A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

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jbsmith05
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A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by jbsmith05 » Thu May 24, 2018 8:53 am

I have a TRP brokerage that I don't use much...I have a brokerage and other accts at Fidelity and Vanguard as my main investment houses...then this one TRP.

The TRP all in one fund PREIX - Equity Index 500 at a .21 ER, About $15k. I've been thinking of moving it to VG or Fidelity - either VFIAX (er .04) or FUSVX (er .035).

Is it worth the move - I'm not actively contributing to the TRP fund. My Covered Unrealized Gain is $1050 and Noncovered Unrealized Gain is $2650 - would i be hit with a large tax burden to sell and buy one at FID or VG? I've had it for over a few years with no additions- dividends re-investing.
Last edited by jbsmith05 on Thu May 24, 2018 9:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

Nummerkins
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by Nummerkins » Thu May 24, 2018 8:59 am

Move it. You can do an in-kind ACATS transfer without selling anything. Callneothr Vanguard or Fidelity and they can walk you through it/get the ball rolling.

radiowave
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by radiowave » Thu May 24, 2018 9:03 am

Over time the difference in expense ratios would make it feasible to move the TRP funds now. If you move to Vanguard, consider the total stock fund (VTSAX) to give you mid and small cap exposure as well as large cap.
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jbsmith05
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by jbsmith05 » Thu May 24, 2018 9:05 am

If I do an in-kind transfer doesn't that just move the TRP fund to the other brokerage? To take advantage of the lower ERs I'd need to liquidate and move right? Then buy at FID or VG?

I know how to do the moves - at least from FID's side - it's all automated or at least you do it all online.

knicknut
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by knicknut » Thu May 24, 2018 9:10 am

Depending on your tax bracket, it would take a long time (if ever) to recoup 0.17% ER to relative to realizing a ~30% gain. You'd have 10% less invested going forward. Depending on fees, the in kind transfer may make sense just to reduce the number of investment accounts you have.

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goingup
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by goingup » Thu May 24, 2018 9:24 am

Transferring in-kind to either Fidelity or Vanguard is a good move. It's just simpler to have fewer accounts. Make sure the cost basis comes across too.

Keep the fund. Send dividends to a settlement account for reinvestment in a different index fund. If an opportunity presents to tax loss harvest, sell shares and buy the Vanguard or Fidelity index. I wouldn't sell now and incur the taxes on gains.

jbsmith05
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by jbsmith05 » Thu May 24, 2018 9:30 am

goingup wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 9:24 am
Send dividends to a settlement account for reinvestment in a different index fund.
I never knew you could do this....just found the setting on FID's site. Interesting!

I like the idea of the In-kind transfer and having distributions to go another index....I don't like that it looks like I'll have to pay $50 to transfer.

The harvesting could take a very long time, but I'm unsure of a better option, unless I keep it in TRP.


Is there any advantage TRP has over VG or FID? Gasp - perhaps active managed???

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goingup
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by goingup » Thu May 24, 2018 10:47 am

^$50 to transfer out of TRP? Might be worth it if you want simplification. Otherwise, just keep it.

Advantages at TRP? There are funds that investors like, but by BH standards they're expensive. I used to have an TRP account and still have access to the Morningstar Tools, like Instant X-Ray which is useful. So there's that. :wink:

Snuffycuts99
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by Snuffycuts99 » Thu May 24, 2018 10:54 am

I'm in a similar situation. I have all of my investments with Vanguard with the exception of one IRA at TRP. I've had it there for probably 15 years or so. Just like you, I've considered moving it to Vanguard several times, but haven't pulled the trigger. And mine has a bigger expense ratio than yours...it's their Blue Chip Growth fund. I think the ER is around .70. For now I've decided to keep it there for the excitement...it's my only actively managed fund. And it's not a very large part of my portfolio at all.

jbsmith05
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by jbsmith05 » Thu May 24, 2018 11:56 am

Snuffycuts99 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:54 am
I'm in a similar situation. I have all of my investments with Vanguard with the exception of one IRA at TRP. I've had it there for probably 15 years or so. Just like you, I've considered moving it to Vanguard several times, but haven't pulled the trigger. And mine has a bigger expense ratio than yours...it's their Blue Chip Growth fund. I think the ER is around .70. For now I've decided to keep it there for the excitement...it's my only actively managed fund. And it's not a very large part of my portfolio at all.
Haha too funny, I was just looking at their Blue Chip Growth thinking maybe I'd use it/them as one foray into the active managed arena. I'm fully indexed everywhere else, so this would be somewhat of an experiment.

