I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

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zachslow
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I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by zachslow » Tue May 07, 2019 1:17 am

...It was tough. He didn't make it easy on me! He's asked me to just think about it over the weekend before I pull the plug.

I actually owe him a lot as he has helped me get a solid savings plan in order when I was younger and financial inept.

I'm now 40 and after reading a few investment books recently, I quickly realized the 1.5% he's been charging me is going to murder me in the long run. My plan is to switch over to a two-fund index fund at Vanguard.

So I tried to fire him today and it was tough.

He made a lot of arguments that were confusing and frankly over my head. He also said he's immediately lower the fee to 1%. I like him a lot and it was hard trying to break up with him. When he was scrambling to keep me, he pulled up some quick data on my portfolio. YTD it is up 16.90%. in 2018 it was -8.47%. Since inception (he moved firms, so the inception date at his new firm is 4/16) is up 10.21% average per year. Those numbers are after his fees are taken out.

I have $640,000 with him. It's currently divided between 4 stocks, 6 mutual funds and 3 ETFs.

If I were to switch over to a Vanguard account, with a plan to reallocate to a two-fund portfolio, what's the best way to go about doing that? The tax part is complicated so I'm curious the best way to switch things over and reallocate.

I'm feeling bad about pulling the plug on him after 12 years, so I'd love any thoughts or data about why this would be better for me in the long run! It'll help me make a final decision this weekend.

And lastly, do financial planner at Raymond James get incentivized by putting me into specific funds? I've been reading online about trailer fees and it blew my mind that it's legal.

Thanks in advance!
Last edited by zachslow on Tue May 07, 2019 1:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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FiveK
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by FiveK » Tue May 07, 2019 1:50 am

zachslow, welcome to the forum.
zachslow wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:17 am
When he was scrambling to keep me, he pulled up some quick data on my portfolio. ...divided between 4 stocks, 6 mutual funds and 3 ETFs.
YTD it is up 16.90%. in 2018 it was -8.47%. Since inception (he moved firms, so the inception date at his new firm is 4/16) is up 10.21%. Those numbers are after his fees are taken out.
Perhaps compare that to S&P 500 Return Calculator, with Dividend Reinvestment. If you are up 10.21% total since April 2016, for a 100% stock portfolio, that's very bad in comparison to what a simple S&P 500 (or total US stock market) index fund would have done. If the 10.21% is a CAGR, then it's merely not good.
If I were to switch over to a Vanguard account, with a plan to reallocate to a two-fund portfolio, what's the best way to go about doing that? The tax part is complicated so I'm curious the best way to switch things over and reallocate.
Depends on your overall tax situation and desired Asset Allocation going forward. Need more info.
I'm feeling bad about pulling the plug on him after 12 years, so I'd love any thoughts or data about why this would be better for me in the long run! It'll help me make a final decision this weekend.
It's not personal, just good business for you to move, now that you are better educated.

mindgap
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by mindgap » Tue May 07, 2019 1:54 am

Good job. I think taking your money in your own hands is a good thing. Now you can get financial products without all the overhead you don’t really need anymore.

If I would be sorry? No.
In the freelance world clients come and go. Clients needs and budgets change so there’s is no need to feel sorry for something like that. You made a good decision for your financial future and of course he is now trying to keep you. You are a cash cow for him. Easy as that.

Do it your way. You paid your dues.

mega317
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by mega317 » Tue May 07, 2019 2:26 am

zachslow wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:17 am
I actually owe him a lot as he has helped me get a solid savings plan in order when I was younger and financial inept.
Do you think you owe him more than the 9k you paid this year plus whatever you paid the other 11 years?
He made a lot of arguments that were confusing and frankly over my head.
That was 100% practiced and intentional.
He also said he's immediately lower the fee to 1%.
LOL. A 33% discount just like that! Wonder why it was so easy.


OP, you rock. Stay strong.

