Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Have a question about your personal investments? No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here.
Post Reply
Topic Author
palciparum
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:51 pm

Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Post by palciparum » Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:39 am

Dear forum members,

I am posting with more details. Thanks in advance for all the replies.

My spouse (both of us are employed physicians with combined income of ~ 500K) has changed her job and is being offered Charles Schwab 401 K plan. We are thinking of rolling over her previous 401K (~90K). No match from employer.

We have moved to a different state with change of job which has no state income tax.

I am with new employer and will roll over my 401 K (~90K) to new employer. They have 401K with mass mutual. Don’t know the details yet.

No Roth or backdoor Roth IRA or any other IRA account.

Other than that, we have Vanguard account with total assets of $125k – VTSAX $17K, GOOGL $11K, AMZN $85K, APPL $4K, BAC $ 3K – We received dividends on VTSAX and APPL which we reinvest – ? good or bad idea.

We have no loans.

We have a residential lot (planned to build a home but never happened and now we moved) ~ 125K which we need to sell and plan to buy a home in next 6 months.

~700k in bank

For Spouse – Charles Schwab 401 K plan offered has following options:

(1) They will manage and charge 0.25% to 0.35%

(2) Can open PCRA – personal Choice Retirement Accoutn and link it to 401 K and can buy stocks/funds listed on NSADAQ/NYSE

(3) I can manage and choose from following options in which can choose between Employee Deferral 401K and Employee Roth 401K:

Stocks

Large Company
SCHX – Schwab US Large-Cap ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.03%

SCHG – Schwab US Large-Cap Growth ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%
SCHV – Schwab US Large-Cap Value ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%
VOO – Vanguard S&P 500 ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%

Small/Mid Co.
SCHM – Schwab US Mid-Cap ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.05%
SCHA – Schwab US Small-Cap ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%
VOT – Vanguard Mid-Cap Growth ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
VOE – Vanguard Mid-Cap Value ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
VBK – Vanguard Small-Cap Growth ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
VBR – Vanguard Small-Cap Value ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%

Intl/Global
EFG – iShares MSCI EAFE Growth ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.4%
SCZ – iShares MSCI EAFE Small-Cap ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.39%
EFV – iShares MSCI EAFE Value ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.38%
SCHE – Schwab Emerging Markets Equity ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.13%
SCHF – Schwab International Equity ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.06%

Specialty
IAU – iShares Gold Trust —-Net Expense Ratio 0.25%
SCHH – Schwab US REIT ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
RWX – SPDR Dow Jones International RelEst ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.59%
USCI – United States Commodity Index —-Net Expense Ratio 0.8%

Bonds
PCY – Invesco Emerging Markets Sov Debt ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.5%
IGOV – iShares International Treasury Bond ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.35%
SCHR – Schwab Intermediate-Term US Trs ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.06%
SCHZ – Schwab US Aggregate Bond ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%
SCHP – Schwab US TIPS ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.05%
JNK – SPDR Blmbg Barclays High Yield Bd ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.4%
SPSB – SPDR Portfolio Short Term Corp Bd ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
VGSH – Vanguard Short-Term Treasury ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%

Capital Preservation Bank Deposit
Schwab Bank Savings1 | Rate —- current APY is 1.51%
Total: (must total100%)



Thinking of investing in REIT and other Index funds. How to allocate investment between tax advantage and Non tax advantage accounts in tax advantageous way?

If we open back door Roth IRA, how should we use it for investment?

I would appreciate help with choosing from 401 K plan and in general financial advice.

Thank You

User avatar
ruralavalon
Posts: 14700
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:29 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Post by ruralavalon » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:17 pm

palciparum wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:39 am
Dear forum members,

I am posting with more details. Thanks in advance for all the replies.

My spouse (both of us are employed physicians with combined income of ~ 500K) has changed her job and is being offered Charles Schwab 401 K plan. We are thinking of rolling over her previous 401K (~90K). No match from employer.

We have moved to a different state with change of job which has no state income tax.

I am with new employer and will roll over my 401 K (~90K) to new employer. They have 401K with mass mutual. Don’t know the details yet.
I suggest not doing anything with your old 401k until you know the details of your new 401k.

The rollover decision depends almost entirely on whether the new plan or the old plan offers the better fund choices. The Mass Mutual plan may well have inferior fund options.

paiciparum wrote:No Roth or backdoor Roth IRA or any other IRA account.

Other than that, we have Vanguard account with total assets of $125k – VTSAX $17K, GOOGL $11K, AMZN $85K, APPL $4K, BAC $ 3K – We received dividends on VTSAX and APPL which we reinvest – ? good or bad idea.
I suggest reinvestment of all dividends in Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX), and not enlarging your investments in individual stocks.


paiciparum wrote:We have no loans.

We have a residential lot (planned to build a home but never happened and now we moved) ~ 125K which we need to sell and plan to buy a home in next 6 months.

