Portfolio advice

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Topic Author
uthendo
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 7:01 am

Portfolio advice

Post by uthendo » Sat May 23, 2020 8:02 am

I'm pretty new to investing, or at least new to trying to maximize gains. Every time I read something it seems to make sense, but the more I read the more it becomes a conflicting mess. I'd like some advice on asset allocation. Currently I'm putting nearly everything I have control over into S&P500, but would like to tweak it some.

Emergency funds: $25,000

Debt:
No CC or car debt
Student loans: $130,000 @ 3% --low enough interest that I don't plan on paying it off early.
Mortgage: $330,000 @ 3.625%
Commercial property: $170,000@4.5%. Payments are $4100/mo. Prepayment penalty for 3 years so cannot pay it off early (otherwise I would). I rent to myself so it's not generating additional revenue.

Tax Filing Status: Married Filing Jointly

Tax Rate: 35% Federal, 10% State marginal rates

State of Residence: CA

Age: 45

Desired Asset allocation: 80-100% stocks / 0-20% bonds. I know this is much more aggressive than advisable, but I'm a "young" investor--I started investing 4 years ago, and have 15-20 years to go. The AA will naturally move towards bonds, as will be explained below.
Desired International allocation: ???% of stocks. I don't know enough to say whether I want to invest international or not. I'm open to suggestions.

Roth IRA: 5%
VTSAX: $38,000

529 Plan: $35,000 (2 young kids)

Vanguard taxable: 8%
VTIAX: $10,000
VTSAX: $43,000

401k: 50%
VBILX: $47,000
iSharesS&P500: $297,000

Cash Balance Plan: 17% (I have no control over AA... well, maybe I could but never tried) The target is a steady 5%.
DFA Emerging Markets Core Equity I $9,086.00
DFA International Core Equity Portofolio $17,409.89
DFA INTERNATIONAL VALUE $7,716.60
DFA International Small Company I $3,655.16
DFA Global Real Estate Securties $5,180.26
Dodge & Cox Income $43,653.83
DFA US Core Equity I $29,097.51
Vanguard Growth Index Adm $4,269.48
DFA Large Cap Value $8,997.64
DFA Short-Duration Real Return Instl $7,074.24
DFA US Targeted Value I $6,770.42
DFA Five Year Global Fixed Income $21,574.65

HSA: 7%
Cash: $7,000 (no reason for this.. just didn't buy a mutual fund yet)
FZROX: $7000
VTSAX: $35,000

Fidelity taxable: 13%
IJS: $19,000
Cash: $69,000 (again no reason...)

Outside of the cash balance plan, I'm mostly TSM/S&P500, with a very small portion in SCV, bonds, and international. The cash balance plan is targeting a consistent 5% return so it's weighted more towards bonds (I believe it's a 60/40 split). Over time the cash balance plan will outgrow the rest of the portfolio so the bond portion of my AA will grow.

Contributions

New annual Contributions
$130,000 cash balance plan
$38,000 401k contribution
$20,000 company match/profit share
$12,000 non-traditional IRA, converted to backdoor Roth
$7,000 HSA
$??? taxable: If I have anything I plan on investing. This year I do, which is why the Fidelity account has cash.

Available funds:

401k:
Vanguard Emerging Mkts Stock I (VEMAX)
Vanguard Energy Index Adm (VENAX)
iShares MSCI EAFE Intl Idx K (BTMKX)
DFA Inflation Protected Securi (DIPSX)
Vanguard Interm-Term Bond Inde (VBILX)
DFA Intermediate Govt Fixed In (DFIGX)
iShares S&P 500 Index K (WFSPX)
Vanguard Growth Index Adm (VIGAX)
Vanguard Value Index Adm (VVIAX)
iShares Russell Mid-Cap Index (BRMKX)
Vanguard Real Estate Index Adm (VGSLX)
Vanguard Small Cap Index Adm (VSMAX)
any Vanguard Target Retirement Funds
any Vanguard mutual fund (possibly ETF) is available.

