Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

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RJC
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Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by RJC » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:57 pm

Hello,

I'm thinking about opening a new taxable account for a total market index fund (or ETF). Is Vanguard that much better than a comparable fund at Fidelity (all my work accounts are there)?

Thanks!

quantAndHold
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by quantAndHold » Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:58 pm

Either one is fine.

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bengal22
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by bengal22 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:00 pm

Both are great and have good index funds.
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley

nix4me
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by nix4me » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:04 pm

Same. No advantage either way.

FZROX or ITOT at Fidelity
VTSAX or VTI at Vanguard

I have both, prefer fidelity.

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RickBoglehead
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by RickBoglehead » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:05 pm

Vanguard vote here.
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RJC
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by RJC » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:08 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:05 pm
Vanguard vote here.
Is there a distinct advantage having a separate Vanguard account?

radiowave
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by radiowave » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:10 pm

Either will work well for you. I have both, if I had to choose one, it would be Vanguard.
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retiredflyboy
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by retiredflyboy » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:12 pm

I am with Vanguard, but would just keep everything with Fidelity to keep it simple. No difference in the index funds.
Facts are stubborn things. Everything works until it doesn’t.

drzzzzz
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by drzzzzz » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:14 pm

Have both, Vanguard cheaper for a few things like money market fund, but Fidelity wins with customer service, efficiency, and getting things done in a timely fashion - their personnel and IT support seems to be much better IMHO.

sport
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by sport » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:15 pm

RJC wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:08 pm
RickBoglehead wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:05 pm
Vanguard vote here.
Is there a distinct advantage having a separate Vanguard account?
Vanguard has no expensive products to sell, and no employees on commission. Fidelity has products you probably do not want and they may try to sell them to you or whoever eventually will manage your money.

elainet7
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by elainet7 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:17 pm

VANGUARD-no shareholders-we own the company
GREAT WEBSITE

informal guide
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by informal guide » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:21 pm

Just be aware that for a taxable account, Fidelity broad equity index funds (such as total stock and 500 index) have distributed capital gains in their index funds each of the last several years; Vanguard has not, due to their patented ETF share class. This entails real costs of capital gains taxes of 15-23.8% of long term capital gains. For that reason, my incremental $$ (as well as the Fidelity distributions) are going into Vanguard index funds

Cash
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by Cash » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:21 pm

Did you read this thread?:

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=266538

Cash
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by Cash » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:22 pm

informal guide wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:21 pm
Just be aware that for a taxable account, Fidelity broad equity index funds (such as total stock and 500 index) have distributed capital gains in their index funds each of the last several years; Vanguard has not, due to their patented ETF share class. This entails real costs of capital gains taxes of 15-23.8% of long term capital gains. For that reason, my incremental $$ (as well as the Fidelity distributions) are going into Vanguard index funds
There are several free Blackrock ETFs that have historically been even more tax efficient than their Vanguard equivalents.

UpperNwGuy
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:30 pm

RJC wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:08 pm
RickBoglehead wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:05 pm
Vanguard vote here.
Is there a distinct advantage having a separate Vanguard account?
There is not.

Mando19
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by Mando19 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:37 pm

I have accounts in both and prefer Vanguard. I appreciate that Vanguard has a unique structure and is owned by it's funds and respective shareholders. Fidelity is private, primarily owned by the Johnson family, has less transparency, and has some troubling conflicts of interest.

jumppilot
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by jumppilot » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:44 pm

sport wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:15 pm
RJC wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:08 pm
RickBoglehead wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:05 pm
Vanguard vote here.
Is there a distinct advantage having a separate Vanguard account?
Vanguard has no expensive products to sell, and no employees on commission. Fidelity has products you probably do not want and they may try to sell them to you or whoever eventually will manage your money.
I’ve heard that response before - that Schwab or Fidelity will try to sell you a higher priced offering.

I’ve had a Schwab account for 10 years and have never been approached to buy anything. I have my brokerage account, mutual funds and etfs and everything functions as I’d expect.

When I call Schwab for customer support it is strictly to deal with my issue.
Last edited by jumppilot on Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Vulcan
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by Vulcan » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:46 pm

A month from now Vanguard will have Admiral shares of World Stock Index Fund (VTWSX).

Just sayin'
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase

AHTFY
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by AHTFY » Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:58 pm

Vulcan wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:46 pm
A month from now Vanguard will have Admiral shares of World Stock Index Fund (VTWSX).