~700k in bank
Make sure that earns a reasonable return. See my comment below on bank rates and possible funds.

paiciparum wrote: For Spouse – Charles Schwab 401 K plan offered has following options:

(1) They will manage and charge 0.25% to 0.35%

(2) Can open PCRA – personal Choice Retirement Accoutn and link it to 401 K and can buy stocks/funds listed on NSADAQ/NYSE

(3) I can manage and choose from following options in which can choose between Employee Deferral 401K and Employee Roth 401K:

Stocks

Large Company
SCHX – Schwab US Large-Cap ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.03%

SCHG – Schwab US Large-Cap Growth ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%
SCHV – Schwab US Large-Cap Value ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%
VOO – Vanguard S&P 500 ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%

Small/Mid Co.
SCHM – Schwab US Mid-Cap ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.05%
SCHA – Schwab US Small-Cap ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%
VOT – Vanguard Mid-Cap Growth ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
VOE – Vanguard Mid-Cap Value ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
VBK – Vanguard Small-Cap Growth ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
VBR – Vanguard Small-Cap Value ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%

Intl/Global
EFG – iShares MSCI EAFE Growth ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.4%
SCZ – iShares MSCI EAFE Small-Cap ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.39%
EFV – iShares MSCI EAFE Value ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.38%
SCHE – Schwab Emerging Markets Equity ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.13%
SCHF – Schwab International Equity ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.06%


Specialty
IAU – iShares Gold Trust —-Net Expense Ratio 0.25%
SCHH – Schwab US REIT ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
RWX – SPDR Dow Jones International RelEst ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.59%
USCI – United States Commodity Index —-Net Expense Ratio 0.8%

Bonds
PCY – Invesco Emerging Markets Sov Debt ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.5%
IGOV – iShares International Treasury Bond ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.35%
SCHR – Schwab Intermediate-Term US Trs ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.06%
SCHZ – Schwab US Aggregate Bond ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%
SCHP – Schwab US TIPS ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.05%
JNK – SPDR Blmbg Barclays High Yield Bd ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.4%
SPSB – SPDR Portfolio Short Term Corp Bd ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
VGSH – Vanguard Short-Term Treasury ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
I suggest that she use the 5 Schwab ETFs which I underlined, manage the account herself, and not pay Schwab to manage the account.

I don't see a need to use the PCRA.

What are your ages? Will her plan allow her to split the contributions some in traditional and some in Roth?

About how much (in dollars) do you expect to contribute annually to investing (total, all accounts)?

paiciparum wrote:Capital Preservation Bank Deposit
Schwab Bank Savings1 | Rate —- current APY is 1.51%
Total: (must total100%)
You can find better rates, see www.bankrate.com.

Or in your Vanguard according you might use use Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund (VMMXX) current SEC Yield = 2.48%, Vanguard Municipal Money Market Fund (VMSXX) current SEC Yield = 1.32%, or Vanguard Ultra Short-term Bond Fund (VUBFX) current SEC Yield = 2.73%.


paiciparum wrote:Thinking of investing in REIT and other Index funds. How to allocate investment between tax advantage and Non tax advantage accounts in tax advantageous way?
The REIT and bond fund should be in a tax-advantaged accounts, preferably in tax-deferred accounts like traditional 401ks.

Please see the wiki article "Tax-efficient Fund Placement".

In your taxable account use only very tax-efficient large-cap or total market type stock index funds. Examples include Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) ER 0.04% and Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) ER 0.11%. Those funds are also suitable for any type of account.


paiciparum wrote:If we open back door Roth IRA, how should we use it for investment?
Use stock index funds such as Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares VTSAX) ER 0.04% and Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) ER 0.11%.
Last edited by ruralavalon on Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

azianbob
Posts: 111
Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2019 6:53 pm

Re: Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Post by azianbob » Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:38 pm

You should consider contributing to a Roth 401k as you work in a tax free state, so you are locking in not paying state taxes, since it's a Roth, even if you retire into a state with income taxes, it won't cost you any tax to withdraw it there. Also, with the Trump tax cuts, tax brackets are historically low.

Topic Author
palciparum
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:51 pm

Re: Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Post by palciparum » Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:13 pm

ruralavalon wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 12:17 pm
palciparum wrote:
Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:39 am
Dear forum members,

I am posting with more details. Thanks in advance for all the replies.

My spouse (both of us are employed physicians with combined income of ~ 500K) has changed her job and is being offered Charles Schwab 401 K plan. We are thinking of rolling over her previous 401K (~90K). No match from employer.

We have moved to a different state with change of job which has no state income tax.

I am with new employer and will roll over my 401 K (~90K) to new employer. They have 401K with mass mutual. Don’t know the details yet.
I suggest not doing anything with your old 401k until you know the details of your new 401k.

The rollover decision depends almost entirely on whether the new plan or the old plan offers the better fund choices. The Mass Mutual plan may well have inferior fund options.

paiciparum wrote:No Roth or backdoor Roth IRA or any other IRA account.

Other than that, we have Vanguard account with total assets of $125k – VTSAX $17K, GOOGL $11K, AMZN $85K, APPL $4K, BAC $ 3K – We received dividends on VTSAX and APPL which we reinvest – ? good or bad idea.
I suggest reinvestment of all dividends in Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX), and not enlarging your investments in individual stocks.


paiciparum wrote:We have no loans.

We have a residential lot (planned to build a home but never happened and now we moved) ~ 125K which we need to sell and plan to buy a home in next 6 months.

~700k in bank
Make sure that earns a reasonable return. See my comment below on bank rates and possible funds.

paiciparum wrote: For Spouse – Charles Schwab 401 K plan offered has following options:

(1) They will manage and charge 0.25% to 0.35%

(2) Can open PCRA – personal Choice Retirement Accoutn and link it to 401 K and can buy stocks/funds listed on NSADAQ/NYSE

(3) I can manage and choose from following options in which can choose between Employee Deferral 401K and Employee Roth 401K:

Stocks

Large Company
SCHX – Schwab US Large-Cap ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.03%

SCHG – Schwab US Large-Cap Growth ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%
SCHV – Schwab US Large-Cap Value ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%
VOO – Vanguard S&P 500 ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%

Small/Mid Co.
SCHM – Schwab US Mid-Cap ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.05%
SCHA – Schwab US Small-Cap ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%
VOT – Vanguard Mid-Cap Growth ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
VOE – Vanguard Mid-Cap Value ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
VBK – Vanguard Small-Cap Growth ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
VBR – Vanguard Small-Cap Value ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%

