How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

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Fat-Tailed Contagion
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How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by Fat-Tailed Contagion » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:09 pm

New to this and want to buy a little.

What are the best practices for buying?
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PoppyA
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by PoppyA » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:21 pm

Search for bitcoin. There was a recent thread with info.

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Sandtrap
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by Sandtrap » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:26 pm

Fat-Tailed Contagion wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:09 pm
New to this and want to buy a little.

What are the best practices for buying?
Not one to promote crypto-currency in one's portfolio.
However, if you have some "play" money. . . .

Here's one way out of many ways.
1. Open an account at Coinbase.
https://www.coinbase.com/
2. Open an account at a bank, or other, separate from your regular financial stuff.
Why? Compartmentalize for safety.
3. Go to Coinbase and setup a fund transfer link to your new bank account.
4. After verification and so forth. . .takes time.
5. Go to Coinbase and transfer funds from your bank to Coinbase.
6. Wait. You will see the funds in Coinbase as a $$$ balance.
7. Purchase/Buy your desired "crypto currency" (Bitcoin, etc).
8. You will now see 2 balances at Coinbase, one for the cash balance and the other for your crypto currency balance.
9. All of the above takes time.
10. An additional transaction verification was added awhile back. An "App" on your cell phone will receive the verification codes.

There are other places besides "Coinbase" to do this. All have fees.
*If you bought Bitcoin when it was 1 dollar per coin, you'd sit well right now. But, then again, if you bought Apple and Amazon, etc, when it was 1 dollar per share, you'd also be doing well right now.

Awhile back there were some threads here on how to do this and some were curious and tried, myself included.
* Some of the "digital professionals" (not me) here might have corrections or additions to the above list.

Have fun with this.
j :happy
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bluebirdy
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by bluebirdy » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:36 pm

Easiest way is just opening an account at Coinbase.com and buying on there.

Depending on how much you are buying, there are lower fee platforms, but not as user-friendly for beginners as Coinbase.

bowest
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by bowest » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:39 pm

Cash app is pretty straightforward if you just want to make a small purchase or play around. Easy in, easy out.

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Wiggums
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by Wiggums » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:42 pm

Bitcoin is 11 years old. Where have you been?

1 Bitcoin equals 8,609.56 United States Dollar
Jan 21, 6:34 PM UTC

[OT comment deleted by moderator oldcomputerguy]

bitdocmd
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by bitdocmd » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:51 pm

Cash App

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backofbeyond
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by backofbeyond » Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:53 pm

While not specifically BitCoin, you can buy HVBTF which is a cryptocurrency mining facility in Iceland over any major broker such as Charles Schwab.

I put in $100 on 1 Nov 2019, so far it's down 37%. :D
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3funder
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by 3funder » Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:55 pm

How do I convince you not to?

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by nisiprius » Tue Jan 21, 2020 4:13 pm

John C. Bogle said "Avoid bitcoin like the plague. Did I make myself clear?"

I don't know whether it's "good practice" or not, but the Coinstar machine in the local supermarket has a sign on it saying "buy bitcoin here." According to the directions--I haven't tried it--You put paper money (it will not accept coins, oddly, nor can you use credit or debit card) in, and it prints out a redemption code on a slip of paper. You then open an account at their affiliated bitcoin exchange, enter the code, and it puts bitcoin into that account. What happens then, I don't know. But it seems like an easy way to "buy some bitcoin."

Whenever you buy bitcoin at any exchange, you are trusting a centralized authority, and a surprisingly large number of bitcoin exchanges have not been trustworthy.

One thing you cannot do is to put bitcoin into a Coinstar machine and get dollars out, it is strictly one-way, which is... interesting. Now when you put coins into that machine, it prints out a slip that you can redeem for cash or use for a purchase at the checkout line. Based on the way it works with coins I don't know why you can't redeem your bitcoin holdings, in small amounts, in just the same way, but you can't. And I think that is interesting, too.

