Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

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jhendrix
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Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by jhendrix » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am

I wanted to ask for the forums opinions on this matter: I now have accounts at Fidelity and Vanguard. I have approx. $350,000 in various accounts. $200,00 in a professionally managed account. I also have $185,000 in Vanguard accounts VTIAX, VTSAX and VWITX. I have found that It is much easier for me to navigate and research things on the Fidelity format. After looking at comparable accounts that match the 3 at Vanguard I am thinking of closing the Vanguard account and moving everything to the Fidelity account. I have done research and read the info here about doing that with similar funds but I wanted to get opinions from some who have much deeper knowledge and experience with this situation. Are there any pluses or minuses that I am not seeing looking forward? I first opened the Vanguard because when I first found this site and read the bogleheads book. I assumed that Vanguard brokerage was the brokerage of choice for like minded people but since then I actually find Fidelity is easier and I use their data and format much more.
Thanks,

vu8
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by vu8 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:15 am

I say you should keep your money with Vanguard.
1 Fidelity has a stronger incentive to get you into buying high cost funds, it's not known for being low cost (has been criticizing Vanguard for coming up with low cost index funds in the 80s)
2 Vanguard funds are quite decently managed, Fidelity's funds are probably very similar but you'll never know whether they will keep lowering the expense ratio of the funds you own. Ishares is notorious for creating a new ETF with lower expense ratios and the holders of the high fee ETFs get screwed.
3 Vanguard has a excellent sweep account
4 Vanguard has this implicit "Bogle" lineage that I feel proud to belong to, even though the new commodity fund and actively managed junk is grossing me out
5 Fido is a good firm to be with as long as you make sure that you're not buying their high cost junk

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Kevin M
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Kevin M » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:21 am

For the two stock funds, Fidelity is fine, but do they have a competitive alternative for the tax-exempt bond fund? Vanguard has the advantage in terms of a broad range of low-cost bond funds, while Fidelity tends to have much higher expense ratios for comparable bond funds and money market funds, so the net yields tend to be lower.

But if you find Fidelity easier to navigate, perhaps that's not a deal breaker. I use both, and find both easy enough to navigate.

Kevin
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Chip
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Chip » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:25 am

I have everything at Fidelity. I have used Vanguard in the past. I buy Vanguard ETFs at Fidelity. The $5 commission is insignificant to me and I do very little buying or selling anyway.

If you want to hold regular equity mutual funds in a taxable account (as opposed to ETFs), Vanguard funds are more tax efficient than Fidelity's. If you want to buy muni bond funds in taxable (especially state-specific funds), Vanguard's offerings are far superior to Fidelity's. I suppose some of the national muni ETFs are (e.g. MUB) are okay at Fidelity. I currently don't buy munis so it doesn't affect me. I suspect that if I want muni funds in the future I will open another Vanguard account.

I agree that Fidelity may try to sell you higher cost funds. Just say no.

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by midareff » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:25 am

I have accounts at both, FWIW. All of my core taxable and IRA investment portfolios are at Vanguard, that's about 93% of total. The remaining 7% is in a Roth at Fidelity which I use as my play account, and track and play momentum from 75 sector and geographic funds they have available. Yes, they are all high cost and it is for play... OTOH, whether it be dumb luck or intuitive analysis I have outperformed by Vanguard portfolio with it for quite a few years now. Fortunately (or unfortunately), I have reached the point at 71.5 years old I no longer have much desire to assume higher risk to make more money I will probably not spend and 50% of that Roth is in an index fund which does not happen to be available in that form at Vanguard.

Fidelity has great research and planning tools, which at my point of life I have little to no use for. I have never had an issue navigating either of them. YMMV.

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by gjlynch17 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:30 am

Kevin M wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:21 am
For the two stock funds, Fidelity is fine, but do they have a competitive alternative for the tax-exempt bond fund? Vanguard has the advantage in terms of a broad range of low-cost bond funds, while Fidelity tends to have much higher expense ratios for comparable bond funds and money market funds, so the net yields tend to be lower.

