FIRE Drawdown Plan

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Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:34 pm

Hi all. I'm looking into going the FIRE route with a target number of 700-800k and a planned 4% SWR. Planning to move abroad to a LCOL area.

I'm 41, SO is 51. Would be looking at SS of 1500/mo for SO in 16 yrs, 1000/mo in SS for me in 25 years.

Currently have about 250 in Traditional IRA in Vanguard Target Date Fund 2040. Will likely move this.

Have about 15 in Google/Apple.

Have about 95 in different High Yield Savings Accounts making around 5%.

Will be selling house to moving and have about 500-600 to invest.

My main question is how to reallocate funds and invest funds to begin FIRE as early as Jan 2020. FIRE seemed like it would be much further out but the idea of being able to do geo arbitrage makes it much more feasible so we're trying to work with the timeline that we have.

Also wanted to add that we'll likely pursue other income sources as well. Digital nomad, tourism, etc. Something. I also do a lot with credit cards and bank bonuses and that has been good for a few K in value a year.

Thanks so much for all help and advice!

Edited to add some info but this is pretty much the whole picture.
Last edited by olympia_t on Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:47 pm, edited 2 times in total.

stlutz
Posts: 5463
Joined: Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:08 am

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by stlutz » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:11 pm

Couple of questions: How old are you and do you intend for your move to be permanent or temporary?

Day9
Posts: 820
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2012 6:22 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by Day9 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:13 pm

Like the above poster said, you are leaving out too much information for us to reasonably respond. Please see this guideline post for how to format your posts and edit yours to match it: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212
I'm just a fan of the person I got my user name from

coffeeblack
Posts: 122
Joined: Wed Jun 19, 2019 10:20 am

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by coffeeblack » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:17 pm

olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:34 pm
Hi all. I'm looking into going the FIRE route with a target number of 700-800k and a planned 4% SWR. Planning to move abroad to a LCOL area.

Currently have about 250 in Traditional IRA in Vanguard Target Date Fund 2040. Will likely move this.

Have about 15 in Google/Apple.

Have about 95 in different High Yield Savings Accounts making around 5%.

Will be selling house to moving and have about 500-600 to invest.

My main question is how to reallocate funds and invest funds to begin FIRE as early as Jan 2020. FIRE seemed like it would be much further out but the idea of being able to do geo arbitrage makes it much more feasible so we're trying to work with the timeline that we have.

Thanks so much for all help and advice!
What high yield savings account is making 5%

angelescrest
Posts: 1014
Joined: Tue May 27, 2008 10:48 am
Location: Texas

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by angelescrest » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:22 pm

coffeeblack wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:17 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:34 pm
Hi all. I'm looking into going the FIRE route with a target number of 700-800k and a planned 4% SWR. Planning to move abroad to a LCOL area.

Currently have about 250 in Traditional IRA in Vanguard Target Date Fund 2040. Will likely move this.

Have about 15 in Google/Apple.

Have about 95 in different High Yield Savings Accounts making around 5%.

Will be selling house to moving and have about 500-600 to invest.

My main question is how to reallocate funds and invest funds to begin FIRE as early as Jan 2020. FIRE seemed like it would be much further out but the idea of being able to do geo arbitrage makes it much more feasible so we're trying to work with the timeline that we have.

Thanks so much for all help and advice!
What high yield savings account is making 5%
My thoughts exactly.

User avatar
Sandtrap
Posts: 8465
Joined: Sat Nov 26, 2016 6:32 pm
Location: Hawaii No Ka Oi , N. Arizona

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by Sandtrap » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:24 pm

How many years from FIRE to age 90?
Anticipated annual expenses during this time?
Anticipated annual income stream during this time?
Anticipated income stream sources during this time?

j :happy
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:29 pm

To 90 - me 50, SO 40.
Anticipated annual income - working off of 28,000 based on 700k/4%
In 16 yrs would have 1500/mo SS for SO. in 25 yrs would have 1000/mo SS for me. Contemplating whether or not to draw at 62 instead.

Possibility of some inherited money. Would possibly be 500-750 depending on how life goes. If long term care is needed could be gone.

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:30 pm

stlutz wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:11 pm
Couple of questions: How old are you and do you intend for your move to be permanent or temporary?
41 and SO is 51. Thinking permanent but definitely not sure. And not positive on location yet.

delamer
Posts: 9274
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by delamer » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:34 pm

olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:29 pm
To 90 - me 50, SO 40.
Anticipated annual income - working off of 28,000 based on 700k/4%
In 16 yrs would have 1500/mo SS for SO. in 25 yrs would have 1000/mo SS for me. Contemplating whether or not to draw at 62 instead.

Possibility of some inherited money. Would possibly be 500-750 depending on how life goes. If long term care is needed could be gone.
I think you have your SS numbers backward. Do your numbers take into account that you will not have 35 years of earnings?

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:36 pm

coffeeblack wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:17 pm

What high yield savings account is making 5%
Have money socked away in many, many accounts. About 25k in insight cards and netspend cards. Some in t-mobile accounts and the rest tied on in Bank bonus accounts, e.g. depost 5k for 90 days for $300. I keep moving this money around for FDIC insured returns.

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:39 pm

delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:34 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:29 pm
To 90 - me 50, SO 40.
Anticipated annual income - working off of 28,000 based on 700k/4%
In 16 yrs would have 1500/mo SS for SO. in 25 yrs would have 1000/mo SS for me. Contemplating whether or not to draw at 62 instead.