One detail: the "c" in bitcoin is not capitalized. I don't believe the initial "b" should be, either, but since news sources like Coindesk capitalize it now, I might be out of date on that.
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by boomer_techie » Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:03 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:26 pm
* Some of the "digital professionals" (not me) here might have corrections or additions to the above list.
First rule of crypto ownership: Never leave it sitting in an exchange. (Exchanges get hacked all the time...) Therefore:

11. Purchase a hardware "wallet".
12. Install a compatible software wallet application on your computer, or app on your phone/tablet.
12a. Install a "signature" checking application on your computer.
12b. Use the checker to check itself.
12c. Use the checker to verify the software wallet application is not hacked.
13. Use your hardware wallet to generate your own private crypto seed/keys. (Do not record the seed on anything electronic! It is however OK to chisel it into a piece of stone you'll bury in your back yard.)
14. Transfer your bitcoin from Coinbase to your hardware wallet.*

* Your crypto won't actually be "in" your hardware wallet, it will be in the cloud. The hardware wallet merely provides the keys needed to retrieve your crypto.

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by retired@50 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:06 pm

3funder wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 2:55 pm
How do I convince you not to?
+1 I'd urge you to be careful if you proceed on this course.

Regards,
This is one person's opinion. Nothing more.

RobLyons
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by RobLyons » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:33 pm

Step 1: Don't do it
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MP123
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by MP123 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:44 pm

I noticed that the 2019 1040 now has a question about whether you acquired any digital currency. Similar to the one about whether you have any foreign accounts. Not that it's illegal or anything.

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by Sandtrap » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:48 pm

boomer_techie wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:03 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:26 pm
* Some of the "digital professionals" (not me) here might have corrections or additions to the above list.
First rule of crypto ownership: Never leave it sitting in an exchange. (Exchanges get hacked all the time...) Therefore:

11. Purchase a hardware "wallet".
12. Install a compatible software wallet application on your computer, or app on your phone/tablet.
12a. Install a "signature" checking application on your computer.
12b. Use the checker to check itself.
12c. Use the checker to verify the software wallet application is not hacked.
13. Use your hardware wallet to generate your own private crypto seed/keys. (Do not record the seed on anything electronic! It is however OK to chisel it into a piece of stone you'll bury in your back yard.)
14. Transfer your bitcoin from Coinbase to your hardware wallet.*

* Your crypto won't actually be "in" your hardware wallet, it will be in the cloud. The hardware wallet merely provides the keys needed to retrieve your crypto.
Great points!
Thanks for posting.

I was not aware that exchanges get hacked. Does Coinbase get hacked?

j :happy
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go140point6
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by go140point6 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:51 pm

Coinbase is super beginner friendly... you'll pay for that level of hand-holding, but that might be what works best for you. Coinbase Pro is actually just as easy, in my opinion, but at a much lower transaction cost. You just sign up, verify and link your bank for ACH transfers via Coinbase and somewhere in there should be a way to link to Coinbase Pro. You can link CB Pro and choose to continue to use CB, they can work in tandem if you choose.

After you link your bank, if you do a deposit to CB that money will more of less be available to trade instantly I believe, but you can't transfer out your crypto for 10 days. If you initiate the deposit from CB Pro, you need to actually wait 10 days to trade with that money (I guess it's seen as CB doing the deposit transaction, and transferring it to CB Pro).

One big plus for Coinbase/Coinbase Pro is you can transfer out your crypto for no cost. This is a really big point compared to other exchanges. Almost all of them will charge you generally 0.0005 Bitcoin to transfer out (about $4.36) as of this writing. If you are doing little transactions, say $100 at a time, this is obviously not very cost efficient. As another poster above commented, it's never a good idea to leave your crypto on exchanges.

One last comment. If you go with Coinbase, check out coinbase.com/earn to watch little videos on various cryptocurrencies (usually 3-5 videos that are 1-3 minutes each). You'll earn those cryptos for free, and be able to swap them to Bitcoin if you prefer. You can probably earn about $100 in various cryptos currently, so a great way to practice trading if you decide to swap. I'd post one of my referral links for earn, but I doubt that would survive the mod ban hammer... lol... good luck on your crypto adventure... :beer

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by go140point6 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:52 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:48 pm

I was not aware that exchanges get hacked. Does Coinbase get hacked?

j :happy
I'm don't think CP has been hacked (that we know of), but google Mt. Gox for once of biggest hacks... yes, exchanges get hacked all the time!

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by jb1 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:03 pm

Why do you want to buy now? It was 50% off last summer

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by JonnyDVM » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:06 pm

There’s a fund GBTC. Grayscale bitcoin trust. It tracks bitcoin but you don’t need to mess around with the exchanges. Feels a lot easier than owning the actual stupid things and holding them in a virtual wallet or whatever with a password you put in a little glass bottle implanted under your skin for safety.
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by abuss368 » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:14 pm

I would really reconsider. This is speculation at best with no intrinsic value.
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RootSki
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by RootSki » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:38 pm

How much money are you willing to lose?