BarbBrooklyn
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Tue May 07, 2019 2:37 am

Are these funds/stocks in a taxable account or in a Tax deferred account?
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

Cody6136
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by Cody6136 » Tue May 07, 2019 2:55 am

zachslow wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:17 am
...It was tough. He didn't make it easy on me! He's asked me to just think about it over the weekend before I pull the plug.

I actually owe him a lot as he has helped me get a solid savings plan in order when I was younger and financial inept.

I'm now 40 and after reading a few investment books recently, I quickly realized the 1.5% he's been charging me is going to murder me in the long run. My plan is to switch over to a two-fund index fund at Vanguard.

So I tried to fire him today and it was tough.

He made a lot of arguments that were confusing and frankly over my head. He also said he's immediately lower the fee to 1%. I like him a lot and it was hard trying to break up with him. When he was scrambling to keep me, he pulled up some quick data on my portfolio. YTD it is up 16.90%. in 2018 it was -8.47%. Since inception (he moved firms, so the inception date at his new firm is 4/16) is up 10.21% average per year. Those numbers are after his fees are taken out.

I have $640,000 with him. It's currently divided between 4 stocks, 6 mutual funds and 3 ETFs.

If I were to switch over to a Vanguard account, with a plan to reallocate to a two-fund portfolio, what's the best way to go about doing that? The tax part is complicated so I'm curious the best way to switch things over and reallocate.

I'm feeling bad about pulling the plug on him after 12 years, so I'd love any thoughts or data about why this would be better for me in the long run! It'll help me make a final decision this weekend.

And lastly, do financial planner at Raymond James get incentivized by putting me into specific funds? I've been reading online about trailer fees and it blew my mind that it's legal.

Thanks in advance!
Hi there. You may want to review my thread...What, if Anything, do I owe This Guy?

I got a huge amount of solid feedback and a bit of snark but the answer is nothing.

Barb, you gave at the office. You've outgrown him.

Cody

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peterinjapan
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by peterinjapan » Tue May 07, 2019 3:06 am

Great job. I also fired my investing guy, who charged me 1.4% to own funds that sometimes charged me 1% or more. He tried to put me in load funds but caught the fire in my eye when he suggested it. I realized I could make as many mistakes as he made, and for free.

Most angering of all, I was ready to go in guns blazing in Amazon when it dropped to $490, but he talked me out of it. I could strangle him...

Franklint
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by Franklint » Tue May 07, 2019 3:20 am

zachslow wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:17 am

I'm feeling bad about pulling the plug on him after 12 years, so I'd love any thoughts or data about why this would be better for me in the long run! It'll help me make a final decision this weekend.

And lastly, do financial planner at Raymond James get incentivized by putting me into specific funds? I've been reading online about trailer fees and it blew my mind that it's legal.

Thanks in advance!
Good for you...no brainer. You’ll thank yourself in the future.

grettman
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by grettman » Tue May 07, 2019 4:00 am

I am sure the advisor slept well at night charging you 1.5% knowing that this is a significant headwind for your finances.

It is only fair that you let yourself sleep well at night by not letting him charge you 1.5%.

As someone else said, this is business.

BarbBrooklyn
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by BarbBrooklyn » Tue May 07, 2019 4:11 am

You could sign up with Vanguard PAS for 0.3% if you're nervous about transitioning.
BarbBrooklyn | "The enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan."

PQ12$
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by PQ12$ » Tue May 07, 2019 4:40 am

Based on a quick read of your post it sounds like you had the conversation before you were really ready (emotionally and intellectually) to move.

I fired my guy a year ago after 10 years and it was also hard -- the hardest part of the whole thing. The rest was pretty easy but took me 3 years of reading/worrying etc. before I was ready to do it.

