Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

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rchansler
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Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by rchansler » Tue May 14, 2019 10:49 pm

My wife has to roll over her retirement and we are considering Vanguard or Fidelity. Which one has better advisor support for novice investors?

megabad
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by megabad » Tue May 14, 2019 11:03 pm

If your primary goal is a dedicated CFP investment advisor and you have well over 250k that an advisor would handle, I would say Fidelity (just my opinion). They have brick and mortar offices and a much more developed advisor structure. For these benefits, you will pay many times what the Vanguard PAS costs. For each million this is something like $8k per year extra so you need to be sure you want this service. This is like asking is a Ferrari better than a Toyota. Yes in some ways, but it is also very expensive. Only you can decide if it is worth it.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by RickBoglehead » Wed May 15, 2019 5:14 am

rchansler wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:49 pm
My wife has to roll over her retirement and we are considering Vanguard or Fidelity. Which one has better advisor support for novice investors?
What does advisor support mean?

As a new member of the forum, have you read the Wiki? Or The Boglehead's Guide to Investing?

As a famous movie line went, "We don't need no stinkin' advisors!"

"Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!" is a widely quoted paraphrase of a line of dialogue from the 1948 film The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

student
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by student » Wed May 15, 2019 5:38 am

Neither. You do not need an advisor. If you are not someone that who likes to take care of investing, buy one target-date INDEX fund. If you are willing to be somewhat involved, do a 3-fund porfortlio.

dbr
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by dbr » Wed May 15, 2019 8:19 am

For a novice investor relying on an investment company for support is a mistake. The first step is to educate yourself by reading, going to "Getting Started" on the Wiki, and reading and asking here. That said, such help as Vanguard VPAS might be useful. I would be a little wary of Fidelity as you could end up paying an advisor you don't want to pay and getting put in more expensive funds you don't want. Fidelity may have a low cost advisory method you could investigate, but be careful.

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ruralavalon
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by ruralavalon » Wed May 15, 2019 8:32 am

rchansler wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:49 pm
My wife has to roll over her retirement and we are considering Vanguard or Fidelity. Which one has better advisor support for novice investors?
My personal preference is Vanguard, when I was novice they were very helpful and provided that all I needed or wanted when I rolled over my 401k and moved other accounts.

I suggest that any novice read one or two good books on general investing. WIki article, "Books: Recommendations and Reviews".
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

TexasRon
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by TexasRon » Wed May 15, 2019 8:49 am

rchansler wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:49 pm
My wife has to roll over her retirement and we are considering Vanguard or Fidelity. Which one has better advisor support for novice investors?
I recently transitioned away from a Merrill Lynch advisor to Vanguard's advisory service. I have been very pleased. With this said... I do plan to go on my own within the next 12 months. This forum is all I need. In fact I recently reconstructed my 401k portfolio (not with Vanguard) with nothing but Boglehead advice. Check it out if you're interested in how the Boglehead's can and will help: viewtopic.php?p=4543242#p4532545

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SevenBridgesRoad
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by SevenBridgesRoad » Wed May 15, 2019 8:58 am

dbr wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:19 am
For a novice investor relying on an investment company for support is a mistake. The first step is to educate yourself by reading, going to "Getting Started" on the Wiki, and reading and asking here...
This is excellent advice from dbr and others. I am a long-recovering Fidelity Advisory patient. They will be extremely nice. They will get to know you. They will make everything seem impossibly complicated. They will make your portfolio impossibility complicated. They will extract a lot of money from you. They will make it seem difficult to leave their grasp. One day you’ll wake up and notice that hand in your wallet, as the Advisor takes more of your money. You will decide to leave, but quitting can be painful. You can skip all that.

The first step to recovery of course is prevention. Take a few days. Learn here about the importance of low costs. Learn here about the incredible simplicity and effectiveness of three funds or even one fund.
Retired 2018 Every day is Saturday | Simple is good | One Vanguard TDF except for a bunch of individual stocks = Still recovering from Fidelity AUM experience years ago | Sleeping well at night

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Earl Lemongrab
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by Earl Lemongrab » Wed May 15, 2019 8:50 pm

rchansler wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:49 pm
My wife has to roll over her retirement and we are considering Vanguard or Fidelity. Which one has better advisor support for novice investors?
First things first. What is her "retirement" and why does she have to roll it over? Do you mean a retirement account like a 401(k), or a cash out of a pension plan?
This week's fortune cookie: "Your financial life will be secure and beneficial." So I got that going for me, which is nice.

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rchansler
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by rchansler » Thu May 16, 2019 12:55 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:14 am
rchansler wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:49 pm
My wife has to roll over her retirement and we are considering Vanguard or Fidelity. Which one has better advisor support for novice investors?
What does advisor support mean?

