18 to 100 percent annual return fund

[johnsmithsf]

Hi,
One of my acquaintance referred me to this guy for investment. This financial guru who runs his own fund is claiming that he generates up to 100 percent annual return with his option strategy and that too consistently and without a risk of loss. He says less than 20% annual return is really bad.
Is it possible? Am I missing something here? I have never seen such a confident financial guru before. Also I have never heard about his company before. Have you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXsvLwzVyxw
https://nanbanenterprise.com/meet-gk/

[TheHiker]

Lots of leveraged funds generate this kind of return (except when they don't).

[keanoz]

Something smells fishy. Not even worth the time looking into.

[megabad]

Ask yourself how many financial “experts” are netting consistent 100% returns? Then ask yourself how many liars and cheats there are in the world. Which number is higher?

[HawkeyePierce]

I don't need to click on those links to know he's either lying or a scam artist.

[plog]

I have never seen such a confident financial guru before.

And how many timid charlatans have you seen? 'Con-Man' is the abbreviated version we use for a reason.

[jarjarM]

I think Bernie Madoff only promised 15% return and Buffett only delivered 20+% and Jim Simmons only average 30+%. 1 of them is Ponzi scheme and the other 2 are Billionaires. So either this guy is the best investment guru to ever exist or it’s a ponzi. Take your pick

[johnsmithsf]

This acquaintance has been telling me that I am missing out on an opportunity of a life time which can lead to early retirement. He has already invested in this.
I don't know much about options and he is claiming 18 to more than 100% annual returns with options with his technique with no risk to the principle.
That's why it has piqued my interest.

[123]

SEC records seem to indicate registration from only last year:https://adviserinfo.sec.gov/individual/summary/7272906

[tananaev]

He's talking about options trading. What can possibly go wrong?

[firebirdparts]

This acquaintance has been telling me that I am missing out on an opportunity of a life time which can lead to early retirement. He has already invested in this.
I don't know much about options and he is claiming 18 to more than 100% annual returns with options with his technique with no risk to the principle.
That's why it has piqued my interest.

Well, it's a lie, but you already know that, right? It's just such an appealing lie. It's the kind of lie that makes your mouth water and gives you butterflies in your stomach. There's a science to lying.

There are literally millions of people who trade options. Their pricing behavior is well known by everybody. It's a negative sum game. Think it over.

[000]

Run, don't walk, away.

[Derpalator]

This acquaintance has been telling me that I am missing out on an opportunity of a life time which can lead to early retirement. He has already invested in this.
I don't know much about options and he is claiming 18 to more than 100% annual returns with options with his technique with no risk to the principle.
That's why it has piqued my interest.

I believe the "principle" is that of transferring your principal into his guy's wallet. So if you give him your hard-earned dollars, there is no risk to the principle. Sorry being a bit snarky but I don't want you to lose your money. Be careful. If it is too good to be true, then it aint.

[LiveSimple]

Being greedy too much is a way to lose money

[chris319]

What is his fund's ticker symbol? Can I find it on Yahoo and look up its historical returns? Can I track his fund's performance going forward? What kind of back office operation does he have? How about liquidity? Is he going to deliver when someone wants to redeem their shares?

I would want all of these questions answered to my satisfaction before I'd give it another thought, and even then the most I'd invest with him is $100. The burden of proof is on him to prove his claims.

[HomerJ]

I don't know much about options and he is claiming 18 to more than 100% annual returns with options with his technique with no risk to the principle.
That's why it has piqued my interest.

Why does an obvious lie pique your interest?

Or maybe it's not obvious to you. Okay, we can help, since we're older and wiser. It's a lie.

[shess]

One of my acquaintance referred me to this guy for investment. This financial guru who runs his own fund is claiming that he generates up to 100 percent annual return with his option strategy and that too consistently and without a risk of loss. He says less than 20% annual return is really bad.
Is it possible? Am I missing something here? I have never seen such a confident financial guru before. Also I have never heard about his company before. Have you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXsvLwzVyxw
https://nanbanenterprise.com/meet-gk/

My portfolio has had 10% IRR since 1991. If I had beaten 20% every year since then, with some years up to 100%, I wouldn't be posting here, I'd be having a hireling's assistant reading the forums and posting. Seriously, I'd be dictating my posts from a Scrooge McDuck pile of coinage. I certainly wouldn't be taking time out of my busy schedule to teach classes to peons about how to play the options market.

