Vang Wellesley for Retirement

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micknc19
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Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by micknc19 » Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:08 pm

I am thinking putting all my 401k assets into Wellesley other then a 4 year spending cash account that I will drip fill from dividends from Wellesley. In years where capital gains are positive I may take some off the table to assist in the cash account.

Thoughts ?

dcop
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by dcop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:00 am

micknc19 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:08 pm
I am thinking putting all my 401k assets into Wellesley other then a 4 year spending cash account that I will drip fill from dividends from Wellesley. In years where capital gains are positive I may take some off the table to assist in the cash account.

Thoughts ?
I've put 40% of my portfolio in Wellesley and 40% in Wellington. So I'm playing both sides of the 60/40. I find it makes me feel better (as opposed to having 80% in Wellington) when equities struggle. And like you say the dividends are nice.

MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 am

dcop wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:00 am
micknc19 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:08 pm
I am thinking putting all my 401k assets into Wellesley other then a 4 year spending cash account that I will drip fill from dividends from Wellesley. In years where capital gains are positive I may take some off the table to assist in the cash account.

Thoughts ?
I've put 40% of my portfolio in Wellesley and 40% in Wellington. So I'm playing both sides of the 60/40. I find it makes me feel better (as opposed to having 80% in Wellington) when equities struggle. And like you say the dividends are nice.
Isn't it more prudent to put yourself at the mercy of the whole market rather a few fund managers? I will feel more secure using balanced index funds or some combination of their components.

HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:36 am

MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 am
dcop wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:00 am
micknc19 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:08 pm
I am thinking putting all my 401k assets into Wellesley other then a 4 year spending cash account that I will drip fill from dividends from Wellesley. In years where capital gains are positive I may take some off the table to assist in the cash account.

Thoughts ?
I've put 40% of my portfolio in Wellesley and 40% in Wellington. So I'm playing both sides of the 60/40. I find it makes me feel better (as opposed to having 80% in Wellington) when equities struggle. And like you say the dividends are nice.
Isn't it more prudent to put yourself at the mercy of the whole market rather a few fund managers? I will feel more secure using balanced index funds or some combination of their components.
In short, no, it’s not more prudent to use index funds:

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... tion4_2=50

dcop
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by dcop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:46 am

MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 am
Isn't it more prudent to put yourself at the mercy of the whole market rather a few fund managers? I will feel more secure using balanced index funds or some combination of their components.
If you can point me to somewhere in the combined 128 years of these 2 funds that they were mis-managed then perhaps it would be prudent. I'm not sure these life spans reflect that tho.

MathIsMyWayr
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by MathIsMyWayr » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:38 am

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:36 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 am
dcop wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:00 am
micknc19 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:08 pm
I am thinking putting all my 401k assets into Wellesley other then a 4 year spending cash account that I will drip fill from dividends from Wellesley. In years where capital gains are positive I may take some off the table to assist in the cash account.

Thoughts ?
I've put 40% of my portfolio in Wellesley and 40% in Wellington. So I'm playing both sides of the 60/40. I find it makes me feel better (as opposed to having 80% in Wellington) when equities struggle. And like you say the dividends are nice.
Isn't it more prudent to put yourself at the mercy of the whole market rather a few fund managers? I will feel more secure using balanced index funds or some combination of their components.
In short, no, it’s not more prudent to use index funds:

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... tion4_2=50
This is an interesting comparison. I use mostly index funds as advocated on this forum, but keep a small portion, not more than 10%, in my favorite active fund, Fidelity Contra Fund (FCNTX). When VFINX is replaced with FCNTX, we get a result better than the other two. However, I will keep FCNTX at the current level or even lower.
Sorry, somehow I cannot copy the link here.

lifeisinmirrors
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by lifeisinmirrors » Tue Dec 04, 2018 2:47 am

What percent of your assets are in the 401k? Wellesley would be my top choice for an asset allocation fund, but I still couldn't get behind having more than half my assets in one actively managed fund.

bearcub
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by bearcub » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:44 am

Around 15% of my assets are in the Global Wellesley in one of my IRAs. Don"t plan on touching it till about 20 years from now if I"m still around. Good move? Check back with me in 20. :wink:

z3r0c00l
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by z3r0c00l » Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:53 am

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:36 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 am
dcop wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:00 am
micknc19 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:08 pm
I am thinking putting all my 401k assets into Wellesley other then a 4 year spending cash account that I will drip fill from dividends from Wellesley. In years where capital gains are positive I may take some off the table to assist in the cash account.

