Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

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CT-Scott
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Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by CT-Scott »

I know this is the *WRONG* forum to be asking this question (if you know of other forums you can point me, that's cool too), but...

My wife and I are maxing out our 401k's, maxing out backdoor Roth, and maxing out an HSA.

Next course of action will likely be to invest more of our after-tax dollars in VTSMX, or something along those lines (currently just putting excess in a "High-Rate" savings account with Alliant Credit Union).

We also "invest in ourselves" in terms of other entrepreneurial ideas that don't require too much money/time and that we are passionate about (e.g., in the past, I've run a few blogs in the past that I enjoyed and brought in a *little* money, and my wife currently sells Norwex via Facebook parties).

We are both employed and make good (and similar) incomes.

But I think that we all agree that investing in VTSMX is boring. So, I'm also thinking about budgeting a *SMALL* amount of discretionary income each month for "gambling." I could bet on a sports team or buy a bunch of lottery tickets, but that leaves too much to chance for my liking. And I don't have much desire to go to a casino, and to become more skilled at card playing. So I kind of like the idea of researching some small companies (whose stock I can get on the NASDAQ) and "playing" with that. It might even be a fun competition where my wife and I each get $xx to play with each month and can compete against each other.

Does anyone have any other ideas I might be missing? I know there are personal lending sites out there (which doesn't sound "fun" enough for me). If you know of any non-scammy websites/forums that could be good resources for this sort of thing, I'd appreciate it.
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sergeant
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by sergeant »

You could search for AP situations at various gambling sites but by the time they go public the advantage is usually gone.
AA- 20+ Years of Expenses Fixed Income/The remainder in Equities.
mega317
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by mega317 »

There is nothing wrong with doing whatever you like with money that you don't need. It sounds more fun to me to research sports teams than pore over financial reports or whatever; I don't think one is more dependent on chance than another. It also sounds more fun to me to take whatever cash this would be and throw it out the window and then go for a walk or something.

The risk here is that you make some money to start and then scale up and it gets out of hand.
https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6212
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midareff
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by midareff »

You can easily find 80 sector and geographic funds at Fidelity that you can track in M* for momentum, and play with that. I have done that in my play account and have found it can be quite rewarding.
MittensMoney
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by MittensMoney »

Throw a few dollars on Options for upcoming Earnings Reports.
Admiral
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Admiral »

Take a vacation. You'll appreciate the memories more than a win on the pink sheets.

My $.02.
DonIce
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by DonIce »

mega317 wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:42 pm There is nothing wrong with doing whatever you like with money that you don't need. It sounds more fun to me to research sports teams than pore over financial reports or whatever; I don't think one is more dependent on chance than another.
Can't imagine anything more boring in the world than researching sports teams. Financial reports are way up the list in comparison. Everyone's different!
CT-Scott wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:22 pm But I think that we all agree that investing in VTSMX is boring. So, I'm also thinking about budgeting a *SMALL* amount of discretionary income each month for "gambling." I could bet on a sports team or buy a bunch of lottery tickets, but that leaves too much to chance for my liking. And I don't have much desire to go to a casino, and to become more skilled at card playing. So I kind of like the idea of researching some small companies (whose stock I can get on the NASDAQ) and "playing" with that. It might even be a fun competition where my wife and I each get $xx to play with each month and can compete against each other.

Does anyone have any other ideas I might be missing?
Besides picking individual stocks? You could try day trading. Probably futures since they trade around the clock rather than stocks since those trade during market hours (when you're probably at work). Just make sure you do it in a separate account so that you don't accidentally harm the rest of your portfolio.
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Stinky
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Stinky »

Give at least part of it to a local homeless shelter or other charity.

You’ll be improving the world ....
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by AerialWombat »

DonIce wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 5:16 pm Just make sure you do it in a separate account so that you don't accidentally harm the rest of your portfolio.
Last edited by AerialWombat on Sat Apr 27, 2019 4:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Mrxyz
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Mrxyz »

Yup, wrong forum! :happy
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NotTooDeepLearning
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by NotTooDeepLearning »

I've started "trading" volatility with my fun money. I'm an avid R programmer and stumbled upon a strategy outlined here: https://quantstrattrader.wordpress.com/ ... o-is-best/ The research, programming, testing, and trading seems to be turning into a bit of a hobby for me.

