Another Edward Jones defector

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Topic Author
DonS
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:25 pm

Another Edward Jones defector

Post by DonS » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:37 am

Hi bogleheads
First time poster here. First I would like to thank the community for your comments that have encouraged me to get out of the EJ quagmire. I have been retired for 4 years now and was unfortunately divorced when I retired. That cost me a 50% reduction in my retirement funds! So I became especially sensitive to how my portfolio was doing. I had been a client of theirs for approximately 20 years I was scheduled for an annual review and in preparation for that I was looking at the facts and figures and discovered that over 4 years I had paid $22,000 in fees for the advisory solutions. And the return over the past four years was 2.3% in that account. I decided I was going to tell them I wanted out of that strategy. And then for some unknown reason I started researching Edward Jones and I found this forum. I looked up Edward Jones on this site and I kept reading for hours and I just got madder as I discovered all of their misdeeds mentioned here that happened to me. I did not fall asleep until 6 AM the next morning.

After reading the suggestions as to where I could move my investments I took a look at the ones mentioned here and settled on Schwab. I made an appointment that day and started moving all of my accounts out of EJ. I was determined I would not even talk to them at EJ because I knew all I would get is the usual smokescreen and double talk. As of this time all my funds have moved to Schwab with a portion in fixed income and a customized intelligent portfolio which is very low cost and adjusted automatically to keep my investments according to my risk tolerance.

I will just give you some examples of how they mislead me. I was talked into an immediate annuity even though I protested that everything I read said that was not a good investment. But I deferred to the “expert “ They converted almost half of my assets into the advisory solutions and downplayed the cost of it in fees by saying it wasn’t much more than the expense ratios for my other mutual funds. What does that say about the expense ratios of my funds?

He invested in one fund to the amount of $50,000 and after four years later the cost of loss is $13,000. When he was confronted with that he said you shouldn’t complain because it is earning you 4% a year and I did not get a loss unless I sold it. And yes they are very very smooth as they seduce you. He once told me that if I cannot have complete trust in him then we probably should not do business. After that comment I should’ve ran like crazy because my inner alarm bells were going off. But I didn’t and that’s why I am here today.

I just want you folks to know how much I appreciate this forum and the encouragement it gave me to escape the clutches of that monster Edward Jones. And by the way there is currently a class action suit filed against Edward Jones and naturally I have signed on to it. Just the other day I heard from the attorney and he said some EJ clients have received letters inquiring as to whether they will settle for some reimbursement of their fees. So I am thinking they are getting a little worried. I have already told several other people they need to read the information included in this forum for some useful information so they can make informed decisions. I want to thank all of you folks for the time you spend trying to help the little guys like me. God bless.

ICMoney
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Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2016 2:38 pm

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ICMoney » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:08 pm

Welcome, DonS! Thank you for taking the time to share your experience; it is so great to know when people are genuinely helped by the information here. I hope your post helps others in the future as well who are seeking information on their EJ investments. Congratulations on your retirement and best wishes for the future ahead.

Best, ICM

DanEmmy
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by DanEmmy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:25 pm

Every time i read one of these threads i pictures some sleezy sales guy behind a desk at EJ, "Gahhhh, another one lost to those darn bogleheads!"

:sharebeer

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dogagility
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by dogagility » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:07 pm

Welcome! Sorry to hear your tail of woe. :(
My hometown of about 8000 people has 3, yes 3!, independent EJ offices in town. I cringe every time I think of the farmers and first-generation investors losing so much money...
Taking "risk" since 1995.

Dottie57
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by Dottie57 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:20 pm

dogagility wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:07 pm
Welcome! Sorry to hear your tail of woe. :(
My hometown of about 8000 people has 3, yes 3!, independent EJ offices in town. I cringe every time I think of the farmers and first-generation investors losing so much money...
It is indeed terrible. I wish schools would teach about investing principles but we would need teachers who know the basics.

chw
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Joined: Thu May 24, 2012 4:22 pm

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by chw » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:30 pm

Congrats on your move, and don't look back.

By the way, I would ask Schwab if they will offer you a deposit bonus based on the size of the account you brought to them.

Topic Author
DonS
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by DonS » Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:51 pm

I feel the folks at Schwab are treating me well. They are covering the $95 per account EJ termination fee across four accounts as well as 200 free trades for the next two years. And a referral of $100 since my partner has a small account. I feel like a great weight has been lifted off of me!

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Wiggums
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by Wiggums » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:03 pm

Welcome to the forum. Glad you found us.

We definitively don’t like high fees here. They are a big drag on your investments returns.

Good luck to you.

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by oldcomputerguy » Thu Feb 28, 2019 7:55 pm

DonS wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:37 am
He invested in one fund to the amount of $50,000 and after four years later the cost of loss is $13,000. When he was confronted with that he said you shouldn’t complain because it is earning you 4% a year and I did not get a loss unless I sold it.
Waitaminnit... your $50,000 investment lost $13,000 over a four-year period, but the EJ guy claimed it was earning 4% a year?
:?
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

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dwickenh
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by dwickenh » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:41 pm

Thanks for the thoughtful post DonS!!

We are all glad you have decided to take control of your future expenses.