Just sayin'
Can't wait!!! And I hope that as the money flows in Vanguard will lower the ER, though at 0.10% a drop or 1 or 2 basis points won't matter much.

nix4me
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by nix4me » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:04 pm

And the Fidelity Zero funds are already proving to track the indexes exactly - for no fees! Back testing shows both the total stock and international stock are spot on.

Generator515
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by Generator515 » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:12 pm

Fidelity. Keep it simple. On top of simplicity Fidelity has never gotten my cost basis wrong, answers their phones quickly, has been able to resolve my issues in under two weeks, has a better website, local offices in the rare event you need them, etc etc.

snailderby
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by snailderby » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:16 pm

Cash wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:22 pm
informal guide wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:21 pm
Just be aware that for a taxable account, Fidelity broad equity index funds (such as total stock and 500 index) have distributed capital gains in their index funds each of the last several years; Vanguard has not, due to their patented ETF share class. This entails real costs of capital gains taxes of 15-23.8% of long term capital gains. For that reason, my incremental $$ (as well as the Fidelity distributions) are going into Vanguard index funds
There are several free Blackrock ETFs that have historically been even more tax efficient than their Vanguard equivalents.
+1. Nothing wrong about sticking with Fidelity, but for a taxable account, you might want to stick with Fidelity's iShares ETFs.

TheDDC
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by TheDDC » Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:34 pm

I have accounts with both companies. IRAs + a taxable account are with Vanguard. Workplace 403(b) with Fidelity. Fidelity is lower cost than Vanguard when it comes to 403(b) by far. Fidelity has better tech, though Vanguard might be gaining ground with the latest round of upgrades. Vanguard has admiral shares, though once the fund consolidations are complete I would expect most other brokerages to offer them as well, or just offer the ETFs. Vanguard is a bit more tax efficient for mutual funds in taxable.

I have had to call Fidelity a few times a year because the 403(b) requires a bit more care and feeding due to transfers from an Ameriprise *cough* TSA I am moving slowly so as not to get hit with a surrender charge. I have not had a major problem with their customer service. My few calls to Vanguard have left me feeling... empty? Luckily I have not had to avail myself of support for Vanguard and have kept my dealings simple.

-TheDDC

bondsr4me
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by bondsr4me » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:30 am

If you want to keep things simple for yourself, just stick with Fidelity.

I have active accounts with Fidelity, Schwab, VG; and a not so active TDA account (I only use TDA for info).

IMHO, all 3 of these are OK to use.
But if simplicity is one of your objectives, then stick with Fidelity.
The Fidelity website is much better than VG.
The technology and customer service at Fidelity and Schwab is much better than VG.

And being a "shareholder" at VG is not what it is made out to be.
I, as a VG fund owner, get NO say in management or other company affairs.
Never been to a "shareholder" meeting; never had a vote on corporate matters.
Never seen a list of officer compensation....so much for being a "shareholder".
I am not dissing VG; I like the company very much.
And Jack Bogle, whom I greatly respect, has done more for the individual investor than anyone EVER.

Good Luck with your choice.

Merry Christmas and Happy 2019!

dcabler
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by dcabler » Fri Dec 21, 2018 7:48 am

RJC wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:08 pm
RickBoglehead wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 9:05 pm
Vanguard vote here.
Is there a distinct advantage having a separate Vanguard account?
I have both. Is there a distinct advantage? Not that I can tell.
I say that as I mumble a vague comment about eggs in multiple baskets, blah blah blah :D

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smarcus3
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by smarcus3 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:23 am

Fidelity Zeros ... scratch that in a taxable brokerage account. Open up a vanguard account to buy VTI / VXUS / BND in your desired AA allotments.

There are benefits to have multiple brokers. I have accounts at Fidelity and Vanguard.
This is my personal opinion. I'm an engineer not a financial advisor.

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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:28 am

nix4me wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:04 pm
And the Fidelity Zero funds are already proving to track the indexes exactly - for no fees! Back testing shows both the total stock and international stock are spot on.
Just curious, when you say the Zero funds are tracking their indices "exactly", which indices are you using for your comparison? I can't help but wonder about that given that the indices the funds use are proprietary to Fidelity.
"I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people; and if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you." (Aaron Sorkin)

arf30
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by arf30 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:30 am

For tax efficiency I use Vanguard for mutual funds in a taxable brokerage, Fidelity for all retirement accounts (IRAs, 401k, HSA). If I did taxable investing at Fidelity I'd use ETFs, but I'm not an ETF guy.

