Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

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Rus In Urbe
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Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by Rus In Urbe »

Back in the day, about a quarter of a century ago, I enjoyed reading the first Motley Fools book that touted a simplified method of setting up a little collection of stocks, analyzing and paring, reinvesting. The intent was to create your own sort of stock-ladder or perhaps more aptly, mutual fund, and (well before I knew about indexing) spread some of the risk around, while avoiding the high fees of Wall Streeters, or the idiocy of day-trading. I learned a thing or two from reading their writing, though I never did set up the fund as they outlined it; this turned out to be a good thing, since over time their methodology proved to be neither resilient nor particularly profitable.

Today I just happened to click on a purported news story from Motley Fools that turned out to be one of those cheesy ads --- To whit (in paraphrase): "Have I got a hot stock tip for you! This one is guaranteed to win, and we're putting half a Million$ of our own money on this one! But we're only sharing this information with our subscribers! Buy now! You'll get rich! Look at all the hot stocks we predicted in the past!" And on and on...

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It seems that MF has joined the ranks of stock-picking hucksters who, if they were doing so darned well, would be off on their yachts and not paying for online ads in order to rope in tiny, naive investors as subscribers.

I noted on a Bogleheads thread last February, a BH-poster was attempting to discover the stock being discussed by Motley (without having to subscribe, I guess)...but given the track record and the tone of the ad, I'm not convinced MF has any stock-picking insight, or talent.....

Am I missing something here?

As far as I'm concerned....REST IN PEACE, Motley Fools.
I'd like to live as a poor man with lots of money. ~Pablo Picasso
Mike Scott
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by Mike Scott »

I credit Motley Fool for getting me started in low cost index mutual funds a long time ago. Unfortunately they turned a different direction.
your IPS
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by your IPS »

I never understood the allure of taking stock tips from a fool.
Always do what your IPS says.
Dottie57
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by Dottie57 »

Mike Scott wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:15 am I credit Motley Fool for getting me started in low cost index mutual funds a long time ago. Unfortunately they turned a different direction.
I must have read them at the same time as you. It is indeed sad to see the what has happened to this group.q
Fresh Air
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by Fresh Air »

Dottie57 wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:57 am
Mike Scott wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:15 am I credit Motley Fool for getting me started in low cost index mutual funds a long time ago. Unfortunately they turned a different direction.
I must have read them at the same time as you. It is indeed sad to see the what has happened to this group.q
Same here. I remember a Motley Fool book (aimed at young people) when I was 12 or 13. Got me interested in the concept of compounding, and was a big motivator for getting started. Shame, indeed. I guess the good news is the plethora of quality information available now, especially if you find your way here.
renue74
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by renue74 »

They've been doing those for a few years now. In marketing, it's called "advertorials." A quiet way to distribute marketing messages via something that looks like objective editorial.

I've followed them for a while, but never bought into a MF subscription to anything. The original guys were UNC grads and did try to simplify investment speak. I haven't followed what they were doing recently, though.

I think there are a ton of people out there are just plain afraid of investing because they don't do their due diligence. MF, etc. probably found it was easier to appeal to the "want to make money fast," crowd than it was to properly educate on sound financial decisions.
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CABob
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by CABob »

I have followed the Fools for many years going back to their AOL days. By "followed" I mean read some of the articles and message boards. I have not subscribed to any of their premium services. They have changed their business model over the years and in my opinion it has become less useful, but some of the message boards I still find interesting and useful.
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nisiprius
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by nisiprius »

They've been hawking stock tips for quite some time now. I can't remember how long it's been or what their original idea was--picking individual stocks through do-it-yourself research, I think?
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abc132
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by abc132 »

Motley fools had a recent interview on Wealthtrack.

Originally they had an ad based model where 5-10 investment related companies provided almost all of the revenue. In 2000, that all dried up (they had to drop from 200 to 80 employees), and they started switching to more of a subscription based fee model.

They recommended some things that made sense to me, like investing in the companies that will benefit from blockchain instead of going after specific cryptocurrencies.

I guess they can't provide for free what they want to make a profit.

They have a user stock rating system where they pool and weight the picks of those that have been historically correct, along with interviews and information in current areas of interest.

I'd be interested in hearing from someone that does subscribe as to the perceived value that is provided.
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Taylor Larimore
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"False Profits"

Post by Taylor Larimore »

Bogleheads:

Jason Zweig, one of the wisest columnists on Wall Street, is a friend of the Bogleheads who has participated in our annual conferences. In 1999 Jason wrote a revealing article about the Motley Fools. This is the link:

False Profits.

