Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

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Lazareth
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Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:53 pm

This forum has inspired me to consider dropping our manager in favor of a simple 4-fund portfolio. It’s been comforting to have a manager select the appropriate index funds, determine the allocation across our accounts, and rebalance, but it costs us about $5K/yr. I would welcome suggestions and encouragement or warnings.

We pay our manager .375% AUM. They oversee our total savings of $1.3 million across one taxable and two IRA accounts at Schwab. They maintain a 60/40 AA using eleven low-cost index funds...Vanguard, DFA, and I-Shares.

At 64, I'm retired from my one-person recruiting practice so my saving days are behind me. With no pension, just social security, it’s critical that we steward our savings carefully. I enjoy my "retirement job" as school-bus driver which pays $29,000 per year and I hope to do it into my seventies. When my wife stops working in two years we’ll both begin collecting SS with the goal of covering our living expenses and leave our savings untouched until RMD's kick in.

I’ve read up on Bogleheads’ 3 and 4-fund strategy and Rick Ferri’s Core-4 recommendations. We need to decide:
  • First, are we better off to keep the manager and pay the .375% fee? If not:
  • Which funds to use based on ER and future transaction costs.
  • Tax considerations of liquidating our existing funds?
  • Is is advantageous to keep one or more of the funds we already own.
  • What are potential pitfalls when terminating our manager?
  • Timing considerations?
  • RISK: Should I be concerned about concentrated hacking risk, institutional risk, of having our total worth diversified in only four funds at one custodian?
  • Should we change our 60/40 allocation now that we are mid-60’s and our retirement funding days are over?

Here's our situation:
  • Emergency funds: Three to six months of expenses in our checking accounts.
  • Debt: No credit card debt. We drive two used paid-for cars.
  • Mortgage: $155K balance on our 2012-refinanced 30-year mortgage at 3.625% rate. Monthly P&I $810. Insurance & property tax $5,000 /year. Home value $325K.
  • Healthcare: No health issues. Wife’s employer health plan for now, then Medicare - Advantage or similar.
  • Filing Status: Married Filing Jointly
  • Tax Rate: Federal 22%, State: 5.1% State
  • Residence: Massachusetts
  • Age: Husband 65, Wife 63
  • Savings: Taxable account $190,000 Wife's IRA $210,000, Husband's Rollover IRA $900,000. All at Schwab.

    Thank you for reading this and for your comments.

    Perhaps too much info, but I made this table below detailing our current allocation of eleven index funds across our three Schwab accounts:

    Code: Select all

    Total portfolio, across three accounts:  $1,300,000    100%
         US Stock funds                                  33%
         Real Estate Funds                                5%
         International Stocks                            20%
         Bond Funds                                      41%
         Cash & Equivalents                               1%
    
    
    Individual Account details:
    
    Joint Taxable Account - Schwab          $190,000     100%
      Cash                                                   1%
      DFA Emerging Markets Core Stock Fund - DFCEX           4%
      DFA International Small Cap Value Fund - DISVX         4%
      I-Shares S&P Small-Cap 600 Value Index ETF - IJS       8%
      Vanguard FTSE Europe Index ETF - VGK                   6%
      Vanguard FTSE Pacific Index ETF - VPL                  6%
      Vanguard Total Stock Market Index ETF - VTI           25%
      Vanguard Real Estate Index ETF - VNQ                   6%
      Vanguard High Yield Corporate Fund - VWEAX             8%
      Vanguard Inflation-Protected Securitas Fund - VAIPX    7%
      Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund - VBTLX         16%
      Vanguard Total International Bond Index Fund - VTABX   9%
    
    Wife's Traditional IRA - Schwab          $210,300    100%
      Cash                                                    1%
      DFA Emerging Markets Core Stock Fund - DFCEX           2%
      DFA International Small Cap Value Fund - DISVX         1%
      Vanguard Ftse Europe Index ETF - VGX                   1%
      Vanguard Ftse Pacific Index ETF - VPL                  5%
      Vanguard High Yield Corporate Fund                     1%
      Vanguard Inflation-Protected Securities Fund - VAIPX   3%
      Vanguard Real Estate Index ETF - VNQ                   4%
      Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund - VBTLX          4%
      Vanguard Total Stock Market Index ETF - VTI           78%
    
    Husband's SEP Rollover IRA - Schwab         $910,000   100%
      Schwab Money Market                                    1%
      DFA EMERGING MARKETS CORE STOCK FUND                   5%
      DFA International Small Cap Value Fund - DISVX         4%
      I shares S&P Small-Cap 600 Value Index ETF - IJS      10%
      Vanguard FTSE Europe Index ETF - VGK                   7%
      Vanguard FTSE Pacific Index ETF - VPL                  6%
      Vanguard High Yield Corporate Fund - VWEAX            10%
      Vanguard Inflation-Protected Securities Fund - VAIPX   9%
      Vanguard Real Estate Index ETF - VNQ                   5%
      Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund - VBTLX         19%
      Vanguard Total International Bond Index Fund- VTABX   11%
      Vanguard Total Stock Market Index ETF- VTI            13%
      
    
Last edited by Lazareth on Thu Nov 15, 2018 1:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.

stimulacra
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by stimulacra » Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:52 pm

I probably would. The only value I would see in a wealth manager is their ability to help me stay the course during periods of extreme market declines or volatility. How did you fare emotionally during 2008-2009? 2001? How long have you been with your current manager?

60/40 with a 4-fund portfolio should be a no-brainer to set and forget. The 11 funds/allocations looks like mostly window-dressing to me; custom slice and dice to justify the AUM fee.

