What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

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TheTimeLord
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What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by TheTimeLord » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:47 am

Anyone gain any insights from yesterday's sell off? I feel I got confirmation that I am truly Financially Independent. I have felt I was for a while now, but even though my losses from yesterday's sell off were significant in dollar terms I suffered no stress or regret or sense of loss. So I guess net net yesterday was a good day for me.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

an_asker
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by an_asker » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:48 am

I reinforced my thought that we are still in the accumulation phase ;-)

runner3081
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by runner3081 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:50 am

Didn't even think about it.

mptfan
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by mptfan » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:52 am

There was a sell off? What is a sell off?

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RootSki
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by RootSki » Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:54 am

I looked. Then I told my wife. We both laughed and then played with our son.

Later in the evening my closest friend and I were discussing making some equity buys today.

mortfree
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by mortfree » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:01 am

Yes.

That was nothing and to think it was any kind of test or learning experience is foolish.

Wait for the real declines to test your AA.

I lost 20k yesterday across all accounts

hoffse
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by hoffse » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:02 am

I learned that at a ~3% drop the request I made to personal capital to please stop calling gets ignored. My “personal advisor” reached out to try to talk to me about volatility in the market. Wasn’t interested a year ago and still not interested.

mickroark
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by mickroark » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:05 am

buy low sell hi. invest but don't lose money.

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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:06 am

Well.....my RSUs released to me on the 18th, and I sold them all. Settled and moved the cash. I must be a genius, selling right at the peak, right? Well, if that's the case, my ESPP shares vest 3/2, so feel free to sell then. That's what I'll be doing. Regardless of what the market is doing.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

Goal33
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by Goal33 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:07 am

I learned that 3% is a lot of dollars now
A man with one watch always knows what time it is; a man with two watches is never sure.

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Oak&Elm
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by Oak&Elm » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:10 am

I learned it helps to have a substantial allocation to bonds to help cushion against the big drop. Didn't do anything about it yesterday but it metally helps.

harvestbook
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by harvestbook » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:11 am

That Bitcoin is a horrible negatively correlated "asset" to stocks (or probably anything, for that matter).
I'm not smart enough to know, and I can't afford to guess.

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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by Dottie57 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:12 am

3+% subtracted what for me is a large amount from my PF. However , I slept well last night so my low stock AA is allowing me to sleep well.

With Corona virus (fud) + plus heightened expectation of a finish to a very long bull market, am expecting more down days.

rich126
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by rich126 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:15 am

Goal33 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:07 am
I learned that 3% is a lot of dollars now
Well it is 75% of a 4% SWR amount. Or even in a 60/40 retirement account it is nearly 50% of your withdrawal amount, so yeah, could be thought of a lot.

pasadena
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by pasadena » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:16 am

That these days never happen to me on pay days, or tax refund days and that is not fair :twisted:

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AerialWombat
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by AerialWombat » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:18 am

My portfolio dropped about 0.5%. It confirmed that I’m in the correct AA for myself.

QueenofAngst
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by QueenofAngst » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:19 am

I was gonna panic and then I realized that my portfolio is so small that my recent bonus contribution influenced the graph way more than the dip. It's kinda cool to see the contribution vs investment gain difference, but also a little sad that I'm so far away that a 5% swing is unnoticeable.

L82GAME
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by L82GAME » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:20 am

To stay the course

QueenofAngst
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by QueenofAngst » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:21 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:06 am
Well.....my RSUs released to me on the 18th, and I sold them all. Settled and moved the cash. I must be a genius, selling right at the peak, right? Well, if that's the case, my ESPP shares vest 3/2, so feel free to sell then. That's what I'll be doing. Regardless of what the market is doing.
I did the same! It's such a rush when you accidentally time the market and get it right.

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TheTimeLord
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by TheTimeLord » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:22 am

mortfree wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:01 am
Yes.

That was nothing and to think it was any kind of test or learning experience is foolish.

Wait for the real declines to test your AA.