Questions:
1. My current balance is small compared to what I want to grow it to, so I'm okay with a higher stock allocation. But should I be? On the one hand my current assets are relatively small so I can take risks, on the other hand my retirement horizon is not 40 years (it's more like 15) so I should be risk-averse.
2. Over time the cash balance plan will dominate the portfolio so the stock percentage will drop anyways. I was okay with S&P500, but wanted to diversify a bit. Is this worth doing, or should I stick to the S&P500? One of the AAs I was looking at was Merriman's 4 fund portfolio, which is why I bought some IJS.
3. Some of the funds in the cash balance plan have fairly high fees. I'm not sure, but I think I can request changes to the fund mix, including using Vanguard funds. I'm loathe to do this though, because a cash balance plan has a nasty feature... if the fund underperforms I have to increase my contribution to make up the difference. In that sense I'm more apt to leave it up to the pros than to fiddle with it myself. Still, if I could replace some of those higher fee funds with low-cost Vanguard funds...

Thank you.

theorist
Posts: 614
Joined: Sat Sep 28, 2019 11:39 am

Re: Portfolio advice

Post by theorist » Sat May 23, 2020 11:00 am

Hello:

At your age and in your situation, 80/20 seems like a reasonable aggressive allocation to me.

Why is so much going into the cash balance plan? DFA funds are excellent (as are the other firms they use like Vanguard and Dodge & Cox), but the overall composition is very complicated. It seems like given the amount you are currently investing, you could do very well for yourself by something simple like

— 50% in US total market or S&P 500
— 10% in small cap value (IJS, say)
— 20% in total international index
— 20% in bonds

This would just require four funds. I only included the mild small cap tilt because you expressed interest in IJS, and the international is at about 25% of your equities, which is apparently a place where you gain most of the diversification benefits according to studies.

With your saving rate you should be ok even with the complicated portfolio you hold, but this would be a lot simpler :-).

Topic Author
uthendo
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 7:01 am

Re: Portfolio advice

Post by uthendo » Sat May 23, 2020 1:07 pm

Thanks for the reply. A cash balance plan requires a set contribution amount annually, with no real option to raise or lower the amount. It's locked at 5% so on its own it isn't a great investment vehicle. However, contributions are tax deferred so it's highly beneficial.

There are sooo many allocations recommended, and each one makes such a solid case for itself. Depending on the time frame each one seems to be better. One guy I know told me to put it all in QQQ, and based on the last 10 years he'd be right.

I'm not married to the idea of SCV. Merriman made a compelling argument for SCV so I thought I might go that way. I guess it seems prudent to stick to broad index funds, VTSMX and VGTSX.

User avatar
ruralavalon
Posts: 18230
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:29 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Portfolio advice

Post by ruralavalon » Sat May 23, 2020 1:19 pm

Welcome to the forum :) .

Please consider adding the ticker symbol and expense ratio for each fund in the cash balance pension plan, and the expense ratio for each fund in the 401k plan. Sometimes the expense ratio charged in a work-based plan is different than the expense ratio charged the general public for the identical fund.

Are you charged a fee for use of the DFA funds or for a DFA advisor?

Why do you have two taxable brokerage accounts, one at Vanguard the other at Fidelity?

You can simply add this to your original post using the edit button (the pencil icon near the upper right corner of your post), it helps a lot if all of your information is in one place.

uthendo wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:07 pm
Thanks for the reply. A cash balance plan requires a set contribution amount annually, with no real option to raise or lower the amount. It's locked at 5% so on its own it isn't a great investment vehicle. However, contributions are tax deferred so it's highly beneficial.
Having both a 401k plan and a cash balance pension plan is very nice.

I think you picked the best 401k funds to use:
iShares S&P 500 Index Fund K (WFSPX); and
Vanguard Intermediate-Term Bond Index Fund (VBILX).



uthendo wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:07 pm
There are sooo many allocations recommended, and each one makes such a solid case for itself. Depending on the time frame each one seems to be better. One guy I know told me to put it all in QQQ, and based on the last 10 years he'd be right.