But if you find Fidelity easier to navigate, perhaps that's not a deal breaker. I use both, and find both easy enough to navigate.

Kevin
I echo what Kevin said. When Vanguard announced they were closing their Advantage Account I looked closely at transferring everything to Fidelity for convenience. I found that for me, Fidelity is equal to Vanguard in its options of ETFs and equity mutual funds (Vanguard has more free ETFs available but the iShares ETFs are sufficient for my needs). Where Vanguard has a clear advantage is in money market and bond mutual funds because of its lower expenses (generally 20-30 bp) which makes a difference over time. Fidelity closes this gap in part by lower credit corporate and muni bonds but one is assuming greater credit risk for an additional 10-15bp but I prefer to adjust my credit risk on my own and keep the additional bp.

Overall, a reasonable investor may conclude that this additional cost is worth the convenience of having everything at one brokerage but I prefer to keep the bulk of my assets at Vanguard and use Fidelity for areas Vanguard does not offer (Cash Management and HSA).

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Beehave » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:35 am

vu8 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:15 am
I say you should keep your money with Vanguard.
1 Fidelity has a stronger incentive to get you into buying high cost funds, it's not known for being low cost (has been criticizing Vanguard for coming up with low cost index funds in the 80s)
2 Vanguard funds are quite decently managed, Fidelity's funds are probably very similar but you'll never know whether they will keep lowering the expense ratio of the funds you own. Ishares is notorious for creating a new ETF with lower expense ratios and the holders of the high fee ETFs get screwed.
3 Vanguard has a excellent sweep account
4 Vanguard has this implicit "Bogle" lineage that I feel proud to belong to, even though the new commodity fund and actively managed junk is grossing me out
5 Fido is a good firm to be with as long as you make sure that you're not buying their high cost junk
+1
In my experience Vanguard is simply more trustworthy.

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:36 am

Duplicate
Last edited by MathIsMyWayr on Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:40 am, edited 1 time in total.

bei22000
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by bei22000 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:38 am

I have accounts in both places. Not significant difference-each has its own pros & cons. If I were you, I would just keep using both.

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:39 am

My personal accounts are at Vanguard and work-related accounts (401k, ESPP, RSU, stock options) at Fidelity. I need only accounts balance, occasional purchases/sales of a few funds, and tax forms. Fidelity seems to offer more information than Vanguard, but I do not read them. Fidelity has local offices where I live, a big plus. Both are fine with me, but I have a warm attachment to Vanguard/Bogle.

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by quantAndHold » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:41 am

Is this a taxable account? If it is, what will the tax consequences be?

I have both. I like both, for different reasons.

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by HomeStretch » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:45 am

I like Vanguard for taxable accounts due to tax efficiency and the fact they don’t push higher ER active funds on me. I can see using Vanguard PAS if I need help as I age.

I like Fidelity for 24/7 customer service, local walk-in office, CMA and solo 401k.

I would move my CMA to Vanguard if they offer it again in the future. I most likely will amend my solo 401k plan to move it to Vanguard as I project switching to roth contributions in the next year or two. At that point I would be more likely to consolidate all at Vanguard.

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by neilpilot » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:47 am

quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:41 am
Is this a taxable account? If it is, what will the tax consequences be?

I have both. I like both, for different reasons.
It's likely, even though you can't buy Admiral flavored MFs at Fidelity, you can still transfer those assets from Vanguard. I was able to do just that with another broker, and auto reinvestment was also an option even though I can't directly purchase Admiral. You just need to ask.

PS - I've since converted most assets to ETFs for easy of transfer. Helpful in the hunt for new account (and retention) bonus $$.

PPS - I've never had Fidelity, TD Ameritrade or Merrill Edge try to sell me anything. Maybe they know I'm a BH?

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Kevin M » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:49 am

gjlynch17 wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:30 am
When Vanguard announced they were closing their Advantage Account I looked closely at transferring everything to Fidelity for convenience.
VG announced the termination of the VAAs shortly after I started using it as my main bill paying account (I have had the VAA for years, but didn't use it much as a checking account for the many years that MM funds were earning 0%). I will start moving my bill paying to my Fidelity CMA in June, but of course will keep my Vanguard accounts.

