Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

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Roadhog
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Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by Roadhog »

We are considering transferring our four investment accounts from Vanguard to Schwab.

My reasons are:
1. We already have an investment account at Schwab
2. Money transfers to our Chase checking account happen quickly. Also we have our grown children's bank accounts linked to Schwab so occasional gifts/reimbursements also work well.
3. We have a donor advised fund set up at Schwab.
4. My wife has dealt with Schwab many times whereas I am the principal interface with Vanguard (she has never logged on). If there are any issues or questions, our Schwab account representative is available at their local office about two miles from our house.
5. It would consolidate all holdings to essentially one place. I am 68 and my wife is 67 and in good health now. Since retiring two years ago, we have simplified a lot of our affairs, both financial and nonfinancial. Three children are all over 30, independent, and smart about things.
6. I have no complaints about Vanguard but find the Schwab online experience better and the personal service from our Schwab rep better in the few times we have needed it.

Our investments at Vanguard total high 7 figures and consist of the following:
1. Two tIRA's - mine and hers with one investment in each - VBTLX
2. A brokerage account with one investment - BMBIX
3. A mutual fund account with two investments - VTSAX and VWIUX in addition to a money market fund.

I have preliminarily discussed with our Schwab customer representative:
1. Transfer is executed as a pull from the Schwab side.
2. All cost bases and purchase dates will be preserved although it is not complicated.
3. We can hold VWIUX at Schwab but not execute any additional purchases through Schwab
4. Schwab will waive all trading commissions and give us a one-time $2500 credit.

What am I missing? This is not urgent but I can see as we age, especially if I pass on first, how this would be preferable. My wife really likes the idea of everything in one place. She is a retired CPA and very conversant in our financial matters and our personal financial situation.

Thanks.
L82GAME
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by L82GAME »

You’ve laid out a very rationale set of reasons to transfer, and it seems that you and your spouse are on the same page. There’s no reason not to proceed. Consolidation is an excellent idea, and having in-person service might be more important now as you’re progressing in retirement. Do you have all estate plans up to date with your children clued-in to your plans?

My only recommendation would be to transition your VG mutual funds to their ETF equivalents prior to making in-kind transfers to Schwab. You’ll be able to continue free trades of the ETFs that way, I believe.

Good luck!
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Sprucebark
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by Sprucebark »

Yes, move to Schwab. You can get everything Vanguard offers without actually holding an account at Vanguard. Your situation it makes perfect sense to do it. The value of Vanguard is in their funds (which you can get anywhere). There is no value in holding an account there.

Aren’t trading commissions free everywhere these days? Free at Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab, Robinhood, TD...I think you have to actually look hard to find someone that will charge you to trade. So I wouldn’t add that as a “plus” for Schwab.

VWIUX- Vanguard has a similar ETF you could purchase at Schwab. Is VTEB (VG tax exempt bond ETF) close enough? You can buy that at Schwab.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by abuss368 »

You certainly have a compelling list, which is helpful to make the best decision for you and your family.

In my opinion Vanguard, Schwab, and Fidelity, are excellent choices.

Tony
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galawdawg
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by galawdawg »

Sprucebark wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:36 am Yes, move to Schwab. You can get everything Vanguard offers without actually holding an account at Vanguard. Your situation it makes perfect sense to do it. The value of Vanguard is in their funds (which you can get anywhere). There is no value in holding an account there.

Aren’t trading commissions free everywhere these days? Free at Vanguard, Fidelity, Schwab, Robinhood, TD...I think you have to actually look hard to find someone that will charge you to trade. So I wouldn’t add that as a “plus” for Schwab.

VWIUX- Vanguard has a similar ETF you could purchase at Schwab. Is VTEB (VG tax exempt bond ETF) close enough? You can buy that at Schwab.
That is the case for ETFs. For mutual funds, E*TRADE and Chase You Invest are two brokerages that have no transaction fees on most Vanguard mutual funds. Fidelity and Schwab charge a purchase fee for Vanguard mutual funds, however, Schwab will reportedly waive transaction fees for one fund family (such as Vanguard) with a sizeable portfolio.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by abuss368 »

Most brokerages do not charge ETFs fees any longer I believe.

Tony
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Roadhog
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by Roadhog »

Follow up: I initiated the transfer of my Vanguard IRA to a newly-created Schwab IRA and the transfer is in process. I am concerned that the assets are gone from Vanguard without a single communication from Vanguard to me in advance requesting my confirmation or authorization of the transfer.

This really bothers me. I have asked my Schwab representative to address this concern from Schwab's point of view. My rep who works out of our local office says that they are notified to give us a call if they see an asset transfer.

Should I be concerned?
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birdog
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by birdog »

This is why I like ETFs. I can easily transfer them and trade them for free at basically any brokerage. I would convert to ETFs prior to the transfer. Other than that, a transfer sounds reasonable to me. I'll be at Schwab soon enough myself seeing as how they acquired TDA.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by stan1 »

Roadhog wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:26 pm Follow up: I initiated the transfer of my Vanguard IRA to a newly-created Schwab IRA and the transfer is in process. I am concerned that the assets are gone from Vanguard without a single communication from Vanguard to me in advance requesting my confirmation or authorization of the transfer.

This really bothers me. I have asked my Schwab representative to address this concern from Schwab's point of view. My rep who works out of our local office says that they are notified to give us a call if they see an asset transfer.

Should I be concerned?
No, you should not be concerned, that's the way it works. If Schwab pulls the assets Vanguard will not call you to ask "are you sure you really want to do this?" You would have had a hiccup if the accounts were registered differently (different names, different SSN).
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by birdog »

Roadhog wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 12:26 pm Follow up: I initiated the transfer of my Vanguard IRA to a newly-created Schwab IRA and the transfer is in process. I am concerned that the assets are gone from Vanguard without a single communication from Vanguard to me in advance requesting my confirmation or authorization of the transfer.

