VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

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sixtyforty
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VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by sixtyforty »

Any of you own one or more of the funds listed ? If so, what made you choose it over other choices ?

I've run all three in PV. VWLEX seems to generate higher returns. VWINX has lower returns but I'm impressed with it's higher sharpe and sortino ratios. I like VBIAX low expense ratio and it's real simple 60/40 index based.

VWELX = Vanguard Wellington Fund
VWINX = Vanguard Wellesley Income Fund
VBIAX = Vanguard Balanced Index (Admiral) Fund
Last edited by sixtyforty on Thu Feb 07, 2019 5:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mhalley
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by mhalley »

They all have their pluses and minuses. 2 have higher stock allocations so it is expected they will have higher returns and be more volatile. A combo of wellington and Wellesley has often been touted as a good retireee portfolio. They are active, somewhat concentrated funds so who knows if the outperformance will continue.
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David Jay
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by David Jay »

You may want to give the fund names.

With all the different classes (plus ETFs!), I can’t even tell you off the top of my head some of the tickers I hold. For instance my Small Cap Value. I used to hold it as an ETF: “SCV” and that is still my mental shorthand so sitting here I can’t tell you the Admiral ticker for my holding.
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Mike Scott
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by Mike Scott »

I have had all three at one time or another in the past in tax advantaged accounts. They each have particular characteristics. If you read their fund descriptions, they will describe the fundamental differences among them so you can see which one if any of them matches your needs. None of these match my current IPS so I have moved to holding separate individual stock / bond / money market funds. None of these three are "best" or "worst". They simply do different things so you have to find one that matches your individual needs.
Bronco Billy
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by Bronco Billy »

mhalley wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:20 am A combo of wellington and Wellesley has often been touted as a good retireee portfolio.
Thanks... I am only in VWINX and been considering doing a 50/50 split with VWELX. Didn't know what others would think of that idea.
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Munir
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by Munir »

I don't know how the OP's question can be answered until one knows more facts (including full names of the funds) such as age of OP, is this retirement money such as in an IRA, what other assets does OP own, and when he/she might sell the funds in the future i.e timeline.
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ReformedSpender
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by ReformedSpender »

A few points on VWELX:

* The longtime fund manager, John Keogh, is retiring June 2019. Could be a nothing-burger
* Wellington fund has seen some hefty capital gains distributions the last year or two due to several factors. Best to put this one in tax-advantage accounts imo

:beer
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balbrec2
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by balbrec2 »

For the best of both worlds, do a 50/50 split between the balanced index fund
and Wellesley income. You will have a combo of active and index as well approximately
a 50/50 AA. Plug that into your portfolio visualizer. :happy
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sixtyforty
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by sixtyforty »

David Jay wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:27 am You may want to give the fund names.

With all the different classes (plus ETFs!), I can’t even tell you off the top of my head some of the tickers I hold. For instance my Small Cap Value. I used to hold it as an ETF: “SCV” and that is still my mental shorthand so sitting here I can’t tell you the Admiral ticker for my holding.
Done !
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sixtyforty
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by sixtyforty »

Bronco Billy wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 1:30 pm
mhalley wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 11:20 am A combo of wellington and Wellesley has often been touted as a good retireee portfolio.
Thanks... I am only in VWINX and been considering doing a 50/50 split with VWELX. Didn't know what others would think of that idea.
Agree. I do like that idea.
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sixtyforty
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by sixtyforty »

Munir wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:03 pm I don't know how the OP's question can be answered until one knows more facts (including full names of the funds) such as age of OP, is this retirement money such as in an IRA, what other assets does OP own, and when he/she might sell the funds in the future i.e timeline.
I updated original post with the full names.