I would have preferred to continue using VAA due to the higher money market yields, but the Fidelity MM yields are much better than a typical checking account, and I like that Fidelity automatically pulls from non-settlement MM funds to cover cash debits, which Vanguard does not do.

Kevin
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by RickBoglehead » Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:53 am

Seems like a weekly thread topic...

You'll get split answers, probably skewed to more Vanguard. It's personal choice.

I only have at Fidelity which is unique at Fidelity (HSA account and DW's 403b). Everything else we moved to Vanguard.
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student
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by student » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:00 am

If you like Fidelity website, then go ahead and transfer with the caveat that Kevin mentioned regarding bond fund and MM fund. Some like Vanguard purely because of its corporate structure, which is not important to me. Pick a firm that fits your need.

noupdjm
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by noupdjm » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:01 am

I plan to move completely to Fidelity. I currently only have my IRA (REIT) and a couple UTMA accounts for my kids at Vanguard. My 401(k) is at Fidelity, and I've recently opened a CMA (been closely watching the couple of threads regarding the most efficient ways to implement CMAs / sweep accounts / debit cards / etc). I also recently opened a Fidelity rewards CC.

I agree that Fidelity's website is much more user friendly and intuitive, with cooler tools, research, etc. AND there's a local branch about 10 minutes away. :D

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Ferdinand2014 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:02 am

I have no experience with Vanguard. My experience with Fidelity has been very good. I like the Fido website and research options, customer service and one stop shopping ability. They also happened to have a brick and mortar store within a reasonable drive of my home. I have only used it once however. They certainly meet all of my requirements for availability of low cost index mutual funds in every class and category that I need. They have many ETF options as well although I do not utilize them. I currently have my wife’s rollover IRA and CMA. My CMA and SEP as well as a taxable brokerage account and 3 529’s at Fido. I have been with Fido since 2000. I have never felt pressured to purchase the active funds or utilize an advisor. I have never had an unsolicited call or email from them. I am sure Vanguard is great, but for me wether it be familiarity or as noted above, I am happy with Fido.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by quantAndHold » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:04 am

neilpilot wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:47 am
quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:41 am
Is this a taxable account? If it is, what will the tax consequences be?

I have both. I like both, for different reasons.
It's likely, even though you can't buy Admiral flavored MFs at Fidelity, you can still transfer those assets from Vanguard. I was able to do just that with another broker, and auto reinvestment was also an option even though I can't directly purchase Admiral. You just need to ask.

PS - I've since converted most assets to ETFs for easy of transfer. Helpful in the hunt for new account (and retention) bonus $$.
Agreed, but OP is talking about moving to Fidelity funds. If it’s a taxable account, that needs to be rethought.

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by mancich » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:06 am

My 401k/BrokerageLink account is at Fidelity, our taxable accounts are at Vanguard. I agree that Fidelity has a better website for research, etc, but for my personal situation, since I keep things very simple with only a few funds with each, it doesn't matter to me YMMV

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:09 am

You say that your Fidelity account is professionally managed. Although I have most of my money at Fidelity and just closed my Vanguard account, that red flag "professionally managed" tells me that you should move everything over to Vanguard. I translate the above to mean "professionally swindled".
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by aristotelian » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:12 am

jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am
I wanted to ask for the forums opinions on this matter: I now have accounts at Fidelity and Vanguard. I have approx. $350,000 in various accounts. $200,00 in a professionally managed account. I also have $185,000 in Vanguard accounts VTIAX, VTSAX and VWITX. I have found that It is much easier for me to navigate and research things on the Fidelity format. After looking at comparable accounts that match the 3 at Vanguard I am thinking of closing the Vanguard account and moving everything to the Fidelity account. I have done research and read the info here about doing that with similar funds but I wanted to get opinions from some who have much deeper knowledge and experience with this situation. Are there any pluses or minuses that I am not seeing looking forward? I first opened the Vanguard because when I first found this site and read the bogleheads book. I assumed that Vanguard brokerage was the brokerage of choice for like minded people but since then I actually find Fidelity is easier and I use their data and format much more.
Thanks,
Why not simply do research on Fidelity's site and transactions on Vanguard's site? Might be good to have some separation between the two anyway, so you aren't tempted to make impulse transactions based on whatever "research" you happen to come across that day.

