Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Where to invest 6k in Roth?
All - I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
My horizon is long term and I will do this contribution every year as non deductible as I am not eligible for ROTH IRA contribution.
Please advice
Thanks
Jk
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
My horizon is long term and I will do this contribution every year as non deductible as I am not eligible for ROTH IRA contribution.
Please advice
Thanks
Jk
- anon_investor
- Posts: 15122
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Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
100% VTSAX and chill.jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm All - I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
My horizon is long term and I will do this contribution every year as non deductible as I am not eligible for ROTH IRA contribution.
Please advice
Thanks
Jk
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Should I do that right away or wait ?anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:55 pm100% VTSAX and chill.jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm All - I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
My horizon is long term and I will do this contribution every year as non deductible as I am not eligible for ROTH IRA contribution.
Please advice
Thanks
Jk
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
VTSAX is a great fund for long term.jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm All - I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
My horizon is long term and I will do this contribution every year as non deductible as I am not eligible for ROTH IRA contribution.
Please advice
Thanks
Jk
"Know what you own, and know why you own it." — Peter Lynch
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Consider reading https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Dollar_cost_averaging on the Bogleheads wiki. For a long-term horizon, you may achieve better outcomes by being in the market for longer (i.e. lump-sum).jack22 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:05 amShould I do that right away or wait ?anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:55 pm100% VTSAX and chill.jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm All - I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
My horizon is long term and I will do this contribution every year as non deductible as I am not eligible for ROTH IRA contribution.
Please advice
Thanks
Jk
- dogagility
- Posts: 3237
- Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 5:41 am
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Invest in VTSAX.
You might question your slice/dice investing strategy should it underperform... which would lead to performance chasing... and lower returns.
You might question your slice/dice investing strategy should it underperform... which would lead to performance chasing... and lower returns.
Make sure you check out my list of certifications. The list is short, and there aren't any. - Eric 0. from SMA
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Wait for what?jack22 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:05 amShould I do that right away or wait ?anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:55 pm100% VTSAX and chill.jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm All - I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
My horizon is long term and I will do this contribution every year as non deductible as I am not eligible for ROTH IRA contribution.
Please advice
Thanks
Jk
- anon_investor
- Posts: 15122
- Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Yes, why not? Invest when you can afford to.jack22 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 12:05 amShould I do that right away or wait ?anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:55 pm100% VTSAX and chill.jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm All - I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
My horizon is long term and I will do this contribution every year as non deductible as I am not eligible for ROTH IRA contribution.
Please advice
Thanks
Jk
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
The only thing I would wait for is to complete the backdoor from non deductible to roth. Immediately upon completing the backdoor I'd invest it in your selected funds.
I don't like to purchase funds in the non deductible prior to rollover.
I don't like to purchase funds in the non deductible prior to rollover.
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Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Is there a pro to vtsax over VTi in Roth?
- ruralavalon
- Posts: 26353
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:29 am
- Location: Illinois
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund VTSAX) is an excellent choice for a Roth IRA in my opinion.jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm All - I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
My horizon is long term and I will do this contribution every year as non deductible as I am not eligible for ROTH IRA contribution.
Please advice
Thanks
Jk
It's just personal preference.
They are just different share classes of the same fund.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Thanks all for the advice , I did invest in VTSAX few minutes back the lump sum. Fidelity charged me $75 as fees to buy VTSAX which
I did not know .. I am not sure why ..Just thought I will let you all know.
Cheers
I did not know .. I am not sure why ..Just thought I will let you all know.
Cheers
- retired@50
- Posts: 12835
- Joined: Tue Oct 01, 2019 2:36 pm
- Location: Living in the U.S.A.
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
If you choose to use Fidelity as your broker, then you can avoid this $75 fee by using the Vanguard ETF called VTI.
VTI holds the same stocks as VTSAX since it is just another share class of the same fund, so you're buying the same thing, just without the fee.
Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
TD Ameritrade will charge 49.99 for Vanguard Mutual funds. You can buy the equivalent ETF's like VTI for without transaction fee in TD. It may be same in Fidelity. But once you buy a minimum purchase of MF you may be able to schedule an automatic systematic reinvestment for free. I have similar thing setup in my taxable
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
I advise you to purchase a total US stock index fund (mutual fund or ETF) once you have converted. Before the conversion keep the money in the cash settlement fund. The gains will be minimal and there will be no losses to track.jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
Well, it you had said you were at Fidelity we would have warned you about the transaction fees on non-Fidelity mutual funds.I did invest in VTSAX few minutes back the lump sum. Fidelity charged me $75 as fees to buy VTSAX which I did not know.
