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Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:24 pm
by investor.saver1
I've come to a fork in the road with respect to managing my investment portfolio. DW isn't interested at all in managing the portfolio and I'm tiring of it. Even the 3-fund portfolio is too much work. I can get someone to manage it for me (for a cost) or I can establish a passive portfolio that takes very little energy to manage.

My current thought is to liquidate our current investments (all index ETFs) in our IRAs and gradually and prudently liquidate (minimizing Capital gains) our after-tax brokerage account and use the proceeds to buy two target funds: SWYAX (Schwab 2010 Index Target Fund [Exp Ratio .08%]) and VTINX (Vanguard Target Retirement Income Fund [Exp Ratio .12%]). I plan to invest 50% of our retirement investment portfolio in each. As our CDs mature, we'll simply increase our positions in the two funds. And yes, we'll continue will maintain a substantial emergency fund at a local financial institution.

I can hear the gasps....I know there are better places for the money and better tactics to attain a passive portfolio but this simple low cost solution fits us well.

Why these funds? They are funds of low cost diversified index funds with allocations similar to our current portfolio with the lowest expense ratios on the planet. The funds were designed by way smarter people than me and I'd expect them to perform just fine with the level of risk appropriate for DW and myself. I can buy them and sell them at no cost at Schwab (I've got a special deal at Schwab to buy Vanguard funds for free). No rebalancing is required meeting my main objective of simplicity and being nearly effort free. My DW can manage easily if I should move on the heaven. The return will easily be sufficient to supplement our spending needs.

I'd welcome your learned thoughts. If this plan is folly I'd like to know before I implement it. Thanks in advance!

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:30 pm
by Normchad
investor.saver1 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:24 pm I've come to a fork in the road with respect to managing my investment portfolio. DW isn't interested at all in managing the portfolio and I'm tiring of it. Even the 3-fund portfolio is too much work. I can get someone to manage it for me (for a cost) or I can establish a passive portfolio that takes very little energy to manage.

My current thought is to liquidate our current investments (all index ETFs) in our IRAs and gradually and prudently liquidate (minimizing Capital gains) our after-tax brokerage account and use the proceeds to buy two target funds: SWYAX (Schwab 2010 Index Target Fund [Exp Ratio .08%]) and VTINX (Vanguard Target Retirement Income Fund [Exp Ratio .12%]). I plan to invest 50% of our retirement investment portfolio in each. As our CDs mature, we'll simply increase our positions in the two funds. And yes, we'll continue will maintain a substantial emergency fund at a local financial institution.

I can hear the gasps....I know there are better places for the money and better tactics to attain a passive portfolio but this simple low cost solution fits us well.

Why these funds? They are funds of low cost diversified index funds with allocations similar to our current portfolio with the lowest expense ratios on the planet. The funds were designed by way smarter people than me and I'd expect them to perform just fine with the level of risk appropriate for DW and myself. I can buy them and sell them at no cost at Schwab (I've got a special deal at Schwab to buy Vanguard funds for free). No rebalancing is required meeting my main objective of simplicity and being nearly effort free. My DW can manage easily if I should move on the heaven. The return will easily be sufficient to supplement our spending needs.

I'd welcome your learned thoughts. If this plan is folly I'd like to know before I implement it. Thanks in advance!
I’m not gasping...... I like simplicity......

When I’m all done, I might be 100% in a single fund, VSMGX, Lifestrategy Moderate Growth.

There are lots of appealing one fund solutions out there. Honestly, I’d also be okay with 100% Vanguard Wellington or 100% Vanguard Balanced Index.

So your idea, of simplifying greatly is a good one.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:34 pm
by 000
I'm not gasping.

Two questions:
1. Would it be simpler to not sell anything in taxable and just redirect dividends to the new fund?
2. Have you considered tax-managed balanced or balanced index in taxable? Foreign tax credit is not available for the foreign holdings in the balanced funds you mentioned (not enough foreign source income), which is another drag.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:09 pm
by investor.saver1
000 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:34 pm I'm not gasping.

Two questions:
1. Would it be simpler to not sell anything in taxable and just redirect dividends to the new fund?

