VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

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yousha
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VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by yousha » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:41 pm

Any comments on these two funds. I chose VBIAX over VWELX because of a lower expense ratio and relatively similar performance over 10 years as well as 1,3, and 5 year performance. I would appreciate feedback.

livesoft
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX

Post by livesoft » Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:42 pm

What exactly are these two funds?
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averagedude
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX

Post by averagedude » Fri Jun 22, 2018 5:12 pm

Looks like a red black roulette table spin to me. I would suggest you do a deep dive on the characteristics of each fund to see what you are most comfortable with. VBIAX has a 60/40 allocation, has over 3000 stocks,bonds are mostly government issued, and has no international exposure. VWELX has a 65/35 allocation, only has a bit over 100 stocks, bonds are mostly corporate, and has 14% of its holding in international stocks. Over the long haul i would place my bet on VWELX only because it has more stock in its allocation, more corporate than treasury, and more international exposure. Perhaps the bigger question is the 100 +stocks that the active manager owns, will it outperform the market?

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX

Post by VaR » Fri Jun 22, 2018 6:09 pm

Since most people haven't memorized the symbols of all the Vanguard mutual funds, I thought I'd help the OP by posting the names in order to increase the probability that more people will respond and also to save everyone else's time in looking them up.

VBIAX = Vanguard Balanced Index Fund Admiral Shares, https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... view/vbiax
VWELX = Vanguard Wellington Fund Investor Shares, https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... view/vwelx
Note that to compare admirals to admirals, we should really be looking at:
VWENX = Vanguard Wellington Fund Admiral Shares, https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... view/vwenx
Last edited by VaR on Fri Jun 22, 2018 9:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX

Post by stemikger » Fri Jun 22, 2018 7:46 pm

yousha wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:41 pm
Any comments on these two funds. I chose VBIAX over VWELX because of a lower expense ratio and relatively similar performance over 10 years as well as 1,3, and 5 year performance. I would appreciate feedback.
You chose wisely. Jack Bogle uses this fund to invest the money he gifts to his Grandchildren every year. I own this fund in my Traditional IRA. When I retire from work, I will be putting my entire 401K in this fund and leaving it there forever. It is the ultimate in simplicity and owns the entire U.S. Stock and Bond Market and does all the rebalancing for you. I am in the camp where I don't think international is necessary, so if you feel the same way and this fund is in a tax deferred account, this is all you will ever need.
Choose Simplicity ~ Stay the Course!! ~ Press on Regardless!!!

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by Monster99 » Sat Jun 23, 2018 8:13 am

DW has the Balanced Fund in her IRA and has done quite well for 20 years. very simple and rebalances on its' own....

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by dbr » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:35 am

My opinion is that the decision between these two things is a matter of philosophy. It is a question of whether one operates from a point of view that diversified, low cost, index driven funds are a good idea opposed to the idea that astute management can do something special. The data indicates that in this particular case there is not enough difference to care. You pay your money and you take your choice.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by InvMoney » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:45 am

The Wellington (VWELX Investor Shares) fund has out performed the Balanced Index (VBINX Investor Shares) fund since 2000. Annual performance data follows.

Year / VWELX / VBINX
2017 / 14.72% / 13.89%
2016 / 11.01% / 8.77%
2015 / .06% / .51%
2014 / 9.82% / 9.99%
2013 / 19.66% / 18.10%
2012 / 12.57% / 11.49%
2011 / 3.85% / 4.14%
2010 / 10.94% / 13.13%
2009 / 22.20% / 20.05%
2008 / -22.30% / -22.21%
2007 / 8.34% / 6.16%
2006 / 14.97% / 11.02%
2005 / 6.82% / 4.65%
2004 / 11.17% / 9.33%
2003 / 20.75% / 19.87%
2002 / -6.90% / -9.57%
2001 / 4.19% / -3.02%
2000 / 10.40% / -2.04%
Average / 8.46% / 6.35%

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by livesoft » Sat Jun 23, 2018 12:28 pm

