day to day stuff." And this is pretty much true for many investors whether they use VPAS or not.
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Jack FFR1846
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

PAS is advising you to move into managed funds? I would fire them on the spot. What is your asset allocation now? If you want less volatility, reduce equity and increase bond. You can do this with individual funds or you could pick a target date fund that would move more and more towards bonds with every year of age.

What is it that you like about PAS? What have they said or done that has helped? Whenever I've read about what they've done in the past, it sure sounded like they simply broke open a target date fund and sold the individual investments to the client. Hearing that they're talking about managed funds alarms me. It sounds like Vanguard is changing direction and wants to become Morgan Stanley. Would you like an Indexed Universal Life policy with that?
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HMSVictory
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by HMSVictory »

livesoft wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:55 am
HMSVictory wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:47 am... but allow PAS to handle the day to day stuff. ...
My understanding is that there is no "day to day stuff." And this is pretty much true for many investors whether they use VPAS or not.
Setting up a draw schedule, fund selection, asset location, calculating RMDs, calculating inherited IRA RMDs, Roth conversions, tax loss harvesting, quarterly conference calls, reviewing performance this sort of stuff..... she actually really likes the quarterly calls. Gives her piece of mind that someone is watching the store.
Stay the course!
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HMSVictory
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by HMSVictory »

Jack FFR1846 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:57 am PAS is advising you to move into managed funds? I would fire them on the spot. What is your asset allocation now? If you want less volatility, reduce equity and increase bond. You can do this with individual funds or you could pick a target date fund that would move more and more towards bonds with every year of age.

What is it that you like about PAS? What have they said or done that has helped? Whenever I've read about what they've done in the past, it sure sounded like they simply broke open a target date fund and sold the individual investments to the client. Hearing that they're talking about managed funds alarms me. It sounds like Vanguard is changing direction and wants to become Morgan Stanley. Would you like an Indexed Universal Life policy with that?
Yes they have "advisor only" active managed funds now.
Stay the course!
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by ScubaHogg »

HMSVictory wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:01 am
livesoft wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:55 am
HMSVictory wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:47 am... but allow PAS to handle the day to day stuff. ...
My understanding is that there is no "day to day stuff." And this is pretty much true for many investors whether they use VPAS or not.
Setting up a draw schedule, fund selection, asset location, calculating RMDs, calculating inherited IRA RMDs, Roth conversions, tax loss harvesting, quarterly conference calls, reviewing performance this sort of stuff..... she actually really likes the quarterly calls. Gives her piece of mind that someone is watching the store.
Vanguard PAS will do Roth conversions and TLH? Good to know
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retired@50
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by retired@50 »

fancyrick63 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:20 am ... more into managed funds.
If you don't want to use actively managed funds, just tell them. No thanks, should suffice.

I wouldn't put any more weight on their mentioning actively managed funds than I would on a waiter or waitress telling me about the daily specials. It's just an offer, not an obligation.

Regards,
This is one person's opinion. Nothing more.
livesoft
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by livesoft »

HMSVictory wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 11:01 am
livesoft wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:55 am
HMSVictory wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:47 am... but allow PAS to handle the day to day stuff. ...
My understanding is that there is no "day to day stuff." And this is pretty much true for many investors whether they use VPAS or not.
Setting up a draw schedule, fund selection, asset location, calculating RMDs, calculating inherited IRA RMDs, Roth conversions, tax loss harvesting, quarterly conference calls, reviewing performance this sort of stuff..... she actually really likes the quarterly calls. Gives her piece of mind that someone is watching the store.
Right. Except for the quarterly conference calls, those other things sure seem like once a year or less frequent things.
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Fredz4000
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by Fredz4000 »

I'm new to investing. I just got off the phone with a Vanguard PAS rep we've been working with since January. I've been mulling this far too long. VPAS is basically like a robo or TDF with access to a human to explain it every once in a while?

If I just had one or two accounts I would DIY. But after inheriting some assets we decided to use it for organizing a basic four fund across 1 joint taxable and 5 retirement accounts. I also can't bring myself to go with any of the AUM people our friends recommended.

For us it is a very cookie cutter/no frills 4 fund - the most notable feature is no bonds in the joint taxable. I've also been on this forum for some time so when the agent laid out what they recommended it looked very familiar - essentially when you add all the accounts together the percentages resemble a Vangaurd TDF for our retirement year 2045.