Best wishes for your retirement,

Dan
The market is the most efficient mechanism anywhere in the world for transferring wealth from impatient people to patient people.” | — Warren Buffett

IPS&IPA
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Joined: Sat Sep 01, 2018 5:36 pm

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by IPS&IPA » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:59 pm

All these posts about EJ got me thinking about my close call with them.
Back in mid 2006 I was with Fidelity and wanted to see what the guy down the street had to offer.
It was an EJ office, real nice folks.
Had I gone with them he would have put the majority of my investments in GE at somewhere around $40 a share.
I didn't want to invest in single stocks so I said thanks but no thanks.
Looking at GE today I think I made the right call.
Elwood: It's 106 miles to Chicago, we got a full tank of gas, half a pack of cigarettes, it's dark... and we're wearing sunglasses. Jake: Hit it.

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Stinky
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by Stinky » Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:47 pm

Welcome, DonS. Glad that you found this forum, and so happy that you’ve followed the advice of many by leaving EDJ.

Please keep checking the forum. There is a lot of interesting information posted here.
It's a GREAT day to be alive - Travis Tritt

yogesh
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by yogesh » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:03 am

I just saw EJ advertisement in my son's daycare. A piggy bank with EJ logo on it and inviting for college fund investments. Someone is going to sucked into it not just paying for their own kids college but also paying for advisor's retirement. I want to put a boglehead logo or a copy of book next to it.
Emergency: FDIC | Taxable: VTMFX | Retirement: TR2040

Topic Author
DonS
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by DonS » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:39 am

I might add that I first encountered Edward Jones because my company invited him to give an investment seminar at our place of work. I am sure there was more than me who eventually signed up with them. At our company at retirement you were able to take a lump sum and the buzzards at Edward Jones were hovering over these pre-retirees. Now that I think about it I realize our company did us wrong by putting us in a position where we could be preyed upon. Again I wish to thank the folks on this forum for not only their information but their encouragement. There is a lot of mindless information on the Internet but lots of helpful things on this site and I plan to keep on reading.

lostdog
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by lostdog » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:49 am

DonS wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:51 pm
I feel the folks at Schwab are treating me well. They are covering the $95 per account EJ termination fee across four accounts as well as 200 free trades for the next two years. And a referral of $100 since my partner has a small account. I feel like a great weight has been lifted off of me!
Congratulations! Well done on your move to Schwab.

Stick to this forum from now on. :sharebeer

yogesh
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by yogesh » Fri Mar 01, 2019 9:55 am

As of this time all my funds have moved to Schwab with a portion in fixed income and a customized intelligent portfolio which is very low cost and adjusted automatically to keep my investments according to my risk tolerance.



Congratulations! That’s neat financial plan of cash + robo.
Emergency: FDIC | Taxable: VTMFX | Retirement: TR2040

investorag83
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by investorag83 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:04 am

I will just give you some examples of how they mislead me. I was talked into an immediate annuity even though I protested that everything I read said that was not a good investment. But I deferred to the “expert “ They converted almost half of my assets into the advisory solutions and downplayed the cost of it in fees by saying it wasn’t much more than the expense ratios for my other mutual funds. What does that say about the expense ratios of my funds?
Congrats for taking more control...sounds like you and the advisor weren't on the same page. I'll only point out that I think you mean 'deferred' annuity. Hope you're happier with Schwab!

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ruralavalon
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ruralavalon » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:33 am

Welcome to the forum :) .


DonS wrote:Hi bogleheads
First time poster here. First I would like to thank the community for your comments that have encouraged me to get out of the EJ quagmire. . . . . As of this time all my funds have moved to Schwab . . . .
DonS wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:51 pm
I feel the folks at Schwab are treating me well. They are covering the $95 per account EJ termination fee across four accounts as well as 200 free trades for the next two years. And a referral of $100 since my partner has a small account. I feel like a great weight has been lifted off of me!
Congratulations on escaping the clutches of Edward Jones.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

ZLMARK
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:17 am

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ZLMARK » Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:18 pm

Don, my heart sinks for you getting stabbed by EJ. This story is all too familiar. This could be EJ or a multitude of any number of other
financial wizards. As Warren Buffett calls this bunch "Overpaid Stuffed Suits". There is one item I didn't hear as you switched over
to EJ, and that is the sales charge. Sales charge is more than likely 5% to switch over to EJ. Tried unsuccessfully to keep a friend
from going to EJ. For starters they took $15k sales charge for the privilege of working with EJ on his $300k. Then take into account
their AUM (Assets Under Management) charge of maybe 1%/ year. Then take a look at their actively managed funds that charge
waaaay to much. I had a financial planner way back. So when I decided to go on my own I had to unravel his portfolio.
As little as knew back then I came up with "This is horrible!!". Schwab is a good route to go assuming you have a respectable
portfolio. Care to share what you came up with? Percentages only for the whole pie of 100%. FYI, if you ever felt you needed
help with your financial planning Vanguard charges .3%. I don't feel like I need the service though. I might suggest you read
Tony Robbins "Money-Master the Game". Don't agree with all he has to say but a lot of great info including Annuities.
Have also read a few books on Bogleheads. The word is spreading on the 'financial planners' and what they offer and hence
the reason people are heading to index funds and dropping their planners. .....here is a good one that addresses your
very discussion PBS Frontline; THE RETIREMENT GAMBLE. It will give you a broad overview. Doesn't go into the
nuts and bolts of funds but suffice it to say Don, you and I and whole bunch of others have gotten robbed in the past.
Look forward to hearing from you.