This really bothers me. I have asked my Schwab representative to address this concern from Schwab's point of view. My rep who works out of our local office says that they are notified to give us a call if they see an asset transfer.

Should I be concerned?
I've done numerous transfers and never heard a peep from the brokerage where the money was being pulled out of.
slickracer
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by slickracer »

I've been contemplating this myself as I've always done the investing with Vanguard and there is a Schwab branch less than a mile from home. I like the idea of my Wife having someone to help, although our fee-only planner would help her as well.

I looked up the symbols of a few Admiral funds and they are not available at Schwab- Wellington, Wellesley, Equity Income, Health Care and Capital Opportunity. If anyone knows a loophole that would be great.
Topic Author
Roadhog
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by Roadhog »

Talk to Schwab. I have very few investing transactions at this point in my life. Schwab said they would hold VWIUX for me but I cannot purchase through them. Can you purchase in Vanguard then periodically transfer to your Schwab account?
euphonious
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by euphonious »

Roadhog wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:34 pm Talk to Schwab. I have very few investing transactions at this point in my life. Schwab said they would hold VWIUX for me but I cannot purchase through them. Can you purchase in Vanguard then periodically transfer to your Schwab account?
Keep in mind the minimum investment for VWIUX is $50,000. So if you've moved all your VWIUX to Schwab, you might not be able to make additional purchases of VWIUX in less than $50,000 lots.

I doubt you'd be able to purchase VWITX (investor shares), move them to Schwab, then have Schwab convert them to VWIUX.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by mkc »

slickracer wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:05 pm I've been contemplating this myself as I've always done the investing with Vanguard and there is a Schwab branch less than a mile from home. I like the idea of my Wife having someone to help, although our fee-only planner would help her as well.

I looked up the symbols of a few Admiral funds and they are not available at Schwab- Wellington, Wellesley, Equity Income, Health Care and Capital Opportunity. If anyone knows a loophole that would be great.

Bumping this because I've also been doing research into Schwab for some consolidation...

It appears that Admiral shares of Wellington are now available at Schwab if you're an existing shareholder. No more "institutional-only" notice.

Admiral shares of the other 4 funds are still either Institutional or Trust only.
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mangorunner
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by mangorunner »

Roadhog wrote: Wed Feb 10, 2021 6:07 am We are considering transferring our four investment accounts from Vanguard to Schwab.
...
1. We already have an investment account at Schwab
...
Our investments at Vanguard total high 7 figures...
...
I have preliminarily discussed with our Schwab customer representative:
4. Schwab will ... give us a one-time $2500 credit.
Thank you for this post. It was very helpful, as I am considering the same thing.

I'm interested in learning more about the $2,500 one-time credit. Was that an actual cash bonus for opening a new Schwab account(s)? I'm curious because you said that you already have an investment account at Schwab. Was the credit in any way similar to Schwab's other Bonus Awards https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/nn ... spect.html (which are much lower)? Is it related to the considerable amount of the transfer? How did you swing that $2,500? Would like to do the same. Thanks in advance for your help!
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by Wiggums »

Roadhog wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:34 pm Talk to Schwab. I have very few investing transactions at this point in my life. Schwab said they would hold VWIUX for me but I cannot purchase through them. Can you purchase in Vanguard then periodically transfer to your Schwab account?
Why would you do that after moving to Schwab? Just buy the equivalent Schwab ETF
L82GAME
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by L82GAME »

Wiggums wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 9:12 am
Roadhog wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:34 pm Talk to Schwab. I have very few investing transactions at this point in my life. Schwab said they would hold VWIUX for me but I cannot purchase through them. Can you purchase in Vanguard then periodically transfer to your Schwab account?
Why would you do that after moving to Schwab? Just buy the equivalent Schwab ETF
+1!
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by bikechuck »

Having spent the majority of my career working for a very well managed company that offered a 24X7 online service I know that disruptive hardware and software issues occur from time to time for a variety of reasons .

I would never use just one financial service provider because there is a risk they could be down at a time when I need access to my funds. This risk is easy to mitigate by using two or three providers and doing so does not overly complicate the ability to manage a portfolio.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by lazynovice »

bikechuck wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:28 am Having spent the majority of my career working for a very well managed company that offered a 24X7 online service I know that disruptive hardware and software issues occur from time to time for a variety of reasons .

I would never use just one financial service provider because there is a risk they could be down at a time when I need access to my funds. This risk is easy to mitigate by using two or three providers and doing so does not overly complicate the ability to manage a portfolio.
I think the OP is just consolidating his investment accounts, not every account he has. I used to have three brokerage accounts due to this fear. In 12 years, I have never experienced an outage at any of them that inconvenienced me. I finally consolidated to one place in 2020.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by BogleFan510 »

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ScottyDog
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by ScottyDog »

slickracer wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:05 pm I've been contemplating this myself as I've always done the investing with Vanguard and there is a Schwab branch less than a mile from home. I like the idea of my Wife having someone to help, although our fee-only planner would help her as well.

I looked up the symbols of a few Admiral funds and they are not available at Schwab- Wellington, Wellesley, Equity Income, Health Care and Capital Opportunity. If anyone knows a loophole that would be great.
Local office benefits...yes/agree...much better than trying to set up VPAS and pay $3,000 every year on a $1m portfolio. Looking into the same
option here in Raleigh with a local Fido office...will give me a $1,000 bonus for moving the money to them. No advisor fees and local service for
wife when I am gone.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by nalor511 »

ScottyDog wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:05 pm
slickracer wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:05 pm I've been contemplating this myself as I've always done the investing with Vanguard and there is a Schwab branch less than a mile from home. I like the idea of my Wife having someone to help, although our fee-only planner would help her as well.