Intl/Global
EFG – iShares MSCI EAFE Growth ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.4%
SCZ – iShares MSCI EAFE Small-Cap ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.39%
EFV – iShares MSCI EAFE Value ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.38%
SCHE – Schwab Emerging Markets Equity ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.13%
SCHF – Schwab International Equity ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.06%


Specialty
IAU – iShares Gold Trust —-Net Expense Ratio 0.25%
SCHH – Schwab US REIT ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
RWX – SPDR Dow Jones International RelEst ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.59%
USCI – United States Commodity Index —-Net Expense Ratio 0.8%

Bonds
PCY – Invesco Emerging Markets Sov Debt ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.5%
IGOV – iShares International Treasury Bond ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.35%
SCHR – Schwab Intermediate-Term US Trs ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.06%
SCHZ – Schwab US Aggregate Bond ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.04%
SCHP – Schwab US TIPS ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.05%
JNK – SPDR Blmbg Barclays High Yield Bd ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.4%
SPSB – SPDR Portfolio Short Term Corp Bd ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
VGSH – Vanguard Short-Term Treasury ETF —-Net Expense Ratio 0.07%
I suggest that she use the 5 Schwab ETFs which I underlined, manage the account herself, and not pay Schwab to manage the account.

I don't see a need to use the PCRA.

What are your ages? Will her plan allow her to split the contributions some in traditional and some in Roth?

About how much (in dollars) do you expect to contribute annually to investing (total, all accounts)?

paiciparum wrote:Capital Preservation Bank Deposit
Schwab Bank Savings1 | Rate —- current APY is 1.51%
Total: (must total100%)
You can find better rates, see www.bankrate.com.

Or in your Vanguard according you might use use Vanguard Prime Money Market Fund (VMMXX) current SEC Yield = 2.48%, Vanguard Municipal Money Market Fund (VMSXX) current SEC Yield = 1.32%, or Vanguard Ultra Short-term Bond Fund (VUBFX) current SEC Yield = 2.73%.


paiciparum wrote:Thinking of investing in REIT and other Index funds. How to allocate investment between tax advantage and Non tax advantage accounts in tax advantageous way?
The REIT and bond fund should be in a tax-advantaged accounts, preferably in tax-deferred accounts like traditional 401ks.

Please see the wiki article "Tax-efficient Fund Placement".

In your taxable account use only very tax-efficient large-cap or total market type stock index funds. Examples include Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) ER 0.04% and Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) ER 0.11%. Those funds are also suitable for any type of account.


paiciparum wrote:If we open back door Roth IRA, how should we use it for investment?
Use stock index funds such as Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares VTSAX) ER 0.04% and Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) ER 0.11%.
Thanks for the reply and advice.

I suggest that she use the 5 Schwab ETFs which I underlined, manage the account herself, and not pay Schwab to manage the account.
How to divide it %wise among those 5 plans?


What are your ages?
mid 40s

Will her plan allow her to split the contributions some in traditional and some in Roth?
Yes
Roth 401K- any advice given we don't have to pay state income tax at present

About how much (in dollars) do you expect to contribute annually to investing (total, all accounts)? Maximize for both of us - 401K and HSA account (hers). Will contribute to back door Roth IRA for both of us for 2018 if allowed.

After maximizing the above, in what accounts can I invest more? and what to invest in? Crowd funding? REIT? And if yes, which ones?

Should I put money in College plan (any benefit with living in state with no income tax)?

What about other Vanguard index funds? https://www.listenmoneymatters.com/best-vanguard-funds/

What account to open to invest after maximizing 401K, HSA and back door Roth?

User avatar
ruralavalon
Posts: 14700
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:29 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Post by ruralavalon » Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:42 am

Investment portfolio size.
paiciparum wrote:We have no loans.

We have a residential lot (planned to build a home but never happened and now we moved) ~ 125K which we need to sell and plan to buy a home in next 6 months.

~700k in bank
Is that $700k intended for a home purchase, or is some or all available for retirement investing?



Asset allocation.
Do you have a desired asset allocation (stock/bond mix, and domestic/international stock mix) which you want to aim for?
paiciparum wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:I suggest that she use the 5 Schwab ETFs which I underlined, manage the account herself, and not pay Schwab to manage the account.
How to divide it %wise among those 5 plans?
It's usually better to coordinate investments among all accounts, treating all accounts together as a single unified portfolio, rather than view each account in isolation.

Don't try to put each element of your desired asset allocation in each account.

This approach allows you to (1) avoid having to use any sub-par funds in your 401k, (2) avoid having to use any high expense funds, and (3) have good tax-efficiency in your taxable brokerage account.

For tax reasons it's important to use stock index funds in your taxable account, and put bond and REIT funds in the 401ks. Please see the wiki article "Tax-efficient Fund Placement".

In other words the percentages for each fund in her 401k will depend on the investments available in your 401k, and whether some part of the $700k is to be invested for retirement.

Also you both need to decide on a desired asset allocation.

paiciparum wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:What are your ages?
mid 40s
In the mid 40s I suggest around 30% in bonds or other fixed income. This is expected to substantially reduce portfolio volatility (risk), with only a relatively modest decrease in portfolio return.

I suggest around 20-30% of stock in international stocks. Historically 20% of stocks in international stocks would have captured about 85% of the maximum diversification benefit, and 30% of stocks in international stocks would have captured about 99% of the maximum diversification benefit. Vanguard paper "Considerations for Investing in Non-U.S Equities", p. 6.