Possibility of some inherited money. Would possibly be 500-750 depending on how life goes. If long term care is needed could be gone.
I think you have your SS numbers backward. Do your numbers take into account that you will not have 35 years of earnings?
Nope. SO will be at full retirement age in 16 yrs, me in 25. Yes, I ran the calculations with actual numbers of earnings. Did 420 months of earnings/non earnings.

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:45 pm

oops...
Last edited by olympia_t on Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

delamer
Posts: 9274
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by delamer » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:46 pm

olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:39 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:34 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:29 pm
To 90 - me 50, SO 40.
Anticipated annual income - working off of 28,000 based on 700k/4%
In 16 yrs would have 1500/mo SS for SO. in 25 yrs would have 1000/mo SS for me. Contemplating whether or not to draw at 62 instead.

Possibility of some inherited money. Would possibly be 500-750 depending on how life goes. If long term care is needed could be gone.
I think you have your SS numbers backward. Do your numbers take into account that you will not have 35 years of earnings?
Nope. SO will be at full retirement age in 16 yrs, me in 25. Yes, I ran the calculations with actual numbers of earnings. Did 420 months of earnings/non earnings.
Ah, you mean years until age 90, not current age.

That’s confusing...
Last edited by delamer on Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:47 pm

delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:46 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:39 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:34 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:29 pm
To 90 - me 50, SO 40.
Anticipated annual income - working off of 28,000 based on 700k/4%
In 16 yrs would have 1500/mo SS for SO. in 25 yrs would have 1000/mo SS for me. Contemplating whether or not to draw at 62 instead.

Possibility of some inherited money. Would possibly be 500-750 depending on how life goes. If long term care is needed could be gone.
I think you have your SS numbers backward. Do your numbers take into account that you will not have 35 years of earnings?
Nope. SO will be at full retirement age in 16 yrs, me in 25. Yes, I ran the calculations with actual numbers of earnings. Did 420 months of earnings/non earnings.
If SO is 40 now, then how is SO reaching FRA at age 56?
Sorry, original question was posed as how many years until 90. Thanks for helping out.
Last edited by olympia_t on Thu Aug 29, 2019 11:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:48 pm

delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:46 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:39 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:34 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:29 pm
To 90 - me 50, SO 40.
Anticipated annual income - working off of 28,000 based on 700k/4%
In 16 yrs would have 1500/mo SS for SO. in 25 yrs would have 1000/mo SS for me. Contemplating whether or not to draw at 62 instead.

Possibility of some inherited money. Would possibly be 500-750 depending on how life goes. If long term care is needed could be gone.
I think you have your SS numbers backward. Do your numbers take into account that you will not have 35 years of earnings?
Nope. SO will be at full retirement age in 16 yrs, me in 25. Yes, I ran the calculations with actual numbers of earnings. Did 420 months of earnings/non earnings.
Ah, you mean years until age 90, not current age.

That’s confusing...
Sorry, just trying to answer your question. We are 41 and 51.

HEDGEFUNDIE
Posts: 3631
Joined: Sun Oct 22, 2017 2:06 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:51 pm

olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:36 pm
coffeeblack wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:17 pm

What high yield savings account is making 5%
Have money socked away in many, many accounts. About 25k in insight cards and netspend cards. Some in t-mobile accounts and the rest tied on in Bank bonus accounts, e.g. depost 5k for 90 days for $300. I keep moving this money around for FDIC insured returns.
Insight and netspend have not paid 5% for months

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:52 pm

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:51 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:36 pm
coffeeblack wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:17 pm

What high yield savings account is making 5%
Have money socked away in many, many accounts. About 25k in insight cards and netspend cards. Some in t-mobile accounts and the rest tied on in Bank bonus accounts, e.g. depost 5k for 90 days for $300. I keep moving this money around for FDIC insured returns.
Insight and netspend have not paid 5% for months

They definitely still are. Some accounts were shut down but not all.

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Wiggums
Posts: 1903
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:02 am

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by Wiggums » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:53 pm

First post said, “I'm 41, SO is 51. Would be looking at SS of 1500/mo for SO in 16 yrs, 1000/mo in SS for me in 25 years.”

Hopefully the SS calculation took into account 16 years of zeros.

delamer
Posts: 9274
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by delamer » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:54 pm

Curious as to what locations you’ve identified that would allow you to live comfortably in $28,000/year, including paying for medical care?

I don’t doubt there are some.

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:55 pm

Wiggums wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:53 pm
First post said, “I'm 41, SO is 51. Would be looking at SS of 1500/mo for SO in 16 yrs, 1000/mo in SS for me in 25 years.”

Hopefully the SS calculation took into account 16 years of zeros.
Covered that already, yes.

Wondering if anyone has any ideas for the question at hand? Investment and draw down suggestions?

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:57 pm

delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:54 pm
Curious as to what locations you’ve identified that would allow you to live comfortably in $28,000/year, including paying for medical care?

I don’t doubt there are some.
We're kind of going out on a limb on this one. Some folks do it in the US but we're looking abroad. Currently Portugal, Spain, Italy are on the list. Belize, Costa Rica, Mexico, Guatemala etc are also options. Many also like South East Asia. Healthcare is actually one of the reasons. If you establish residency in some countries you are eligible for their heathcare. Doesn't happen immediately in all places though.

flyingaway
Posts: 2531
Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 10:19 am

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by flyingaway » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:00 pm

There is a person who calls himself Dividend Guy or something similar. He has a portfolio of about $300,000 and moved to Thailand and claims to be FIREed. He has a blog which can be searched.

delamer
Posts: 9274
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by delamer » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:02 pm

olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:55 pm
Wiggums wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:53 pm
First post said, “I'm 41, SO is 51. Would be looking at SS of 1500/mo for SO in 16 yrs, 1000/mo in SS for me in 25 years.”