My only reservation is the agent I've been working with - he's really nice but you can tell he's saying the same script to everyone. He wants me to lump sum now cause you can't time the market yada yada. If you're interested in more nuance - VTIP instead of BND or reduce international a bit, then look eslewhere. I think at the end of the day I'll use it for a year and then hopefully DIY once I'm more confident.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by quietseas »

Fredz4000 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:34 pm I think at the end of the day I'll use it for a year and then hopefully DIY once I'm more confident.
Good answer, I'd just make sure you are very clear that you only want index funds and avoid using the new proprietary actively managed funds especially in a taxable account.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by Fredz4000 »

quietseas wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:55 pm
Fredz4000 wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 12:34 pm I think at the end of the day I'll use it for a year and then hopefully DIY once I'm more confident.
Good answer, I'd just make sure you are very clear that you only want index funds and avoid using the new proprietary actively managed funds especially in a taxable account.

Thanks so much I'm glad I stumbled upon this thread - didn't know about the actively managed funds!
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by boomer543 »

I am a current Vanguard PAS client with a mid-forties age CFP advisor I am very satisfied with. If you are only getting cookie cutter, then maybe you are not fully exploring your CFP advisor conversations. Mixed in with the Bond and Equity ETF’s are several actively managed ETF’s. I am Dollar Cost Averaging my equity investments over 18 months with 10 months to go. And…the CFP convos have gone into other financial areas than investments. You are not fully utilizing your Vanguard CFP.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by boomer543 »

OF COURSE, Vanguard has actively managed funds…some beating performing better than their peer group and indexes over decades. Remember Wellington Fund? My Vanguard CFP advised a small position in Vanguard Capital Opportunities ETF which exceeds its peer group consistently (now open to Vanguard PAS clients like me). Still mostly indexed ETF’s of course in my PAS portfolio but with a small actively managed tilt. Nothing wrong with that.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by bertilak »

boomer543 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:51 am Still mostly indexed ETF’s of course in my PAS portfolio but with a small actively managed tilt. Nothing wrong with that.
I often wonder about "small" tilts. If truly small, it should not move the needle and is probably not worth the extra complication. If increased in size to where it does make a difference, should one be very convinced of its benefit? If so convinced, why is it a small tilt?

Those thoughts keep me from trying to spice up my vanilla three-fund portfolio.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by boomer543 »

You miss the point. Some Boglehead commenters like in this thread condemn ANY mention of actively managed funds from Vanguard as if it is sacrilege which is simply not true. Wellington, Primecap and other index beaters existed for decades in the CEO Bogle era too.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by bsteiner »

boomer543 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 1:32 pm You miss the point. Some Boglehead commenters like in this thread condemn ANY mention of actively managed funds from Vanguard as if it is sacrilege which is simply not true. Wellington, Primecap and other index beaters existed for decades in the CEO Bogle era too.
Many people have no interest in investing. They often do much worse than if they used PAS, or if they put all their money in Wellington.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by bpkasl »

What about Robo investing? Any experience?
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by sksbog »

boomer543 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:51 am OF COURSE, Vanguard has actively managed funds…some beating performing better than their peer group and indexes over decades. Remember Wellington Fund? My Vanguard CFP advised a small position in Vanguard Capital Opportunities ETF which exceeds its peer group consistently (now open to Vanguard PAS clients like me). Still mostly indexed ETF’s of course in my PAS portfolio but with a small actively managed tilt. Nothing wrong with that.
You are paying.35 bps for actively managed fund + .35 bps for VPS subscription.
Have you taken your expenses into account when comparing with .05 bps index etf s with no other fees?
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by goingup »

boomer543 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:51 am OF COURSE, Vanguard has actively managed funds…some beating performing better than their peer group and indexes over decades. Remember Wellington Fund? My Vanguard CFP advised a small position in Vanguard Capital Opportunities ETF which exceeds its peer group consistently (now open to Vanguard PAS clients like me). Still mostly indexed ETF’s of course in my PAS portfolio but with a small actively managed tilt. Nothing wrong with that.
Vanguard PAS launched 5 special managed funds last year that can only be held by PAS clients. So if you choose to leave PAS you can’t take them with you. https://investor.vanguard.com/investor- ... uity-offer

I think PAS pushing clients into these funds is what gets some BHs riled up.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

They were riled up long before that.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by bertilak »

goingup wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:18 pm
boomer543 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:51 am OF COURSE, Vanguard has actively managed funds…some beating performing better than their peer group and indexes over decades. Remember Wellington Fund? My Vanguard CFP advised a small position in Vanguard Capital Opportunities ETF which exceeds its peer group consistently (now open to Vanguard PAS clients like me). Still mostly indexed ETF’s of course in my PAS portfolio but with a small actively managed tilt. Nothing wrong with that.
Vanguard PAS launched 5 special managed funds last year that can only be held by PAS clients. So if you choose to leave PAS you can’t take them with you. https://investor.vanguard.com/investor- ... uity-offer

I think PAS pushing clients into these funds is what gets some BHs riled up.
I'm slightly annoyed.

