Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

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Badger1754
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Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by Badger1754 »

Has anyone had experience with Vanguard PRIMECAP and/or Capital Opportunity funds?

As far as I can tell.. they appear to be Vanguard-branded non-index actively managed funds :shock:

What is the catch here? Other than past performance doesn't necessarily equate to future gains.
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WoodSpinner
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by WoodSpinner »

Prime cap is CLOSED to new investors.

https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... view/VPMCX
DSInvestor
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by DSInvestor »

Both very tax inefficient. Do not hold in taxable accounts.
Last edited by DSInvestor on Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by TomatoTomahto »

We have done well with PRIMECAP and continue to add funds as allowed ($25k per account type per person per year).
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
bltn
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by bltn »

Badger1754 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 pm Has anyone had experience with Vanguard PRIMECAP and/or Capital Opportunity funds?

As far as I can tell.. they appear to be Vanguard-branded non-index actively managed funds :shock:

What is the catch here? Other than past performance doesn't necessarily equate to future gains.
We have some Primecap in a children s trust. It has beaten the broad market index funds by 1-3% per year over the last 10 years. But it is closed to new investors and a few years ago there was a limit as to how much current investors could add to their holdings each year.
I had Vanguard give me an evaluation of my personal holdings with them 2 years ago. Their advisor recommended I replace my few actively managed stock funds with index funds. I doubt there was anything unusual about my situation.
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BoglePaul
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by BoglePaul »

The three Vanguard PRIMECAP funds (PRIMECAP, PRIMECAP Core, and Capital Opportunity) are my favorite funds (they choose stocks I like and avoid stocks like facbook,cr-apple, twitter, etc). Add one or two PRIMECAPs, plus VWIUX and that is primarily what I invest in (I purchased before they closed them). Not everyone believes in the Index Fund miracle.

Correct, historical performance does not predict future returns.
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BoglePaul
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by BoglePaul »

bltn wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:07 pm
Badger1754 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 pm Has anyone had experience with Vanguard PRIMECAP and/or Capital Opportunity funds?

As far as I can tell.. they appear to be Vanguard-branded non-index actively managed funds :shock:

What is the catch here? Other than past performance doesn't necessarily equate to future gains.
We have some Primecap in a children s trust. It has beaten the broad market index funds by 1-3% per year over the last 10 years. But it is closed to new investors and a few years ago there was a limit as to how much current investors could add to their holdings each year.
I had Vanguard give me an evaluation of my personal holdings with them 2 years ago. Their advisor recommended I replace my few actively managed stock funds with index funds. I doubt there was anything unusual about my situation.
I had the same experience. A Vanguard advisor recommend I replace my PRIMECAP funds with Index funds. No thanks.
02nz
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by 02nz »

As others noted, both are closed to new investors, unless you have Flagship (I know this is the case for PRIMECAP, not sure about Flagship access for Capital Opportunity). Some also have access through their 401k's.

PRIMECAP also runs its own family of funds, called Odyssey. There are three, each a fairly close match for the three Vanguard funds advised by PRIMECAP:

Vanguard PRIMECAP Fund - Odyssey Growth (POGRX)
Vanguard PRIMECAP Core Fund - Odyssey Stock (POSKX)
Vanguard Capital Opportunity - Odyssey Aggressive Growth (POAGX)

POGRX and POSKX are open to new investors.
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RickBoglehead
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by RickBoglehead »

Love Primecap. Irrelevant tax inefficiency. Performance has beaten everything else I hold.

$25k joint, $25k IRA and spouse's IRA, $25k Rollover IRA and spouse's, $25k ROTH IRA and Spouse's, $25k individual and wife's individual which then get moved to joint. 9 x $25k possible.

Not available in Vanguard Individual 401k. :annoyed
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by Kenkat »

I’ve held Primecap since 1998. Performance has been excellent. It is low cost and low turnover, although not quite to index fund levels. It tends to hold smaller stocks on average than for example an S&P 500 fund and is probably better compared to a mid-cap fund. It seems to move around a bit between style and growth depending on where the management team thinks there is value. Best held in tax-deferred accounts.