Pros:
Purely signals based - no emotions, exactly when to get in and out is already predetermined
<50 trades per year
Absolutely blows away returns in the stock market (I expect around 35% CAGR)

Cons:
Might have to make 50 trades a year which means commissions
Remote chance the investment vehicles blow up like XIV did
No guarantees about future performance even if you do everything right
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Phineas J. Whoopee
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Phineas J. Whoopee »

Speaking for myself only, I can find much more enjoyable ways to expend money than to lose it on penny stocks. Your mileage may vary.
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mikemikemike
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by mikemikemike »

put it all on black. Much better investment than red, imo.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by RickBoglehead »

Burn it.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, PHEV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
EnjoyIt
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by EnjoyIt »

Go to Vegas and play craps. It is a high paced game full of adrenaline. In a short amount of time you can win big or lose everything. It may provide the gambling rush you are looking for.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
staythecourse
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by staythecourse »

Have you read "Hedgiefunds" epic thread? That is what I am doing with a small 2-3% of my portfolio. It is a "bet" but uses the same concepts of passive investing (no market timing/ security selection) that is consistent with passive investing.

To be honest, I've been doing it 1-2 months and am surprised I still don't blink at the volatility from day to day. Maybe they will make a 5x fund one day?

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Thesaints »

EnjoyIt wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:49 pm Go to Vegas and play craps. It is a high paced game full of adrenaline. In a short amount of time you can win big or lose everything. It may provide the gambling rush you are looking for.
Even craps cannot turn pennies into millions. If one is just betting small peanuts, they have to look for the highest possible payouts in order to make a significant amount. I'm talking lottery-grade chances.
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by EnjoyIt »

Thesaints wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:31 pm
EnjoyIt wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:49 pm Go to Vegas and play craps. It is a high paced game full of adrenaline. In a short amount of time you can win big or lose everything. It may provide the gambling rush you are looking for.
Even craps cannot turn pennies into millions. If one is just betting small peanuts, they have to look for the highest possible payouts in order to make a significant amount. I'm talking lottery-grade chances.
Ohhh, I see. Well then, playing the lottery or maybe buying the newest cryptocurrency. I guess I will stick to craps and poker
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: | https://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=79939&start=400#p5275418
Thesaints
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Thesaints »

EnjoyIt wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:59 pm
Thesaints wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 7:31 pm
EnjoyIt wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:49 pm Go to Vegas and play craps. It is a high paced game full of adrenaline. In a short amount of time you can win big or lose everything. It may provide the gambling rush you are looking for.
Even craps cannot turn pennies into millions. If one is just betting small peanuts, they have to look for the highest possible payouts in order to make a significant amount. I'm talking lottery-grade chances.
Ohhh, I see. Well then, playing the lottery or maybe buying the newest cryptocurrency. I guess I will stick to craps and poker
Well, if one has fun playing craps, then by all means. From a strictly financial point of view, it doesn't really make much sense to shoot for a few extra thousands, or tens of thousand; only millions make a real difference.
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JoMoney
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by JoMoney »

I am personally opposed to confusing your saving/investing and your gambling. If you really "know something" when it comes to stocks, and expect to be a professional investor who trades with an advantage, you're what Benjamin Graham categorized as an "Enterprising Investor". If you're a "know nothing" investor (or know the same as everybody else), you're not playing with an advantage - at best, in an "efficient market" you would just be flipping a fair coin (minus expenses), and quite possibly (if the market isn't so efficient) you might be a sucker being taken advantage of by people who have better information, better trading positions/market access, or maybe just trying to sell you a story.
Benjamin Graham in The Intelligent Investor wrote:.. Investment policy, as it has been developed here, depends in the first place on a choice by the investor of either the defensive (passive) or aggressive (enterprising) role. The aggressive investor must have a considerable knowledge of security values—enough, in fact, to warrant viewing his security operations as equivalent to a business enterprise. There is no room in this philosophy for a middle ground, or a series of gradations, between the passive and aggressive status. Many, perhaps most, investors seek to place themselves in such an intermediate category; in our opinion that is a compromise that is more likely to produce disappointment than achievement.
As an investor you cannot soundly become “half a businessman,” expecting thereby to achieve half the normal rate of business profits on your funds.
It follows from this reasoning that the majority of security owners should elect the defensive classification. They do not have the time, or the determination, or the mental equipment to embark upon investing as a quasi-business. They should therefore be satisfied with the excellent return now obtainable from a defensive portfolio (and with even less), and they should stoutly resist the recurrent temptation to increase this return by deviating into other paths...
Give yourself some vacation money, go to Vegas, have some "fun" with your "fun money", don't confuse gambling with what kind of investor you are.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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Spinola
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Spinola »