Call Vanguard and they will assign somebody to help you work thru the mechanics of moving your money.
Transfer your assets "in kind" to Vanguard.
Figure out tax implications of liquidating, decide what to do when before you sell anything.
Liquidate that portfolio of 8-10 positions to cash (for about a day)
Get into a 2-3 fund Vanguard portfolio per your preferred asset location

Based on the tone/reluctance/concern in your post (which I may have misread) the easiest/safest thing for you to do is use the Vanguard PAS service to help make this move for you. It will get you there safely, your fees will plummet sooner than later, and then you can fire PAS when you feel ready to own this 100% yourself.

student
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by student » Tue May 07, 2019 5:08 am

I am only addressing the issue that you have raised and not the tax consequence since you did not ask. Perhaps you don't have to think of it as firing your advisor, but you have graduated and moving on. I would email the advisor thanking him for his service but you are ready for the next phrase of investment. Even at 1%, it is $6,400 a year. This is after the ER of your underling funds. So it is safe to say that you will save at least $6,400 a year. Median household income in the US is about $62,000. So that's over 10% of it. Can you think of a better way to use $6,400 a year? You can do it yourself with a 2-fund, 3-fund or one target-date fund.

inbox788
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by inbox788 » Tue May 07, 2019 5:24 am

zachslow wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:17 am
He made a lot of arguments that were confusing and frankly over my head. He also said he's immediately lower the fee to 1%.

YTD it is up 16.90%. in 2018 it was -8.47%.

I have $640,000 with him. It's currently divided between 4 stocks, 6 mutual funds and 3 ETFs.

And lastly, do financial planner at Raymond James get incentivized by putting me into specific funds? I've been reading online about trailer fees and it blew my mind that it's legal.
He's probably collected around $100,000 in AUM at 1.5%, and going forward with the account growing, it will most likely be higher, so it's not surprising he's willing to take a lower fee, but still quite significant. You'll soon have $1M and at 1% over a decade, that's another $100,000 in fees.

If he's unable to explain these confusing things, he's doing a poor job communicating or he's purposely trying to confuse you.

I wouldn't be surprised if they had some conflict of interest.

https://www.advisorperspectives.com/art ... -standards

What are the specific stocks, mutual funds and ETFs (name, type of fund, and ticker symbols if available)? What is the cost basis and current value? That will help you decide tax issues.

FWIW, it looks like he's got you in a higher volatility position than the market with higher YTD, but worse loss last year. This higher risk/higher reward can pay off, but it's a wild ride.

Looking at wrong comparison. SP500 is up almost 20% YTD and -4% for 2018, so he's under performing by 3-4%!?! The 1.5% is the AUM wrap fee, so the other 1-2% is probably from the fund fees. If he had you in some bonds, you wouldn't expect the 2018 results to be so bad!

https://ycharts.com/indicators/sandp_50 ... urn_annual
Last edited by inbox788 on Tue May 07, 2019 5:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue May 07, 2019 5:24 am

Do NOT email him. You went about this all wrong. Pull funds without discussing it with him.

If he is with Raymond James, yes he is incentivized to put your money in certain funds.

Remember, this is a sales professional. He is trained in refuting every argument you can make. Don't waste your breath.

Have Vanguard pull your funds, in kind, asap.

Vanguard 50p Index Fund is up 17.7% YTD...
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Tue May 07, 2019 6:36 am, edited 1 time in total.
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inbox788
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by inbox788 » Tue May 07, 2019 5:42 am

PQ12$ wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 4:40 am
Figure out tax implications of liquidating, decide what to do when before you sell anything.
Liquidate that portfolio of 8-10 positions to cash (for about a day)
Get into a 2-3 fund Vanguard portfolio per your preferred asset location
I met one of these "advisors" and he tried to hook me in by showing a dozen funds he could be using (throwing around "tactical asset allocation"). They all were active funds with expensive fees. I created a passive index fund to track these funds and followed them for a while. They'd go back and forth, but slowly over time, the passive funds drifted ahead, probably from the lower fees. After about 2 years, I think only 2 or 3 of the recommended active funds was ahead of the passive fund. And an equal weighting of all the funds (passive or active) didn't beat the sp500.

I don't know if he actually used these funds or picked them because they had performed in the past and looked good. Of course, he would say he would pick "better" funds if I invested with him, but I have no reason to believe he has such skills.