I lost 20k yesterday across all accounts
Then I am a fool. No problem I will own that if yesterday could not be seen as a learn experience.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

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Brianmcg321
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by Brianmcg321 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:22 am

There was a sell off yesterday?
Rules to investing: | 1. Don't lose money. | 2. Don't forget rule number 1.

WildBill
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by WildBill » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:23 am

Howdy

I learned that markets fluctuate. But I already knew that.

W B
"Through chances various, through all vicissitudes, we make our way." Virgil, The Aeneid

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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by corysold » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:24 am

I learned I'm glad I switched to Fidelity. They were so kind to lock out my account so I couldn't even think about panic selling. What a great company and amazing customer service.

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TheTimeLord
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by TheTimeLord » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:26 am

Today I am learning whistling in the graveyard is a popular BH hobby. Just kidding I already knew it.
Last edited by TheTimeLord on Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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TheTimeLord
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by TheTimeLord » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:26 am

AerialWombat wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:18 am
My portfolio dropped about 0.5%. It confirmed that I’m in the correct AA for myself.
It would have been a good day for that sort of confirmation.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

02nz
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by 02nz » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:27 am

TheTimeLord wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:47 am
Anyone gain any insights from yesterday's sell off? I feel I got confirmation that I am truly Financially Independent. I have felt I was for a while now, but even though my losses from yesterday's sell off were significant in dollar terms I suffered no stress or regret or sense of loss. So I guess net net yesterday was a good day for me.
I'm not sure I'd be so quick to conclude I gained insights from a day where the market was down 3%. Check back in if and when the market is down 30% or more.

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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by dknightd » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:27 am

TheTimeLord wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:47 am
Anyone gain any insights from yesterday's sell off? I feel I got confirmation that I am truly Financially Independent. I have felt I was for a while now, but even though my losses from yesterday's sell off were significant in dollar terms I suffered no stress or regret or sense of loss. So I guess net net yesterday was a good day for me.
:)
If you value a bird in the hand, pay off the loan. If you are willing to risk getting two birds (or none) from the market, invest the funds.

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Kenkat
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by Kenkat » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:28 am

I learned that it be that way sometimes. Again.

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midareff
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by midareff » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:28 am

nothing.... it's an open free competitive market doing what markets do.

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TheTimeLord
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by TheTimeLord » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:31 am

02nz wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:27 am
TheTimeLord wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:47 am
Anyone gain any insights from yesterday's sell off? I feel I got confirmation that I am truly Financially Independent. I have felt I was for a while now, but even though my losses from yesterday's sell off were significant in dollar terms I suffered no stress or regret or sense of loss. So I guess net net yesterday was a good day for me.
I'm not sure I'd be so quick to conclude I gained insights from a day where the market was down 3%. Check back in if and when the market is down 30% or more.
I will learn less from that than I will learn from days like yesterday. Yesterday gave a chance to see if I would panic and how I would react. Normally something like a 30% drop is a slow drawn out process like Q4 of 2018, plenty of time to react and deal with the slow motion tumble down the mountain.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by AerialWombat » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:32 am

TheTimeLord wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:26 am
AerialWombat wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:18 am
My portfolio dropped about 0.5%. It confirmed that I’m in the correct AA for myself.
It would have been a good day for that sort of confirmation.
My upside objective is to merely stay ahead of inflation. I’m all about preserving purchasing power. Any extra CAGR is just gravy to me.

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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by bampf » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:32 am

TheTimeLord wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:22 am
mortfree wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:01 am
Yes.

That was nothing and to think it was any kind of test or learning experience is foolish.

Wait for the real declines to test your AA.

I lost 20k yesterday across all accounts
Then I am a fool. No problem I will own that if yesterday could not be seen as a learn experience.
I don't think I understand what there is to learn here.

If you look at VOO, for instance, it is at the same price as it was the end of January. Yes, $15 lower a share compared to last Friday, but, $25 higher compared to Oct 2019.