Thoughts ?
I've put 40% of my portfolio in Wellesley and 40% in Wellington. So I'm playing both sides of the 60/40. I find it makes me feel better (as opposed to having 80% in Wellington) when equities struggle. And like you say the dividends are nice.
Isn't it more prudent to put yourself at the mercy of the whole market rather a few fund managers? I will feel more secure using balanced index funds or some combination of their components.
In short, no, it’s not more prudent to use index funds:

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... tion4_2=50
How does a portfolio backtest, and one from a short period of time, demonstrate this? It had been lucky to pick the actively managed fund, that got lucky, this time around. That does not refute the concept of avoiding active in general.

StopIroningShirts
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by StopIroningShirts » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:19 am

+1 for the Wellesley/Wellington 50/50 split in retirement. I've been a 10+ year owner of the Wellington Fund. I've helped multiple family retirees sit in the Wellesley Fund. Its a simple option for someone not overly sophisticated with investing. Compared to the sharks trying to sell these family members high fee annuities, the Wellesley Fund is outstanding

donaldfair71
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by donaldfair71 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:35 am

HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:36 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 am
dcop wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:00 am
micknc19 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:08 pm
I am thinking putting all my 401k assets into Wellesley other then a 4 year spending cash account that I will drip fill from dividends from Wellesley. In years where capital gains are positive I may take some off the table to assist in the cash account.

Thoughts ?
I've put 40% of my portfolio in Wellesley and 40% in Wellington. So I'm playing both sides of the 60/40. I find it makes me feel better (as opposed to having 80% in Wellington) when equities struggle. And like you say the dividends are nice.
Isn't it more prudent to put yourself at the mercy of the whole market rather a few fund managers? I will feel more secure using balanced index funds or some combination of their components.
In short, no, it’s not more prudent to use index funds:

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... tion4_2=50
There are many, many good reasons to hold the W&W funds. A backtest like this isn't one of them.

tibbitts
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by tibbitts » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:04 am

dcop wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:46 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 am
Isn't it more prudent to put yourself at the mercy of the whole market rather a few fund managers? I will feel more secure using balanced index funds or some combination of their components.
If you can point me to somewhere in the combined 128 years of these 2 funds that they were mis-managed then perhaps it would be prudent. I'm not sure these life spans reflect that tho.
I'm not sure it would constitute mismanagement, but as you're aware Wellington suffered through many years of what turned out to be horrible investment selection decisions. I believe Bogle describes the period as its "speculative" era in one of his writings. I think it would be fair to say the fund barely survived. It certainly morphed dramatically from what it started out to be - it essentially went through two dramatic transformations during its lifetime. You would probably say the fund managers went off the rails if you were experiencing that, and I doubt most people would have held on - in fact, most people didn't.

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vineviz
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by vineviz » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:05 am

dcop wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:46 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 am
Isn't it more prudent to put yourself at the mercy of the whole market rather a few fund managers? I will feel more secure using balanced index funds or some combination of their components.
If you can point me to somewhere in the combined 128 years of these 2 funds that they were mis-managed then perhaps it would be prudent. I'm not sure these life spans reflect that tho.
They’re not guilty of mismanagement, merely of being lucky.

Jumping out of a moving car and surviving isn’t proof that it was a prudent decision.
"Far more money has been lost by investors preparing for corrections than has been lost in corrections themselves." ~~ Peter Lynch

donaldfair71
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by donaldfair71 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:37 am

vineviz wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:05 am
dcop wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:46 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 am
Isn't it more prudent to put yourself at the mercy of the whole market rather a few fund managers? I will feel more secure using balanced index funds or some combination of their components.
If you can point me to somewhere in the combined 128 years of these 2 funds that they were mis-managed then perhaps it would be prudent. I'm not sure these life spans reflect that tho.
They’re not guilty of mismanagement, merely of being lucky.

Jumping out of a moving car and surviving isn’t proof that it was a prudent decision.
I go back and forth on this.