Arizona psychic injured after car hit restaurant jokes he 'didn't foresee it happening
https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/lo ... 378599001/

As long as you're invested in the market, your performance will zig and zag compared to other similar investments. Don't get completely out of the market and miss out on a big rise. Split it into about 3-5 lumps and convert them from one type of equity to another so you're only out of position for a small fraction of your portfolio.

k3vb0t
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by k3vb0t » Tue May 07, 2019 6:00 am

Wait, so you didn’t go through with it?

All of the data is this: how much would you pay for similar or better results compared to what you’re paying now, and why was he so fast to give you an immediate 33% discount?

The answer is you’re paying an insane amount, and have been, which has benefited the advisor and not you. Full stop.

Do the math in what you’ll pay in advisor fees + expense ratios compared to just significantly lower expense ratios if you go to a 2-3 fund portfolio.

Or consider many around here think a safe withdrawal rate is 3% or 4%. His 1.5% fee is (and has been) a massive cut on your portfolio.

Stop enriching your advisor and start enriching yourself. Call Vanguard and have them make the switch for you. Thank him with a card later.

Van
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by Van » Tue May 07, 2019 6:01 am

This guy has been robbing you blind charging 1.5% per year and you feel bad about pulling the plug?

Come on man!

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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Tue May 07, 2019 6:09 am

I always translate % into real money. Just the 1.5% is $9600 for the 1.5% alone, let alone ER, loads and kick backs. By comparison, for my $2.4M portfolio, I pay under $500.

You say you owe this guy a lot for helping you. You owe him nothing. You've paid him $100k in fees over the years!
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gd
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by gd » Tue May 07, 2019 6:36 am

His/your numbers are meaningless out of context. Using backtesting with something like Portfolio Visualizer, how do they compare with your intended plan? How do they compare with your intended plan after you pay the capital gains taxes? This may be difficult to do clearly if you've got a lot of in-and-out in our current account.

I recently took responsibility for an actively managed account. Very careful analysis showed decades of stockbrokers and fees did about the same as my 50/50 plan would have. I moved it anyway for other reasons, but it was a curious surprise. I now have, by the way, an intractable tax problem to achieve my original plan.

The actual transfer is quite simple. You go to Vanguard or Fidelity, set up a new account, give them last month's statement, call your current brokerage and warn them, and a week later it's all in the other side. That's how it worked for me, anyway.

just1question
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by just1question » Tue May 07, 2019 6:37 am

Let me tell you something from personal experience: A FA is not your buddy, pal, or friend. In most cases, once you fire a financial advisor, you are essentially dead to him. That's not friendship. You will get over it quickly.

Mike Scott
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by Mike Scott » Tue May 07, 2019 6:44 am

One more in the chorus of just do it. It was a professional relationship and you are ready to move on. He got his fees and it is time for you and your money to move on. As others have said, the new place you end up will help you pull it so you don't have to keep listening to the hard sell.

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JPH
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by JPH » Tue May 07, 2019 6:51 am

Just imagine if your boss fired you because you were negatively impacting his income and you asked him to just think about it over the weekend. Would it work?
While the moments do summersaults into eternity | Cling to their coattails and beg them to stay - Townes Van Zandt

aristotelian
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by aristotelian » Tue May 07, 2019 6:54 am

OP, you can "fire him" simply by filling out a transfer form for Vanguard or whomever you select. They will take care of the transfer. You can call the adviser as a courtesy after you have signed the papers. At that point, the decision is made and there is nothing for him to argue. Talking to him is a waste of his time and only allows him to question your decision.

You already paid for his services. You owe him nothing more than that.

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bottlecap
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by bottlecap » Tue May 07, 2019 6:56 am

I would be mad as hell that the guy immediately agreed to drop his fee by a third.

That's basically saying that the whole time he took you for a sucker that would pay far more than his firm was willing make off of you.

I happened to get into a discussion with two salesmen over a beer on Friday afternoon. One of them openly admitted that he had no qualms charging his customers more than what was otherwise a fair deal. His argument was that they were suckers for paying more than market and they deserved to be parted from their money.

You're doing the right thing. And 1.5% is not all you've been paying. Those funds are changing an extra 1%, too.

