Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

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Topic Author
DocHudson
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Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by DocHudson » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:14 am

Hello all,

I hope everyone is healthy and taking all care during these difficult times.

I am trying to transfer HSA assets from my current credit union to Fidelity HSA and the form needs a Medallion Signature guarantee. Everything is under (almost) lockdown where I live and all notary places I am aware of are closed. I called Fidelity's local office. While they are actually working, they do not allow anyone in the office so they are of no help.

Is there any other way to handle this or I just need to wait till I have access to the notary before I send the form to transfer the assets?

Thanks in advance.

jebmke
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by jebmke » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:18 am

In the past when we needed this we had it done at a bank branch. My state is in "lock down" but banks are open - "essential services."
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Kenkat
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by Kenkat » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:18 am

DocHudson wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:14 am
Hello all,

I hope everyone is healthy and taking all care during these difficult times.

I am trying to transfer HSA assets from my current credit union to Fidelity HSA and the form needs a Medallion Signature guarantee. Everything is under (almost) lockdown where I live and all notary places I am aware of are closed. I called Fidelity's local office. While they are actually working, they do not allow anyone in the office so they are of no help.

Is there any other way to handle this or I just need to wait till I have access to the notary before I send the form to transfer the assets?

Thanks in advance.
A medallion signature is different than having the document notarized and so a notary might not be able to provide this service anyway. I usually go to my bank to get a medallion signature (this is very infrequent but I have done it). I would be sure to bring proof of identity as well as proof of ownership of the account such as a statement as that was asked of me and I had to run home and get it. This was all pre-Corona however so I don’t know if banks are still providing this service currently.

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whodidntante
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by whodidntante » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:22 am

You do not need a notary or a signature guarantee to do this. Instead, do this:

1) Make sure that you have not done an indirect rollover in any of your IRAs/HSAs for the last 12 months.
2) Take a full distribution from the HSA, or if you'd like to keep it open, leave 2 cents. Do this via "reimburse yourself" or whatever they call it. The HSA custodian need not know what you are doing. Do nothing until you deposit this money.
3) Write a check to Fidelity. In the "For" field, write "60 day rollover for HSA" followed by your HSA account number. You do not need a form, or a letter of instruction, or anything else. Just do exactly what I described.
4) Mail the check to Fidelity.
5) Make sure you do not do another indirect rollover for IRAs/HSAs for the next 12 months.
6) Look online to confirm they haven't counted your check as a contribution. If so, call and make fun of them until they fix it.

Note that distributions from 401ks are not included in the 12 month period.
Last edited by whodidntante on Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

quantAndHold
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by quantAndHold » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:24 am

I wonder if this will be the event that finally kills medallion signature guarantees for good.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.

aristotelian
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by aristotelian » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:25 am

Sometimes the form has a space for the medallion guarantee even though it's not actually required. You might call Fidelity to make sure it is needed. I transferred my HSA to Fidelity and don't recall needing it.

terran
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by terran » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:28 am

whodidntante wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:22 am
You do not need a notary or a signature guarantee to do this. Instead, do this:
+1. I would do an indirect 60 day rollover if you haven't done one in the last 12 months. I do this every year to avoid transfer fees.

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DocHudson
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by DocHudson » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:37 am

@ aristotelian
I called both the institutions and nobody gave me a straight answer. The credit union mentioned that it is usually needed. The Fidelity guy wasn't so sure either, suggested calling the customer service. I hung up after being on hold for an hour. My wife wants me to send in as-is. Her argument is, if Fidelity or the credit union really want that signature, Fidelity will let us know one way or the other. But I do not want any complications, hence trying to get such a signature.

@ whodidntante
I do not have check access to the HSA account at the credit union, only debit card access. Not too sure how I can figure this out.

As I said in the OP, the banks/financial institutions are open but they won't let anyone inside. So even though it is classified as an essential service, it is pretty useless when it comes to services like this.

quantAndHold
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by quantAndHold » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:45 am

It would be the credit union that either needs or doesn’t need the signature guarantee. Fidelity will put it on their form “just in case” the organization that currently holds the money requires one.

In the same situation, with the same form, moving money from HsABank to Fidelity, I called HSABank, and they said they don’t need it, so I just left that section of the form blank.

