Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

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Topic Author
dmk395
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:13 am

Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by dmk395 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:10 am

Looking for where to go next. 40 not married with long time GF. Some would say FIRE, but I think I'd get bored. I'm used to working 60 hour weeks. Now I'm doing 35-40 hr. weeks and its not that big a deal. Would like to drop my hours a bit more, but not to 0, as I don't want to be too idle.

Cash 350k in mm and cd's earning 1.5-2.5%

IRA vanguard 150k

Townhouse primary (paid off)
Beach condo owe 160k

3 rental properties generating $8600 a month, with about $4500 month net after expenses. (I self manage)
Owe 370k combined mortgages. Value of 3 properties is about 1 million.

Self employed contractor for 20 past years with 2 employees. I own a small shop outright and all my trucks and equipment are paid off. I like my job and work half days typically. 100k salary

I'd like to at some point to not manage the rental properties, but I've built a lot of wealth doing this, and excess cash flow goes to pay downs and savings. That would free me up 10 hours a week probably since I handle maintenance etc. I'm hiring more things out nowadays. Nonetheless as I've hired out more people I now really only handle small stuff and emergencies. It's the emergencies that still are a PAIN, but have a good system in place otherwise.

I'd like a single family house at some point, but I always have bought at discount and can't fathom paying list for a home.

Where do I go next? Maybe pay off the rental mortgages in 5 years, then have management take over, cashflow would probably be similar to what it is now or maybe better since all mortgages would be gone. It's tough to hand over the steering wheel...

HomeStretch
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by HomeStretch » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:22 am

Sounds like you are doing great.

IMO where you go next at age 40 is dependent on your long term goals. How much do you need to fund your retirement expenses (net of retirement income) and by what age do you need to hit this number?

Once you identify the how much more you need to accumulate and the number of years you have to fund it, use that information to guide your decisions on what to do next with the hours you work, how you handle your rental properties and your exit strategy from your business.

Topic Author
dmk395
Posts: 88
Joined: Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:13 am

Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by dmk395 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:27 am

HomeStretch wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:22 am
Sounds like you are doing great.

IMO where you go next at age 40 is dependent on your long term goals. How much do you need to fund your retirement expenses (net of retirement income) and by what age do you need to hit this number?

Once you identify the how much more you need to accumulate and the number of years you have to fund it, use that information to guide your decisions on what to do next with the hours you work, how you handle your rental properties and your exit strategy from your business.

Good point. Thank you. Originally I planned on exiting at 40, but realized I'd get bored. Started hiring out more things to limit hours. Maybe I will half fire...if there's a term....ha

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JoMoney
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by JoMoney » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:30 am

You're 40, not 70... if you don't want to retire early then don't. You've done well for yourself and have plenty of productive years ahead of you. It sounds to me like maybe you've hit some sort of milestone or plateau and need some new goal(s) to be working towards.
It's not for everyone, but many people get some fulfillment in raising a family. It's not necessarily fun, profitable, or easy, but it's built into our biology and what every one of your ancestors did.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham

Soon2BXProgrammer
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by Soon2BXProgrammer » Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:48 am

dmk395 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:10 am
Looking for where to go next. 40 not married with long time GF. Some would say FIRE, but I think I'd get bored. I'm used to working 60 hour weeks. Now I'm doing 35-40 hr. weeks and its not that big a deal. Would like to drop my hours a bit more, but not to 0, as I don't want to be too idle.

Cash 350k in mm and cd's earning 1.5-2.5%

IRA vanguard 150k

Townhouse primary (paid off)
Beach condo owe 160k

3 rental properties generating $8600 a month, with about $4500 month net after expenses. (I self manage)
Owe 370k combined mortgages. Value of 3 properties is about 1 million.

Self employed contractor for 20 past years with 2 employees. I own a small shop outright and all my trucks and equipment are paid off. I like my job and work half days typically. 100k salary

I'd like to at some point to not manage the rental properties, but I've built a lot of wealth doing this, and excess cash flow goes to pay downs and savings. That would free me up 10 hours a week probably since I handle maintenance etc. I'm hiring more things out nowadays. Nonetheless as I've hired out more people I now really only handle small stuff and emergencies. It's the emergencies that still are a PAIN, but have a good system in place otherwise.

