Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

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radiowave
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by radiowave » Fri May 04, 2018 8:08 pm

keepingitsimple wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 6:26 pm

Radiowave, I am uncertain as to all the Vanguard funds available at CS but I do not think Admiral Shares are available. I suppose that's the trade off. I have confirmed that Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Investor Shares (VTSMX) are available and that was one fund on our list. We were willing to pay the higher expense ratio in exchange for what we felt would be superior customer service, online chat 24 hours a day and a local office if we needed assistance.
OK, thanks that makes more sense to me. You can probably get VTI the ETF version of Vanguard Total Stock at the 0.04% ER if you want to save some costs. VTSMX is 0.14% but yes still much better than EJ portfolio.
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keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Fri May 04, 2018 8:15 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 8:05 pm
Wow. I didn't think that kind of fee schedule still existed anywhere. Holy cow. That is obscene.
Yes, obscene. Upon further reflection I suppose I now understand why they had so much difficulty getting an answer. Some things are too obscene to say out loud or with a straight face.
Last edited by keepingitsimple on Sat May 05, 2018 8:38 am, edited 2 times in total.

keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Fri May 04, 2018 8:20 pm

lostdog wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 7:45 pm
Wow! Now I know why the local EJ rep rides around town in a Mercdes. Yikes!
That Mercedes likely represents a few extra years one of their clients will be in the work force and unable to retire.

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munemaker
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by munemaker » Fri May 04, 2018 8:37 pm

Glockenspiel wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 9:39 am
chw wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 4:47 am
I would have your parents file a complaint with the Consumer Financial Protecrion Bureau. It's easily done on-line.
This is fine and good, but nothing will come of this. [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek]
No, nothing will come of it, because they will ask what you want as a result of the complaint. And all you want is to get your money out of EJ.

If you file a complaint with FINRA, I think it will stick to the broker's record and all can see it.

chw
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by chw » Fri May 04, 2018 9:31 pm

goingup wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 1:13 pm
keepingitsimple wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 12:36 pm
Darth Xanadu wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 10:43 am
ruralavalon wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 10:42 am
In my opinion there is no sense in paying any transaction fee to buy a Vanguard fund in a Schwab account.
Sounds like OP was able to get Schwab to waive commissions on Vanguard funds.
Darth Xanadu you are correct, Schwab agreed to waive commissions on all Vanguard funds.
Waiving purchase fees on Vanguard funds forever? Purchasing a Vanguard mutual fund at Schwab is usually $76 per transaction. I'd make sure Schwab isn't just referring to the initial account set-up. Of course, a $76 purchase fee is pretty minimal compared to anything at EJ. :wink:
I've also gotten the fee waiver at Schwab for Vanguard mutual funds. It has to be asked for, and Schwab will set up the account(s) for the waiver. Not sure the criteria for the waiver, but I assume it's not given to a low balance new client.

likegarden
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by likegarden » Sat May 05, 2018 10:38 am

Keep us updated!

Mr.BB
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by Mr.BB » Sat May 05, 2018 11:01 am

I would get a lawyer and also make sure you have all the information facts before you do anythi, because this going to cost money to do this. I would also have the lawyer tell him they're going to file a lawsuit against the broker and let the corporate office know of this lawsuit and I would also file a report with finra.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Sat May 05, 2018 11:14 am

likegarden wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:38 am
Keep us updated!
OP here. It appears my parents are just now able to gain access to their online account. Yesterday they contacted a new EJ advisor because this was the only way to regain online access, which we needed, even though we are transferring assets out of EJ. We will still be proceeding with the asset transfer to Charles Schwab, but at least we now have access to the account.

Originally we were told by EJ customer relations it may be midweek next week before we were able to regain online access. Fortunately, my father already knew the advisor to which they were transferred. This allowed for a simple phone request to transfer the account to them and thus restore account access. Had he not known the new advisor, I'm certain a face to face meeting would have been needed and the delay would have been as quoted. Luckily, that was not the case.