I think it makes a pretty good case that low cost, low turnover active can work but whether or not it is appropriate for someone is a personal choice with no obvious answer in my opinion.
DrGoogle2017
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

I’ve have Primecap for years with Vanguard in taxable and non taxable. But I did add Vanguard Cap Opportunity in the last 10 years when I research for biotech boom. My kids also have them through link to my account. So far so good, very pleased with them. I think they do beat the index.
Last edited by DrGoogle2017 on Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by AlphaLess »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:58 pm We have done well with PRIMECAP and continue to add funds as allowed ($25k per account type per person per year).
Taxable or IRA / ROTH?
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by AlphaLess »

RickBoglehead wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:24 pm Love Primecap. Irrelevant tax inefficiency. Performance has beaten everything else I hold.

$25k joint, $25k IRA and spouse's IRA, $25k Rollover IRA and spouse's, $25k ROTH IRA and Spouse's, $25k individual and wife's individual which then get moved to joint. 9 x $25k possible.

Not available in Vanguard Individual 401k. :annoyed
Are you saying that Vanguard allows one to invest $25K per year into each type of account (assuming you are a Flagship customer)?
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by TomatoTomahto »

AlphaLess wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:07 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:58 pm We have done well with PRIMECAP and continue to add funds as allowed ($25k per account type per person per year).
Taxable or IRA / ROTH?
We have 2 taxable accounts and 3 IRA accounts, so that’s $125k/year. One of our kids also has an account that apparently was grandfathered in.

ETA: one of us has a traditional IRA and a rollover IRA.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
DrGoogle2017
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

You can actually have more than 4 accounts with Vanguard Primecap, rollover IRA, brokerage rollover IRA, Roth IRA, brokerage Roth IRA, taxable brokerage account.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by ResearchMed »

DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:21 pm You can actually have more than 4 accounts with Vanguard Primecap, rollover IRA, brokerage rollover IRA, Roth IRA, brokerage Roth IRA, taxable brokerage account.
It's also available in some 403b type accounts (ours, for existence).

Also, PRIMECAP will allow someone to purchase a *closed* fund in a different account IF they already own it in one account.
So if one has, say, POAGX in a 403b, one can arrange to get a new position in POAGX in an IRA or taxable account. (The Vanguard or Schwab/etc., rep may not be familiar with this, but find a supervisor, etc.).

This is helpful, because one cannot "transfer in kind" out of a 403b, the way one can from an IRA, for example.

I don't know if this covers the "Vanguard flavors" of PRIMECAP funds such as Cap Opp, etc.

RM
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DrGoogle2017
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

ResearchMed wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:36 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:21 pm You can actually have more than 4 accounts with Vanguard Primecap, rollover IRA, brokerage rollover IRA, Roth IRA, brokerage Roth IRA, taxable brokerage account.
It's also available in some 403b type accounts (ours, for existence).

Also, PRIMECAP will allow someone to purchase a *closed* fund in a different account IF they already own it in one account.
So if one has, say, POAGX in a 403b, one can arrange to get a new position in POAGX in an IRA or taxable account. (The Vanguard or Schwab/etc., rep may not be familiar with this, but find a supervisor, etc.).

This is helpful, because one cannot "transfer in kind" out of a 403b, the way one can from an IRA, for example.

I don't know if this covers the "Vanguard flavors" of PRIMECAP funds such as Cap Opp, etc.

RM
I think it works the same for those two funds. Exception is Vanguard Primecap Core, I noticed it has no caps.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by ResearchMed »

DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:38 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:36 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:21 pm You can actually have more than 4 accounts with Vanguard Primecap, rollover IRA, brokerage rollover IRA, Roth IRA, brokerage Roth IRA, taxable brokerage account.
It's also available in some 403b type accounts (ours, for existence).

Also, PRIMECAP will allow someone to purchase a *closed* fund in a different account IF they already own it in one account.
So if one has, say, POAGX in a 403b, one can arrange to get a new position in POAGX in an IRA or taxable account. (The Vanguard or Schwab/etc., rep may not be familiar with this, but find a supervisor, etc.).

This is helpful, because one cannot "transfer in kind" out of a 403b, the way one can from an IRA, for example.

I don't know if this covers the "Vanguard flavors" of PRIMECAP funds such as Cap Opp, etc.

RM
I think it works the same for those two funds. Exception is Vanguard Primecap Core, I noticed it has no caps.
"No caps"?