Actually, in general, I’ve moved a lot of money from brokerage to brokerage and account to account in the past few years (parent died and I was the executor). IIRC, every form I filled out had space for a medallion signature guarantee, but nobody actually required it. I think the last time I did a transfer where someone actually needed one was in the 90’s.
Last edited by quantAndHold on Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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terran
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by terran » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:47 am

DocHudson wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:37 am
@ whodidntante
I do not have check access to the HSA account at the credit union, only debit card access. Not too sure how I can figure this out.
You should still be able to request a reimbursement by transfer to your regular bank account or by check either online or through a mailed in form that will have the same effect. A distribution for medical expense reimbursement and one for any other purpose is coded the same by the FROM institution )(the 1099SA they send will be the same), so you just need to make sure the TO institution (Fidelity) codes it as a rollover contribution which you do by filling out the contribution form and checking the 60 day rollover box.

Next year, you'll fill out form 8889 with your taxes and as long as the distribution is equal to your qualified medical expenses plus the rollover contribution you won't owe any tax or penalty.

diy60
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by diy60 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:57 am

DocHudson wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:14 am
Is there any other way to handle this or I just need to wait till I have access to the notary before I send the form to transfer the assets?
I wouldn't mess around with calling. Do it all online, initiate from the Fidelity side. Fill out the electronic form from Fidelity's website, choose electronic signature, within a few minutes you will receive the form via email requesting your electronic signature. Sign it electronically per instructions. Funds should show up in 3 to 5 days, at least that was my experience. The Medallion guarantee is a standard component of the form, rarely needed these days.

retired@50
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by retired@50 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:09 am

I transferred my HSA away from a credit union, to Fidelity. I never contacted the credit union, and never filled out a piece of paper. All I did was open the HSA at Fidelity, then tell them to go get the money from the credit union. I did have to provide an electronic copy of my credit union HSA statement. In 3 weeks it was finished.

DW straightened out my recollection. I did mail a form, but no medallion signature guarantee was required.

Regards,
Last edited by retired@50 on Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Topic Author
DocHudson
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by DocHudson » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:22 am

I just tried initiating the transfer from Fidelity account as someone mentioned above. It gave me the same pdf that it gave during the account opening process. So it seems like my current credit union does need this signature.

diy60
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by diy60 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:47 am

DocHudson wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:22 am
I just tried initiating the transfer from Fidelity account as someone mentioned above. It gave me the same pdf that it gave during the account opening process. So it seems like my current credit union does need this signature.
It's a standard Fidelity form, the Medallion section is included if needed. Just ignore the Medallion section. Fill out the form electronically, agree to electronic approval, the form will be emailed to you in seconds for your approval, electronically approve per the instructions. If the credit union refuses to transfer the funds you'll find out soon enough.

Topic Author
DocHudson
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by DocHudson » Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:58 am

diy60 wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:47 am
DocHudson wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 10:22 am
I just tried initiating the transfer from Fidelity account as someone mentioned above. It gave me the same pdf that it gave during the account opening process. So it seems like my current credit union does need this signature.
It's a standard Fidelity form, the Medallion section is included if needed. Just ignore the Medallion section. Fill out the form electronically, agree to electronic approval, the form will be emailed to you in seconds for your approval, electronically approve per the instructions. If the credit union refuses to transfer the funds you'll find out soon enough.
I didn't get such an option of electronic signature, it just gave the pdf. I am on hold for the chat with the representative. I will ask them why I didn't get such an option.

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willthrill81
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by willthrill81 » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:05 am

I've done several transfers from HealthEquity to Fidelity and have not needed a Medallion signature on any of them.
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by whodidntante » Tue Mar 24, 2020 11:10 am

The way I take the distribution is via ACH to my Fidelity CMA account, all done online. It might be different for you. But regardless, your HSA custodian will have a way of reimbursing yourself for medical expenses, and again, they do not need to know your intentions to do a 60-day rollover.

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DocHudson
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by DocHudson » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:06 pm

OK, an update.

After waiting for more than an hour for a chat associate, I was informed that this Medallion signature is required. I am asked to drop off the form and the supporting documents requested with my call back number in the drop boxes that are installed outside every branch. A Fidelity personnel will check the forms and call to confirm whatever they may need and provide this signature.

I will update if this doesn't go through.

RetiredCSProf
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by RetiredCSProf » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:42 pm

Thanks for the info. I've been wondering how to take QCDs from Fido. They have a similar requirement. I usually bring the request into the local Fido office.

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by sport » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:56 pm

RetiredCSProf wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:42 pm
Thanks for the info. I've been wondering how to take QCDs from Fido. They have a similar requirement. I usually bring the request into the local Fido office.
You can make QCD donations from Vanguard by requesting a check on-line. Doesn't Fido have a similar capability?