I suggest around 05% of portfolio in a REIT index fund.

That works out to about 30% bonds, 15-20% international stocks, 05% REIT, and 45-50% other domestic stocks. Asset allocation is a very personal decision which you must make based on your own ability, willingness and need to take risk.


Roth versus traditional.
paiciparum wrote:
ruralavalon" wrote:Will her plan allow her to split the contributions some in traditional and some in Roth?
Yes
Roth 401K- any advice given we don't have to pay state income tax at present
The absence of a State income tax has almost no impact in your situation.

You are apparently in the 35% federal tax bracket, in your mid 40s, and currently have only $180k in tax-deferred retirement accounts.

In my opinion you are likely better off making traditional contributions to her 401k, and getting the benefit of the tax deduction. It appears that you will likely be in a lower tax bracket in retirement.

Please see the wiki article "Roth versus traditional", and the TFB blog post "The Case Against Roth 401k".


Contribution rate.
In my opinion your contribution rate will likely be more important than any other decision at this point.
paiciparum wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:About how much (in dollars) do you expect to contribute annually to investing (total, all accounts)?

Maximize for both of us - 401K and HSA account (hers). Will contribute to back door Roth IRA for both of us for 2018 if allowed.
You can contribute to the IRAs for the tax year 2018 (maximum = $5.5k each) anytime before April 15, 2019.

paiciparum wrote:After maximizing the above, in what accounts can I invest more? and what to invest in? Crowd funding? REIT? And if yes, which ones?
I don't suggest crowdfunding, and I strongly advise against investing in individual non-tradeable REITs.

I suggest contributing more to your taxable brokerage account at Vanguard.

After making maximum annual contributions to two 401ks ($19k each), two backdoor Roth IRAs ($6k each), and the HSA ($7k) (those are the limits for the tax year 2019), how much additional do you believe you might be able to contribute to investing annually?

You are in your mid 40s with only $305k invested ($90k your 401k, $90k her 401k, $125 taxable account).

In my opinion you will need to contribute more to retirement investing than the maximum annual limits of two 401ks, two backdoor Roth IRAs, and the HSA. Those maximums total $57k annually, or only 11% of income.

paiciparum wrote:Should I put money in College plan (any benefit with living in state with no income tax)?
In my opinion, no. I think it's a priority to get your retirement saving and investments on track.

paiciparum wrote:What about other Vanguard index funds? https://www.listenmoneymatters.com/best-vanguard-funds/

What account to open to invest after maximizing 401K HSA and back door Roth?
You already have a taxable brokerage account at Vanguard. In addition to making maximum annual contributions to the 401ks, IRAs and HSA contribute more to that Vanguard taxable account, and invest in very tax-efficient stock index funds. Examples include:
1) Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) ER 0.04%; and
2) Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) ER 0.11%.

The REIT Index fund and bond index funds are not tax-efficient, and should not be held in a taxable account.

Hold the REIT fund and bond fund in a tax-advantaged account, preferably a tax-deferred account like a traditional 401k. Please see the wiki article "Tax-efficient Fund Placement".

A low expense REIT Index fund (Schwab U.S. REIT ETF, SCHH) and a low expense total bond market index fund (Schwab U.S. Aggregate Bond ETF, SCHZ) are both offered in her 401k.

Was there some other fund from that MoneyMatters article that you had an interest in using?
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

Topic Author
palciparum
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:51 pm

Re: Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Post by palciparum » Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:48 pm

ruralavalon wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:42 am
Investment portfolio size.
paiciparum wrote:We have no loans.

We have a residential lot (planned to build a home but never happened and now we moved) ~ 125K which we need to sell and plan to buy a home in next 6 months.

~700k in bank
Is that $700k intended for a home purchase, or is some or all available for retirement investing?



Asset allocation.
Do you have a desired asset allocation (stock/bond mix, and domestic/international stock mix) which you want to aim for?
paiciparum wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:I suggest that she use the 5 Schwab ETFs which I underlined, manage the account herself, and not pay Schwab to manage the account.
How to divide it %wise among those 5 plans?
It's usually better to coordinate investments among all accounts, treating all accounts together as a single unified portfolio, rather than view each account in isolation.

Don't try to put each element of your desired asset allocation in each account.

This approach allows you to (1) avoid having to use any sub-par funds in your 401k, (2) avoid having to use any high expense funds, and (3) have good tax-efficiency in your taxable brokerage account.

For tax reasons it's important to use stock index funds in your taxable account, and put bond and REIT funds in the 401ks. Please see the wiki article "Tax-efficient Fund Placement".

In other words the percentages for each fund in her 401k will depend on the investments available in your 401k, and whether some part of the $700k is to be invested for retirement.

Also you both need to decide on a desired asset allocation.

paiciparum wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:What are your ages?
mid 40s
In the mid 40s I suggest around 30% in bonds or other fixed income. This is expected to substantially reduce portfolio volatility (risk), with only a relatively modest decrease in portfolio return.

I suggest around 20-30% of stock in international stocks. Historically 20% of stocks in international stocks would have captured about 85% of the maximum diversification benefit, and 30% of stocks in international stocks would have captured about 99% of the maximum diversification benefit. Vanguard paper "Considerations for Investing in Non-U.S Equities", p. 6.

I suggest around 05% of portfolio in a REIT index fund.

That works out to about 30% bonds, 15-20% international stocks, 05% REIT, and 45-50% other domestic stocks. Asset allocation is a very personal decision which you must make based on your own ability, willingness and need to take risk.


Roth versus traditional.
paiciparum wrote:
ruralavalon" wrote:Will her plan allow her to split the contributions some in traditional and some in Roth?
Yes
Roth 401K- any advice given we don't have to pay state income tax at present
The absence of a State income tax has almost no impact in your situation.