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by ruralavalon » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:22 am

jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am
I wanted to ask for the forums opinions on this matter: I now have accounts at Fidelity and Vanguard. I have approx. $350,000 in various accounts. $200,00 in a professionally managed account. I also have $185,000 in Vanguard accounts VTIAX, VTSAX and VWITX. I have found that It is much easier for me to navigate and research things on the Fidelity format. After looking at comparable accounts that match the 3 at Vanguard I am thinking of closing the Vanguard account and moving everything to the Fidelity account. I have done research and read the info here about doing that with similar funds but I wanted to get opinions from some who have much deeper knowledge and experience with this situation. Are there any pluses or minuses that I am not seeing looking forward? I first opened the Vanguard because when I first found this site and read the bogleheads book. I assumed that Vanguard brokerage was the brokerage of choice for like minded people but since then I actually find Fidelity is easier and I use their data and format much more.
Thanks,
Are you dissatisfied with Vanguard or their website?

What reaserach do you need?

I don't believe that Fidelity has an equivalent to Vanguard Intermediate-Term Tax-Exempt Fund Investor Shares (VWITX) which you are currently using. Vanguard has a number of tax-exempt bond funds. Vanguard stock index funds are a bit more tax-efficient than equivalent Fidelity stock index funds.

In selection of a low cost fund firm the one issue you mention ("easier for me to navigate and research things") is really a matter of personal preference.
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Tamarind
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Tamarind » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:29 am

For best ROI, move your professionally managed account first.

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jhendrix
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by jhendrix » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:33 am

quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:04 am
neilpilot wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:47 am
quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:41 am
Is this a taxable account? If it is, what will the tax consequences be?

I have both. I like both, for different reasons.
It's likely, even though you can't buy Admiral flavored MFs at Fidelity, you can still transfer those assets from Vanguard. I was able to do just that with another broker, and auto reinvestment was also an option even though I can't directly purchase Admiral. You just need to ask.

PS - I've since converted most assets to ETFs for easy of transfer. Helpful in the hunt for new account (and retention) bonus $$.
Agreed, but OP is talking about moving to Fidelity funds. If it’s a taxable account, that needs to be rethought.
yes it is taxable

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jhendrix
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by jhendrix » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:34 am

aristotelian wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:12 am
jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am
I wanted to ask for the forums opinions on this matter: I now have accounts at Fidelity and Vanguard. I have approx. $350,000 in various accounts. $200,00 in a professionally managed account. I also have $185,000 in Vanguard accounts VTIAX, VTSAX and VWITX. I have found that It is much easier for me to navigate and research things on the Fidelity format. After looking at comparable accounts that match the 3 at Vanguard I am thinking of closing the Vanguard account and moving everything to the Fidelity account. I have done research and read the info here about doing that with similar funds but I wanted to get opinions from some who have much deeper knowledge and experience with this situation. Are there any pluses or minuses that I am not seeing looking forward? I first opened the Vanguard because when I first found this site and read the bogleheads book. I assumed that Vanguard brokerage was the brokerage of choice for like minded people but since then I actually find Fidelity is easier and I use their data and format much more.
Thanks,
Why not simply do research on Fidelity's site and transactions on Vanguard's site? Might be good to have some separation between the two anyway, so you aren't tempted to make impulse transactions based on whatever "research" you happen to come across that day.
I did but I also respect the opinion of so many of you who have much greater wisdom and experience

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jhendrix
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by jhendrix » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:37 am

Tamarind wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:29 am
For best ROI, move your professionally managed account first.
The professionally managed account is already at FIDO. Maybe I was not clear on that, thanks

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by WhiteMaxima » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:37 am

I would split 1/2 1/2. I like index approach by Vanguard and low fee, I also like Fidelity active managed fund. Fidelity has local office in my area and they have nice coffee machines. :P

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by peetsperk » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:54 am

For me the decision is simple. From Vanguard's start in 1975, it was founded on a "simple but revolutionary idea-that a mutual fund company should not have outside owners. Founder John C. Bogle structured Vanguard as a client-owned mutual fund company with no outside owners seeking profits. Client-owned means that fund shareholders own the funds, which in turn own Vanguard." In other words, when there are savings, the costs for fund shareholders are reduced. That’s the bottom line.