I hadn’t considered doing this, but yes it would be simpler and more tax efficient with respect to the equity funds. I’ll study this.

2. Have you considered tax-managed balanced or balanced index in taxable? Foreign tax credit is not available for the foreign holdings in the balanced funds you mentioned (not enough foreign source income), which is another drag.
Another great suggestion which I’ll study.

Thanks!!!

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:17 pm
by livesoft
We own a Fidelity Freedom Index fund and a Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Growth fund, so your plan sounds great to me.

The main issue is taxes. You may wish to simply stop managing your taxable account and let it carry on as if you were dead.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:51 pm
by David Jay
I am putting all accounts (one tIRA and two Roth) into a LifeStrategy fund because my spouse can continue to hold that “forever”.

So no “gasp” from me.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:55 pm
by chassis
investor.saver1 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:24 pm I've come to a fork in the road with respect to managing my investment portfolio. DW isn't interested at all in managing the portfolio and I'm tiring of it. Even the 3-fund portfolio is too much work. I can get someone to manage it for me (for a cost) or I can establish a passive portfolio that takes very little energy to manage.

My current thought is to liquidate our current investments (all index ETFs) in our IRAs and gradually and prudently liquidate (minimizing Capital gains) our after-tax brokerage account and use the proceeds to buy two target funds: SWYAX (Schwab 2010 Index Target Fund [Exp Ratio .08%]) and VTINX (Vanguard Target Retirement Income Fund [Exp Ratio .12%]). I plan to invest 50% of our retirement investment portfolio in each. As our CDs mature, we'll simply increase our positions in the two funds. And yes, we'll continue will maintain a substantial emergency fund at a local financial institution.

I can hear the gasps....I know there are better places for the money and better tactics to attain a passive portfolio but this simple low cost solution fits us well.

Why these funds? They are funds of low cost diversified index funds with allocations similar to our current portfolio with the lowest expense ratios on the planet. The funds were designed by way smarter people than me and I'd expect them to perform just fine with the level of risk appropriate for DW and myself. I can buy them and sell them at no cost at Schwab (I've got a special deal at Schwab to buy Vanguard funds for free). No rebalancing is required meeting my main objective of simplicity and being nearly effort free. My DW can manage easily if I should move on the heaven. The return will easily be sufficient to supplement our spending needs.

I'd welcome your learned thoughts. If this plan is folly I'd like to know before I implement it. Thanks in advance!
@investor.saver1 Thanks for posting this, simplicity is a good thing. Some questions, if you care to share.

1. What is your age?
2. Are you retired, meaning do you receive an income for your time as an employee?
3. How many hours per day, week or month were you spending managing your portfolio when you decided it was too much work?

Thanks for anything you care to reply to.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:22 pm
by iamblessed
Why not one fund one of the Vanguard LifeStrategy funds?

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:25 pm
by investor.saver1
iamblessed wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:22 pm Why not one fund one of the Vanguard LifeStrategy funds?
Easy...LifeStrategy doesn’t hold TIPs which I consider an essential inflation hedge for a retired individual. I could add TIPs on my own but again I’m adding complexity and that’s what I’m getting away from.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:39 pm
by investor.saver1
chassis wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:55 pm
@investor.saver1 Thanks for posting this, simplicity is a good thing. Some questions, if you care to share.

1. What is your age?
2. Are you retired, meaning do you receive an income for your time as an employee?
3. How many hours per day, week or month were you spending managing your portfolio when you decided it was too much work?

Thanks for anything you care to reply to.
Early 70s. DW and I are retired. I retired at 62 and DW retired with pension in her late 50s. No pension for me. Social Security for both of us.
I’ve spent several hours a day since I retired managing our portfolio and looked at it as fun. But Now it has become a chore.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:25 pm
by tj
investor.saver1 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:39 pm
chassis wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:55 pm
@investor.saver1 Thanks for posting this, simplicity is a good thing. Some questions, if you care to share.

1. What is your age?
2. Are you retired, meaning do you receive an income for your time as an employee?
3. How many hours per day, week or month were you spending managing your portfolio when you decided it was too much work?