I looked up the symbols of a few Admiral funds and they are not available at Schwab- Wellington, Wellesley, Equity Income, Health Care and Capital Opportunity. If anyone knows a loophole that would be great.
Local office benefits...yes/agree...much better than trying to set up VPAS and pay $3,000 every year on a $1m portfolio. Looking into the same
option here in Raleigh with a local Fido office...will give me a $1,000 bonus for moving the money to them. No advisor fees and local service for
wife when I am gone.
You can get more than $1k out of Fido for transferring $1m
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by bikechuck »

lazynovice wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 12:04 pm
bikechuck wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 10:28 am Having spent the majority of my career working for a very well managed company that offered a 24X7 online service I know that disruptive hardware and software issues occur from time to time for a variety of reasons .

I would never use just one financial service provider because there is a risk they could be down at a time when I need access to my funds. This risk is easy to mitigate by using two or three providers and doing so does not overly complicate the ability to manage a portfolio.
I think the OP is just consolidating his investment accounts, not every account he has. I used to have three brokerage accounts due to this fear. In 12 years, I have never experienced an outage at any of them that inconvenienced me. I finally consolidated to one place in 2020.
I believe that you are right that the OP was referring to his investment accounts only. Based on my career experience I would never consolidate my investment accounts with one broker.

The risk is small but real and it is easy to mitigate. I wish you nothing but the best with the path you have chosen
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by 123 »

Vanguard has a great automatic RMD service, works really well with mutual fund holdings.

Schwab has an automatic RMD service BUT it is tied to using one of their package services, like the Intelligent Portfolio service that keeps a portion of your portfolio in cash to generate income for Schwab. Yes you can do manual RMDs at Schwab and its not difficult. It could become a chore. But those automated RMDs that Vanguard does for us (on an inherited IRA) makes it a simple, no touch, no fuss, operation.

Yes I love Schwab, we used them for over 20 years and have substantial accounts, but thinking down-the-road about RMD time is causing us to weigh other options. We also have accounts at Fidelity and their automatic RMD service seems pretty similar to Vanguard, without having to be bundled with some other service to get it like Schwab.
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Statistical
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by Statistical »

The only significant issue is Vanguard Mutual Funds instead of Vanguard ETFs.

Almost every broker these days have free stock (to include all ETFs) trading. Most don't have free Mutual Funds from fund families other than their own.

I believe Schwab would charge $75 a trade to buy or sell Vanguard mutual funds which is just laughably bad. It is easily solve though by calling Vanguard and having them convert your shares to the ETF equivalent. The alternative on a tax sheltered account would be to sell everything and buy Schwab family index funds instead but I am increasingly liking the universal portability of ETFs. Very small added bonus they tend to have even lower ERs.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by mkc »

Statistical wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:19 pm The only significant issue is Vanguard Mutual Funds instead of Vanguard ETFs.
I believe Schwab would charge $75 a trade to buy or sell Vanguard mutual funds which is just laughably bad. It is easily solve though by calling Vanguard and having them convert your shares to the ETF equivalent.
There are a number of Vanguard funds (Wellesley, Wellington, HealthCare, Primecap, etc.) for which there are no ETF equivalents. Some of those are only available as Investor shares at Schwab.

There are several reports of Schwab waiving the transaction fees for a single fund family if your account balance is high enough, so converting to ETFs (or worrying about those with no ETF equivalent) may not be a concern for some.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by lazynovice »

Statistical wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 9:19 pm

I believe Schwab would charge $75 a trade to buy or sell Vanguard mutual funds which is just laughably bad….
Schwab and Fidelity charge you to buy certain mutual funds including Vanguard, but not to sell them.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by ScottyDog »

nalor511 wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 4:52 pm
ScottyDog wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:05 pm
slickracer wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:05 pm I've been contemplating this myself as I've always done the investing with Vanguard and there is a Schwab branch less than a mile from home. I like the idea of my Wife having someone to help, although our fee-only planner would help her as well.

I looked up the symbols of a few Admiral funds and they are not available at Schwab- Wellington, Wellesley, Equity Income, Health Care and Capital Opportunity. If anyone knows a loophole that would be great.
Local office benefits...yes/agree...much better than trying to set up VPAS and pay $3,000 every year on a $1m portfolio. Looking into the same
option here in Raleigh with a local Fido office...will give me a $1,000 bonus for moving the money to them. No advisor fees and local service for
wife when I am gone.
You can get more than $1k out of Fido for transferring $1m
Schwab say $1,500...will see if Fido will do a match
Invest2027
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by Invest2027 »

If you go there will be trouble
and if you stay it will be double
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by xb7 »

ScottyDog wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:05 pm Local office benefits...yes/agree...much better than trying to set up VPAS and pay $3,000 every year on a $1m portfolio. Looking into the same
option here in Raleigh with a local Fido office...will give me a $1,000 bonus for moving the money to them. No advisor fees and local service for
wife when I am gone.
I periodically consider a move from Vanguard to either Schwab or Fidelity. One concern I have is the "when I am gone" aspect, or the similar "when I'm in substantial congnitive decline". What's the likelihood that a Schwab or Fidelity advisor would put me or my heirs into higher fee investment vehicles that --- in my right mind --- I would never select or accept?

I don't have an answer to this question, but feel better about having my money remain with Vanguard for this reason. Well, plus 'inertia'. :-)

I actually just opened a donor advised fund with Fidelity, as I consider Vanguard's offering there to be inferior. I suspect that if I ever do move, it will be because Vanguard has gone on to do yet another thing that bugs me. The latest is how I have yet again lost my Flagship rep. This time I don't think I'll bother to complain, as a specific rep these days doesn't seem to stay around long enough to get acquainted.

It seems to me now that the benefits at Vanguard for having a substantial amount invested there have become vanishingly small. I wonder if folks with relatively high assets at Schwab or Fidelity (or for that matter other places ... Merrill Edge? J.P. Morgan Chase?) could summarize what they get for having what level of assets? I'm not talking about anything that requires a paid service such as Vanguard's PAS, just for having a decent sized asset base at the brokerage.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by sport »

xb7 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:35 am I periodically consider a move from Vanguard to either Schwab or Fidelity. One concern I have is the "when I am gone" aspect, or the similar "when I'm in substantial congnitive decline". What's the likelihood that a Schwab or Fidelity advisor would put me or my heirs into higher fee investment vehicles that --- in my right mind --- I would never select or accept?