Globalviewer58
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Globalviewer58 » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:07 pm

If you feel comfortable managing your own 4 fund portfolio then thank the advisor for her help and wish her well. The Bogleheads forum can serve as the steady hand when you feel angst over a market drop or have questions about your plans. You have better things to do with the $4700 you were handing over to your advisor every year.

Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:08 pm

How much extra value did the investment manager provide versus the benchmark return? How tax efficient is your portfolio? For taxable assets, reallocating should be done on as much of a tax efficient basis as possible. Did you incur any taxable gains in the time you have held this portfolio that required you to pay taxes? Do you feel comfortable making rebalancing moves when required? Sometimes the investment manager does provide value, but you have to decide whether paying $5K or .375 bps is really too high if you aren't able to stay the course by doing it yourself or making the correct re-balancing moves as required.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

Rwsawbones
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Rwsawbones » Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:19 pm

The greatest value an investment advisor brings to the table is managing the client not the portfolio. Your portfolio looks good. If your advisor will help you live with your investments through the expected downturns with stocks depreciating 50% s/he will be doing you a valuable service. The cost is quite reasonable.

Lazareth
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:51 am

stimulacra wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 8:52 pm
How did you fare emotionally during 2008-2009? 2001? How long have you been with your current manager?
Thank you. I've been with our current manager since 2012. In 2008-2009 I was with a 1% manager recommended by Schwab, Windward Inv Mgt, and did worse than markets. I "stayed the course" with them for a few more painful years until I saw the light on index investing and hired our current manager. Now I'm looking at the next step, to simplify and further cut expenses.
Last edited by Lazareth on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lazareth
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:00 am

Rwsawbones wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:19 pm
The greatest value an investment advisor brings to the table is managing the client not the portfolio. Your portfolio looks good. If your advisor will help you live with your investments through the expected downturns with stocks depreciating 50% s/he will be doing you a valuable service. The cost is quite reasonable.
Thank you for your good points, it is these considerations that give me pause. The value is reasonable, but the fee is one our largest expenses.
Last edited by Lazareth on Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Lazareth
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:18 am

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:08 pm
How much extra value did the investment manager provide versus the benchmark return? How tax efficient is your portfolio? For taxable assets, reallocating should be done on as much of a tax efficient basis as possible. Did you incur any taxable gains in the time you have held this portfolio that required you to pay taxes? Do you feel comfortable making rebalancing moves when required? Sometimes the investment manager does provide value, but you have to decide whether paying $5K or .375 bps is really too high if you aren't able to stay the course by doing it yourself or making the correct re-balancing moves as required.
Thank you. According to the manager's 3Q-2018 Performance Report it appears we've lagged the "Policy Benchmark Return" by .5% annualized since 10/01/2012 (7.5% vs. 8.0% annualized). We have incurred taxable gains in the taxable account. And yes, I feel I could do the rebalancing when required and I will be interested to hear rebalancing advice from forum members who do that.
Last edited by Lazareth on Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Lazareth
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:20 am

Globalviewer58 wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 9:07 pm
If you feel comfortable managing your own 4 fund portfolio then thank the advisor for her help and wish her well. The Bogleheads forum can serve as the steady hand when you feel angst over a market drop or have questions about your plans. You have better things to do with the $4700 you were handing over to your advisor every year.
Thank you! That's what I've been thinking.

retiredjg
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by retiredjg » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:22 am

There are many ways to look at this. I'm not sure you need a manager, but if you want one, I think where you are at the price you are paying is fine. There's nothing wrong with this portfolio.

Another way to look at it, if you (like many) plan to follow something close to a 4% withdrawal rate, you will be paying about 1/10th of that in AUM. Paying 9% or 10% of your portfolio distribution to an advisor seems high if you look at it that way. On the other hand, if you are prone to doing stupid stuff when the market gets wonky....it's worth the cost because you could lose a lot more.

One thing you could do very easily is to take the IRAs out of the AUM amount and leave the taxable account there. This would cut your costs to almost nothing and those accounts could be invested in a target index fund at something close to 60/40 for a lower cost. Schwab has more than one series of target funds - you'd want the index series for the low costs.

Target funds require no management from you other than to make sure it does not migrate toward bonds slower or faster than you want to. If that happens, you just shift all the money into the next younger or older target fund. There is no tax cost for changing funds in an IRA.

It is quite possible that the AUM rate for the remaining $190k might be higher than the low rate you are currently paying. If this idea appeals to you, you need to find that out first.


If you decide to move all of it out of AUM, you could still keep all the funds you have in the taxable account and put the rest into target funds. this would mean you only have to rebalance taxable and even if you don't, it won't hurt the portfolio much because 90% of it is in the target funds.

If you decide to move it all out of AUM and sell what is in the taxable account, there will be capital gains taxes to pay.

Should you sell? Not necessarily. There are a lot of funds there, but the content of the account is not so different from what you would have in a 3 or 4 fund portfolio. It is just broken down into smaller pieces.

ExitStageLeft
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by ExitStageLeft » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:53 am

Welcome to the forum!

The good news is that your current manager put you in funds that have captured the same returns that a lazy three-fund or four-fund portfolio would have delivered.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion16_3=10

The better news is that you can get that same diverse portfolio at lower cost. On top of that you should look to putting assets in accounts best suited for their tax-efficiency. You shouldn't be holding $47k worth of bonds in the taxable account when they can sit comfortably in your IRA and do their job without generating taxable dividends.