My IPS says that PAS is an option for anyone taking over management of my portfolio. I had to add a caveat to specify to PAS that those funds were NOT to be used. I have since read here on BH that several people who recently signed up for PAS were never even offered those funds but still, it is a worry.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by nedsaid »

bertilak wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 3:43 pm
goingup wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:18 pm
boomer543 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:51 am OF COURSE, Vanguard has actively managed funds…some beating performing better than their peer group and indexes over decades. Remember Wellington Fund? My Vanguard CFP advised a small position in Vanguard Capital Opportunities ETF which exceeds its peer group consistently (now open to Vanguard PAS clients like me). Still mostly indexed ETF’s of course in my PAS portfolio but with a small actively managed tilt. Nothing wrong with that.
Vanguard PAS launched 5 special managed funds last year that can only be held by PAS clients. So if you choose to leave PAS you can’t take them with you. https://investor.vanguard.com/investor- ... uity-offer

I think PAS pushing clients into these funds is what gets some BHs riled up.
I'm slightly annoyed.

My IPS says that PAS is an option for anyone taking over management of my portfolio. I had to add a caveat to specify to PAS that those funds were NOT to be used. I have since read here on BH that several people who recently signed up for PAS were never even offered those funds but still, it is a worry.
Yes, I suppose Vanguard Personal Advisor Service offering these 5 special managed funds is an annoyance but think of the alternatives. If you had an unexpected demise, your widow might wind up at the local Edward Jones or Ameriprise office. VPAS, even with the more expensive managed funds is still a far superior alternative.

I don't think it is enough to put the VPAS option in your Investment Policy Statement. If something happened to you, in the context of grief and having to make a bunch of decisions quickly, I am not sure that anyone would read your IPS after your demise. Even if someone reads it, it might just seem easier to visit a local Edward Jones or Ameriprise office than to deal with folks over the phone or by videoconferencing. Probably a better plan is to have VPAS already in place, the question is when to hand over the keys.

Already I am test driving a service which includes some financial planning to see if I like it. Better to check things out while I still have all of my marbles.

The problem with the best laid and thought out plans is that things change. A big change here is that Vanguard is becoming more like its competitors.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by bertilak »

nedsaid wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 7:27 pm
I don't think it is enough to put the VPAS option in your Investment Policy Statement. If something happened to you, in the context of grief and having to make a bunch of decisions quickly, I am not sure that anyone would read your IPS after your demise.
My wife has already read it and hardcopy is in with important papers (like will).
Even if someone reads it, it might just seem easier to visit a local Edward Jones or Ameriprise office than to deal with folks over the phone or by videoconferencing. Probably a better plan is to have VPAS already in place, the question is when to hand over the keys.
Yes, this is already in the back of my mind as a possibility.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by GmanJeff »

goingup wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:18 pm
boomer543 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:51 am OF COURSE, Vanguard has actively managed funds…some beating performing better than their peer group and indexes over decades. Remember Wellington Fund? My Vanguard CFP advised a small position in Vanguard Capital Opportunities ETF which exceeds its peer group consistently (now open to Vanguard PAS clients like me). Still mostly indexed ETF’s of course in my PAS portfolio but with a small actively managed tilt. Nothing wrong with that.
Vanguard PAS launched 5 special managed funds last year that can only be held by PAS clients. So if you choose to leave PAS you can’t take them with you. https://investor.vanguard.com/investor- ... uity-offer

I think PAS pushing clients into these funds is what gets some BHs riled up.
PAS is hardly "pushing" anyone into their new managed funds. They are there for clients who are interested in paying slightly higher fees and in adding more concentrated investments to their portfolio in return for potentially higher returns. They are an offering, not a requirement, to be evaluated in the context of individual circumstances and preferences in conjunction with the advisor. There is no automatic redirection of investments to those funds and, in my experience, no pressure whatsoever to even consider, let alone adopt them, for a portion of a portfolio.