I don't have an answer to this question, but feel better about having my money remain with Vanguard for this reason.
+1 I feel this is a very important reason to stay with Vanguard.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by galawdawg »

sport wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:48 am
xb7 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:35 am I periodically consider a move from Vanguard to either Schwab or Fidelity. One concern I have is the "when I am gone" aspect, or the similar "when I'm in substantial congnitive decline". What's the likelihood that a Schwab or Fidelity advisor would put me or my heirs into higher fee investment vehicles that --- in my right mind --- I would never select or accept?

I don't have an answer to this question, but feel better about having my money remain with Vanguard for this reason.
+1 I feel this is a very important reason to stay with Vanguard.
A lot of folks here opine that they stay at Vanguard so that they can instruct their surviving spouse/heirs to move the portfolio to Vanguard PAS.

That seems like letting the tail wag the dog. Sacrifice excellent customer service and the benefits of being at Schwab or Fidelity now just in case they predecease their spouse. And then the surviving spouse can call Vanguard PAS to sign up for VPAS.

Can't one who is at Fidelity or Schwab still instruct their surviving spouse to call Vanguard PAS to sign up for VPAS? It is just a simple transfer-in-kind....
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by sport »

galawdawg wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:15 pm
sport wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:48 am
xb7 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:35 am I periodically consider a move from Vanguard to either Schwab or Fidelity. One concern I have is the "when I am gone" aspect, or the similar "when I'm in substantial congnitive decline". What's the likelihood that a Schwab or Fidelity advisor would put me or my heirs into higher fee investment vehicles that --- in my right mind --- I would never select or accept?

I don't have an answer to this question, but feel better about having my money remain with Vanguard for this reason.
+1 I feel this is a very important reason to stay with Vanguard.
A lot of folks here opine that they stay at Vanguard so that they can instruct their surviving spouse/heirs to move the portfolio to Vanguard PAS.

That seems like letting the tail wag the dog. Sacrifice excellent customer service and the benefits of being at Schwab or Fidelity now just in case they predecease their spouse. And then the surviving spouse can call Vanguard PAS to sign up for VPAS.

Can't one who is at Fidelity or Schwab still instruct their surviving spouse to call Vanguard PAS to sign up for VPAS? It is just a simple transfer-in-kind....
After many years of not using an advisory service, it is very unlikely that I (if impaired) or my heirs would want to use VPAS. In any such situation, I would trust V more than F or S to not take advantage of the situation. A good salesperson would know how to get around the "outdated" instructions left by a deceased investor.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by lazynovice »

galawdawg wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:15 pm
sport wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:48 am
xb7 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:35 am I periodically consider a move from Vanguard to either Schwab or Fidelity. One concern I have is the "when I am gone" aspect, or the similar "when I'm in substantial congnitive decline". What's the likelihood that a Schwab or Fidelity advisor would put me or my heirs into higher fee investment vehicles that --- in my right mind --- I would never select or accept?

I don't have an answer to this question, but feel better about having my money remain with Vanguard for this reason.
+1 I feel this is a very important reason to stay with Vanguard.
A lot of folks here opine that they stay at Vanguard so that they can instruct their surviving spouse/heirs to move the portfolio to Vanguard PAS.

That seems like letting the tail wag the dog. Sacrifice excellent customer service and the benefits of being at Schwab or Fidelity now just in case they predecease their spouse. And then the surviving spouse can call Vanguard PAS to sign up for VPAS.

Can't one who is at Fidelity or Schwab still instruct their surviving spouse to call Vanguard PAS to sign up for VPAS? It is just a simple transfer-in-kind....
Our Fidelity reps have accepted the “we only invest in index funds, thank you” for more than seven years. I am sure he will accept it when one of us dies.

My husband does not like investing but he is no dummy. He knows about front end loads and expense ratios. So do my kids. No one is going to get sold something they don’t need.
“I didn’t want my sailboat to be in the driveway when I died.” Nomadland
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by sport »

lazynovice wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:37 pm
galawdawg wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:15 pm
sport wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:48 am
xb7 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:35 am I periodically consider a move from Vanguard to either Schwab or Fidelity. One concern I have is the "when I am gone" aspect, or the similar "when I'm in substantial congnitive decline". What's the likelihood that a Schwab or Fidelity advisor would put me or my heirs into higher fee investment vehicles that --- in my right mind --- I would never select or accept?

I don't have an answer to this question, but feel better about having my money remain with Vanguard for this reason.
+1 I feel this is a very important reason to stay with Vanguard.
A lot of folks here opine that they stay at Vanguard so that they can instruct their surviving spouse/heirs to move the portfolio to Vanguard PAS.

That seems like letting the tail wag the dog. Sacrifice excellent customer service and the benefits of being at Schwab or Fidelity now just in case they predecease their spouse. And then the surviving spouse can call Vanguard PAS to sign up for VPAS.

Can't one who is at Fidelity or Schwab still instruct their surviving spouse to call Vanguard PAS to sign up for VPAS? It is just a simple transfer-in-kind....
Our Fidelity reps have accepted the “we only invest in index funds, thank you” for more than seven years. I am sure he will accept it when one of us dies.

My husband does not like investing but he is no dummy. He knows about front end loads and expense ratios. So do my kids. No one is going to get sold something they don’t need.
You have done well! Unfortunately, not all families are as sophisticated as yours.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by lazynovice »

sport wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:59 pm
lazynovice wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:37 pm
galawdawg wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:15 pm
sport wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:48 am
xb7 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:35 am I periodically consider a move from Vanguard to either Schwab or Fidelity. One concern I have is the "when I am gone" aspect, or the similar "when I'm in substantial congnitive decline". What's the likelihood that a Schwab or Fidelity advisor would put me or my heirs into higher fee investment vehicles that --- in my right mind --- I would never select or accept?