If it were possible to switch over instantly with no tax consequences, your ideal portfolio would have the bonds in tax-deferred accounts. Your target portfolio could really be as simple as:

Taxable Account (14.5%)
4% Vanguard Total Stock Market (VTSAX)
10.5% Vanguard Total International Market (VTIAX)

Her tIRA (16%)
16% Vanguard Total Stock Market (VTSAX)

His tIRA (69.5%)
20% Vanguard Total Stock Market (VTSAX)
9.5% Vanguard Total International Market (VTIAX)
28% Vanguard Total Bond Index (VBTLX)
12% Vanguard Total International Bond Index (VTABX)

Balancing can all be done in his tIRA. You probably wouldn't want the exact same funds in taxable as you have in the IRA to make it easier to do some tax loss harvesting.

retiredjg
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by retiredjg » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:22 am

ExitStageLeft wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:53 am
On top of that you should look to putting assets in accounts best suited for their tax-efficiency. You shouldn't be holding $47k worth of bonds in the taxable account when they can sit comfortably in your IRA and do their job without generating taxable dividends.
I agree with this in principle, but I don't think it is worth a tax cost to achieve it. $47k is a very small percentage of the overall portfolio so this is a pretty small amount of inefficiency. I'd probably just live with it.

As funds are sold in taxable, I'd get rid of the REIT first and the High Yield Corporate fund second. They are probably the worst offenders. In the 12% tax bracket, I don't think I'd worry much about the others. :happy

Beach
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Beach » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:12 pm

I'm glad you are enjoying your school bus driving side gig and hope the kids treat you with respect. I imagine you are in the minority, I certainly didn't run into your type when I rode the bus.

delamer
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by delamer » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:24 pm

I am a little hazy on how dependent you are on the bus driving income and so how you’d be affected financially if you had to give it up for some reason.

You also did not mention how much Social Security you expect.

The reason the above is important is because your portfolio allocation should be determined — to some extent — by how dependent you are on the income from the portfolio to cover your expenses in retirement.

$5000 per year is a very reasonable fee, especially since your advisor is using low-cost index funds. You should consider what kind of investment help you’d want your wife to have if you predecease her.

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nedsaid
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by nedsaid » Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:36 pm

I would say that 0.375% is a reasonable fee to pay for portfolio management. Having been a mostly do-it-yourself investor my entire investing career, I am actually considering turning over the keys and having someone else manage for me. There are issues of such things as cognitive decline and leaving the portfolio to a spouse that doesn't understand investing and portfolio management. That all being said, a four fund portfolio should be relatively easy to self-manage.

Vanguard does this for 0.30% so your current advisor is very competitive. You will likely get more personalized service with your current advisor as well.

Another alternative would be to buy an age-appropriate Target Date Retirement fund or a risk based fund like the Vanguard LifeStrategy Funds. Risk based funds have aggressive, moderate, and conservative portfolios. This gives you professional management and rebalancing for no additional cost above the imbedded expense ratios of the underlying funds.
A fool and his money are good for business.

Lazareth
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:23 pm

retiredjg wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:22 am
... One thing you could do very easily is to take the IRAs out of the AUM amount and leave the taxable account there. This would cut your costs to almost nothing and those accounts could be invested in a target index fund at something close to 60/40 for a lower cost. Schwab has more than one series of target funds - you'd want the index series for the low costs.
Thank you! Our AUM manager has a $500K floor so I could not leave only the $190K taxable with them, I would exit the relationship altogether. I had not considered target funds, but your suggestion is very appealing: Place the two IRA's ($210K and $900K) in Schwab Target Index Funds (target 2025 or 2020?) and, as you had further suggested, keep the taxable account as-is, avoiding capital gains, and tolerate the small stock exposure there.

Has it been the opinion of many in this forum that it seems contrary to good risk management to put pretty much all of your wealth, in my case our two IRA's, into one vehicle such as Schwab's Target Index Funds?

retiredjg
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by retiredjg » Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:56 pm

Actually, it would be to tolerate the small bond exposure there, not stocks. However the REIT is stock exposure. REIT is a particularly tax-inefficient type of stock fund and not a Boglehead choice for a taxable account.

The taxable account could be "cleaned up" over time, getting rid of the REIT first and the High Yield fund second and the others as you want.

Even though my personal preference is not a bunch of stock ETFs in my own accounts, they are going to do essentially the same thing as the total stock and total international....it would not be worth a tax cost to "fix" that to me just to reduce the number of funds. It would be a different story if they were high cost or causing unnecessary taxes.

In the next downturn, if it goes low enough, you might even sell everything with little to no tax and then slide that money into exactly what you want essentially tax free. Then wait for the rebound. This will be difficult to do if you don't have it in your head to do that from the get go.

retiredjg
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by retiredjg » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:05 pm

Lazareth wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:23 pm
Has it been the opinion of many in this forum that it seems contrary to good risk management to put pretty much all of your wealth, in my case our two IRA's, into one vehicle such as Schwab's Target Index Funds?
It should be just fine. If you look at the list of the components of the target fund, it's pretty much the same stuff you are holding individually right now except all of them are Schwab ETFs, not a variety.

Lazareth
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:30 pm

Beach wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:12 pm
I'm glad you are enjoying your school bus driving side gig and hope the kids treat you with respect. I imagine you are in the minority, I certainly didn't run into your type when I rode the bus.
I'm seeing more retirees doing this. Good if you enjoy driving. Up and out early each day and then from 8:45 am til 2:00 the day is mine, home for dinner. Nights, weekends, holidays, and summer off. After 35 years of eat-what-you-kill it's nice to just to turn the key and drive. I greet all 'my kids' by name on my city-wide route for a charter high school and we all get along fine.

