VTSMX vs VITSX

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krishnam
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:12 am

VTSMX vs VITSX

Post by krishnam » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:23 pm

The three-fund portfolio suggests the following three funds:
Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSMX)
Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund (VGTSX)
Vanguard Total Bond Market Fund (VBMFX)

However, if VTSMX is unavailable for investment from my account, can VITSX be considered an equivalent fund?
If both are total stock market index funds, why are there two funds? Are these weighted differently? If so, what is the best way to select a fund?

Silk McCue
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Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 7:11 pm

Re: VTSMX vs VITSX

Post by Silk McCue » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:29 pm

I Googled VITSX and found the following: Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Institutional Shares (VITSX)

Just a different class of the same fund.

Cheers

DesertDiva
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Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2018 12:49 pm

Re: VTSMX vs VITSX

Post by DesertDiva » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:32 pm

Yes, the same fund - different classes. VITSX has a minimum investment of $5,000,000, which suggests to me that this is a fund made available to you in an employer-sponsored account (e.g., 401k or 403b) and has lower costs.

Chrono Triggered
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:55 pm

Re: VTSMX vs VITSX

Post by Chrono Triggered » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:33 pm

VITSX are institutional shares, VTSMX are investor shares, and VTSAX are admiral shares of the total stock market index fund.

Are all essentially the same exact thing, except for the expense ratios. VITSX is the cheapest and is usually only found in company plans, thanks to the hefty minimum investment. VTSAX is slightly more expensive, and VTSMX is the most expensive. "Expensive" doesn't carry much weight in this scenario, however, because the differences between the three are so small it's not going to make a noticeable difference.

So, in short, if you have access to VITSX, use that for your domestic equity.

krishnam
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:12 am

Re: VTSMX vs VITSX

Post by krishnam » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:42 pm

Thanks. That clarifies my question. Presumably, FSIVX and FTIPX (recommended at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio) are also equivalent, except the former has a cheaper expense ratio?

Chrono Triggered
Posts: 46
Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:55 pm

Re: VTSMX vs VITSX

Post by Chrono Triggered » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:48 pm

Actually, there is a difference between those two. FTIPX includes emerging markets and small caps, and FSIVX does not, making it a more complete fund. I would go with FTIPX.

Discussion from when this fund was first announced: viewtopic.php?t=194213

krishnam
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Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:12 am

Re: VTSMX vs VITSX

Post by krishnam » Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:58 pm

There are only four funds in my retirement account that are international: RNPGX, FPMAX, FSIVX, OANIX. Which one is recommended from this list for the three-fund portfolio? Also, for bonds, these are the only available funds: BRHYX, FSITX, MWTIX, VBIRX. Apart from these, there are less than 10 funds across (small cap, mid-cap and specialty)

Should I still persist with the three-fund portfolio or just invest 100% in VITSX (since I have separate accounts elsewhere for other assets)?

averagedude
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Re: VTSMX vs VITSX

Post by averagedude » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:10 pm

I would say that having access to VITSX is a sweet deal. It has a cheaper expense ratio than VTSMX or VTSAX. My opinion all are a sweet deal. These are the costs on a million dollar portfolio.
VTSMX 0.14% $1400 a year
VTSAX 0.04% $400 a year
VINIX 0.35% $350 a year
An Edward Jones fund on the first year, including expenses and a front end load, would cost you on a million dollar portfolio at an expense rate of 0.35% and a 5.75% load is
$60,798.75
OUCH

TropikThunder
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Re: VTSMX vs VITSX

Post by TropikThunder » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:24 pm

krishnam wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:58 pm
There are only four funds in my retirement account that are international: RNPGX, FPMAX, FSIVX, OANIX. Which one is recommended from this list for the three-fund portfolio? Also, for bonds, these are the only available funds: BRHYX, FSITX, MWTIX, VBIRX. Apart from these, there are less than 10 funds across (small cap, mid-cap and specialty)

Should I still persist with the three-fund portfolio or just invest 100% in VITSX (since I have separate accounts elsewhere for other assets)?
You will get better answers if you don't make readers look up the tickers. :wink:

Also, as a former teacher, I would suggest that you look up those four Int'l funds (google the ticker symbol and look at the Morningstar page for each fund) and see what kinds of stocks they hold and what index they follow (if they even follow one), and based on that, try and decide which one best matches the three fund recommendation for a "Total International Stock Market" fund. Then come back and you will be able to ask more specific questions. Hint: two of them are index funds, two of them are not. And one of them has 50% of its holdings in US companies.
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Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and you feed him for a lifetime.

jalbert
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Re: VTSMX vs VITSX

Post by jalbert » Wed Jul 11, 2018 6:45 pm

krishnam wrote:
Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:58 pm
There are only four funds in my retirement account that are international: RNPGX, FPMAX, FSIVX, OANIX. Which one is recommended from this list for the three-fund portfolio? Also, for bonds, these are the only available funds: BRHYX, FSITX, MWTIX, VBIRX. Apart from these, there are less than 10 funds across (small cap, mid-cap and specialty)

Should I still persist with the three-fund portfolio or just invest 100% in VITSX (since I have separate accounts elsewhere for other assets)?
You can use either plan. FSITX is described: The investment seeks to provide investment results that correspond to the aggregate price and interest performance of the debt securities in the Bloomberg Barclays U.S. Aggregate Bond Index. It has a low expense ratio of .04%. It is virtually equivalent to VBMFX VBTLX the Vanguard fund tracking the same index.

FSIVX is a developed markets index fund and FPMAX is an emerging markets index fund. You can either just hold FSIVX for int’l or incorporate emerging markets with the second fund. Either way you will miss Canada equities, which won’t make a big difference in performance. About 75% FSIVX and 25% FPMAX would simulate a total int’l equity holding.

As an example, an index fund portfolio that is 40% bonds and with stocks that are 40% int’l 60% US could be:

36% VITSX
18% FSIVX
6% FPMAX
40% FSITX

This is a very good 401K plan with low cost options.
Last edited by jalbert on Fri Jul 13, 2018 5:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Index fund investor since 1987.

krishnam
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jul 10, 2018 9:12 am

Re: VTSMX vs VITSX

Post by krishnam » Wed Jul 11, 2018 7:04 pm

Thanks a lot. That was very helpful.

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