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smarcus3
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by smarcus3 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:31 am

oldcomputerguy wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:28 am
nix4me wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:04 pm
And the Fidelity Zero funds are already proving to track the indexes exactly - for no fees! Back testing shows both the total stock and international stock are spot on.
Just curious, when you say the Zero funds are tracking their indices "exactly", which indices are you using for your comparison? I can't help but wonder about that given that the indices the funds use are proprietary to Fidelity.
:) They are currently tracking FZROX to VTI very nicely. Actually over enough time they should slowly gain .04% above VTI due to no fees.
This is my personal opinion. I'm an engineer not a financial advisor.

Topic Author
RJC
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by RJC » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:04 am

Thanks everyone. This has been helpful!

Jack FFR1846
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by Jack FFR1846 » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:49 am

I'd say.....and I use Schwab and the ETF SCHB (ER=0.03%). I have taxable there and at TDAmeritrade. I'd dump TDA, but I feel they have the absolute best page for information of anyone, anywhere. I only keep VTI at TDA.

I also have about half my money at Fidelity and a quarter mil at Vanguard. I've been sort of thinking of dumping Vanguard to simplify things. They currently are the high priced guy out of the 4 I use. Maybe in the new year, I'll simplify.
Bogle: Smart Beta is stupid

Topic Author
RJC
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by RJC » Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:55 am

Jack FFR1846 wrote:
Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:49 am
I'd say.....and I use Schwab and the ETF SCHB (ER=0.03%). I have taxable there and at TDAmeritrade. I'd dump TDA, but I feel they have the absolute best page for information of anyone, anywhere. I only keep VTI at TDA.

I also have about half my money at Fidelity and a quarter mil at Vanguard. I've been sort of thinking of dumping Vanguard to simplify things. They currently are the high priced guy out of the 4 I use. Maybe in the new year, I'll simplify.
Vanguard is now the high priced guy? Wow.

WhyAmeriprise
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by WhyAmeriprise » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:32 pm

TheDDC wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 10:34 pm
I have had to call Fidelity a few times a year because the 403(b) requires a bit more care and feeding due to transfers from an Ameriprise *cough* TSA I am moving slowly so as not to get hit with a surrender charge. I have not had a major problem with their customer service. My few calls to Vanguard have left me feeling... empty? Luckily I have not had to avail myself of support for Vanguard and have kept my dealings simple.
In my last dealings with Ameriprise "advisor", we got into a discussion on why I should continue to pay mortality fees to avoid a surrender charge. On paper it was a wash, so I fired the "advisor".

I tried to consolidate at Schwab, but they couldn't handle it cleanly, so I ended up buying Vanguard via Merrill. The perks for Merrill Edge are the same once the account exceeds $100k.

I still have a couple of old 401k accounts at Fidelity, but wasn't ready to consolidate everything at one time, so I'm watching the discussion to see whether I should just do the rollover at Fidelity, or if I should move it to Vanguard.

epictetus
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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by epictetus » Fri Dec 21, 2018 5:45 pm

another option is to by VTI (the vanguard etf) in your Fidelity taxable account. I think it costs $4.95/trade.

as others have mentioned you can buy ITOT at Fidelity without a fee.
Focus on what you can control

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Re: Stick with Fidelity or open Vanguard account?

Post by ruralavalon » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:15 pm

RJC wrote:
Thu Dec 20, 2018 8:57 pm
Hello,

I'm thinking about opening a new taxable account for a total market index fund (or ETF). Is Vanguard that much better than a comparable fund at Fidelity (all my work accounts are there)?

Thanks!
Vanguard mutual funds are more tax-efficient than Fidelity mutual funds.

Both Vanguard and Fidelity offer tax-efficient ETFs (Exchange Traded Funds) you can use, with no tranaction costs.

If your other accounts were all at Fidelity, then I would suggest keeping your taxable account there as well.

Why do you not wish to consolidate your old Fidelity 401k accounts, by rolling over to an IRA at a low cost provider, or by rolling over into your current employer's 401k?

What fund firms are you currently using for what accounts? Please list.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

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