As a new member of the forum, have you read the Wiki? Or The Boglehead's Guide to Investing?

As a famous movie line went, "We don't need no stinkin' advisors!"

"Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!" is a widely quoted paraphrase of a line of dialogue from the 1948 film The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.
Vanguard has VPAS that provides you with a personal advisor for .3%. I don't know what kind of service Fidelity has, but I assume that have a similar service.

I have been reading The Boglehead's Guide to Investing, and I'm thankful for the knowledge it's given me so far, but, as a newbie, I was thinking an advisor would help for now until I gain more confidence and knowledge. I made some horrible stock investments when I was younger and I'm handling her retirement with kid gloves because it's considerably a lot money. I could decide against it later.

In full disclosure, I also have my retirement in Edward Jones, and I want to move it over to either Vanguard or Fidelity, along with my wife's, once we decide which one would work best for us. So I currently have an advisor at 1% annually. I will say my IRA has done very well over the years, which is why I'm leaning towards using an advisor service when I move my money to Vanguard or Fidelity.

I'm also open minded when I comes to hearing you out about why I wouldn't need an advisor, especially if it could save me money. 0.3% is better than 1%, but it's still a lot of money in the long run.

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Wiggums
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by Wiggums » Thu May 16, 2019 1:44 am

dbr wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:19 am
For a novice investor relying on an investment company for support is a mistake. The first step is to educate yourself by reading, going to "Getting Started" on the Wiki, and reading and asking here. That said, such help as Vanguard VPAS might be useful. I would be a little wary of Fidelity as you could end up paying an advisor you don't want to pay and getting put in more expensive funds you don't want. Fidelity may have a low cost advisory method you could investigate, but be careful.
+1

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BL
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by BL » Thu May 16, 2019 2:01 am

Wiggums wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:44 am
dbr wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:19 am
For a novice investor relying on an investment company for support is a mistake. The first step is to educate yourself by reading, going to "Getting Started" on the Wiki, and reading and asking here. That said, such help as Vanguard VPAS might be useful. I would be a little wary of Fidelity as you could end up paying an advisor you don't want to pay and getting put in more expensive funds you don't want. Fidelity may have a low cost advisory method you could investigate, but be careful.
+1
+2
Vanguard has mostly low-ER funds and PAS advisers don't work on commission so they don't have the conflict of interest you might find elsewhere. Fidelity does have low-ER funds if you choose carefully, but most of their funds are higher-ERs and they might easily lead you to those on top of an advisor fee. That brokerage is fine and has good service if you know exactly what you want to invest in and don't get talked into high-cost funds and advice. Most Bogleheads are DIY folks, so don't need an advisor and can stand their ground about their low-ER funds when approached by advisors at places like Fidelity, so they are safe enough. Salespersons can spot hesitant and uncertain potential customers and they will probably attempt to reel them in.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by RickBoglehead » Thu May 16, 2019 4:35 am

rchansler wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:55 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:14 am
rchansler wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:49 pm
My wife has to roll over her retirement and we are considering Vanguard or Fidelity. Which one has better advisor support for novice investors?
What does advisor support mean?

As a new member of the forum, have you read the Wiki? Or The Boglehead's Guide to Investing?

As a famous movie line went, "We don't need no stinkin' advisors!"

"Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!" is a widely quoted paraphrase of a line of dialogue from the 1948 film The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.
Vanguard has VPAS that provides you with a personal advisor for .3%. I don't know what kind of service Fidelity has, but I assume that have a similar service.

I have been reading The Boglehead's Guide to Investing, and I'm thankful for the knowledge it's given me so far, but, as a newbie, I was thinking an advisor would help for now until I gain more confidence and knowledge. I made some horrible stock investments when I was younger and I'm handling her retirement with kid gloves because it's considerably a lot money. I could decide against it later.

In full disclosure, I also have my retirement in Edward Jones, and I want to move it over to either Vanguard or Fidelity, along with my wife's, once we decide which one would work best for us. So I currently have an advisor at 1% annually. I will say my IRA has done very well over the years, which is why I'm leaning towards using an advisor service when I move my money to Vanguard or Fidelity.