InvMoney wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:45 am
The Wellington (VWELX Investor Shares) fund has out performed the Balanced Index (VBINX Investor Shares) fund since 2000. Annual performance data follows.
[date from 2017 and before]
You conveniently left off the YTD performances of these funds which show that past performance does not indicate future performance.
2018 YTD
-.40% VWENX / VWELX
2.14% VBIAX

Also note that Wellington has a higher percentage of equities and creates more taxes than Balanced Index, so after-tax performance is less than the published performance numbers.
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by InvMoney » Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:05 pm

The data for the 2000 thru 2017 period reveals that:

- Wellington's average annual performance of 8.46% exceeded the Balanced Index fund's average of 6.35% by 2.11%.
- Wellington's average annual return was 33% higher than the Balanced Index fund's average.
- Wellington out performed the Balanced Index fund for 13 of the 18 years - 72% of the time.

It remains to be seen whether Wellington's performance will trail the Balanced Index fund's performance for the entire year (2018). If Wellington continues to trail the Balanced Index fund for the entire year by about 2.5%:

- Wellington's average annual performance for the 2000 thru 2018 period would still be about 2.0% higher than the Balanced Index fund's average.
- Wellington's average annual return would still be nearly 33% higher than the Balanced Index fund's average.
- Wellington would have out performed the Balanced Index fund for 13 of the 19 years - 68% of the time.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by jimb_fromATL » Sat Jun 23, 2018 5:49 pm

InvMoney wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 3:05 pm
The data reveals that for the 2000 thru 2017 period, Wellington's average annual performance of 8.46% exceeded the Balanced Index fund's average performance of 6.35% by 2.11%, and that Wellington out performed the Balanced Index for 13 of the 18 years - 72% of the time.

It remains to be seen whether Wellington's performance will trail the Balanced Index's performance for the entire year (2018). If Wellington continues to trail the Balanced Index fund for the entire year by about 2.5%, Wellington's average annual performance for the 2000 thru 2018 period would still be about 2.0% higher than the Balanced Index's performance, and Wellington would have out performed the Balanced Index for 13 of the 19 years - 68% of the time.
I've lost track of the numbers of funds and very complex and actively managed portfolios that I've seen discussed and touted over many years which upon closer scrutiny turn out NOT to have done as well as Wellington in the long run.

I agree that even if 2018 remains a bad year, Wellington will have outperformed Vanguard's Index Fund over the long run. And there's nothing to suggest that it won't recover quickly and continue to do well like it has done so many times over many decades.

Incidentally, IMO when you're comparing funds, the "growth of $10K" long term returns for a lump sum that is used on so many sites can be somewhat misleading. I don't know of anybody who invested one big lump sum for retirement at the beginning of their career and never added anything else. Even if they did, a few months one way or the other before or after a peak or valley could make a huge difference in the end result.

So I think it makes more sense to look at how funds compare with periodic contributions, such as monthly for a 401(k) type fund, or perhaps yearly for IRAs.

Portfolio Visualizer is one of the few online sites I know of that does let you compare total returns of funds with periodic contributions. It also lets you compare your own portfolios and other funds with popular portfolios including the Bogleheads 3-fund portfolio. It can do rolling averages, and shows worst draw-downs and times required to recover, and bunches of other stuff.

If you register for free, you can also download their very comprehensive reports to your own spreadsheets to further manipulate and compare data. The reports can include annual, monthly and quarterly total returns, too.

Here's how Portfolio Visualizer compares the funds. I've used the investor shares since there are more years of data available for comparison. The Admiral shares will be comparable, but a tiny percentage better because their lower fees. This also includes VFINX (Vanguard's S&P 500 index fund for comparison.
LINK TO PORTFOLIO VISUALIZER

Code: Select all

 Portfolio Analysis Results (Oct 1992 - May 2018)						
Balance for DCA with $400 per month contributions						
Fund 	 Balance	TWRR	MWRR	Best Yr	Worst Yr	Max. Drawdown
VBINX	  $359,037 	8.14%	7.49%	28.64%	-22.21%	      -32.57% 
						 