It appears that PAS is trying to improve their value proposition by adding potentially appealing exclusive products and services. An example of the latter is their current testing of automated tax-loss harvesting, currently being trialed by a subset of PAS clients and expected to be rolled out more widely to additional interested PAS clients in Q1 2023.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by goingup »

GmanJeff wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:09 am
goingup wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:18 pm
boomer543 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:51 am OF COURSE, Vanguard has actively managed funds…some beating performing better than their peer group and indexes over decades. Remember Wellington Fund? My Vanguard CFP advised a small position in Vanguard Capital Opportunities ETF which exceeds its peer group consistently (now open to Vanguard PAS clients like me). Still mostly indexed ETF’s of course in my PAS portfolio but with a small actively managed tilt. Nothing wrong with that.
Vanguard PAS launched 5 special managed funds last year that can only be held by PAS clients. So if you choose to leave PAS you can’t take them with you. https://investor.vanguard.com/investor- ... uity-offer

I think PAS pushing clients into these funds is what gets some BHs riled up.
PAS is hardly "pushing" anyone into their new managed funds. They are there for clients who are interested in paying slightly higher fees and in adding more concentrated investments to their portfolio in return for potentially higher returns. They are an offering, not a requirement, to be evaluated in the context of individual circumstances and preferences in conjunction with the advisor. There is no automatic redirection of investments to those funds and, in my experience, no pressure whatsoever to even consider, let alone adopt them, for a portion of a portfolio.

It appears that PAS is trying to improve their value proposition by adding potentially appealing exclusive products and services. An example of the latter is their current testing of automated tax-loss harvesting, currently being trialed by a subset of PAS clients and expected to be rolled out more widely to additional interested PAS clients in Q1 2023.
Sorry, maybe "pushing" is the wrong word to use. I'm not a PAS client, but I would bet that new PAS clients are being guided into these funds. Vanguard has to build the AUM of the funds, the funds represent a new larger revenue stream, and the funds are "sticky" in a way that virtually no other Vanguard products are. For a veteran Boglehead, I'm sure a simple "no" response will work for the PAS advisor. Other clients may find themselves in these managed funds for better or worse.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by bertilak »

goingup wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:06 pm Sorry, maybe "pushing" is the wrong word to use. I'm not a PAS client, but I would bet that new PAS clients are being guided into these funds. Vanguard has to build the AUM of the funds, the funds represent a new larger revenue stream, and the funds are "sticky" in a way that virtually no other Vanguard products are. For a veteran Boglehead, I'm sure a simple "no" response will work for the PAS advisor. Other clients may find themselves in these managed funds for better or worse.
I would bet you are wrong.

I have no inside info, nor have I done a study, but based on the experiences related here on BH, I see evidence to the contrary.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by smectym »

livesoft wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:55 am
HMSVictory wrote: Tue May 24, 2022 10:47 am... but allow PAS to handle the day to day stuff. ...
My understanding is that there is no "day to day stuff." And this is pretty much true for many investors whether they use VPAS or not.
That was my experience during a couple of years in VPAS, and my general understanding as well. And that’s entirely consistent with Vanguard’s investment advice philosophy—not a criticism. As a new client, you’ll answer several online questions re risk tolerance, main objective and so on, and then the algo will spit out a stock/bond allocation consisting of Total Stock Index, Total Bond, and a healthy dose of international Total Stock and Total Bond. Esoteric, sector or “cool” funds not included. You’ll discuss the allocation with your advisor. Once the allocation is set, you can still schedule to talk with your advisor, but in general there’s little to discuss. The allocation will not shift in response to market fluctuations small or large. After a while, some clients begin to wonder whether it still makes sense to pay the .30 fee in perpetuity to maintain the static allocation. But some find it quite worthwhile. Some households value PAS because while one spouse may be comfortable with investing, maybe even a Boglehead, the other spouse has no interest and would feel lost without an advisor relationship should the “savvy” one become incapacitated. Sometimes it may be important to a client just to have an advisor to talk with during periods of market turbulence. The message will be: Stay the Course! And that’s it should be.
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Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by nedsaid »