I'm not married to the idea of SCV. Merriman made a compelling argument for SCV so I thought I might go that way. I guess it seems prudent to stick to broad index funds, VTSMX and VGTSX.
If not fully dedicated to the idea of small-cap value investing, then just stick to broad market index funds for investing in U.S. stocks. Both Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX) and iShares S&P 500 Fund K (WFSPX) are good choices.

uthendo wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:02 am
Contributions

New annual Contributions
$130,000 cash balance plan
$38,000 401k contribution
$20,000 company match/profit share
$12,000 non-traditional IRA, converted to backdoor Roth
$7,000 HSA
$??? taxable: If I have anything I plan on investing. This year I do, which is why the Fidelity account has cash.
Very good.

When just starting establishing a high rate of contributions is the most important investing decision you can make.

uthendo wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:02 am
Age: 45

Desired Asset allocation: 80-100% stocks / 0-20% bonds. I know this is much more aggressive than advisable, but I'm a "young" investor--I started investing 4 years ago, and have 15-20 years to go. The AA will naturally move towards bonds, as will be explained below.
Desired International allocation: ???% of stocks. I don't know enough to say whether I want to invest international or not. I'm open to suggestions.
. . . . .
Outside of the cash balance plan, I'm mostly TSM/S&P500, with a very small portion in SCV, bonds, and international. The cash balance plan is targeting a consistent 5% return so it's weighted more towards bonds (I believe it's a 60/40 split). Over time the cash balance plan will outgrow the rest of the portfolio so the bond portion of my AA will grow.
At age 45, just starting out, and 17% already in the cash balance plan, in the rest of the portfolio I suggest about 20% in bonds or other fixed income investments (like CDs, savings accounts, money market fund). This is expected to substantially reduce portfolio volatility (risk), with only a relatively modest decrease in portfolio return. Graph, "An Efficient Frontier: the power of diversification". Please see:
1) Wiki article Bogleheads® investment philosophy, part 3 "Never bear too much or too little risk";
2) Wiki article, "Asset allocation"; and
3) Morningstar (8/20/2019), "The Best Diversifiers for Your Equity Portfolio".

I suggest around 20 - 30% of stocks in international stocks. Vanguard paper (March 2012), "Considerations for investing in non-U.S. equities". Historically, allocating 20% of an equity portfolio to non-U.S. stocks would have captured about 84% of the maximum possible diversification benefit, and allocating 30% of an equity portfolio to non-U.S. stocks would have captured about 99% of the maximum possible diversification benefit (p. 6). (You can find lots of debate here on international allocation, opinions ranging all the way from 00% to 50% of stocks in international stocks. If you want more viewpoints on international stocks please try the Google search box, upper right, this page).

Morningstar (11/14/2019), "Revisiting the Case for International". "The case for diversifying internationally isn’t as strong as it used to be, especially if you’re looking for significant risk reduction or consistently better returns. From a portfolio perspective, we typically recommend a healthy international weighting--roughly 25% of total assets--for investors with longer time horizons."

In the rest of the portfolio that works out to about 20% bonds, 20% international stocks, and 60% domestic stocks. Asset allocation is a very personal decision. You must decide on an allocation that is comfortable for you based on your own ability, willingness and need to take risk.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

lakpr
Posts: 5050
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:59 am

Re: Portfolio advice

Post by lakpr » Sat May 23, 2020 9:07 pm

What is your tax situation looking like? Are you taking standard deduction or itemizing?

I was going to suggest pay off your primary home mortgage. A 3% guaranteed return is not something you can get nowadays in the Total bond market. Treat the mortgage as a negative bond that it is. Rather than investing in total bond market index for 20% of your portfolio, take that 20% you intend to invest in TBM and payoff mortgage. Stay 100% in stocks with the remainder of the portfolio. 3% is a compelling return even if you are itemizing and getting tax benefit on mortgage interest.

Once you have the primary home mortgage paid off, you can start paying down your commercial mortgage for the same guaranteed 4.625% return. The prepayment penalty period might have passed by then.

Add more money into your kids 529 plans. At 35% bracket your kids are not going to get any financial aid for college. I think each of your kids needs about $120k in today's dollars to cover their education fully.

Topic Author
uthendo
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 7:01 am

Re: Portfolio advice

Post by uthendo » Thu May 28, 2020 7:52 am

ruralavalon wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:19 pm
Welcome to the forum :) .