The Retirement Gamble https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=brOZ-bJ-QnI&t=4s

Topic Author
DonS
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by DonS » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:40 pm

Zlmark. Those were some good suggestions as to where to get more information and I will definitely take a look at those. As to your questions I am relying on memory but I believe I was paying 2 1/2% when my money was invested with Edward Jones in to American funds. That was the breakpoint for 500 K. Now you forced me to calculate that amount and it sickens me to the tune of 12 K at the time. But I will say that overall the American funds did fairly well so not too much heartburn about that The account I moved to Schwaub amounted to 830 K Of that 267K is invested in bonds and CDs in the form of a five-year ladder. The remaining 563K has gone into the Schwab intelligent portfolio which is supposed to maintain a 45% stock position. The investments have just been purchased today and right now the stock is at 37%, fixed at 33% and cash is at 30%. I do not think they are done adjusting the percentages and believe that should happen within the next few days. With my Social Security and the immediate annuity payout I should only need about $1000 a month out of my portfolio. Typically when a bond or CD come do I am able to reinvest it out at the end of the ladder. As long as my income is sufficient to not even touch the intelligent portfolio my plan is to adjust it a little more aggressively. I will continue to monitor this site for any more good advice or suggestions. I appreciate all the thoughts. It seems like everyone is pulling and supporting the next guy

ZLMARK
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Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:17 am

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ZLMARK » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:07 pm

Altogether I think in terms of simple. I have a fraction of what you have socked away. Not sure how much of your
portfolio is personal/taxable money. I have taken a different approach. After reading a half dozen books;
Warren Buffett, Tony Robbins, Bogleheads and one other author that went into an All Weather Portfolio
which Tony Robbins talks about too. While Vanguard would absolutely want you in a 60/40 stock-bond type
portfolio I took a hard look at Warren Buffett and his philosophy. Warren portfolio 90% V-500 VFIAX and
then 10% short term government bonds.
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/p ... -sound.asp
Sounds a little hard core huh? But is it? 90% stocks gives Vanguard heart palpitations. For the longest time I
had gone with Vanguards Life Strategy VSMGX, a typical 60/40 portfolio. So back to the discussion. Is Buffett
crazy or does he understand that you are going to do just fine with V500 fund. People get squeemish with such
a thought but read this https://money.cnn.com/2015/02/28/invest ... index.html

So where did I land? I took into account WB and his thoughts and and another author that espoused not
having a portfolio where everything is pulling the same direction. Sounds a lot like a 60/40 portfolio is some
respects. So here it is. I call my portfolio the Buffett 50/50 portfolio. VFIAX and VSIAX 50% + 50%. Total
expense ratio .05% (that's not a typo). Vanguard 500 + Vanguard Small Cap Value. Crazy simple. The small cap
value is more than small cap as it get well into the mid caps. All stocks dangerous? But are they really?
I see gyrations for sure but as WB don't get nervous. The Ups will outpace the Downs. Had my portfolio for
over a year now and pretty happy. Don't see myself changing.

Here is a tool to Backtest your portfolio.
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... sisResults I've spent many hours looking at
a multitude of portfolios before I pulled the trigger on mine.

.....here's one for you $100,000 in VFINX (V500 investor shares) from 1985 to present would be
worth $3.5 mil. Almost 11% CAGR (compounded annual growth rate).

Topic Author
DonS
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Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by DonS » Fri Mar 01, 2019 5:57 pm

Zlmark. Wow you give so much food for thought. I read the articles you mentioned and it’s really making me think about where I need to be. Personally I think you made good selections in your funds and the percentages. All of my funds are in a traditional IRA. The intelligent portfolio is supposed to provide near 4% returns. Actually when I was invested in Edward Jones I was at a 60% stock and 40% fixed. And believe it or not it was generating enough income for me that I did not have to touch the principal. Maybe that is why I was fat dumb and happy at the time. But I now realize I could’ve been much further ahead. I am going to see how things go for a while But I believe my final goal will be to get to be 60% equities and 40%fixed. I think I did all the right things along the way by contributing to my 401(k) fully and being slightly aggressive in my investments. Unfortunately my divorce and the hosing I took from Edward Jones set me back more than I would have been. I am retired but I think you have a much longer window ahead so we may not necessarily do the same things. But I certainly appreciate all of your thoughts on this matter.

nshous3
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by nshous3 » Fri Mar 01, 2019 10:56 pm

DonS: Bogleheads helped me, too, same as you.

Thank goodness I discovered it at age 32. I'm already upset at how much money/opportunity I wasted because of Edward Jones, but it could've been so much worse.

I went with Schwab, too. I'm DIY'ing my portfolio using a few index funds.