Of course, it could be that he makes his money teaching classes. That's a real common thing. Or it could be that his math isn't so good, so "20% return" isn't the kind of 20% return where you put in $100 and got back $120. That's also a real common thing.

An interesting aside: It's always options, isn't it? I remember a spate of options-trading courses in the farming community where I grew up, so many people were going to get rich! My guess is that it's options because nobody knows how they work, so they can Gish Gallop all over their audience.

[firebirdparts]

I don't know much about options and he is claiming 18 to more than 100% annual returns with options with his technique with no risk to the principle.
That's why it has piqued my interest.

Why does an obvious lie pique your interest?

Or maybe it's not obvious to you. Okay, we can help, since we're older and wiser. It's a lie.

It's lust, man. Lust doesn't have lie filters. Don't you feel it when you see a nearly new 4 wheel drive kubota on craigslist for $2500? I sure do.

[chris319]

I took a look at his web page. I don't see a Vanguard or Fidelity — some place you'd feel comfortable sending your money to.

No performance or expense statistics. It looks like his marketing budget is $10.

[johnsmithsf]

SEC records seem to indicate registration from only last year:https://adviserinfo.sec.gov/individual/summary/7272906

Interesting. Address listed on SEC website appears to be a "home" address rather than a business address.

[johnsmithsf]

I don't know much about options and he is claiming 18 to more than 100% annual returns with options with his technique with no risk to the principle.
That's why it has piqued my interest.

Why does an obvious lie pique your interest?

Or maybe it's not obvious to you. Okay, we can help, since we're older and wiser. It's a lie.

I guess he is saying something like with his options technique, you make money when market moves in the expected direction, but has another option as an insurance if market moves in the opposite direction. I wonder why other option guys haven't figured this out and make a killing . He talks about his 6 level training course in his copyrighted strategy

I have never seen an offer of guaranteed > 18% annual returns (and expected > 50% annual returns) from a financial firm. So being greedy I guess, especially because this acquaintance seems to be extremely confident in this guy's abilities. Now looks like this might not be a good idea.

[Cyanide123]

Hi,
One of my acquaintance referred me to this guy for investment. This financial guru who runs his own fund is claiming that he generates up to 100 percent annual return with his option strategy and that too consistently and without a risk of loss. He says less than 20% annual return is really bad.
Is it possible? Am I missing something here? I have never seen such a confident financial guru before. Also I have never heard about his company before. Have you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXsvLwzVyxw
https://nanbanenterprise.com/meet-gk/

100% has a fairly decent risk of loss. Those are pretty risky options.

I think i can do 20 percent with a similar risk profile compared to owning sp500 using naked puts and credit spreads if i was very conservative with far out there money put selling.

For reference I'm currently up 22% in last 3 months, which is when i sold my entire 3 fund portfolio and went with exclusively options only.

[Ragnoth]

They have a brochure on the website. For lower level investors, they will have you open up an account at interactive brokers (or TDA) and actively buy/sell index funds on your behalf. The following are some of the most relevant/interesting tidbits:

Our fees will range from 1.5% to 1.75% per year based on the total value of the portfolio. . . . The fees will be deducted by custodian (Interactive Brokers) on a quarterly basis and paid to Nanban Capital.

Nanban Capital LLC came into existence in July-2020. Currently, we do not have any disciplinary information to disclose.

We only buy or sell three exchange traded funds (ETFs)- SPY, QQQ, IWM. We believe there is no conflict to disclose here. We do not buy or sell individual stocks or mutual funds

Since we only trade SPY, QQQ and IWM, there is no commission for trading ETFs. When we apply option strategies to generate income, there is a cost of $0.65 per lot.

Client portfolios will be periodically managed to “Sell Covered Call” and “Secured PUT” options to generate cash flow.

Since we only invest in major indices and not in individual stocks or mutual funds or bonds etc., we do not rely on technical or fundamental analysis. We remain market neutral all the time and generate cash consistently.

The risk of loss is always there. We minimize the loss by keeping the PUT option in place all the time. This way, the account is protected from severe draw down.