I'd like a single family house at some point, but I always have bought at discount and can't fathom paying list for a home.

Where do I go next? Maybe pay off the rental mortgages in 5 years, then have management take over, cashflow would probably be similar to what it is now or maybe better since all mortgages would be gone. It's tough to hand over the steering wheel...
i plan to FIRE from my wage slave job at a megacorp, then start my own small boutique financial advising firm, hopefully, it doesn't grow too much.

my point is... my motivation is to be more a master of my own time. Do something i like to do, but not to much of it.

Sounds like you already have a lot of those freedoms.

FIRE is more about doing what you want to do, because you want to do, and not just for the money, then actually Retiring Early.

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Watty
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by Watty » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:00 am

dmk395 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:10 am
I like my job and work half days typically. 100k salary
There is an old saying, "If ain't broken then don't fix it."

I don't really seen any reason to make any major changes since you seem to be doing great and don't have a big desire to fully retire and you are already working half time in your main job.

I would just focus on doing some fine tuning of your situation and slowly getting yourself in a position where you can fully retire in 10 or 20 years if you need or want to then.
dmk395 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:10 am
Where do I go next?
One thing that is missing from your post was any mention of any retirement accounts. Since you have your own business you may be able to put about $50k a year into a pre-tax retirement account so it would be good to look into that.

I don't know a lot about it but you can apparently exchange one investment property for another without paying taxes by doing what is called a 1031 real estate exchange.

Right now you own five residential properties and you might be able to swap a couple of those investment properties for something that might be easier to hire someone to manage like a commercial property or an apartment building. That could give you a bit more diversification too since you would have a couple of different property types. This might also be easier to manage when you are 75 years old and cannot do a lot of the work yourself. I don't have a clue if the numbers for this would look good or not so it is mainly just a brainstorming idea.
dmk395 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:10 am
I'd like a single family house at some point, but I always have bought at discount and can't fathom paying list for a home.


If you buy a house that needs some work that you could do yourself you would not be paying "list price".

You would need to look at the numbers but if you sold your townhouse now you could likely get the homeowners capital gains exclusion and not pay any capital gains taxes.

If you bought a single family home with 20% down you could likely get a great interest rate especially with a 15 year mortage. You could then use the home equity from the townhouse and maybe some of your cash to pay off the mortgages on the investment properties if those loans are at a higher rate.

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ChowYunPhat
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by ChowYunPhat » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:06 am

Think I understand what you're feeling. There are several things to be very proud/appreciative of in your situation. You have a contracting and rental business which provides some flexibility. You have the flexibility to (1) set your hours, (2) hire vs. DIY, (3) and expand or contract your contracting business based on work and employee take. You also have some measure to absorb an injury or illness which might keep you from contracting for a time.

Could you take some time to consider what you enjoy doing most vocationally?
If you like the contracting bit, do more of the labor yourself and hire bookkeeping
If you prefer to be out of the rental business and hire Prop Mgmt, do that and focus more on building contracting business
If you want to pursue a new business or venture, consider hiring an administrator who can help handle both prop mgmt and some of the contracting duties.

There may be other permutations of the above but wanted to tease this idea a little. Good luck to you DMK395...you and GF are doing great financially.
A wise man and his money are friends forever...

arf30
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by arf30 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:12 am

There's two parts to FIRE, having the money to replace your job and having the hobby to replace your job.

Topic Author
dmk395
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by dmk395 » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:26 am

ChowYunPhat wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:06 am
Think I understand what you're feeling. There are several things to be very proud/appreciative of in your situation. You have a contracting and rental business which provides some flexibility. You have the flexibility to (1) set your hours, (2) hire vs. DIY, (3) and expand or contract your contracting business based on work and employee take. You also have some measure to absorb an injury or illness which might keep you from contracting for a time.

Could you take some time to consider what you enjoy doing most vocationally?
If you like the contracting bit, do more of the labor yourself and hire bookkeeping
If you prefer to be out of the rental business and hire Prop Mgmt, do that and focus more on building contracting business
If you want to pursue a new business or venture, consider hiring an administrator who can help handle both prop mgmt and some of the contracting duties.

There may be other permutations of the above but wanted to tease this idea a little. Good luck to you DMK395...you and GF are doing great financially.
Thank you. I like what you're getting at here...