I'm referring to getting a new holding in a different account that doesn't already have any of a closed <PRIMECAP fund of interest>.
This isn't related to any caps.

One problem we would have faced, for example, is that, having it in a 403b, if we wanted to roll that to an IRA, we would not be able to "transfer in kind", so we can't "move" any closed funds, unless we already own them in an IRA. Then we could "just buy more", to the total desired.

We did that with POAGX, but haven't tried (yet) to see if it also works with, say, Cap Opp.

RM
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DrGoogle2017
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

ResearchMed wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:43 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:38 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:36 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:21 pm You can actually have more than 4 accounts with Vanguard Primecap, rollover IRA, brokerage rollover IRA, Roth IRA, brokerage Roth IRA, taxable brokerage account.
It's also available in some 403b type accounts (ours, for existence).

Also, PRIMECAP will allow someone to purchase a *closed* fund in a different account IF they already own it in one account.
So if one has, say, POAGX in a 403b, one can arrange to get a new position in POAGX in an IRA or taxable account. (The Vanguard or Schwab/etc., rep may not be familiar with this, but find a supervisor, etc.).

This is helpful, because one cannot "transfer in kind" out of a 403b, the way one can from an IRA, for example.

I don't know if this covers the "Vanguard flavors" of PRIMECAP funds such as Cap Opp, etc.

RM
I think it works the same for those two funds. Exception is Vanguard Primecap Core, I noticed it has no caps.
"No caps"?

I'm referring to getting a new holding in a different account that doesn't already have any of a closed <PRIMECAP fund of interest>.
This isn't related to any caps.

One problem we would have faced, for example, is that, having it in a 403b, if we wanted to roll that to an IRA, we would not be able to "transfer in kind", so we can't "move" any closed funds, unless we already own them in an IRA. Then we could "just buy more", to the total desired.

We did that with POAGX, but haven't tried (yet) to see if it also works with, say, Cap Opp.

RM
I’m referring to the $25k cap per year.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by 02nz »

ResearchMed wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:43 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:38 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:36 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:21 pm You can actually have more than 4 accounts with Vanguard Primecap, rollover IRA, brokerage rollover IRA, Roth IRA, brokerage Roth IRA, taxable brokerage account.
It's also available in some 403b type accounts (ours, for existence).

Also, PRIMECAP will allow someone to purchase a *closed* fund in a different account IF they already own it in one account.
So if one has, say, POAGX in a 403b, one can arrange to get a new position in POAGX in an IRA or taxable account. (The Vanguard or Schwab/etc., rep may not be familiar with this, but find a supervisor, etc.).

This is helpful, because one cannot "transfer in kind" out of a 403b, the way one can from an IRA, for example.

I don't know if this covers the "Vanguard flavors" of PRIMECAP funds such as Cap Opp, etc.

RM
I think it works the same for those two funds. Exception is Vanguard Primecap Core, I noticed it has no caps.
"No caps"?

I'm referring to getting a new holding in a different account that doesn't already have any of a closed <PRIMECAP fund of interest>.
This isn't related to any caps.

One problem we would have faced, for example, is that, having it in a 403b, if we wanted to roll that to an IRA, we would not be able to "transfer in kind", so we can't "move" any closed funds, unless we already own them in an IRA. Then we could "just buy more", to the total desired.

We did that with POAGX, but haven't tried (yet) to see if it also works with, say, Cap Opp.

RM
I asked this question when I held PRIMECAP Core (VPCCX). Unlike with the Odyssey funds, Vanguard wouldn't let me buy VPCCX in another account even though I held it in my Roth IRA.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

You can’t buy Odyssey through Vanguard. I tried but it didn’t work, maybe I’m missing something.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by AlphaLess »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:11 pm
AlphaLess wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:07 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:58 pm We have done well with PRIMECAP and continue to add funds as allowed ($25k per account type per person per year).
Taxable or IRA / ROTH?
We have 2 taxable accounts and 3 IRA accounts, so that’s $125k/year. One of our kids also has an account that apparently was grandfathered in.

ETA: one of us has a traditional IRA and a rollover IRA.
So they let you put at $25K clip per account type?
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by ResearchMed »

DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:20 pm You can’t buy Odyssey through Vanguard. I tried but it didn’t work, maybe I’m missing something.
We have no problem. It's an online transaction through the brokerage window in a 403b, and also in the brokerage window in an IRA.
We've purchased three different PRIMECAP funds (not the "Vanguard versions").
No different from buying any other mutual fund.