Hopefully the SS calculation took into account 16 years of zeros.
Covered that already, yes.

Wondering if anyone has any ideas for the question at hand? Investment and draw down suggestions?
If you are subject to US taxes, then generally you’d want to drawdown the taxable account first and then the IRA.

I don’t know if that advice is different for an expat.

I also don’t know if there are restrictions on where you need to keep your assets to access them if you live abroad.

lostdog
Posts: 2036
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2016 2:15 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by lostdog » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:07 pm

flyingaway wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:00 pm
There is a person who calls himself Dividend Guy or something similar. He has a portfolio of about $300,000 and moved to Thailand and claims to be FIREed. He has a blog which can be searched.
Mr free at 33.
VTWAX and chill.

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:09 pm

delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:02 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:55 pm
Wiggums wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:53 pm
First post said, “I'm 41, SO is 51. Would be looking at SS of 1500/mo for SO in 16 yrs, 1000/mo in SS for me in 25 years.”

Hopefully the SS calculation took into account 16 years of zeros.
Covered that already, yes.

Wondering if anyone has any ideas for the question at hand? Investment and draw down suggestions?
If you are subject to US taxes, then generally you’d want to drawdown the taxable account first and then the IRA.

I don’t know if that advice is different for an expat.

I also don’t know if there are restrictions on where you need to keep your assets to access them if you live abroad.
My "home base" is reddit. Many there recommend a high percentage of stocks and many seem to like VTSAX, etc. Any thoughts particular investments? Since much is coming from house equity it's not invested now.

Yeah, the expat part makes it a little tough. Portugal have exemptions for certain visas but it looks like dividends and interest are exempt where as profits from sales of stocks and bonds are taxed (at 28%!).

A lot will probably depend on where we could end up. Some countries require that you have proof of funds/are retired and in lieu of a pension require something like an annuity. All of this is/might be happening faster than i had planned so I'm definitely trying to learn as much as I can.

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:11 pm

lostdog wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:07 pm
flyingaway wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:00 pm
There is a person who calls himself Dividend Guy or something similar. He has a portfolio of about $300,000 and moved to Thailand and claims to be FIREed. He has a blog which can be searched.
Mr free at 33.
Cool. I'm most familiar with Mr. Money Mustache. I'm a part of the FIRE community on reddit so spend a lot of time reading about how people are getting there. So much focuses on how to get there and not to do when you are there though!

delamer
Posts: 9274
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by delamer » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:17 pm

olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:09 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:02 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:55 pm
Wiggums wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:53 pm
First post said, “I'm 41, SO is 51. Would be looking at SS of 1500/mo for SO in 16 yrs, 1000/mo in SS for me in 25 years.”

Hopefully the SS calculation took into account 16 years of zeros.
Covered that already, yes.

Wondering if anyone has any ideas for the question at hand? Investment and draw down suggestions?
If you are subject to US taxes, then generally you’d want to drawdown the taxable account first and then the IRA.

I don’t know if that advice is different for an expat.

I also don’t know if there are restrictions on where you need to keep your assets to access them if you live abroad.
My "home base" is reddit. Many there recommend a high percentage of stocks and many seem to like VTSAX, etc. Any thoughts particular investments? Since much is coming from house equity it's not invested now.

Yeah, the expat part makes it a little tough. Portugal have exemptions for certain visas but it looks like dividends and interest are exempt where as profits from sales of stocks and bonds are taxed (at 28%!).

A lot will probably depend on where we could end up. Some countries require that you have proof of funds/are retired and in lieu of a pension require something like an annuity. All of this is/might be happening faster than i had planned so I'm definitely trying to learn as much as I can.
Given that requirements vary by location, then it seems you’d want to nail down the location before you make a decision about the best way to handle your investments.

If you sell your house before you decide on your new location, then keep the proceeds in a high yield savings account until you know what your new country requires.

Good luck.

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:20 pm

delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:17 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:09 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:02 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:55 pm
Wiggums wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:53 pm
First post said, “I'm 41, SO is 51. Would be looking at SS of 1500/mo for SO in 16 yrs, 1000/mo in SS for me in 25 years.”

Hopefully the SS calculation took into account 16 years of zeros.
Covered that already, yes.

Wondering if anyone has any ideas for the question at hand? Investment and draw down suggestions?
If you are subject to US taxes, then generally you’d want to drawdown the taxable account first and then the IRA.

I don’t know if that advice is different for an expat.

I also don’t know if there are restrictions on where you need to keep your assets to access them if you live abroad.
My "home base" is reddit. Many there recommend a high percentage of stocks and many seem to like VTSAX, etc. Any thoughts particular investments? Since much is coming from house equity it's not invested now.

Yeah, the expat part makes it a little tough. Portugal have exemptions for certain visas but it looks like dividends and interest are exempt where as profits from sales of stocks and bonds are taxed (at 28%!).

A lot will probably depend on where we could end up. Some countries require that you have proof of funds/are retired and in lieu of a pension require something like an annuity. All of this is/might be happening faster than i had planned so I'm definitely trying to learn as much as I can.
Given that requirements vary by location, then it seems you’d want to nail down the location before you make a decision about the best way to handle your investments.