Anyway, this would most likely be in an tax advantaged account. I might start making withdrawals six or seven years from now. I also have a taxable account where I am considering one or more of these funds.
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sixtyforty
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by sixtyforty »

ReformedSpender wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:06 pm A few points on VWELX:

* The longtime fund manager, John Keogh, is retiring June 2019. Could be a nothing-burger
* Wellington fund has seen some hefty capital gains distributions the last year or two due to several factors. Best to put this one in tax-advantage accounts imo

:beer
Good info. Thanks.
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willthrill81
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by willthrill81 »

An important aspect to keep in mind with all of these funds is that they are unlikely to match their historic performance over the course of the next decade (I say decade because that's viewed as the approximate limit by which bond returns can be forecasted). This is mainly due to the fact that interest rates fell significantly from 1981-2012, which boosted bond returns over that period significantly and is very unlikely to be repeated any time soon.
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lifeisinmirrors
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by lifeisinmirrors »

Wellesley is my largest holding right now, and fills its role of being a relatively safe fund with slow growth. I am still not sold on bond index funds, so I'm happy with Wellesley's management picking most of my bonds. They have a great track record and quite low fees for an active fund.

The other two funds mentioned will likely have higher returns over time, but are not really comparable because much more of their allocation is in stocks.
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stemikger
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by stemikger »

I'm all in with the balanced index fund. It is all indexed, low cost and an excellent long-term track record. It's almost like the couch potato portfolio all in one fund. Its static AA of 60/40 is perfect for the moderate investor who wants returns and a smoother ride. John Bogle was recommending this fund for many years and he choose this for the money he gifted to his Grandchildren. When it comes to index funds or managed funds, I rather be in index funds, even if the managed funds are low cost from Vanguard.
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Taylor Larimore
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by Taylor Larimore »

sixtyforty wrote: Thu Feb 07, 2019 10:43 am Any of you own one or more of the funds listed ? If so, what made you choose it over other choices ?

I've run all three in PV. VWLEX seems to generate higher returns. VWINX has lower returns but I'm impressed with it's higher sharpe and sortino ratios. I like VBIAX low expense ratio and it's real simple 60/40 index based.

VWELX = Vanguard Wellington Fund
VWINX = Vanguard Wellesley Income Fund
VBIAX = Vanguard Balanced Index (Admiral) Fund
sixtyforty:

Generally speaking, I do not like balanced funds:

They lock us into a fixed allocation.

Either the stocks or the bonds may be in the wrong type of account.

They are tax-inefficient.

Most are managed funds which (on average) underperform index funds.

Managers change.

Best wishes.
Taylor
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Carlos Danger
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by Carlos Danger »

Wellesley is 33% of our overall portfolio giving us about a 20% allocation to bonds overall.

I do not care for the make-up of the total bond index fund, and in addition to using Wellesley's cheap active management for our bonds, I also get a slice of our portfolio dedicated to mostly reasonably valued blue chip companies that pay dividends.
pascalwager
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by pascalwager »

Also, understand that these are nearly US-only funds, although Wellesley has 5% non-US stocks. If you were building your own portfolio, would you exclude non-US stocks? If so, then these funds might do the job for you, while also considering Taylor's reservations.
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by TxFLSTC »

If I look at 10 year returns for VWELX vs VBINX at Vanguard, thru April or May 2019, they are quite close, VWELX slightly ahead, but if I run a 10 yr comparison graph at Yahoo, VWELX comes in at about half ????? Thanks for any Help.
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sixtyforty
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by sixtyforty »

TxFLSTC wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 7:59 am If I look at 10 year returns for VWELX vs VBINX at Vanguard, thru April or May 2019, they are quite close, VWELX slightly ahead, but if I run a 10 yr comparison graph at Yahoo, VWELX comes in at about half ????? Thanks for any Help.
I believe Yahoo doesn't account for dividends re-invested.
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dbr
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Re: VWELX, VWINX, or VBIAX ?

Post by dbr »

sixtyforty wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 8:46 am
TxFLSTC wrote: Mon May 20, 2019 7:59 am If I look at 10 year returns for VWELX vs VBINX at Vanguard, thru April or May 2019, they are quite close, VWELX slightly ahead, but if I run a 10 yr comparison graph at Yahoo, VWELX comes in at about half ????? Thanks for any Help.
I believe Yahoo doesn't account for dividends re-invested.
Right, you can get actual return by using growth of $10,000 charts, reading the returns data listed under fund performance, or use Portfolio Visualizer. You don't want to look at price charts.
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