Consolidation of brokerages would be nice, but I mean 2 vs 3 is not a huge deal, especially since the TRP is very small and just the one fund.

Sounds like the sake of consolidation is the only value here which will cost me at min $50, I suppose its possible to get out of the TRP fund over the years - tax loss harvest or some similar strategy.

jbsmith05
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by jbsmith05 » Thu May 24, 2018 11:58 am

goingup wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:47 am
^$50 to transfer out of TRP? Might be worth it if you want simplification. Otherwise, just keep it.

Advantages at TRP? There are funds that investors like, but by BH standards they're expensive. I used to have an TRP account and still have access to the Morningstar Tools, like Instant X-Ray which is useful. So there's that. :wink:
are these tools within the TRP site or through morningstar directly?

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goingup
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by goingup » Thu May 24, 2018 4:32 pm

jbsmith05 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 11:58 am
goingup wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:47 am
^$50 to transfer out of TRP? Might be worth it if you want simplification. Otherwise, just keep it.

Advantages at TRP? There are funds that investors like, but by BH standards they're expensive. I used to have an TRP account and still have access to the Morningstar Tools, like Instant X-Ray which is useful. So there's that. :wink:
are these tools within the TRP site or through morningstar directly?
Available on TRP site. Check the site map. I think they're called Portfolio Tools.

Snuffycuts99
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by Snuffycuts99 » Thu May 24, 2018 5:57 pm

jbsmith05 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 11:56 am
Snuffycuts99 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:54 am
I'm in a similar situation. I have all of my investments with Vanguard with the exception of one IRA at TRP. I've had it there for probably 15 years or so. Just like you, I've considered moving it to Vanguard several times, but haven't pulled the trigger. And mine has a bigger expense ratio than yours...it's their Blue Chip Growth fund. I think the ER is around .70. For now I've decided to keep it there for the excitement...it's my only actively managed fund. And it's not a very large part of my portfolio at all.
Haha too funny, I was just looking at their Blue Chip Growth thinking maybe I'd use it/them as one foray into the active managed arena. I'm fully indexed everywhere else, so this would be somewhat of an experiment.

Consolidation of brokerages would be nice, but I mean 2 vs 3 is not a huge deal, especially since the TRP is very small and just the one fund.

Sounds like the sake of consolidation is the only value here which will cost me at min $50, I suppose its possible to get out of the TRP fund over the years - tax loss harvest or some similar strategy.
TRP is a very good company IMHO. If you're a person looking for active management, I think they're great. The fees aren't that bad for active management. I started with them years before I adopted the Boglehead philosophy. Just be careful you're not chasing recent returns with the Blue Chip Fund. It's been off the charts the past few years...but that's because of the what the big tech names have done. If/when they come crashing down, the returns won't look so nice :|

jbsmith05
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by jbsmith05 » Thu May 24, 2018 6:02 pm

Snuffycuts99 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 5:57 pm


TRP is a very good company IMHO. If you're a person looking for active management, I think they're great. The fees aren't that bad for active management. I started with them years before I adopted the Boglehead philosophy. Just be careful you're not chasing recent returns with the Blue Chip Fund. It's been off the charts the past few years...but that's because of the what the big tech names have done. If/when they come crashing down, the returns won't look so nice :|
I think I was looking at Blue Chip Growth because I have Fidelity's version in my 401 - the name being familiar to me probably drew me to it.

and yeah my BCG has been off the charts in recent years as well. Infact a comparison between TRP and FIDs version is nearly the same.

