Is this all investing is?

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jb1
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Is this all investing is?

Post by jb1 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:18 am

Hey all,

Currently 27, single, very frugal and pretty much invest 60% of my income. Been investing for 2 years and I have ~45k in a 2 fund portfolio of US market and Int market, with ~25k in a Roth IRA of Target Retirement. Hoping by the end of the year to max out the IRA contributions as well as add 5k to my 2 fund portfolio. At work I have a Simple IRA that is also maxed to whatever is matched. I also have 1 share of Amazon and 3 shares of Apple (peanuts)

Im also looking to get property this summer, I live in North Carolina and property is very cheap, I would have my 2 friends live with me to pay off the mortgage.

I deep down feel like Im not living sometimes, I rarely go out to eat, rarely buy clothes, rarely do anything that I would find unnecessary. My long term goal is to be financially free by 40, have 3 properties in which I can all rent out, and as silly as it sounds, use the income from the properties and dividends to get a Nissan GTR. I know this may seem foolish, but this is something Ive wanted since I was 19, and is the reason I am so frugal.

Older, wiser BHs, am I on the right track? I know I havent experienced a bear market, but would you say Im on the right track?

petulant
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by petulant » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:26 am

Maybe cut your savings rate to 50% of income and go enjoy a steak dinner somewhere to celebrate.

sailaway
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by sailaway » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:38 am

There are many things that aren't necessary that don't cost much money. Go for a walk, swim at the lake, go to a Meetup, volunteer...

What is the point of financial independence if you aren't enjoying your life? Whether it is being useful or having fun, you need to be doing something.

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BL
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by BL » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:39 am

Don't give up on living your life while you are saving so (too?) much. It is also important to enjoy life, so maybe set aside a certain amount regularly to be used on something you enjoy, whether that be eating out, traveling, spending time with friends, whatever, yes, even the car (although things may not give as much joy as experiences.) For example, you could go camping at a lovely place without spending a lot of money. Having money does not necessarily bring happiness.

Having a few months of emergency funds available can be a lifeline in case of unexpected events.

It sounds like you know how to save and buy low-ER index funds as suggested in this little pdf:
https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf

jb1
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by jb1 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:43 am

BL wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:39 am
Don't give up on living your life while you are saving so (too?) much. It is also important to enjoy life, so maybe set aside a certain amount regularly to be used on something you enjoy, whether that be eating out, traveling, spending time with friends, whatever, yes, even the car (although things may not give as much joy as experiences.) For example, you could go camping at a lovely place without spending a lot of money. Having money does not necessarily bring happiness.

Having a few months of emergency funds available can be a lifeline in case of unexpected events.

It sounds like you know how to save and buy low-ER index funds as suggested in this little pdf:
https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
Thank you all for the responses, and yes Ive read that PDF numerous times. Maybe its time for me to get new running shoes :D

IngognitoUSA
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by IngognitoUSA » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:51 am

Youth is wasted on the young.

You will never be young again, remember to have a good time and make memories.

averagedude
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by averagedude » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:54 am

I admire your desire for becoming financially free by 40, but happiness should also be important also. I believe you can achieve both with the right mindset. Could be wrong, but i feel certain that having a Nissan high performance car will not make you happy.

Monster99
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by Monster99 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:08 am

So..... When you hit 40 and are FI, what are you going to do for the next 50-55 years? If you don't live and enjoy life now, it gets more difficult when you are in your 60's and 70's...

z3r0c00l
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by z3r0c00l » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:15 am

Travel to other parts of the country/world. It will change your outlook on life.

MrPotatoHead
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by MrPotatoHead » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:51 pm

I get retiring early but...

Exactly what is the point of living at such a frugal level that you feel an emptiness inside you? Do you intend to greatly increase your spend when you retire? Otherwise doesn't retirement essentially means you will continue to live at the same level and simply feel emptiness until you die?

I do not totally equate spending with happiness, but apparently you feel you are missing out on life. That is just very sad. I could regale you with tawdry tales of my misspent youth, only it was not misspent, but very, very tawdry and I revel in the memory.

