Adding SS income to Portfolio Visualizer?

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Topic Author
cognovimus
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:07 pm

Adding SS income to Portfolio Visualizer?

Post by cognovimus » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:43 pm

I'd like the Portfolio Visualizer MC analysis to include our SS income and not just draw down my portfolio. (Nothing to do with the older thread that debated SS as a bond/fixed asset.)

Rather than add a spreadsheet to link to, I added it as a "contribution + % increase" under Financial Goals. Is that the simplest way to do it? Any pitfalls I've overlooked?

TIA

stlutz
Posts: 5336
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:08 am

Re: Adding SS income to Portfolio Visualizer?

Post by stlutz » Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:55 pm

Use Firecalc--it has a lot more inputs and ways to work with the data: https://www.firecalc.com/

Garfieldthecat
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:48 am

Re: Adding SS income to Portfolio Visualizer?

Post by Garfieldthecat » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:01 pm

I just used the "contribution" in the drop down, and then clicked on the inflation adjusted box.

Topic Author
cognovimus
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:07 pm

Re: Adding SS income to Portfolio Visualizer?

Post by cognovimus » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:38 am

stlutz wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 5:55 pm
Use Firecalc--it has a lot more inputs and ways to work with the data: https://www.firecalc.com/
Two questions about Firecalc:

1. Do I need to gross up "spending" for taxes? Or is there another place to input a projected tax rate?

2. Portfolio Visualizer has a feature that allows you to project up to 10 years of "worst" returns at the beginning of the simulation period, kind of a stress test for SRR. Does Firecalc have something similar?

Topic Author
cognovimus
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:07 pm

Re: Adding SS income to Portfolio Visualizer?

Post by cognovimus » Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:46 am

Garfieldthecat wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:01 pm
I just used the "contribution" in the drop down, and then clicked on the inflation adjusted box.
Thanks...that's easier than me trying to guess.

But as a follow-up question, if you use this option, might the SS benefits be projected to get lower? For example, from 2008-2009, the average CPI declined. I think the SS increase has been 0 before, but it doesn't normally decline, right?

MotoTrojan
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Joined: Wed Feb 01, 2017 8:39 pm

Re: Adding SS income to Portfolio Visualizer?

Post by MotoTrojan » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:18 am

Why not just subtract your SS income from your expenses and have PV evaluate a withdrawal for the shortcoming?

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Wiggums
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Re: Adding SS income to Portfolio Visualizer?

Post by Wiggums » Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:19 am

MotoTrojan wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:18 am
Why not just subtract your SS income from your expenses and have PV evaluate a withdrawal for the shortcoming?
That is what I do.

22twain
Posts: 1997
Joined: Thu May 10, 2012 5:42 pm

Re: Adding SS income to Portfolio Visualizer?

Post by 22twain » Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:29 am

cognovimus wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:38 am
Two questions about Firecalc:

1. Do I need to gross up "spending" for taxes? Or is there another place to input a projected tax rate?
You need to include taxes as part of your total expenses. Firecalc doesn't try to project taxes, presumably because different people can have widely different tax situations. Different proportions of taxable versus tax-deferred versus tax-free accounts, and different strategies for withdrawing from them. Plus Social Security and possibly a pension.
My investing princiPLEs do not include absolutely preserving princiPAL.

Garfieldthecat
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:48 am

Re: Adding SS income to Portfolio Visualizer?

Post by Garfieldthecat » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:49 am

cognovimus wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:46 am
Garfieldthecat wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:01 pm
I just used the "contribution" in the drop down, and then clicked on the inflation adjusted box.
Thanks...that's easier than me trying to guess.

But as a follow-up question, if you use this option, might the SS benefits be projected to get lower? For example, from 2008-2009, the average CPI declined. I think the SS increase has been 0 before, but it doesn't normally decline, right?
I'm a ways away from SS, so haven't really checked, but I am pretty sure SS never goes down. SS might not get a COLA increase, but I don't think SS has ever reduced it's payment from year to year.

Topic Author
cognovimus
Posts: 66
Joined: Sat Aug 10, 2019 1:07 pm

Re: Adding SS income to Portfolio Visualizer?

Post by cognovimus » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:48 am

Garfieldthecat wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:49 am
cognovimus wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:46 am
Garfieldthecat wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:01 pm
I just used the "contribution" in the drop down, and then clicked on the inflation adjusted box.
Thanks...that's easier than me trying to guess.

But as a follow-up question, if you use this option, might the SS benefits be projected to get lower? For example, from 2008-2009, the average CPI declined. I think the SS increase has been 0 before, but it doesn't normally decline, right?
I'm a ways away from SS, so haven't really checked, but I am pretty sure SS never goes down. SS might not get a COLA increase, but I don't think SS has ever reduced it's payment from year to year.
Right, apart from possible future cuts across the board, SS might not always correlate with CPI, which can be negative. So I'm still trying to sort out how to model for it. We aren't claiming yet, and we'll claim at different times. I'm hoping to keep it simple; it could be I just need to work more with Portfolio Visualizer.

Garfieldthecat
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Dec 24, 2018 10:48 am

Re: Adding SS income to Portfolio Visualizer?

Post by Garfieldthecat » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:23 am

cognovimus wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:48 am
Garfieldthecat wrote:
Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:49 am
cognovimus wrote:
Mon Sep 09, 2019 8:46 am
Garfieldthecat wrote:
Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:01 pm
I just used the "contribution" in the drop down, and then clicked on the inflation adjusted box.
Thanks...that's easier than me trying to guess.

But as a follow-up question, if you use this option, might the SS benefits be projected to get lower? For example, from 2008-2009, the average CPI declined. I think the SS increase has been 0 before, but it doesn't normally decline, right?
I'm a ways away from SS, so haven't really checked, but I am pretty sure SS never goes down. SS might not get a COLA increase, but I don't think SS has ever reduced it's payment from year to year.
Right, apart from possible future cuts across the board, SS might not always correlate with CPI, which can be negative. So I'm still trying to sort out how to model for it. We aren't claiming yet, and we'll claim at different times. I'm hoping to keep it simple; it could be I just need to work more with Portfolio Visualizer.
I've used Firecalc, PV, and cfiresim to model retirement, and all have come out roughly the same (like ~5% of so).

For PV, I tried to keep it simple, and used only one stage (kept AA constant). My wife and I will claim SS at 70 at different times as well. I put in a single withdrawal amount (my desired retirement income that includes tax) indexed to inflation, and then added two different contributions, for my SS and my wife's SS, both indexed to inflation. That seemed to work for me.

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