I'm also open minded when I comes to hearing you out about why I wouldn't need an advisor, especially if it could save me money. 0.3% is better than 1%, but it's still a lot of money in the long run.
EJ has likely not provided returns that would be in line with Vanguard's low expense funds. You don't need an advisor to invest in 3 funds. PAS is fine, you could use them to change everything over, then drop them.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

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dogagility
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by dogagility » Thu May 16, 2019 5:54 am

BL wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:01 am
Wiggums wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 1:44 am
dbr wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 8:19 am
For a novice investor relying on an investment company for support is a mistake. The first step is to educate yourself by reading, going to "Getting Started" on the Wiki, and reading and asking here. That said, such help as Vanguard VPAS might be useful. I would be a little wary of Fidelity as you could end up paying an advisor you don't want to pay and getting put in more expensive funds you don't want. Fidelity may have a low cost advisory method you could investigate, but be careful.
+1
+2
Vanguard has mostly low-ER funds and PAS advisers don't work on commission so they don't have the conflict of interest you might find elsewhere. Fidelity does have low-ER funds if you choose carefully, but most of their funds are higher-ERs and they might easily lead you to those on top of an advisor fee. That brokerage is fine and has good service if you know exactly what you want to invest in and don't get talked into high-cost funds and advice. Most Bogleheads are DIY folks, so don't need an advisor and can stand their ground about their low-ER funds when approached by advisors at places like Fidelity, so they are safe enough. Salespersons can spot hesitant and uncertain potential customers and they will probably attempt to reel them in.
+3
If you need an adviser until you are comfortable, use Vanguard's PAS. Fidelity is a great investment house for the DIY investor, not so great for the person wanting an advisor because of the higher fee.

I would also suggest you move all of your money out of EJ. You've stated it's done well the past few years but compared to what? I suspect an apples-to-apples comparison against an index fund would show you did worse because of the 1-2% in fees EJ has charged you. This may seem like a small percentage, but it has an insidious way of eating away a large amount of your investment due to compounding. There's a recent thread started by Almond on this topic... you should take a gander.
Taking "risk" since 1995.

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ruralavalon
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by ruralavalon » Thu May 16, 2019 1:37 pm

rchansler wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 12:55 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Wed May 15, 2019 5:14 am
rchansler wrote:
Tue May 14, 2019 10:49 pm
My wife has to roll over her retirement and we are considering Vanguard or Fidelity. Which one has better advisor support for novice investors?
What does advisor support mean?

As a new member of the forum, have you read the Wiki? Or The Boglehead's Guide to Investing?

As a famous movie line went, "We don't need no stinkin' advisors!"

"Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!" is a widely quoted paraphrase of a line of dialogue from the 1948 film The Treasure of the Sierra Madre.
Vanguard has VPAS that provides you with a personal advisor for .3%. I don't know what kind of service Fidelity has, but I assume that have a similar service.

I have been reading The Boglehead's Guide to Investing, and I'm thankful for the knowledge it's given me so far, but, as a newbie, I was thinking an advisor would help for now until I gain more confidence and knowledge. I made some horrible stock investments when I was younger and I'm handling her retirement with kid gloves because it's considerably a lot money. I could decide against it later.

In full disclosure, I also have my retirement in Edward Jones, and I want to move it over to either Vanguard or Fidelity, along with my wife's, once we decide which one would work best for us. So I currently have an advisor at 1% annually. I will say my IRA has done very well over the years, which is why I'm leaning towards using an advisor service when I move my money to Vanguard or Fidelity.

I'm also open minded when I comes to hearing you out about why I wouldn't need an advisor, especially if it could save me money. 0.3% is better than 1%, but it's still a lot of money in the long run.
In my opinion it is very important for you to escape from the high fees at Edward Jones, even more important than rolling over your wife's retirement account (401k?).

For funds and location of accounts I usually suggest
1) Vanguard,
2) Fidelity, or
3) Schwab
in that order of preference.

I prefer using traditional mutual funds (rather than ETFs), and Vanguard has by far the largest selection of low expense traditional mutual funds offered anywhere. Both Vanguard and Fidelity have a larger selection of low expense index funds than does Schwab. We have all of our investing accounts at Vanguard, and use only Vanguard index funds.

Vanguard has by far the largest array of no transaction fee ETFS. In addition to its own ETFs Vanguard offers roughly 1800 commission free ETFs of other firms including those of Schwab, State Street (SPDR) and BlackRock (iShares). Kiplinger (07/02/2018), "Vanguard to Ditch Commissions on Most ETFs".

I prefer the convenience of having all investing accounts at one place. Both Fidelity and Schwab offer some banking services. I prefer a bank for banking functions. For banking functions (checking account, debit card, credit cards) we use a bank with a branch near our home.

I like Vanguard's mutual structure, Vanguard is owned by the Vanguard funds, has no other shareholders, and so conflicts of interest with shareholders don't exist.

Both Fidelity and Schwab have local customer service offices in some cities, but Vanguard does not. None have a local office near me, so that was not a factor in my choice.