What else is there to learn from the fact that markets go up and markets go down? Risk and fear and greed all play a factor. The nearly monastic mantra here is: You got to pay to play (you need to have money in the market, what other choice is there?), markets will go up and down, nobody knows when it will go up or down (and people that say they do are liars).

Have enough risk, enough ready capital to live and relax. If you don't like the price today, wait a day, it will change. (up or down, who knows?).

chevca
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by chevca » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:33 am

What was to learn? The market goes up... the market goes down... sometimes by a good amount. Was this not known before yesterday?

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TheTimeLord
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by TheTimeLord » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:33 am

AerialWombat wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:32 am
TheTimeLord wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:26 am
AerialWombat wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:18 am
My portfolio dropped about 0.5%. It confirmed that I’m in the correct AA for myself.
It would have been a good day for that sort of confirmation.
My upside objective is to merely stay ahead of inflation. I’m all about preserving purchasing power. Any extra CAGR is just gravy to me.
We are probably similar in that way. I am more about winning the game than running up the score.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

aceoperations
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by aceoperations » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:34 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:06 am
Well.....my RSUs released to me on the 18th, and I sold them all. Settled and moved the cash. I must be a genius, selling right at the peak, right? Well, if that's the case, my ESPP shares vest 3/2, so feel free to sell then. That's what I'll be doing. Regardless of what the market is doing.
Well, my RSUs were released on Feb 21st. I was sick all day and decided to do something about it on Feb 24th. Bam! No genius moves here :beer ... I'll sell them this week or the next anyway, regardless of the price. Why don't I sell today? Hmm I don't know...

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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by Hockey10 » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:35 am

I learned that on a percentage basis, the drop was the 235th worst since 1928 for the S&P 500 and its predecessor indices. But most of the major news organizations reported that it was the 3rd worst day in history for the Dow (true on a points basis).

As always, ignore the noise and the distorted headlines.

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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by Godot » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:35 am

mickroark wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:05 am
buy low sell hi. invest but don't lose money.
Oh, so you sold high?
Estragon: I can't go on like this. | Vladimir: That's what you think. | ― Samuel Beckett, Waiting for Godot

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TheTimeLord
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by TheTimeLord » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:36 am

bampf wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:32 am
TheTimeLord wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:22 am
mortfree wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:01 am
Yes.

That was nothing and to think it was any kind of test or learning experience is foolish.

Wait for the real declines to test your AA.

I lost 20k yesterday across all accounts
Then I am a fool. No problem I will own that if yesterday could not be seen as a learn experience.
I don't think I understand what there is to learn here.

If you look at VOO, for instance, it is at the same price as it was the end of January. Yes, $15 lower a share compared to last Friday, but, $25 higher compared to Oct 2019.

What else is there to learn from the fact that markets go up and markets go down? Risk and fear and greed all play a factor. The nearly monastic mantra here is: You got to pay to play (you need to have money in the market, what other choice is there?), markets will go up and down, nobody knows when it will go up or down (and people that say they do are liars).

Have enough risk, enough ready capital to live and relax. If you don't like the price today, wait a day, it will change. (up or down, who knows?).
Probably depends how often you check your balances. So to my mind that is how much I have and any reduction to that number brings whatever pain is associated with a loss. So I rarely look back and say but I am up from such and such date. Just my nature.
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. | Run, You Clever Boy! [9085]

quantAndHold
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by quantAndHold » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:43 am

What did I learn? Nothing, actually. One day is noise, in the big scheme of things. I’ve been through this a few times. Ask me again at 30% down.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.

bampf
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by bampf » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:43 am

TheTimeLord wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:36 am
bampf wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:32 am

I don't think I understand what there is to learn here.

If you look at VOO, for instance, it is at the same price as it was the end of January. Yes, $15 lower a share compared to last Friday, but, $25 higher compared to Oct 2019.