RM
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

ResearchMed wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:29 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:20 pm You can’t buy Odyssey through Vanguard. I tried but it didn’t work, maybe I’m missing something.
We have no problem. It's an online transaction through the brokerage window in a 403b, and also in the brokerage window in an IRA.
We've purchased three different PRIMECAP funds (not the "Vanguard versions").
No different from buying any other mutual fund.

RM
If you buy it as a brokerage, that means other people can buy it too, like a stock right. I did as buying mutual fund, and Odyssey didn’t show up. That’s probably my misunderstanding.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by ResearchMed »

DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:31 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:29 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:20 pm You can’t buy Odyssey through Vanguard. I tried but it didn’t work, maybe I’m missing something.
We have no problem. It's an online transaction through the brokerage window in a 403b, and also in the brokerage window in an IRA.
We've purchased three different PRIMECAP funds (not the "Vanguard versions").
No different from buying any other mutual fund.

RM
If you buy it as a brokerage, that means other people can buy it too, like a stock right. I did as buying mutual fund, and Odyssey didn’t show up. That’s probably my misunderstanding.
I'm not sure what you mean, because in our 403b, we cannot purchase "stocks" or ETF's, just mutual funds.

But yes, in the IRA, we could purchase "anything" (well, almost).

Are you entering the symbol (e.g., POAGX, although that one is closed)?
The fund family name is PRIMECAP, not Odyssey, in case that helps.

Given that we can purchase in the IRA, it can't be something peculiar to our 403b.

RM
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by TomatoTomahto »

AlphaLess wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:28 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:11 pm
AlphaLess wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:07 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:58 pm We have done well with PRIMECAP and continue to add funds as allowed ($25k per account type per person per year).
Taxable or IRA / ROTH?
We have 2 taxable accounts and 3 IRA accounts, so that’s $125k/year. One of our kids also has an account that apparently was grandfathered in.
ETA: one of us has a traditional IRA and a rollover IRA.
So they let you put at $25K clip per account type?
Yes. So, as a family (mother, father, son) we have put in $150k/year at once. I’m not sure if son is still doing this. We have father: taxable, rollover IRA, tIRA. Mother: rIRA and taxable. Son: taxable. Now that you mention it, I think son has taxable and rIRA, so $25k more, but as he’s launched, I no longer track what he does.
Okay, I get it; I won't be political or controversial. The Earth is flat.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

ResearchMed wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:42 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:31 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:29 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:20 pm You can’t buy Odyssey through Vanguard. I tried but it didn’t work, maybe I’m missing something.
We have no problem. It's an online transaction through the brokerage window in a 403b, and also in the brokerage window in an IRA.
We've purchased three different PRIMECAP funds (not the "Vanguard versions").
No different from buying any other mutual fund.

RM
If you buy it as a brokerage, that means other people can buy it too, like a stock right. I did as buying mutual fund, and Odyssey didn’t show up. That’s probably my misunderstanding.
I'm not sure what you mean, because in our 403b, we cannot purchase "stocks" or ETF's, just mutual funds.

But yes, in the IRA, we could purchase "anything" (well, almost).

Are you entering the symbol (e.g., POAGX, although that one is closed)?
The fund family name is PRIMECAP, not Odyssey, in case that helps.

Given that we can purchase in the IRA, it can't be something peculiar to our 403b.

RM
I meant you have to enter a ticker symbol like buying a stock. When I buy mutual funds under Vanguard, only three funds under PRIMECAP family pop up, PRIMECAP, PRIMECAP Core, and Capital Opportunity.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by jimmyq »

I have a sizeable position in PRIMECAP in a regular (not tax deferred account). Due to the tax inefficiency, it was not a great decision to put this in a taxable account, but then again it hasn't been too bad as the fund has done very well, even after paying the taxes. It generates a sizeable capital gain every year that is a pain to deal with (greater than 6% this year), so I've made the decision to slowly shift money out of Primecap and into a standard SP 500 fund. But that also has its own problems as I generate even more capital gains by selling PrimeCap. Luckily, this is a first world problem that I am happy to deal with.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by Corgitodd »