Lazareth
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:31 pm

delamer wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:24 pm
I am a little hazy on how dependent you are on the bus driving income and so how you’d be affected financially if you had to give it up for some reason.

You also did not mention how much Social Security you expect.

The reason the above is important is because your portfolio allocation should be determined — to some extent — by how dependent you are on the income from the portfolio to cover your expenses in retirement.

$5000 per year is a very reasonable fee, especially since your advisor is using low-cost index funds. You should consider what kind of investment help you’d want your wife to have if you predecease her.
Thank you for the good points. Should I predecease her or question my own cognitive capacity I foresee the AUM manager back in the picture.

I too am hazy on how dependent I'll be on the bus driving income after my wife stops working in 2020 ($50K/yr pre tax). I believe social security income, mine plus hers, will be $22K plus $15K pre-tax. Ideally, with continued good health and my bus income we can bridge those following four years until my RMD begins in 2024 without drawing from our portfolio. Then at 70 1/2, in 2024, I expect to begin a 4% yearly withdrawal.
But should I lose the bus job before 2024 we could become dependent on some level of income, up to 2%, from the portfolio.

retiredjg
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by retiredjg » Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:44 pm

Lazareth wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:31 pm
Then at 70 1/2, in 2024, I expect to begin a 4% yearly withdrawal.
Well, it won't be 4% for more than a couple of years. The percentage starts about something near 3.75% goes up every year.

Lazareth
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:53 pm

retiredjg wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 3:56 pm
Actually, it would be to tolerate the small bond exposure there, not stocks. However the REIT is stock exposure. REIT is a particularly tax-inefficient type of stock fund and not a Boglehead choice for a taxable account.

The taxable account could be "cleaned up" over time, getting rid of the REIT first and the High Yield fund second and the others as you want.

Even though my personal preference is not a bunch of stock ETFs in my own accounts, they are going to do essentially the same thing as the total stock and total international....it would not be worth a tax cost to "fix" that to me just to reduce the number of funds. It would be a different story if they were high cost or causing unnecessary taxes.

In the next downturn, if it goes low enough, you might even sell everything with little to no tax and then slide that money into exactly what you want essentially tax free. Then wait for the rebound. This will be difficult to do if you don't have it in your head to do that from the get go.
Yes of course the bond exposure, less tax efficient, thank you for clarifying. Considering our relatively small taxable account and somewhat modest tax bracket I think we would leave the existing funds in the taxable account for now. The bigger decision is regarding the $1.1MM in the two Schwab IRA's... do I use four individual Vanguard or Schwab funds in each account, or simply place each total account into a Schwab Target Index Fund. The latter seems to accomplish the same thing but at an even lower cost and pretty much self-managed with no need for rebalancing.

Lazareth
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:06 pm

nedsaid wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:36 pm
I would say that 0.375% is a reasonable fee to pay for portfolio management. Having been a mostly do-it-yourself investor my entire investing career, I am actually considering turning over the keys and having someone else manage for me. There are issues of such things as cognitive decline and leaving the portfolio to a spouse that doesn't understand investing and portfolio management. That all being said, a four fund portfolio should be relatively easy to self-manage.

Vanguard does this for 0.30% so your current advisor is very competitive. You will likely get more personalized service with your current advisor as well.

Another alternative would be to buy an age-appropriate Target Date Retirement fund or a risk based fund like the Vanguard LifeStrategy Funds. Risk based funds have aggressive, moderate, and conservative portfolios. This gives you professional management and rebalancing for no additional cost above the imbedded expense ratios of the underlying funds.
Thank you nedsaid. I appreciate your perspective on the fee and the target funds. I'm leaning toward self-managing with Schwab target index funds, and save the $5K manager fee for the next 6-8 years. Then we can then re-evaluate the need for a manager for the reasons you mentioned.

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nedsaid
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by nedsaid » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:18 pm

Lazareth wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:06 pm
nedsaid wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:36 pm
I would say that 0.375% is a reasonable fee to pay for portfolio management. Having been a mostly do-it-yourself investor my entire investing career, I am actually considering turning over the keys and having someone else manage for me. There are issues of such things as cognitive decline and leaving the portfolio to a spouse that doesn't understand investing and portfolio management. That all being said, a four fund portfolio should be relatively easy to self-manage.

Vanguard does this for 0.30% so your current advisor is very competitive. You will likely get more personalized service with your current advisor as well.

Another alternative would be to buy an age-appropriate Target Date Retirement fund or a risk based fund like the Vanguard LifeStrategy Funds. Risk based funds have aggressive, moderate, and conservative portfolios. This gives you professional management and rebalancing for no additional cost above the imbedded expense ratios of the underlying funds.
Thank you nedsaid. I appreciate your perspective on the fee and the target funds. I'm leaning toward self-managing with Schwab target index funds, and save the $5K manager fee for the next 6-8 years. Then we can then re-evaluate the need for a manager for the reasons you mentioned.
Well, over 6-8 years your savings would be $30,000 to $40,000. Even with a $1.3 million portfolio, that is a lot of money. Don't blame you for wanting to self manage, indeed most here do that.
A fool and his money are good for business.