Like, on one hand, lots of evidence out there that factors provide alpha, and and actively managaed fund that is almost as inexpensive as an index fund could certainly institute a factor-based strategy. Remember, active management is usually a loser's bet after costs. Keep costs basically the same as an index fund, there's no reason to assume underachievement.

On the other hand, these factors, if proprietary, can be changed in the future, and strategies have changed in the past. Plus, do all factors persist in perpetuity? In Rick Ferri's interview, he even talks about this in his podcast with Mr. Bogle. John talks about Wellington "losing its way" before finding itself again, during the 80s I believe.

Nowizard
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by Nowizard » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:31 am

Hedgefundie: That is a great post. It illuminates a sustainable point-of-view and contrasts with those who have made different decisions. The thread does show how investment decisions are individually made by thoughtful investors based on both statistical and emotional factors.
Tim

mtmingus
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by mtmingus » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:43 am

Vanguard is an index shop but ironically it has some of the best actively managed funds. Among them VWINX and VWELX. Don't forget Global Min Volatility Fund VMVFX and Dividend Growth VDIGX.

azanon
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by azanon » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:48 am

micknc19 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:08 pm
I am thinking putting all my 401k assets into Wellesley other then a 4 year spending cash account that I will drip fill from dividends from Wellesley. In years where capital gains are positive I may take some off the table to assist in the cash account.

Thoughts ?
Good idea, except pick the Global version. Going heavy US bias stocks this far into a US market bull run will probably be terrible timing, besides the fact that most experts recommend at least 20% allocation to non-US stocks (a level Wellesley doesn't reach) and usually more than that.

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David Jay
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by David Jay » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:58 am

micknc19 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:08 pm
I am thinking putting all my 401k assets into Wellesley other then a 4 year spending cash account that I will drip fill from dividends from Wellesley. In years where capital gains are positive I may take some off the table to assist in the cash account.

Thoughts ?
Are you still working? You only specifically mention a 401K, but you also talk about a cash spending account and capital gains (which don’t apply inside a 401K).

Give us a better picture of your current status and you may well get more applicable answers.
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius

HEDGEFUNDIE
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by HEDGEFUNDIE » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:17 am

z3r0c00l wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 6:53 am
HEDGEFUNDIE wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:36 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 am
dcop wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:00 am
micknc19 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:08 pm
I am thinking putting all my 401k assets into Wellesley other then a 4 year spending cash account that I will drip fill from dividends from Wellesley. In years where capital gains are positive I may take some off the table to assist in the cash account.

Thoughts ?
I've put 40% of my portfolio in Wellesley and 40% in Wellington. So I'm playing both sides of the 60/40. I find it makes me feel better (as opposed to having 80% in Wellington) when equities struggle. And like you say the dividends are nice.
Isn't it more prudent to put yourself at the mercy of the whole market rather a few fund managers? I will feel more secure using balanced index funds or some combination of their components.
In short, no, it’s not more prudent to use index funds:

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... tion4_2=50
How does a portfolio backtest, and one from a short period of time, demonstrate this? It had been lucky to pick the actively managed fund, that got lucky, this time around. That does not refute the concept of avoiding active in general.
You’re right, of course. But would you rather be right, or rich? :twisted:

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Taylor Larimore
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by Taylor Larimore » Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:45 am

dcop wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:46 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:34 am
Isn't it more prudent to put yourself at the mercy of the whole market rather a few fund managers? I will feel more secure using balanced index funds or some combination of their components.
If you can point me to somewhere in the combined 128 years of these 2 funds that they were mis-managed then perhaps it would be prudent. I'm not sure these life spans reflect that tho.
dcop:
From 1966 to 1979, Wellington's total return was minus -6.3%, a far cry from the average return of plus +14.4% earned by our balanced-fund peers." -- Source: Mr. Bogle's "Stay The Course."
Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

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Blister
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by Blister » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:01 pm

SEC Rule 156 "Past Performance Is Not Indicative Of Future Results"

I too own some Wellesley but don't expect it to do better than the market over time.