If you sell your house before you decide on your new location, then keep the proceeds in a high yield savings account until you know what your new country requires.

Good luck.
Yeah, good point. Most high yields have really crazy limits, etc. 5k max, etc. With that in mind, any other ideas on what one might do with a large amount for a short period? Thanks.

delamer
Posts: 9274
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 6:13 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by delamer » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:33 pm

olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:20 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:17 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:09 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:02 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:55 pm


Covered that already, yes.

Wondering if anyone has any ideas for the question at hand? Investment and draw down suggestions?
If you are subject to US taxes, then generally you’d want to drawdown the taxable account first and then the IRA.

I don’t know if that advice is different for an expat.

I also don’t know if there are restrictions on where you need to keep your assets to access them if you live abroad.
My "home base" is reddit. Many there recommend a high percentage of stocks and many seem to like VTSAX, etc. Any thoughts particular investments? Since much is coming from house equity it's not invested now.

Yeah, the expat part makes it a little tough. Portugal have exemptions for certain visas but it looks like dividends and interest are exempt where as profits from sales of stocks and bonds are taxed (at 28%!).

A lot will probably depend on where we could end up. Some countries require that you have proof of funds/are retired and in lieu of a pension require something like an annuity. All of this is/might be happening faster than i had planned so I'm definitely trying to learn as much as I can.
Given that requirements vary by location, then it seems you’d want to nail down the location before you make a decision about the best way to handle your investments.

If you sell your house before you decide on your new location, then keep the proceeds in a high yield savings account until you know what your new country requires.

Good luck.
Yeah, good point. Most high yields have really crazy limits, etc. 5k max, etc. With that in mind, any other ideas on what one might do with a large amount for a short period? Thanks.
Bank money market funds usually pay a higher rate for larger balances.

Or you could go with one of these: https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... nd-returns

Topic Author
olympia_t
Posts: 32
Joined: Thu Aug 29, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:36 pm

delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:33 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:20 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:17 pm
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:09 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 8:02 pm


If you are subject to US taxes, then generally you’d want to drawdown the taxable account first and then the IRA.

I don’t know if that advice is different for an expat.

I also don’t know if there are restrictions on where you need to keep your assets to access them if you live abroad.
My "home base" is reddit. Many there recommend a high percentage of stocks and many seem to like VTSAX, etc. Any thoughts particular investments? Since much is coming from house equity it's not invested now.

Yeah, the expat part makes it a little tough. Portugal have exemptions for certain visas but it looks like dividends and interest are exempt where as profits from sales of stocks and bonds are taxed (at 28%!).

A lot will probably depend on where we could end up. Some countries require that you have proof of funds/are retired and in lieu of a pension require something like an annuity. All of this is/might be happening faster than i had planned so I'm definitely trying to learn as much as I can.
Given that requirements vary by location, then it seems you’d want to nail down the location before you make a decision about the best way to handle your investments.

If you sell your house before you decide on your new location, then keep the proceeds in a high yield savings account until you know what your new country requires.

Good luck.
Yeah, good point. Most high yields have really crazy limits, etc. 5k max, etc. With that in mind, any other ideas on what one might do with a large amount for a short period? Thanks.
Bank money market funds usually pay a higher rate for larger balances.

Or you could go with one of these: https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... nd-returns
Great, thanks so much.

iamlucky13
Posts: 1511
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:28 pm
Location: Western Washington

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by iamlucky13 » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:10 pm

A quick Monte Carlo simulation on Portfolio Visualizer suggested a 93% chance of success over 40 years with 4% withdrawal rate and 60/40 US total stock market / total bond. That's not accounting for social security, so realistically, the situation is better.

But if we make the assumption that we're in a high market right now, and assume the sequence of returns risk places the worst 5 years the market will experience as occurring at the start of your drawdown phase, that drops the chance of success to 40%.

If I play with asset allocation, more stocks increases the chances of success in typical market conditions, but worsens the chance of success under a bad sequence of returns scenario.

A couple questions I'd take very hard looks at before retiring:

How certain are you of your expenses in the LCOL area, including housing?

Is health care included in your estimates, including how anticipated expenses will change as you age?

Hopefully you already are aware that 4% is a common and fairly well-studied recommendation for a retirement expected to last about 30 years. When the period is longer, the risk increases, and lower withdrawal rates are generally preferred. If you do go with a 4% withdrawal rate, my advice is to make sure you have the ability to trim your expenses if returns don't match your expectations.

User avatar
Tyler Aspect
Posts: 1568
Joined: Mon Mar 20, 2017 10:27 pm
Location: California
Contact:

Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by Tyler Aspect » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:14 pm

One thing you can do is to download the VPW spread-sheet. Enter data as if you are already retired. Looks at your current year withdrawal amount and see if it is survivable. Boost your net asset value until you get a survivable number. This would tell you how far away you could be from retirement.

However, from looking at your initial numbers the balance appeared to be on the low side.

Variable percentage withdrawal

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Variabl ... withdrawal
Last edited by Tyler Aspect on Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Past result does not predict future performance. Mentioned investments may lose money. Contents are presented "AS IS" and any implied suitability for a particular purpose are disclaimed.

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Sandtrap
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by Sandtrap » Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:23 pm

Based on the little data given things seem to be a bit "thin".

OTOH
But, there's always income supplementation along the way if needed or returning back to work.
And, if one really "wants" to make it happen, then anything can happen.
And, if you try it, you'll find out.