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Toons
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Toons » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:24 pm

5k?
That covers my travel expenses in the Rv for
6 months.
If you feel comfortable handling financial matters yourself.
Give it a go and let him go.
:mrgreen:
"One does not accumulate but eliminate. It is not daily increase but daily decrease. The height of cultivation always runs to simplicity" –Bruce Lee

retiredjg
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by retiredjg » Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:34 pm

Lazareth wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 6:53 pm
The bigger decision is regarding the $1.1MM in the two Schwab IRA's... do I use four individual Vanguard or Schwab funds in each account, or simply place each total account into a Schwab Target Index Fund. The latter seems to accomplish the same thing but at an even lower cost and pretty much self-managed with no need for rebalancing.
You have a choice of using 3 or 4 funds vs a target fund, but I would not buy Vanguard funds at Schwab because of the transaction fees. I suppose if you only have a few transactions a year, it would not matter. I'm not sure what their fees are or if they are charged for both buying and selling or just buying.

If you like Schwab, their Index target funds seem fine to me. If you want Vanguard funds, move your money to Vanguard.

Using a target fund for most of your money would accomplish essentially the same thing as your current advisor with AUM but at a much lower cost. If you need the advisor to keep you from doing stupid stuff, the target funds will not do that for you. However, I have not seen anything in your posts that indicate you are prone to doing stupid stuff.

Lazareth
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:28 pm

ExitStageLeft wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:53 am
Welcome to the forum!

The good news is that your current manager put you in funds that have captured the same returns that a lazy three-fund or four-fund portfolio would have delivered.
Thank you! I appreciate the informative link to the visualizer, and your taking the time to detail a recommended portfolio broken down by account allocations.

The replies here on the forum have provided some excellent points for me to consider. I'll now take some time to examine the pro's and con's of converting to a 4 fund portfolio of Vanguard or Schwab index funds, vs. simply buying 100% Schwab target index funds in our two Schwab IRA's.

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GerryL
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by GerryL » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:35 pm

Lazareth wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:31 pm
delamer wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 2:24 pm
I am a little hazy on how dependent you are on the bus driving income and so how you’d be affected financially if you had to give it up for some reason.

You also did not mention how much Social Security you expect.

The reason the above is important is because your portfolio allocation should be determined — to some extent — by how dependent you are on the income from the portfolio to cover your expenses in retirement.

$5000 per year is a very reasonable fee, especially since your advisor is using low-cost index funds. You should consider what kind of investment help you’d want your wife to have if you predecease her.
Thank you for the good points. Should I predecease her or question my own cognitive capacity I foresee the AUM manager back in the picture.

I too am hazy on how dependent I'll be on the bus driving income after my wife stops working in 2020 ($50K/yr pre tax). I believe social security income, mine plus hers, will be $22K plus $15K pre-tax. Ideally, with continued good health and my bus income we can bridge those following four years until my RMD begins in 2024 without drawing from our portfolio. Then at 70 1/2, in 2024, I expect to begin a 4% yearly withdrawal.
But should I lose the bus job before 2024 we could become dependent on some level of income, up to 2%, from the portfolio.
Lazareth,
Are you in a spot to be able to add to your Roth IRA? Your bus gig is providing W2 wages, right?

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by MotoTrojan » Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:39 pm

REITs in taxable...? You aren’t getting your monies worth. I’d setup your own tax-efficient and simplified portfolio over time, to avoid any large near-term tax hits.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:03 pm

retiredjg wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 7:34 pm
If you like Schwab, their Index target funds seem fine to me. If you want Vanguard funds, move your money to Vanguard.

Using a target fund for most of your money would accomplish essentially the same thing as your current advisor with AUM but at a much lower cost. If you need the advisor to keep you from doing stupid stuff, the target funds will not do that for you. However, I have not seen anything in your posts that indicate you are prone to doing stupid stuff.
Thank you for the compliment, and for staying with this topic for me.
I have great respect for everything Vanguard but prefer to maintain my 30-year Schwab relationship so I'm favoring dropping the AUM manager and then trading each our two IRA accounts (total $1.1MM) into a Schwab Target Index Fund. I now have to familiarize myself further with the target index funds and determine an appropriate target and resulting AA for my situation.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:15 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:39 pm
REITs in taxable...? You aren’t getting your monies worth. I’d setup your own tax-efficient and simplified portfolio over time, to avoid any large near-term tax hits.
Thanks for pointing that out. I had not questioned the manager's fund allocation choices across my accounts. I will look to eventually trade out of the REIT and bond funds in the taxable account. It's a small amount relative to my overall portfolio but still not tax efficient. I will look to the forum for some strategies to accomplish that.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:43 pm

GerryL wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:35 pm
Lazareth wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:31 pm
Thank you for the good points. Should I predecease her or question my own cognitive capacity I foresee the AUM manager back in the picture.

I too am hazy on how dependent I'll be on the bus driving income after my wife stops working in 2020 ($50K/yr pre tax). I believe social security income, mine plus hers, will be $22K plus $15K pre-tax. Ideally, with continued good health and my bus income we can bridge those following four years until my RMD begins in 2024 without drawing from our portfolio. Then at 70 1/2, in 2024, I expect to begin a 4% yearly withdrawal.
But should I lose the bus job before 2024 we could become dependent on some level of income, up to 2%, from the portfolio.
Lazareth,
Are you in a spot to be able to add to your Roth IRA? Your bus gig is providing W2 wages, right?
GerryL: Thank you for asking. I had opened a Schwab Roth IRA five years ago at the manager's recommendation that there might be strategic opportunities to fund it, but it has since just sat there with the $10K I used to open it. Are you suggesting I should consider funding the Roth?

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by CyclingDuo » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:29 am

Lazareth wrote:
Sun Nov 11, 2018 7:53 pm
This forum has inspired me to consider dropping our manager in favor of a simple 4-fund portfolio. It’s been comforting to have a manager select the appropriate index funds, determine the allocation across our accounts, and rebalance, but it costs us about $5K/yr. I would welcome suggestions and encouragement or warnings.
What is that cost of $5K per year if compounded at 6% per year as an investment instead?