My advice, live. If spending a bit more enables you to feel alive, then that is simply the price of admission to happiness.

ytm
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by ytm » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:43 pm

MrPotatoHead wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:51 pm

My advice, live. If spending a bit more enables you to feel alive, then that is simply the price of admission to happiness.
+1 "You're just a young kid. What are you doin' here? You oughta be out in a convertible, why – bird-doggin' chicks . . ." R. P. McMurphy - Cuckoo's Nest.

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:49 pm

is that all there is? Peggy Lee answered that one a while back:
Is that all there is, is that all there is
If that's all there is my friends, then let's keep dancing
Let's break out the booze and have a ball
If that's all there is

source: https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... 1XjSJ72saw
"Invest we must." -- Jack Bogle | “The purpose of investing is not to simply optimise returns and make yourself rich. The purpose is not to die poor.” -- William Bernstein

bloom2708
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by bloom2708 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:52 pm

Disconnect happiness (or the feeling of) with buying stuff.

The sooner the better.

As a test back off savings a bit and direct spending to clothes, electronics, car fund, etc.

See what the impact on happiness and contentment is.
"We are here not to please but to provoke thoughtfulness" Unknown Boglehead

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whodidntante
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by whodidntante » Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:58 pm

Some people enjoy being frugal and gaining financial independence early in life. But I think retiring at 40 for a self-made person of modest means is too aggressive, and will require too much sacrifice in your current and future lifestyle. Be smart with your money, but not so smart that life lacks seasoning.

2015
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by 2015 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:01 pm

jb1 wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:18 am
Hey all,

Currently 27, single, very frugal and pretty much invest 60% of my income. Been investing for 2 years and I have ~45k in a 2 fund portfolio of US market and Int market, with ~25k in a Roth IRA of Target Retirement. Hoping by the end of the year to max out the IRA contributions as well as add 5k to my 2 fund portfolio. At work I have a Simple IRA that is also maxed to whatever is matched. I also have 1 share of Amazon and 3 shares of Apple (peanuts)

Im also looking to get property this summer, I live in North Carolina and property is very cheap, I would have my 2 friends live with me to pay off the mortgage.

I deep down feel like Im not living sometimes, I rarely go out to eat, rarely buy clothes, rarely do anything that I would find unnecessary. My long term goal is to be financially free by 40, have 3 properties in which I can all rent out, and as silly as it sounds, use the income from the properties and dividends to get a Nissan GTR. I know this may seem foolish, but this is something Ive wanted since I was 19, and is the reason I am so frugal.

Older, wiser BHs, am I on the right track? I know I havent experienced a bear market, but would you say Im on the right track?
I see nothing foolish or silly about you. To the contrary, you appear to exhibit qualities that benefit greatly from compounding over time and which are the bedrock of accomplishment and high performance.

It's good to remember that first order thinking generally involves content, while second order thinking often involves context. Content relates to what you do, while context relates to not only why, but to initial, secondary, and unintentional consequences of your actions. Content/context have other meanings/implications but those are not as relevant here.

The context of what you are doing contains many positives, chief among them is you are creating a rational and proper relationship with money. Beyond this, the competencies you are building are the building blocks of success, regardless of endeavor. Such competencies include, but are not limited to, self-discipline, self-mastery, self-control, and responsibility. Secondary competencies include ambition, frugality, modesty, curiosity, patience, and delayed gratification. Any one of these competencies predict future success, together they amount to a powerhouse of expanding ability.

You're self-awareness in recognizing you may be overreaching with frugality at this time is also to be commended. The key in all endeavors is balance, and perhaps what you're internal voice is telling you is that you would like a little more balance with regard to frugality and investing in the future. Perhaps it might be helpful to think about what action you could take that could satisfy this desire for balance, such as treating yourself in reward for you impressive accomplishments outlined above.

Success is almost entirely an internal game. As such, you are definitely on the right track.

Rus In Urbe
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by Rus In Urbe » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:11 pm

Give yourself a pat on the back for being disciplined and organized, and for taking care of your financial life. But....

