When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

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judith
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When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by judith »

As the markets keep rising, when is it best to take profits? I know timing the market is impossible so how/what criteria or protocol do seasoned investors use? Given the current situation, when is it best to take profits and what should one do with the profits. Thank you.
Juice3
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by Juice3 »

Search for rebalancing.

We do not really talk about "profits" here but rather "returns".

We also mostly talk about two hypothetical phases, accumulation and retirement (drawing down). There is often a focus on the transition from one to the other.
Last edited by Juice3 on Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Sandtrap
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by Sandtrap »

DW and I take only what we need as long as it's below a relatively sustainable 3% and the rest get's reinvested.

This is what we've done for the many decades we were in business. We only took what we needed to live on, the rest was reinvested. (whether profits or returns, etc)
Keep your money working for you as you sleep.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

judith wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:50 am As the markets keep rising, when is it best to take profits? I know timing the market is impossible so how/what criteria or protocol do seasoned investors use? Given the current situation, when is it best to take profits and what should one do with the profits. Thank you.
you mean markets "have risen" not "keep rising", right?

we don't know what "will" happen, only what "has" happened.

ideally you would have a plan. do you? if not, read more:
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investm ... _statement

selling usually happens when either:
1. you need money
2. you have an RMD to take
3. it's time to rebalance.
4. there's a better place for your investment.

can't give you more information because you haven't given us more information. you don't say if these profits are in a retirement account or taxable account. what's your tax bracket? and so on. see the difference? tax implications.

please repost according to the following so you don't get garbage out after putting garbage in:
viewtopic.php?t=6212
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
Johm221122
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by Johm221122 »

Take profits? Are you a long-term investor who wants compounding?
Your portfolio is supposed to match your goals and risk tolerance. We don't take profits but rebalance back to our desired asset allocation. Investing is a long-term adventure but you can control risk by rebalancing occasionally back to your plan(asset allocation).
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whodidntante
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by whodidntante »

Most of my net worth is in equities that I do not sell, other than for tax loss harvesting. But sometimes I'll made a short term trade for what I perceive as a good risk. For example, when volatility spiked in March, I sold puts because the premiums were temporarily large. I had a big chunk of cash coming to me in April, so I was really signing up to buy on margin for a short period if the market continued to freefall, which would have been fine with me. The puts expired worthless (also fine with me) and I ended up buying equities when the cash showed up while a lot of people here were talking about making their emergency funds larger. I wonder if they are happy with their decision on that.
magicrat
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by magicrat »

judith wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:50 am As the markets keep rising, when is it best to take profits? I know timing the market is impossible so how/what criteria or protocol do seasoned investors use? Given the current situation, when is it best to take profits and what should one do with the profits. Thank you.
If you know market timing is impossible, then why are you asking for criteria and protocols to market time?
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backofbeyond
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by backofbeyond »

I seldom take profits. I do sell losers when they hit 20% but these are small holdings. I did sell my Chinese stocks a few months back, over $100k. While I think they have a VERY bright future, the American political parties (on both side) seem to be anti-Chinese, so I plugged those proceeds back into Amazon, Apple, Microsoft and Google. And I've been HIGHLY awarded (so far). I do speculate every once in awhile, like I bought $300 of Hertz and sold it for $1200 before the bottom fell out. I also have 1 share of Tesla that I bought for under $300 and now it's $2000...but I doubt I will sell it, I enjoy the roller coaster ride.

Oh and every Dec, I do do some tax harvesting on losers. But the majority of my selling will begin in 7 years when I retire and start revolving my traditional IRA into a Roth IRA.
The question isn't at what age I want to retire, it is at what income. - George Foreman
UpperNwGuy
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

I don't take profits. I'm invested for the long term. Why do you want to take profits?
kabob
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by kabob »

One thing i do frequently(in TaxDeferedAccts) : when markets hit a new high (like this week), is sell/take the profits(to cash/dry power) and return to the original allocation/principle amt - and immediately place a Limit Buy order for the same stock at a significantly lower price...
As they say: Buy Low, Sell Hi - Selling/TakingProfits at market hi's and planting seeds for buyin lower works sometimes works. not always but givin it a shot sometimes gets lucky (and one's then made that Same Money Twice!)
If not Dry Power is Always good!
( Am Retired, on a perpetual Growth and Income/LossAdvoidence plan - And its Workin Well!)
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

I sell when I need $$$ for expenses, to rebalance, and to reduce a holding of an individual stock.