In 25 years, paying $5K per year compared to that amount being invested instead and compounded at 6% annually would end up being $274,318.17 if you kept it rather than paying the manager. :shock:

$238,631 if compounded at 5% per year. :shock:
$316,240 if compounded at 7% per year. :shock:

Thank goodness you are not paying 1% AUM fees. :beer

There is something to be said for a simple three fund portfolio or Rick Ferri's core four portfolio in terms of avoiding AUM fees. The simplicity and lower cost should stand out as a true contender if you can cut the strings and go the DIY method.

Think of the fee you are paying them now as one nice vacation per year that they get, and you don't.
"Everywhere is within walking distance if you have the time." ~ Steven Wright

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by GerryL » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:10 am

Lazareth wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 9:43 pm
GerryL wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 8:35 pm
Lazareth wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 5:31 pm
Thank you for the good points. Should I predecease her or question my own cognitive capacity I foresee the AUM manager back in the picture.

I too am hazy on how dependent I'll be on the bus driving income after my wife stops working in 2020 ($50K/yr pre tax). I believe social security income, mine plus hers, will be $22K plus $15K pre-tax. Ideally, with continued good health and my bus income we can bridge those following four years until my RMD begins in 2024 without drawing from our portfolio. Then at 70 1/2, in 2024, I expect to begin a 4% yearly withdrawal.
But should I lose the bus job before 2024 we could become dependent on some level of income, up to 2%, from the portfolio.
Lazareth,
Are you in a spot to be able to add to your Roth IRA? Your bus gig is providing W2 wages, right?
GerryL: Thank you for asking. I had opened a Schwab Roth IRA five years ago at the manager's recommendation that there might be strategic opportunities to fund it, but it has since just sat there with the $10K I used to open it. Are you suggesting I should consider funding the Roth?
I am suggesting you consider whether putting additional money into a tax-advantaged account would be a good move in your circumstances. Having different types of accounts (taxable, tIRA and Roth IRA) can give you flexibility when it comes time to start pulling money out in retirement. If you are bringing in enough to put some into long-term savings, the Roth could be a good option.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Tue Nov 13, 2018 1:09 pm

ExitStageLeft wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:53 am
Welcome to the forum!

The good news is that your current manager put you in funds that have captured the same returns that a lazy three-fund or four-fund portfolio would have delivered.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion16_3=10

The better news is that you can get that same diverse portfolio at lower cost. On top of that you should look to putting assets in accounts best suited for their tax-efficiency. You shouldn't be holding $47k worth of bonds in the taxable account when they can sit comfortably in your IRA and do their job without generating taxable dividends.

If it were possible to switch over instantly with no tax consequences, your ideal portfolio would have the bonds in tax-deferred accounts. Your target portfolio could really be as simple as:

Taxable Account (14.5%)
4% Vanguard Total Stock Market (VTSAX)
10.5% Vanguard Total International Market (VTIAX)

Her tIRA (16%)
16% Vanguard Total Stock Market (VTSAX)

His tIRA (69.5%)
20% Vanguard Total Stock Market (VTSAX)
9.5% Vanguard Total International Market (VTIAX)
28% Vanguard Total Bond Index (VBTLX)
12% Vanguard Total International Bond Index (VTABX)

Balancing can all be done in his tIRA. You probably wouldn't want the exact same funds in taxable as you have in the IRA to make it easier to do some tax loss harvesting.
Thanks again ExitStageLeft. Using the portfoliovisualizer back-test link you provided I learned that I could have simply put my IRA's into the Schwab Target 2025 Index Fund, at .08% ER, and captured a similar or slightly higher return with somewhat similar diversification.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by ExitStageLeft » Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:43 pm

Be sure to check out the Exposures tab that PortfolioVisualizer gives you. Your current portfolio is able to cover the cost of actively managed funds by taking more risk. The credit quality is much lower, with 18% junk bonds whereas the lazy portfolios have no junk bonds.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:53 pm

ExitStageLeft wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 2:43 pm
Be sure to check out the Exposures tab that PortfolioVisualizer gives you. Your current portfolio is able to cover the cost of actively managed funds by taking more risk. The credit quality is much lower, with 18% junk bonds whereas the lazy portfolios have no junk bonds.
Thank you I had not looked at the Exposure tab, there is a lot of information there. Regarding the hi yield exposure I'd be interested to learn how the boglehead community looks at hi yield collectively... does HY merit a place in a well-diversified savings portfolio?

I used the exposure tab to further compare the four-fund portfolio against an all-in-one target index fund 2025. That seems to be the choice I am now facing, having pretty much decided to say goodbye to the AUM manager.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by ExitStageLeft » Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:43 pm

Lazareth wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:53 pm
...
Thank you I had not looked at the Exposure tab, there is a lot of information there. Regarding the hi yield exposure I'd be interested to learn how the boglehead community looks at hi yield collectively... does HY merit a place in a well-diversified savings portfolio?

I used the exposure tab to further compare the four-fund portfolio against an all-in-one target index fund 2025. That seems to be the choice I am now facing, having pretty much decided to say goodbye to the AUM manager.
I'm also trying to get a better sense of what constitutes a good bond fund. For my needs, I want something that is not tied to the US stock market. Have a look at the high yield and total market bond funds:

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion2_2=100

If you scroll down to the Portfolio Returns, look at the rightmost column, market correlation. The high yield fund has a correlation of 0.67, whereas the total market bond fund has a correlation of -0.07. The high correlation means that the fund gains and losses are moderately in sync with the stock market. I'd rather have a bond that has zero correlation, so that it won't also drop when the market plunges.