Gambling of any sort is a waste of money and time, two things anathema to the boglehead way of thinking. If investing money wisely and effectively is not an option for this "fun money", at least do something productive with it, home renovation, vacation, new car, learn/ take a course in something you like, donate it to a worthy charity, homeless shelter, etc.

The urge/ itch to gamble is a dangerous, slippery slope to financial chaos. I have seen people ruin their lives because of it. Resist the urge.
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Prahasaurus »

CT-Scott wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:22 pm So I kind of like the idea of researching some small companies (whose stock I can get on the NASDAQ) and "playing" with that. It might even be a fun competition where my wife and I each get $xx to play with each month and can compete against each other.
I would avoid penny stocks and the like. But I see nothing wrong with allocating a small portion of your equities portfolio to picking individual stocks, and not just those listed on NASDAQ. Let's say 5% or so of your equity portfolio. But I would suggest keeping your investment in a very small number of stocks, ideally 2-3. You are already diversified when 95% of your equity portfolio is in a solid index fund. You may even want to start smaller, see how it goes over 1-2 years, and adjust accordingly.

It has some advantages:

1 - If you work in a specific industry, or have good knowledge of a particular industry (e.g. technology, healthcare, etc.), then you may have insights that are not available to a majority of investors. If you are just getting your "insights" from websites or CNBC, then you have no insights...

2 - By researching and following just a few stocks in detail, you can learn a lot about those companies and their industry. So this can help you in your day job. I have learned a ton about partners and competitors in my industry by investing in them, and this has helped me with my day job immensely.

3 - Provided you select small but respectable companies, you can see better than average upside and typically avoid total loss of your investment. I think companies with revenues of 250 million - 5 billion are the sweet spot. They can grow in a way that larger companies cannot easily grow. It's very hard for Apple to double its revenues, but MongoDB, or Twilio? Completely different animals.

4 - It's fun! You and your wife can invest together, research together, discuss the companies, etc. As you wrote, make it a contest. Great idea!

However, you should be prepared to purchase solid companies and hold on long term, even if there are fairly large drops, e.g. 20-30%, provided nothing has fundamentally changed with the company. If you are going to panic every time the stock drops 15%, you should not do this. If you want to be a day trader, or a monthly trader, then I would say you are wasting your time, as there is little upside and you have no advantage. And you won't really learn much about the companies in which you invest, since there is little time.

I love this site, the approach here is, in my opinion, the correct methodology for investors, full stop. Most of my investments are in VTWAX and muni bonds, you can't get much more boring than that! But at times this board can read like religion, and the idea of picking individual stocks dangerous blasphemy. Even Saint Bogle, when you actually listen to him speak, was not such a purist on many issues as you occasionally read here (fun fact: did you know Bogle went from 70-30 stocks to bonds to 20-80, just before the crash in 2000? He saw the valuations and said it was time to adjust. Not what you are suggesting, but still, it shows he wasn't such a purist, after all).

So provided you understand the risks, I say go for it and enjoy yourself!
Last edited by Prahasaurus on Sun Apr 28, 2019 3:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Wiggums »

Mrxyz wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 6:07 pm Yup, wrong forum! :happy
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Thanks
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Prahasaurus
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Prahasaurus »

Spinola wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:48 am Gambling of any sort is a waste of money and time, two things anathema to the boglehead way of thinking....