Best wishes.
Taylor
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Teague
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by Teague »

Many years ago I did subscribe to one of their stock recommendation services. Basically "ultra small cap gems," or something like that. It did much worse than the S&P 500 index over the two or so years I paid for the subscription, so I quit doing that. The experience permanently cured me of paying for any stock picking services.
Semper Augustus
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by 2015 »

renue74 wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:13 am They've been doing those for a few years now. In marketing, it's called "advertorials." A quiet way to distribute marketing messages via something that looks like objective editorial.

I've followed them for a while, but never bought into a MF subscription to anything. The original guys were UNC grads and did try to simplify investment speak. I haven't followed what they were doing recently, though.

I think there are a ton of people out there are just plain afraid of investing because they don't do their due diligence. MF, etc. probably found it was easier to appeal to the "want to make money fast," crowd than it was to properly educate on sound financial decisions.
Such marketing disguised as "objective" financial information exist everywhere now, in academic papers, the fire hose of financial books, blogs, websites, and latest "studies". These pushers of complexity know just how to string out the overconfident/underconfident users addicted to Fear of Missing Out, ego, or both.
Dottie57
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by Dottie57 »

renue74 wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 10:13 am They've been doing those for a few years now. In marketing, it's called "advertorials." A quiet way to distribute marketing messages via something that looks like objective editorial.

I've followed them for a while, but never bought into a MF subscription to anything. The original guys were UNC grads and did try to simplify investment speak. I haven't followed what they were doing recently, though.

I think there are a ton of people out there are just plain afraid of investing because they don't do their due diligence. MF, etc. probably found it was easier to appeal to the "want to make money fast," crowd than it was to properly educate on sound financial decisions.
I tried the advertorials, but quit when it hit a half hour of my time.
eugenem
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by eugenem »

The Motley Fool books got my wife and I started on the Bogleheads journey. Particularly the "You Have More Than You Think" book. Some of the latter books (Rule Makers, Rule Breakers) got me to speculate in the stock market during the late 90's/early 2000's (HGSI and some other stock symbols I can no longer remember), but I will forever be grateful for the "push" into indexing and budgets.

I'm a bit sad that they seemed to turn into stock speculation later on (I see the ads pop up from time to time on CNN).
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by Horsefly »

Some years ago - admittedly before I found this forum - I did subscribe to one of their plans. The sales pitch was that I was going to get the brilliant recommendations of the best stocks from the Gardner brothers.

I seem to recall I got 2-3 stock recommendations per week, and at least 4 solicitations to "upgrade" to one of the more select subscriptions. The tag for the upgrade was that the BEST stock picks only went to the upgraded subscribers. That really ticked me off, so I called and cancelled after two months. The only good news is that they agreed to refund my entire subscription cost.

I don't think they've changed and gotten worse. I think they were bad all along.

Steve

P.S. I almost forgot: I took all the stocks they recommended while I was subscribed and put them into a Fidelity watch list. Well before the current correction, I looked at it and found about 75% of the stocks were down more than 50% from the price at which they were recommended. Not exactly a success record.
rich126
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by rich126 »

The one thing that is often of value with TMF are the open discussion boards (i.e., don't require a paid subscription). There are a few of them with some very knowledgeable people that work in the financial industry (apparently managing large sums of money) with good insight on individual stocks and other investing advice.

But yeah, their "spam" stories disguised as articles have always been a joke. And they keep adding subscription services for all kinds of investing.

I do give them credit for keeping the discussion boards available.

(I'm assuming anyone can get a free account and access the discussion boards but I've had my account for so long, I don't know if that is still true.)
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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by oldcomputerguy »

Rus In Urbe wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 9:06 am Am I missing something here?
No.

Before I happened onto Bogleheads, I took the occasional dive into clicking through their "watch this to see what we recommend" videos. Thing is, their video would string you along (sort of video clickbait) for a good five to ten minutes, leading you by the nose, before in the final screen springing the "buy me!" portion of the show. I quickly got fed up.

Actionable: to anyone considering watching one of MF's "offers", save yourself some time and aggravation. Bail on it.
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by beowulf »

I began reading the Motley Fool soon after it started up. I too am sorry to see the direction they are now taking.They introduced me to index investing and to the buy and hold concept and I am grateful to them for that.

I am also grateful for their wonderfully humorous April Fool's day postings back in those early times.