Good Luck.
Everthing works out in the end. If it doesn't then its not the end.

dcop
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by dcop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 12:10 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 11:45 am
dcop wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:46 am

If you can point me to somewhere in the combined 128 years of these 2 funds that they were mis-managed then perhaps it would be prudent. I'm not sure these life spans reflect that tho.
dcop:
From 1966 to 1979, Wellington's total return was minus -6.3%, a far cry from the average return of plus +14.4% earned by our balanced-fund peers." -- Source: Mr. Bogle's "Stay The Course."
Best wishes.
Taylor
The good news: I was broke in that time frame and wasn't invested. :happy
The bad news: I agree, 20pts off the competitors sucked. :(

Dottie57
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by Dottie57 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:01 pm

micknc19 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:08 pm
I am thinking putting all my 401k assets into Wellesley other then a 4 year spending cash account that I will drip fill from dividends from Wellesley. In years where capital gains are positive I may take some off the table to assist in the cash account.

Thoughts ?
I think index funds are more diversified. How about 50% in Wellesley and 50% in total stock/bond index fund.

Admiral
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by Admiral » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:06 pm

micknc19 wrote:
Mon Dec 03, 2018 10:08 pm
I am thinking putting all my 401k assets into Wellesley other then a 4 year spending cash account that I will drip fill from dividends from Wellesley. In years where capital gains are positive I may take some off the table to assist in the cash account.

Thoughts ?
It would be helpful to know your age. That, and when you plan to need/use the money.

I hold Wellesley as a small part of my retirement portfolio. It is a good fund with a reasonable ER. However, it's not difficult to mimic the fund's holdings using Total Stock and Total Bond Admiral shares and pay lower fees (.15% for VWIAX versus .04 and .05% for the others, respectively.) Whether that difference is a meaningful one to you is your decision. In general, I don't believe you're going to do appreciably better paying for an active fund, and hence I would not make it my core holding.

You might also consider a target date fund if you want to set it and forget it (depending on your age and risk tolerance.)

bloom2708
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by bloom2708 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 1:12 pm

Wellesley has ~100 stocks and 1,000 bonds.

Total US has 3,600 stocks and Total US bond has 10,000 bonds.

That would be the only thing to give me pause with an all Wellesley strategy. A much thinner slice of everything. Same for Wellington.
"We are not here to please, but to provoke thoughtfulness." --Unknown Boglehead

InvMoney
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by InvMoney » Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:44 pm

I'm a retiree who has had a 50% Wellington / 50% Wellesley Income allocation for more than a decade.

Following is a table that shows what $100,000 invested in Wellington, Wellesley Income and various Vanguard index funds on January 1, 2000 would be worth as of November 30, 2018. (Source: Portfolio Visualizer.)

$400,481 - Wellington - VWELX
$370,256 - Wellesley Income - VWINX
$279,045 - Balanced Index - VBINX
$265,436 - S&P 500 Index - VFINX
$231,267 - Total Bond Index- VBMFX

Some index fund advocates will claim that Wellington's and Wellesley Income's long-term record is irrelevant, because past performance is not necessarily a predictor of future performance. But the fact of the matter is that Wellington and Wellesley Income have followed a consistent, index beating, value oriented strategy for decades that entails investing in large cap, dividend paying stocks and intermediate-term, investment grade bonds.

dcop
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by dcop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:17 pm

InvMoney wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:44 pm
I'm a retiree who has had a 50% Wellington / 50% Wellesley Income allocation for more than a decade.

Following is a table that shows what $100,000 invested in Wellington, Wellesley Income and various Vanguard index funds on January 1, 2000 would be worth as of November 30, 2018. (Source: Portfolio Visualizer.)

$400,481 - Wellington - VWELX
$370,256 - Wellesley Income - VWINX
$279,045 - Balanced Index - VBINX
$265,436 - S&P 500 Index - VFINX
$231,267 - Total Bond Index- VBMFX

Some index fund advocates will claim that Wellington's and Wellesley Income's long-term record is irrelevant, because past performance is not necessarily a predictor of future performance. But the fact of the matter is that Wellington and Wellesley Income have followed a consistent, index beating, value oriented strategy for decades that entails investing in large cap, dividend paying stocks and intermediate-term, investment grade bonds.
In 2008 Wellesly VWIAX was down 9.8% which wasn't too shabby considering the disaster hammer that hit equities, real estate and other funds. Part of the reason it came out so well in your research.

