Vanguard platform

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Mr.BB
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Vanguard platform

Post by Mr.BB » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:13 pm

I do not have a brokerage account with Vanguard, and I use their old platform; although simple in it's layout, works great for me.
We have my SEP our ROTHS and basic mutual funds (2) with them.
I got an email saying they are retiring the old platform and are transitioning to the new one (which I believe is their brokerage one).
They say "We'd make the transition for you, but we can't unfortunately (regulatory reasons).
Do you think if I do nothing, they won't/ can't make me switch?
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

livesoft
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by livesoft » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:16 pm

Who knows? Maybe they will offer holdouts $100 to switch? :)

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jebmke
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by jebmke » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:17 pm

there are dozens of threads on this already. I switched one account but our joint account is still the old mutual fund. Other than how the statements work, I haven't noticed a huge difference. Some people don't like the brokerage format. I think it depends on how you use the account.
When you discover that you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount.

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cfs
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by cfs » Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:22 pm

Why stay with 19th century stuff, jump to the 21st century and join the FUN. Your money, your portfolio, your decision. Gracias por leer / cfs
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Mr.BB
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by Mr.BB » Sun Jun 03, 2018 4:08 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:16 pm
Who knows? Maybe they will offer holdouts $100 to switch? :)

Ever been on a plane when they ask for volunteers who will get voucher to be bumped?
+1
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

Dandy
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by Dandy » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:03 pm

my TIRA and joint account switched. One difference was in the joint account under the old platform you could have Federal and state taxes withheld on distributions (to avoid or limit estimated taxes for example). When they switched in mid year that option is not available for brokerage accounts and they never let me know.

RickBoglehead
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by RickBoglehead » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:11 pm

Joint accounts can not be TOD on the new platform. Didn't tell us that.

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badbreath
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by badbreath » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:43 pm

If you switch Vanguard saves money which means you save money
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rob
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by rob » Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:59 pm

cfs wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:22 pm
Why stay with 19th century stuff, jump to the 21st century and join the FUN. Your money, your portfolio, your decision. Gracias por leer / cfs
I agree... which is why I an NOT moving until they make me.... I have one acct in the new and wish I'd never done that - they convinced me my issues would be solved and they are not with the added benefit of more issues.
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien

2015
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by 2015 » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:29 pm

rob wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:59 pm
cfs wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:22 pm
Why stay with 19th century stuff, jump to the 21st century and join the FUN. Your money, your portfolio, your decision. Gracias por leer / cfs
I agree... which is why I an NOT moving until they make me.... I have one acct in the new and wish I'd never done that - they convinced me my issues would be solved and they are not with the added benefit of more issues.
Me either. I have no accounts with the new platform and the last thing I'm looking for is "fun" when managing my financial accounts (yes, I know you were being facetious in using that term, cfs :wink: ). The more simplicity I can get (and keep) in my life the better it gets.

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ruralavalon
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by ruralavalon » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:49 pm

cfs wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:22 pm
Why stay with 19th century stuff, jump to the 21st century and join the FUN. Your money, your portfolio, your decision. Gracias por leer / cfs
Because the old way works well for me. I use only Vanguard mutual funds, don't want to use anything else, and so have no need for a brokerage feature.
RickBoglehead wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:11 pm
Joint accounts can not be TOD on the new platform. Didn't tell us that.
Unavailability of Transfer on Death for a joint account is not an improvement.
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Mr.BB
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by Mr.BB » Mon Jun 04, 2018 5:53 pm

2015 wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:29 pm
rob wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 6:59 pm
cfs wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:22 pm
Why stay with 19th century stuff, jump to the 21st century and join the FUN. Your money, your portfolio, your decision. Gracias por leer / cfs
I agree... which is why I an NOT moving until they make me.... I have one acct in the new and wish I'd never done that - they convinced me my issues would be solved and they are not with the added benefit of more issues.
Me either. I have no accounts with the new platform and the last thing I'm looking for is "fun" when managing my financial accounts (yes, I know you were being facetious in using that term, cfs :wink: ). The more simplicity I can get (and keep) in my life the better it gets.
+1
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BigJohn
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by BigJohn » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:40 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:16 pm
Who knows? Maybe they will offer holdouts $100 to switch? :)

Ever been on a plane when they ask for volunteers who will get voucher to be bumped?
While possible, my bet would be that they start charging an annual fee for the old platform at some point.

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ruralavalon
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by ruralavalon » Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:49 pm

BigJohn wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:40 pm
livesoft wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 3:16 pm
Who knows? Maybe they will offer holdouts $100 to switch? :)

fee for less service? been on a plane when they ask for volunteers who will get voucher to be bumped?
While possible, my bet would be that they start charging an annual fee for the old platform at some point.
You may be right.

But a higher fee for less service on the old platform?
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

BigJohn
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by BigJohn » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:53 am

ruralavalon wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:49 pm
You may be right.

But a higher fee for less service on the old platform?
Well, it would fit with VG's philosophy of customers paying for what they use. At some point the old platform will have a few people clinging to it for some benefit (eg faster 1009's). The cost per person will grow. Why shouldn't those people pay for that system and the benefit they see? It's not like you can go to another broker and get the same service as the old platform since it's unique to VG.

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ruralavalon
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by ruralavalon » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:54 am

BigJohn wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:53 am
ruralavalon wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:49 pm
You may be right.