To summarize, for most investors they are skimming 1.5% off the top and (1) holding generic ETF's, (2) selling covered calls / secured puts to generate some cash flow, and (3) buying married puts to get some guaranteed protection on the downside. These are not particularly advanced strategies, and on average it will underperform simply holding the ETFs directly (and that's before you factor in the giant 1.5% fee).

They aren't the only company to offer this type of service, but it's not something that I would get involved with. On a scale of "how bad is this?" it's probably somewhere between loading up on structured products, or opening up a full-service account with Edward Jones... but on the upside you get a well-dressed "guru" who says nice things about how you can empower yourself through wise investing.

They also advertise some mysterious "Private Equity/Hedge Fund with advanced GK strategies" for higher level investors that promises 20-100% returns. This is almost certainly an exaggeration (or an outright scam) for people who are already heavily invested into the guru schtick. Unless they are secretly running the high-frequency trading desk at Citadel, it's pretty much guaranteed BS. Not to mention that if they were actually generating 100% returns, they definitely wouldn't need/want your money to do it with.

[Cyanide123]

They have a brochure on the website. For lower level investors, they will have you open up an account at interactive brokers (or TDA) and actively buy/sell index funds on your behalf. The following are some of the most relevant/interesting tidbits:

Our fees will range from 1.5% to 1.75% per year based on the total value of the portfolio. . . . The fees will be deducted by custodian (Interactive Brokers) on a quarterly basis and paid to Nanban Capital.

Nanban Capital LLC came into existence in July-2020. Currently, we do not have any disciplinary information to disclose.

We only buy or sell three exchange traded funds (ETFs)- SPY, QQQ, IWM. We believe there is no conflict to disclose here. We do not buy or sell individual stocks or mutual funds

Since we only trade SPY, QQQ and IWM, there is no commission for trading ETFs. When we apply option strategies to generate income, there is a cost of $0.65 per lot.

Client portfolios will be periodically managed to “Sell Covered Call” and “Secured PUT” options to generate cash flow.

Since we only invest in major indices and not in individual stocks or mutual funds or bonds etc., we do not rely on technical or fundamental analysis. We remain market neutral all the time and generate cash consistently.

The risk of loss is always there. We minimize the loss by keeping the PUT option in place all the time. This way, the account is protected from severe draw down.

To summarize, for most investors they are skimming 1.5% off the top and (1) holding generic ETF's, (2) selling covered calls / secured puts to generate some cash flow, and (3) buying married puts to get some guaranteed protection on the downside. These are not particularly advanced strategies, and on average it will underperform simply holding the ETFs directly (and that's before you factor in the giant 1.5% fee).

They aren't the only company to offer this type of service, but it's not something that I would get involved with. On a scale of "how bad is this?" it's probably somewhere between loading up on structured products, or opening up a full-service account with Edward Jones... but on the upside you get a well-dressed "guru" who says nice things about how you can empower yourself through wise investing.

They also advertise some mysterious "Private Equity/Hedge Fund with advanced GK strategies" for higher level investors that promises 20-100% returns. This is almost certainly an exaggeration (or an outright scam) for people who are already heavily invested into the guru schtick. Unless they are secretly running the high-frequency trading desk at Citadel, it's pretty much guaranteed BS. Not to mention that if they were actually generating 100% returns, they definitely wouldn't need/want your money to do it with.

Yeah now that you've copy pasted things from their brochure, those are some pretty basic strategies and can essentially be learned in 1 hour after watching a YouTube video. No reason to pay someone 1.5% of your portfolio for that.

[magicrat]

This acquaintance has been telling me that I am missing out on an opportunity of a life time which can lead to early retirement. He has already invested in this.
I don't know much about options and he is claiming 18 to more than 100% annual returns with options with his technique with no risk to the principle.
That's why it has piqued my interest.

If this guy can in fact do this, why on earth would he do it for you?

[Wiggums]

This acquaintance has been telling me that I am missing out on an opportunity of a life time which can lead to early retirement. He has already invested in this.
I don't know much about options and he is claiming 18 to more than 100% annual returns with options with his technique with no risk to the principle.
That's why it has piqued my interest.

If this guy can in fact do this, why on earth would he do it for you?

+1000

[z3r0c00l]

This acquaintance has been telling me that I am missing out on an opportunity of a life time which can lead to early retirement. He has already invested in this.
I don't know much about options and he is claiming 18 to more than 100% annual returns with options with his technique with no risk to the principle.
That's why it has piqued my interest.