The urge/ itch to gamble is a dangerous, slippery slope to financial chaos. I have seen people ruin their lives because of it. Resist the urge.
sarcasm

Be careful OP! It starts out as 100 shares of Zoom post IPO, then moves on to short selling Lyft. Before you know it, you're pimping your wife for spare change on the streets of Vegas. :shock:

/sarcasm
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Arinbjorn
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Arinbjorn »

I put a tiny percentage of total investing dollars into things like ESG and green energy index funds. I don't really care how they perform, it's just my way of putting (some) money where my mouth is, haha.

I use M1 for this because it uses fractional shares, new contributions go to balance out the highs and lows instead of rebalancing with a taxable event, DRIP, and it's just a fun platform to use for free. Automatic contributions, set it and forget it if you want. I get more fun out of that than stuff like sports or playing cards.

I also like keeping my "serious" investing separated - Vanguard for that, M1 for my fun account. Maybe it'll fund a vacation some day or something.
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DanMahowny
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by DanMahowny »

I would recommend that you short Tesla stock.

It's "fun" because you will make money since bankruptcy is unavoidable (otherwise will be acquired at substantially lower price).

I did this after Elon's, "funding secured" lie, at a price of $380.
Funding secured
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CyclingDuo
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by CyclingDuo »

CT-Scott wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:22 pm I know this is the *WRONG* forum to be asking this question (if you know of other forums you can point me, that's cool too), but...
Bored? Fun money? Gambling? Penny stocks? :oops:

Throw a little bit of money by buying shares of a Hail Mary basket of the new IPO's that includes all the unicorns: Zoom, Levi's, Lyft, Uber, Airbnb, Slack, Palantir, Robinhood, Pinterest, Postmates, WeWork, etc... .

One or two of them might turn out as investments over the next 20 years. If not - well, you will be quite entertained with the experiment.

You could also take up golf and on the 1st tee, wager the other three in your foursome $100 a hole to see if you get any takers. Make sure you have enough cash in your pocket to pay off your losses...
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel
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happymob
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by happymob »

Absent true insider information, I would be more comfortable betting my fun money at the racetrack on ponies than on penny stocks. And I'd have more fun too.
Freefun
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Freefun »

staythecourse wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:53 pm Have you read "Hedgiefunds" epic thread? That is what I am doing with a small 2-3% of my portfolio. It is a "bet" but uses the same concepts of passive investing (no market timing/ security selection) that is consistent with passive investing.

To be honest, I've been doing it 1-2 months and am surprised I still don't blink at the volatility from day to day. Maybe they will make a 5x fund one day?

Good luck.
+1

I’m playing too. Love the volatility! After watching UPRO I look at a normal index and think ‘how boring’. If course I may have other thoughts if S&P500 goes down 33%, but it is play money.
Remember when you wanted what you currently have?
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CT-Scott
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by CT-Scott »

Thanks everyone (well, some of you) for the replies thus far. As expected, I'm seeing mostly the sort of replies I anticipated. I'm tempted to respond directly to some of those comments, but I think it will just take the thread further off-course. I guess I'll just say that if you're tempted to reply to tell me that I should spend my money on charity, vacations, some other hobby, etc., please don't bother replying at all, because we already spend some of our money on all of those things.

Everyone is different, but I have always loved to research things. My wife thinks too much (it can sometimes take too long for me to act on something). Investing my retirement savings "the bogleheads way" seems smart to me, and that's what I'm already doing. But I like the idea of learning more about some startup companies, and learning more about the stock market and how trading works, options, short sales, etc.

There were a few ideas thrown out that are largely Greek to me, so I may follow up later (possibly via PM) to get more details. As additional background, I'm a software developer who works for someone else, but I work from home. This gives me some flexibility throughout the day to find a couple of minutes here or there to engage in some transactions via my non-company-owned laptop, and/or in the evening, when my wife is engaging in one of her hobbies. Point being, I like hobbies I can do from home, as opposed to "taking a vacation" or traveling to a casino. And, in this case, I'm interested in a new hobby that has the *potential* to make money, not just consume money.