Here are some projection tools for you.
ONLINE FINANCIAL TOOLS
PORFOLIO VISUALIZERS, PROJECTIONS, AND ANALYSIS
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com
Firecalc. Retirement. How long will your money last?
https://www.firecalc.com

*A forum format "portfolio review" would be far better for something important as this.
Portfolio Review Request
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewt ... =1&t=6212
Inputs are limited without this.

j :happy
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know

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olympia_t
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Fri Aug 30, 2019 7:58 am

iamlucky13 wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:10 pm
A quick Monte Carlo simulation on Portfolio Visualizer suggested a 93% chance of success over 40 years with 4% withdrawal rate and 60/40 US total stock market / total bond. That's not accounting for social security, so realistically, the situation is better.

But if we make the assumption that we're in a high market right now, and assume the sequence of returns risk places the worst 5 years the market will experience as occurring at the start of your drawdown phase, that drops the chance of success to 40%.

If I play with asset allocation, more stocks increases the chances of success in typical market conditions, but worsens the chance of success under a bad sequence of returns scenario.

A couple questions I'd take very hard looks at before retiring:

How certain are you of your expenses in the LCOL area, including housing?

Is health care included in your estimates, including how anticipated expenses will change as you age?

Hopefully you already are aware that 4% is a common and fairly well-studied recommendation for a retirement expected to last about 30 years. When the period is longer, the risk increases, and lower withdrawal rates are generally preferred. If you do go with a 4% withdrawal rate, my advice is to make sure you have the ability to trim your expenses if returns don't match your expectations.
Thanks for your thoughts. A lot of it is hypothetical at the moment because the places we're considering we've not experienced, just researched.

Part of the idea is going somewhere where we'd be on a good national or affordable private care plan.

I'm sure we'll likely keep working but don't have a current plan. Have a small business now that is the opposite of digital nomad. All of this is very hard because we basically have to give up everything now to try it out. A lot of faith for basically all known variables.

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olympia_t
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:00 am

Tyler Aspect wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:14 pm
One thing you can do is to download the VPW spread-sheet. Enter data as if you are already retired. Looks at your current year withdrawal amount and see if it is survivable. Boost your net asset value until you get a survivable number. This would tell you how far away you could be from retirement.

However, from looking at your initial numbers the balance appeared to be on the low side.
Thanks for your suggestion. Is there a link to this spreadsheet or could you share what VPW stands for? Thanks!

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olympia_t
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:04 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:23 pm
Based on the little data given things seem to be a bit "thin".

OTOH
But, there's always income supplementation along the way if needed or returning back to work.
And, if one really "wants" to make it happen, then anything can happen.
And, if you try it, you'll find out.

Here are some projection tools for you.
ONLINE FINANCIAL TOOLS
PORFOLIO VISUALIZERS, PROJECTIONS, AND ANALYSIS
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com
Firecalc. Retirement. How long will your money last?
https://www.firecalc.com

*A forum format "portfolio review" would be far better for something important as this.
Portfolio Review Request
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewt ... =1&t=6212
Inputs are limited without this.

j :happy

Thanks so much. I'll check those out. Have done a bunch of the fire calc versions but will definitely look at the others.

I'm sure we'd keep earning but don't necessarily know how yet. I think that makes it harder for me to get a clearer picture. My SO is much more type B/easygoing/not a worrier and knows we'll figure something out. I have a harder time not knowing a sure thing. I might end up having to do something like teaching English just to have a reason to pull the plug and sell the house.

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Sandtrap
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by Sandtrap » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:18 am

olympia_t wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:04 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:23 pm
Based on the little data given things seem to be a bit "thin".

OTOH
But, there's always income supplementation along the way if needed or returning back to work.
And, if one really "wants" to make it happen, then anything can happen.
And, if you try it, you'll find out.

Here are some projection tools for you.
ONLINE FINANCIAL TOOLS
PORFOLIO VISUALIZERS, PROJECTIONS, AND ANALYSIS
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com
Firecalc. Retirement. How long will your money last?
https://www.firecalc.com

*A forum format "portfolio review" would be far better for something important as this.
Portfolio Review Request
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewt ... =1&t=6212
Inputs are limited without this.

j :happy

Thanks so much. I'll check those out. Have done a bunch of the fire calc versions but will definitely look at the others.

I'm sure we'd keep earning but don't necessarily know how yet. I think that makes it harder for me to get a clearer picture. My SO is much more type B/easygoing/not a worrier and knows we'll figure something out. I have a harder time not knowing a sure thing. I might end up having to do something like teaching English just to have a reason to pull the plug and sell the house.
Suggest you talk to real life folks who have travelled and lived abroad to "teach English", and study the businesses that run these programs. I've known a few folks that have done this and while it might put food on the table in Istanbul, it does not do much more.

The "romanticization" of these types of alternate life paths is alluring vs the reality and nuts and bolts of surviving on a daily basis. Be sure to have an exit plan. Be sure you can again purchase a home in the States and live as well and financially secure as if you did not take a tangent so if things do not work out, it will seem more like an adventure rather than a severe setback. Especially by the time one is 70-80+ and resources have dwindled.

j
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know

bloom2708
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by bloom2708 » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:42 am

If you are both in agreement, no kids and willing to move, try different things, the world is your oyster.

https://www.mrfreeat33.com/

Jason above lives in Thailand. Lives a pretty nice life for ~$1,500 a month in a fully furnished/luxury type condo.