Thanks for anything you care to reply to.
Early 70s. DW and I are retired. I retired at 62 and DW retired with pension in her late 50s. No pension for me. Social Security for both of us.
I’ve spent several hours a day since I retired managing our portfolio and looked at it as fun. But Now it has become a chore.
Were you day trading stocks? How did the hours add up so much?

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:32 pm
by Brianmcg321
I like your plan.

The more I have learned over the years about investing the more I like the one fund approach. When I retire I will probably just put all our traditional IRAs in one of the life strategy funds or balanced index, and keep our Roths in VTSAX.

If we ever use our Roths I will change them accordingly.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:35 am
by jimkinny
Target Funds are a good choice. I would likely do better if I owned one.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:53 am
by celia
I think you need to think about the long-range plan. If you and DW were in a coma or had cognitive decline, who would you want to pay your bills and handle your financials? Do you already have a designated Durable Power of Attorney? I think a better idea is to finish your estate planning and then turn at least part of the work over to your designated person.

The benefit of doing this now instead of after you die, is that your designated person will have time to ask you questions and get to know your investment philosophy. DH and I both have parents who turned everything over to their kids to manage about age 90. The age doesn't matter so much, but when it becomes a "chore", your kids (or someone else) need to help you (and themselves) by making things simpler.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:03 am
by investor.saver1
tj wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 10:25 pm
investor.saver1 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:39 pm
chassis wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:55 pm
@investor.saver1 Thanks for posting this, simplicity is a good thing. Some questions, if you care to share.

1. What is your age?
2. Are you retired, meaning do you receive an income for your time as an employee?
3. How many hours per day, week or month were you spending managing your portfolio when you decided it was too much work?

Thanks for anything you care to reply to.
Early 70s. DW and I are retired. I retired at 62 and DW retired with pension in her late 50s. No pension for me. Social Security for both of us.
I’ve spent several hours a day since I retired managing our portfolio and looked at it as fun. But Now it has become a chore.
Were you day trading stocks? How did the hours add up so much?
I'm lumping all investment related activity together....reading/studying/researching blogs, websites, etc...into those hours. I was always looking for the best tweak to make to the portfolio. I've constructed a number of tracking/monitoring shreadsheets with dashboards to monitor the nuances of the portfolio. On and on it goes in terms of activity focused around the investments. In reality, little was accomplished in all those hours, weeks, years to improve our return. I have every confidence if I had made the move into target funds when I first retired, I'd be ahead of where I am today financially -- although I've done quite well. While I did trade a few stocks and options for a very brief time period, most of my energy went into tweaking the larger portfolio.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:05 am
by investor.saver1
jimkinny wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:35 am Target Funds are a good choice. I would likely do better if I owned one.
And have more time to enjoy life!

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:20 am
by investor.saver1
celia wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:53 am I think you need to think about the long-range plan. If you and DW were in a coma or had cognitive decline, who would you want to pay your bills and handle your financials? Do you already have a designated Durable Power of Attorney? I think a better idea is to finish your estate planning and then turn at least part of the work over to your designated person.

The benefit of doing this now instead of after you die, is that your designated person will have time to ask you questions and get to know your investment philosophy. DH and I both have parents who turned everything over to their kids to manage about age 90. The age doesn't matter so much, but when it becomes a "chore", your kids (or someone else) need to help you (and themselves) by making things simpler.
There's wisdom in what you've said Celia. We're not at that point yet. We've done estate planning and are prepared. For us, the joy of being in the minutia of portfolio management has faded. We just would rather do other things now. Things that bring more satisfaction in life and are memorable. Travel, walks in the woods, etc.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:23 am
by investor.saver1
livesoft wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:17 pm We own a Fidelity Freedom Index fund and a Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Growth fund, so your plan sounds great to me.

The main issue is taxes. You may wish to simply stop managing your taxable account and let it carry on as if you were dead.
I'll give this some thought livesoft. Doing nothing in the taxable account could indeed be the right solution.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 1:57 pm
by chassis
investor.saver1 wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:39 pm
chassis wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:55 pm
@investor.saver1 Thanks for posting this, simplicity is a good thing. Some questions, if you care to share.