Please consider adding the ticker symbol and expense ratio for each fund in the cash balance pension plan, and the expense ratio for each fund in the 401k plan. Sometimes the expense ratio charged in a work-based plan is different than the expense ratio charged the general public for the identical fund.

Are you charged a fee for use of the DFA funds or for a DFA advisor?

Why do you have two taxable brokerage accounts, one at Vanguard the other at Fidelity?

You can simply add this to your original post using the edit button (the pencil icon near the upper right corner of your post), it helps a lot if all of your information is in one place.

uthendo wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:07 pm
Thanks for the reply. A cash balance plan requires a set contribution amount annually, with no real option to raise or lower the amount. It's locked at 5% so on its own it isn't a great investment vehicle. However, contributions are tax deferred so it's highly beneficial.
Having both a 401k plan and a cash balance pension plan is very nice.

I think you picked the best 401k funds to use:
iShares S&P 500 Index Fund K (WFSPX); and
Vanguard Intermediate-Term Bond Index Fund (VBILX).



uthendo wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 1:07 pm
There are sooo many allocations recommended, and each one makes such a solid case for itself. Depending on the time frame each one seems to be better. One guy I know told me to put it all in QQQ, and based on the last 10 years he'd be right.

I'm not married to the idea of SCV. Merriman made a compelling argument for SCV so I thought I might go that way. I guess it seems prudent to stick to broad index funds, VTSMX and VGTSX.
If not fully dedicated to the idea of small-cap value investing, then just stick to broad market index funds for investing in U.S. stocks. Both Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX) and iShares S&P 500 Fund K (WFSPX) are good choices.

uthendo wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:02 am
Contributions

New annual Contributions
$130,000 cash balance plan
$38,000 401k contribution
$20,000 company match/profit share
$12,000 non-traditional IRA, converted to backdoor Roth
$7,000 HSA
$??? taxable: If I have anything I plan on investing. This year I do, which is why the Fidelity account has cash.
Very good.

When just starting establishing a high rate of contributions is the most important investing decision you can make.

uthendo wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 8:02 am
Age: 45

Desired Asset allocation: 80-100% stocks / 0-20% bonds. I know this is much more aggressive than advisable, but I'm a "young" investor--I started investing 4 years ago, and have 15-20 years to go. The AA will naturally move towards bonds, as will be explained below.
Desired International allocation: ???% of stocks. I don't know enough to say whether I want to invest international or not. I'm open to suggestions.
. . . . .
Outside of the cash balance plan, I'm mostly TSM/S&P500, with a very small portion in SCV, bonds, and international. The cash balance plan is targeting a consistent 5% return so it's weighted more towards bonds (I believe it's a 60/40 split). Over time the cash balance plan will outgrow the rest of the portfolio so the bond portion of my AA will grow.
At age 45, just starting out, and 17% already in the cash balance plan, in the rest of the portfolio I suggest about 20% in bonds or other fixed income investments (like CDs, savings accounts, money market fund). This is expected to substantially reduce portfolio volatility (risk), with only a relatively modest decrease in portfolio return. Graph, "An Efficient Frontier: the power of diversification". Please see:
1) Wiki article Bogleheads® investment philosophy, part 3 "Never bear too much or too little risk";
2) Wiki article, "Asset allocation"; and
3) Morningstar (8/20/2019), "The Best Diversifiers for Your Equity Portfolio".

I suggest around 20 - 30% of stocks in international stocks. Vanguard paper (March 2012), "Considerations for investing in non-U.S. equities". Historically, allocating 20% of an equity portfolio to non-U.S. stocks would have captured about 84% of the maximum possible diversification benefit, and allocating 30% of an equity portfolio to non-U.S. stocks would have captured about 99% of the maximum possible diversification benefit (p. 6). (You can find lots of debate here on international allocation, opinions ranging all the way from 00% to 50% of stocks in international stocks. If you want more viewpoints on international stocks please try the Google search box, upper right, this page).