He has posts about many related topics to living oversees.
"People want confirmation, not advice" Unknown | "We are here to provoke thoughtfulness, not agree with you" Unknown | Four words. Whole food, plant based. Bing it.

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olympia_t
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:55 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:18 am
olympia_t wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:04 am
Sandtrap wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:23 pm
Based on the little data given things seem to be a bit "thin".

OTOH
But, there's always income supplementation along the way if needed or returning back to work.
And, if one really "wants" to make it happen, then anything can happen.
And, if you try it, you'll find out.

Here are some projection tools for you.
ONLINE FINANCIAL TOOLS
PORFOLIO VISUALIZERS, PROJECTIONS, AND ANALYSIS
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com
Firecalc. Retirement. How long will your money last?
https://www.firecalc.com

*A forum format "portfolio review" would be far better for something important as this.
Portfolio Review Request
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewt ... =1&t=6212
Inputs are limited without this.

j :happy

Thanks so much. I'll check those out. Have done a bunch of the fire calc versions but will definitely look at the others.

I'm sure we'd keep earning but don't necessarily know how yet. I think that makes it harder for me to get a clearer picture. My SO is much more type B/easygoing/not a worrier and knows we'll figure something out. I have a harder time not knowing a sure thing. I might end up having to do something like teaching English just to have a reason to pull the plug and sell the house.
Suggest you talk to real life folks who have travelled and lived abroad to "teach English", and study the businesses that run these programs. I've known a few folks that have done this and while it might put food on the table in Istanbul, it does not do much more.

The "romanticization" of these types of alternate life paths is alluring vs the reality and nuts and bolts of surviving on a daily basis. Be sure to have an exit plan. Be sure you can again purchase a home in the States and live as well and financially secure as if you did not take a tangent so if things do not work out, it will seem more like an adventure rather than a severe setback. Especially by the time one is 70-80+ and resources have dwindled.

j
Yeah, the idea of teaching English abroad isn't to get rich but basically to cover basics and allow the nest egg to grow. Also reason to move. I'm concerned that I'll never do it if there isn't some deadline.

I've done career path jobs/studies that are "romantic/romanticized by others" so I get that. Have lived abroad for a couple years in the past so get that too. Definitely an element of wherever you go, there you are.

If we could remain in capital preservation mode then we hopefully wouldn't be priced out of everything if the "adventure" doesn't pan out. But yeah, you bring up what are my highest concerns. I feel fairly sure that we wouldn't be able to buy back into our HCOL life that we have now.

Thanks for bringing this up, I'd rather fuller consider pros and cons than move forward without thinking it all out.

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olympia_t
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:56 am

bloom2708 wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 10:42 am
If you are both in agreement, no kids and willing to move, try different things, the world is your oyster.

https://www.mrfreeat33.com/

Jason above lives in Thailand. Lives a pretty nice life for ~$1,500 a month in a fully furnished/luxury type condo.

He has posts about many related topics to living oversees.
Yeah, I love oysters. ;)

Trying to balance risk and rewards....

countmein
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by countmein » Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:23 am

olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:57 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:54 pm
Curious as to what locations you’ve identified that would allow you to live comfortably in $28,000/year, including paying for medical care?

I don’t doubt there are some.
We're kind of going out on a limb on this one. Some folks do it in the US but we're looking abroad. Currently Portugal, Spain, Italy are on the list. Belize, Costa Rica, Mexico, Guatemala etc are also options. Many also like South East Asia. Healthcare is actually one of the reasons. If you establish residency in some countries you are eligible for their heathcare. Doesn't happen immediately in all places though.
Mexico probably works. A friend bought a surprisingly nice little house in a seaside town a couple years back for about 20k. Meanwhile, the 1200 sq ft house I'm renting in an HCOLA costs north of 30k for one year's rent and has an estimated value of around 750k :shock:

Also, friend raves about Mexian health care-- good quality and cheap. Don't know if he has insurance or just pays cash.

fujiters
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by fujiters » Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:27 pm

I recommend you read through this series on safe withdrawal rates with a focus on early retirement:

https://earlyretirementnow.com/2016/12/ ... t-1-intro/

In sum, you probably want to aim for a 3-3.5% withdrawal rate for a long term (>30 years) retirement, especially given current stock valuations.

You probably want to derisk (hold a significant portion of your portfolio in bonds) now to mitigate sequence of return risk (namely that the market undergoes a large crash soon after you retire). You can raise your equity holdings (up to something like 70-80% stock) in the decade after retirement.

Make a careful budget with at least 10% extra for the inevitable unplanned expenses.

There are many places within the US that offer low costs of living as well that would be worth considering where you could also try to work occasionally (since you're considering teaching English as a foreign language). There are subsidies via the ACA that can make medical insurance very inexpensive (free at sufficiently low income) if your income is less than 4 times the poverty level.
“The purpose of the margin of safety is to render the forecast unnecessary.” -Benjamin Graham

Prettyfrtnt
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by Prettyfrtnt » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:21 pm

countmein wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:23 am
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:57 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:54 pm
Curious as to what locations you’ve identified that would allow you to live comfortably in $28,000/year, including paying for medical care?