1. What is your age?
2. Are you retired, meaning do you receive an income for your time as an employee?
3. How many hours per day, week or month were you spending managing your portfolio when you decided it was too much work?

Thanks for anything you care to reply to.
Early 70s. DW and I are retired. I retired at 62 and DW retired with pension in her late 50s. No pension for me. Social Security for both of us.
I’ve spent several hours a day since I retired managing our portfolio and looked at it as fun. But Now it has become a chore.
@investor.saver1 Thanks very much, I appreciate your insights.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:08 pm
by index245
I didn't gasp. I'm in my 40's and feel the same way! Very close to going "one fund" in all tax advantaged accounts. Lifestrategy, Balanced or Target Date (or combination).

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:52 pm
by Sage16
we are getting to the same place. We have been retired for 5 years and keep a very simple primarily 3 fund portfolio. But I find I have spent a lot of time this year in particular second guessing our stock/bond allocation with the market setting records and interest rates near zero. My wife has no interest in learning or managing our portfolio if for some reason I can't. After discussions with our Flagship Rep, we are looking at test driving PAS with her IRA account which is a portion of our portfolio. I want the ability to get advice across our portfolio not just what we give them under PAS and I don't want her IRA invested in a lifecycle look alike allocation with a higher management fee. When I look at the cost for PAS, I have come to realize her account today in a 3 fund portfolio can fluctuate more in a day than PAS costs for a year. In our case we are looking for more of a comprehensive relationship than just placing it in a lifecycle fund and willing to pay slightly more fees for advice and assistance across our financial spectrum. We will see how it goes and can always bail out if the value to us isn't there or if do see the value turn it all over to them. I have always felt no way am I paying AUM but coming to realize the value to us may now be there and we can focus more energy on our other interests. We shall see, your mileage will vary.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:12 pm
by MotoTrojan
If you are going to go through all this effort I would find a single fund that meets your objectives and really go for maximum simplicity.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:16 pm
by investor.saver1
Sage16 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:52 pm we are getting to the same place. We have been retired for 5 years and keep a very simple primarily 3 fund portfolio. But I find I have spent a lot of time this year in particular second guessing our stock/bond allocation with the market setting records and interest rates near zero. My wife has no interest in learning or managing our portfolio if for some reason I can't. After discussions with our Flagship Rep, we are looking at test driving PAS with her IRA account which is a portion of our portfolio. I want the ability to get advice across our portfolio not just what we give them under PAS and I don't want her IRA invested in a lifecycle look alike allocation with a higher management fee. When I look at the cost for PAS, I have come to realize her account today in a 3 fund portfolio can fluctuate more in a day than PAS costs for a year. In our case we are looking for more of a comprehensive relationship than just placing it in a lifecycle fund and willing to pay slightly more fees for advice and assistance across our financial spectrum. We will see how it goes and can always bail out if the value to us isn't there or if do see the value turn it all over to them. I have always felt no way am I paying AUM but coming to realize the value to us may now be there and we can focus more energy on our other interests. We shall see, your mileage will vary.
Seems as though the enjoyment of self managing dissipates after a time. Our investments are at Schwab and they too offer low-cost management. I weighed going with their PAS equivalent against the target retirement funds that I chose. It dawned on me that both Vanguard and Schwab invested a lot of thought in defining their allocations within their target fund lineup and most likely the allocations were reviewed at many levels by very senior people. That's when I concluded that paying out of pocket for advice from a fairly inexperienced "advisor" with a set of plug and play algorithms most likely would not bring me increased value over the target fund allocation. Everyone is different. Wishing you great success.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:43 pm
by TomatoTomahto
investor.saver1 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:23 am
livesoft wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:17 pm We own a Fidelity Freedom Index fund and a Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Growth fund, so your plan sounds great to me.

The main issue is taxes. You may wish to simply stop managing your taxable account and let it carry on as if you were dead.
I'll give this some thought livesoft. Doing nothing in the taxable account could indeed be the right solution.
+1. You spend hours per day doing things that you initially enjoyed but that are now chores.

I don’t do any of those things, and my portfolio chugs along just fine. I might spend an hour per month on my portfolio.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:48 pm
by bloom2708
Why 2 funds that do the exact same thing?