VWELX	  $429,143 	9.42%	8.63%	32.92%	-22.30%	      -32.53% 
						 
VFINX	  $441,708 	9.61%	8.81%	37.45%	-37.02%	       -50.97% 
						 
jimb
Last edited by jimb_fromATL on Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Topic Author
yousha
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by yousha » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:05 pm

The Average Annual Returns as of 5/31/2018 for a period of 10 years is the following: VBIAX is 7.37% VWELX is 7.45%. Not much of a difference. Where am I going wrong. These figures are from Vanguard that lists returns for all of its funds on their website.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by livesoft » Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:08 pm

yousha wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:05 pm
Where am I going wrong.
Two ways you are going wrong:

1. Past performance is not indicative of future results.

2. Taxes.
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yousha
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by yousha » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:04 pm

I don't expect past performance and or taxes to predict the future. I am only interested in 10 year past results.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by averagedude » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:35 pm

A 65% percent stock allocation fund should outperform a 60 percent stock allocation fund. Experts say that your allocation between stocks and bonds determine for the most part the long term performance of your portfolio..

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by yousha » Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:39 pm

averagedude wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 7:35 pm
A 65% percent stock allocation fund should outperform a 60 percent stock allocation fund. Experts say that your allocation between stocks and bonds determine for the most part the long term performance of your portfolio..
I agree. Given the allocation piece, one would expect Wellington to do better in the 10 year performance mentioned in an earlier post by myself, than it did. Comments.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by jimb_fromATL » Sat Jun 23, 2018 9:12 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:08 pm
yousha wrote:
Sat Jun 23, 2018 6:05 pm
Where am I going wrong.
Two ways you are going wrong:

1. Past performance is not indicative of future results.
Lacking a working crystal ball, what else can we go by? Past performance is all we have. Virtually everything we know about how stocks and bonds (and mutual funds) work; all the technical indicators and predictors are based on how they have worked in the past.
2. Taxes.
The OP did not mention whether they're investing in taxable accounts where tax efficiency might matter, or in tax-advantaged retirement accounts like 401(k)s and IRAs where the only thing that really matters is the total return.

In either case, according to Vanguard's own data (for a lump sum) for the last 10 years and less, Wellington is a bit better where tax efficiency does not matter, and still has a tiny but almost insignificant historical advantage where taxes on distributions and turnover might matter. For periodic contributions yearly, my calculations shown further down in this post suggest that Wellington's historically greater total gain might do a little better yet.

The table below summarizes Vanguard's10 year and less performance data on VBINX and VWELX (for a lump sum)

Code: Select all

Returns before taxes                                         					
	1-yr	3-yr	5-yr	10-yr	since inception
VBINX	8.62%	6.51%	8.37%	7.43%	8.14%
VWELX	8.82%	7.42%	8.94%	7.73%	8.28%
Returns after taxes on distributoins and sales of fund shares					
	1-yr	3-yr	5-yr	10-yr	
VBINX	5.25%	4.80%	6.35%	5.76%	
VWELX	6.10%	5.38%	6.59%	5.86%


Here's another summary of total performance data. This is calculated from yearly total returns, using YTD as of 6/22/2018 for 2018's return, and assuming being in a tax-deferred account:
  • CAGR (Compound Annual Growth Rate) or APY for a single lump sum and APY for DCA (Dollar Cost Averaging) with annual contributions:

    Vanguard Balanced Index Inv (VBINX): For 26 years from 1993 through 2018 VBINX has had a CAGR of 7.918% for a lump sum. The APY for DCA with annual contributions has been 7.287%. For the last 19 years the lump CAGR has been 5.551% and DCA contributions have averaged an APY of 6.94%.

    VG Wellington: For 50 years from 1969 through 2018 VWELX has had a CAGR of 9.462% for a lump sum. The APY for DCA with annual contributions has been 10.238%. For the last 19 years the lump CAGR has been 7.466% and DCA contributions have averaged an APY of 7.755%.

    VG S&P 500 Index: For 42 years from 1977 through 2018 VFINX has had a CAGR of 10.895% for a lump sum. The APY for DCA with annual contributions has been 10.783%. For the last 19 years the lump CAGR has been 5.218% and DCA contributions have averaged an APY of 8.509%.
To put the funds in perspective with dollar amounts for 10 years (again using 2018 YTD as if it were for the whole year) this shows results for a lump sum for 10 years, and results for yearly contributions of $4000 per year -- as one might do in an IRA.