I don’t doubt there are some.
We're kind of going out on a limb on this one. Some folks do it in the US but we're looking abroad. Currently Portugal, Spain, Italy are on the list. Belize, Costa Rica, Mexico, Guatemala etc are also options. Many also like South East Asia. Healthcare is actually one of the reasons. If you establish residency in some countries you are eligible for their heathcare. Doesn't happen immediately in all places though.
Mexico probably works. A friend bought a surprisingly nice little house in a seaside town a couple years back for about 20k. Meanwhile, the 1200 sq ft house I'm renting in an HCOLA costs north of 30k for one year's rent and has an estimated value of around 750k :shock:

Also, friend raves about Mexian health care-- good quality and cheap. Don't know if he has insurance or just pays cash.

Mexican health care is a categorical disaster. Absolute disaster. You will return to the USA if you are sick. Mexican health care can drain an Americans portfolio faster than you can snap your fingers. Frequently treatments are in no way up to date or evidence based. Mexico is only an option for the well. I won’t comment on Thailand and other locales. But Mexican health care is a for-profit awful place. You get sick and you will come back. You will learn this the hard way. I can tell you many many stories. Americans love their system as long as nothing too bad going on. The quality is awful systemically. Do you have any idea how hard it is for a layperson to know what is good healthcare? I do. A rich American will feel like they are treated like a king. It’s an effective con.

It’s hard enough to find a good doctor here and navigate our systems and not feel like an atm. There you are an atm.
Last edited by Prettyfrtnt on Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

megabad
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by megabad » Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:43 pm

I can't imagine early retirement with 110k in savings, but I will put aside the fact that personally I don't think I would ever have the extreme risk tolerance you do, since your question appears to be only surrounding allocation. This is the US forum, so I will assume you will live in the US and are exposed to US taxes. If you choose to live elsewhere you would probably do better to speak with someone on the international forums familiar with the tax situation there and/or local currency/investment issues.

1) Sell Google/Apple up to top of 0% LTCG bracket every year until gone
2) Work this and the funds from house sale into an appropriate asset allocation based on your risk tolerance and time horizon

If I were doing this, maybe the breakdown would look something like:
20% Money Market Fund/High Yield Savings
10% Short term TIPS index fund
10% Total Bond Market Index
35% Total US Stock Mkt Index
25% Total Int Stock Mkt Index

But this is just one rough suggestion. You should find an allocation that you are comfortable with.

I can't give fund placement suggestions without knowing your exact tax situation. I assume you will pay 0% LTCG/QDI but your income tax might also be 0% or negative. At this income level, taxes become very complicated and adding possible expat status to the mix clouds my judgement on what the best move is there.

22twain
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by 22twain » Fri Aug 30, 2019 5:10 pm

olympia_t wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 8:00 am
Tyler Aspect wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 9:14 pm
One thing you can do is to download the VPW spread-sheet. [...]
Thanks for your suggestion. Is there a link to this spreadsheet or could you share what VPW stands for? Thanks!
There are links to the spreadsheet (the "VPW Accumulation And Retirement Worksheet") in the Bogleheads wiki article that Tyler linked to. Specifically, in this section:

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Variabl ... _Worksheet

VPW = "Variable Percentage Withdrawal". The method was developed by "longinvest", a member of this forum.

If you enter "VPW" in the search box at the top right of any page here (in a desktop browser), you'll get lots of threads that discuss it.
My investing princiPLEs do not include absolutely preserving princiPAL.

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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by Tyler Aspect » Fri Aug 30, 2019 9:34 pm

Prettyfrtnt wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 4:21 pm
Mexican health care is a categorical disaster. Absolute disaster. You will return to the USA if you are sick. Mexican health care can drain an Americans portfolio faster than you can snap your fingers. Frequently treatments are in no way up to date or evidence based. Mexico is only an option for the well. I won’t comment on Thailand and other locales. But Mexican health care is a for-profit awful place. You get sick and you will come back. You will learn this the hard way. I can tell you many many stories. Americans love their system as long as nothing too bad going on. The quality is awful systemically. Do you have any idea how hard it is for a layperson to know what is good healthcare? I do. A rich American will feel like they are treated like a king. It’s an effective con.

It’s hard enough to find a good doctor here and navigate our systems and not feel like an atm. There you are an atm.
Good point!

I know Malaysia a bit. Malaysia's medical system is not good, but you could live near Singapore border, then travel to Singapore for treatment. Not a work-around for getting into a local traffic accident and get sent to a local hospital while unconscious. :shock:
Past result does not predict future performance. Mentioned investments may lose money. Contents are presented "AS IS" and any implied suitability for a particular purpose are disclaimed.

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olympia_t
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:49 am

countmein wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:23 am
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:57 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:54 pm
Curious as to what locations you’ve identified that would allow you to live comfortably in $28,000/year, including paying for medical care?

I don’t doubt there are some.
We're kind of going out on a limb on this one. Some folks do it in the US but we're looking abroad. Currently Portugal, Spain, Italy are on the list. Belize, Costa Rica, Mexico, Guatemala etc are also options. Many also like South East Asia. Healthcare is actually one of the reasons. If you establish residency in some countries you are eligible for their heathcare. Doesn't happen immediately in all places though.
Mexico probably works. A friend bought a surprisingly nice little house in a seaside town a couple years back for about 20k. Meanwhile, the 1200 sq ft house I'm renting in an HCOLA costs north of 30k for one year's rent and has an estimated value of around 750k :shock:

Also, friend raves about Mexian health care-- good quality and cheap. Don't know if he has insurance or just pays cash.
I accidentally checked out Mexican health care while visiting and having a kidney stone. Was advised to go to a private hospital. Was very nice, the overnight and tests were about 2k. I'm guessing would have been worse/more expensive here.