Fidelity is a for-profit company. That's not a bad thing, but it is an important difference. For Fidelity, marketing strategy can drive decisions regarding fees just as was the case when Fidelity announced their ZERO Total Market Index Fund. However, anyone who has worked at a board or senior management level knows few things are set in stone. Marketing strategies can change for many different reasons. As can the need to grow bottom-line company profitability.

While there are few if any absolutes in this world, I'm confident my best interests are protected at Vanguard because shareholders own the funds, which in turn own Vanguard. That fact is unlikely to change in our lifetime.

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by mhalley » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:57 am

I like having multiple accounts. I know with my brain that it is very unlikely that I could get hacked and have money stolen from one of my accounts, but I sleep better at night knowing that if it did happen I would not lose all of my money, Simplicity is nice, but irrational fears overcome my desire for it.

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by neilpilot » Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:58 am

WhiteMaxima wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:37 am
I would split 1/2 1/2. I like index approach by Vanguard and low fee, I also like Fidelity active managed fund. Fidelity has local office in my area and they have nice coffee machines. :P
Investments are all in those Vanguard index ETFs/MFs owned by their shareholders, so I have the same perceived advantage as if my account was with Vanguard.

However, they are all held in TDAmeritrade accounts. If you consider the signing bonus $$ that I've collected, then the negative fees at TDA are even lower than at Vanguard. :moneybag

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Vulcan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:00 am

jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am
Are there any pluses or minuses that I am not seeing looking forward?
What you are not seeing is Fidelity's equivalent of VTWAX.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by neilpilot » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:03 am

Vulcan wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:00 am
jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am
Are there any pluses or minuses that I am not seeing looking forward?
What you are not seeing is Fidelity's equivalent of VTWAX.
Simply convert to VT before the transfer to Fido. You might even cut the ER by 10%. :D

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by ruralavalon » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:12 am

jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:37 am
Tamarind wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:29 am
For best ROI, move your professionally managed account first.
The professionally managed account is already at FIDO. Maybe I was not clear on that, thanks
Getting rid of the management fee may be more important than your Fidelity vs. Vanguard question.

What type of account is the managed account at Fidelity (IRA, taxable, etc.)? What is the management fee? How large is the account? What investments are in the professionally managed account? Why do you have a professionally managed account?
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Vulcan
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Vulcan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:13 am

neilpilot wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:03 am
Vulcan wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:00 am
jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am
Are there any pluses or minuses that I am not seeing looking forward?
What you are not seeing is Fidelity's equivalent of VTWAX.
Simply convert to VT before the transfer to Fido.
And then pay commission at every sale down the road? For what?
And how would you buy more shares?

I held VT for a while and couldn't wait for VTWAX to show up.
Very similar experience
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by nisiprius » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:42 am

In 2012 I had accounts with both Vanguard and Fidelity, both of them for well over seven years.

I gradually came to the conclusion that the in the delicate balance of advantages and disadvantages between keeping accounts at two institutions, versus consolidating to one for simplicity, there was a featherweight on the side of consolidating. In the delicate balance of Vanguard versus Fidelity, it was darn close to a coin flip, but for me there was a featherweight of preference for Vanguard.

What I'm leading up to is that if you like Fidelity and want to move everything to Fidelity, I don't think you're missing anything important. I don't think there's any compelling reason not to. Go ahead, don't worry about it.

As a practical matter, due to fees, if you presently have Vanguard index funds and/or ETFs, then, yes, to avoid fees, I believe you should swap them for the closest Fidelity funds and iShares ETF counterparts. (In my case, a just-plain vague liking for the familiar old ticker symbols, and fan appreciation of Bogle, was, for me, one of the feathers on the Vanguard side of the scale).
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.