You are apparently in the 35% federal tax bracket, in your mid 40s, and currently have only $180k in tax-deferred retirement accounts.

In my opinion you are likely better off making traditional contributions to her 401k, and getting the benefit of the tax deduction. It appears that you will likely be in a lower tax bracket in retirement.

Please see the wiki article "Roth versus traditional", and the TFB blog post "The Case Against Roth 401k".


Contribution rate.
In my opinion your contribution rate will likely be more important than any other decision at this point.
paiciparum wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:About how much (in dollars) do you expect to contribute annually to investing (total, all accounts)?

Maximize for both of us - 401K and HSA account (hers). Will contribute to back door Roth IRA for both of us for 2018 if allowed.
You can contribute to the IRAs for the tax year 2018 (maximum = $5.5k each) anytime before April 15, 2019.

paiciparum wrote:After maximizing the above, in what accounts can I invest more? and what to invest in? Crowd funding? REIT? And if yes, which ones?
I don't suggest crowdfunding, and I strongly advise against investing in individual non-tradeable REITs.

I suggest contributing more to your taxable brokerage account at Vanguard.

After making maximum annual contributions to two 401ks ($19k each), two backdoor Roth IRAs ($6k each), and the HSA ($7k) (those are the limits for the tax year 2019), how much additional do you believe you might be able to contribute to investing annually?

You are in your mid 40s with only $305k invested ($90k your 401k, $90k her 401k, $125 taxable account).

In my opinion you will need to contribute more to retirement investing than the maximum annual limits of two 401ks, two backdoor Roth IRAs, and the HSA. Those maximums total $57k annually, or only 11% of income.

paiciparum wrote:Should I put money in College plan (any benefit with living in state with no income tax)?
In my opinion, no. I think it's a priority to get your retirement saving and investments on track.

paiciparum wrote:What about other Vanguard index funds? https://www.listenmoneymatters.com/best-vanguard-funds/

What account to open to invest after maximizing 401K HSA and back door Roth?
You already have a taxable brokerage account at Vanguard. In addition to making maximum annual contributions to the 401ks, IRAs and HSA contribute more to that Vanguard taxable account, and invest in very tax-efficient stock index funds. Examples include:
1) Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX) ER 0.04%; and
2) Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) ER 0.11%.

The REIT Index fund and bond index funds are not tax-efficient, and should not be held in a taxable account.

Hold the REIT fund and bond fund in a tax-advantaged account, preferably a tax-deferred account like a traditional 401k. Please see the wiki article "Tax-efficient Fund Placement".

A low expense REIT Index fund (Schwab U.S. REIT ETF, SCHH) and a low expense total bond market index fund (Schwab U.S. Aggregate Bond ETF, SCHZ) are both offered in her 401k.

Was there some other fund from that MoneyMatters article that you had an interest in using?
Thanks for the reply.

paiciparum wrote:
We have no loans.

We have a residential lot (planned to build a home but never happened and now we moved) ~ 125K which we need to sell and plan to buy a home in next 6 months.

~700k in bank
Is that $700k intended for a home purchase, or is some or all available for retirement investing?
--------- We will have ~750K in bank and hopefully can sell ~125K lot. We intend to buy ~1.4M home. We have emergency cash $100k. Wondering how much of this money should we pay towards the house other than 20% down payment and how much to invest.

A friend suggested to take 30 year mortgage and even with 4.25% interest rate, if we take 30 years to pay mortgage, we can invest that money instead of paying for house quickly and hopefully earn 5-6% which will be more than 4.25% mortgage interest rate. Is that good strategy as some like to pay off their homes quickly and some use that money to invest?


Asset allocation.
Do you have a desired asset allocation (stock/bond mix, and domestic/international stock mix) which you want to aim for?
---- No, but we would follow the advice from forum members.

paiciparum wrote:
Should I put money in College plan (any benefit with living in state with no income tax)?
In my opinion, no. I think it's a priority to get your retirement saving and investments on track.
----The reason I was asking for college plan is so that I can save some money for children's college education. I was told it grows tax free in college plan.
about

paiciparum wrote:
What about other Vanguard index funds? https://www.listenmoneymatters.com/best-vanguard-funds/
------ what about Target Retirement 2050 Fund (Investor Shares) – VFIFX and 500 Index Fund (Admiral Class) – VFIAX


What about being angel investor?
https://www.angelmd.co/en/

What about below investment?
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/cityv ... al-estate/

Thanks once again

User avatar
ruralavalon
Posts: 14700
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:29 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Post by ruralavalon » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:27 pm

After maximum contributions to the 401ks, IRAs and HSA, about how much more do you believe you may be able to contribute annually to investing?

Contributing the maximum to the 401ks, IRAs and HSA is a contribution rate of just 11%.

As mentioned before about the most important thing you can do at this point is to establish a high contribution rate. You are in your mid 40s, have just $180k in tax-deferred accounts, and only $305k in investments.

I suggest that you take a close look at your living expenses to determine where you might be more modest in your spending, to enable a higher contribution rate.

Here are two calculators you can use to help evaluate what savings rate you may need to reach particular retirement goals:
1) www.firecalc.com; and
2) www.i-orp.com.

palciparum wrote: ~700k in bank
ruralavalon wrote:Is that $700k intended for a home purchase, or is some or all available for retirement investing?
--------- We will have ~750K in bank and hopefully can sell ~125K lot. We intend to buy ~1.4M home. We have emergency cash $100k. Wondering how much of this money should we pay towards the house other than 20% down payment and how much to invest.