1 target Income OR 1 LifeStrategy fund. No reason to do 2 of the same thing.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:52 pm
by Normchad
TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:43 pm
investor.saver1 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:23 am
livesoft wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:17 pm We own a Fidelity Freedom Index fund and a Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Growth fund, so your plan sounds great to me.

The main issue is taxes. You may wish to simply stop managing your taxable account and let it carry on as if you were dead.
I'll give this some thought livesoft. Doing nothing in the taxable account could indeed be the right solution.
+1. You spend hours per day doing things that you initially enjoyed but that are now chores.

I don’t do any of those things, and my portfolio chugs along just fine. I might spend an hour per month on my portfolio.
I estimate I spend less than two hours per year on my portfolio.
I spend less than 3 hours a year doing my taxes.
I do spend about an hour a day on this site, which is time very well spent.

So all in all, I spend about an hour a day on finance stuff.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:01 pm
by investor.saver1
Normchad: I only wish I could be content to be so disconnected from my portfolio. Kudos to you. Hoping my simplistic approach allows me the same.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:04 pm
by investor.saver1
bloom2708 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:48 pm Why 2 funds that do the exact same thing?

1 target Income OR 1 LifeStrategy fund. No reason to do 2 of the same thing.
Only because I wanted a bit of diversification in the fund management. Why put all my eggs in one basket when I can use two. No other reason. I guess I’d ask why not.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:08 pm
by investor.saver1
bloom2708 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:48 pm Why 2 funds that do the exact same thing?

1 target Income OR 1 LifeStrategy fund. No reason to do 2 of the same thing.
Diversity of management is the reason. Spreading management risk. Yes, I realize it’s negligible.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:25 pm
by 1210sda
investor.saver1 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:04 pm
bloom2708 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:48 pm Why 2 funds that do the exact same thing?

1 target Income OR 1 LifeStrategy fund. No reason to do 2 of the same thing.
Only because I wanted a bit of diversification in the fund management. Why put all my eggs in one basket when I can use two. No other reason. I guess I’d ask why not.
I'm confused....What's to be managed, aren't they're index funds!

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:31 pm
by Explorer
I would prefer a combination of an active and a passive fund such as Wellesley and Vanguard Target Retirement, In fact at the moment, these 2 are my largest holdings... I need to come up with a timeline to replace the rest with these 2 funds.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:33 pm
by marcwd
livesoft wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:17 pm We own a Fidelity Freedom Index fund and a Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Growth fund, so your plan sounds great to me.

The main issue is taxes. You may wish to simply stop managing your taxable account and let it carry on as if you were dead.
Speaking of taxes, how do those two fund-of-funds fit into your strategy for tax loss harvesting?

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:51 pm
by chrisam314
VSMGX and let it ride.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:04 pm
by iamblessed
chrisam314 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:51 pm VSMGX and let it ride.
+1

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:09 pm
by livesoft
marcwd wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:33 pm
livesoft wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:17 pm We own a Fidelity Freedom Index fund and a Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Growth fund, so your plan sounds great to me.

The main issue is taxes. You may wish to simply stop managing your taxable account and let it carry on as if you were dead.
Speaking of taxes, how do those two fund-of-funds fit into your strategy for tax loss harvesting?
Those two funds are in inherited IRAs and don't have any effect on the TLH that we do in our taxable accounts that hold things like VTI, VEU, and VEA. OK, our taxable accounts also hold some other equity funds/ETFs last purchased in 2009 that are not going to be tax-loss harvested unless something really really really really bad happens in the stock market. I want to also make it clear that since we are no longer contributing to our taxable account in retirement, we rarely have any reason to tax-loss harvest because no positions nor lots have any loss. In other words, our taxable accounts carry on by themselves as if we were dead.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:14 pm
by LilyFleur
About two years ago, I thought it would be a brilliant, streamlined move to put a lot of money in a balanced index fund in my 401k. It drove me crazy. I like to be able to see the moving parts and what they are doing. Now I have the money in a bond index fund, an S&P 500 fund and a stable value fund. I can look at it every day or every year. I just cannot make myself give up the option of taking money to pay my bills out of the bond fund in a year that equities are down, and taking money out of equities when they are doing quite well.