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jhendrix
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by jhendrix » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:45 am

Vulcan wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:00 am
jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am
Are there any pluses or minuses that I am not seeing looking forward?
What you are not seeing is Fidelity's equivalent of VTWAX.
don't understand, VTWAX?

dcdowden
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by dcdowden » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:47 am

We have our retirement accounts (IRA's, Roth IRA's) and Donor Advised Fund at Fidelity and our taxable accounts at Vanguard. We also have a 529 Account for our grandchild with the Illinois Brightstart program. I like the Fidelity website, Full View and retirement planning tools. We also like to visit with our Private Client Fidelity Adviser once a year - it is good to have another set of eyes look things over occasionally and to have someone my wife could go to for help just in case something happened to me. We have mostly invested in Vanguard or Blackrock iShare's ETF's at Fidelity although I am now using Fido's new Zero ER funds for core holdings. I have also built a small CD ladder and a TIPS ladder at Fidelity. The one thing I don't like about Fidelity is that their standard sweep account FDRXX has a higher ER (0.38%) and lower Yield (2.09%) than Vanguard. But I just move my cash holdings at Fido to CD's or to ICSH - iShares Ultra Short Term Bond ER (0.08%) and Yield (2.86%).

In our taxable Vanguard Accounts, we hold Vanguard Mutual Funds and some individual Muni Bonds that we purchased a long time ago when the coupon rates were over 5%. Unfortunately, most of those bonds have already been called, so we use Vanguard Intermediate Term Tax Exempt Fund Admiral Shares VWIUX for the balance of our bond holdings in that account.

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jhendrix
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by jhendrix » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:51 am

ruralavalon wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:22 am
jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am
I wanted to ask for the forums opinions on this matter: I now have accounts at Fidelity and Vanguard. I have approx. $350,000 in various accounts. $200,00 in a professionally managed account. I also have $185,000 in Vanguard accounts VTIAX, VTSAX and VWITX. I have found that It is much easier for me to navigate and research things on the Fidelity format. After looking at comparable accounts that match the 3 at Vanguard I am thinking of closing the Vanguard account and moving everything to the Fidelity account. I have done research and read the info here about doing that with similar funds but I wanted to get opinions from some who have much deeper knowledge and experience with this situation. Are there any pluses or minuses that I am not seeing looking forward? I first opened the Vanguard because when I first found this site and read the bogleheads book. I assumed that Vanguard brokerage was the brokerage of choice for like minded people but since then I actually find Fidelity is easier and I use their data and format much more.
Thanks,
Are you dissatisfied with Vanguard or their website?

What reaserach do you need?

I don't believe that Fidelity has an equivalent to Vanguard Intermediate-Term Tax-Exempt Fund Investor Shares (VWITX) which you are currently using. Vanguard has a number of tax-exempt bond funds. Vanguard stock index funds are a bit more tax-efficient than equivalent Fidelity stock index funds.

In selection of a low cost fund firm the one issue you mention ("easier for me to navigate and research things") is really a matter of personal preference.
very helpful, thanks

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jhendrix
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by jhendrix » Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:53 am

ruralavalon wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:12 am
jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:37 am
Tamarind wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:29 am
For best ROI, move your professionally managed account first.
The professionally managed account is already at FIDO. Maybe I was not clear on that, thanks
Getting rid of the management fee may be more important than your Fidelity vs. Vanguard question.

What type of account is the managed account at Fidelity (IRA, taxable, etc.)? What is the management fee? How large is the account? What investments are in the professionally managed account? Why do you have a professionally managed account?
got it

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Cycle
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Cycle » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:00 pm

If u have a super simple portfolio the bells and whistles don't matter. K.i.s.s. keep it simple stupid

Outside of 401ks, I only hold vtwax (Roth, brokerage, 529).