But a higher fee for less service on the old platform?
Well, it would fit with VG's philosophy of customers paying for what they use. At some point the old platform will have a few people clinging to it for some benefit (eg faster 1009's). The cost per person will grow. Why shouldn't those people pay for that system and the benefit they see? It's not like you can go to another broker and get the same service as the old platform since it's unique to VG.
That's why I said "you may be right".
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

livesoft
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by livesoft » Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:57 am

So advice to Vanguard: Delay the old platform 1099s until after the brokerage 1099s are sent out and received.
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ruralavalon
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by ruralavalon » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:29 am

livesoft wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:57 am
So advice to Vanguard: Delay the old platform 1099s until after the brokerage 1099s are sent out and received.
And allow Transfer on Death for jointt accounts on the new platform.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started

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friar1610
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by friar1610 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:43 am

ruralavalon wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:29 am
livesoft wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:57 am
So advice to Vanguard: Delay the old platform 1099s until after the brokerage 1099s are sent out and received.
And allow Transfer on Death for jointt accounts on the new platform.
Maybe I've been blissfully ignorant. What does this mean for my surviving spouse with whom I hold my VG taxable brokerage account jointly? When I die can she still access the account? Absent TOD what hoops does she have to jump through to become the sole owner of the account? What do I need to do now to make it easier for her?
Friar1610

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jhfenton
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by jhfenton » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:53 am

ruralavalon wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:29 am
livesoft wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:57 am
So advice to Vanguard: Delay the old platform 1099s until after the brokerage 1099s are sent out and received.
And allow Transfer on Death for jointt accounts on the new platform.
+1 To me, this is the most inexplicable shortcoming of the new brokerage platform. At some point, when the kids are grown, we're a bit older, and our taxable account is larger, I will have to decide how to address the problem--if Vanguard hasn't fixed it by then.

Obvious solutions:

1. Move the bulk of the taxable assets somewhere with more flexibility.
2. Split the taxable account into his and hers accounts with TOD to each other and contingent TOD to the kids.

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jhfenton
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by jhfenton » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:56 am

friar1610 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:43 am
Maybe I've been blissfully ignorant. What does this mean for my surviving spouse with whom I hold my VG taxable brokerage account jointly? When I die can she still access the account? Absent TOD what hoops does she have to jump through to become the sole owner of the account? What do I need to do now to make it easier for her?
The surviving joint owner is fine when the first owner dies. A certificate of death would be enough to become sole owner. The survivor can then add TODs for the kids or other desired heirs.

The problem arises in the case of simultaneous deaths. At that point, with no TOD, it would fall into your estates and be governed by your wills or your state law of intestate succession.

RickBoglehead
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by RickBoglehead » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:58 am

friar1610 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:43 am
ruralavalon wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:29 am
livesoft wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 9:57 am
So advice to Vanguard: Delay the old platform 1099s until after the brokerage 1099s are sent out and received.
And allow Transfer on Death for jointt accounts on the new platform.
Maybe I've been blissfully ignorant. What does this mean for my surviving spouse with whom I hold my VG taxable brokerage account jointly? When I die can she still access the account? Absent TOD what hoops does she have to jump through to become the sole owner of the account? What do I need to do now to make it easier for her?
It means NOTHING in your example. You die, she gets all the assets as the joint owner, with each having 1/2 of the basis adjusted to your time of death.

Here's where it does mean something. You and your wife go out for a night on the town, and on your way home are tragically killed in a car accident. Due to the simultaneous death, neither of you died first (and usually it's 24 hours that's considered simultaneous anyway). Since Vanguard doesn't allow TOD on joint accounts, there are no listed beneficiaries for this account, so it goes to probate. Not only does that potentially delay disbursement to your heirs, and go to the heirs of your will vs. beneficiaries you might have designated on the account (if different), your estate has to pay the probate court for the value of the assets. That could be many hundred, or many thousands of dollars.

If you had TOD on the account, or an individual account (which it becomes when you die before your wife), and beneficiaries are designated, the assets simply go to the beneficiaries, outside of probate and with no fees.

Two ways around this (besides not dying simultaneously). First, split the assets in half into two individual accounts and name each other as primary beneficiary, and heirs as secondary. Second, setup a Revocable Trust and put the assets in it.

Since the man usually passes away first, you could put the funds with the greatest gains in his account, because then when he passes away the cost gets increased to date of death, and then the wife can sell with no gains.

Edit - Vanguard claims it's a Pennsylvania law issue.
Last edited by RickBoglehead on Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:46 pm, edited 2 times in total.

livesoft
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by livesoft » Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:17 pm

RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:58 am
It means NOTHING in your example. You die, she gets all the assets as the joint owner, with each having 1/2 of the basis adjusted to your time of death.
Or full step-up in some states and not just 1/2.
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friar1610
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Re: Vanguard platform

Post by friar1610 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 3:39 pm

livesoft wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 12:17 pm
RickBoglehead wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:58 am
It means NOTHING in your example. You die, she gets all the assets as the joint owner, with each having 1/2 of the basis adjusted to your time of death.
Or full step-up in some states and not just 1/2.
Someone addressed this in another thread and I asked a follow up question. As I understood the answer, if a married couple is in a community property estate, total of the jointly held assets step up. If not a community property state (as with us in MA), half step up.
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