After the asset transfer is complete, I intend to find out if the action taken by the old advisor was within company policy. Though I agree with an advisor's prerogative to terminate a relationship with a client, I strongly disagree with such action resulting in a client's inability to access their online account for even a moment. In such a termination of relationship, an advisor should be required to convert an account to a "house account" or transfer to another advisor with a seamless transition for the client. If the advisor acted outside of policy a complaint will be filed with one or more of the agencies recommended by others on this forum. If it is company policy, I'll pursue appropriate complaint procedures there too. Though I am not hopeful a complaint towards the company would be meaningful, as they will likely reference it as a security policy to protect a client. But just because something is policy does not mean it is right or appropriate.

Thank you very much to all of you who read and gave advice and support. This community/forum is much appreciated.

dbr
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by dbr » Sat May 05, 2018 11:18 am

Once everything is cleared up consideration might be given to submitting all this to a financial columnist at a newspaper. This is the kind of outrageous behavior that ought to be reported publicly. The issue would depend strongly on what the EJ corporate response to a complaint might be. If it is just one guy being a jerk or some kind of systems disconnect, then just walk away and be done with it.

delamer
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by delamer » Sat May 05, 2018 11:22 am

keepingitsimple wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 11:14 am
likegarden wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:38 am
Keep us updated!
OP here. It appears my parents are just now able to gain access to their online account. Yesterday they contacted a new EJ advisor because this was the only way to regain online access, which we needed, even though we are transferring assets out of EJ. We will still be proceeding with the asset transfer to Charles Schwab, but at least we now have access to the account.

Originally we were told by EJ customer relations it may be midweek next week before we were able to regain online access. Fortunately, my father already knew the advisor to which they were transferred. This allowed for a simple phone request to transfer the account to them and thus restore account access. Had he not known the new advisor, I'm certain a face to face meeting would have been needed and the delay would have been as quoted. Luckily, that was not the case.

After the asset transfer is complete, I intend to find out if the action taken by the old advisor was within company policy. Though I agree with an advisor's prerogative to terminate a relationship with a client, I strongly disagree with such action resulting in a client's inability to access their online account for even a moment. In such a termination of relationship, an advisor should be required to convert an account to a "house account" or transfer to another advisor with a seamless transition for the client. If the advisor acted outside of policy a complaint will be filed with one or more of the agencies recommended by others on this forum. If it is company policy, I'll pursue appropriate complaint procedures there too. Though I am not hopeful a complaint towards the company would be meaningful, as they will likely reference it as a security policy to protect a client. But just because something is policy does not mean it is right or appropriate.

Thank you very much to all of you who read and gave advice and support. This community/forum is much appreciated.

I am glad things have worked out for your parents.

You are not going to have much leverage to find out company policy once the assets are transferred out. Not to mention that you are not the account holder. If you want to make a complaint to the appropriate agencies, then do so. But I am not sure if it us worth your time.

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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by ruralavalon » Sat May 05, 2018 11:26 am

It's great to see that on-line access has been restored :D , and that your parents will go ahead with the asset transfer.
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StevieG72
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by StevieG72 » Sat May 05, 2018 11:58 am

Such is life, talk about a lack of professionalism!

Withdraw everything from EJ and let everyone that will listen know (at EJ) the reason is due to the unprofesional way your parents were treated. This is how 20 yr. customers are treated? No thanks, I will pass.

Should be no big deal getting access reinstated.

Feelings are hurt because they can no longer milk your parents funds? Wow, hopefully your folks do not feel as though they did something wrong.
Fools think their own way is right, but the wise listen to others.

keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Sat May 05, 2018 12:14 pm

StevieG72 wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 11:58 am
Such is life, talk about a lack of professionalism!

Withdraw everything from EJ and let everyone that will listen know (at EJ) the reason is due to the unprofesional way your parents were treated. This is how 20 yr. customers are treated? No thanks, I will pass.