Snuffycuts99
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by Snuffycuts99 » Thu May 24, 2018 6:05 pm

jbsmith05 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 6:02 pm
Snuffycuts99 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 5:57 pm


TRP is a very good company IMHO. If you're a person looking for active management, I think they're great. The fees aren't that bad for active management. I started with them years before I adopted the Boglehead philosophy. Just be careful you're not chasing recent returns with the Blue Chip Fund. It's been off the charts the past few years...but that's because of the what the big tech names have done. If/when they come crashing down, the returns won't look so nice :|
I think I was looking at Blue Chip Growth because I have Fidelity's version in my 401 - the name being familiar to me probably drew me to it.

and yeah my BCG has been off the charts in recent years as well. Infact a comparison between TRP and FIDs version is nearly the same.
Last year's outperformance biased my memory a bit. I just checked and Blue Chip significantly lagged the market in 2016. But I do like the fund...good luck with your choices.

RCL
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by RCL » Thu May 24, 2018 6:18 pm

Funny, I just this year got out of my last TR fund (owned since 1994)
I offset the gains from that sale by losses in my VG taxable account this year, so the capital gains weren't so bad.
One of the things I didn't like about the TRP fund were the large capital gains it distributed the last few years.
Got to say though, I had no complaints at all with TRP over the years..never had any mishaps
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jbsmith05
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by jbsmith05 » Thu May 24, 2018 6:59 pm

Yep, I've never had issues with TRP, but then again I can't really even remember needing to contact them in person.

I just need to decide if I think I'll come out ahead with the $50 transfer out fee, then figuring out how to exit the fund without a cap gains hit, maybe over the years I could exit it. But then the time it'll take, maybe I just leave it alone, but then that .21 er is getting at me.

Church Lady
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by Church Lady » Thu May 24, 2018 10:07 pm

OP, have you seen this?

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Paying_ ... itch_funds

It has a link to a spread sheet for estimating costs.
He that loveth silver shall not be satisfied with silver; nor he that loveth abundance with increase: this is also vanity. Ecclesiastes 1:8

NancyABQ
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by NancyABQ » Thu May 24, 2018 10:45 pm

If you decide to leave the fund at TRP for now, you can still quit reinvesting the dividends.

Have them sent to your checking account (you can setup at TRP to do that automatically). Then periodically send them over to Vanguard or wherever, to invest them in a low-expense index fund.

At least this way, you will quit adding new money to a fund you no longer really want, with no additional fees or tax consequences.
Last edited by NancyABQ on Fri May 25, 2018 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

jbsmith05
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by jbsmith05 » Fri May 25, 2018 8:16 am

Church Lady wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:07 pm
OP, have you seen this?

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Paying_ ... itch_funds

It has a link to a spread sheet for estimating costs.
No I haven't - thank you!

jbsmith05
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by jbsmith05 » Fri May 25, 2018 8:16 am

NancyABQ wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:45 pm
If you decide to leave the fund at TRP for now, you can still quit reinvesting the dividends.

Have them sent to your checking account (you can setup at TRP to do that automatically). Then periodically send them over to Vanguard or wherever, to invest them in a low-expense index fund.

At least this way, you will quit adding new money to a fund you now longer really want, with no additional fees or tax consequences.
:thumbsup

Fishing50
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Re: A Lonely T. Rowe Price Account - Transfer?

Post by Fishing50 » Sat May 26, 2018 9:34 am

Snuffycuts99 wrote:
Thu May 24, 2018 10:54 am
I'm in a similar situation. I have all of my investments with Vanguard with the exception of one IRA at TRP. I've had it there for probably 15 years or so. Just like you, I've considered moving it to Vanguard several times, but haven't pulled the trigger. And mine has a bigger expense ratio than yours...it's their Blue Chip Growth fund. I think the ER is around .70. For now I've decided to keep it there for the excitement...it's my only actively managed fund. And it's not a very large part of my portfolio at all.
We're also in a similar position holding PREIX in a taxable account with $15K long term capital gains. We no longer reinvest dividend or capital gains. Our TRP brokerage acccount makes it a tolerable position to retain. We hold 5% portfolio position in rIRA of PRMSX TRP Emerging Markets Stock Fund, which we still like to complement TSP I Fund.

We transferred othe rIRA positions to Vanguard a couple years ago. In kind transfer was not available for the individual investor share class accounts we transfered, so we liquidated positions & repurchased at Vanguard.
It's perfectly legal, go ask the IRS, they'll say the same thing. I actually feel stupid telling you this, I'm sure you would've investigated the matter yourself. Andy Dufresne

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