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Sandtrap
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:35 am

dmk395 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:10 am
Looking for where to go next. 40 not married with long time GF. Some would say FIRE, but I think I'd get bored. I'm used to working 60 hour weeks. Now I'm doing 35-40 hr. weeks and its not that big a deal. Would like to drop my hours a bit more, but not to 0, as I don't want to be too idle.

Cash 350k in mm and cd's earning 1.5-2.5%

IRA vanguard 150k

Townhouse primary (paid off)
Beach condo owe 160k

3 rental properties generating $8600 a month, with about $4500 month net after expenses. (I self manage)
Owe 370k combined mortgages. Value of 3 properties is about 1 million.

Self employed contractor for 20 past years with 2 employees. I own a small shop outright and all my trucks and equipment are paid off. I like my job and work half days typically. 100k salary

I'd like to at some point to not manage the rental properties, but I've built a lot of wealth doing this, and excess cash flow goes to pay downs and savings. That would free me up 10 hours a week probably since I handle maintenance etc. I'm hiring more things out nowadays. Nonetheless as I've hired out more people I now really only handle small stuff and emergencies. It's the emergencies that still are a PAIN, but have a good system in place otherwise.

I'd like a single family house at some point, but I always have bought at discount and can't fathom paying list for a home.

Where do I go next? Maybe pay off the rental mortgages in 5 years, then have management take over, cashflow would probably be similar to what it is now or maybe better since all mortgages would be gone. It's tough to hand over the steering wheel...
You share a similar path that I had travelled.

(Degree in Finance > Commercial G.C. (mostly franchises, shopping centers, mall build outs, food courts), R/E Developer. > Income Property > Multi Unit Housing (apartment buildings/lots) self managed and almost all maintenance work and reno "in house"> "burnout" > retired)

That said, here's some options for paths ahead.

1. Pay down debts, and keep doing so while doing #2-7.
2. Streamline company until it is at a very manageable level. Just do what you enjoy with time to spare.
3. Develop and diversify your income streams. Do a shift. So that your primary income will eventually be from rental properties. You have the eye and skillsets to do this well. Especially with the construction company. IE: buy a fourplex or eightplex at bank auction/foreclosure/short sale. Reno and rent. Consolidate SFH rentals to multi unit for economy of scale. You can 1031 over for this to avoid CGT. The continue to pay off debt and grow concurrently.
4. So, eventually, you have a property management company with construction capabilities (no shop needed, close that down) to support your growing income property business. Eventually, the income stream will be able to handle "subbing" out more of the work and repairs.
5. Along the way, without taking on more debt and spreading too thin, you might spot a good deal on a SFH for yourself. Buy it for yourself with the option to flip if you change your mind.
6. Again, reduce debt. Do not leverage (you have enough of that now).
7. Concurrently, while all of the above is happening, build yourself a "Bogle retirement portfolio" as described in this forum.
8. Guard your health. If you become disabled or incapacitate or injured, etc, then it will be very tough. This is why #1-7 above. I have not known a single GC without severe or bad back and other problems when they got older.

I hope some of these directions are helpful to you.
(I've travelled most of them and it works if you commit to them, along the way, consultants at the SBA helped me make this transition).

*universal disclaimer. YMMV. Everyone's paths and choices are different with different results. See your doctor before starting any intense exercise program. Stop medication or activity if it causes hives or severe itching. :oops:

Aloha
j :D
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know

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AerialWombat
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by AerialWombat » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:29 am

Congrats on your success! :sharebeer

I’m in a semi-similar-ish position. My co-founder and a small team 100% run my tiny software company. A joint venture partner runs about half my training/publishing company, and I am down to 20 hours a week on my half. I’m now at 6 doors in my rental portfolio (duplex and 4 SFR), all with property managers. I take an entire week off each month (heading toward Crater Lake NP here in a few minutes), have started a non-profit, and am contemplating my next business venture (because entrepreneurism is an incurable disease).

Take some time for yourself. Determine if you really want to be out of “the game”. I thought I did, and quickly realized I would get bored. Business people are wired differently than people with jobs, obviously, so bear that in mind as you contemplate the future.