GmanJeff wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:09 am
goingup wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:18 pm
boomer543 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:51 am OF COURSE, Vanguard has actively managed funds…some beating performing better than their peer group and indexes over decades. Remember Wellington Fund? My Vanguard CFP advised a small position in Vanguard Capital Opportunities ETF which exceeds its peer group consistently (now open to Vanguard PAS clients like me). Still mostly indexed ETF’s of course in my PAS portfolio but with a small actively managed tilt. Nothing wrong with that.
Vanguard PAS launched 5 special managed funds last year that can only be held by PAS clients. So if you choose to leave PAS you can’t take them with you. https://investor.vanguard.com/investor- ... uity-offer

I think PAS pushing clients into these funds is what gets some BHs riled up.
PAS is hardly "pushing" anyone into their new managed funds. They are there for clients who are interested in paying slightly higher fees and in adding more concentrated investments to their portfolio in return for potentially higher returns. They are an offering, not a requirement, to be evaluated in the context of individual circumstances and preferences in conjunction with the advisor. There is no automatic redirection of investments to those funds and, in my experience, no pressure whatsoever to even consider, let alone adopt them, for a portion of a portfolio.

It appears that PAS is trying to improve their value proposition by adding potentially appealing exclusive products and services. An example of the latter is their current testing of automated tax-loss harvesting, currently being trialed by a subset of PAS clients and expected to be rolled out more widely to additional interested PAS clients in Q1 2023.
My guess is that PAS is offering low cost active funds because the Advisory clients have asked for them. They have probably been asked to provide tax loss harvesting as well. It is good that Vanguard Personal Advisory Service has been responsive to clients and to the competition.
A fool and his money are good for business.
smectym
Posts: 1455
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 5:07 pm

Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by smectym »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:39 pm
GmanJeff wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:09 am
goingup wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:18 pm
boomer543 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:51 am OF COURSE, Vanguard has actively managed funds…some beating performing better than their peer group and indexes over decades. Remember Wellington Fund? My Vanguard CFP advised a small position in Vanguard Capital Opportunities ETF which exceeds its peer group consistently (now open to Vanguard PAS clients like me). Still mostly indexed ETF’s of course in my PAS portfolio but with a small actively managed tilt. Nothing wrong with that.
Vanguard PAS launched 5 special managed funds last year that can only be held by PAS clients. So if you choose to leave PAS you can’t take them with you. https://investor.vanguard.com/investor- ... uity-offer

I think PAS pushing clients into these funds is what gets some BHs riled up.
PAS is hardly "pushing" anyone into their new managed funds. They are there for clients who are interested in paying slightly higher fees and in adding more concentrated investments to their portfolio in return for potentially higher returns. They are an offering, not a requirement, to be evaluated in the context of individual circumstances and preferences in conjunction with the advisor. There is no automatic redirection of investments to those funds and, in my experience, no pressure whatsoever to even consider, let alone adopt them, for a portion of a portfolio.

It appears that PAS is trying to improve their value proposition by adding potentially appealing exclusive products and services. An example of the latter is their current testing of automated tax-loss harvesting, currently being trialed by a subset of PAS clients and expected to be rolled out more widely to additional interested PAS clients in Q1 2023.
My guess is that PAS is offering low cost active funds because the Advisory clients have asked for them. They have probably been asked to provide tax loss harvesting as well. It is good that Vanguard Personal Advisory Service has been responsive to clients and to the competition.
Agree, I had heard something about the proposed extension of offerings, didn’t know it was up and running. A recent Morningstar article touts the active funds at Vanguard (paywall may or may not obtrude):

https://www.morningstar.com/articles/11 ... best-funds

Another thing prospective clients might keep in mind is Vanguard’s practice of regularly rotating advisors. I don’t think you can count on establishing a long-term relationship with one human. We had three advisors in 2 years (similar to the revolving door at Flagship). Some clients don’t care:others might.
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nedsaid
Posts: 16934
Joined: Fri Nov 23, 2012 12:33 pm

Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by nedsaid »

smectym wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 10:27 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 9:39 pm
GmanJeff wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:09 am
goingup wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:18 pm
boomer543 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:51 am OF COURSE, Vanguard has actively managed funds…some beating performing better than their peer group and indexes over decades. Remember Wellington Fund? My Vanguard CFP advised a small position in Vanguard Capital Opportunities ETF which exceeds its peer group consistently (now open to Vanguard PAS clients like me). Still mostly indexed ETF’s of course in my PAS portfolio but with a small actively managed tilt. Nothing wrong with that.
Vanguard PAS launched 5 special managed funds last year that can only be held by PAS clients. So if you choose to leave PAS you can’t take them with you. https://investor.vanguard.com/investor- ... uity-offer

I think PAS pushing clients into these funds is what gets some BHs riled up.
PAS is hardly "pushing" anyone into their new managed funds. They are there for clients who are interested in paying slightly higher fees and in adding more concentrated investments to their portfolio in return for potentially higher returns. They are an offering, not a requirement, to be evaluated in the context of individual circumstances and preferences in conjunction with the advisor. There is no automatic redirection of investments to those funds and, in my experience, no pressure whatsoever to even consider, let alone adopt them, for a portion of a portfolio.