How does it compare to Growth Index?
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by celia »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:44 pm Yes. So, as a family (mother, father, son) we have put in $150k/year at once. I’m not sure if son is still doing this. We have father: taxable, rollover IRA, tIRA. Mother: rIRA and taxable. Son: taxable. Now that you mention it, I think son has taxable and rIRA, so $25k more, but as he’s launched, I no longer track what he does.
We also have them in his trust, her trust, and joint trust. I was told the trusts go by the primary SSN listed on the account and all the accounts with the same SSN are limited to $25K of each fund each year. But lo and behold, last year I was buying enough to max out and the joint trust was able to buy twice as much because there were co-trustees on the account (2 SSNs). So we bought more than 25K of one of the funds last year in the joint trust (all in one shot).

Then we gifted shares to each of our kids! (At least our kids think shares of an investment are a "cool" Christmas present.)

However, Capital Opportunity is only in my Roth. When the fund is open, there is a minimum $50K purchase. I am willing to "sacrifice" giving up some Roth space so that more accounts can own it. But it looks like you would have to transfer $50K to move it to taxable.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by CRTR »

02nz wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:18 pm As others noted, both are closed to new investors, unless you have Flagship (I know this is the case for PRIMECAP, not sure about Flagship access for Capital Opportunity). Some also have access through their 401k's.

PRIMECAP also runs its own family of funds, called Odyssey. There are three, each a fairly close match for the three Vanguard funds advised by PRIMECAP:

Vanguard PRIMECAP Fund - Odyssey Growth (POGRX)
Vanguard PRIMECAP Core Fund - Odyssey Stock (POSKX)
Vanguard Capital Opportunity - Odyssey Aggressive Growth (POAGX)

POGRX and POSKX are open to new investors.
My ex owned Odyssey Aggressive Growth for about 10 years. She sold a couple years ago. That fund tests your resolve. When she sold it, the fund held over 50% small caps!! I guess you can't argue with the performance though. Makes for quite a ride given the fund typically had only 120-150 holdings as I recall.
Last edited by CRTR on Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
02nz
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by 02nz »

CRTR wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:14 pm My ex owned Odyssey Aggressive Growth for about 10 years. She sold a couple years ago. That fund tests your resolve. When she sold it, the fund held over 50% small caps!! I guess you can't argue with the performance though. Makes for quite a ride given the fund usually has only 120-150 holdings.
I take Morningstar's stuff with a grain of salt, but their blurb about POAGX is pretty on the money: "In a class of its own, but not for the faint of heart." I'm glad I bought it years ago. Have gone all-index for my portfolio except for this one fund.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by RickBoglehead »

TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:44 pm
AlphaLess wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:28 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:11 pm
AlphaLess wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:07 pm
TomatoTomahto wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:58 pm We have done well with PRIMECAP and continue to add funds as allowed ($25k per account type per person per year).
Taxable or IRA / ROTH?
We have 2 taxable accounts and 3 IRA accounts, so that’s $125k/year. One of our kids also has an account that apparently was grandfathered in.
ETA: one of us has a traditional IRA and a rollover IRA.
So they let you put at $25K clip per account type?
Yes. So, as a family (mother, father, son) we have put in $150k/year at once. I’m not sure if son is still doing this. We have father: taxable, rollover IRA, tIRA. Mother: rIRA and taxable. Son: taxable. Now that you mention it, I think son has taxable and rIRA, so $25k more, but as he’s launched, I no longer track what he does.
You missed husband and wife joint.
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celia
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by celia »

Corgitodd wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:19 pm How does it compare to Growth Index?
Corgittodd, Did you see this post above?
02nz wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 3:18 pm PRIMECAP also runs its own family of funds, called Odyssey. There are three, each a fairly close match for the three Vanguard funds advised by PRIMECAP:

Vanguard PRIMECAP Fund - Odyssey Growth (POGRX)
Vanguard PRIMECAP Core Fund - Odyssey Stock (POSKX)
Vanguard Capital Opportunity - Odyssey Aggressive Growth (POAGX)

POGRX and POSKX are open to new investors.
Vanguard subcontracts out the management of some of the actively managed funds to third parties. In regard to the funds we are discussing here, we are discussing funds that are CLOSED to new investors, are actively managed, and in this thread, are managed by PrimeCap Odyssey Funds (Primecap Management Company).