Maybe go try some new things. Travel a bit. Read. Take random community education classes. Volunteer on small things. Take a line dance class. Just poke around and see what you find.
“Life doesn’t come with a warranty.” -Michael LeBoeuf

Cycle
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by Cycle » Sat Aug 03, 2019 11:51 am

education is work. can you envision something you'd like to build that would require a new skill? some new business venture that wouldn't involve too much risk of your capital.

my plan is to fat fire at 45 but still manage my 1 rental property and do some software development for fun. I'm a mechanical engineer. I spent the last year taking MOOC in my free time, making a bunch of Android Apps. I've been using these skills now at my real job at Megacorp and doing 20-30hrs a week of programming. its all coming together. got to have an exit strategy.

my stretch target is to get some side-hussle $$$ with the programming to move my FIRE date up.
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way

FI4LIFE
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by FI4LIFE » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:01 pm

Go seasonal with the the business and hire a management company for the rentals.

KyleAAA
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by KyleAAA » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:05 pm

So then don't drop your hours to 0. Find a small business you enjoy and work at it 20 hours per week. Or 30 hours. Or 5 hours.The point of FIRE isn't to do nothing, it's to do what you want. Very few FIRE'd individuals don't do some sort of work.

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FIREchief
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by FIREchief » Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:48 pm

arf30 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:12 am
There's two parts to FIRE, having the money to replace your job and having the hobby to replace your job.
It's difficult to make a complicated life more simple. It's easy to make a simple life more complicated.

I've never been bored in my life, and FIRE hasn't changed that. Life is just one big hobby (most of the time). :sharebeer
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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Mullins
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by Mullins » Sat Aug 03, 2019 1:21 pm

1. I think doing some more of what got you to this point, is still in order. At least for a while.
2. Know the amount you need to pull down for your annual expenses, entertainment and taxes. Invest the rest. Keep building assets. Knowing what you need to live might also give you a better idea of what you can do.
3. Any actual physical work you do should only be that which directly brings in revenue. That's being income oriented and where you should focus. All other positions in your company are expenses. So, all other work other than that which brings in more revenue is lower pay grade work and can be assigned to others or assistants rather than you using your time on lower pay chores so you can use that time for profitably.
4. Think about hiring a star salesperson to bring in more work for the shop.
5. As long as you have the shop to do work, for a SFH you could get one at auction or foreclosure.

miamivice
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by miamivice » Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:06 pm

With all do respect, I don't agree that you can FIRE.

A quick reading of your post indicates that you have assets of $1,000,000 if you sold your rental houses. Most people believe a 3- 4% is a SWR, so you would need to live on about $30,000 or $40,000 a year. Since you'd like to buy a house, I would be surprised if you could live on $30,000 to $40,000 for the next 40-50 years.

You might be thinking you wouldn't sell your assets but keep renting them out. Problem with that thought is that eventually they might need serious work (repairs, remodeling, new roofs, etc) and you would be faced with the dual issue of major remodeling at the same time as no renters. Or your area might experience an economic downturn and they might go vacant. As a retiree, you probably have too many eggs in the same rental house basket.

For comparsion, our family has a net worth of about $2.1 million, yet I don't consider ourselves anywhere close to being able to retire.

Strayshot
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by Strayshot » Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:43 pm

I really don’t get the whole FIRE thing. Other than being good blog and documentary fodder, I agree with others in this thread that most people in who have the option of FIRE would see it as a horrible and boring.

Just keep doing what you are doing and look for the next thing that gets you excited! Maybe it takes a few years to find that “thing” but who cares :sharebeer

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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by Wiggums » Sat Aug 03, 2019 5:33 pm

miamivice wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 3:06 pm
With all do respect, I don't agree that you can FIRE.

A quick reading of your post indicates that you have assets of $1,000,000 if you sold your rental houses. Most people believe a 3- 4% is a SWR, so you would need to live on about $30,000 or $40,000 a year. Since you'd like to buy a house, I would be surprised if you could live on $30,000 to $40,000 for the next 40-50 years.

You might be thinking you wouldn't sell your assets but keep renting them out. Problem with that thought is that eventually they might need serious work (repairs, remodeling, new roofs, etc) and you would be faced with the dual issue of major remodeling at the same time as no renters. Or your area might experience an economic downturn and they might go vacant. As a retiree, you probably have too many eggs in the same rental house basket.