Should be no big deal getting access reinstated.

Feelings are hurt because they can no longer milk your parents funds? Wow, hopefully your folks do not feel as though they did something wrong.
Agreed. My parents do not feel they did anything wrong, I've made certain of that. It's ironic because the trigger for all this was my parents desire to give the advisor a courtesy call to let them know what would be transpiring in the upcoming weeks. They didn't want the advisor caught off guard and to feel slighted. Guess that didn't work. The additional irony is they intended to leave assets with EJ in the high six figures. Makes one wonder how much one needs to have invested to be treated fairly or at least with a modicum of courtesy.
Last edited by keepingitsimple on Sat May 05, 2018 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.

dbr
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by dbr » Sat May 05, 2018 12:25 pm

keepingitsimple wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 12:14 pm
StevieG72 wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 11:58 am
Such is life, talk about a lack of professionalism!

Withdraw everything from EJ and let everyone that will listen know (at EJ) the reason is due to the unprofesional way your parents were treated. This is how 20 yr. customers are treated? No thanks, I will pass.

Should be no big deal getting access reinstated.

Feelings are hurt because they can no longer milk your parents funds? Wow, hopefully your folks do not feel as though they did something wrong.
Agreed. My parents do not feel they did anything wrong, I've made certain of that. It's ironic because the trigger for all this was my parents desire to give the advisor a courtesy call to let them know what would be transpiring in the upcoming weeks. They didn't want the advisor caught of guard and to feel slighted. Guess that didn't work. The additional irony is they intended to leave assets with EJ in the high six figures. Makes one wonder how much one needs to have invested to be treated fairly or at least with a modicum of courtesy.
Nothing about EJ is fair to the investor. However, as you suggest, EJ has a strong incentive to be courteous as a friendly relationship is a large part of he sales arsenal of an organization like that. Given what you say this incident may well have done your parents a huge favor.

keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Sat May 05, 2018 12:33 pm

dbr wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 12:25 pm
keepingitsimple wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 12:14 pm
StevieG72 wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 11:58 am
Such is life, talk about a lack of professionalism!

Withdraw everything from EJ and let everyone that will listen know (at EJ) the reason is due to the unprofesional way your parents were treated. This is how 20 yr. customers are treated? No thanks, I will pass.

Should be no big deal getting access reinstated.

Feelings are hurt because they can no longer milk your parents funds? Wow, hopefully your folks do not feel as though they did something wrong.
Agreed. My parents do not feel they did anything wrong, I've made certain of that. It's ironic because the trigger for all this was my parents desire to give the advisor a courtesy call to let them know what would be transpiring in the upcoming weeks. They didn't want the advisor caught of guard and to feel slighted. Guess that didn't work. The additional irony is they intended to leave assets with EJ in the high six figures. Makes one wonder how much one needs to have invested to be treated fairly or at least with a modicum of courtesy.
Nothing about EJ is fair to the investor. However, as you suggest, EJ has a strong incentive to be courteous as a friendly relationship is a large part of he sales arsenal of an organization like that. Given what you say this incident may well have done your parents a huge favor.
I agree wholeheartedly dbr. This incident shed light on something to which they had been unaware, that the so-called friendship wasn't a friendship by any loose definition. If my parents owe anything to EJ, it should be a commission for the encouragement to leave EJ.

staythecourse
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by staythecourse » Sat May 05, 2018 12:45 pm

Sorry did not have the time to read all the responses, so apologize if I am repeating.

I am not in the trade to say if it legal or not, but seems HIGHLY unethical. It is his decision if he wants to work with your parents or not (heck I'm a doc and have done the same to patients who were not board with my plan for their care), but NO WAY should he have locked your parents out of their account. I am pretty sure there is a process. The process likely goes something like: Send customer letter stating he/ she is no longer going to be his rep and give him options and give them x amount of time to decide what they want to do and until then x person will handle any questions or himself. I would be LIVID if I was your parents. After 20 years of a relationship this is how he is going to treat them?