What else is there to learn from the fact that markets go up and markets go down? Risk and fear and greed all play a factor. The nearly monastic mantra here is: You got to pay to play (you need to have money in the market, what other choice is there?), markets will go up and down, nobody knows when it will go up or down (and people that say they do are liars).

Have enough risk, enough ready capital to live and relax. If you don't like the price today, wait a day, it will change. (up or down, who knows?).
Probably depends how often you check your balances. So to my mind that is how much I have and any reduction to that number brings whatever pain is associated with a loss. So I rarely look back and say but I am up from such and such date. Just my nature.
I suppose I can appreciate that except the pain is by definition artificial. You haven't really lost anything until you execute. Once you execute, you lock in either gains or losses, pay taxes or offset other gains and you are left with the right to acquire a good and or service in exchange for a number. In other words, a market drop translates into only the possibility that you have a real loss, not the actuality unless you do something about it (setting aside external factors like a company imploding ...oh hello Enron/Worldcom etc...).

Anyway, I don't sweat it. No other choice.

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Ramjet
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by Ramjet » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:45 am

I don't think it was significant enough to be a learning event for most

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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by EddyB » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:49 am

Many people will seize on specific events to confirm their beliefs and claims, notwithstanding that broader developments run to the contrary.

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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by Puretaxableindexer » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:49 am

I've been through many stock market downturns, but I never sell, I add to my AA and rebalance. The people who sold after 2008 and invested in something like "crashproofretirement" made nothing and paid high fees for an annuity.

chipperd
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by chipperd » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:49 am

Ramjet wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:45 am
I don't think it was significant enough to be a learning event for most
+1
Only 3.5% drop if you are 100% US stocks.
I put some cash to work.

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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by flaccidsteele » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:52 am

TheTimeLord wrote:
Tue Feb 25, 2020 9:47 am
Anyone gain any insights from yesterday's sell off?
Absolutely nothing

Having purchased stock in the teeth of the tech crash and credit crisis, yesterday was a non-event

We need the market down 20%+ and stay down for months for me to start caring tbh
The US market always recovers. It’s never different this time. Retired in my 40s. Investing is a simple game of rinse and repeat

magicrat
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by magicrat » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:53 am

I learned that days like yesterday are good days to check the value of my physical gold to get some good feelings :)

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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by watchnerd » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:54 am

I got to watch long Treasuries vs Gold.
70% Global Market Weight Equities | 15% Long Treasuries 15% short TIPS & cash || RSU + ESPP

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calvin+hobbes
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by calvin+hobbes » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:55 am

First time witnessing this type of small market drop in real time as a Bogleheads member and with significant equity on the line. It was interesting.

There were a decent handful of doomsday posters amongst the various threads but collectively, it seemed the buy and hold/avoidance of market timing principles held ground. I was happy to see that. I think one day is a little too small a sample size. I can only imagine what a full blown market correction or stringing together a handful of RBDs would do to the psyche here. Guess I'll find out sooner or later.

I admit I checked the S&P about a dozen times throughout the day. I hadn't checked since deleting the Stocks app from my phone a couple months ago. I did hold off on checking my account balances. I will be happy to invest my usual amount when my monthly paycheck comes in on Friday.
Last edited by calvin+hobbes on Tue Feb 25, 2020 11:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

beehivehave
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by beehivehave » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:58 am

(1) That short term moves are usually meaningless but (2) just because the next day is better doesn't mean it's not a trend.

(1):
10/19/1987: -23%
10/21/1987: +10%
(2):
10/29/1029: -12%
10/30/1929: +12%

DaftInvestor
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Re: What did you learn from the 2/24 sell off?

Post by DaftInvestor » Tue Feb 25, 2020 10:58 am

I learned nothing. I only look at my balances/allocations monthly anyway so have yet to see a loss :) When I look the loss could be greater or lower - we will see.

In any case - I just looked at a graph of VTI over 6 months and 5 Years - this "Sell Off" (at least so far) was barely a blip to even short-term holders give the recent run-ups.

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