I don't have an answer to this question, but feel better about having my money remain with Vanguard for this reason.
+1 I feel this is a very important reason to stay with Vanguard.
A lot of folks here opine that they stay at Vanguard so that they can instruct their surviving spouse/heirs to move the portfolio to Vanguard PAS.

That seems like letting the tail wag the dog. Sacrifice excellent customer service and the benefits of being at Schwab or Fidelity now just in case they predecease their spouse. And then the surviving spouse can call Vanguard PAS to sign up for VPAS.

Can't one who is at Fidelity or Schwab still instruct their surviving spouse to call Vanguard PAS to sign up for VPAS? It is just a simple transfer-in-kind....
Our Fidelity reps have accepted the “we only invest in index funds, thank you” for more than seven years. I am sure he will accept it when one of us dies.

My husband does not like investing but he is no dummy. He knows about front end loads and expense ratios. So do my kids. No one is going to get sold something they don’t need.
You have done well! Unfortunately, not all families are as sophisticated as yours.
If your spouse and kids are that unsophisticated, won’t they just cancel PAS when their friend raves about how wonderful their Edward Jones advisor is? Because he always answers their calls and even comes to their house. Or maybe your nephew goes to work for Raymond James and your sister in law convinces your wife she should help her nephew by moving her investments there? Shouldn’t you have a conversation about WHY you choose PAS instead of just telling them what to do? I’m not selling you on Fidelity. I’m telling you of you want to be paranoid, you aren’t thinking big enough.
“I didn’t want my sailboat to be in the driveway when I died.” Nomadland
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by galawdawg »

sport wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:24 pm
galawdawg wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 12:15 pm
sport wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:48 am
xb7 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:35 am I periodically consider a move from Vanguard to either Schwab or Fidelity. One concern I have is the "when I am gone" aspect, or the similar "when I'm in substantial congnitive decline". What's the likelihood that a Schwab or Fidelity advisor would put me or my heirs into higher fee investment vehicles that --- in my right mind --- I would never select or accept?

I don't have an answer to this question, but feel better about having my money remain with Vanguard for this reason.
+1 I feel this is a very important reason to stay with Vanguard.
A lot of folks here opine that they stay at Vanguard so that they can instruct their surviving spouse/heirs to move the portfolio to Vanguard PAS.

That seems like letting the tail wag the dog. Sacrifice excellent customer service and the benefits of being at Schwab or Fidelity now just in case they predecease their spouse. And then the surviving spouse can call Vanguard PAS to sign up for VPAS.

Can't one who is at Fidelity or Schwab still instruct their surviving spouse to call Vanguard PAS to sign up for VPAS? It is just a simple transfer-in-kind....
After many years of not using an advisory service, it is very unlikely that I (if impaired) or my heirs would want to use VPAS. In any such situation, I would trust V more than F or S to not take advantage of the situation. A good salesperson would know how to get around the "outdated" instructions left by a deceased investor.
Is it really that you trust Vanguard more than Fidelity or Schwab or is it that the financial cost of succumbing to any sales pitches may currently be lower at Vanguard than Fidelity or Schwab (depending on the Fidelity or Schwab service the investor chooses)?

If you mean you really trust Vanguard more, may I inquire what that is based upon?

In my experience with Vanguard, they very persistently and aggressive marketed VPAS, refusing to stop the emails, banner ads and pop-ups even after several pointed demands that they do so. Even their front-line customer service representatives would attempt to "upsell" VPAS during phone calls.

I haven't been at Schwab for a very long time, but haven't received a single sales pitch. in fact, when I took an elderly family member to Schwab to help him invest the proceeds from the sale of his home, even though we had discussed investing 25/75 in a total stock index fund and total bond index fund, he still asked the advisor, "how do you think I should invest it?" The response? A total stock index fund and a total bond index fund, very conservatively allocated.

Of course, YMMV. :sharebeer
Last edited by galawdawg on Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by csm »

123 wrote: Tue Jul 06, 2021 5:48 pm Vanguard has a great automatic RMD service, works really well with mutual fund holdings.

Schwab has an automatic RMD service BUT it is tied to using one of their package services, like the Intelligent Portfolio service that keeps a portion of your portfolio in cash to generate income for Schwab. Yes you can do manual RMDs at Schwab and its not difficult. It could become a chore. But those automated RMDs that Vanguard does for us (on an inherited IRA) makes it a simple, no touch, no fuss, operation.

Yes I love Schwab, we used them for over 20 years and have substantial accounts, but thinking down-the-road about RMD time is causing us to weigh other options. We also have accounts at Fidelity and their automatic RMD service seems pretty similar to Vanguard, without having to be bundled with some other service to get it like Schwab.
Fidelity's automated RMD service is set and forget, very simple. I have an inherited IRA from my mother with Fidelity that I set up years ago (2014) to draw the minimum required every year in early December. Works without a hitch every year. No bundling with other services - all my other holdings are just index mutual funds.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by lazynovice »

xb7 wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 11:35 am
ScottyDog wrote: Sun Jul 04, 2021 1:05 pm Local office benefits...yes/agree...much better than trying to set up VPAS and pay $3,000 every year on a $1m portfolio. Looking into the same
option here in Raleigh with a local Fido office...will give me a $1,000 bonus for moving the money to them. No advisor fees and local service for
wife when I am gone.
I periodically consider a move from Vanguard to either Schwab or Fidelity. One concern I have is the "when I am gone" aspect, or the similar "when I'm in substantial congnitive decline". What's the likelihood that a Schwab or Fidelity advisor would put me or my heirs into higher fee investment vehicles that --- in my right mind --- I would never select or accept?

I don't have an answer to this question, but feel better about having my money remain with Vanguard for this reason. Well, plus 'inertia'. :-)

I actually just opened a donor advised fund with Fidelity, as I consider Vanguard's offering there to be inferior. I suspect that if I ever do move, it will be because Vanguard has gone on to do yet another thing that bugs me. The latest is how I have yet again lost my Flagship rep. This time I don't think I'll bother to complain, as a specific rep these days doesn't seem to stay around long enough to get acquainted.