Note that this is for different amounts. It is not a comparison of lump sum versus DCA of the same money over time.
  • VBINX: 10 yr lump sum APY= 9.9526%; $10,000 lump 10 years = $25,826.
    DCA APY= 8.6168%; $4000/yr 10yr = $64,813.

    VWELX: 10 yr lump sum APY= 10.206%; $10,000 lump 10 years = $26,427.
    DCA APY= 8.7948%; $4000/yr 10yr = $65,472.

    VFINX: 10 yr lump sum APY= 13.94%; $10,000 lump 10 years = $36,877.
    DCA APY= 12.779%; $4000/yr 10yr = $82,206.
Not a hekkuvva lot of difference between Vanguard's balanced fund and Wellington, but a lot of difference if you were willing to gamble it all in the S&P 500.


jimb

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by averagedude » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:05 pm

Lets not forget that there is a possibility that bonds will not perform like they did in the past 30 years. Experts may be wrong, but it sure seems like everyone is awful excited about 10 year 3 percent yields. I think the party is over for bonds, but that doesnt mean you shouldnt have them in your portfolio.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by JBTX » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:26 pm

Wellington has had a great run and is a good fund. It seems to be set up that it performs well in low/declining interest rate and inflation environments. Big cap stocks and corporate bonds just slightly lower on the quality scale The one brief time it underperformed was in late 70s when inflation and interest rates were high.

My guess is going forward it's performance going forward will be more muted, but having said that I have a decent amount in that fund.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by yousha » Sat Jun 23, 2018 10:59 pm

Thank you all!

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by columbia » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:48 am

I think they are both outstanding funds.

Perhaps just split your money between the two of them, to minimize the chance of future regret (over having made the “wrong” - and that can’t be known now - choice).

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by TheTimeLord » Sun Jun 24, 2018 7:51 am

It seems to me that VBIAX is the most BH of the two, but it is really six of one or a half dozen of the other. That said I have recently purchased VBIAX to simplify portfolio management going forward.
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by tjsnow » Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:14 pm

I am moving to VBIAX from VWENX based on recent performance. VWENX has too much financial, too little tech, too much int'l, and too long duration on bond portfolio. VBIAX is moer of a LCB fund vs LCV, 60/40. Right now it is beating VWENX with less equity exposure.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by Kevin8696 » Mon Sep 03, 2018 10:35 am

yousha wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:41 pm
Any comments on these two funds. I chose VBIAX over VWELX because of a lower expense ratio and relatively similar performance over 10 years as well as 1,3, and 5 year performance. I would appreciate feedback.
Yousha,

VBIAX is a very good choice.

It's basically a 60/40 allocation of Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX), and Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund (VBTLX). Low expense ratio (0.07% vs 0.25% for VWELX) with broad market coverage in stocks and bonds, and tax efficient.

If this investment is in a taxable account then taxes DO matter. For example...

As of 6/30/18, the 10-yr results were as follows: VBIAX 7.96% versus VWELX 7.99%

Per the Vanguard site, the 10-yr results after taxes on distributions were as follows: VBIAX 7.24% versus VWELX 6.65%

It's not how much you make, it's how much you keep that counts !!

Good Luck !!
Last edited by Kevin8696 on Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by TheTimeLord » Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:35 pm

Just surprised VBIAX (Vanguard Balanced Index) doesn't get more play here. Maybe it is the lack of International and Emerging Market exposure but I really like it. Personally not a fan of Target Date or Lifestyle Funds.
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by BionicBillWalsh » Thu Jan 03, 2019 12:59 am

It is more Boglehead than many on here on willing to admit.

The invest for forever; forget it, retire, and count your money crew are actually few and far between. The hoardes can't stand not re-balancing, or finding the next best 3, 4, or actual 6 fund portfolio for market timing...or feeble attempts at it, despite denying it on this website.