A friend suggested to take 30 year mortgage and even with 4.25% interest rate, if we take 30 years to pay mortgage, we can invest that money instead of paying for house quickly and hopefully earn 5-6% which will be more than 4.25% mortgage interest rate. Is that good strategy as some like to pay off their homes quickly and some use that money to invest?
That looks like potentially $975k in cash.

Taking 30 years to pay the house off puts you in your mid 70s, most people want to retire long before that age.

Do you need a $1.4 million house? I don't know if you are in a high cost of living area, or anything about your local housing market, so I can't answer that question for you.

I think you need to invest some of that potential $975k of cash, even if it means buying a more modest home.


paliciparum wrote: What about other Vanguard index funds? https://www.listenmoneymatters.com/best-vanguard-funds/
------ what about Target Retirement 2050 Fund (Investor Shares) – VFIFX and 500 Index Fund (Admiral Class) – VFIAX


What about being angel investor?
https://www.angelmd.co/en/

What about below investment?
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/cityv ... al-estate/
Vanguard 500 Index Fund Admiral Shares (VFIAX) just overlaps and duplicates part of (81% of) Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX). There is no purpose to using both.

A target date fund is intended to be used as an all-in-one single fund portfolio. Using a target date fund in addition to the other index funds just makes it harder to manage and keep track of your asset allocation.

I think for real estate investing its better to stick with a diversified REIT index fund, such as Schwab U.S. REIT ETF (SCHH) or Vanguard Real Estate Fund Admiral Shares (VGSLX).

I don't know anything about the angel investing syndicates you linked. But angel investing is generally high risk (something you don't need) and sometimes as a pre-qualification to participate requires large investable assets (which you do not have).
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

Ben Mathew
Posts: 476
Joined: Tue Mar 13, 2018 11:41 am
Location: Seattle
Contact:

Re: Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Post by Ben Mathew » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:27 pm

palciparum wrote:
Sun Feb 03, 2019 11:48 pm
We will have ~750K in bank and hopefully can sell ~125K lot. We intend to buy ~1.4M home. We have emergency cash $100k. Wondering how much of this money should we pay towards the house other than 20% down payment and how much to invest.

A friend suggested to take 30 year mortgage and even with 4.25% interest rate, if we take 30 years to pay mortgage, we can invest that money instead of paying for house quickly and hopefully earn 5-6% which will be more than 4.25% mortgage interest rate. Is that good strategy as some like to pay off their homes quickly and some use that money to invest?
Leveraging a stock portfolio with a home mortgage makes sense when it's done in your 30s and 40s. When you get closer to retirement, it's better to have a paid off house. Given that you are in your mid 40s, a 15 year mortgage will still get you paid off by age 60, so that might be okay. I would not recommend a 30 year mortgage. The 15 year will also have a significantly lower interest rate.

It's not useful to owns bond in your portfolio while still paying a mortgage. The interest rate you get on bonds will usually be lower than the interest on your mortgage. So it would be better to reduce your mortgage instead of having part of your portfolio invested in bonds. The caveat is that you still want to max out your tax-advantaged space every year. But it seems to me that, since you haven't accumulated a lot in tax-advantaged accounts thus far, you should be able to do so without any allocation to bonds. In other words, whatever you decide to put into bonds, put into a lower mortgage on the house. Whatever you want to put into stocks, goes into your portfolio.

Topic Author
palciparum
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:51 pm

Re: Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Post by palciparum » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:06 pm

ruralavalon wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:27 pm
After maximum contributions to the 401ks, IRAs and HSA, about how much more do you believe you may be able to contribute annually to investing?

Contributing the maximum to the 401ks, IRAs and HSA is a contribution rate of just 11%.

As mentioned before about the most important thing you can do at this point is to establish a high contribution rate. You are in your mid 40s, have just $180k in tax-deferred accounts, and only $305k in investments.

I suggest that you take a close look at your living expenses to determine where you might be more modest in your spending, to enable a higher contribution rate.

Here are two calculators you can use to help evaluate what savings rate you may need to reach particular retirement goals:
1) www.firecalc.com; and
2) www.i-orp.com.

palciparum wrote: ~700k in bank
ruralavalon wrote:Is that $700k intended for a home purchase, or is some or all available for retirement investing?
--------- We will have ~750K in bank and hopefully can sell ~125K lot. We intend to buy ~1.4M home. We have emergency cash $100k. Wondering how much of this money should we pay towards the house other than 20% down payment and how much to invest.

A friend suggested to take 30 year mortgage and even with 4.25% interest rate, if we take 30 years to pay mortgage, we can invest that money instead of paying for house quickly and hopefully earn 5-6% which will be more than 4.25% mortgage interest rate. Is that good strategy as some like to pay off their homes quickly and some use that money to invest?
That looks like potentially $975k in cash.

Taking 30 years to pay the house off puts you in your mid 70s, most people want to retire long before that age.

Do you need a $1.4 million house? I don't know if you are in a high cost of living area, or anything about your local housing market, so I can't answer that question for you.

I think you need to invest some of that potential $975k of cash, even if it means buying a more modest home.


paliciparum wrote: What about other Vanguard index funds? https://www.listenmoneymatters.com/best-vanguard-funds/
------ what about Target Retirement 2050 Fund (Investor Shares) – VFIFX and 500 Index Fund (Admiral Class) – VFIAX


What about being angel investor?
https://www.angelmd.co/en/

What about below investment?
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/cityv ... al-estate/
Vanguard 500 Index Fund Admiral Shares (VFIAX) just overlaps and duplicates part of (81% of) Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTSAX). There is no purpose to using both.