Personally, I don't like to argue, but am vindictive in the end. I would call to speak to the branch manager and ask how to get access so you can remove ALL your funds from Ed. Jones. Who knows if this will happen again. Then I would get this done. Then torch the guy by filing a formal complaint of unethical behavior to his state licensing board and maybe a call to the AG office. In the end it seems illegal to prevent someone from accessing their own money with no indication of foul play.

Good luck

p.s. Another reminder of why the late Harry Browne adviced to keep as few of people between you and your money)
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

not4me
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by not4me » Sat May 05, 2018 1:06 pm

I also didn't read all the other posts, but skimming them I didn't see this exact approach. I didn't notice if this is located in a small town. EJ seems to gravitate toward communities more so than some. I would move all $ from EJ. But after that, I would share liberally that Broker #2 was much better to work with than broker #1. That sharing can be factual without much commentary if your parents are sensitive to that. May not matter, but I think you see the potential.

Secondly, I'd like to congratulate keepingitsimple...Seems you've handled this quite well! (& that includes keeping this forum posted)

keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Sat May 05, 2018 1:27 pm

not4me wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 1:06 pm
I also didn't read all the other posts, but skimming them I didn't see this exact approach. I didn't notice if this is located in a small town. EJ seems to gravitate toward communities more so than some. I would move all $ from EJ. But after that, I would share liberally that Broker #2 was much better to work with than broker #1. That sharing can be factual without much commentary if your parents are sensitive to that. May not matter, but I think you see the potential.

Secondly, I'd like to congratulate keepingitsimple...Seems you've handled this quite well! (& that includes keeping this forum posted)
Thank you for the kind words not4me and thank you for the suggestions. We are in a medium size city. Your recommendation is a good one and will likely be the ongoing commentary shared with others. As well as advising others to reconsider doing business with EJ and consider Schwab, Vanguard and Bogleheads.org instead.

wbrianwhite
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by wbrianwhite » Sat May 05, 2018 1:48 pm

Since nobody mentioned it... Selling what seems like a really large amount of stock may incur significant tax implications. It may still make sense. But it may also make sense to break it up into different years or think through the total benefit expected from the move to funds.

galectin
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by galectin » Sat May 05, 2018 2:26 pm

OP-

Now that they have access to their accounts again, I would advise your parents to download and backup all records of their past transactions at EJ. If they do close out the accounts this may well lead to them not having this information in the future for determining basis of stocks upon sale, etc.

MnD
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by MnD » Sat May 05, 2018 2:53 pm

Glad its working out for your folks after the unpleasantness.

I've found that most slick and friendly advisors that are providing really bad deals to their clients turn hostile the minute it looks like the game is being downsized or ended. Years ago a coworker ended a relationship with his full service broker on the phone to switch to a discount broker. At the end of the call his broker of many years told him he was a "(expletive starting with F and ending in ing) sheep" for leaving.

I recently moved more of our assets to Schwab so on Monday I'm going to call my advisor and ask if he will waive transaction fees on Dodge and Cox funds. My portfolio is now virtually all Schwab and Vanguard ETF's and Dodge and Cox funds so the waiver with the biggest savings would be on the Dodge and Cox funds.

sschoe2
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by sschoe2 » Sat May 05, 2018 3:35 pm

The only people I would would trust less than Edward Jones to manage my retirement account would be the Illinois Govt. Hopefully the transfer goes smoothly and you can have your parent's portfolio with a more trustworthy and less parasitic custodian.

mptfan
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by mptfan » Sat May 05, 2018 4:27 pm

Mr.BB wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 11:01 am
I would get a lawyer and also make sure you have all the information facts before you do anything, because this going to cost money to do this. I would also have the lawyer tell him they're going to file a lawsuit against the broker and let the corporate office know of this lawsuit and I would also file a report with finra.
They can't file a lawsuit because of mandatory binding arbitration.