Either he is an unwitting victim or he is part of the scam looking to make some kind of referral fee.

[bradinsky]

OP,
One of the many things my parents taught me years ago was “if it seems to good to be true, it probably is”. Grab your money run! As an example, 25+ years ago, a business friend of mine told me he was guaranteed in excess of 20% returns on his money. Many people from northern Ohio, including my friend, invested with this couple & ended up losing millions of $$. Not me, because I don’t believe in fairytales. Google “Schneider scam Cleveland/northern Ohio” & you’ll be amazed. My friend lost $200K & another acquaintance lost $600K. People from all walks of life & at least 1 city government got totally screwed. All told probably in excess of $60,000,000 lost without restitution. Minimal jail time for the perps, even though they destroyed many individuals lives. All that & no trace of the money. OP RUN!!!

[MarkBarb]

You should watch some episodes of American Greed.

[Dregob]

Hi,
One of my acquaintance referred me to this guy for investment. This financial guru who runs his own fund is claiming that he generates up to 100 percent annual return with his option strategy and that too consistently and without a risk of loss. He says less than 20% annual return is really bad.
Is it possible? Am I missing something here? I have never seen such a confident financial guru before. Also I have never heard about his company before. Have you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXsvLwzVyxw
https://nanbanenterprise.com/meet-gk/

Bernie Madoff V2.0!

[Silverado]

Now looks like this might not be a good idea.

And the best part is that you asked here first! Not a penny wasted. Though hopefully you will change the statement to be a little more definitive: this absolutely is not a good idea.

If you have an IPS (investment policy statement) you might consider adding a few lines. 'I tend to be tempted....' 'always ask the good folks on the board about things, there are people there who will dig deep fast for the greater good'

One small comment. Be careful how you interact with your acquaintance that tried roping you in on this.

[Grt2bOutdoors]

He’s not lying, it is an 18 to 100 percent return fund for the “investment manager” and “your friend”, you not so much. It’s got the makings of a Ponzi scheme. They will take your money to pay others who got in earlier when the options strategy fails to produce. You or others will be left holding the bag, when the music stops.

[climber2020]

an opportunity of a life time

This phrase should always raise a red flag.

Other phrases that should also raise red flags: "once in a lifetime business opportunity", "space age technology", and "I am [insert name here], cousin of Nigerian prince".

[BrooklynInvest]

My first thought was that someone in prison gave Bernie Madoff a phone.

[Triple digit golfer]

It is so absurd that I wouldn't even consider it.

Of course he's confident. You can't dupe people into investing lots of money with you if you're not confident. He's a shyster at best and a criminal at worst. I don't have to click any links or hear any more to know that with certainty.

[Point]

Go for it. Take your assets and entrust them to this confident man. After all, your principal won’t be at risk.

Let us know how it goes.

[Strayshot]

Hi,
One of my acquaintance referred me to this guy for investment. This financial guru who runs his own fund is claiming that he generates up to 100 percent annual return with his option strategy and that too consistently and without a risk of loss. He says less than 20% annual return is really bad.
Is it possible? Am I missing something here? I have never seen such a confident financial guru before. Also I have never heard about his company before. Have you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXsvLwzVyxw
https://nanbanenterprise.com/meet-gk/

I can generate 200% annual return with no risk. Let me tell you my system: I start by getting one sucker to “invest” money with me. Then I get that person to tell their acquaintances about my confidence and abilities, and each of those folks also “invests” money with me. I make up fake statements with a 200% return and give those to my first investor, and later to the other investors. News about me spreads like wildfire until I have entire pension systems supporting my brilliance. I put the money under my mattress and use excel and creativity to generate my financial statements.

I learned how to do this from some guy named Madoff who was in the news a while back.

So absolutely OP I would go ahead and invest based on a suggestion from an acquaintance for someone who is an unknown promising huge returns for no risk! What can go wrong?