With the balanced index fund, you're getting a facsimile of total U.S. Stock Market, and Total U.S. Bond market. It is far more diverse than Wellington and maintains an approximate ratio of 60/40 without the individual investor doing a single thing.

And Jack Bogle puts his money in it. He does not to my knowledge put money in international stocks and or bonds.

So ultimately, if you're looking for a diverse, low cost index fund with a low expense ratio and an asset allocation of 60% U.S. stock market and 40% U.S bond market, this is your fund.
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by RipVan55 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 8:21 am

tjsnow wrote:
Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:14 pm
I am moving to VBIAX from VWENX based on recent performance. VWENX has too much financial, too little tech, too much int'l, and too long duration on bond portfolio. VBIAX is moer of a LCB fund vs LCV, 60/40. Right now it is beating VWENX with less equity exposure.
I have recently been looking very closely at both VBIAX and VWENX and my conclusion was opposite of yours.

I really can't find any multi year time period where the total return of VBIAX isn't beaten by VWENX unless one considers the results in 2018 as statistically significant where they delivered total returns of -2.9% and -3.3%, respectively. In the couple of years where VBIAX does outperform, it is by a tiny margin but overall, VWENX historically has significantly done better...much better. Who knows going forward.

VWENX bonds have an effective duration of 6.4 years compared to 6.0 for VBIAX. In fact, these are both medium or intermediate exposures. Where they differ is the type of bonds. One holds investment grade Corporate and the other holds Sovereign bonds. VWENX gas 65% vs 60% equity exposure.

WRT financials, VWENX holds 22.7% vs 19.7%.....not much of a difference. VWENX is indeed underweight information technology compared to VBIAX butit does give some international exposure in return. Is this a good tradeoff going forward?

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by SpringMan » Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:51 am

Would not it be expected that a 65/35 fund (VWELX) would do better than a 60/40 fund (VBIAX) when stocks go up and do worse when stocks go down. I would not use either in a taxable account. Not a fund I use but Tax Managed Balanced fund would make more sense in a taxable account than of the other two, its bonds are tax exempt.
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by mongstradamus » Thu Jan 03, 2019 3:55 pm

SpringMan wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:51 am
Would not it be expected that a 65/35 fund (VWELX) would do better than a 60/40 fund (VBIAX) when stocks go up and do worse when stocks go down. I would not use either in a taxable account. Not a fund I use but Tax Managed Balanced fund would make more sense in a taxable account than of the other two, its bonds are tax exempt.
Wellington would still beat a 65/35 Vtsax/VBTLX combo. At least according to portfolio visualizer that would be the case.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by RipVan55 » Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:11 pm

SpringMan wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:51 am
Would not it be expected that a 65/35 fund (VWELX) would do better than a 60/40 fund (VBIAX) when stocks go up and do worse when stocks go down. I would not use either in a taxable account. Not a fund I use but Tax Managed Balanced fund would make more sense in a taxable account than of the other two, its bonds are tax exempt.
5% in equity exposure would not explain VWELX's more than 1% additional CAGR per year over VBIAX. The type of equities and bonds explains it.

Paying capital gains on VWELX distributions could be preferable to paying taxes on IRA or 401K withdrawals during retirement depending upon individual circumstances.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by MrG » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:27 pm

One thing to consider is that you can get into VBIAX for $3K to start where the Wellington VWENX requires $50K to start.
So if just starting out you would have to compare VWELX to VBIAX until you build up your account.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by lakpr » Wed Jan 09, 2019 4:48 pm

Wellington fund also has Investor share class for $3000 minimum, with ticker VWELX.
MrG wrote:
Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:27 pm
One thing to consider is that you can get into VBIAX for $3K to start where the Wellington VWENX requires $50K to start.
So if just starting out you would have to compare VWELX to VBIAX until you build up your account.

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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by grabiner » Wed Jan 09, 2019 8:25 pm

RipVan55 wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 5:11 pm
SpringMan wrote:
Thu Jan 03, 2019 11:51 am
Would not it be expected that a 65/35 fund (VWELX) would do better than a 60/40 fund (VBIAX) when stocks go up and do worse when stocks go down. I would not use either in a taxable account. Not a fund I use but Tax Managed Balanced fund would make more sense in a taxable account than of the other two, its bonds are tax exempt.
5% in equity exposure would not explain VWELX's more than 1% additional CAGR per year over VBIAX. The type of equities and bonds explains it.