Morningstar (11/14/2019), "Revisiting the Case for International". "The case for diversifying internationally isn’t as strong as it used to be, especially if you’re looking for significant risk reduction or consistently better returns. From a portfolio perspective, we typically recommend a healthy international weighting--roughly 25% of total assets--for investors with longer time horizons."

In the rest of the portfolio that works out to about 20% bonds, 20% international stocks, and 60% domestic stocks. Asset allocation is a very personal decision. You must decide on an allocation that is comfortable for you based on your own ability, willingness and need to take risk.
I'll add the fees when I get a chance. I do not pay additional fees for DFA funds, though I do pay .48% AUM fees regardless of the funds (401k and cash balance plans).

Two brokerage accounts: I started with Vanguard for IRA and brokerage, then added an HSA--I don't know if Vanguard does HSAs but Fidelity does so I went with them. Then I read about people using Fidelity checking/brokerage accounts to utilize money market accounts as high yield savings accounts. Considering I get a few pennies in interest for cash I thought it would be worth doing that. So that's why I now have two brokerage accounts. I don't think I could fully consolidate all accounts into one company, as there are brokerage, IRA, 529, and HSA accounts. BTW, as far as I can tell, the money market account--the reason for opening a brokerage account at Fidelity--is paying just about nothing in interest too.

Topic Author
uthendo
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 7:01 am

Re: Portfolio advice

Post by uthendo » Thu May 28, 2020 8:08 am

lakpr wrote:
Sat May 23, 2020 9:07 pm
What is your tax situation looking like? Are you taking standard deduction or itemizing?

I was going to suggest pay off your primary home mortgage. A 3% guaranteed return is not something you can get nowadays in the Total bond market. Treat the mortgage as a negative bond that it is. Rather than investing in total bond market index for 20% of your portfolio, take that 20% you intend to invest in TBM and payoff mortgage. Stay 100% in stocks with the remainder of the portfolio. 3% is a compelling return even if you are itemizing and getting tax benefit on mortgage interest.

Once you have the primary home mortgage paid off, you can start paying down your commercial mortgage for the same guaranteed 4.625% return. The prepayment penalty period might have passed by then.

Add more money into your kids 529 plans. At 35% bracket your kids are not going to get any financial aid for college. I think each of your kids needs about $120k in today's dollars to cover their education fully.
I am itemizing. I was thinking of paying down the mortgage vs investing more in the market. There are a few things swaying me one way or another. Theoretically the market should beat the mortgage interest rate (which is also tax deductible). If I invest in the market the money is still liquid--if I pay off the mortgage the money is illiquid.

I am concerned about the stability of my job. It likely won't go away, but my income can fluctuate quite a bit. I was a non-essential worker during the two month shutdown, so my income this year is going to be less than last year. How much, I don't know. The cash balance plan is going to require a $130k contribution plus any losses of prior contributions (so far it's only $10k but that's only if the market doesn't bottom out from here). In the worst case scenario I don't earn enough to make the annual contribution and the market tanks so I have to contribute tens of thousands more. I think this last point is why I'm sitting on cash... If I contribute to the plan now and the market tanks I have to come up with more. If I wait until the end of the year and contribute then it's less volatile, but then I miss out on potential gains (and losses). I dunno.

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ruralavalon
Posts: 18230
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:29 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Portfolio advice

Post by ruralavalon » Thu May 28, 2020 9:17 am

I'll add the fees when I get a chance. I do not pay additional fees for DFA funds, though I do pay .48% AUM fees regardless of the funds (401k and cash balance plans).
Are you paying someone to manage your investments in the 401k and cash balance plan?
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

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WWJBDo
Posts: 85
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2018 9:43 am
Location: California

Re: Portfolio advice

Post by WWJBDo » Thu May 28, 2020 9:54 am

Your portfolio looks very good and changes will only be modest.
My only suggestion is that you set up a Donor Advised Fund (DAF) at FIdelity if you don't already have one. Fund it with a large bolus of money every few years so you can itemize on your taxes that year and then use the fund to make donations annually. Bolus funding a DAF allows you to maximize deductions on your taxes.
"It is difficult to get a man to understand something when his salary depends upon his not understanding it." Upton Sinclair