It seems to me now that the benefits at Vanguard for having a substantial amount invested there have become vanishingly small. I wonder if folks with relatively high assets at Schwab or Fidelity (or for that matter other places ... Merrill Edge? J.P. Morgan Chase?) could summarize what they get for having what level of assets? I'm not talking about anything that requires a paid service such as Vanguard's PAS, just for having a decent sized asset base at the brokerage.
I don’t really know what I get because I am a Boglehead and I try to keep everything as simple as I can.

-I have a personal advisor who I can email directly with complicated questions. Those have been things like “Can I hold Admiral shares of vanguard mutual funds here?” “How do I transfer a custodial Roth for a child who is over 18 but under 21?” “Can I convert my Vanguard mutual funds to ETFs without moving them back to Vanguard?” All of these questions can be directed to the 800 number too. He was the one who suggested I convert to the ETFs pointing out the lower ER.

-I get free TurboTax.

-When I call the 800 number my calls go to a special group. I think I get through faster but I don’t know.

That’s all I know about. I guess my answer is Fidelity has great customer service and tools for all levels of assets. Branches, 24/7 phone support, fractional shares, etc.

I honestly am not knocking Vanguard. My experiences with Vanguard were great. People should stay there if they like it. But the paranoia about non-Vanguard brokerages is misplaced in my opinion. And if you are worried, the solution is not to tell your heirs to go to PAS blindly. If they don’t know WHY they should be at PAS, the not-so-great customer service will drive them into the loving arms of Edward Jones, Raymond James, etc.
“I didn’t want my sailboat to be in the driveway when I died.” Nomadland
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by sport »

galawdawg wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:12 pm If you mean you really trust Vanguard more, may I inquire what that is based upon?
Sure. Vanguard does not have any expensive products to sell. They only have low cost no-load mutual funds. They also do not have any expensive management fees. The 0.3% PAS is the only thing they have to "sell". Their advisors and other people do not work on commission, so there is no conflict of interest. Where other companies own the funds they offer, Vanguard is owned by the funds. Vanguard is not set up to make a profit. Any income they earn after expenses is used to lower the ERs of their funds. There are no other owners or shareholders.

The overall culture of Vanguard, as Mr. Bogle stated, is to give the small investor a fair shake. Prior to Vanguard offering low cost funds, investment costs were high throughout the industry. I believe that the only reason investment costs have decreased in recent years is that other companies were forced to do that in order to compete with Vanguard. Vanguard was also a pioneer in the establishment of index funds that we Bogleheads love so much.

I don't like everything that Vanguard does nor they way they do some things. However, the overriding reason for my trust is that they will not try to take advantage of me nor my heirs to any significant extent.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by bondsr4me »

sport wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:04 pm
galawdawg wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:12 pm If you mean you really trust Vanguard more, may I inquire what that is based upon?
Sure. Vanguard does not have any expensive products to sell. They only have low cost no-load mutual funds. They also do not have any expensive management fees. The 0.3% PAS is the only thing they have to "sell". Their advisors and other people do not work on commission, so there is no conflict of interest. Where other companies own the funds they offer, Vanguard is owned by the funds. Vanguard is not set up to make a profit. Any income they earn after expenses is used to lower the ERs of their funds. There are no other owners or shareholders.

The overall culture of Vanguard, as Mr. Bogle stated, is to give the small investor a fair shake. Prior to Vanguard offering low cost funds, investment costs were high throughout the industry. I believe that the only reason investment costs have decreased in recent years is that other companies were forced to do that in order to compete with Vanguard. Vanguard was also a pioneer in the establishment of index funds that we Bogleheads love so much.

I don't like everything that Vanguard does nor they way they do some things. However, the overriding reason for my trust is that they will not try to take advantage of me nor my heirs to any significant extent.
+100…..really very good explanation!
Yes, VG is not perfect…nor is any other broker.
VG has some issues that it must straighten out and I believe in time it will.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by galawdawg »

sport wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:04 pm
galawdawg wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:12 pm If you mean you really trust Vanguard more, may I inquire what that is based upon?
Sure. Vanguard does not have any expensive products to sell. They only have low cost no-load mutual funds. They also do not have any expensive management fees. The 0.3% PAS is the only thing they have to "sell". Their advisors and other people do not work on commission, so there is no conflict of interest. Where other companies own the funds they offer, Vanguard is owned by the funds. Vanguard is not set up to make a profit. Any income they earn after expenses is used to lower the ERs of their funds. There are no other owners or shareholders.

The overall culture of Vanguard, as Mr. Bogle stated, is to give the small investor a fair shake. Prior to Vanguard offering low cost funds, investment costs were high throughout the industry. I believe that the only reason investment costs have decreased in recent years is that other companies were forced to do that in order to compete with Vanguard. Vanguard was also a pioneer in the establishment of index funds that we Bogleheads love so much.

I don't like everything that Vanguard does nor they way they do some things. However, the overriding reason for my trust is that they will not try to take advantage of me nor my heirs to any significant extent.
Respectfully, some of what you believe about Vanguard is simply not true. While it is an often repeated misconception, Vanguard is not a non-profit or not for profit company.

Joseph DiStefano of the Philadelphia Inquirer, one of the most knowledgeable journalists on the subject of Vanguard, can explain it better than I can. From a few articles over the past few years...