Many folks on this forum recommend keeping the risky yield-chasing to your stock investments and let the bonds be the stable anchor that you need.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by retiredjg » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:28 am

Lazareth wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 7:53 pm
Regarding the hi yield exposure I'd be interested to learn how the boglehead community looks at hi yield collectively... does HY merit a place in a well-diversified savings portfolio?
Junk bonds are not part of any frequently recommended portfolio here. Like many things, a little bit is probably OK. I'm sure some people use a small slice.

In the bad times, a junk bond fund is going to act more like stocks than bonds. Why have a bond fund that doesn't act like a bond fund?

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Wed Nov 14, 2018 10:43 am

ExitStageLeft wrote:
Tue Nov 13, 2018 8:43 pm

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion2_2=100

If you scroll down to the Portfolio Returns, look at the rightmost column, market correlation. The high yield fund has a correlation of 0.67, whereas the total market bond fund has a correlation of -0.07. The high correlation means that the fund gains and losses are moderately in sync with the stock market. I'd rather have a bond that has zero correlation, so that it won't also drop when the market plunges.

Many folks on this forum recommend keeping the risky yield-chasing to your stock investments and let the bonds be the stable anchor that you need.
Thanks for the forum view on h/y bonds.
I see your point about market correlation. I really like that PortfolioVisualizer tool, thanks for introducing me to it. In your first reply to my initial post you compared my current AUM portfolio vs a 3-fund Vanguard portfolio and a 4-fund with International Bonds added, I wasn't surprised to see that Int'l Bonds did not appear to add real benefit.

Because I will be keeping the funds at Schwab (I've had excellent customer service from Schwab for decades... investments, checking, cc's) I will use the visualizer to compare the Vanguard funds you listed vs. similar Schwab funds. I did not see where the PortfolioVisualizer considers fund expense ratios or costs. Perhaps it just reports net of fees and leaves it at that. If I were to favor Vanguard funds for use in my Schwab IRA's I expect that Schwab's transaction fees for the Vanguard fund rebalancings would be relatively negligible.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:04 pm

ExitStageLeft wrote:
Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:53 am
If it were possible to switch over instantly with no tax consequences, your ideal portfolio would have the bonds in tax-deferred accounts. Your target portfolio could really be as simple as:

Taxable Account (14.5%)
4% Vanguard Total Stock Market (VTSAX)
10.5% Vanguard Total International Market (VTIAX)

Her tIRA (16%)
16% Vanguard Total Stock Market (VTSAX)

His tIRA (69.5%)
20% Vanguard Total Stock Market (VTSAX)
9.5% Vanguard Total International Market (VTIAX)
28% Vanguard Total Bond Index (VBTLX)
12% Vanguard Total International Bond Index (VTABX)
ExitStageLeft: I see that the 4-fund portfolio you illustrate here is the bh 3-fund model plus you added International Bonds, whereas Rick Ferri's 4-fund classic Core-4 portfolio adds REIT's instead of Int'l Bonds.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by ExitStageLeft » Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:49 pm

I was emulating the Vanguard 4-fund core they use on their target date funds. I personally don't invest in international bonds. There are arguments for and against and I have yet to form a strong opinion either way.

DW and I have a three-fund portfolio across several accounts, so we actually have T. Rowe Price, Vanguard, and TSP funds. Plus a smattering of stuff in an inherited IRA at Edward Jones that will get transferred to Vanguard soon.

I don't put a lot of faith in the PortfolioVisualizer numbers, but it is my understanding that they reflect returns after expenses. I would expect a Schwab index fund would have near-identical returns to a similar Vanguard fund. I only choose Vanguard in my PV analyses because that is what I am familiar with.

My wife and I haven't travelled far yet on our journey of financial enlightenment and simplicity. Real estate and REITS are something that we will contemplate further. Up until I started reading this forum, I fancied getting into real estate by buying, renovating, and renting a distressed property. Reading many threads on the joys and anti-joys of being a landlord I have decided that isn't for me. The jury is still out on whether REITs should be a part of our potfolio.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:58 pm

ExitStageLeft wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 1:49 pm
I was emulating the Vanguard 4-fund core they use on their target date funds. I personally don't invest in international bonds. There are arguments for and against and I have yet to form a strong opinion either way.

DW and I have a three-fund portfolio across several accounts, so we actually have T. Rowe Price, Vanguard, and TSP funds. Plus a smattering of stuff in an inherited IRA at Edward Jones that will get transferred to Vanguard soon.

I don't put a lot of faith in the PortfolioVisualizer numbers, but it is my understanding that they reflect returns after expenses. I would expect a Schwab index fund would have near-identical returns to a similar Vanguard fund. I only choose Vanguard in my PV analyses because that is what I am familiar with.