For comparsion, our family has a net worth of about $2.1 million, yet I don't consider ourselves anywhere close to being able to retire.
You make some good points here for the OP to consider. There are times when you need to spend money to make money. Big expenses when you are retired can be an issue. It’s really important that you accurately project your retirement expenses and the effects of inflation over those 40 years.

Good luck to you...

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FIREchief
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by FIREchief » Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:44 pm

Strayshot wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:43 pm
I really don’t get the whole FIRE thing. Other than being good blog and documentary fodder, I agree with others in this thread that most people in who have the option of FIRE would see it as a horrible and boring.
Most?! :?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

Topic Author
dmk395
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by dmk395 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:32 am

Sandtrap wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 8:35 am
dmk395 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:10 am
Looking for where to go next. 40 not married with long time GF. Some would say FIRE, but I think I'd get bored. I'm used to working 60 hour weeks. Now I'm doing 35-40 hr. weeks and its not that big a deal. Would like to drop my hours a bit more, but not to 0, as I don't want to be too idle.

Cash 350k in mm and cd's earning 1.5-2.5%

IRA vanguard 150k

Townhouse primary (paid off)
Beach condo owe 160k

3 rental properties generating $8600 a month, with about $4500 month net after expenses. (I self manage)
Owe 370k combined mortgages. Value of 3 properties is about 1 million.

Self employed contractor for 20 past years with 2 employees. I own a small shop outright and all my trucks and equipment are paid off. I like my job and work half days typically. 100k salary

I'd like to at some point to not manage the rental properties, but I've built a lot of wealth doing this, and excess cash flow goes to pay downs and savings. That would free me up 10 hours a week probably since I handle maintenance etc. I'm hiring more things out nowadays. Nonetheless as I've hired out more people I now really only handle small stuff and emergencies. It's the emergencies that still are a PAIN, but have a good system in place otherwise.

I'd like a single family house at some point, but I always have bought at discount and can't fathom paying list for a home.

Where do I go next? Maybe pay off the rental mortgages in 5 years, then have management take over, cashflow would probably be similar to what it is now or maybe better since all mortgages would be gone. It's tough to hand over the steering wheel...
You share a similar path that I had travelled.

(Degree in Finance > Commercial G.C. (mostly franchises, shopping centers, mall build outs, food courts), R/E Developer. > Income Property > Multi Unit Housing (apartment buildings/lots) self managed and almost all maintenance work and reno "in house"> "burnout" > retired)

That said, here's some options for paths ahead.

1. Pay down debts, and keep doing so while doing #2-7.
2. Streamline company until it is at a very manageable level. Just do what you enjoy with time to spare.
3. Develop and diversify your income streams. Do a shift. So that your primary income will eventually be from rental properties. You have the eye and skillsets to do this well. Especially with the construction company. IE: buy a fourplex or eightplex at bank auction/foreclosure/short sale. Reno and rent. Consolidate SFH rentals to multi unit for economy of scale. You can 1031 over for this to avoid CGT. The continue to pay off debt and grow concurrently.
4. So, eventually, you have a property management company with construction capabilities (no shop needed, close that down) to support your growing income property business. Eventually, the income stream will be able to handle "subbing" out more of the work and repairs.
5. Along the way, without taking on more debt and spreading too thin, you might spot a good deal on a SFH for yourself. Buy it for yourself with the option to flip if you change your mind.
6. Again, reduce debt. Do not leverage (you have enough of that now).
7. Concurrently, while all of the above is happening, build yourself a "Bogle retirement portfolio" as described in this forum.
8. Guard your health. If you become disabled or incapacitate or injured, etc, then it will be very tough. This is why #1-7 above. I have not known a single GC without severe or bad back and other problems when they got older.

I hope some of these directions are helpful to you.
(I've travelled most of them and it works if you commit to them, along the way, consultants at the SBA helped me make this transition).

*universal disclaimer. YMMV. Everyone's paths and choices are different with different results. See your doctor before starting any intense exercise program. Stop medication or activity if it causes hives or severe itching. :oops:

Aloha
j :D
Thank you for this well thought out response. Would you recommend paying down the mortgage first on my second home 160k, or the lowest mortgage of my 3 rental properties 102k?