A target date fund is intended to be used as an all-in-one single fund portfolio. Using a target date fund in addition to the other index funds just makes it harder to manage and keep track of your asset allocation.

I think for real estate investing its better to stick with a diversified REIT index fund, such as Schwab U.S. REIT ETF (SCHH) or Vanguard Real Estate Fund Admiral Shares (VGSLX).

I don't know anything about the angel investing syndicates you linked. But angel investing is generally high risk (something you don't need) and sometimes as a pre-qualification to participate requires large investable assets (which you do not have).
Do you need a $1.4 million house? I don't know if you are in a high cost of living area, or anything about your local housing market, so I can't answer that question for you.

I think you need to invest some of that potential $975k of cash, even if it means buying a more modest home.
----------- The place I moved to which is good school district has modest homes starting around 1.1M. Our plan would be to use one salary to pay off home loan. Use other salary for monthly expense and save part of it.
In next few years if we can make even 45K more as we progress in our new jobs, we can use that for extra investment other than 401K/Roth IRA/HSA.


------How much of $975K cash should I invest as I will need ~375K for down payment/closing cost?

---What percentage of our combined salary should be invested - including both pre and post tax? What be a good %age of gross income? We don't plan to retire early but better save and invest.

------ Investment, should it be to grow capital or even have passive income like dividend stocks?

------ Should I invest HSA or keep it like savings account?

Thank You

User avatar
ruralavalon
Posts: 14700
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:29 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Post by ruralavalon » Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:50 am

I agree with Ben Mathew that it's better to have your mortgage paid off before retirement, so advise against a 30 year mortgage.


paliciparum wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:Do you need a $1.4 million house? I don't know if you are in a high cost of living area, or anything about your local housing market, so I can't answer that question for you.

I think you need to invest some of that potential $975k of cash, even if it means buying a more modest home.
----------- The place I moved to which is good school district has modest homes starting around 1.1M. Our plan would be to use one salary to pay off home loan. Use other salary for monthly expense and save part of it.
In next few years if we can make even 45K more as we progress in our new jobs, we can use that for extra investment other than 401K/Roth IRA/HSA.


------How much of $975K cash should I invest as I will need ~375K for down payment/closing cost?
About how much would it take to cover 3-6 months of your basic living expenses?

In addition to the money for a home downpayment/closing costs, keep 3-6 months worth of basic living expenses as an emergency fund. I suggest investing the remainder.

paliciparum wrote:---What percentage of our combined salary should be invested - including both pre and post tax? What be a good %age of gross income? We don't plan to retire early but better save and invest.
There are a lot of important variables I don't know. I always say keep your savings rate as high as you can comfortably sustain.

A standard answer for a new investor is 15% of gross, but you are in your mid 40s with relatively little in investments so far.

Will either or both of you be eligible for a significant pension? How much do you spend per year on living expenses including housing and insurance?

Aim to have 25 times your annual living expenses (net of Social Security and any pension) in investments by retirement age. Please the wiki article
"Safe Withdrawal Rates".

You can use the calculators which I linked earlier to estimate the amount of annual contributions that you might need to meet that goal --
1) www.firecalc.com,
2) www.i-orp.com.

paliciparum wrote:------ Investment, should it be to grow capital or even have passive income like dividend stocks?
Invest for total return, which is a combination of increase in share price and dividends.

Don't focus on high dividends alone. Limiting your investments to high dividend stocks is less diversified, since it omits a large part of the stock market.

A dollar from capital appreciation spends just like a dollar from dividends.

paliciparum wrote:------ Should I invest HSA or keep it like savings account?
It's probably better to invest the HSA. What funds are offered in the HSA? Please give fund names, tickers and expense ratios.

. . . . . .

Do you have any information yet on the funds offered in your 401k? If so, then please give fund names, tickers and expense ratios.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

Topic Author
palciparum
Posts: 27
Joined: Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:51 pm

Re: Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Post by palciparum » Sun Feb 10, 2019 11:07 am

ruralavalon wrote:
Tue Feb 05, 2019 10:50 am
I agree with Ben Mathew that it's better to have your mortgage paid off before retirement, so advise against a 30 year mortgage.


paliciparum wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:Do you need a $1.4 million house? I don't know if you are in a high cost of living area, or anything about your local housing market, so I can't answer that question for you.

I think you need to invest some of that potential $975k of cash, even if it means buying a more modest home.
----------- The place I moved to which is good school district has modest homes starting around 1.1M. Our plan would be to use one salary to pay off home loan. Use other salary for monthly expense and save part of it.
In next few years if we can make even 45K more as we progress in our new jobs, we can use that for extra investment other than 401K/Roth IRA/HSA.


------How much of $975K cash should I invest as I will need ~375K for down payment/closing cost?
About how much would it take to cover 3-6 months of your basic living expenses?

In addition to the money for a home downpayment/closing costs, keep 3-6 months worth of basic living expenses as an emergency fund. I suggest investing the remainder.

paliciparum wrote:---What percentage of our combined salary should be invested - including both pre and post tax? What be a good %age of gross income? We don't plan to retire early but better save and invest.
There are a lot of important variables I don't know. I always say keep your savings rate as high as you can comfortably sustain.

A standard answer for a new investor is 15% of gross, but you are in your mid 40s with relatively little in investments so far.

Will either or both of you be eligible for a significant pension? How much do you spend per year on living expenses including housing and insurance?

Aim to have 25 times your annual living expenses (net of Social Security and any pension) in investments by retirement age. Please the wiki article
"Safe Withdrawal Rates".