Why are you here on earth? It seems to me you are not asking yourself this question, or finding an answer that is satisfying.

You will achieve your financial goals because you are on the right path, but something in you says, is that enough? Not it's not enough. Some people find their personal mission in religion, in service to others, in educating themselves (travel or extensive reading), in bettering their own community, in mentoring the young, in loving another human being, in having and raising children, in epicureanism (read Lucretius if that appeals to you).

Get serious about yourself---your real self, you as a person. What can you achieve in a lifetime besides early retirement.

Is this all investing is? Yes, that is all it is----it is only the first step to gain security and make other, more important things possible. Investing is not the meaning of life. For that, you'll have to dig a little deeper.

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corn18
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by corn18 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:13 pm

My wife and I have adopted the Hunter S. Thompson approach:

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”

This is on a plaque over our pantry.

frugalmama
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by frugalmama » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:19 pm

I entirely get this. I was much like you in my early life. I recommend figuring out what makes you really happy. The point of FI is so that you can lead the happiest and most purposeful life possible. That means different things to different people. Money doesn't bring happiness though and neither does financial freedom. You have do do that yourself so if you aren't happy figure out why. Some of the world's poorest people are the happiest. If you are wanting to FIRE, why? If you just want to be FI, fine, but what do you plan to do...i.e. how is that going to change your life? Maybe a change into a low paying career that is very rewarding or maybe you want to travel or hike all the major trails. Figure out your goals and remember that things will change and you will see things differently later in life. Make sure you are living now as even at 40, you will not be the same as you are in your 20s. Savings is good, and we still save a very high percentage of our income, but if you are feeling deprived because you are not truly living, live a little more as you only have one life and money gets you there. It isn't the end all.

Doctor Rhythm
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by Doctor Rhythm » Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:39 pm

Financial independence + multiple homes by age 40 is a really, really ambitious goal for someone in their mid-20s, unless you have 1%-er range income (which I assume you don't based on statement you're investing 60% of your income and have $70K saved up after 2 years). If you really want to achieve those goals, short of some kind of windfall, I don't think you have any option but to live frugally.

Consider also that everything might change in the next few years - marriage, children, hopefully a career that provides enough internal validation that being financially independent by age 40 doesn't seem that crucial.

Dottie57
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by Dottie57 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:05 pm

IngognitoUSA wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:51 am
Youth is wasted on the young.

You will never be young again, remember to have a good time and make memories.
You can save an appropriate amount and still have a good life. Cut back the savings and have some fun with friends. Save 30-40%. The rest is yours. It really all or nothing with investing and saving.

Good luck and life.

NotWhoYouThink
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:07 pm

Investing should be about as exciting as cleaning the gutters on your house. You have to pay attention to it now and then, either by putting something in place that automatically does the job and then checking now and then that it still works, or by putting a small effort into it a bit more frequently. But when you are just starting out, it shouldn't be taking up much room inside your head. There is a lot more to life than a growing portfolio.

Also, even though compounding is a wonderful thing, it takes time to work its wonders. Staring at it doesn't help. Think decades, not months.

abonder
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by abonder » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:11 pm

corn18 wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:13 pm
My wife and I have adopted the Hunter S. Thompson approach:

“Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in a pretty and well preserved body, but rather to skid in broadside in a cloud of smoke, thoroughly used up, totally worn out, and loudly proclaiming "Wow! What a Ride!”

This is on a plaque over our pantry.
Just wanted to say that I love this. Sometimes seems that the pragmatism that’s so prevalent (and critical to long term success) prevents us from recognizing the finite and unknowable duration of life. Nothing in the quote specifically necessitates the spending of money, but rather just living life a little fuller, in whatever way suits you.

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Sandtrap
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:13 pm

All things in moderation ........ including moderation.....