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JPH
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by JPH » Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:53 am

Avoidance of boredom is a terrible reason to pursue a career.
While the moments do summersaults into eternity | Cling to their coattails and beg them to stay - Townes Van Zandt

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Sandtrap
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by Sandtrap » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:10 am

dmk395 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 6:32 am
. . . .
Thank you for this well thought out response. Would you recommend paying down the mortgage first on my second home 160k, or the lowest mortgage of my 3 rental properties 102k?
Lowest mortgage with the highest interest first.
If it is very small and you can pay any off easily, then do so. Thereafter, net rent is that much higher and unit is free and clear.

Just keep simplifying like this. Takes a lot of weight off you.

j
Wiki Bogleheads Wiki: Everything You Need to Know

Strayshot
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by Strayshot » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:29 am

FIREchief wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:44 pm
Strayshot wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:43 pm
I really don’t get the whole FIRE thing. Other than being good blog and documentary fodder, I agree with others in this thread that most people in who have the option of FIRE would see it as a horrible and boring.
Most?! :?
Yes, most. Like a term that implies a large-ish percentage of the population.

Most folks who can actually become “financially independent” way before FRA based on their own hard work (and not a trust fund, large inheritance, lottery win, etc) aren’t wired to just stop. Sometimes they aren’t even wired to cut back. Lots of famous examples (Elon Musk, sells PayPal and rather than buy a yacht and hang out he pursues companies/technology in two of the most difficult industries around) but lots of “nobody” examples too. A family member was FI at 38, got bored by 40 and now owns a vineyard and a bank a decade-ish later. Was he FIRE at 38? Is he FIRE now? He has 2 “jobs”. Or does he have 2 “hobbies” that generate income? It doesn’t matter really. Even MMM who I can’t stand started a coworking space and a hugely monetized blog in his “retirement”. Is that FIRE?

That’s why I don’t get the whole FIRE thing and think it is really just a term and concept invented to appeal to a mostly millennial population in a philosophical sense while actually supporting a whole new industry of people monetizing it, many of whom claim they are FIRE.

surfstar
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by surfstar » Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:45 am

"Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue..."

us:
"Not sure we could work for the rest of our lives...there are so many better things to do..."

Seriously.
FIRE is a Catch-22 for many (assuming self-earned). To become that successful, it usually requires a certain amount of work/drive/initiative/etc. Most of those people enjoy working and the success [money] it brings.

On the other hand, we dream of all of the fun things that we do on weekends and vacations and would love to do that full time and never have to work again. So we save. Enjoy our time off [though limited] now and continue to do the things we love while looking forward to being able to do them full-time (likely FIRE at age 50/52 in a dozen years).

We'd be happy to take contributions from all of those who have "enough" already, yet continue to work b/c they can't think of anything better to do. We'll happily do that better-than-work thing for you and we could even start a blog to let the donors see all the wonderful things that their contributions have enabled us to do.

There's a whole world out there to explore. New things to see and do. Many beautiful places to go before you get too old.
I know what my office/desk look like.

I don't know what's worse: having the ability to FIRE, but having nothing better to spend your time doing; or dreaming of better things to do and not being able to do them. Actually, I think its the former.
Cheers to your success :beer and here's to hoping that you may find something that is more worthwhile than working :sharebeer

Goal33
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by Goal33 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:20 am

I don’t understand why you’re holding so much cash instead of taking care of those mortgages.
A man with one watch always knows what time it is; a man with two watches is never sure.

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dmk395
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by dmk395 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:41 pm

Goal33 wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 10:20 am
I don’t understand why you’re holding so much cash instead of taking care of those mortgages.
I will flip a house on occasion. With that I need access to large amounts of cash.

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dmk395
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by dmk395 » Sun Aug 04, 2019 12:43 pm

FI4LIFE wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 12:01 pm
Go seasonal with the the business and hire a management company for the rentals.
I am more or less able to take 2 full months off over the winter, which is awesome. Except for with the rentals you do get the occasion heat emergency etc. This is really the only tough thing to deal with.....

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FIREchief
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by FIREchief » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:05 pm

Strayshot wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:29 am
FIREchief wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:44 pm
Strayshot wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:43 pm
I really don’t get the whole FIRE thing. Other than being good blog and documentary fodder, I agree with others in this thread that most people in who have the option of FIRE would see it as a horrible and boring.
Most?! :?
Yes, most. Like a term that implies a large-ish percentage of the population.