You can use the calculators which I linked earlier to estimate the amount of annual contributions that you might need to meet that goal --
1) www.firecalc.com,
2) www.i-orp.com.

paliciparum wrote:------ Investment, should it be to grow capital or even have passive income like dividend stocks?
Invest for total return, which is a combination of increase in share price and dividends.

Don't focus on high dividends alone. Limiting your investments to high dividend stocks is less diversified, since it omits a large part of the stock market.

A dollar from capital appreciation spends just like a dollar from dividends.

paliciparum wrote:------ Should I invest HSA or keep it like savings account?
It's probably better to invest the HSA. What funds are offered in the HSA? Please give fund names, tickers and expense ratios.

. . . . . .

Do you have any information yet on the funds offered in your 401k? If so, then please give fund names, tickers and expense ratios.
Sorry it took me some time to get this information. I have put Net expense ratio next to them. Some funds have slightly different gross expense ratio.
I don't know what does N/A mean in this case? Does it mean no expense ratio?

Stable Value
Wells Fargo Stable Return Fund (Gallard) 0.81%
FTSE Treasury Bill 3Mon N/A

Intermediate Term Bond
JP Morgan Core Plus Bond Fund 0.40%
BBgBarc US Agg Bond N/A

High Yield Bond
PGIM High Yield Fubd 0.55%
ICE BofAML US High Yield TR N/A

Asset Allocation/Lifestyle
MFS Total Return Fund 0.73%
Ripper Balanced Index N/A
S&P 500 Index N/A


Assest Allocation/Lifecycle
American funds 2010 Target Date Retirement Fund 0.68%
American funds 2015 Target Date Retirement Fund 0.67%
American funds 2020 Target Date Retirement Fund 0.69%
American funds 2025 Target Date Retirement Fund 0.71%
American funds 2030 Target Date Retirement Fund 0.73%
American funds 2035 Target Date Retirement Fund 0.74%
American funds 2040 Target Date Retirement Fund 0.75%
American funds 2045 Target Date Retirement Fund 0.76%
American funds 2050 Target Date Retirement Fund 0.76%
American funds 2055 Target Date Retirement Fund 0.76%
American funds 2060 Target Date Retirement Fund 0.83%

S&P Target Date 2010 TR N/A
S&P Target Date 2015 TR N/A
S&P Target Date 2020 TR N/A
S&P Target Date 2025 TR N/A
S&P Target Date 2030 TR N/A
S&P Target Date 2035 TR N/A
S&P Target Date 2040 TR N/A
S&P Target Date 2045 TR N/A
S&P Target Date 2050 TR N/A
S&P Target Date 2055 TR N/A
S&P Target Date 2060+ TR N/A


Large Cap Value
American Beacon Bridgeway Large Cap Value Fund 0.72%
Russell 1000A Value Index N/A


Large Cap Core
BlackRock iShares S&P 500 Index Fund 0.04%
Columbia Disciplined Core Fund 0.71%
S&P 500A index N/A

Large Cap Growth
Vanguard Growth Index Fund 0.05%
CRSP US Large Cap Growth TR N/A

Mid Cap Core
Columbia Mid Cap Index Fund 0.45%
S&P MidCap 400 N/A

Mid Cap Growth
Victory Munder Mid-cap Core Growth Fund (MGOYX) 1.01%
Russell Mid Cap Idx N/A

Small Cap Value
Vanguard Small Cap Value Index Fund 0.07%
Russell 2000A Value Index N/A

Small Cap Core
JP Morgan Small Cap Equity Fund 0.8%
Russell 2000A Idx N/A

Small Cap Growth
Wells Fargo Small Company Growth Fund 0.95%
Russell 2000A Growth Index N/A

Intl/Global Large Value
MFS International Value Fund 0.98%
MSCI EAFE Value NR N/A

Intl/Global Large Growth
American Funds EuroPacific Growth Fund 0.49%
MSCI AC World ex-USA N/A

Emerging Market Equity
Goldman Sachs Emerging Markets Equity Insights Fund 1.09%
MSCI Emerging Markets Idx N/A

REITs
Invesco Real Estate Fund 0.89%
S&P 500A Index N/A


Thank You

User avatar
ruralavalon
Posts: 14700
Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 10:29 am
Location: Illinois

Re: Need Financial advice and 401 K advice

Post by ruralavalon » Sun Feb 10, 2019 1:03 pm

paliciparum wrote:
ruralavalon wrote:Do you have any information yet on the funds offered in your 401k? If so, then please give fund names, tickers and expense ratios.
Sorry it took me some time to get this information. I have put Net expense ratio next to them. Some funds have slightly different gross expense ratio.
I don't know what does N/A mean in this case? Does it mean no expense ratio? [emphasis added].

Stable Value
Wells Fargo Stable Return Fund (Gallard) 0.81%
FTSE Treasury Bill 3Mon N/A

Intermediate Term Bond
JP Morgan Core Plus Bond Fund 0.40%
BBgBarc US Agg Bond N/A
Under the fund name the next line is just the name of the index used as a benchmark by the fund. An index does not have an expense ratio, so "NA" means "not applicable".

In your 401k in my opinion the funds to consider using include:
2) BlackRock iShares S&P 500 Index Fund (BSPPX???) ER 0.04%;
2) American Funds EuroPacific Growth Fund R6 (both developed and emerging markets) (RERGX) ER 0.49% and
3) JPMorgan Core Plus Bond Fund (JCPUX???) ER 0.40%

. . . . .

Do you have an estimate as to how much of the $700k savings you might want to add to investing?

Do you have an estimate as to how much additional you might contribute annually to investing, in addition to maxing the tax-advantaged accounts.

Do you have information on what funds will be available in the HSA?
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

Post Reply