Paying capital gains on VWELX distributions could be preferable to paying taxes on IRA or 401K withdrawals during retirement depending upon individual circumstances.
However, if you use index funds in a taxable account, you can sell them as needed, and pay less in capital-gains tax. If a fund distributes a $10K capital gain, you pay tax on the whole $10K. If you sell $10K of stock for which you paid $5K, you pay capital-gains tax on only $5K, so you have more to spend after withdrawing the same balance.
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watchman1675
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by watchman1675 » Sat May 18, 2019 1:15 pm

I would think anyone contemplating between these 2 funds are considering the ability to weather turbulent market times rather than maximum total return. Looking at a period between the end of 2007 through 2010 specifically March of 2009 would be a better indication of which would be more appropriate for your consideration.

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ruralavalon
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by ruralavalon » Sat May 18, 2019 2:32 pm

yousha wrote:
Fri Jun 22, 2018 4:41 pm
Any comments on these two funds. I chose VBIAX over VWELX because of a lower expense ratio and relatively similar performance over 10 years as well as 1,3, and 5 year performance. I would appreciate feedback.
Both are good funds.

I would use Vanguard Balanced Index Fund Admiral Shares (VBIAX) because I prefer a good index fund over a good actively managed fund. Vanguard Wellington Fund Investor Shares (VWELX) is,an actively managed fund.
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InvMoney
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by InvMoney » Sat May 18, 2019 3:29 pm

Following is data regarding the annual performance of Wellington compared to Vanguard balanced index funds during bear market years as well for the 4th Quarter 2018.

2000
+10.40% - Wellington (VWELX)
NA - Balanced Index (VBIAX)
-0.88% - LS Moderate Growth (VSMGX)

2001
+4.19% - Wellington (VWELX)
-3.02% - Balanced Index (VBIAX)
-4.48% - LS Moderate Growth (VSMGX)

2002
-6.90% - Wellington (VWELX)
-9.57% - Balanced Index (VBIAX)
-10.32% - LS Moderate Growth (VSMGX)

2008
-22.30% - Wellington (VWELX)
-22.21% - Balanced Index (VBIAX)
-26.50% - LS Moderate Growth (VSMGX)

4Th Q 2018
-6.78% - Wellington (VWELX)
-8.09% - Balanced Index (VBIAX)
-7.42% - LS Moderate Growth (VSMGX)

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changingtimes
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by changingtimes » Sat May 18, 2019 6:54 pm

I split the difference in one IRA and bought 50% of each.

sixtyforty
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Re: VBIAX vs. VWELX [Vanguard Balanced Index vs. Wellington]

Post by sixtyforty » Sun May 19, 2019 10:10 am

Most of the outperformance of VWELX over VBIAX appears to have occurred prior 2008. From 2008 on, they are both pretty close according to PV.

Here is another data point from Mr Bogle himself on the two funds;

When asked what he had in his portfolio...

"My retirement accounts are more like a 50-50 split between stocks and bonds, because of a longer time horizon and because yields on bonds are extremely unattractive right now. The equity side is mostly in Total Stock Market Index (VTSMX), but I still have a little bit in the Wellington Fund (VWELX), which I’ve been investing in for many decades. I don’t ever want to sever that relationship. Bonds in my retirement accounts are about 30 percent Treasuries and 70 percent investment-grade corporates, like the Vanguard Intermediate-Term Corporate Bond Index (VICBX)."

When asked if he contributed to 529 plans for his grandchildren... (NOTE: VWINX is just the investor version of VBAIX)

"We do save a little money for all my grandkids every year, but we just chose the Vanguard Balanced Index Fund (VBINX). It’s about 60 percent stocks, 40 percent bonds, and it’s been wonderful. We give them what we can within annual gift-tax limitations, and put it all into that very tax-efficient fund."
"Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication" - Leonardo Da Vinci

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