I do have some employer stock stuff at fidelity, but I move that over to vanguard vtwax as soon as it is eligible
Never look back unless you are planning to go that way

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jhendrix
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by jhendrix » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:01 pm

ruralavalon wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:12 am
jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:37 am
Tamarind wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:29 am
For best ROI, move your professionally managed account first.
The professionally managed account is already at FIDO. Maybe I was not clear on that, thanks
Getting rid of the management fee may be more important than your Fidelity vs. Vanguard question.

What type of account is the managed account at Fidelity (IRA, taxable, etc.)? What is the management fee? How large is the account? What investments are in the professionally managed account? Why do you have a professionally managed account?
Last edited by jhendrix on Wed Apr 24, 2019 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.

sport
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by sport » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:14 pm

Fidelity has many high cost funds that no Boglehead would want to use. So, a Boglehead can invest in the limited selection of low cost funds at Fidelity, and do just fine. However, there is a problem with that. Investors should realize that they do not remain young forever. When you get older a number of problems can arise that you might not think about now.
1. You could lose some of your mental acuity, and become receptive to a good sales pitch for other Fidelity products that you would not consider now.
2. You could become disabled, and someone else will have to manage your finances for you. That person may not be a Boglehead and might fall prey to a good Fidelity salesperson.
3. Eventually, you will die, and your heirs will have to manage these accounts. They also may not be Bogleheads etc. etc.

Investing is a not a short-term activity. It is a life-long (and longer) pursuit. Therefore, where and how to invest should not be decided based on short-term considerations. When you are young, you probably don't think about these problems. However, when you consider them as an older person, their importance becomes more apparent. Think about it.

rgs92
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by rgs92 » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:18 pm

Vanguard has VBIAX (Balanced Index), a great fund at 7 basis points that has no equivalent in Fidelity or anywhere else AFAIK. You can buy it thru Fido, but is has a $75 commission per purchase.

Continuous rebalancing at minimal cost is a great thing in my book. And, it's not a glide path like a target fund. Do you really want a glide path?

quantAndHold
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by quantAndHold » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:49 pm

jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:33 am
quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 10:04 am
neilpilot wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:47 am
quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:41 am
Is this a taxable account? If it is, what will the tax consequences be?

I have both. I like both, for different reasons.
It's likely, even though you can't buy Admiral flavored MFs at Fidelity, you can still transfer those assets from Vanguard. I was able to do just that with another broker, and auto reinvestment was also an option even though I can't directly purchase Admiral. You just need to ask.

PS - I've since converted most assets to ETFs for easy of transfer. Helpful in the hunt for new account (and retention) bonus $$.
Agreed, but OP is talking about moving to Fidelity funds. If it’s a taxable account, that needs to be rethought.
yes it is taxable
If you sell the Vanguard mutual funds to buy the Fidelity mutual funds, you will pay capital gains tax on the transaction. A better bet would be to convert the Vanguard mutual funds to their ETF equivalents, then transfer them to Fidelity in-kind.

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Artsdoctor
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Artsdoctor » Wed Apr 24, 2019 12:57 pm

You will be fine either way. Both have their advantages and disadvantages. I have both although more assets at Vanguard.

I had been in the process of generally moving things to Vanguard when I was notified that their Advantage Account was closing. It proved to be a relatively easy experience moving more liquid assets to Fidelity and I'm now comfortable using FIDO for billpay and autopay services through a dedicated brokerage account.

For reasons that are more complex than I can elaborate here, the closing of the Advantage feature made me appreciate the fact that no single institution can do everything. The fact is that so much can moved around electronically that it's just not bad having a couple of institutions.

I've appreciated the bank-like features at Fidelity so much that I'll be closing a Bank of American account which I've held for more than 20 years since the FIDO account also has an ATM feature.

On the other hand, the bond (and money market) funds at Vanguard are superior. The ER's are higher at FIDO which can become an issue when dealing with fixed income. This will not make much difference with the figures you're describing but if you believe your accounts will grow significantly, you will most likely come out ahead with Vanguard.

The brokerage services at Fidelity are better if you'll be interested in using those feature (buying bonds, CDs, ETFs) although again, the differences are small.