Lao Moo

Congratulations on your maturity.
Be assured that many your age and beyond feel the same ..... some with only a dollar to their name.

cdu7
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by cdu7 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:23 pm

What’s your dollar value income, depending on what it is you may be saving too much. You are on the right track, but if you feel as if you are ‘starving’ yourself you tend to end up failing the diet as a whole. It’s great to save such a large portion of your income, but don’t feel like you can’t spend some money on things you enjoy because Mr. Money Mustache and/or the money blogger of the month says consumerism is destroying all our souls and living on 20k a year for life is the greatest thing since hunting and gathering.

arsenalfan
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by arsenalfan » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:43 pm

Listen to the Financial Independence podcasts. They will reassure you.
Also minimalism books are pretty good - materialism is not the way to happiness...but you should find things that make you truly happy.
So...GTR not required to cruise the on and off ramps, but maybe a weekend or a week long course on the track.
Not the trappings, but the experiences.

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Pajamas
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by Pajamas » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:46 pm

Strike a balance between enjoying yourself now and delaying gratification for the future.

Make a list of some things you feel deprived of and then try to prioritize them and then choose a few to make reality.

A new pair of running shoes might be a good start as that's a relatively practical item that can make a big difference in the way your feet feel and increase your pleasure when you run. Until you get a new pair, you don't realize how worn out the old ones really were. You can also find some on sale from 6pm.com, the New Balance outlet, etc.

onourway
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by onourway » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:49 pm

Investing should not be all-encompassing during the accumulation years. You should be saving enough to ensure your financial security should you be so fortunate to reach the age where you need to draw it down. But you should not be saving so much that you spend most of your life with saving as the goal in and of itself. You need to live the life you want to live today because you may not have the tomorrow you dream of.

MJS
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by MJS » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:08 pm

Postpone FIRE to 45, and use the next 3-4 years to save for your GTI . Buy it. Go on a road trip, or commute to work for 26 years in a car you love. The best teacher I ever had loved her car, and received great satisfaction from it.
http://legacy.sandiegouniontribune.com/ ... mpala.html

rbaldini
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by rbaldini » Sat Jun 23, 2018 4:45 pm

What do you do after you are 40 and you have the car? Do you have any more longterm goals or aspirations? It sort of seems like you're giving up on life now to achieve a rather (in my view) short-sighted goal only halfway through life. Of course, you shouldn't care what *I* think about your goal - I just wonder if you'll arrive at 40, finally get the car you've been saving for decades to get, and then suddenly have nothing else to do?

gd
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by gd » Sun Jun 24, 2018 6:50 am

ytm wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 1:43 pm
MrPotatoHead wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:51 pm

My advice, live. If spending a bit more enables you to feel alive, then that is simply the price of admission to happiness.
+1 "You're just a young kid. What are you doin' here? You oughta be out in a convertible, why – bird-doggin' chicks . . ." R. P. McMurphy - Cuckoo's Nest.
He needs the car first.
"That's some catch, that Catch-22," he observed.
"It's the best there is," Doc Daneeka agreed.
You've wanted a specific car for 8 years, and are planning your life to buy that car in 13 years? I'd broaden my scope a bit. That first dent is going to hurt.

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knpstr
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by knpstr » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:47 am

Yes, that is all investing is.
However, building wealth is not all there is to life.
Very little is needed to make a happy life; it is all within yourself, in your way of thinking. -Marcus Aurelius

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Cycle
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by Cycle » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:22 am

Stay the course, only thing I would change is to credit card / bonus churn for rewards. You can then fly with points. I did most of my traveling in my 20s in central and South America. It's cheaper than a vacation in the US.

Cars are a collossal waste of money when you are in the accumulation phase, hold off till you are 40 on the GTI. When you are 40 someone will pay you to take a non self driving one off their hands.

Roommates are a great idea, I had one in my 20s. Paid off my mortgage at 33.

Work to get promotions, and you may get there sooner. Make sure those rental properties cash flow with management company fees.

Yooper16
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by Yooper16 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 8:49 am

Dude--- if you want something to do that doesn't have to cost a lot, purchase a good pair of walking shoes and hit the trails in your local/state park system. You might have some gas cost to get there, entry pass(yearly or daily) and the shoes.