If at Fidelity you can purchase ETFs without a transaction fee so VTI, ITOT or SCHB would all be suitable total US stock index ETFs. If you want mutual funds instead of ETFs then choose a Fidelity fund. Either FSKAX or FZROX would work.
(VTI) Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (0.03%)
(ITOT) iShares Core S&P Total US Market ETF (0.03%)
(SCHB) Schwab US Broad Market ETF (0.03%)
(FSKAX) Fidelity Total Market Index Fund (0.015%)
(FZROX) Fidelity Zero Total Market Index Fund (0.00%)
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
if I open a account with vanguard and buy directinvestmax wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:41 pmTD Ameritrade will charge 49.99 for Vanguard Mutual funds. You can buy the equivalent ETF's like VTI for without transaction fee in TD. It may be same in Fidelity. But once you buy a minimum purchase of MF you may be able to schedule an automatic systematic reinvestment for free. I have similar thing setup in my taxable
Is that free or still there is a transaction fee ? The one above is for Roth and I want to open a separate brokerage account and
My plan is to buy VTSAX as a periodic investment.. any advice ?
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
What's your goal with this money? If by "horizon is long term", you mean stable, retirement income, then index funds other posters have mentioned.
I have very few vices in life, so I use mine as "play" money to buy individual stocks. If I lost it all, it doesn't jeopardize my retirement and I like being able to trade and not deal with the tax implications of a regular brokerage account. So far my gambling is paying off decently.
I have very few vices in life, so I use mine as "play" money to buy individual stocks. If I lost it all, it doesn't jeopardize my retirement and I like being able to trade and not deal with the tax implications of a regular brokerage account. So far my gambling is paying off decently.
jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm All - I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
My horizon is long term and I will do this contribution every year as non deductible as I am not eligible for ROTH IRA contribution.
Please advice
Thanks
Jk
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
I buy vanguard funds at vanguard and Fidelity funds at Fidelity.
Zero fees to buy funds the normal three fund portfolio funds or ETFs using this method.
I bought more stock today also. You are in good company.
Zero fees to buy funds the normal three fund portfolio funds or ETFs using this method.
I bought more stock today also. You are in good company.
"I started with nothing and I still have most of it left."
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Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
That’s what we do.
(I bought more stock today, too. )
“The strong cannot be brave. Only the weak can be brave; and yet again, in practice, only those who can be brave can be trusted, in time of doubt, to be strong.“ - GK Chesterton
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
VT /thread
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Thanks much this helps .. I’m going to open a vanguardDuckie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:23 pmI advise you to purchase a total US stock index fund (mutual fund or ETF) once you have converted. Before the conversion keep the money in the cash settlement fund. The gains will be minimal and there will be no losses to track.jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
Well, it you had said you were at Fidelity we would have warned you about the transaction fees on non-Fidelity mutual funds.I did invest in VTSAX few minutes back the lump sum. Fidelity charged me $75 as fees to buy VTSAX which I did not know.
If at Fidelity you can purchase ETFs without a transaction fee so VTI, ITOT or SCHB would all be suitable total US stock index ETFs. If you want mutual funds instead of ETFs then choose a Fidelity fund. Either FSKAX or FZROX would work.
(VTI) Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (0.03%)
(ITOT) iShares Core S&P Total US Market ETF (0.03%)
(SCHB) Schwab US Broad Market ETF (0.03%)
(FSKAX) Fidelity Total Market Index Fund (0.015%)
(FZROX) Fidelity Zero Total Market Index Fund (0.00%)
Brokerage account and buy VTSAX there periodically
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
The goal is for retirement and king termelle wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:38 pm What's your goal with this money? If by "horizon is long term", you mean stable, retirement income, then index funds other posters have mentioned.
I have very few vices in life, so I use mine as "play" money to buy individual stocks. If I lost it all, it doesn't jeopardize my retirement and I like being able to trade and not deal with the tax implications of a regular brokerage account. So far my gambling is paying off decently.
jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm All - I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
My horizon is long term and I will do this contribution every year as non deductible as I am not eligible for ROTH IRA contribution.