HAWK23
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Joined: Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:59 pm

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by HAWK23 » Sat Mar 02, 2019 8:12 am

DonS wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:51 pm
I feel the folks at Schwab are treating me well. They are covering the $95 per account EJ termination fee across four accounts as well as 200 free trades for the next two years. And a referral of $100 since my partner has a small account. I feel like a great weight has been lifted off of me!
I did exactly as you did a couple years ago (because of this forum) - moved from Edward Jones to Schwab. Schwab has been great. Like you said, they covered the transfer fees and gave me some free trades. I even went on the little help chat thing and asked if they could give more since I ran out (they gave me way less due to my portfolio size) and they even gave me free new ones and told me to come back when I run out again and they could see what they can do to give more.

I keep thinking about moving from Schwab to fidelity (bc I use some ishares index funds which would be nice to have covered comission free) but Schwab has been great and has basically been covering them anyway giving free trades. Really like them a lot!

ukwildcat
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ukwildcat » Sat Mar 02, 2019 10:17 am

Congrats on making the decision of going to Schwab. Like you, I was an uneducated investor and got stuck for some major $$.

I would recommend reading the Coffeehouse Investor, any of the John Bogle, Larry Swedroe or Bill Bernstein books. Great common sense information.

The truth shall set you free!

ZLMARK
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:17 am

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ZLMARK » Sat Mar 02, 2019 11:58 am

Don, after reading your last post and you are thinking in terms of a 4% return, this matter stands out to me.
Bear in mind The Thief in the Night, Mr. Inflation. After what we think we have we now need to
subtract for inflation, presently running 2%. That number on my previous post having to do with
V500 since 1985 to present; $3.5 mil. Now take a look at the real number; $1.468 mil. after inflation
eats at your wonderful amount over the years. You now have less than half of the $3.5 mil.
So at 4% you are barely treading water. With my portfolio my age (67) doesn't enter into the picture.
Mostly we have been conditioned to think in terms of 'Gotta have bonds' to make a portfolio. I can
hear that in your conversation. That's fine. If gyrations bother you I would go that direction.
I would say spend a good amount of time reading and testing before you make a move as I did.
I'm not concerned with the ups and downs as I know they will end up north in end. I do think
you can do much better in a 60/40 portfolio. Take a look at Vanguard's Life Strategy
all in one fund. They have 4 different levels. I was with VSMGX. All the Life Strategy funds do
is change the ratio of Bonds and Stocks. They use their Total Stock index and their Total Bond
in different ratios. Vanguard also has their Target Funds which do the very same as VSMGX except
they have target dates for your retirement and change the ratios automatically. I wouldn't say there
is anything inherently wrong with the Life Strategy or Target funds except I happen to agree with Buffett
with respect to stocks are not dangerous if you think long. Bogle in his later days has made mention of
the Target funds how relevant that you need to have bonds/stock ratio as your plan. I don't think in terms
of money is going away when we have a downturn, and the market will go south. You still own the shares and they are
going to come back.
https://www.cnbc.com/video/2018/10/26/k ... 0o%27leary

Here is another one to look at Vanguard's VWENX Wellington Fund. It has a different ratio 65/35 and leans
to large value. You'll need $50k to get into the admiral shares and a .17% expense ratio. They fund has been
around since 1929, refer to their VWELX investor share for that 1929 figure or for testing purposes that would
then allow you go test back for a longer period of time. I got with my sister a year ago when I heard she had
a financial planner and didn't want her to end up with a Edward Jones or the likes of my previous financial planner.
Come to find out she had her money in a Vanguard Money Market fund. Ughh! Talk about money under the
mattress. And 10 years from now she would have had $100k minus the inflation rate. So 10 years X 2% (projected
inflation rate) is $100k (minus) 20%= $80k. We finally got her into to VWENX. The point of this conversation is
make sure you take into account inflation with your long term projections.

In closing, do a lot of reading and testing to see what you are comfortable with. As a number have read my earlier
posts don't do what I did without a good amount of homework first. If you have a wife and family this is another
consideration you need to think about. I don't have those considerations. Am I a daredevil? Nope. Am I stupid?
Don't think so but in time we'll find out. I'm thinking 75 years old and beyond. After all is said and done:
DO YOUR HOMEWORK don't listen to me!

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=156573&newpost=2349057

posting.php?mode=reply&f=1&t=274305 ...this one is suppose to read
as 'What Experts Say About Simplicity' but is not coming up I think.

WHAT EXPERTS SAY ABOUT https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/What_th ... _investing

Here are some wonderful axioms to run with:

Warren Buffet: "To invest successfully, you need not understand beta, efficient markets, modern portfolio theory, option pricing or emerging markets. You may, in fact, be better off knowing nothing of these."

Scott Burns, creator of The Couch Potato Strategy: The advocates of complexity are generally people who are making their living from the complexity they create for us.”

Ben Carlson, author of A Wealth of Common Sense: ""I’ve spent my entire career working in portfolio management. This experience has taught me that less is always more when making investment decisions. Simplicity trumps complexity."

Albert Einstein: "The five ascending levels of intellect are: smart, intelligent, brilliant, genius, simple."