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Socrates28
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I wish I had Wellesley and Wellington in my 403(b)

Post by Socrates28 » Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:27 pm

they are amazing funds and have been rock solid for decades

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Taylor Larimore
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by Taylor Larimore » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:17 pm

InvMoney wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:44 pm

Following is a table that shows what $100,000 invested in Wellington, Wellesley Income and various Vanguard index funds on January 1, 2000 would be worth as of November 30, 2018. (Source: Portfolio Visualizer.)

$400,481 - Wellington - VWELX
$370,256 - Wellesley Income - VWINX
$279,045 - Balanced Index - VBINX
$265,436 - S&P 500 Index - VFINX
$231,267 - Total Bond Index - VBMFX
Bogleheads:

The above statistic shows Wellington had a much higher return ($400.481) than S&P 500 Index ($231,267).

Let's take another look as of the same ending date (November 30, 2018):

---------Fund---------------5-years-----10-years-----15 years

Wellington (VWELX)-------7.49%-------10.84%--------8.17%

S&P 500 Index (VFINX)-10.46%------14.17%-------8.69%

Lesson Learned: Beginning (and ending) dates can make a huge difference in annualized returns.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

dcop
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by dcop » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:26 pm

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:17 pm
InvMoney wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:44 pm

Following is a table that shows what $100,000 invested in Wellington, Wellesley Income and various Vanguard index funds on January 1, 2000 would be worth as of November 30, 2018. (Source: Portfolio Visualizer.)

$400,481 - Wellington - VWELX
$370,256 - Wellesley Income - VWINX
$279,045 - Balanced Index - VBINX
$265,436 - S&P 500 Index - VFINX
$231,267 - Total Bond Index - VBMFX
Bogleheads:

The above statistic shows Wellington had a much higher return ($400.481) than S&P 500 Index ($231,267).

Let's take another look as of the same ending date (November 30, 2018):

---------Fund---------------5-years-----10-years-----15 years

Wellington (VWELX)-------7.49%-------10.4%--------8.17%

S&P 500 Index (VFINX)-10.46%------14.17%-----8.69%

Best wishes.
Taylor
InvMoneys research goes back just short of 19 years tho.

tibbitts
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by tibbitts » Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:46 pm

InvMoney wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:44 pm
I'm a retiree who has had a 50% Wellington / 50% Wellesley Income allocation for more than a decade.

Following is a table that shows what $100,000 invested in Wellington, Wellesley Income and various Vanguard index funds on January 1, 2000 would be worth as of November 30, 2018. (Source: Portfolio Visualizer.)

$400,481 - Wellington - VWELX
$370,256 - Wellesley Income - VWINX
$279,045 - Balanced Index - VBINX
$265,436 - S&P 500 Index - VFINX
$231,267 - Total Bond Index- VBMFX

Some index fund advocates will claim that Wellington's and Wellesley Income's long-term record is irrelevant, because past performance is not necessarily a predictor of future performance. But the fact of the matter is that Wellington and Wellesley Income have followed a consistent, index beating, value oriented strategy for decades that entails investing in large cap, dividend paying stocks and intermediate-term, investment grade bonds.
Have you compared Wellington with Fidelity Puritan, since the latter's inception in the late 1940s? Puritan has done well too, yet gets no love around here.

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Taylor Larimore
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by Taylor Larimore » Tue Dec 04, 2018 10:17 pm

Bogleheads:

I sense that we are succumbing to the easiest (and most dangerous) investor mistake.
Jack Bogle: "The biggest mistake investors make is looking backward at performance and thinking it’ll recur in the future."
Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

Dandy
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by Dandy » Wed Dec 05, 2018 7:40 am

I use Balanced Index and Wellesley Income to account for all my TIRA equity exposure. I supplement that with various fixed income products to bring the overall allocation to the desired level. So far I like the arrangement.

Admiral
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Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by Admiral » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:35 am

dcop wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 8:17 pm
InvMoney wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:44 pm
I'm a retiree who has had a 50% Wellington / 50% Wellesley Income allocation for more than a decade.

Following is a table that shows what $100,000 invested in Wellington, Wellesley Income and various Vanguard index funds on January 1, 2000 would be worth as of November 30, 2018. (Source: Portfolio Visualizer.)