If the $$$ aren't leaving my account, like in the case of rebalancing, and sometimes when I sell some individual stock, then I reinvest in the asset that is lower % than my AA, or invest more in an individual stock I already hold. Though, so far as rebalancing, I'm not a fanatic about the activity.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by retiredjg »

judith wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:50 am As the markets keep rising, when is it best to take profits? I know timing the market is impossible so how/what criteria or protocol do seasoned investors use? Given the current situation, when is it best to take profits and what should one do with the profits. Thank you.
The "when do you take profits" question does not really apply to they type of investing that is suggested here. That is why you are getting the answers you are getting. But we need to consider your question in light of your portfolio and how it is currently invested.

From your previous post, it appears you own mostly (all?) individual stocks. It is not clear what kind of accounts (401k, IRA, Roth IRA, taxable) you have.

Your portfolio might need some changes - especially if you are invested too aggressively for retirement - and that would almost certainly include selling stuff. And right now, selling stuff would probably be "taking profits".

My guess is that you need to add some fixed income assets (bonds, cash, CDs, etc) to your current portfolio. But that is nothing more than a guess.

Are you interested in showing us your financial situation to get more help? If yes, see the link at the bottom of this message for the best way to present your information to get the best help.
runner3081
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by runner3081 »

Haven't taken a single profit in nearly 20 years of investing.
Outer Marker
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by Outer Marker »

“Our favorite holding period is forever.”

- Warren Buffett
retired@50
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by retired@50 »

judith wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:50 am As the markets keep rising, when is it best to take profits? I know timing the market is impossible so how/what criteria or protocol do seasoned investors use? Given the current situation, when is it best to take profits and what should one do with the profits. Thank you.
I take profits when I need the money to live on.

In other words, I occasionally sell off teeny, tiny, pieces of my portfolio when I need to pay for my living expenses. If I were still working this wouldn't be necessary. How about you?

Regards,
This is one person's opinion. Nothing more.
sailaway
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by sailaway »

I rebalance twice a year, which will move stock gains into the relative stability of bonds.

We sell stocks when we need the money. So far, we have been lucky that stocks are at their recent highs when we do so, but if they weren't, we would rebalance.
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by humblecoder »

judith wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:50 am As the markets keep rising, when is it best to take profits? I know timing the market is impossible so how/what criteria or protocol do seasoned investors use? Given the current situation, when is it best to take profits and what should one do with the profits. Thank you.
Looks like you are taking a lot of crap from some of the "seasoned investors" on here. I'll try to answer your question in a more educational sort of way on the assumption that you are still learning.

I have a set asset allocation for my investments, which is around 75% equities and 25% bonds. If, say, equities, rises faster than bonds, then I might end up with an asset allocation that has a higher equity percentage than I would like. For this example, let's say that equities have gone up such that my current asset allocation is 80/20. When it gets to more than a 5% difference from my ideal allocation, I'll do what's called "rebalancing". Essentially, I will sell the asset that has appreciated (in this case the equities) and then put the proceeds into the asset that hasn't appreciated (in this case the bonds). This is essentially how I "take the profits" as you call it.

While I use the 5% rule, many others use different criteria (10% rule, rebalance every X months regardless of the percentage difference, etc), but all these rules follow the same principle. If your asset allocation is out of whack because one asset has gone up more than another, then you rebalance.

Hope this answers your question.
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RootSki
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by RootSki »

Never ever pay short term capital gain taxes on your “profits”.
GMT-8
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by GMT-8 »

We are retired and live mostly off my wife's pension and my small side gigs.

I sell 2-3 times a year when I feel "it's time" -- either the shares are high, or I know that there's an impending deadline, like Dec 31.
As mentioned by others, the funds are often used to rebalance our portfolio. We also sell or gift shares to charity, or sell to buy a car.

I'm trying to whittle down my IRA before I reach the mandatory RMD years...

GMT
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by bertilak »

judith wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:50 am As the markets keep rising, when is it best to take profits? I know timing the market is impossible so how/what criteria or protocol do seasoned investors use? Given the current situation, when is it best to take profits and what should one do with the profits. Thank you.
I take profits when I need them and then do with them what was needed.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
ColoRetiredGirl
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by ColoRetiredGirl »

humblecoder wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:15 am
judith wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:50 am As the markets keep rising, when is it best to take profits? I know timing the market is impossible so how/what criteria or protocol do seasoned investors use? Given the current situation, when is it best to take profits and what should one do with the profits. Thank you.
Looks like you are taking a lot of crap from some of the "seasoned investors" on here. I'll try to answer your question in a more educational sort of way on the assumption that you are still learning.