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Vulcan
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Vulcan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:21 pm

jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:45 am
Vulcan wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:00 am
jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am
Are there any pluses or minuses that I am not seeing looking forward?
What you are not seeing is Fidelity's equivalent of VTWAX.
don't understand, VTWAX?
Yes. The only Total World stock index mutual fund there is, and for many people, myself included, the only stock fund they need.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

neilpilot
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by neilpilot » Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:54 pm

Vulcan wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:13 am
neilpilot wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:03 am
Vulcan wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:00 am
jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am
Are there any pluses or minuses that I am not seeing looking forward?
What you are not seeing is Fidelity's equivalent of VTWAX.
Simply convert to VT before the transfer to Fido.
And then pay commission at every sale down the road? For what?
And how would you buy more shares?

I held VT for a while and couldn't wait for VTWAX to show up.
Very similar experience
Depends on what you want to achieve. ETF conversion followed by transfer would delay any taxable event. Post transfer distributions could be autoreinvested sans commission. If the position is sold later, you would incur a $5 commission.

Since I rarely trade except for an occasional AA adjustment, the cost of trading is trivial for me.

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jhfenton
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by jhfenton » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:03 pm

I finally decided today to move our smallest account--my rollover IRA--from Vanguard to Fidelity. At Vanguard, the entire account is invested in VEMAX/Vanguard Emerging Markets Index Admiral at 14 bp. I could convert it to VWO, the ETF share class, at 12 bp, now that that is cheaper, but I decided to move it to Fidelity, where I can exchange it into FPADX/Fidelity Emerging Markets Index at 7.5 bp. (The Fidelity fund also follows an index that considers South Korea an emerging market. That is either neutral or a slight positive.)

I wouldn't move the account to Fidelity to save 4.5 bp if I were creating a new relationship, but my 401(k) and my HSA are already at Fidelity. Four other accounts are staying at Vanguard, so we're simply moving from 5 Vanguard/2 Fidelity to 4 Vanguard/3 Fidelity, neither increasing nor decreasing complexity. (My HSA is already entirely invested in FPADX, so I'm not even adding a new fund to my list.)

Under current circumstances, I would not consider moving everything to Fidelity. I value Vanguard's muni funds (VOHIX/Vanguard Ohio Long-Term Tax Exempt in particular), VSS/Vanguard All-World ex-US Small Cap ETF, Vanguard's active emerging markets bond fund (VEGBX/Vanguard EM Bond Admiral Share), Vanguard's new factor funds (VFMFX/Vanguard US Multifactor Admiral, VFVA/Vanguard US Value Factor), and Vanguard's commission-free ETF platform.

I might consider moving everything to Vanguard for the sake of simplicity, but I obviously can't move my 401(k), and Vanguard doesn't offer HSAs. So I have no choice but to maintain a relationship with both.

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Vulcan
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Re: Close Vanguard and go all in with Fidelity?

Post by Vulcan » Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:03 pm

neilpilot wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 1:54 pm
Vulcan wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:13 am
neilpilot wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:03 am
Vulcan wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 11:00 am
jhendrix wrote:
Wed Apr 24, 2019 9:07 am
Are there any pluses or minuses that I am not seeing looking forward?
What you are not seeing is Fidelity's equivalent of VTWAX.
Simply convert to VT before the transfer to Fido.
And then pay commission at every sale down the road? For what?
And how would you buy more shares?

I held VT for a while and couldn't wait for VTWAX to show up.
Very similar experience
Depends on what you want to achieve. ETF conversion followed by transfer would delay any taxable event. Post transfer distributions could be autoreinvested sans commission. If the position is sold later, you would incur a $5 commission.

Since I rarely trade except for an occasional AA adjustment, the cost of trading is trivial for me.
What I want to achieve is no-hassle, zero-fee ongoing investment and future withdrawals in a low ER Total World Stock index fund.

At present, there simply are no alternatives to Vanguard for this use case.

Those who like unnecessary complexity should also ask their significant others if they are comfortable taking it over one day.
Last edited by Vulcan on Wed Apr 24, 2019 2:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

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