$400,481 - Wellington - VWELX
$370,256 - Wellesley Income - VWINX
$279,045 - Balanced Index - VBINX
$265,436 - S&P 500 Index - VFINX
$231,267 - Total Bond Index- VBMFX

Some index fund advocates will claim that Wellington's and Wellesley Income's long-term record is irrelevant, because past performance is not necessarily a predictor of future performance. But the fact of the matter is that Wellington and Wellesley Income have followed a consistent, index beating, value oriented strategy for decades that entails investing in large cap, dividend paying stocks and intermediate-term, investment grade bonds.
In 2008 Wellesly VWIAX was down 9.8% which wasn't too shabby considering the disaster hammer that hit equities, real estate and other funds. Part of the reason it came out so well in your research.
Well sure but you would expect that, as it's like what 40% bonds, IIRC. That moderated (and moderates) declines, and certainly compared to an all-stock fund.

Personally I hold it in my (tax-sheltered) accounts because it generates a good dividend and generally steady performance, and has for many, many years. However I still would not make it a primary holding due to it's (relative) lack of diversification and higher cost, versus other broader tracking indexes.

sawhorse
Posts: 3148
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:05 pm

Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by sawhorse » Wed Dec 05, 2018 9:43 am

mtmingus wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:43 am
Vanguard is an index shop but ironically it has some of the best actively managed funds. Among them VWINX and VWELX. Don't forget Global Min Volatility Fund VMVFX and Dividend Growth VDIGX.
Definitely. If it weren't for their active funds, I would no longer be a Vanguard customer because of the customer service problems I've experienced. I can get index funds that are just as good at Fidelity. But I can't get Wellesley.

edgeway
Posts: 6
Joined: Thu Nov 15, 2018 3:00 pm

Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by edgeway » Wed Dec 05, 2018 12:23 pm

tibbitts wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 9:46 pm
InvMoney wrote:
Tue Dec 04, 2018 7:44 pm
I'm a retiree who has had a 50% Wellington / 50% Wellesley Income allocation for more than a decade.

Following is a table that shows what $100,000 invested in Wellington, Wellesley Income and various Vanguard index funds on January 1, 2000 would be worth as of November 30, 2018. (Source: Portfolio Visualizer.)

$400,481 - Wellington - VWELX
$370,256 - Wellesley Income - VWINX
$279,045 - Balanced Index - VBINX
$265,436 - S&P 500 Index - VFINX
$231,267 - Total Bond Index- VBMFX

Some index fund advocates will claim that Wellington's and Wellesley Income's long-term record is irrelevant, because past performance is not necessarily a predictor of future performance. But the fact of the matter is that Wellington and Wellesley Income have followed a consistent, index beating, value oriented strategy for decades that entails investing in large cap, dividend paying stocks and intermediate-term, investment grade bonds.
Have you compared Wellington with Fidelity Puritan, since the latter's inception in the late 1940s? Puritan has done well too, yet gets no love around here.
+1 fan of the Puritan fund. Other great 60/40 active funds (since Wellington/Puritan aren't available to everyone) are Janus Balanced (JABAX) and T. Rowe Price Cap Appreciation (PRWCX). Both have been very consistent for decades and compare favorably to Wellington. We use a 50/50 mix in my wife's 401K between VINIX and PRWCX.

micknc19
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 21, 2017 8:44 pm

Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by micknc19 » Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:45 pm

Why would anyone add additional funds outside of Wellesley since it is a managed fund and if it meets your needs ? Is that not skewing the entire portfolio by adding various other funds and not stick with Wellesley ?

2pedals
Posts: 648
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2014 12:31 pm

Re: Vang Wellesley for Retirement

Post by 2pedals » Wed Dec 05, 2018 11:56 pm

micknc19 wrote:
Wed Dec 05, 2018 10:45 pm
Why would anyone add additional funds outside of Wellesley since it is a managed fund and if it meets your needs ? Is that not skewing the entire portfolio by adding various other funds and not stick with Wellesley ?
Many folks here would argue that managed funds do not meet their needs alone. They tend to have higher risks, greater costs and less ability to create a portfolio that meets your asset allocation (% stocks and % bonds) in your individual investment accounts.

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