mac808
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by mac808 » Sat May 05, 2018 4:57 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 8:05 pm
Wow. I didn't think that kind of fee schedule still existed anywhere. Holy cow. That is obscene.
I'm almost afraid to ask this but does this mean that a single executed buy or sell order in an account worth >$100k costs a minimum of $705 in commission?

keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Sat May 05, 2018 5:22 pm

mac808 wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 4:57 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 8:05 pm
Wow. I didn't think that kind of fee schedule still existed anywhere. Holy cow. That is obscene.
I'm almost afraid to ask this but does this mean that a single executed buy or sell order in an account worth >$100k costs a minimum of $705 in commission?
If you were afraid to ask, then you may want to sit down. As far as a sell order, no $705 is not the minimum. The minimum fee for a single executed sell order of >$100K would be $705 + .5% of the principal. So a sell order for $100K would be: $705+$500 = $1,205. As far as a buy order, I am unfamiliar though the equity commission schedule reads as if the fees would be the same.

keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Sat May 05, 2018 5:30 pm

galectin wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 2:26 pm
OP-

Now that they have access to their accounts again, I would advise your parents to download and backup all records of their past transactions at EJ. If they do close out the accounts this may well lead to them not having this information in the future for determining basis of stocks upon sale, etc.
Good advice galectin. Advice I intend to follow :happy

tibbitts
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by tibbitts » Sat May 05, 2018 5:37 pm

As I have described previously, I know from personal experience that neither Vanguard nor Fidelity will be of any assistance at all in this process at least up at six-figure asset levels. They will only work with you if the other institution cooperates to a degree that isn't happening in this case. At some asset level I'm guessing they would get involved, but I don't know what that level would be.

Luckywon
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by Luckywon » Sat May 05, 2018 6:16 pm

keepingitsimple wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 5:30 pm

Good advice galectin. Advice I intend to follow :happy
OP, can you post the EJ office location and advisor's name here? It would be nice if this thread comes up in a google search for either of them. You could advise the branch manager of this and suggest he/she keep updated on the situation via this thread :) Perhaps that will ignite some interest in them to ensure a speedy and happy end to this saga for your poor parents. What an infuriating story. A good public shaming for what that advisor did would be appropriate, IMO. Provided all the details of what he did are accurate, of course.

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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by pkcrafter » Sat May 05, 2018 6:25 pm

not4me wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 1:06 pm
I would move all $ from EJ. But after that, I would share liberally that Broker #2 was much better to work with than broker #1. That sharing can be factual without much commentary if your parents are sensitive to that. May not matter, but I think you see the potential.
Wait, we don't know what #2 is actually planning to do. Good guy, trust him? :o
Secondly, I'd like to congratulate keepingitsimple...Seems you've handled this quite well! (& that includes keeping this forum posted)
+1

Paul
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PhillyBird
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by PhillyBird » Sat May 05, 2018 6:27 pm

Luckywon wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 6:16 pm
keepingitsimple wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 5:30 pm

Good advice galectin. Advice I intend to follow :happy
OP, can you post the EJ office location and advisor's name here? It would be nice if this thread comes up in a google search for either of them. You could advise the branch manager of this and suggest he/she keep updated on the situation via this thread :) Perhaps that will ignite some interest in them to ensure a speedy and happy end to this saga for your poor parents. What an infuriating story. A good public shaming for what that advisor did would be appropriate, IMO. Provided all the details of what he did are accurate, of course.
Yes, also I've heard corporate offices of major firms monitor facebook and twitter feeds. Consider posting on their public profiles if you use either of those services.

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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by CedarWaxWing » Sat May 05, 2018 6:28 pm

student wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 5:31 am
As others have said, not only one should transfer, one should report it to agencies such as Consumer Protection Bureau, Financial Industry Regulatory Authority and Better Business Bureau. Just initiate the transfer from Schwab/Fidelity/Vanguard and they will take care of it. This is beyond ridiculous.
And the NYTimes financial editor?