I have a set asset allocation for my investments, which is around 75% equities and 25% bonds. If, say, equities, rises faster than bonds, then I might end up with an asset allocation that has a higher equity percentage than I would like. For this example, let's say that equities have gone up such that my current asset allocation is 80/20. When it gets to more than a 5% difference from my ideal allocation, I'll do what's called "rebalancing". Essentially, I will sell the asset that has appreciated (in this case the equities) and then put the proceeds into the asset that hasn't appreciated (in this case the bonds). This is essentially how I "take the profits" as you call it.

While I use the 5% rule, many others use different criteria (10% rule, rebalance every X months regardless of the percentage difference, etc), but all these rules follow the same principle. If your asset allocation is out of whack because one asset has gone up more than another, then you rebalance.

Hope this answers your question.
Thank you for your response. I also had the same question as the OP. For clarification, I have a lot of “returns/profits” in corporate bonds but remain within my total bond allocation. It sounds like I should just rebalance into another, less risky, bond fund. Correct?
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by ruralavalon »

Welcome to the forum :) .

judith wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:50 am As the markets keep rising, when is it best to take profits? I know timing the market is impossible so how/what criteria or protocol do seasoned investors use? Given the current situation, when is it best to take profits and what should one do with the profits. Thank you.
.
We are age 74, retired, with no pension or annuity.

Our desired asset allocation is 50/50. We exchange from stocks to bonds inside a tax-advantaged account when stocks have risen to become more than 55% of our portfolio.

We withdraw money from our portfolio when we need to have money to cover expenses.

If you want some investing ideas please post all the necessary details like this: "Asking Portfolio Questions" .
Last edited by ruralavalon on Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by humblecoder »

ColoRetiredGirl wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:41 am Thank you for your response. I also had the same question as the OP. For clarification, I have a lot of “returns/profits” in corporate bonds but remain within my total bond allocation. It sounds like I should just rebalance into another, less risky, bond fund. Correct?
You would rebalance into whatever asset category/ies is/are below your target allocation.
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by tesuzuki2002 »

RootSki wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:21 am Never ever pay short term capital gain taxes on your “profits”.
I used to stick to that rule, but I have created an exception to it.

When I have a gain of more than 100% in a less than 6 month period, I’ll accept the tax hit and take the gains.

I purchased several best down stocks in March and Most have gains between 3-400%. They are all on my sell list at markets are reaching all time highs in some areas..

I’ll dump some back into my indexes.... I’ll hold a little while seeking out opportunities
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by kabob »

tesuzuki2002 wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:24 am When I have a gain of more than 100% in a less than 6 month period, I’ll accept the tax hit and take the gains.
That's Quite Acceptable!!!
I also take significant and\or unexpected WindFalls (before they go away)
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by ruralavalon »

Are the stocks in question in tax-advantaged accounts? If in a taxable brokerage account, what is your tax bracket, both federal and state? How long have you held the stocks?

Do you know what other investments you want to switch to?

Without disclosing the details all you can get are shoot-from-the-hip ideas, or investing slogans.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by dogagility »

judith wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:50 am As the markets keep rising, when is it best to take profits? I know timing the market is impossible so how/what criteria or protocol do seasoned investors use? Given the current situation, when is it best to take profits and what should one do with the profits. Thank you.
I don't have "profits" in my portfolio, although the return has been substantial since 1994. My portfolio consists of a lump sum of money that I keep fully invested at all times according to my chosen asset allocation in order to reach my long-term retirement portfolio target amount.
All children spill milk. Learn to smile and wipe it up. -- A Farmer's Wife
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by BolderBoy »

Juice3 wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:52 amSearch for 'rebalancing'.
+1. This is the way BHs "take profits". They sell their winners and invest the proceeds in their losers. It is a form of selling high and at the same time buying low.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by dogagility »

kabob wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 7:59 am If not Dry Power is Always good!
Here's an opposing view on the usefulness of Dry Powder: https://actuaryonfire.com/dry-powder/
All children spill milk. Learn to smile and wipe it up. -- A Farmer's Wife
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by LilyFleur »

judith wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:50 am As the markets keep rising, when is it best to take profits? I know timing the market is impossible so how/what criteria or protocol do seasoned investors use? Given the current situation, when is it best to take profits and what should one do with the profits. Thank you.
Hi Judith,
Welcome to our forum. :happy
There is a lot of information about the Boglehead way to invest in the Wiki. I would encourage you to read the different articles; you will learn a lot.
Best wishes!
Kookaburra
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by Kookaburra »