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by destiny » Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:58 pm

My recent experience (couple of week ago ) when I setup my DW HSA with Fidelity , first we did the fidelity online asset transfer request to transfer funds from her ex employer's UMB HSA bank. Fidelity asked us to download the completed asset transfer pdf document, print , sign and submit with latest HSA account statement from transferring institution in person at Fidelity local office , in this case no medallion signatures were required as Fidelity person were able to verify ID and the supporting documents .

The funds have not transferred yet , ETA I guess was somewhere April second week. With the current COVID fiasco , not sure it will further delay the transfer of funds to Fidelity.
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by ruralavalon » Tue Mar 24, 2020 1:25 pm

DocHudson wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:14 am
Hello all,

I hope everyone is healthy and taking all care during these difficult times.

I am trying to transfer HSA assets from my current credit union to Fidelity HSA and the form needs a Medallion Signature guarantee. Everything is under (almost) lockdown where I live and all notary places I am aware of are closed. I called Fidelity's local office. While they are actually working, they do not allow anyone in the office so they are of no help.

Is there any other way to handle this or I just need to wait till I have access to the notary before I send the form to transfer the assets?

Thanks in advance.
I have always gotten the medallion signiture guarantee free at a local branch bank, banks are still open in my area. Maybe your credit union can do that for you.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

RetiredCSProf
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by RetiredCSProf » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:04 pm

sport wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:56 pm
RetiredCSProf wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:42 pm
Thanks for the info. I've been wondering how to take QCDs from Fido. They have a similar requirement. I usually bring the request into the local Fido office.
You can make QCD donations from Vanguard by requesting a check on-line. Doesn't Fido have a similar capability?
Thanks. I tried the Fido online option for taking QCDs, but found it confusing. I waited on phone for 60 minutes to try to get answers, before giving up.

My questions are:
1) Form says "Reduced RMD Plan: No" -- what does that mean? The "No" comes up automatically -- can't be changed
2) How to fix mailing address for charity when their software "standardizes" the address?

sport
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by sport » Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:08 pm

RetiredCSProf wrote:
Wed Mar 25, 2020 3:04 pm
sport wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:56 pm
RetiredCSProf wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 12:42 pm
Thanks for the info. I've been wondering how to take QCDs from Fido. They have a similar requirement. I usually bring the request into the local Fido office.
You can make QCD donations from Vanguard by requesting a check on-line. Doesn't Fido have a similar capability?
Thanks. I tried the Fido online option for taking QCDs, but found it confusing. I waited on phone for 60 minutes to try to get answers, before giving up.

My questions are:
1) Form says "Reduced RMD Plan: No" -- what does that mean? The "No" comes up automatically -- can't be changed
2) How to fix mailing address for charity when their software "standardizes" the address?
1) Seems to be related to automatic RMD withdrawals. My account is not at Fido so I really cannot say.
2) Vanguard sends the check made out to the charity to me, at my home address. I then forward the check to the charity. I feel this is better because I can add information to the donation such as "in honor of" or "in memory of".

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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee » Wed Mar 25, 2020 7:48 pm

Medallion signature guarantees put the medallion-granting company on the hook for any related losses due to fraud. Of course they're reluctant to issue them under many circumstances.

A notary is not financially liable if something fraudulent happens. That's why, for some transactions, their testimony is not adequate.

PJW
Last edited by Phineas J. Whoopee on Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.

RetiredCSProf
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by RetiredCSProf » Wed Mar 25, 2020 8:42 pm

Thanks, I finally did get through to someone at Fido. The question regarding the online QCD for "Reduced RMD Plan" refers to whether I have set up automatic RMD distributions, which I have not, so it automatically defaults to "no." I usually have QCD checks mailed to me first, but I wanted to send one directly to the charity.

edited to add: Fido offers an option for saying something in a memo: in honor / memory of

Saving$
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Re: Medallion Signature guarantee, Notaries not accessible

Post by Saving$ » Wed Mar 25, 2020 9:21 pm

aristotelian wrote:
Tue Mar 24, 2020 9:25 am
Sometimes the form has a space for the medallion guarantee even though it's not actually required. You might call Fidelity to make sure it is needed. I transferred my HSA to Fidelity and don't recall needing it.
This.
I also transferred my HSA to Fidelity, using the form with the requirement for a medallion signature, but Fidelity told me it was not necessary to get one.

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