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by Silence Dogood » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:46 pm


nocebo
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by nocebo » Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:56 pm

Gemini.com or coinbase.com

My avg buy in price for bitcoin is 1000. I remember buying it at that price and everyone was saying how it was just 200/coin.... "you're gonna lose money" ... etc. Then it ran up to 20k and now it's around 8-9k. At the time, it felt like a real gamble but now I'm sitting pretty. Didnt take profit at 20k, not taking profit now... it'll go higher, I am sure of that. And that's funny to say because more of my portfolio is in traditional investments and nothing is garuanteed.... but I'm sure bitcoin will go up as much as I'm sure the US market will trend upwards. I'll take profit maybe around 30k, for sure around 40k. But that can be a long time from now....

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by gtrplayer » Tue Jan 21, 2020 9:03 pm

boomer_techie wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:03 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:26 pm
* Some of the "digital professionals" (not me) here might have corrections or additions to the above list.
First rule of crypto ownership: Never leave it sitting in an exchange. (Exchanges get hacked all the time...) Therefore:

11. Purchase a hardware "wallet".
12. Install a compatible software wallet application on your computer, or app on your phone/tablet.
12a. Install a "signature" checking application on your computer.
12b. Use the checker to check itself.
12c. Use the checker to verify the software wallet application is not hacked.
13. Use your hardware wallet to generate your own private crypto seed/keys. (Do not record the seed on anything electronic! It is however OK to chisel it into a piece of stone you'll bury in your back yard.)
14. Transfer your bitcoin from Coinbase to your hardware wallet.*

* Your crypto won't actually be "in" your hardware wallet, it will be in the cloud. The hardware wallet merely provides the keys needed to retrieve your crypto.
This will replace regular currency any day now.

Seriously, I thought the whole thing was that it was safer... Would the average person ever want or expect to do this just to be able to use currency? I don’t see how this is an improvement.

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by Captain_Video » Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:32 pm

So after I go through the 14 steps and acquire some bitcoin and it is sitting in my wallet, how do I use it? How do I buy something with it, or how do I send it to someone or send it to my secret bank account in the Cayman Islands?

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by peterinjapan » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:37 am

I've bought Viagra using Bitcoin, just for the experience. It was pretty painless.

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by boomer_techie » Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:53 am

Captain_Video wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:32 pm
So after I go through the 14 steps and acquire some bitcoin and it is sitting in my wallet, how do I use it? How do I buy something with it, or how do I send it to someone or send it to my secret bank account in the Cayman Islands?
It's actually easier than using a credit card. Your merchant gives you a "link" to paste into your wallet software. The software communicates with the hardware device (basically a USB dongle). You verify the destination address and amount shown on the hardware device and push a button. The device communicates back to your software, which then broadcasts the transaction on the 'net. A few seconds later, the merchant sees the transaction. And then you wait for the "miners" to process it. If you offered a high fee, they'll include it in the next block. With a low fee, they may get to it eventually.

If you want to pay your buddy, your buddy can give you an "address" to paste into the software.

No need for the Cayman account: You could exchange your bitcoin for a privacy coin (example: Monero) and now nobody can track you.

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by milo minderbinder » Wed Jan 22, 2020 12:55 pm

JonnyDVM wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 8:06 pm
There’s a fund GBTC. Grayscale bitcoin trust. It tracks bitcoin but you don’t need to mess around with the exchanges. Feels a lot easier than owning the actual stupid things and holding them in a virtual wallet or whatever with a password you put in a little glass bottle implanted under your skin for safety.
The tradeoff is that you will pay a significant premium over GBTC's actual holdings of bitcoin.

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by Nate79 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:35 pm

boomer_techie wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 1:53 am
Captain_Video wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:32 pm
So after I go through the 14 steps and acquire some bitcoin and it is sitting in my wallet, how do I use it? How do I buy something with it, or how do I send it to someone or send it to my secret bank account in the Cayman Islands?
It's actually easier than using a credit card. Your merchant gives you a "link" to paste into your wallet software. The software communicates with the hardware device (basically a USB dongle). You verify the destination address and amount shown on the hardware device and push a button. The device communicates back to your software, which then broadcasts the transaction on the 'net. A few seconds later, the merchant sees the transaction. And then you wait for the "miners" to process it. If you offered a high fee, they'll include it in the next block. With a low fee, they may get to it eventually.