You are doing the right thing.

JT

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southerndoc
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by southerndoc » Tue May 07, 2019 6:56 am

This guy is not your friend. He is only interested in your money. Unless you guys hang out by going to ballgames, dinner, etc. without them being a sales pitch.

1.5% is a lot. If he was your friend, he would've lowered your rate to 1% without you telling him you're leaving.

You're 40? You have 20-30 years of investing left. $6k/year is your max IRA contribution annually. Do you want to max out his IRA each year? $6k with only a 6% return over 25 years is over $25,000. If you do this annually for 25 years (not even counting the increased fees each year as your portfolio grows), then you're going to waste more than $350,000.

Again, he's a sales person and not your friend. The fact that they tried to complicate investing and confuse you attests to that. This is how an investment advisor works. They pray on your confusion to keep them in business. You can do better with a simple two or three fund portfolio.

You're on your way to becoming one of us!
Last edited by southerndoc on Tue May 07, 2019 6:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

david99
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by david99 » Tue May 07, 2019 6:56 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:24 am
Do NOT email him. You went about this all wrong. Pull funds without discussing it with him.

If he is with Raymond James, yes he is incentivized to put your money in certain funds.

Remember, this is a sales professional. He is trained in refuting every argument you can make. Don't waste your breath.

Have Vanguard pull your funds, in kind, asap.

Vanguard 50p Index Fund is up 17.7% YTD...
I agree that you are going about this all wrong. Don't speak with your advisor again. Simply call Vangaurd and tell them that you want to transfer your account.

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southerndoc
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by southerndoc » Tue May 07, 2019 6:57 am

We need a love button. :) david99 has an excellent point.

WhyNotUs
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by WhyNotUs » Tue May 07, 2019 7:12 am

Two thoughts
• It is your money, you can spend it as you like. If you want to spend it on your advisors retirement that is your prerogitive, see recent thread
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=217026&newpost=4532344

• You need to have a transition plan if the money is in taxable accounts. If it is in retirement accounts, then you can transfer and sell to buy low cost index funds without creating a taxable event. If the bulk of the money is in a taxable account, then you can transfer and figure out a sensible plan for repositioning with based on your tax situation with the help of a paid professional or paid advisor from VG.

I would not spend too much time on the incentives your advisor had to put you into your current mix plus their 1.5%, you have a fresh start and a good base of investment to move forward with your financial affairs. Hopefully, learned a lesson and move on, costs and fees matter... a lot.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX

rich126
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by rich126 » Tue May 07, 2019 7:24 am

I've always tried to keep business and friends/family separate. It makes things easier when you have to move on from a company/person.

I've heard too often "But he is a good guy", "He is a family friend", etc. That is no reason to use them for business.

I briefly used one investment person (he charged 1%) simply as a way to diverse my stock holdings (yeah, I know that doesn't fit here). After about a year or so I got tired of writing checks to cover his performance (about average) and moved that money over to Vanguard. I still invest in stocks but I do it myself. That way I know who to blame if it doesn't work out, and I don't have to pay someone to do it.

When it comes to medical, legal, financial stuff you should keep a distance from the person and keep it strictly professional.

bondsr4me
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by bondsr4me » Tue May 07, 2019 7:34 am

The easiest way to go about this is to contact the firm you want to use in the future, in this case it's Vanguard.

They will help you set up your account and THEY will take care of transferring your assets.
You do not need to contact your current broker friend.

If all of your current assets can be transferred IN-KIND to VG, there are NO tax implications; you are just changing firms and that's all.

Even tho' your broker friend is willing to lower his fee to 1%, that is still waaaaaay too much.

Just go ahead and do it and don't look back. Your broker friend won't go on food stamps because of your transfer.

It's YOUR money; not his.

Good Luck with your choice.

mptfan
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by mptfan » Tue May 07, 2019 7:35 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:24 am
Do NOT email him. You went about this all wrong. Pull funds without discussing it with him.
+1

mptfan
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by mptfan » Tue May 07, 2019 7:37 am

bottlecap wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:56 am
I would be mad as hell that the guy immediately agreed to drop his fee by a third.