Then breathe deep and listen, smell, see whats out there for you to experience. Its gonna cost far less than doctors visit and anti-depressants or the loss of friendships because of your actions.

That's my advise so you can be still be frugal and get back to life.

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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:20 am

MrPotatoHead wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:51 pm
I get retiring early but...

Exactly what is the point of living at such a frugal level that you feel an emptiness inside you? Do you intend to greatly increase your spend when you retire? Otherwise doesn't retirement essentially means you will continue to live at the same level and simply feel emptiness until you die?

I do not totally equate spending with happiness, but apparently you feel you are missing out on life. That is just very sad. I could regale you with tawdry tales of my misspent youth, only it was not misspent, but very, very tawdry and I revel in the memory.

My advice, live. If spending a bit more enables you to feel alive, then that is simply the price of admission to happiness.
This.

OP, you are on the right track, all right--IF your goal is to be a miserable old skinflint at age 50 or 60. Life is meant to be lived. Get after it! And good luck!

3funder
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by 3funder » Sun Jun 24, 2018 10:46 am

sailaway wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:38 am
There are many things that aren't necessary that don't cost much money. Go for a walk, swim at the lake, go to a Meetup, volunteer...

What is the point of financial independence if you aren't enjoying your life? Whether it is being useful or having fun, you need to be doing something.
+1

Dandy
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by Dandy » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:01 pm

You seem to be caught up with saving/investing and not in having a decent life balance. Money/wealth is a means to help enjoy life and to make sure you have necessities for a lifetime. Being frugal doesn't mean becoming a miser who just gets enjoyment from counting his money.

You need to focus a bit on increasing your enjoyment from other than money. It is hard to spend when you have so much emphasis on saving. Been there done that. There is little fear that you will blow your savings more of a concern that you will be rich and unhappy or unfulfilled.

Go for it -- a little at a time --spending wisely and reaching a decent life balance which is as important as savings.

Good luck

HoleInTheAir
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by HoleInTheAir » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:11 pm

You sound a lot like me, OP.

My wife and I are 26, and we have about 2x our gross income saved, and save about 35% of our gross income. Before I met her, I did nothing; never went out, did the same routine every day, but I was very unfulfilled and unhappy, when I had no reason to be. When I met her, it opened my eyes, and while we still save a lot, it's not all I think about anymore.

As an aside, my grandfather and great uncle both lived very frugally their whole life. During their work life, they always said, 'I'll see the country when I retire'. Guess what? They never did anything. You get so used to living frugally for decades, there won't be a big shift to a different lifestyle - it's too ingrained.

If you're not happy, you need to make a change.

jb1
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by jb1 » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:46 pm

Thank you everyone for the replies. They truly brought a smile to my face.

The more I think about it, the more I realize I want to share my journey of life with someone, right now that is missing and has been for a while. Ive been to a new country every year since 2010, it is one of the most unique things about me. I just would love to have someone to grow with and experience life with.

As far as my income, I only make 45k a year after tax. Not much, but as I said I live a very low expense lifestyle.

Will a car bring me happiness though? I have a Nissan 350Z now, have had my fair share of fun in it. But I think the biggest reason for me wanting a GTR is to say "I did it, I beat the odds, I put my mind to something and finally got it" Its the journey for me honestly. I feel like I can almost see the end of the tunnel.

My portfolio is probably top 5% for people my age. I have some friends that dont even know what a stock is that are my age. But yet they enjoy life. Its time for me to take my foot off the pedal. Maybe instead of putting $100 in VTSAX, I can use $60 for new running shoes and put the rest away :happy

MrPotatoHead
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Re: Is this all investing is?

Post by MrPotatoHead » Sun Jun 24, 2018 9:25 pm

Rus In Urbe wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 2:11 pm
Get serious about yourself---your real self, you as a person. What can you achieve in a lifetime besides early retirement.

Is this all investing is? Yes, that is all it is----it is only the first step to gain security and make other, more important things possible. Investing is not the meaning of life. For that, you'll have to dig a little deeper.
This. +1

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