It appears that PAS is trying to improve their value proposition by adding potentially appealing exclusive products and services. An example of the latter is their current testing of automated tax-loss harvesting, currently being trialed by a subset of PAS clients and expected to be rolled out more widely to additional interested PAS clients in Q1 2023.
My guess is that PAS is offering low cost active funds because the Advisory clients have asked for them. They have probably been asked to provide tax loss harvesting as well. It is good that Vanguard Personal Advisory Service has been responsive to clients and to the competition.
Agree, I had heard something about the proposed extension of offerings, didn’t know it was up and running. A recent Morningstar article touts the active funds at Vanguard (paywall may or may not obtrude):

https://www.morningstar.com/articles/11 ... best-funds

Another thing prospective clients might keep in mind is Vanguard’s practice of regularly rotating advisors. I don’t think you can count on establishing a long-term relationship with one human. We had three advisors in 2 years (similar to the revolving door at Flagship). Some clients don’t care:others might.
Yes there are drawbacks to everything. From reading these threads, prospective clients get a good idea of what to expect.
A fool and his money are good for business.
MikeG62
Posts: 4758
Joined: Tue Nov 15, 2016 3:20 pm
Location: New Jersey

Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by MikeG62 »

goingup wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 12:06 pm
GmanJeff wrote: Sun Aug 21, 2022 8:09 am
goingup wrote: Sat Aug 20, 2022 2:18 pm
boomer543 wrote: Wed May 25, 2022 10:51 am OF COURSE, Vanguard has actively managed funds…some beating performing better than their peer group and indexes over decades. Remember Wellington Fund? My Vanguard CFP advised a small position in Vanguard Capital Opportunities ETF which exceeds its peer group consistently (now open to Vanguard PAS clients like me). Still mostly indexed ETF’s of course in my PAS portfolio but with a small actively managed tilt. Nothing wrong with that.
Vanguard PAS launched 5 special managed funds last year that can only be held by PAS clients. So if you choose to leave PAS you can’t take them with you. https://investor.vanguard.com/investor- ... uity-offer

I think PAS pushing clients into these funds is what gets some BHs riled up.
PAS is hardly "pushing" anyone into their new managed funds. They are there for clients who are interested in paying slightly higher fees and in adding more concentrated investments to their portfolio in return for potentially higher returns. They are an offering, not a requirement, to be evaluated in the context of individual circumstances and preferences in conjunction with the advisor. There is no automatic redirection of investments to those funds and, in my experience, no pressure whatsoever to even consider, let alone adopt them, for a portion of a portfolio.

It appears that PAS is trying to improve their value proposition by adding potentially appealing exclusive products and services. An example of the latter is their current testing of automated tax-loss harvesting, currently being trialed by a subset of PAS clients and expected to be rolled out more widely to additional interested PAS clients in Q1 2023.
Sorry, maybe "pushing" is the wrong word to use. I'm not a PAS client, but I would bet that new PAS clients are being guided into these funds. Vanguard has to build the AUM of the funds, the funds represent a new larger revenue stream, and the funds are "sticky" in a way that virtually no other Vanguard products are. For a veteran Boglehead, I'm sure a simple "no" response will work for the PAS advisor. Other clients may find themselves in these managed funds for better or worse.
I can understand why you would feel that way. I have only one data point (helped SIL transfer funds into VG PAS in the fall of 2020). She was not offered nor put into any of these funds. They proposed and are using standard VG index-ETF's. Again, data point of only one.
Real Knowledge Comes Only From Experience
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slowandsteadywins
Posts: 253
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:13 pm

Re: Vanguard Personal Advisor Services

Post by slowandsteadywins »

Vanguard PAS now has automated tax loss harvesting. Anyone in the service that can speak to how this works for them? Comparison to TLH offered by roboadvisor, Wealthfront?
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence; Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent." | -Calvin Coolidge
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