Morningstar Guide to Mutual Funds: "Good investing doesn't have to be complicated. In fact, simplification may lead to better investment results."

Bob Pisani, CNBC: "Increasing complexity does not decrease risk, it increases risk."

Bob Pisani, CNBC: "Increasing complexity does not decrease risk, it increases risk."

John Markese, CEO of American Association of Individual Investors: "If you have more than eight funds you should slap yourself."

Topic Author
DonS
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by DonS » Sat Mar 02, 2019 6:01 pm

Zlmark. Wow you have sure put a lot of time and effort into your comments. I promise I will read all of those articles you suggested and I’m going to look for some of the books. When I went to Schwaub I was telling them I was hoping to end up with a 60/40 mix in the intelligent portfolio. Somehow after going through the questionnaire I ended up with a 45/55 mix. I agree I have not been considering the inflation factor and I definitely need to make adjustments in the portfolio. My goal is to make most of my income through the fixed investments. I also want to leave the stock portion of the portfolio alone and only pull money out of there when the market is doing really good and put those funds into more fixed income. The idea being eventually I will have more than enough fixed income that I never have to touch the stock again. At that point I can possibly be even a little more aggressive with the stock portion. I might also mention that my lady friend who I live with has a bigger portfolio than I and she is very generous in sharing the household expenses. So I do not believe I have to pull very much money out of the intelligent portfolio which is my goal. I value your thoughts on this matter and now it looks like I’ll have lots of homework but that’s a good thing. When you have someone doing all the work all the time as far as investing it becomes a little intimidating when you move on and leave them in the past. But I am not fearful because there is plenty of information out there and right now I am in a pretty safe place.

ZLMARK
Posts: 30
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:17 am

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ZLMARK » Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:50 am

Thanks for the kind compliments Don. Hopefully I was of some help in your thought process. My blood boils when I hear what happens
to people like yourself (and me). There is a reason people are leaving financial planners, and I use the term lightly, in droves and
heading to Schwab and Vanguard. Vanguard now at $4.5 trillion and growing. Wish I could get one of those used car salesmen into
a $100. bet; my portfolio against your EJ's best. It would be like taking candy from a baby. What happened to you is not so different
than what is currently happening to so many others. Did they also (for your own good of course) sell you insurance? Whenever I hear
financial planner a red flag goes up. Doesn't matter, CFP or whatever. They will win and drive away in their late model Mercedes
as they drive to the bank. Cynical? Check! Hope you find time to watch that 1.5 hour Frontline story. America has seen one of the
biggest hoaxes played on us with these financial planners.

I will keep this post bookmarked and would enjoy hearing how you have done with your new financial affair, sans EJ.
...here is a fun one to look at. Buffett bets hedge fund manager. WB knew the outcome before he started the bet.
"Easy Bet" he said. He was just just happy he had a foolish hedge fund manager to take the bet.

FYI, WB will in the end give most of his money away but the remainder he has advised his children to invest in his 90/10
portfolio as described in my earlier post. I think he is going to Vanguard remaining estate.
Best of luck Don.

https://money.cnn.com/2018/02/24/invest ... index.html

Topic Author
DonS
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:25 pm

Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by DonS » Mon Mar 04, 2019 11:53 am

Good day ZLMARK
Yes I watched the Frontline documentary. I saw lots of interviewees squirming. I couldn't believe some of their comments and denials. There is so much more I wished I knew back then. But it's water over the dam and just look to the future and do the smart things. I have to say I did not bite when the EJ rep suggested life insurance as a way to pass on inheritance. I told him I already had enough through the company I worked for. I would like to tell you a little about the annuity he snookered me with. I was married at the time and he said he had a way to get me guaranteed income for life with a variable annuity. So the novice investor bit on it and signed up for a 250K annuity. I was 59 at the time and it would not pay out until I was 65. The minimum was around 15K per year unless it increased in value through its' investments. Then I started getting statements and saw all the fees and deductions and I became a bit queasy. A few years later I became divorced and saw they were taking out approximately $800 a quarter for a program that would provide survivor benefit for my ex. I tried to get the contract changed to eliminate that charge but they wouldn't budge. So I cashed it in and that cost another $7K. For a 250K policy I ended up with 238K after several years. The EJ rep says I have to put the proceeds into an immediate annuity so that money went there. So basically they are just giving me my own money back and I will only profit when I live past 80. Not sure if I will make it past 80 because EJ has permanently raised my blood pressure for what they have done to me. I tried to cash that in and was told by Lincoln Financial that there was no possibility of cashing it in. Just think how much money lost with this boondoggle. I'm just hoping others can read a thread like this to stay clear of Edward Jones or get out immediately if you are in!

ZLMARK
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ZLMARK » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:21 pm

Sad to hear about your annuity debacle. These slippery, slimy, lying salespeople know exactly how to play people. Can't say I know enough
about annuities but Tony Robbins in "Money-Master the Game" goes into to the annuity thing. I know Vanguard has very low cost
annuities which is where I would go if I were interested. This really is something, when these reps with EJ know your finances they jump
in to capitalize at your expense with no conscience whatsoever. They justify what they have done in some convoluted slimy way that
polished over the years. I will save this thread for someone else to read if they so much as think they wanted to head the direction of
a financial planner. You have to tread carefully but your info is the smoking gun that people need to hear about. So very sad what they
have done to you. You got robbed in broad daylight. Doesn't matter, EJ or I saw on TV last night Prudential, all of the same cloth.
They will win and you will take the financial hit. I hope you able to share and educate some friends that utter the words financial
planner. I know there are others that go fleeced by these used car salesmen left their finances in dire condition. This is nothing more than a
legal Bernie Madoff. Keep us posted Don.