As a software developer, I'm also interested in finding some untapped niche for an app that I could develop, so in the course of learning more about this hobby, I might find an opportunity for developing an app that could be marketable.
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CT-Scott
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by CT-Scott »

Freefun wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:14 am
staythecourse wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:53 pm Have you read "Hedgiefunds" epic thread?
+1

I’m playing too.
Sorry, can you point me to that?
johnra
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by johnra »

I took one of our pre-tax accounts that wasn't very large compared to our other accounts and i started investing in individual stocks that I liked (about 6-8 of them) and i bought and mostly hold, some occasional selling and buying. This account has more than quadrupled in the last 6 years to the point where it is now significant. Here are the yields:

2013: 33.4%
2914: 25.8%
2015: 26.9%
2016: <6.5%>
2017: 49.3%
2018: <1.7%>
2019 (ytd): 32.1

i am having fun, like the game, it keeps my risk crave satisfied, and so far will provide a nice extra. I don't plan to quit this any time soon, but at some point I may convert to a conventional 60-40 or so.
peppers
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by peppers »

happymob wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:44 am Absent true insider information, I would be more comfortable betting my fun money at the racetrack on ponies than on penny stocks. And I'd have more fun too.
Exactly.

The Kentucky Derby is next Saturday May 4th.
"..the cavalry ain't comin' kid, you're on your own..."
Tiger 385
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Tiger 385 »

Freefun wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:14 am
staythecourse wrote: Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:53 pm Have you read "Hedgiefunds" epic thread? That is what I am doing with a small 2-3% of my portfolio. It is a "bet" but uses the same concepts of passive investing (no market timing/ security selection) that is consistent with passive investing.

To be honest, I've been doing it 1-2 months and am surprised I still don't blink at the volatility from day to day. Maybe they will make a 5x fund one day?

Good luck.
+1

I’m playing too. Love the volatility! After watching UPRO I look at a normal index and think ‘how boring’. If course I may have other thoughts if S&P500 goes down 33%, but it is play money.
Would someone be so kind as to share a link to the referenced thread by "Hedgiefunds"? I'm having a difficult time searching for it. Thanks in advance.
TdF fan
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by TdF fan »

Tiger 385 wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:58 pm <snip>
Would someone be so kind as to share a link to the referenced thread by "Hedgiefunds"? I'm having a difficult time searching for it. Thanks in advance.
Here you go:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=272007
Tiger 385
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Tiger 385 »

TdF fan wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 9:21 pm
Tiger 385 wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 8:58 pm <snip>
Would someone be so kind as to share a link to the referenced thread by "Hedgiefunds"? I'm having a difficult time searching for it. Thanks in advance.
Here you go:
viewtopic.php?f=10&t=272007
Thanks.
MotoTrojan
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by MotoTrojan »

My only input: use a % of contributions, not portfolio. 1% of portfolio can still wipe you out eventually.
msk
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by msk »

We all go through a phase when we think "I" can beat the market. After all, many have succeeded. Get some books written by investing gurus (e.g. Peter Lynch) to inspire you. Read a lot about Options. Then set aside, e.g $20k, as play money in a separate brokerage account with Options and Margin activated. Then play! I expect that in your first six months you'll have beginner's luck and get sucked in more. Do not add $ to that account! Continue playing. Nice thing about Options is that you get results very quickly and you can also limit your downside. Have fun. You may even make money on that account for years. When I retired I stopped playing options but I will restart if the market falls >30%. Market falls are always excessive and sooner or later the market participants realize that the world has not suddenly ended. Patience is a great virtue. Ask Warren BUffett.

PS on Hedgefunds. The people who make money are the ones who run these funds. It's much more fun to run your own hedgefund using options. You can hedge by using options... Penny stocks? Are you serious?
DiploInvestor
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Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by DiploInvestor »

Vegas baby! Study and learn poker, in particular Hold’em low limit and tournament style. You can play and get that gambling rush for hours while drinking for free, going to shows and good restaurants, and having an overall good time with your spouse. Blackjack is fun too.
"History doesn’t repeat itself, but it often rhymes." -- Mark Twain // "If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need." — Cicero
bradinsky
Posts: 222
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2018 6:32 am

Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by bradinsky »

Three card poker. Much faster game than Blackjack & potential rewards much greater. Also, easier to lose $ faster:-)
Valuethinker
Posts: 41129
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Valuethinker »

CT-Scott wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2019 4:22 pm I know this is the *WRONG* forum to be asking this question (if you know of other forums you can point me, that's cool too), but...