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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat May 05, 2018 9:36 pm

I wonder how many of the folks reading this thread have accounts at Edward Jones and are suddenly realizing that they would be better off elsewhere. I also wonder if the senior leadership at Edward Jones reads these posts and are suddenly realizing that they have a major credibility problem as a company.

ResearchMed
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by ResearchMed » Sat May 05, 2018 9:39 pm

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 9:36 pm
I wonder how many of the folks reading this thread have accounts at Edward Jones and are suddenly realizing that they would be better off elsewhere. I also wonder if the senior leadership at Edward Jones reads these posts and are suddenly realizing that they have a major credibility problem as a company.
I doubt they are worried, at least not about anything here on BH.

There may be some folks here with accounts at EJ, bothered about it or not, planning to leave or not.

However, I daresay that a *very* small proportion of EJ marks clients are even aware of Bogleheads.org.

RM
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keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Sat May 05, 2018 10:37 pm

OP here.

If I could give current or prospective EJ clients a takeaway, it would be the following:

1. Ask about the fees to invest in, manage and withdraw an asset. Then find an online investment calculator and see what those fees & commissions could be worth in 20 years if you had invested them, because that's what you're really paying.

2. Friend and "friendly" are not the same thing. If you think your investment advisor is your friend, you are mistaken. They are not. If they really are your friend, then you should invest elsewhere because friends and money don't mix.

3. If your situation necessitates an advisor then collaborate with a fee-only Financial Advisor. Because if the person advising you on an investment also earns their living selling you said investment, well, it's kind of like going to a car dealer and expecting them to encourage you to buy a better car from a different dealership. It's not going to happen. It doesn't mean the advice is bad but one should be aware of the potential conflict of interest.

Edit: fee-based advisor in item 3 has been changed to "fee-only Advisor" which more correctly describes the type of advisor being recommended.
Last edited by keepingitsimple on Wed May 09, 2018 10:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Mr.BB
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by Mr.BB » Sun May 06, 2018 5:04 pm

mptfan wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 4:27 pm
Mr.BB wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 11:01 am
I would get a lawyer and also make sure you have all the information facts before you do anything, because this going to cost money to do this. I would also have the lawyer tell him they're going to file a lawsuit against the broker and let the corporate office know of this lawsuit and I would also file a report with finra.
They can't file a lawsuit because of mandatory binding arbitration.
There must be something because of the FA actions of locking them out of their own account. They may not be able to do anything about the choices of investments he made for them, but locking a person out of their own accounts and the effect on their well being I bet they can go that route. Obviously that is a question for a lawyer.
"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit."

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dratkinson
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by dratkinson » Sun May 06, 2018 5:38 pm

In for the ride.

As a part of your follow-up actions, could put a magnetic sign on your car that said:
"Google: leaving Edward Jones."

Anyone performing the search would find open source horror stories of former EJ clients.

And if your old EJ rep complains, then change the sign to:
"Don't Google: leaving Edward Jones."
d.r.a, not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.

keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Sun May 06, 2018 6:33 pm

dratkinson wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 5:38 pm
In for the ride.

As a part of your follow-up actions, could put a magnetic sign on your car that said:
"Google: leaving Edward Jones."

Anyone performing the search would find open source horror stories of former EJ clients.

And if your old EJ rep complains, then change the sign to:
"Don't Google: leaving Edward Jones."
Thanks for the chuckle dratkinson :sharebeer

limeyx
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by limeyx » Sun May 06, 2018 8:53 pm

Nthomas wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 4:14 pm
limeyx wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 3:40 pm
ruralavalon wrote:
Fri May 04, 2018 10:42 am
1) First get the investments transferred to Schwab, complain to the appropriate authorities later. Escaping Edward Jones is the top priority in my opinion.

2) Contact Schwab and let them do most of the work in accomplishing the transfer.