Please advice
Thanks
Jk
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Also What are admiral shares ? When I bought it today for 6k
It said admiral and min investment 2.5k
Thanks
It said admiral and min investment 2.5k
Thanks
- ruralavalon
- Posts: 26353
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:29 am
- Location: Illinois
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
In an account at Vanguard there is no fee to purchase either Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX) or the ETF share class (VTI).jack22 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:36 pmif I open a account with vanguard and buy directinvestmax wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:41 pmTD Ameritrade will charge 49.99 for Vanguard Mutual funds. You can buy the equivalent ETF's like VTI for without transaction fee in TD. It may be same in Fidelity. But once you buy a minimum purchase of MF you may be able to schedule an automatic systematic reinvestment for free. I have similar thing setup in my taxable
Is that free or still there is a transaction fee ? The one above is for Roth and I want to open a separate brokerage account and
My plan is to buy VTSAX as a periodic investment.. any advice ?
In an account at Fidelity you can purchase Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI) with no transaction fee.
Both VTSAX and VTI in a taxable account are very tax-efficient.
My personal preference is VTSAX, in an account at Vanguard.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
jack22 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:20 pmThanks much this helps .. I’m going to open a vanguardDuckie wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:23 pmI advise you to purchase a total US stock index fund (mutual fund or ETF) once you have converted. Before the conversion keep the money in the cash settlement fund. The gains will be minimal and there will be no losses to track.jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
Well, it you had said you were at Fidelity we would have warned you about the transaction fees on non-Fidelity mutual funds.I did invest in VTSAX few minutes back the lump sum. Fidelity charged me $75 as fees to buy VTSAX which I did not know.
If at Fidelity you can purchase ETFs without a transaction fee so VTI, ITOT or SCHB would all be suitable total US stock index ETFs. If you want mutual funds instead of ETFs then choose a Fidelity fund. Either FSKAX or FZROX would work.
(VTI) Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (0.03%)
(ITOT) iShares Core S&P Total US Market ETF (0.03%)
(SCHB) Schwab US Broad Market ETF (0.03%)
(FSKAX) Fidelity Total Market Index Fund (0.015%)
(FZROX) Fidelity Zero Total Market Index Fund (0.00%)
Brokerage account and buy VTSAX there periodically
If you already have a Fidelity account, just buy FSKAX. It and VTSAX are almost identical.
https://www.askfinny.com/compare/VTSAX-vs-FSKAX
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
If you open up a separate brokerage account with Vanguard, all regular Vanguard mutual funds like VTSAX, VFIAX etc are transaction fee and commission free. You can set up VTSAX as a periodic investment and then once you buy the first tranche of VTSAX for minimum $3000, subsequent to that you can add to this periodically in any amount in multiples of $1. I mean once you buy the initial minimum, the subsequent investments can be $100 weekly or anything like this.jack22 wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 5:36 pmif I open a account with vanguard and buy directinvestmax wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 4:41 pmTD Ameritrade will charge 49.99 for Vanguard Mutual funds. You can buy the equivalent ETF's like VTI for without transaction fee in TD. It may be same in Fidelity. But once you buy a minimum purchase of MF you may be able to schedule an automatic systematic reinvestment for free. I have similar thing setup in my taxable
Is that free or still there is a transaction fee ? The one above is for Roth and I want to open a separate brokerage account and
My plan is to buy VTSAX as a periodic investment.. any advice ?
- Brianmcg321
- Posts: 1875
- Joined: Mon Jul 15, 2019 8:23 am
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Follow this advice. VTSAX all the way.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:55 pm100% VTSAX and chill.jack22 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:47 pm All - I have contributed 6k to traditional IRA ( non deductible) for 2020 and in the process of converting to ROTH IRA ( back door strategy)
Can you please advice whether I should invest this 6k in index fund like VTSAX or buy some good growth stocks ( any suggestions?)
My horizon is long term and I will do this contribution every year as non deductible as I am not eligible for ROTH IRA contribution.
Please advice
Thanks
Jk
Rules to investing: |
1. Don't lose money. |
2. Don't forget rule number 1.
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Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
This would be my advice simply to avoid having multiple accounts, and my preference is that Fidelity is a vastly better platform anyway.ForTheLongHaul wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:19 pm If you already have a Fidelity account, just buy FSKAX. It and VTSAX are almost identical.
https://www.askfinny.com/compare/VTSAX-vs-FSKAX
There's nothing about being a Bogle Head that necessarily promotes Vanguard over Fidelity or others. Just keep or sell the VTSAX (a sell will be free btw) and buy FSKAX from here on out.
But VTSAX at Vanguard is cool, too.
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Thanks I don’t have a personal preference too ..
If these 2 are similar in terms of returns and expense ratio
It really doesn’t matter ..