[dougs93jeep]

Hi,
One of my acquaintance referred me to this guy for investment. This financial guru who runs his own fund is claiming that he generates up to 100 percent annual return with his option strategy and that too consistently and without a risk of loss. He says less than 20% annual return is really bad.
Is it possible? Am I missing something here? I have never seen such a confident financial guru before. Also I have never heard about his company before. Have you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXsvLwzVyxw
https://nanbanenterprise.com/meet-gk/

Bernie Madoff has logged into the chat

[dknightd]

Did you know the moon was made of Blue Cheese? Good blue cheese. Many many pounds of blue cheese. Have you looked at the price of blue cheese lately? I'm working with an unnamed space company to go and mine that cheese. It will be hugely profitable. One concern is that if we mine all the cheese, there will be no more lunar tides. This concerns some environmentalists, but there are no laws. We'll make Billions. Want to invest?

Sorry, I could not resist.

[Dottie57]

I had a co-worker who had a “guy” who promised a guaranteed 10% return circa 2006. Co-worker retired. Great Recession occurred and co-worker had to find a new job. You decide the moral of the story.

[Nicolas Perrault]

High returns with low risk is a reliable indicator of fraud —William Bernstein

[ScubaHogg]

Run, don't walk, away.

+1000

[wolf359]

Hi,
One of my acquaintance referred me to this guy for investment. This financial guru who runs his own fund is claiming that he generates up to 100 percent annual return with his option strategy and that too consistently and without a risk of loss. He says less than 20% annual return is really bad.
Is it possible? Am I missing something here? I have never seen such a confident financial guru before. Also I have never heard about his company before. Have you?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXsvLwzVyxw
https://nanbanenterprise.com/meet-gk/

Bernie Madoff was pretty confident, too. You almost had to force him to take your money, because it was so exclusive. And he only claimed a 10-12% annual return.

Claims of a 100% risk-free return are a red flag.

[runninginvestor]

https://adviserinfo.sec.gov/individual/ ... ineSection

The main guy you linked to has less than 1 year if experience according to his SEC search.

Edit: just realized the entire firm is new as of The middle of 2020. That's very forward looking return projections.

[illumination]

Sort of like if someone were really psychic, would they be telling people's fortune for $20?

If a person could genuinely make these sorts of returns consistently, they'd attract massive amounts of capital and be insanely rich. They wouldn't be teaching classes for side income.

Hedge fund managers are insanely rich and last I checked, their average performance was something like 7.5% annually. This guy would be a legend.

[ruralavalon]

Be very afraid of this.

Don't even consider this.

Get far away fast.

[Walkure]

Did you know the moon was made of Blue Cheese? Good blue cheese. Many many pounds of blue cheese. Have you looked at the price of blue cheese lately? I'm working with an unnamed space company to go and mine that cheese. It will be hugely profitable. One concern is that if we mine all the cheese, there will be no more lunar tides. This concerns some environmentalists, but there are no laws. We'll make Billions. Want to invest?

Sorry, I could not resist.

The real problem here is it's undiversified. If you actually dumped that much blue cheese on the market you'd tank the price below the cost of extraction. Now if you told me that the moon was made of an complex ore containing equal parts blue cheese, medium-rare Kobe beef, organic baby arugula, and a saffron vinaigrette then we might be on to something...

[bryanm]

He talks about his 6 level training course in his copyrighted strategy

This is a triviality compared to all the other BS this guy is spewing, but just to pile on: you can't copyright an options trading strategy. (I'm an intellectual property lawyer.) This is the kind of "sounds good to non-lawyers but is actually BS" talk that should clearly indicate con-man territory. Stay far away.

[eyemgh]

Sort of like if someone were really psychic, would they be telling people's fortune for $20?

If a person could genuinely make these sorts of returns consistently, they'd attract massive amounts of capital and be insanely rich. They wouldn't be teaching classes for side income.

Hedge fund managers are insanely rich and last I checked, their average performance was something like 7.5% annually. This guy would be a legend.

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

Would you waste time hawking your services on YouTube if you could generate 100% return even on your own money. He's a charlatan.

No one, repeat, NO ONE consistently beats the market. Bill Miller had the longest streak in history at Legg Mason...15 years. His returns the following three were so bad, the fund lost all those cumulative gains. People with hindsight like to claim they would have bailed, but really? After 15 years wouldn't your gut tell you he'd get it back? He didn't.

There are no free lunches. Run away.

[humbledinvestor]

I wonder the same thing. Why bother hawking crap on YouTube if he is making money hand over fist. Why not make money and relax. Beware of GK Madoff.