Have you considered having a total bond index fund at one institution, and some sort of index stock fund at the other institution? No hands-on management would be required. You could look at it if you wanted, or not look at it.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:22 pm
by Rowan Oak
David Jay wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:51 pm I am putting all accounts (one tIRA and two Roth) into a LifeStrategy fund because my spouse can continue to hold that “forever”.

So no “gasp” from me.
I've done the same for all IRAs, but our taxable account remains a The Three-Fund Portfolio for tax loss harvesting purposes.

At some point even our taxable account will be moved to one of the Vanguard LifeStrategy Funds, because this will be easier for my spouse to manage when I'm gone or no longer able to manage the more complicated Three-Fund Portfolio.

Target Funds

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:35 pm
by Taylor Larimore
I can hear the gasps....I know there are better places for the money and better tactics to attain a passive portfolio but this simple low cost solution fits us well.
investor.saver1:

You will get no "gasps" from me. I think a low-cost target fund, designed by experts, and with the appropriate stock/bond allocation, is an excellent choice for many investors.

For reassurance, please read my "Simplicity" link below.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "Target-date funds have proved to be the most powerful fund-industry-changing concept since the money market mutual fund and the index mutual fund."

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:55 pm
by SimplicityNow
TomatoTomahto wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:43 pm
investor.saver1 wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:23 am
livesoft wrote: Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:17 pm We own a Fidelity Freedom Index fund and a Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Growth fund, so your plan sounds great to me.

The main issue is taxes. You may wish to simply stop managing your taxable account and let it carry on as if you were dead.
I'll give this some thought livesoft. Doing nothing in the taxable account could indeed be the right solution.
+1. You spend hours per day doing things that you initially enjoyed but that are now chores.

I don’t do any of those things, and my portfolio chugs along just fine. I might spend an hour per month on my portfolio.
Same here. My portfolio is much more complicated due to my wife's numerous employers over the years.
I spend about 2 hours a month bringing our spreadsheet up to date. I could automate it and it could take 5 mins but I like the mental exercise.

Eventually I may move most of it to a lifecycle fund as my wife has no interest in managing it.

Re: Target Funds

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 8:57 pm
by investor.saver1
Taylor Larimore wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:35 pm
I can hear the gasps....I know there are better places for the money and better tactics to attain a passive portfolio but this simple low cost solution fits us well.
investor.saver1:

You will get no "gasps" from me. I think a low-cost target fund, designed by experts, and with the appropriate stock/bond allocation, is an excellent choice for many investors.

For reassurance, please read my "Simplicity" link below.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "Target-date funds have proved to be the most powerful fund-industry-changing concept since the money market mutual fund and the index mutual fund."
Thank you Taylor for reassuring me. I’ve been on this learning journey for a long time and have benefited greatly from your wisdom here on the blog. I’ve been chasing the illusion of the ideal portfolio for a very long time. Now the race is finally over and it feels very good! Time for DW and me to take a walk and enjoy life a bit more.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:05 pm
by 1789
VBIAX (60/40) is another great choice for one fund option.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2020 10:31 pm
by burritoLover
Target date funds in 401k and taxable here. Automatically rebalances. Automatically increases bond allocation as the years tick by. Well diversified. I just plow money into it. Market crash? Market up? - don’t care - don’t have to do anything except continue to buy.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:40 am
by bigskyguy
Many great ideas and advice here. But while it is indeed important to consider simplifying where you keep your assets, don’t stop there. Consider this step one in the simplifying or clarifying algorithm.
1 - simplify your withdrawal portfolio
2 - develop a clear and easily administered withdrawal algorithm. I have a written document that details how much to withdraw, where and when to withdraw, and where to have the funds that have been withdrawn for the purposes of annual expenditures. It goes year by year, starting in 2019 and continuing to 2049, and provides guidance to my wife as to how I presently would access our retirement funds.
3 - in parallel with the withdrawal document, I have written an expenditure document that derails year by year our expenditures, based upon our expenditures now. I realize it is impossible to predict precisely what our expenses will be 10-20 years down the road, but at least I can provide a base understanding of what our present lifestyle costs and use that as the best template for our future expenditures.
4 - finally, realize that at some point neither you nor your life partner will be around. Providing specific guidance to your heirs and your estate’s executor as to how you two wish to have your estate dealt with when you both are gone is similarly important. It is, after all, your legacy in so many ways, and your final opportunity to leave your mark.
What I’m really trying to get at is that your question is only step one. Don’t stop there.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:52 am
by Call_Me_Op
I have my mom in a single Lifestrategy fund. It's perfect for her. All she does is receive an annual RMD check. That's it.