Just buy international stocks. No profit, no problem.
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by pseudoiterative »

tesuzuki2002 wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:24 am I purchased several best down stocks in March and Most have gains between 3-400%. They are all on my sell list at markets are reaching all time highs in some areas..
It's hard to tell if this is a good decision or not by considering the price in isolation of a company's fundamental performance and outlook. If the share price shot up 4x because the market has new information that suggests the underlying performance and prospects of the business has made sustainable improvements, then it arguably makes more sense to hold, since the price reflects a permanent improvement in the company's economic success. If the share price increase appears due to the whims of mister market with no change in company fundamentals, or from an unusually good quarter that has no fundamental basis for being sustainable (e.g. a bunch of companies that trade bonds made unusually high profits from bond trading during the volatility in march) then it might make sense to sell and take profits if the current profitability of the company is unlikely to be sustained in future.

But all that said, it certainly isn't a bad position to find yourself in, no matter the decision to hold or sell or buy!
unbiased
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by unbiased »

"nothing wrong with taking a profit" a wise investor once said.

But you're correct that the second piece (what to do with them) is most important. I was simply too timid from consecutive market crashes in my early investor life (Tech Bubble + great recession) to let my "winners" ride, especially with individual equities. I was wrong.

For example, I kept selling shares of Visa year after year for the last 11 years. Great "cash" cow, but would have been worth so much more just letting it ride. Heck, maybe could have retired by now.

I instead kept putting my "profits" in cash over the years to hang on to my "winnings." This was foolish. Sure, I pocketed the gain, and kept reinvesting the principal. BUT, the result? Ended up with WAY too much cash and, ultimately, hurt my returns in the 09-20 bull market. Still made money like everyone -- but likely made a little less and my risk/reward for the ultimate returns was not as attractive as if I just put the money in Vanguard Balanced and forgot about it.

Deployed cash finally in March and have now wised up enough to send "gains" to lower risk/reward conservative allocation balanced funds that will at least keep me exposed to a lower level of market level returns.

At least I"m not beholden to "great ideas" I once had as a younger investor.
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by pkcrafter »

judith wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 6:50 am As the markets keep rising, when is it best to take profits? I know timing the market is impossible so how/what criteria or protocol do seasoned investors use? Given the current situation, when is it best to take profits and what should one do with the profits. Thank you.
Welcome, Judith.

You have made two posts which display thinking far different than the investing philosophy we recommend here. Our Boglehead philosophy--from John Bogle, the creator of Vanguard,--provides very low cost investing with above average returns. How did you happen to find Bogleheads?

If you want to stay and see what it's all about, start by posing your financial situation as suggested here:

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212

What shows up in your posts so far is partly a behavioral issue, so here's some information on that:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Behavioral_pitfalls

Finally, understanding what we are about:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.
tesuzuki2002
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by tesuzuki2002 »

kabob wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:01 am
tesuzuki2002 wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:24 am When I have a gain of more than 100% in a less than 6 month period, I’ll accept the tax hit and take the gains.
That's Quite Acceptable!!!
I also take significant and\or unexpected WindFalls (before they go away)
But I do dislike having to roll those into income... but a win is a win! Even it if has a tax bite.
tesuzuki2002
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Re: When do you take profits and what do you do with them?

Post by tesuzuki2002 »

pseudoiterative wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 1:22 pm
tesuzuki2002 wrote: Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:24 am I purchased several best down stocks in March and Most have gains between 3-400%. They are all on my sell list at markets are reaching all time highs in some areas..
It's hard to tell if this is a good decision or not by considering the price in isolation of a company's fundamental performance and outlook. If the share price shot up 4x because the market has new information that suggests the underlying performance and prospects of the business has made sustainable improvements, then it arguably makes more sense to hold, since the price reflects a permanent improvement in the company's economic success. If the share price increase appears due to the whims of mister market with no change in company fundamentals, or from an unusually good quarter that has no fundamental basis for being sustainable (e.g. a bunch of companies that trade bonds made unusually high profits from bond trading during the volatility in march) then it might make sense to sell and take profits if the current profitability of the company is unlikely to be sustained in future.

But all that said, it certainly isn't a bad position to find yourself in, no matter the decision to hold or sell or buy!
Agreed... if the market warrants a new valuation that has shot up due to new market demands then it might be acceptable to hold on it... But when very little has changed about the company or their products... I find the significant price increase unjustified... I've held on to a few in the past and got burned by the market as well. so I'm a bit more forgiving when I've made my profits... Sell and move on to something else.

awareness is key... but as the man himself has said over and over... nobody knows nothing....
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