That's basically saying that the whole time he took you for a sucker that would pay far more than his firm was willing make off of you.
That would be my first reaction too. And you still think this guy is your friend?

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dodecahedron
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by dodecahedron » Tue May 07, 2019 7:39 am

bondsr4me wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:34 am
The easiest way to go about this is to contact the firm you want to use in the future, in this case it's Vanguard.

They will help you set up your account and THEY will take care of transferring your assets.
You do not need to contact your current broker friend.
I agree that it is best always to initiate with the receiving institution (in this case Vanguard.) Occasionally there are logistical issues that require a telephone call to the current custodian BUT in my experience the best way to handle that is for your Vanguard contact to set up a three-way call and conference in the current custodian. My experience is that the current custodian is not going to make a sales pitch to retain the assets during such calls. It is a very expeditious and matter-of-fact conversation.

MikeG62
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by MikeG62 » Tue May 07, 2019 7:40 am

zachslow wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:17 am

So I tried to fire him today and it was tough.

He made a lot of arguments that were confusing and frankly over my head. He also said he's immediately lower the fee to 1%. I like him a lot and it was hard trying to break up with him.
I would tell him the decision has been made and you simply want to transfer your assets out (or if you can do it yourself online, just do it). If he pushes back, I'd tell him the fact the he's willing to drop his fee by 1/3rd translates into a acknowledgement that you have been overcharged in the past. You cannot and will not do business with anyone who overcharges their client. By point of fact, 1.5% is way above the norm for AUM fees. Thank him for his services in the past and move on. It's business - it's not personal.
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PQ12$
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by PQ12$ » Tue May 07, 2019 7:41 am

OP -- If you do decide to transfer your assets to Vanguard, or anybody, be sure you get all of the cost basis info for all of your holdings BEFORE you transfer. Take screen shots from your current brokerage account, get print outs, etc. as occasionally this can be tough to get once you've moved your money.

I got this tip from this board and it was a huge help -- the money transferred fine but somehow my cost basis for one of the 17 funds got lost in space. Had I not documented it before my move and been able to reference it I would have had a real problem completing my 2018 taxes.

X528
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by X528 » Tue May 07, 2019 7:43 am

"I've heard too often "But he is a good guy", "He is a family friend", etc. That is no reason to use them for business."

This. Financial divisors are essentially sales people. They are deliberately trained to give you this impression to gain your confidence and your business.

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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by X528 » Tue May 07, 2019 7:45 am

mptfan wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 7:35 am
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:24 am
Do NOT email him. You went about this all wrong. Pull funds without discussing it with him.
+1
This +2. Transfer your assets immediately if you can without any interaction with the adviser. The adviser and/or the firm may try to extract exit or account closing fees or some such.

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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by Strayshot » Tue May 07, 2019 7:47 am

OP,
You have been a victim of financial abuse for 11 years with your advisors obscene fees. Victims can often feel guilty about the abuse and make irrational decisions, including wanting to continue the relationship with the abuser or being swayed by their arguments that “it won’t happen again”.

Call Vanguard or Fidelity and initiate a transfer. Most assets should transfer in-kind, and for those that don’t so be it. There is a good likelihood your salesman put some of your holdings in things that made them more money but will lose you more money, it will be a small price to pay to avoid further abuse.

Good luck!

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8foot7
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by 8foot7 » Tue May 07, 2019 7:50 am

+1 to all the folks who said you already paid him 100k, so you owe him nothing. Here on the forum we would have taught you for free how to save.

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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by Call_Me_Op » Tue May 07, 2019 8:03 am

zachslow wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:17 am
I'm feeling bad about pulling the plug on him after 12 years, so I'd love any thoughts or data about why this would be better for me in the long run! It'll help me make a final decision this weekend.
Perhaps it won't be better for you (to break-up with him). You do not sound very confident in the investing arena. If you do break up, you need to commit to continuous learning.
Best regards, -Op | | "In the middle of difficulty lies opportunity." Einstein

cashmoney
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by cashmoney » Tue May 07, 2019 8:06 am

just1question wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 6:37 am
Let me tell you something from personal experience: A FA is not your buddy, pal, or friend. In most cases, once you fire a financial advisor, you are essentially dead to him. That's not friendship. You will get over it quickly.