My wife and I are maxing out our 401k's, maxing out backdoor Roth, and maxing out an HSA.

Next course of action will likely be to invest more of our after-tax dollars in VTSMX, or something along those lines (currently just putting excess in a "High-Rate" savings account with Alliant Credit Union).

We also "invest in ourselves" in terms of other entrepreneurial ideas that don't require too much money/time and that we are passionate about (e.g., in the past, I've run a few blogs in the past that I enjoyed and brought in a *little* money, and my wife currently sells Norwex via Facebook parties).

We are both employed and make good (and similar) incomes.

But I think that we all agree that investing in VTSMX is boring. So, I'm also thinking about budgeting a *SMALL* amount of discretionary income each month for "gambling." I could bet on a sports team or buy a bunch of lottery tickets, but that leaves too much to chance for my liking. And I don't have much desire to go to a casino, and to become more skilled at card playing. So I kind of like the idea of researching some small companies (whose stock I can get on the NASDAQ) and "playing" with that. It might even be a fun competition where my wife and I each get $xx to play with each month and can compete against each other.

Does anyone have any other ideas I might be missing? I know there are personal lending sites out there (which doesn't sound "fun" enough for me). If you know of any non-scammy websites/forums that could be good resources for this sort of thing, I'd appreciate it.
See the documentary The China Hustle for just how badly rigged the Penny Stocks game is against the external investor. The point about auditors in particular. Also "Boiler Room" a drama based on real SEC cases & tapes.

I would not play in that game because it's an insider's game, where the external shareholder (you) is the mug.
motorcyclesarecool
Posts: 933
Joined: Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:39 am

Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by motorcyclesarecool »

DanMahowny wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:49 am I would recommend that you short Tesla stock.

It's "fun" because you will make money since bankruptcy is unavoidable (otherwise will be acquired at substantially lower price).

I did this after Elon's, "funding secured" lie, at a price of $380.
In this stream, look for the most insanely overvalued thing you can find and take up a short position using put options. I’ve toyed with the idea of buying in-the-money puts for the stocks that Jim Cramer pumps. I’ve had some possibly flukey success with far-out-of-the-money TSLA puts, but it was emotionally exhausting. The puts I bought in my kids’ Coverdell ESAs made a tidy double digit profit. The writing is on the wall, yet the market remains irrational. If they go bankrupt, my HSA could nearly double, but I’d probably sell once I hit double digit profits. A small purchase of puts can payoff big time if you can pick a loser and you can roughly time their demise.
Understand that choosing an HDHP is very much a "red pill" approach. Most would rather pay higher premiums for a $20 copay per visit. They will think you weird for choosing an HSA.
Valuethinker
Posts: 41129
Joined: Fri May 11, 2007 11:07 am

Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by Valuethinker »

DanMahowny wrote: Sun Apr 28, 2019 6:49 am I would recommend that you short Tesla stock.

It's "fun" because you will make money since bankruptcy is unavoidable (otherwise will be acquired at substantially lower price).

I did this after Elon's, "funding secured" lie, at a price of $380.
Naked shorting has theoretically unlimited downside.

Tesla is (was?) the most shorted stock on Wall Street. Thus when the stock moves up there is a short squeeze, and the bears get gored.

Like writing naked Calls (i.e. writing a Call option where one does not also own the underlying stock) this is something individual investors just should not do.
danielbird193
Posts: 36
Joined: Thu Mar 21, 2019 2:15 pm

Re: Gambling with "fun money" (Penny stocks, other ideas?)

Post by danielbird193 »

I don't think penny stocks are the way to go, but I liked the suggestion of putting a small bet on some of the recent tech IPOs.

All that said, a weekend in Vegas would be much more fun - and you'd probably have more chance of winning something :)
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