TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

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crit
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Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:54 pm

TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by crit » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:28 pm

I have S&P 500 indices (VFINX) in our Roth IRA accounts.

I have Total Stock Market (VTSAX) and large-cap (VLCAX) in our taxable. I TLHd last week from total market into large cap. What have you used for a third fund, if the current drops in VTSAX are sustained? (I used VVIAX previously, but without very much thought, and got out of it at another loss, in 2015).

Same for Total International and FTSE indices ... I TLHd from VFWAX into VTIAX last week already, so what's a good third option if my VTIAX shows a loss?

Just looking for some options for mutual funds at Vanguard.

Living Free
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Re: TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by Living Free » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:42 pm

could consider the vanguard S&P 500 index fund for a US stock index

livesoft
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Re: TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by livesoft » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:48 pm

One could figure out how to wait until 30 days have passed, too.
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crit
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Re: TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by crit » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:52 pm

Living Free wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:42 pm
could consider the vanguard S&P 500 index fund for a US stock index
Because I have VFINX, the vanguard 500 index, in our Roth IRAs this would create a wash sale.

MotoTrojan
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Re: TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by MotoTrojan » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:54 pm

crit wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:28 pm
I have S&P 500 indices (VFINX) in our Roth IRA accounts.

I have Total Stock Market (VTSAX) and large-cap (VLCAX) in our taxable. I TLHd last week from total market into large cap. What have you used for a third fund, if the current drops in VTSAX are sustained? (I used VVIAX previously, but without very much thought, and got out of it at another loss, in 2015).

Same for Total International and FTSE indices ... I TLHd from VFWAX into VTIAX last week already, so what's a good third option if my VTIAX shows a loss?

Just looking for some options for mutual funds at Vanguard.
I'd work your Roth to allow you to swap into S&P 500; not hard to do. We are spoiled for TLH capability in domestic stocks as I consider these 3 funds equivalent. Not so lucky in International.

International will always lose you some exposure from Total Int, especially if you really want a 3rd partner. Could hold EM & SC in Roth to balance it, but that is a pain to manage.

ivk5
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Re: TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by ivk5 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:55 pm

For US: Apart from total stock market, S&P 500, and Large, other options to consider include:

- Russell 3000/1000 (I don’t like spreads though)

- Mega, Mid, and possibly Small. In CRSP scheme, Large = Mega + Mid (in appropriate proportions). I did this last week, after intraday TLH locked me out of VTHR (Russell 3000).

Similarly for intl, could slice by geo or size for TLH purposes. (I don’t generally hold intl in taxable.)

Holding same funds in Roth won’t be an issue in future if you disable auto reinvestment there.
Last edited by ivk5 on Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

jalbert
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Re: TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by jalbert » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:55 pm

Vtclx can also be used for such a TLH.
Risk is not a guarantor of return.

ivk5
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Re: TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by ivk5 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:56 pm

jalbert wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:55 pm
Vtclx can also be used for such a TLH.
True although no ETF so trickier to execute and less versatile.

MotoTrojan
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Re: TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by MotoTrojan » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:17 pm

ivk5 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:56 pm
jalbert wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:55 pm
Vtclx can also be used for such a TLH.
True although no ETF so trickier to execute and less versatile.
Sell the ETF at 3:50pm EST, and buy the exact dollar amount of replacement Mutual Fund before 4pm. What’s tricky?

ivk5
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Re: TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by ivk5 » Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:21 pm

MotoTrojan wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 1:17 pm
ivk5 wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:56 pm
jalbert wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:55 pm
Vtclx can also be used for such a TLH.
True although no ETF so trickier to execute and less versatile.
Sell the ETF at 3:50pm EST, and buy the exact dollar amount of replacement Mutual Fund before 4pm. What’s tricky?
Purely personal preference. I live in Europe and am not always available at that time, typically prefer trading earlier in the session and a marketable ETF order provides more certainty. To each his own. :sharebeer

nolesrule
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Re: TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by nolesrule » Thu Oct 18, 2018 2:58 pm

crit wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:52 pm
Living Free wrote:
Thu Oct 18, 2018 12:42 pm
could consider the vanguard S&P 500 index fund for a US stock index
Because I have VFINX, the vanguard 500 index, in our Roth IRAs this would create a wash sale.
How would that create a wash sale?

crit
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:54 pm

Re: TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by crit » Thu Oct 18, 2018 3:07 pm

One could figure out how to wait until 30 days have passed, too.
This is true, but because the market generally does rise, it's the first period after a purchase that offers the most likely chances for losses. S&P500 was down ~4% at times today, so.

I'd work your Roth to allow you to swap into S&P 500
I had not considered that, but yes, we could move to some kind of balanced fund there.

Holding same funds in Roth won’t be an issue in future if you disable auto reinvestment there.
Also a good idea, thanks. We tend to do the contribution all at once, so this is one possible solution.

VTCLX looks reasonably good, albeit without an exact ETF equivalent. Thanks.

crit
Posts: 447
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:54 pm

Re: TLH - mutual fund partner trios?

Post by crit » Tue Oct 23, 2018 9:35 am

Since today looks like I'll end up TLHing again (two weeks after previous TLH), I've been looking through VG mutual funds.

I already use VFWAX and VTIAX. As a third fund, I will likely use one of
VTMGX, developed international, ER 0.07
VEUSX, EU funds, ER 0.1
VPADX, Pacific index, ER 0.1

I already use VTSAX and VLCAX, and have VFIAX in our Roth IRAs, so I will use
VTCLX, tax-managed large cap, ER 0.09
VVIAX, value index large cap, ER 0.05
VIGAX, growth index large cap, ER 0.05

There is also the social index, VFTSX, 0.2; Dividend appreciation VDADX 0.08; and VHDYX, the high-dividend yield, 0.15

Thoughts on any of these are appreciated.

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