....tell people if they absolutely need a financial planner to see Vanguard at .3%. A good bet I think. ...they don't use the word
financial planner though, they call their service Personal Advisors. This is Vanguard, they will operate as a true Fiduciary.
You're right, water under the bridge. You and I will weather the storm. I feel bad for those others that continue to stay
sucked into the the EJ orbit only to find out only when irreparable damage has been done.
Last edited by ZLMARK on Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

baritone
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by baritone » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:40 pm

Today I don't have time to peruse all these responses so sorry if I'm redundant......the part that makes me grit my teeth the most was all the 5.75% loads (what I call the cover charge at the bar) that I paid to EJ. I was so ignorant at the start that I thought ALL funds had this. For these loads we get NOTHING. Not until I saw The Retirement Gamble on PBS, mentioned in someone else's musings here, that I began to educate myself. I'm still FUMING!
Welcome to the ranks of us "ex-suckers".

ZLMARK
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ZLMARK » Mon Mar 04, 2019 12:47 pm

Baritone, the ranks are long in the "Sucker" department. That 5.75% is their "Sales Charge". Customary mind you if you listen to
to their used car sales pitch. Just help others that wish to turn to the likes of, but not limited to, Edward Jones and have them
read this thread. Like I said earlier, this may be one of the biggest hoaxes played on (all) of us since Bernie Madoff.
The sad part is that people walk into their doors everyday and the fleecing continues on and on.

GatorFL
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by GatorFL » Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:49 pm

I am also a former EJ survivor. I was dumb enough to sign up with them, although I did negotiate the front end fees from 5.75% down to 2.5% based on the assets I brought in. I still cringe when I think of that money gone! I still cannot believe I was stupid enough to sign up with them 10 years ago. I lasted 3 years, found this forum and then left. I truly despise that former EJ charlatan. I have steered many people to this forum including my kids.

It is truly disgusting what they do. They collect their fee up front knowing that people eventually discover that they have been taken and then there is no recourse but to leave. When I decided to leave, I drove straight to the guy's office and confronted him in front of his office admin and others. It felt good to look him in the eye and call him a crook. Doesn't bring the money back though.....

I personally think they need to continue to be outed in as many legal ways as possible. We have a responsibility to help steer future victims away from them.
Gator

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StormShadow
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by StormShadow » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:00 pm

GatorFL wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 1:49 pm
When I decided to leave, I drove straight to the guy's office and confronted him in front of his office admin and others. It felt good to look him in the eye and call him a crook.
Yeah... I wouldn't recommend going this route. Doesn't do much, except possibly get you arrested for assault/harassment.

In their "somewhat" defense, I don't think what they are doing is all too different from what many (most?) financial advisers and investment bankers have been doing since... well... forever. And I do think there is value in having someone prevent you from making rash and hasty stock decisions. I suppose the dollar value of that service is debatable.

Playing with the stock market can leave you flat broke if you don't know what you're doing. Frankly, I think most people DON'T know what they are doing.

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G12
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by G12 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 2:36 pm

DonS wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:37 am
Hi bogleheads

I will just give you some examples of how they mislead me. I was talked into an immediate annuity even though I protested that everything I read said that was not a good investment. But I deferred to the “expert “ They converted almost half of my assets into the advisory solutions and downplayed the cost of it in fees by saying it wasn’t much more than the expense ratios for my other mutual funds. What does that say about the expense ratios of my funds?

He invested in one fund to the amount of $50,000 and after four years later the cost of loss is $13,000. When he was confronted with that he said you shouldn’t complain because it is earning you 4% a year and I did not get a loss unless I sold it. And yes they are very very smooth as they seduce you. He once told me that if I cannot have complete trust in him then we probably should not do business. After that comment I should’ve ran like crazy because my inner alarm bells were going off. But I didn’t and that’s why I am here today.
A friend who is 62 asked me to look at her investments this past weekend. She wants to work another 2 years then either retire or do something part time. She sent me statements for an IRA and a taxable account, she also has a 401k and pension with her employer that I did not evaluate, plus some CDs, etc. She has very minimal investment knowledge, is not a high income earner, yet has managed to put away multiple 6-figures. The 2 accounts combined had concentrated small cap exposure of over 80%, and the expense ratio of the largest holding was 1.3% and had a 5.5% front load. The small cap fund's annual cost was over $2,600 and, after asking, she had zero idea what small cap stocks are. Then she found another mutual fund account with a 3rd company that had approximately $85k in 2 more high cost funds, one Oppenheimer fund at 1.84%. The deck is very much stacked against the uninformed. On the other hand, she has increased her wealth by sitting on her hands and not trading. She is moving everything to Vanguard, have to see what the potential tax costs are before selling the current holdings. This all came about due to her "guy" retiring 5 months ago, I guess he did well for himself. He was not with EJ.