Growth Index Admiral is none of those things. This fund has Admiral shares that can be purchased today for a $3,000 minimum. See the link in this paragraph for an overview of this fund.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by Corgitodd »

Good to know, thanks
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by OregonDucksFan »

I have Primecap Core for 10+ years. It's done very well for me for 10+ years. It's very tax efficient, 6.6% in capital gains distributions in 2018, and the same tax inefficiency is probably true for its sibling funds at Vanguard: Primecap and Capital Opportunity.

I performed an analysis at one time that revealed about 70% assets are the same for Capital Opportunity and Primecap Core, and suscept similar overlap among all 3 funds managed by Primecap at Vanguard. I don't see any reason to own more than one of the 3 funds unless you're doing tax loss harvesting or some reason.

Finally, I took the opportunity to harvest tax loss and offset by exchanging Primecap Core with gains to Tax Managed Capital Appreciation and then to Total Stock Market Index in my taxable account, and exchanged "half" the amount in roth IRA from total stock market Index to Capital Opportunity. I did the two-step in taxable account to avoid wash sale. I did the "half" exchange (meaning for every $100 exchanged out of Primecap Core in taxable account, I exchanged $50 into Capital Opportunity in Roth IRA) to reduce manager risks because two of the three original managers responsible for the long-term returns are no longer managing the money.

You can get into these funds if you're a Flagship client and the annual limit is $25k for each fund. I don't know if that amount is combined across accounts or not.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by OldSport »

DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:03 pm I’ve have Primecap for years with Vanguard in taxable and non taxable. But I did add Vanguard Cap Opportunity in the last 10 years when I research for biotech boom. My kids also have them through link to my account. So far so good, very pleased with them. I think they do beat the index.
How do your kids link to your account? My dad is VG Flagship. I'd really like to invest in PrimeCap.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by OldSport »

DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:20 pm You can’t buy Odyssey through Vanguard. I tried but it didn’t work, maybe I’m missing something.
Are the Odyssey equivalents as good as the VG Primecaps? Can you buy at Fidelity?
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by RickBoglehead »

OldSport wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:15 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:03 pm I’ve have Primecap for years with Vanguard in taxable and non taxable. But I did add Vanguard Cap Opportunity in the last 10 years when I research for biotech boom. My kids also have them through link to my account. So far so good, very pleased with them. I think they do beat the index.
How do your kids link to your account? My dad is VG Flagship. I'd really like to invest in PrimeCap.
Have your father give your names to his rep. You will be given Flagship status.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by bei22000 »

Badger1754 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 pm Has anyone had experience with Vanguard PRIMECAP and/or Capital Opportunity funds?

As far as I can tell.. they appear to be Vanguard-branded non-index actively managed funds :shock:

What is the catch here? Other than past performance doesn't necessarily equate to future gains.
They are great funds. However, they both are closed to individual investors? I am wondering if I can buy some funds that similar to them with Vanguard?
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by A440 »

I held Primecap in my Roth IRA for at least two decades or more. It performed very well. I sold it and reinvested the proceeds when I moved all my funds to the three-portfolio model. No regrets.
I don't know what the future holds, but I know who holds my future.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by RickBoglehead »

OldSport wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:18 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:20 pm You can’t buy Odyssey through Vanguard. I tried but it didn’t work, maybe I’m missing something.
Are the Odyssey equivalents as good as the VG Primecaps? Can you buy at Fidelity?
You can pull up all these funds easily and compare the returns, expense ratios, etc. Vanguard Primecap Admiral has the lowest expense ratio, and beats the 1, 3, 5, and 10 year returns for all the funds listed, except for the ten year return on Odyssey Growth, in my comparison of the 6 funds listed. I didn't pull up more info.

I'm in the original Vanguard Primecap Admiral, and it beats Primecap Core handily.
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Corgitodd
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by Corgitodd »

bei22000 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:47 am
Badger1754 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 pm Has anyone had experience with Vanguard PRIMECAP and/or Capital Opportunity funds?