Lets say FA is making about 9k in commish on your account.Do you think he would still like you if you offered to pay him a 5000 annual break up stipend after you moved your accounts.Heck I bet he would still like you fine if you offered to pay him only a 1000 annual break up stipend. Obviously this is absurd but it puts things in perspective on why your FA seems like a friendly guy..

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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by BogleMelon » Tue May 07, 2019 8:09 am

zachslow wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 1:17 am

I actually owe him a lot
No you do NOT! He made money out of you already. He took and still taking what you owe him instantly. So you owe him zero at this point.
I agree with others, do not take this personally. He probably more wealthy than you are, yet he is the one who is begging for you "to stay" so he can leach more out of your portfolio. He wants you to stay so HE can retire earlier, not you.
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by livesoft » Tue May 07, 2019 8:10 am

Clearly, the OP's FA had has lots of practice trying to retain clients. It is not their first rodeo.
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Stinky
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by Stinky » Tue May 07, 2019 8:11 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:24 am
Do NOT email him. You went about this all wrong. Pull funds without discussing it with him.

If he is with Raymond James, yes he is incentivized to put your money in certain funds.

Remember, this is a sales professional. He is trained in refuting every argument you can make. Don't waste your breath.

Have Vanguard pull your funds, in kind, asap.

Vanguard 50p Index Fund is up 17.7% YTD...
Excellent advice.

OP - please let us know how this all turns out. You have dozens of friends on this forum, all of whom are telling you to move on. You’ve paid your “advisor” handsomely in the past; time for a new chapter in your investing life.
It's a GREAT day to be alive - Travis Tritt

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Sandtrap
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by Sandtrap » Tue May 07, 2019 8:11 am

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 5:24 am
Do NOT email him. You went about this all wrong. Pull funds without discussing it with him.

If he is with Raymond James, yes he is incentivized to put your money in certain funds.

Remember, this is a sales professional. He is trained in refuting every argument you can make. Don't waste your breath.

Have Vanguard pull your funds, in kind, asap.

Vanguard 50p Index Fund is up 17.7% YTD...
+1
Yes yes yes
do it
do it now
You might have likely made his car lease payment and other bills for all of these years. There is nothing to feel "sorry" about. It's a "business relationship", not a friendship.

Then, follow up and edit your original post (pencil icon) to ". . . I fired my advisor today. . . happy. . happy. . . "
Last edited by Sandtrap on Tue May 07, 2019 8:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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zachslow
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by zachslow » Tue May 07, 2019 8:12 am

All,

Thank you so much.

I had already made up my mind. Just needed a night to sleep on it and then woke up to all of these great messages. Decision is made.

I agree the fees of a financial planner are insane. I also agree that he made a lot of money off of me for doing very little. I will add that without him, I wouldn’t be in the advantageous financial situation I’m in. He actually whipped my ass in shape to start saving and put together a solid plan for saving. I was spending frivolously when I met him and he quickly got me thinking about the big picture. And he held me to it. So for that I’ll be forever grateful. But yes, it’s time to move on.

I’ll call Vanguard and initiate a transfer.

The money is in taxable accounts. So just to get the ball rolling, my plan is to transfer everything (or as much as I can) to Vanguard. Next, I’ll figure out the best plan to deal with the tax portion of this.

Do you think it’s best I pay a Vanguard advisor to help with this? And then once it’s tight I can release them? Or, should I just have my tax guy help me?

Some people asked the funds I was in. Here is a list:
AMZN
APPL
ACP
CVX
FCAVX
HDGIX
EFA
EEM
SEEGX
NEZYX
SDY
TINGX
TIBIX

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Sandtrap
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by Sandtrap » Tue May 07, 2019 8:16 am

zachslow wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:12 am
All,

Thank you so much.