DB2
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by DB2 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 3:50 pm

Prior to learning about this forum and doing my own research, I had blindly worked with TD Ameritrade. It was a managed "Growth" portfolio (19 mutual funds!!!) and charged me 'only' 1% for all expenses (although in retrospect I'm starting to wonder if other costs were built in that I was not seeing or told on the surface). Sounds like one of the better deals out there for what it was; I was in it for about nine months before getting out and finding the light.

ZLMARK
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ZLMARK » Mon Mar 04, 2019 6:03 pm

I will make a few comments so we don't just single out Edward Jones. There is a long list of others out there just like EJ and that are
all too willing to help you while they stab you in the back.
With respect to fund costs. One really needs to take a hard look at what their funds cost. Backlodaded, front loaded they all eat at profits.
How many know what a 12B1 fee is? This is a real gem. This is the fee they charge you to advertise that fund. When I unpacked my
affairs from my financial planner as little as knew I was banging my head on the wall saying "This is Horrible"! All the fees left me
saying WTF. Best think that ever happened to me was Vanguard after a modest amount of study. Done a lot more study since then.
Currently my two funds cost me .05% That's $50. a year per $100,000. Practically air. Before one gets into a fund I think you should
get the ticker symbol and check out all the fees on this fund. Fees will beat you up! For those that feel that you need to do a whole
lot of effort to get yourself a portfolio I would suggest going to a Vanguard all-in-one fund like Life Strategy. I had VSMGX for a bunch
of years. A perfectly fine fund. Or Wellington VWENX, I like this one better. Whatever you do get out of of EJ or wherever you are at with
a financial planner. This board is probably all the financial planner you will need. FYI there are Bogleheads books. I have two.
....Well done Gator on calling that con-man out.
Last edited by ZLMARK on Tue Mar 05, 2019 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

BogleMelon
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by BogleMelon » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:14 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:20 pm
dogagility wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:07 pm
Welcome! Sorry to hear your tail of woe. :(
My hometown of about 8000 people has 3, yes 3!, independent EJ offices in town. I cringe every time I think of the farmers and first-generation investors losing so much money...
It is indeed terrible. I wish schools would teach about investing principles but we would need teachers who know the basics.
I have a friend who has kids in a school that teaches investing basics. The teacher runs a competition among the students to see who can pick stocks that appreciate the most during a certain period (using Monopoly virtual money). In other words, the first thing those poor students are taught in investing, is how to beat the market by doing day trades :oops:
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

Dottie57
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by Dottie57 » Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:49 pm

BogleMelon wrote:
Mon Mar 04, 2019 10:14 pm
Dottie57 wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:20 pm
dogagility wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:07 pm
Welcome! Sorry to hear your tail of woe. :(
My hometown of about 8000 people has 3, yes 3!, independent EJ offices in town. I cringe every time I think of the farmers and first-generation investors losing so much money...
It is indeed terrible. I wish schools would teach about investing principles but we would need teachers who know the basics.
I have a friend who has kids in a school that teaches investing basics. The teacher runs a competition among the students to see who can pick stocks that appreciate the most during a certain period (using Monopoly virtual money). In other words, the first thing those poor students are taught in investing, is how to beat the market by doing day trades :oops:
Maybe the teacher should be given a copy of “IfYouCan.pdf”.

Creditcardguy
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by Creditcardguy » Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:08 pm

Ahhhhhhhh... free at last.

My Edward Jones IRA’s were finally transferred to Fidelity and settled into a 3 fund portfolio Monday. Well, actually Tuesday because when I sold the EJ stuff Monday I was out of the market for a day. :( Was a bit of a pain because the Guided Solutions had to be moved to cash by EJ before they would transfer, so they rejected the first time. Nice to see my EJ portfolio say ZERO as of today. I can sleep easy knowing I’m in super low cost index funds. I’m also in the middle of “The 3 Fund Portfolio”, which just confirms that I’ve made the right choice. I even sold my “play money” stock account today, so I don’t have to worry if NVDA will crash tomorrow for some weird reason, for example. I’m going to keep it simple. :happy

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ruralavalon
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ruralavalon » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:34 am

Creditcardguy wrote:
Wed Mar 13, 2019 6:08 pm
Ahhhhhhhh... free at last.

My Edward Jones IRA’s were finally transferred to Fidelity and settled into a 3 fund portfolio Monday. Well, actually Tuesday because when I sold the EJ stuff Monday I was out of the market for a day. :( Was a bit of a pain because the Guided Solutions had to be moved to cash by EJ before they would transfer, so they rejected the first time. Nice to see my EJ portfolio say ZERO as of today. I can sleep easy knowing I’m in super low cost index funds. I’m also in the middle of “The 3 Fund Portfolio”, which just confirms that I’ve made the right choice. I even sold my “play money” stock account today, so I don’t have to worry if NVDA will crash tomorrow for some weird reason, for example. I’m going to keep it simple. :happy
Congratulations on escaping from Edward Jones :D
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

ZLMARK
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ZLMARK » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:07 pm

Ditto on the congratulations! You did a very smart thing. Hopefully others will have read this thread and bail.
What they do is purely obscene. Always curious what an EJ portfolio might look like so I can test it out.
Can you provide the ticker symbols along with the approx percentages of each?