If you want to pay your buddy, your buddy can give you an "address" to paste into the software.

No need for the Cayman account: You could exchange your bitcoin for a privacy coin (example: Monero) and now nobody can track you.
Perhaps the term "easier than using a credit card" means something different in bitcoin world??

boomer_techie
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by boomer_techie » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:04 pm

Nate79 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:35 pm
Perhaps the term "easier than using a credit card" means something different in bitcoin world??
Using a CC at a web site I don't trust (which is probably any site other than Amazon and Paypal):

1. Sign in to my CC's web site. (Type in login. Type in password.)
2. Click through several layers to finally access virtual card numbers.
2b. :!: 50% chance that Flash is out of date! Abort! Abort! Update Flash. Go back to Go.
3. My Internet connection is too slow - the VCN widget fails to load.
4. Click again to access virtual card numbers.
5. Click to create a new number.
6. Find my physical CC because they want to confirm my CVV.
7. Finally have a new number - scribble it down on a piece of paper.
8. Log out of the CC site.
9. Checkout on the merchant site...
10. Type in the virtual card number.
11. Type in the virtual CVV.
12. Type in the virtual expiration date.
13. Type in the "name on the card".
14. Type in my "billing address".
15. Finally paid!

With bitcoin using payment protocol:

1. Checkout on the merchant site.
2. Copy payment "link".
2. Plug hardware wallet into computer.
3. Launch wallet software.
4. Click send.
5. Paste "link".
6. Confirm on device.
7. Paid (in ~10 * n minutes) - didn't even need to click anything further on merchant site.

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by Nate79 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:20 pm

boomer_techie wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:04 pm
Nate79 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:35 pm
Perhaps the term "easier than using a credit card" means something different in bitcoin world??
Using a CC at a web site I don't trust (which is probably any site other than Amazon and Paypal):

1. Sign in to my CC's web site. (Type in login. Type in password.)
2. Click through several layers to finally access virtual card numbers.
2b. :!: 50% chance that Flash is out of date! Abort! Abort! Update Flash. Go back to Go.
3. My Internet connection is too slow - the VCN widget fails to load.
4. Click again to access virtual card numbers.
5. Click to create a new number.
6. Find my physical CC because they want to confirm my CVV.
7. Finally have a new number - scribble it down on a piece of paper.
8. Log out of the CC site.
9. Checkout on the merchant site...
10. Type in the virtual card number.
11. Type in the virtual CVV.
12. Type in the virtual expiration date.
13. Type in the "name on the card".
14. Type in my "billing address".
15. Finally paid!

With bitcoin using payment protocol:

1. Checkout on the merchant site.
2. Copy payment "link".
2. Plug hardware wallet into computer.
3. Launch wallet software.
4. Click send.
5. Paste "link".
6. Confirm on device.
7. Paid (in ~10 * n minutes) - didn't even need to click anything further on merchant site.
LOL.
Input CC. Done.
Zero liability.

Almost no one uses bitcoin because it's a joke. No use case.

perm
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by perm » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:23 pm

Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:48 pm

I was not aware that exchanges get hacked. Does Coinbase get hacked?

j :happy
@Sandtrap, Coinbase does a great job with security. That said, Bitcoin is ultimately a bearer asset, so if they are hacked or jeopardized (e.g. disgruntled employee) you generally have no recourse.

One way of further securing your bitcoin (keys) is to purchase a hardware "wallet." These "wallets" enable you to effectively self-custody the keys to these bearer assets, thus eliminating the risks of an exchange or custodian being jeopardized.

As an example, Shift Cryptosecurity has a high quality wallet. https://shiftcrypto.ch

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by annu » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:38 pm

Hardware wallet probably best bet, there are online wallets as well. Also tax reporting is kind of neat effort basis, as far as I saw it, have few friends who invested and dis bot hear a clear answer on what tax forms etc they got for filing. Coin base probably since it requires your I'd etc., might be more straightfoward

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by TropikThunder » Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:38 pm

Isn't the fact that someone is asking how to buy bitcoin here on Bogleheads a sign that they shouldn't be buying bitcoin?