In reporting that Vanguard's SEC filings have dropped claims that they are non-profit and operate at cost:
No more claim that Vanguard’s way offers a “no profit" contrast to the “profit component” that other companies pack into their management fees. Indeed, company officials acknowledge it is a private, for-profit company that earns profits and pays income taxes. “They are not a non-profit,” said Daniel Wiener, chairman of Adviser Investments, a New York company that also sells Vanguard funds. “How else could the board of directors determine a “dividend” on the profit-sharing plan that pays bonuses larger than salaries to Vanguard’s senior people annually? "
https://fusion.inquirer.com/columnists/ ... 90207.html

For example, Vanguard PAS is a huge profit center for Vanguard, likely earning them in the neighborhood of $400 million a year above their costs. Where have those profits gone? We know that Vanguard upper management and executives receive a share of the profits but because Vanguard, unlike publicly traded companies, refuses to disclose executive compensation to its "client-owners", we really don't know what they earn. But this article from the Philadelphia Inquirer is illuminating: https://www.inquirer.com/business/vangu ... 90610.html.

Some quotes from the article:
Vanguard’s Partnership Plan pays out millions of dollars a year to Vanguard’s top executives, while limiting most employees to a bonus that is calculated using a set of variables related to their job “grade” and tenure to determine the payout
For qualifying employees, Vanguard’s profit-sharing dividends will be calculated at $283.48 per point for 2018 and $248.45 per point for 2017, up from $213.26 in 2016. (The more points you have at Vanguard, the more profit sharing you receive.)
The takeaway: “Vanguard is not, and has never been, a nonprofit, though much of the language around ‘operating at cost’ does at times make it sound as though they are,” Wiener said. Vanguard “is exceedingly profitable, and hence has the ability to pay its captains millions of dollars every year." Just two funds, 500 Index and Total Stock Market Index, generated about $600 million in fees alone last year, estimated Wiener’s colleague Jeff DeMaso.
Vanguard spokesperson Alyssa Thornton declined to comment on the profit-sharing details. “Consistent with years prior, we don’t discuss the specifics of our compensation program, except to say that Partnership enables our crew to celebrate and share in the success and value they’ve helped to achieve on behalf of Vanguard investors.”
In fact, the Vanguard Group is vacuuming up record profits, causing their "partnership" dividends (i.e., profits paid to Vanguard executives and other employees) to rise at a rate exponentially higher than the S&P 500 did over the same period of time. From the Philadelphia Inquirer:

Image

Now if us "client-owners" want to know exactly how much profit the Vanguard Group makes each year and how much of that goes to decrease expense ratios vs. to Vanguard executives and select employees via partnership dividends, sorry. Vanguard refuses to disclose that information, even to the "client-owners". Schwab, on the other hand, is completely transparent, you can look all of that up in their annual report, online for the world to see.

As far as conflict of interest, Vanguard advisors most certainly have conflicts of interest. The most obvious of these is that they will ONLY put you in Vanguard proprietary funds even when a better alternative may exist. Just try to create a Vanguard PAS portfolio consisting of ETF funds from Schwab, Fidelity, Blackrock or anyone else. It won't happen. Also consider Vanguard's aggressive marketing of their AUM advisor service to investors, regardless of whether such an advisory service is in the client's best interest.

And unfortunately, IMO, this is not the same Vanguard culture that Jack Bogle created. If you want evidence of that, just look at the chart above to see what happened to partnership dividends since 2009, the year Jack was sent packing by Vanguard. While Vanguard holds itself out as the "knight in shining armor" for the average investor, I'm afraid that their suit of armor has become rather tarnished. '

But glad you are satisfied there! Each investor should choose for themselves where to entrust their investments. :beer
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by dratkinson »

euphonious wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 9:31 pm
Roadhog wrote: Fri Feb 12, 2021 8:34 pm Talk to Schwab. I have very few investing transactions at this point in my life. Schwab said they would hold VWIUX for me but I cannot purchase through them. Can you purchase in Vanguard then periodically transfer to your Schwab account?
Keep in mind the minimum investment for VWIUX is $50,000. So if you've moved all your VWIUX to Schwab, you might not be able to make additional purchases of VWIUX in less than $50,000 lots.

I doubt you'd be able to purchase VWITX (investor shares), move them to Schwab, then have Schwab convert them to VWIUX.
The $50K limit is to own Admiral shares. New purchases of VWIUX can be made in any increment.

There is no ETF class of VWITX/VWIUX, but OP could own Vanguard's VTEB (national index muni), or iShares MUB* (national muni). (* Recall reading other BH's recommending.)
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by lazynovice »

galawdawg wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:37 pm
sport wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:04 pm
galawdawg wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 1:12 pm If you mean you really trust Vanguard more, may I inquire what that is based upon?
Sure. Vanguard does not have any expensive products to sell. They only have low cost no-load mutual funds. They also do not have any expensive management fees. The 0.3% PAS is the only thing they have to "sell". Their advisors and other people do not work on commission, so there is no conflict of interest. Where other companies own the funds they offer, Vanguard is owned by the funds. Vanguard is not set up to make a profit. Any income they earn after expenses is used to lower the ERs of their funds. There are no other owners or shareholders.

The overall culture of Vanguard, as Mr. Bogle stated, is to give the small investor a fair shake. Prior to Vanguard offering low cost funds, investment costs were high throughout the industry. I believe that the only reason investment costs have decreased in recent years is that other companies were forced to do that in order to compete with Vanguard. Vanguard was also a pioneer in the establishment of index funds that we Bogleheads love so much.

I don't like everything that Vanguard does nor they way they do some things. However, the overriding reason for my trust is that they will not try to take advantage of me nor my heirs to any significant extent.
Respectfully, some of what you believe about Vanguard is simply not true. While it is an often repeated misconception, Vanguard is not a non-profit or not for profit company.

Joseph DiStefano of the Philadelphia Inquirer, one of the most knowledgeable journalists on the subject of Vanguard, can explain it better than I can. From a few articles over the past few years...