My wife and I haven't travelled far yet on our journey of financial enlightenment and simplicity. Real estate and REITS are something that we will contemplate further. Up until I started reading this forum, I fancied getting into real estate by buying, renovating, and renting a distressed property. Reading many threads on the joys and anti-joys of being a landlord I have decided that isn't for me. The jury is still out on whether REITs should be a part of our potfolio.
Thank you for this. You seemed to have traveled the journey further than you give yourself credit. I agree on the landlord role. I had owned a two-family, 1930's style, made some money and got out thanks to a strong market and good tenants but saw enough horror stories to keep me from going back.
It appears to me that REITS don't improve the portfolio stats if you look at the past 4 or 5 years, but I know that's not the bh way of looking at the world. REITS's are the fourth fund in Rick's Ferri's Core-4 portfolios and I'm a long-time fan of Rick's work. I believe he includes them in the equity calculation for purposes of the Stock/Bond breakdown. At age 64 and still a few years away from relying on my portfolios, I plan to go for a 50/50 AA, so my 4-funds overall would be as follows:

15.00% Vanguard FTSE All-Wld ex-US Idx Inv (VFWIX)
30.00% Schwab Total Stock Market Index (SWTSX)
5.00% Schwab US REIT ETF (SCHH)
50.00% Schwab US Aggregate Bond ETF (SCHZ)

I got dizzy trying to follow all the well-written posts covering all the variables when deciding on such a portfolio. I'll be grateful for any thoughts on this specific one. I know, "If I'm happy with it, it's the right one", but hey.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by retiredjg » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:51 am

Lazareth wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:58 pm
15.00% Vanguard FTSE All-Wld ex-US Idx Inv (VFWIX)
30.00% Schwab Total Stock Market Index (SWTSX)
5.00% Schwab US REIT ETF (SCHH)
50.00% Schwab US Aggregate Bond ETF (SCHZ)
I think the portfolio is fine, but why the Vanguard international fund? And why that one?

Lazareth
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Thu Nov 15, 2018 11:04 am

retiredjg wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:51 am
Lazareth wrote:
Wed Nov 14, 2018 7:58 pm
15.00% Vanguard FTSE All-Wld ex-US Idx Inv (VFWIX)
30.00% Schwab Total Stock Market Index (SWTSX)
5.00% Schwab US REIT ETF (SCHH)
50.00% Schwab US Aggregate Bond ETF (SCHZ)
I think the portfolio is fine, but why the Vanguard international fund? And why that one?
I appreciate your question. I followed Rick Ferri's core-4 fund recommendations. The 'core-4' asset classes he recommends are:

Total US Stock Market
Total International Stock Market
Fixed income, bonds, "including variable rate securities and cash equivalents"
REITs

You will notice Rick doesn't include a separate international bond component.

Rick's website offers this table of suggested funds in each of those classes:

https://core-4.com/classic-core-4-funds/

Since none of his international stock fund recommendations are Schwab I picked a Vanguard fund, VFWIX - All World Ex-US Index fund. It is composed of 75% developed markets and 25% emerging markets so I figure it is a good replacement for the three funds I currently have for international equity: Vanguard FTSE Pacific Index, and Vanguard FTSE Europe Index fund, and DFA Emerging Markets fund.

Thanks again, comments welcomed as always.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by retiredjg » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:44 pm

Here is what I'm thinking. If you buy a Vanguard fund or ETF at Schwab, there will be a transaction fee. I don't know how much it is and it may be different for a mutual fund vs an ETF.

When you can get what you want with no fee at all, that is better. Fees are costs and keeping costs low is important so it is worth the trouble to avoid transaction fees. If you only buy and sell once or twice a year, it obviously does not matter much.

I suggest you see what International funds are available at Schwab on their no-transaction-fee list. I'm not familiar and can't help you with that. However, others might know the answer.

retiredjg
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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by retiredjg » Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:46 pm

PS, the FTSE fund is fine, but does not contain the small caps. That would matter to some people but it matters little in terms of performance.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Thu Nov 15, 2018 8:51 pm

retiredjg wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 5:44 pm
Here is what I'm thinking. If you buy a Vanguard fund or ETF at Schwab, there will be a transaction fee. I don't know how much it is and it may be different for a mutual fund vs an ETF.

When you can get what you want with no fee at all, that is better. Fees are costs and keeping costs low is important so it is worth the trouble to avoid transaction fees. If you only buy and sell once or twice a year, it obviously does not matter much.

I suggest you see what International funds are available at Schwab on their no-transaction-fee list. I'm not familiar and can't help you with that. However, others might know the answer.
Thank you for the suggestion. SPDR MSCI ex-US ETF, symbol CWI, is an international large cap equity fund very similar to Vanguard's VFWIX and it's on the core-4 list and on the Schwab One-Source no-fee list, so I'm plugging that one in instead.

I am finding a wide range of opinions on the benefit adding small cap, international f/i and REITS. Are they worth the effort? I backtested a simple 2-fund 60/40 portfolio, SWTSX-Schwab Total Stock Mkt and SCHZ-Schwab US Aggregate Bond and it does very well without any of those three 'other' asset classes. But, again, I'm following Rick Ferri's Core-4 which prefers REITS for diversification, and not so much int'l f/i or small cap.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by retiredjg » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:13 pm

A wide range of opinions might mean that nobody knows or that it does not make a great deal of difference.

International bonds - Vanguard is fond of diversifying with international bonds. Their standard portfolio contains international bonds.

Their international bond fund is likely a good one and pretty low cost. Many of us old-timers don't see a compelling reason to add them. But there doesn't seem to be any reason not to add them either. Flip a coin. It probably does not matter a lot in the long run....in my opinion.

Adding small cap? Small caps are already included in the total stock market. Tilting to more small cap is a philosophical decision.

Same with REIT - already included in total stock market. Some people want more.

Nobody knows if any of these things will help or not during the time period when you are invested.

Pick a plan, don't flip back and forth, and you'll be fine. The important thing is to save money. These other things are pretty minor.

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Re: Should we drop our manager, for 4-fund portfolio?

Post by Lazareth » Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:42 pm

retiredjg wrote:
Thu Nov 15, 2018 9:13 pm
Pick a plan, don't flip back and forth, and you'll be fine. The important thing is to save money. These other things are pretty minor.
Yes, thanks for bringing me back to that.

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