Thanks
If these 2 are similar in terms of returns and expense ratio
It really doesn’t matter ..
Thanks
- ruralavalon
- Posts: 26353
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:29 am
- Location: Illinois
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Fidelity Total Market Index Fund (FSKAX) and Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) are very similar funds, both are very diversified U.S. stock funds with very low expense ratios. Their historical performance has been nearly identical. Portfolio Visualizer 2012-2021.
If using an IRA at Fidelity then use the Fidelity fund.
If using an IRA at Vanguard then use the Vanguard fund.
My personal preference is Vanguard.
Last edited by ruralavalon on Thu Apr 15, 2021 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Don't add unneeded complexity with another account with Vanguard. Just buy either VTI or ITOT and sit back and don't watch!
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
If it were me I would do:
$3000 Vanguard Total stock market
$3000 Vanguard Small Cap Value
Each have $3,000 minimum to open so you got just enough to do both.
$3000 Vanguard Total stock market
$3000 Vanguard Small Cap Value
Each have $3,000 minimum to open so you got just enough to do both.
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
Not knowing your financial situation, your age/proximity to retirement, your risk aversion etc. answers may not really fit well for you. That said, VTSAX is an excellent well diversified index fund and has served me very well.
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
43 years old and at least 10 years away from retirement .
This 6k is going to Roth as a conversion from TIRA as a back door
Strategy as I’m not eligible for Roth direct contribution. Me and my wife max out on 401k and we contribute 12k per annum
To traditional ira and do the back door.
I want to invest in index funds outside retirement accounts
As well .. is there any other suggestion or best way to do that ?
- ruralavalon
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- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:29 am
- Location: Illinois
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
It's great to see that you make maximum annual contributions to your tax-advantaged accounts, both the 401ks and backdoor Roth IRAs.jack22 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:10 pm43 years old and at least 10 years away from retirement .
This 6k is going to Roth as a conversion from TIRA as a back door
Strategy as I’m not eligible for Roth direct contribution. Me and my wife max out on 401k and we contribute 12k per annum
To traditional ira and do the back door.
I want to invest in index funds outside retirement accounts
As well .. is there any other suggestion or best way to do that ?
In general in a taxable brokerage account use very tax-efficient stock index funds. Wiki article "Tax-efficient fund placement", link.
If the taxable account is at Vanguard examples of very tax-efficient stock index funds to use include:
1) Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX) ER 0.04%; and
2) Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund (VTIAX) ER 0.11%.
If the taxable brokerage account is at Fidelity don't use regular Fidelity stock index funds, for better tax-efficiency use stock index exchange traded funds (ETFs) like:
1) Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI) ER 0.03%, or iShares Core S&P Total U.S. Stock Market ETF (ITOT) ER 0.03; and
2) Vanguard Total International Stock ETF (VXUS) ER 0.08%, or iShares Core MSCI Total International Stock ETF (IXUS) ER 0.09%.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
Re: Where to invest 6k in Roth?
thank you , as suggested and to avoid multipleruralavalon wrote: ↑Fri Apr 16, 2021 10:38 amIt's great to see that you make maximum annual contributions to your tax-advantaged accounts, both the 401ks and backdoor Roth IRAs.jack22 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 15, 2021 9:10 pm43 years old and at least 10 years away from retirement .
This 6k is going to Roth as a conversion from TIRA as a back door
Strategy as I’m not eligible for Roth direct contribution. Me and my wife max out on 401k and we contribute 12k per annum
To traditional ira and do the back door.
I want to invest in index funds outside retirement accounts
As well .. is there any other suggestion or best way to do that ?
In general in a taxable brokerage account use very tax-efficient stock index funds. Wiki article "Tax-efficient fund placement", link.
If the taxable account is at Vanguard examples of very tax-efficient stock index funds to use include:
1) Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX) ER 0.04%; and
2) Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund (VTIAX) ER 0.11%.
If the taxable brokerage account is at Fidelity don't use regular Fidelity stock index funds, for better tax-efficiency use stock index exchange traded funds (ETFs) like:
1) Vanguard Total Stock Market ETF (VTI) ER 0.03%, or iShares Core S&P Total U.S. Stock Market ETF (ITOT) ER 0.03; and
2) Vanguard Total International Stock ETF (VXUS) ER 0.08%, or iShares Core MSCI Total International Stock ETF (IXUS) ER 0.09%.
Accounts ( not open in vanguard) I will use fidelity to buy VTI
On a periodic basis... thanks again for this lovely guidance