A local customer service office is important for some, but in my opinion not at all necessary. We have had no problems with the rare phone consultations that were necessary. I call Vanguard once per year at most, some years not at all, and always received prompt, accurate, professional advice and service.

Once a reasonable investing plan is set up, it requires almost no attention. Some people prefer the customer service at Fidelity or Schwab.

Schwab does not offer a total international stock index fund, both Vanguard and Fidelity do. (At Schwab you need to use multiple ETFs to get total international stock coverage.) Vanguard stock index funds are more tax-efficient, which is important if using a taxable account. Vanguard offers a larger selection of tax-exempt bond funds (including state specific funds) than either Schwab or Fidelity, which is important if using a taxable account and in a high tax bracket. Vanguard offers a small-cap value index fund, but Schwab and Fidelity do not, which is important if interested in value investing. Vanguard money market funds (including the sweep fund) pay a better return than funds at Fidelity or Schwab, which is important for investors who desire a significant cash allocation.

Fidelity and Schwab have no initial minimum investment required, which is helpful for a new investor with a small amount to invest. Most Vanguard funds require an initial minimum investment of $3k, or just $1k for target retirement funds or Vanguard STAR Fund (VGSTX).

There is a lot of personal preference involved in selecting a firm for your accounts.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

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Elric
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by Elric » Thu May 16, 2019 2:24 pm

I'm surprised no one has mentioned Schwab's new ultra low fee advisory service (less then Vanguard's). I don't currently use any advisor service. Schwab is currently my broker and I own several Vanguard mutual funds and ETF's. See https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/in ... t_advisory
"No man is free who works for a living." | Illya Kuryakin

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patrick013
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by patrick013 » Thu May 16, 2019 4:24 pm

Elric wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 2:24 pm
I'm surprised no one has mentioned Schwab's new ultra low fee advisory service (less then Vanguard's). I don't currently use any advisor service. Schwab is currently my broker and I own several Vanguard mutual funds and ETF's. See https://www.schwab.com/public/schwab/in ... t_advisory
Simply you could invest in 2 or 3 total market funds with some guidance as to whether you are aggressive or conservative or somewhere in between, and perhaps a tilt or two.

Schwab wants to discern 53 ETF's in 20 asset classes. No doubt you'll have a diversified portfolio, regular rebalancing, tax-loss harvesting, and proper account type selection, even a trust. But the market is going to crash at times anyway whether you have 3 funds or 5 or 10 funds. But for just a few hundred dollars a year it might be interesting to see what they come up with whether you do it or not, whether the account is discretionary or non-discretionary.

I'm inclined to think they're better for discretionary accounts where higher risk investments are common. Some of their asset classes are borderline investment grade so would end up with lower AA's hopefully.
age in bonds, buy-and-hold, 10 year business cycle

retiredjg
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by retiredjg » Thu May 16, 2019 4:39 pm

Many people can learn to do this on their own. It does not need to be complex or hard.

If you feel you are not ready for that, I would ONLY suggest Vanguard's Personal Advisory Service. Even if you get the worst CFP they have to offer, the portfolio will be reasonable. After a few years, once you see how it works, you can take over for yourself without a portfolio overhaul.

Fidelity also has many good CFPs, but you never know what you are going to get with them. It could be someone with your interests in mind. Or it might not be and they may sell you a load of garbage. Whichever you get, the costs will be significantly higher. And if/when you want to leave, an expensive portfolio overhaul might be required.

Do not consider any of the other places like Edward Jones, Raymond James, LPL, Ameriprise, etc. Their costs will rob you of your profits.

Whichever you choose, you need to learn some basics. Start here. Be sure to watch the videos.

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Getting_started

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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by Elric » Thu May 16, 2019 4:48 pm

patrick013 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:24 pm
Schwab wants to discern 53 ETF's in 20 asset classes.
Do they tend to put folks using this type of robo-plus service into that many, or just 4-6 (plus cash)? I'm curious.
"No man is free who works for a living." | Illya Kuryakin

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patrick013
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Re: Vanguard or Fidelity (advisor support)

Post by patrick013 » Thu May 16, 2019 5:13 pm

Elric wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:48 pm
patrick013 wrote:
Thu May 16, 2019 4:24 pm
Schwab wants to discern 53 ETF's in 20 asset classes.
Do they tend to put folks using this type of robo-plus service into that many, or just 4-6 (plus cash)? I'm curious.
Well you could get Intl REIT, Commodities, US Preferred, and Intl Small Cap Value at least. :)


One thing good about US investments like TSM or the 500 there is plenty of info available. PE's especially are easy to find and index revenues as well.
age in bonds, buy-and-hold, 10 year business cycle

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