Re: Target Funds

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 8:00 am
by Wiggums
Taylor Larimore wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:35 pm
I can hear the gasps....I know there are better places for the money and better tactics to attain a passive portfolio but this simple low cost solution fits us well.
investor.saver1:

You will get no "gasps" from me. I think a low-cost target fund, designed by experts, and with the appropriate stock/bond allocation, is an excellent choice for many investors.

For reassurance, please read my "Simplicity" link below.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "Target-date funds have proved to be the most powerful fund-industry-changing concept since the money market mutual fund and the index mutual fund."
+1

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:23 am
by investor.saver1
LilyFleur wrote: Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:14 pm About two years ago, I thought it would be a brilliant, streamlined move to put a lot of money in a balanced index fund in my 401k. It drove me crazy. I like to be able to see the moving parts and what they are doing. Now I have the money in a bond index fund, an S&P 500 fund and a stable value fund. I can look at it every day or every year. I just cannot make myself give up the option of taking money to pay my bills out of the bond fund in a year that equities are down, and taking money out of equities when they are doing quite well.

Have you considered having a total bond index fund at one institution, and some sort of index stock fund at the other institution? No hands-on management would be required. You could look at it if you wanted, or not look at it.
LilyFleur...thank you for posting! Your investing path is exactly the one I was on. It has taken me a long time to realize my time and energies are much better spent on enjoying life than on micromanaging my investments myself. Have you considered the fact that when expert fund managers rebalance assets within a fund they are selling high and buying low...and they do it with great disciple. After years of self managing I came to the conclusion that I'm not as sophisticated nor as learned as the professionals. My time is worth way more to me invested in things I enjoy. Monitoring my investments was fun for a while, but not so much fun now. Don't get me wrong...I'm still planning to keep an eye on things occasionally, but it's no longer is my daily priority.

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:27 am
by investor.saver1
bigskyguy wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:40 am Many great ideas and advice here. But while it is indeed important to consider simplifying where you keep your assets, don’t stop there. Consider this step one in the simplifying or clarifying algorithm.
1 - simplify your withdrawal portfolio
2 - develop a clear and easily administered withdrawal algorithm. I have a written document that details how much to withdraw, where and when to withdraw, and where to have the funds that have been withdrawn for the purposes of annual expenditures. It goes year by year, starting in 2019 and continuing to 2049, and provides guidance to my wife as to how I presently would access our retirement funds.
3 - in parallel with the withdrawal document, I have written an expenditure document that derails year by year our expenditures, based upon our expenditures now. I realize it is impossible to predict precisely what our expenses will be 10-20 years down the road, but at least I can provide a base understanding of what our present lifestyle costs and use that as the best template for our future expenditures.
4 - finally, realize that at some point neither you nor your life partner will be around. Providing specific guidance to your heirs and your estate’s executor as to how you two wish to have your estate dealt with when you both are gone is similarly important. It is, after all, your legacy in so many ways, and your final opportunity to leave your mark.
What I’m really trying to get at is that your question is only step one. Don’t stop there.
Thanks for your wisdom here bigskyguy! Right you are that I've just accomplished step one of a multistep process. I shall take your recommendations and implement them!

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:52 am
by Wiggums
Good luck to you. You are on the right track...

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:59 am
by iamblessed

Re: Throwing In The Towel on Portfolio Management

Posted: Thu Sep 17, 2020 12:49 pm
by investor.saver1
iamblessed wrote: Thu Sep 17, 2020 11:59 am Read this viewtopic.php?t=287967
Thank you for the link iamblessed.