As far as I can tell.. they appear to be Vanguard-branded non-index actively managed funds :shock:

What is the catch here? Other than past performance doesn't necessarily equate to future gains.
They are great funds. However, they both are closed to individual investors? I am wondering if I can buy some funds that similar to them with Vanguard?
Thats why I asked how they compared to Index Growth. I think Primecap has some small cap stocks whereas Growth Index is all large cap.
02nz
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by 02nz »

bei22000 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:47 am
Badger1754 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:46 pm Has anyone had experience with Vanguard PRIMECAP and/or Capital Opportunity funds?

As far as I can tell.. they appear to be Vanguard-branded non-index actively managed funds :shock:

What is the catch here? Other than past performance doesn't necessarily equate to future gains.
They are great funds. However, they both are closed to individual investors? I am wondering if I can buy some funds that similar to them with Vanguard?
The two PRIMECAP Odyssey funds that are open (POGRX and POSKX) can be purchased through Vanguard or almost any other brokerage that sells mutual funds.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by 02nz »

OldSport wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:18 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:20 pm You can’t buy Odyssey through Vanguard. I tried but it didn’t work, maybe I’m missing something.
Are the Odyssey equivalents as good as the VG Primecaps? Can you buy at Fidelity?
You should be able to buy at Fidelity, but probably with a fee (I think it was $20/purchase at Vanguard).
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

OldSport wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:15 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:03 pm I’ve have Primecap for years with Vanguard in taxable and non taxable. But I did add Vanguard Cap Opportunity in the last 10 years when I research for biotech boom. My kids also have them through link to my account. So far so good, very pleased with them. I think they do beat the index.
How do your kids link to your account? My dad is VG Flagship. I'd really like to invest in PrimeCap.
I opened her account when she was a minor, so the minor account still linked to mine. I’ve yet to file paper work to move it over to her account. Plus she still gets free trades through me, so that’s why I’m not too eager. However I noticed, her SEP account doesn’t link to mine but she could also buy PRIMECAP there too. I don’t know why. Maybe somebody can explain it.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

OldSport wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:18 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:20 pm You can’t buy Odyssey through Vanguard. I tried but it didn’t work, maybe I’m missing something.
Are the Odyssey equivalents as good as the VG Primecaps? Can you buy at Fidelity?
I don’t know if it’s equivalent, but they don’t show up as Vanguard mutual funds, I would just try to put the ticker symbol in and see if you can do a buy. Just do it befor you hit confirm or submit.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by ResearchMed »

DrGoogle2017 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:08 pm
OldSport wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:18 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:20 pm You can’t buy Odyssey through Vanguard. I tried but it didn’t work, maybe I’m missing something.
Are the Odyssey equivalents as good as the VG Primecaps? Can you buy at Fidelity?
I don’t know if it’s equivalent, but they don’t show up as Vanguard mutual funds, I would just try to put the ticker symbol in and see if you can do a buy. Just do it befor you hit confirm or submit.
Did you ever find a way to buy the PRIMECAP funds (*not* Vanguard's versions) at Vanguard?
If not, is your account in any way restricted by an Employer?

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
DrGoogle2017
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by DrGoogle2017 »

ResearchMed wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:10 pm
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 1:08 pm
OldSport wrote: Tue Jan 15, 2019 5:18 am
DrGoogle2017 wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:20 pm You can’t buy Odyssey through Vanguard. I tried but it didn’t work, maybe I’m missing something.
Are the Odyssey equivalents as good as the VG Primecaps? Can you buy at Fidelity?
I don’t know if it’s equivalent, but they don’t show up as Vanguard mutual funds, I would just try to put the ticker symbol in and see if you can do a buy. Just do it befor you hit confirm or submit.
Did you ever find a way to buy the PRIMECAP funds (*not* Vanguard's versions) at Vanguard?
If not, is your account in any way restricted by an Employer?

RM
Not yet, I’m on vacation, I won’t do anything until I’m back home. Thanks for your suggestion.
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Re: Vanguard PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity

Post by K72 »

AlphaLess wrote: Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:28 pm So they let you put at $25K clip per account type?
Yes, according to the Flagship adviser I talked with just yesterday. For example, if you have 3 account types, you can invest $75k per year. Actually, VPCCX Vanguard PRIMECAP Core Fund has no limit (perhaps justifying the higher ER of 0.46%). What I don't know is whether you can put in $25k each of PRIMECAP and Capital Opportunity into each account type.
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