In reporting that Vanguard's SEC filings have dropped claims that they are non-profit and operate at cost:
No more claim that Vanguard’s way offers a “no profit" contrast to the “profit component” that other companies pack into their management fees. Indeed, company officials acknowledge it is a private, for-profit company that earns profits and pays income taxes. “They are not a non-profit,” said Daniel Wiener, chairman of Adviser Investments, a New York company that also sells Vanguard funds. “How else could the board of directors determine a “dividend” on the profit-sharing plan that pays bonuses larger than salaries to Vanguard’s senior people annually? "
https://fusion.inquirer.com/columnists/ ... 90207.html

For example, Vanguard PAS is a huge profit center for Vanguard, likely earning them in the neighborhood of $400 million a year above their costs. Where have those profits gone? We know that Vanguard upper management and executives receive a share of the profits but because Vanguard, unlike publicly traded companies, refuses to disclose executive compensation to its "client-owners", we really don't know what they earn. But this article from the Philadelphia Inquirer is illuminating: https://www.inquirer.com/business/vangu ... 90610.html.

Some quotes from the article:
Vanguard’s Partnership Plan pays out millions of dollars a year to Vanguard’s top executives, while limiting most employees to a bonus that is calculated using a set of variables related to their job “grade” and tenure to determine the payout
For qualifying employees, Vanguard’s profit-sharing dividends will be calculated at $283.48 per point for 2018 and $248.45 per point for 2017, up from $213.26 in 2016. (The more points you have at Vanguard, the more profit sharing you receive.)
The takeaway: “Vanguard is not, and has never been, a nonprofit, though much of the language around ‘operating at cost’ does at times make it sound as though they are,” Wiener said. Vanguard “is exceedingly profitable, and hence has the ability to pay its captains millions of dollars every year." Just two funds, 500 Index and Total Stock Market Index, generated about $600 million in fees alone last year, estimated Wiener’s colleague Jeff DeMaso.
Vanguard spokesperson Alyssa Thornton declined to comment on the profit-sharing details. “Consistent with years prior, we don’t discuss the specifics of our compensation program, except to say that Partnership enables our crew to celebrate and share in the success and value they’ve helped to achieve on behalf of Vanguard investors.”
In fact, the Vanguard Group is vacuuming up record profits, causing their "partnership" dividends (i.e., profits paid to Vanguard executives and other employees) to rise at a rate exponentially higher than the S&P 500 did over the same period of time. From the Philadelphia Inquirer:

Image

Now if us "client-owners" want to know exactly how much profit the Vanguard Group makes each year and how much of that goes to decrease expense ratios vs. to Vanguard executives and select employees via partnership dividends, sorry. Vanguard refuses to disclose that information, even to the "client-owners". Schwab, on the other hand, is completely transparent, you can look all of that up in their annual report, online for the world to see.

As far as conflict of interest, Vanguard advisors most certainly have conflicts of interest. The most obvious of these is that they will ONLY put you in Vanguard proprietary funds even when a better alternative may exist. Just try to create a Vanguard PAS portfolio consisting of ETF funds from Schwab, Fidelity, Blackrock or anyone else. It won't happen. Also consider Vanguard's aggressive marketing of their AUM advisor service to investors, regardless of whether such an advisory service is in the client's best interest.

And unfortunately, IMO, this is not the same Vanguard culture that Jack Bogle created. If you want evidence of that, just look at the chart above to see what happened to partnership dividends since 2009, the year Jack was sent packing by Vanguard. While Vanguard holds itself out as the "knight in shining armor" for the average investor, I'm afraid that their suit of armor has become rather tarnished. '

But glad you are satisfied there! Each investor should choose for themselves where to entrust their investments. :beer
And all it takes is a conversation that starts with “Vanguard? Oh wow you are still investing there. It isn’t the same Vanguard that it was back when your husband/dad was alive. I doubt very much he’d still be using them if he was alive. Let me tell you about how my firm is better.”
“I didn’t want my sailboat to be in the driveway when I died.” Nomadland
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Paid compensation is not "profit". Isn't this basic accounting? Profit is what is left over for the owners. There aren't owners except the fund holders. I would approach the argument differently and say you wish more of what is currently paid out as compensation would be channeled back toward reduction in underlying cost. I wouldn't frame it as Vanguard being massively profitable in the conventional sense.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by William Million »

Vanguard is awful. Only reason to stay are bond funds - lowest cost. Otherwise, no reason to deal with that company.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by sport »

William Million wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:17 pm Vanguard is awful. Only reason to stay are bond funds - lowest cost. Otherwise, no reason to deal with that company.
My first mutual fund was a Fidelity fund. It had a front-end load of 8.75%. I guess that is a better arrangement.
Every time I would send Fidelity $100, they would credit my account with $91.25.
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by ruralavalon »

William Million wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:17 pm Vanguard is awful. Only reason to stay are bond funds - lowest cost. Otherwise, no reason to deal with that company.
Morningstar (1/20/2020) "The Best Fund Companies and Their Ratings", link. Vanguard is one of just five fund companies rated "high".

J.D.Power (4/27/2021), press release "2021 U.S. Self-Directed Investor Satisfaction Study" link. Vanguard is highest rated by investors for customer satisfaction.
Last edited by ruralavalon on Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:59 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

sport wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:42 pm
William Million wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:17 pm Vanguard is awful. Only reason to stay are bond funds - lowest cost. Otherwise, no reason to deal with that company.
My first mutual fund was a Fidelity fund. It had a front-end load of 8.75%. I guess that is a better arrangement.
Every time I would send Fidelity $100, they would credit my account with $91.25.
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nalor511
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Re: Transferring accounts from Vanguard to Schwab - should I stay or should I go?

Post by nalor511 »

ruralavalon wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:54 pm
William Million wrote: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:17 pm Vanguard is awful. Only reason to stay are bond funds - lowest cost. Otherwise, no reason to deal with that company.
Morningstar (1/20/2020) "The Best Fund Companies and Their Ratings", link. Vanguard is one of just five fund companies rated "high".

J.D.Power (4/27/2021), press release "2021 U.S. Self-Directed Investor Satisfaction Study" link. Vanguard is highest rated by investors for customer satisfaction.
You can use Vanguard as a fund company without using them as your Brokerage
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