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olympia_t
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:52 am

fujiters wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 2:27 pm
I recommend you read through this series on safe withdrawal rates with a focus on early retirement:

https://earlyretirementnow.com/2016/12/ ... t-1-intro/

In sum, you probably want to aim for a 3-3.5% withdrawal rate for a long term (>30 years) retirement, especially given current stock valuations.

You probably want to derisk (hold a significant portion of your portfolio in bonds) now to mitigate sequence of return risk (namely that the market undergoes a large crash soon after you retire). You can raise your equity holdings (up to something like 70-80% stock) in the decade after retirement.

Make a careful budget with at least 10% extra for the inevitable unplanned expenses.

There are many places within the US that offer low costs of living as well that would be worth considering where you could also try to work occasionally (since you're considering teaching English as a foreign language). There are subsidies via the ACA that can make medical insurance very inexpensive (free at sufficiently low income) if your income is less than 4 times the poverty level.
Thanks for the link. i have read through some of those. They're a bit heady with some unfamiliar financial terms but I'm trying to come up to speed!

That's a valid point about the US. We should look into our options a bit more. We love so much about the area where we live but the HCOL makes it really tough to think of sustaining.

Prettyfrtnt
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by Prettyfrtnt » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:09 am

olympia_t wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:49 am
countmein wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:23 am
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:57 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:54 pm
Curious as to what locations you’ve identified that would allow you to live comfortably in $28,000/year, including paying for medical care?

I don’t doubt there are some.
We're kind of going out on a limb on this one. Some folks do it in the US but we're looking abroad. Currently Portugal, Spain, Italy are on the list. Belize, Costa Rica, Mexico, Guatemala etc are also options. Many also like South East Asia. Healthcare is actually one of the reasons. If you establish residency in some countries you are eligible for their heathcare. Doesn't happen immediately in all places though.
Mexico probably works. A friend bought a surprisingly nice little house in a seaside town a couple years back for about 20k. Meanwhile, the 1200 sq ft house I'm renting in an HCOLA costs north of 30k for one year's rent and has an estimated value of around 750k :shock:

Also, friend raves about Mexian health care-- good quality and cheap. Don't know if he has insurance or just pays cash.
I accidentally checked out Mexican health care while visiting and having a kidney stone. Was advised to go to a private hospital. Was very nice, the overnight and tests were about 2k. I'm guessing would have been worse/more expensive here.

Yes you had a kidney stone... that’s routine. Did your kidney stone need an operation? My guess is no. So if it didn’t you were charged 2K for hydration. And yes the building was super nice and you were treated amazingly. Glad you didn’t have sepsis (but then if you have loved ones they’d flight you) or worse cancer which you’ll learn about their treatments a little late...

Your comment is akin to me saying GE is awesome I made $10000 off it yesterday. Anecdotal.

If my life is on the line I would suggest you have a 15% chance of getting optimal care in the USA, 7% in a country like Canada or France and 0% in Mexico. Luckily in the USA you can hedge this with sophisticated navigation. If you put in your efforts to navigate the system in the USA you can greatly increase these odds.

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olympia_t
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Re: FIRE Drawdown Plan

Post by olympia_t » Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:24 am

Prettyfrtnt wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 8:09 am
olympia_t wrote:
Sat Aug 31, 2019 7:49 am
countmein wrote:
Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:23 am
olympia_t wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:57 pm
delamer wrote:
Thu Aug 29, 2019 7:54 pm
Curious as to what locations you’ve identified that would allow you to live comfortably in $28,000/year, including paying for medical care?

I don’t doubt there are some.
We're kind of going out on a limb on this one. Some folks do it in the US but we're looking abroad. Currently Portugal, Spain, Italy are on the list. Belize, Costa Rica, Mexico, Guatemala etc are also options. Many also like South East Asia. Healthcare is actually one of the reasons. If you establish residency in some countries you are eligible for their heathcare. Doesn't happen immediately in all places though.
Mexico probably works. A friend bought a surprisingly nice little house in a seaside town a couple years back for about 20k. Meanwhile, the 1200 sq ft house I'm renting in an HCOLA costs north of 30k for one year's rent and has an estimated value of around 750k :shock:

Also, friend raves about Mexian health care-- good quality and cheap. Don't know if he has insurance or just pays cash.
I accidentally checked out Mexican health care while visiting and having a kidney stone. Was advised to go to a private hospital. Was very nice, the overnight and tests were about 2k. I'm guessing would have been worse/more expensive here.

Yes you had a kidney stone... that’s routine. Did your kidney stone need an operation? My guess is no. So if it didn’t you were charged 2K for hydration. And yes the building was super nice and you were treated amazingly. Glad you didn’t have sepsis (but then if you have loved ones they’d flight you) or worse cancer which you’ll learn about their treatments a little late...

Your comment is akin to me saying GE is awesome I made $10000 off it yesterday. Anecdotal.

If my life is on the line I would suggest you have a 15% chance of getting optimal care in the USA, 7% in a country like Canada or France and 0% in Mexico. Luckily in the USA you can hedge this with sophisticated navigation. If you put in your efforts to navigate the system in the USA you can greatly increase these odds.
Most serious health problem I've had in my life. I'm sure it's worse/harder with other things. What do you think an overnight and ultrasounds would cost in a US hospital without insurance?

Your comments also seem anecdotal. Do you have first hand experience with medical care abroad? Which countries?

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