One of the best involved the S&P 500. On normal days they would use a stock chart to illustrate the growth of an S&P index fund as exceeding the growth of those investments with high expenses or commissions. On one early April Fool's day, they issued an urgent mock apology, saying that their whole theory of the benefits of indexing and buying and holding was wrong and was based on a terrible error. They had left the preparation and display of that chart to an intern, and he had been posting it upside down, the apology went, and thus all of their advice was completely wrong. Instead of going up, the indexing and buying and holding resulted in a steadily declining portfolio, and they posted what they said was the chart right side up. They said they were sorry, and that they had fired the intern and were suing him for all they had paid him.
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by bluquark »

I gave a one-time disposable email address to Motley Fool over 10 years ago in order to read one of their articles past a login wall, and that email got flooded with spam. I don't just mean Motley Fool listmail, I mean tens of thousands of messages per year from all comers including low-rent scam pitches and phishing attempts, so I can only conclude they sold my personal information to highest bidder. They're exploitative and have been for a very long time.
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Rowan Oak
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Re: "False Profits"

Post by Rowan Oak »

Taylor Larimore wrote: Tue Dec 11, 2018 12:29 pm Bogleheads:

Jason Zweig, one of the wisest columnists on Wall Street, is a friend of the Bogleheads who has participated in our annual conferences. In 1999 Jason wrote a revealing article about the Motley Fools. This is the link:

False Profits.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Amazing how well Jason Zweig's articles have aged. Just as relevant today. Although, when you think about it Wall Street is just telling the same lies year after year and it takes people like Jason to keep repeating the truth in order to fight all the "investment hogwash".

Thank you for the link, Taylor. I had not read this article before.
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by Tamalak »

I credit Fools for introducing me to the idea that the expense ratio of a fund is incredibly important.

Fortunately I identified most of their nonsense for what it was.
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by GrowthSeeker »

I discovered MF shortly after their AOL days and even took a short online course from them. But I had the same impression as the OP except that it was maybe 10 years ago.
AFAIK, now they’re mostly selling something
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johnubc
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by johnubc »

I had subscribed to their Hidden Gems portfolio - and also the Millionaire Portfolio before I knew much about stock picking. I lost my shirt on the Millionaire Portfolio - in the beginning, it was a total failure. However, I did make some good individual stock picks based on the Hidden Gem portfolio - and did make out well using some of those tips. I have not subscribed in 9 or ten years.
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Alexa9
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by Alexa9 »

I used to read it and watch Mad Money purely for entertainment (mostly comedy). I have zero interest anymore.
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travelogue
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by travelogue »

But wait! They’re issuing a rare “double down” buy alert! Again! Like every day for the last six months!!
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nedsaid
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by nedsaid »

Motley Fools went from being mostly good to mostly bad. They were interesting in their early years but I don't read much of their stuff now. I think they did some good early on by getting people interested in investing, much of what they said was solid. Today, it just seems to be trying to guess the next big thing.
A fool and his money are good for business.
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by Jerry55 »

I watched Ford (F) and General Electric slide pretty far down in 2008 and noticed that Ford did not accept any cash or loans from the Gov't.
(I've been a Ford Man since the late 60's, 1st car being a used 68 Torino)
I noticed Ford slide from $8, down to $6 per share. Carl Icahn bought around 8 and sold all about $7.

That's when I took notice and began purchases from around $6, down to just under $5. I must've gotten about 1300 shares.
I believe it was in early 2010 they went up to about $10.75/share, so I sold them all, making certain I had held them over 1 year.
My Co-worker who is a loyal reader of Motley Fools showed me this article that said that NOW is a good time to buy Ford.
Well, the previous year, he was telling me NOT to buy according to "The Fool", and not to try and catch a falling knife.

I told him I'll gladly sell him my shares. He's still reading it tho.
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Wakefield1
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by Wakefield1 »

Are the two original Motley "Fools" still associated with the business or have they moved on or sold it?
Seems like the golden age was about 20 years ago
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CABob
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by CABob »

Wakefield1 wrote: Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:13 pm Are the two original Motley "Fools" still associated with the business or have they moved on or sold it?
Seems like the golden age was about 20 years ago
I believe you are referring to brothers Tom and David Gardner and yes they are still involved and promote their services.
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black cat fortunate
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by black cat fortunate »

The podcast "Motley Fool Answers" was wonderful starting point for me as newbie, and I also first heard of Bogleheads on that podcast. 💜
Calli114
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Re: Motley Fools is now for fools only?.....RIP

Post by Calli114 »

Same here, have not followed them for quite some time. Enjoyed their site early on and played their trivia game. Fun.
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