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by F150HD » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:19 pm

Captain_Video wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:32 pm
So after I go through the 14 steps and acquire some bitcoin and it is sitting in my wallet, how do I use it? How do I buy something with it, or how do I send it to someone or send it to my secret bank account in the Cayman Islands?
Have you tried this option?

Image

TomCat96
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by TomCat96 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:34 pm

Nate79 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:20 pm
boomer_techie wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:04 pm
Nate79 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 2:35 pm
Perhaps the term "easier than using a credit card" means something different in bitcoin world??
Using a CC at a web site I don't trust (which is probably any site other than Amazon and Paypal):

1. Sign in to my CC's web site. (Type in login. Type in password.)
2. Click through several layers to finally access virtual card numbers.
2b. :!: 50% chance that Flash is out of date! Abort! Abort! Update Flash. Go back to Go.
3. My Internet connection is too slow - the VCN widget fails to load.
4. Click again to access virtual card numbers.
5. Click to create a new number.
6. Find my physical CC because they want to confirm my CVV.
7. Finally have a new number - scribble it down on a piece of paper.
8. Log out of the CC site.
9. Checkout on the merchant site...
10. Type in the virtual card number.
11. Type in the virtual CVV.
12. Type in the virtual expiration date.
13. Type in the "name on the card".
14. Type in my "billing address".
15. Finally paid!

With bitcoin using payment protocol:

1. Checkout on the merchant site.
2. Copy payment "link".
2. Plug hardware wallet into computer.
3. Launch wallet software.
4. Click send.
5. Paste "link".
6. Confirm on device.
7. Paid (in ~10 * n minutes) - didn't even need to click anything further on merchant site.
LOL.
Input CC. Done.
Zero liability.

Almost no one uses bitcoin because it's a joke. No use case.
What I disagree with on this site is the evaluation of the merits of bitcoin based on its attempt to serve as a currency. And with that specific purpose in mind as a currency, there is a bias towards small transactions.--A bucket of chicken, a cup of coffee. If bitcoin can't do this, it's useless. I disagree, not with whether or not bitcoin is actually useful, but in such rationale.

What if I said, the dollar is useless. I can't seem to move one hundred million dollars out of the country. I will get stopped, searched, and therefore the dollar is useless.

Thus far history has shown that bitcoin's most compelling usage is for "illicit" usage. Again, I am not going to comment on the merits of this.

But suppose you live in a dictatorship. How can you flee your country while retaining some semblence of your wealth? You cannot run away with your land, you cannot run away with your cash (you will be searched), you cannot carry gold on your person (it will be confiscated).

Answer. Bitcoin.

What if I want to move 100 million dollars with me wherever i go? Can cash do that? No.
What if I want to transfer 100 million from one party to another? Can I do that with cash without it being flagged? No.

In evaluating its merits as a currency, I would argue once your numbers are big enough, bitcoin operates better as a currency than dollars, yen, rmb, euros, etc.

Indeed in the 1 million, 10 million, 100 million, 1000 million range, currency ceases to function as currency, and bitcoin is arguably more free.


I don't know if bitcoin is the future, and I don't advocate for it. But Is has raised my attention that to certain parties in a pay-grade higher than mine, it has utility.
Last edited by TomCat96 on Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:35 pm

to paraphrase Jim Gaffigan:

open wallet. take out money. put directly into toilet.

(hot pocket!)
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cochlearboy
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by cochlearboy » Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:56 pm

TomCat96 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:34 pm
In evaluating its merits as a currency, I would argue once your numbers are big enough, bitcoin operates better as a currency than dollars, yen, rmb, euros, etc.

Indeed in the 1 million, 10 million, 100 million, 1000 million range, currency ceases to function as currency, and bitcoin is arguably more free.

I don't know if bitcoin is the future, and I don't advocate for it. But Is has raised my attention that to certain parties in a pay-grade higher than mine, it has utility.
You make a really good point about bitcoin here. However, I stopped paying attention to the bitcoin scene after Mt. Gox. Do you know whether there are legal exchanges for transactions in this amount?

The way I understand it is that if one were to try to exchange 100 million or more in bitcoin in a us exchange, the IRS would be after you to show where you got the $ to buy 100 million worth of bitcoin. Right?

TomCat96
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by TomCat96 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:03 pm

cochlearboy wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:56 pm
TomCat96 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:34 pm
In evaluating its merits as a currency, I would argue once your numbers are big enough, bitcoin operates better as a currency than dollars, yen, rmb, euros, etc.