I had already made up my mind. Just needed a night to sleep on it and then woke up to all of these great messages. Decision is made.

I agree the fees of a financial planner are insane. I also agree that he made a lot of money off of me for doing very little. I will add that without him, I wouldn’t be in the advantageous financial situation I’m in. He actually whipped my ass in shape to start saving and put together a solid plan for saving. I was spending frivolously when I met him and he quickly got me thinking about the big picture. And he held me to it. So for that I’ll be forever grateful. But yes, it’s time to move on.

I’ll call Vanguard and initiate a transfer.

The money is in taxable accounts. So just to get the ball rolling, my plan is to transfer everything (or as much as I can) to Vanguard. Next, I’ll figure out the best plan to deal with the tax portion of this.

Do you think it’s best I pay a Vanguard advisor to help with this? And then once it’s tight I can release them? Or, should I just have my tax guy help me?

Some people asked the funds I was in. Here is a list:
AMZN
APPL
ACP
CVX
FCAVX
HDGIX
EFA
EEM
SEEGX
NEZYX
SDY
TINGX
TIBIX
No. Not a tax guy.
How about posting for a portfolio review here on the forum first? (post fund names)
In this format:
Asking Portfolio Questions
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewt ... =1&t=6212
The cumulative experience and knowledge of portfolio advisors here dwarfs anyone or firm you might find elsewhere.
Get their constructive actionable input for your structure.
Let them help you find your allocation and formulate and IPS.
Then, decide if you really need anything else or can do it on your own.

It's not very complex, but seems so.
Good luck.
Aloha
j :D
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dbr
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by dbr » Tue May 07, 2019 8:18 am

As far as I know Vanguard does not give specific tax analysis and advice.

What your tax guy is supposed to do IS give tax advice. Of course a lot of tax guys are not actually tax guys but rather clerks that fill out tax returns for people that need someone else to type for them, but we'll assume your guy has reasonable expertise, and that would be the starting point.

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Stinky
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by Stinky » Tue May 07, 2019 8:22 am

Before you send anything to your tax guy, post your information here.

You’ll get much quicker analysis and feedback on this Forum than from your guy, and the quality of feedback will be equal or better than your guy. Plus, this Forum is FREE.
It's a GREAT day to be alive - Travis Tritt

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RickBoglehead
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Re: I tried to fire my financial advisor of 12 years today...

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue May 07, 2019 8:31 am

zachslow wrote:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:12 am
All,

Thank you so much.

I had already made up my mind. Just needed a night to sleep on it and then woke up to all of these great messages. Decision is made.

I agree the fees of a financial planner are insane. I also agree that he made a lot of money off of me for doing very little. I will add that without him, I wouldn’t be in the advantageous financial situation I’m in. He actually whipped my ass in shape to start saving and put together a solid plan for saving. I was spending frivolously when I met him and he quickly got me thinking about the big picture. And he held me to it. So for that I’ll be forever grateful. But yes, it’s time to move on.

I’ll call Vanguard and initiate a transfer.

The money is in taxable accounts. So just to get the ball rolling, my plan is to transfer everything (or as much as I can) to Vanguard. Next, I’ll figure out the best plan to deal with the tax portion of this.

Do you think it’s best I pay a Vanguard advisor to help with this? And then once it’s tight I can release them? Or, should I just have my tax guy help me?

Some people asked the funds I was in. Here is a list:
AMZN
APPL
ACP
CVX
FCAVX
HDGIX
EFA
EEM
SEEGX
NEZYX
SDY
TINGX
TIBIX
SInce you're made your decision, it doesn't matter, but the reason he "whipped your a&& into shape" was to make more money off you...

Vanguard will take a look at your investments and tell you what, if anything, won't transfer. Once it's transferred, you can either pay Vanguard PAS 0.3% to move things to a 3 or 4 fund portfolio, or do it yourself. In a taxable fund, any sales will generate taxable gains, or losses.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.

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