Most folks who can actually become “financially independent” way before FRA based on their own hard work (and not a trust fund, large inheritance, lottery win, etc) aren’t wired to just stop. Sometimes they aren’t even wired to cut back. Lots of famous examples (Elon Musk, sells PayPal and rather than buy a yacht and hang out he pursues companies/technology in two of the most difficult industries around) but lots of “nobody” examples too. A family member was FI at 38, got bored by 40 and now owns a vineyard and a bank a decade-ish later.
Well, I guess we'll just disagree then. "Lots of famous examples" + "A family member" hardly equals "most."
That’s why I don’t get the whole FIRE thing and think it is really just a term and concept invented to appeal to a mostly millennial population in a philosophical sense while actually supporting a whole new industry of people monetizing it, many of whom claim they are FIRE.
You're obviously looking at this from a different vantage point then I am. I have little exposure to millennials. My crowd is mostly a bunch of old guys and gals who worked for decades at Megacorp. For those who were financially able, the FIRE rate was over 90% (and this is NOT a small sample). Of those, about 20% returned to the scene of the crime for a part time gig with some health insurance. The rest found much better things to do with their time. Of course, to each their own. :sharebeer
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.

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White Coat Investor
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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by White Coat Investor » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:17 pm

dmk395 wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:27 am
HomeStretch wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 7:22 am
Sounds like you are doing great.

IMO where you go next at age 40 is dependent on your long term goals. How much do you need to fund your retirement expenses (net of retirement income) and by what age do you need to hit this number?

Once you identify the how much more you need to accumulate and the number of years you have to fund it, use that information to guide your decisions on what to do next with the hours you work, how you handle your rental properties and your exit strategy from your business.

Good point. Thank you. Originally I planned on exiting at 40, but realized I'd get bored. Started hiring out more things to limit hours. Maybe I will half fire...if there's a term....ha
I think half-time work is awesome. I like it so much I'm doing it with two different jobs at the same time. :)
1) Invest you must 2) Time is your friend 3) Impulse is your enemy | 4) Basic arithmetic works 5) Stick to simplicity 6) Stay the course

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Re: Not sure I could FIRE...boredom might ensue...

Post by KyleAAA » Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:34 pm

FIREchief wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 1:05 pm
Strayshot wrote:
Sun Aug 04, 2019 8:29 am
FIREchief wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 6:44 pm
Strayshot wrote:
Sat Aug 03, 2019 4:43 pm
I really don’t get the whole FIRE thing. Other than being good blog and documentary fodder, I agree with others in this thread that most people in who have the option of FIRE would see it as a horrible and boring.
Most?! :?
Yes, most. Like a term that implies a large-ish percentage of the population.

Most folks who can actually become “financially independent” way before FRA based on their own hard work (and not a trust fund, large inheritance, lottery win, etc) aren’t wired to just stop. Sometimes they aren’t even wired to cut back. Lots of famous examples (Elon Musk, sells PayPal and rather than buy a yacht and hang out he pursues companies/technology in two of the most difficult industries around) but lots of “nobody” examples too. A family member was FI at 38, got bored by 40 and now owns a vineyard and a bank a decade-ish later.
Well, I guess we'll just disagree then. "Lots of famous examples" + "A family member" hardly equals "most."
That’s why I don’t get the whole FIRE thing and think it is really just a term and concept invented to appeal to a mostly millennial population in a philosophical sense while actually supporting a whole new industry of people monetizing it, many of whom claim they are FIRE.
You're obviously looking at this from a different vantage point then I am. I have little exposure to millennials. My crowd is mostly a bunch of old guys and gals who worked for decades at Megacorp. For those who were financially able, the FIRE rate was over 90% (and this is NOT a small sample). Of those, about 20% returned to the scene of the crime for a part time gig with some health insurance. The rest found much better things to do with their time. Of course, to each their own. :sharebeer
Yeah, I’m fairly certain the “most” label is wrong. It’s the opposite. Maybe people do start a business, but so what? Sipping cocktails on a beach gets boring after a few days and people like to feel productive, especially younger people. It’s not like running a $300k website requires much effort.

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