Indeed in the 1 million, 10 million, 100 million, 1000 million range, currency ceases to function as currency, and bitcoin is arguably more free.

I don't know if bitcoin is the future, and I don't advocate for it. But Is has raised my attention that to certain parties in a pay-grade higher than mine, it has utility.
You make a really good point about bitcoin here. However, I stopped paying attention to the bitcoin scene after Mt. Gox. Do you know whether there are legal exchanges for transactions in this amount?

The way I understand it is that if one were to try to exchange 100 million or more in bitcoin in a us exchange, the IRS would be after you to show where you got the $ to buy 100 million worth of bitcoin. Right?

I wrote elsewhere that going through an exchange will cause you to lose all anonymity.
For those looking to purchase 5 or 10 dollars worth of bitcoin, it's no big deal.

But for those looking to exchange 100M of bitcoin, it is a big deal.

Individuals with a sufficiently high bankroll however are not necessarily constrained to use exchanges.


Do you know whether there are legal exchanges for transactions in this amount?
I do not. But this is a moot question. Someone truly needing anonymity will not go through such exchanges.

Where the government can regulate, it has. Governments control the final step from cryptocurrency into fiat, and the first step: fiat into crypto.
The steps in between however, are largely unregulated.

Party A that accepts crypto desiring to transact with party B that accepts crypto is an example of a transaction that cannot really be regulated.

Party A now wanting US dollars for his crypto/bitcoin. That is something that will not escape heavy scrutiny.

As I said before I do not advocate for bitcoin.

cochlearboy
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by cochlearboy » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:14 pm

TomCat96 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:03 pm

The steps in between however, are largely unregulated.
I see, this is exactly where the crux is.

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by TomCat96 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:24 pm

cochlearboy wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:14 pm
TomCat96 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 8:03 pm

The steps in between however, are largely unregulated.
I see, this is exactly where the crux is.

Once you are in crypto, it is difficult if not impossible for your transactions to be pinned down. The bitcoin network exists globally. Same for the Ethereum network. These networks cannot be shutdown anymore than any foreign government can shut down the global Internet.

While bitcoin and other blockchain ledgers will record all transactions, there are "other means" of ensuring your anonymity.

Those who remain in crypto can get around pretty easily. I suppose if you are in a sufficiently high pay grade this is of substantial value to you.

The crux I would argue is the conversion of the 100M to cryptos, and the reacquisition of the 100M from your crypto. Who would agree to such a thing? Exchanges would, after they red flag you to their governments.

Outside of exchanges who would agree to convert fiat to crypto or crypto to fiat? Nobody beyond the private parties you encounter. Why not? Because anyone public will have to answer to their respective sovereign authorities and would surely be subject to KYC laws.

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by Ferdinand2014 » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:04 pm

I would have no idea how to buy bitcoin, because I would never place my money in such a speculative non-productive asset.
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by nisiprius » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:51 pm

F150HD wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:19 pm
Captain_Video wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:32 pm
So after I go through the 14 steps and acquire some bitcoin and it is sitting in my wallet, how do I use it? How do I buy something with it, or how do I send it to someone or send it to my secret bank account in the Cayman Islands?
Have you tried this option? KFC Canada is accepting bitcoin for fried chicken
I. Don't. Believe. It.

Dollars to doughnuts this is a limited pilot project, or an unannounced experiment that KFC failed to restrict access to and someone discovered they could use... or something of the sort... Show me a press release from KFC Canada confirming it, not a link to a cryptocurrency-promoting site.

Actually, now that I look, the coindesk site is perfectly clear. It's dated 2018, at the height of the bubble when bitcoin was in the mainstream news, and it says
The limited-time marketing move sees the Canada-based chain advertising “The Bitcoin Bucket” complete with a Facebook-based live-tracker of the standing price for the product, which works out to roughly 20 Canadian dollars depending on the exchange rate with bitcoin. That said, you can’t exactly walk into a KFC location in Canada and pay with crypto at the cash register.

Instead, the company is accepting Bitcoin via BitPay as one of the options through an online check-out page.
And there is currently no such option on the checkout page. Not, that's not a popup menu, the only option is "pay online by credit card." So, no, you can't "try this option." And, you tell me: having gone to all the trouble it took to integrate BitPay onto their website, why did they remove it after the promotion was over?