Topic Author
uthendo
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 7:01 am

Re: Portfolio advice

Post by uthendo » Thu May 28, 2020 10:17 am

ruralavalon wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 9:17 am
I'll add the fees when I get a chance. I do not pay additional fees for DFA funds, though I do pay .48% AUM fees regardless of the funds (401k and cash balance plans).
Are you paying someone to manage your investments in the 401k and cash balance plan?
Yes and no. The investments in the 401k are self-directed but the cash balance plan is managed but I may have input on it (never tried). The AUM fees are part of the plan, I believe it's so that the company acts as a fiduciary. I can call and ask for advice... maybe that's what the fees are for. Whatever the case the only way to stop those fees is to switch 401k/CB companies, but other companies will have their own fees. I talked to one company that will do a no-AUM 401k, but the annual fee was significantly greater than the AUM fees. I think the break-even point was somewhere around $1.5M in assets.

User avatar
ruralavalon
Posts: 18230
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:29 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Portfolio advice

Post by ruralavalon » Thu May 28, 2020 10:19 am

uthendo wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 10:17 am
ruralavalon wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 9:17 am
I'll add the fees when I get a chance. I do not pay additional fees for DFA funds, though I do pay .48% AUM fees regardless of the funds (401k and cash balance plans).
Are you paying someone to manage your investments in the 401k and cash balance plan?
Yes and no. The investments in the 401k are self-directed but the cash balance plan is managed but I may have input on it (never tried). The AUM fees are part of the plan, I believe it's so that the company acts as a fiduciary. I can call and ask for advice... maybe that's what the fees are for. Whatever the case the only way to stop those fees is to switch 401k/CB companies, but other companies will have their own fees. I talked to one company that will do a no-AUM 401k, but the annual fee was significantly greater than the AUM fees. I think the break-even point was somewhere around $1.5M in assets.
So the 0.48% assets under management fee is on the cash balance pension plan only, not on the funds in the 401k account?
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

Topic Author
uthendo
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 7:01 am

Re: Portfolio advice

Post by uthendo » Thu May 28, 2020 10:21 am

WWJBDo wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 9:54 am
Your portfolio looks very good and changes will only be modest.
My only suggestion is that you set up a Donor Advised Fund (DAF) at FIdelity if you don't already have one. Fund it with a large bolus of money every few years so you can itemize on your taxes that year and then use the fund to make donations annually. Bolus funding a DAF allows you to maximize deductions on your taxes.
I do make charitable contributions, but not a significant amount. I'll be honest and say why---I'm the sole income source for my family and don't have anywhere near enough for retirement or college funds. I'm 45 years old, and way behind in terms of assets given my age. In the same way you're supposed to fund your retirement before college funds, I think both should take precedence over charitable contributions. Once I have enough in those, then I will increase charitable contributions.

Topic Author
uthendo
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat May 23, 2020 7:01 am

Re: Portfolio advice

Post by uthendo » Thu May 28, 2020 10:23 am

ruralavalon wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 10:19 am
uthendo wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 10:17 am
ruralavalon wrote:
Thu May 28, 2020 9:17 am
I'll add the fees when I get a chance. I do not pay additional fees for DFA funds, though I do pay .48% AUM fees regardless of the funds (401k and cash balance plans).
Are you paying someone to manage your investments in the 401k and cash balance plan?
Yes and no. The investments in the 401k are self-directed but the cash balance plan is managed but I may have input on it (never tried). The AUM fees are part of the plan, I believe it's so that the company acts as a fiduciary. I can call and ask for advice... maybe that's what the fees are for. Whatever the case the only way to stop those fees is to switch 401k/CB companies, but other companies will have their own fees. I talked to one company that will do a no-AUM 401k, but the annual fee was significantly greater than the AUM fees. I think the break-even point was somewhere around $1.5M in assets.
So the 0.48% assets under management fee is on the cash balance pension plan only, not on the funds in the 401k account?
I'll look it up when I have some time for accuracy, but I believe the fee applies to both plans, and is in addition to fund fees. IIRC the .4% is for the 401k/CB plan, .08% is for fiduciary duties, and then each fund has its own ER fees.

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