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dratkinson
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by dratkinson » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:40 pm

yogesh wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:03 am
I just saw EJ advertisement in my son's daycare. A piggy bank with EJ logo on it and inviting for college fund investments. Someone is going to sucked into it not just paying for their own kids college but also paying for advisor's retirement. I want to put a boglehead logo or a copy of book next to it.
Saw a TV ad for Edward Jones the other night on PBS with the nightly business news. Couldn't believe it, had to look twice.
d.r.a, not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.

Creditcardguy
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by Creditcardguy » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:21 pm

ZLMARK wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:07 pm
Ditto on the congratulations! You did a very smart thing. Hopefully others will have read this thread and bail.
What they do is purely obscene. Always curious what an EJ portfolio might look like so I can test it out.
Can you provide the ticker symbols along with the approx percentages of each?
Ok, just for you, I went back and figured the percentages... :)

AGTHX (American Growth Fund of America, no really) 24.8% class a
CWGIX (American Capital World Growth & Inc) 19.9% class a
NEWCX (American New World Class C) 4.6%
NPFCX (American New Perspective Class C) 40.9%
SCWCX (American Small Cap World Class C) 9.9%

This was the American Funds, the Guided Solutions are all proprietary, transferred as cash, so I’m not sure what was in there.

yogesh
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by yogesh » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:02 pm

Creditcardguy wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:21 pm
ZLMARK wrote:
Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:07 pm
Ditto on the congratulations! You did a very smart thing. Hopefully others will have read this thread and bail.
What they do is purely obscene. Always curious what an EJ portfolio might look like so I can test it out.
Can you provide the ticker symbols along with the approx percentages of each?
Ok, just for you, I went back and figured the percentages... :)

AGTHX (American Growth Fund of America, no really) 24.8% class a
CWGIX (American Capital World Growth & Inc) 19.9% class a
NEWCX (American New World Class C) 4.6%
NPFCX (American New Perspective Class C) 40.9%
SCWCX (American Small Cap World Class C) 9.9%

This was the American Funds, the Guided Solutions are all proprietary, transferred as cash, so I’m not sure what was in there.
What’s the weighted ER for this compared to VTWAX (0.1%)?
Emergency: FDIC | Taxable: VTMFX | Retirement: TR2040

ExitStageLeft
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ExitStageLeft » Thu Mar 14, 2019 7:49 pm

I don't like the idea of coming to EJ's defense, but I think a little perspective is in order. As I understand it, returns quoted on M* etc are after fund expenses. Looking at the 5 American funds, they did a little better than a comparable three-fund index portfolio over the last eight years:

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ation8_2=5

Subtracting out a 1% AUM fee they were dead even compared to the Vanguard portfolio. I have a hard time calling that obscene. The load fees for AGTHX and CWGIX are 5.75%, which can be fairly considered obscene. The other funds only have a 1% load. Taking into account loads and AUM fees, an investor in Portfolio 1 in the link above would have had about $16,500 at the end of 2018, whereas the VG portfolio was worth $17,000.

This is very much how my wife's IRA at EJ performed. It was expensive, but during the bull market it held its own very well against my index portfolio. There was no churning, and the fund allocations matched my wife's risk profile. As long as the market returns were consistently good, it held up very well.

Creditcardguy
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by Creditcardguy » Thu Mar 14, 2019 8:37 pm

My American funds did pretty well until this last year, still not too bad. My fear is 1) They don’t use American funds anymore, 2) The Guided Solutions cost more and didn’t perform as well, and 3) reversion to the mean.

That, plus all of the reasons in The Bogleheads Guide to the 3 fund portfolio, makes me happy, happy, happy I’m with Fidelity.

ZLMARK
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by ZLMARK » Fri Mar 15, 2019 10:01 am

Thanks Yogesh. I'm going to look at the funds and test out and tell you what my thoughts are.

yogesh
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by yogesh » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:41 pm

I hold VTMFX (0.1%) and it compares well to American TAIFX (0.7%) for a balanced 50/50 fund. American funds are similar to Fidelity’s actively managed equity funds if they get rid of load and keep ER < 0.5% much like Vanguard actively managed funds.

It’s 2019 and investors are calling for:
Passive funds < 0.1%
Active funds < 0.3%

Off all these only Vanguard guarantees reduction in ER as AUM grows. Others can go back and forth about it.
Emergency: FDIC | Taxable: VTMFX | Retirement: TR2040

Elena
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Re: Another Edward Jones defector

Post by Elena » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:10 pm

chw wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 6:30 pm
Congrats on your move, and don't look back.
By the way, I would ask Schwab if they will offer you a deposit bonus based on the size of the account you brought to them.
+1
I just received $1000 from TD for transferring $250000 worth of assets (taxable acct.), plus 300 free trades that will go unused. It seems the ideal situation for OP to ask for a similar figure, since such offers are common.

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