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by am » Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:56 pm

Ferdinand2014 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:04 pm
I would have no idea how to buy bitcoin, because I would never place my money in such a speculative non-productive asset.
That’s a good boglehead :D

But the majority of people in the world are not like you and will keep bitcoin going for generations to come. :sharebeer

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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by nisiprius » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:01 pm

TomCat96 wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:34 pm
...What I disagree with on this site is the evaluation of the merits of bitcoin based on its attempt to serve as a currency. And with that specific purpose in mind as a currency, there is a bias towards small transactions.--A bucket of chicken, a cup of coffee. If bitcoin can't do this, it's useless. I disagree, not with whether or not bitcoin is actually useful, but in such rationale...
That was bitcoin's stated rationale. It was spelled out quite specifically in Satoshi's paper. The stated use case was "small casual transactions," and making them cheaper than credit card processing fees:
The cost of mediation increases transaction costs, limiting the minimum practical transaction size and cutting off the possibility for small casual transactions, and there is a broader cost in the loss of ability to make non-reversible payments for non-reversible services. With the possibility of reversal, the need for trust spreads. Merchants must be wary of their customers, hassling them for more information than they would otherwise need. A certain percentage of fraud is accepted as unavoidable. These costs and payment uncertainties can be avoided in person by using physical currency, but no mechanism exists to make payments over a communications channel without a trusted party.
It was supposed to be a tradeoff. The claim was that it is expensive to provide a mechanism for disputing bills, and that disputing bills requires a trusted third party. The tradeoff was supposed to be situations where you had no need to dispute a bill and could therefore accept non-reversible transactions, and avoid the supposedly high costs incurred by reversibility.

Bitcoin was supposed to be like cash, but usable over the internet. "Small casual transactions" were its whole raison d'etre. And it was supposed to be better for this purpose than credit cards or PayPal.
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F150HD
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by F150HD » Wed Jan 22, 2020 10:17 pm

nisiprius wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 9:51 pm
F150HD wrote:
Wed Jan 22, 2020 7:19 pm
Captain_Video wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 11:32 pm
So after I go through the 14 steps and acquire some bitcoin and it is sitting in my wallet, how do I use it? How do I buy something with it, or how do I send it to someone or send it to my secret bank account in the Cayman Islands?
Have you tried this option? KFC Canada is accepting bitcoin for fried chicken
I. Don't. Believe. It.

....
yes, article was 2018, and I found it somewhat odd.

This company apparently accepts bitcoin. Has a DE address, unless its a scam site.

https://flowersussr.com/en-payment-ru-oplata/

In 2014, FlowersUSSR became the first international flowers delivery service to start accepting Bitcoin and Litecoin as a form of payment. Since then, customers can send flowers with Bitcoin. As of 2017, FlowersUSSR is the first and only flowers delivery service that accepts various other forms of cryptocurrencies. So now you can not only order flowers with Bitcoin but also you can order flowers with Etherium, Bitcoin Cash, Bitcoin Gold, Dash and other cryptocurrencies. FlowersUSSR is your center for ordering flowers online with cryptocurrency.

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EnjoyIt
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Re: How Do I Buy Some BitCoin?

Post by EnjoyIt » Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:33 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 7:48 pm
boomer_techie wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 6:03 pm
Sandtrap wrote:
Tue Jan 21, 2020 1:26 pm
* Some of the "digital professionals" (not me) here might have corrections or additions to the above list.
First rule of crypto ownership: Never leave it sitting in an exchange. (Exchanges get hacked all the time...) Therefore:

11. Purchase a hardware "wallet".
12. Install a compatible software wallet application on your computer, or app on your phone/tablet.
12a. Install a "signature" checking application on your computer.
12b. Use the checker to check itself.
12c. Use the checker to verify the software wallet application is not hacked.
13. Use your hardware wallet to generate your own private crypto seed/keys. (Do not record the seed on anything electronic! It is however OK to chisel it into a piece of stone you'll bury in your back yard.)
14. Transfer your bitcoin from Coinbase to your hardware wallet.*

* Your crypto won't actually be "in" your hardware wallet, it will be in the cloud. The hardware wallet merely provides the keys needed to retrieve your crypto.
Great points!
Thanks for posting.

I was not aware that exchanges get hacked. Does Coinbase get hacked?

j :happy
To my knowledge not yet. Who knows what the future holds. So far just about every coin exchange has had some form issue regarding trustworthiness or being hacked. That is why I am skeptical of Coinbase. One day...One day.
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