3) Since the new accounts will be at Schwab use Schwab index funds like:
Schwab Total Stock Market Index Fund (SWSTX);
Schwab International Index Fund (SWISX); and
Schwab U.S. Aggregate Bond Index Fund (SWAGX).

I am a huge fan of Vanguard, but in my opinion there is no sense in paying any transaction fee to buy a Vanguard fund in a Schwab account.
If you have a decent amount @ Schwab, in my experience a quick "chat" with their support people via online chat gets me enough free trades to last 2 years (repeat every two)...
how much is a "decent amount" in your experience?
around ~350K did it for me

However I do realize this was probably limited to ETFs only and not Mutual Funds (I only use ETFs in my taxable account) so that may not work for everybody

pyld76
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by pyld76 » Sun May 06, 2018 9:16 pm

OP: it is just a bit difficult to discern this from the thread: are your parents going to leave their IRAs and CD ladder at EJ?

I ask this because you'd be far better served simply getting all the assets moved out (and Schwab can do this for you) and then running the FINRA and SEC complaints against EJ.

keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Sun May 06, 2018 9:43 pm

pyld76 wrote:
Sun May 06, 2018 9:16 pm
OP: it is just a bit difficult to discern this from the thread: are your parents going to leave their IRAs and CD ladder at EJ?

I ask this because you'd be far better served simply getting all the assets moved out (and Schwab can do this for you) and then running the FINRA and SEC complaints against EJ.
Sorry for the lack of clarity. The plan is to move everything.

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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by Ben Mathew » Wed May 09, 2018 1:19 pm

keepingitsimple wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:37 pm
OP here.

If I could give current or prospective EJ clients a takeaway, it would be the following:

1. Ask about the fees to invest in, manage and withdraw an asset. Then find an online investment calculator and see what those fees & commissions could be worth in 20 years if you had invested them, because that's what you're really paying.

2. Friend and "friendly" are not the same thing. If you think your investment advisor is your friend, you are mistaken. They are not. If they really are your friend, then you should invest elsewhere because friends and money don't mix.

3. If your situation necessitates an advisor then collaborate with a fee-based Financial Advisor. Because if the person advising you on an investment also earns their living selling you said investment, well, it's kind of like going to a car dealer and expecting them to encourage you to buy a better car from a different dealership. It's not going to happen. It doesn't mean the advice is bad but one should be aware of the potential conflict of interest.
Agree with these points, but want to caution that a fee-based financial advisor is a misleading term designed to trick people. You want a fee-only financial advisor. Fee-based advisors charge fees in addition to taking commissions! As if the problem with the commission-based model is not the presence of commissions, but the absence of fees!

I see the cooption of the term "fee based" as yet another symptom of how vicious this industry is. The traps are everywhere. Even if you wise up to the enormity of hidden commissions and fees and try to leave commission-based salesmen pretending to be "advisors", they can still call themselves "fee-based" and trap you. How all of this is legal is beyond me!
Last edited by Ben Mathew on Wed May 09, 2018 4:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

CedarWaxWing
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by CedarWaxWing » Wed May 09, 2018 2:44 pm

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 9:36 pm
I wonder how many of the folks reading this thread have accounts at Edward Jones and are suddenly realizing that they would be better off elsewhere. I also wonder if the senior leadership at Edward Jones reads these posts and are suddenly realizing that they have a major credibility problem as a company.
I am amazed at the ability of people to think that the EJ guy is their friend. These so called FAs are very good at being personable and friendly when they want to be... i.e. perhaps the term manipulative applies. The ability of a job applicant to do that is in fact their only essential qualification to get the job. It really is a carny show of selling financial snake oil.

Even when I show someone how much money they are losing... i.e. as much as 25% of their retirement incomes based on their current balance and annual withdrawls, not to mention the years and years of paying too much and loosing the returns on the costs they paid out.

EJ knows very well how to be nice when the money keeps pouring in, and it is human nature to mistake that for someone actually caring about them.

limeyx
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by limeyx » Wed May 09, 2018 2:52 pm

CedarWaxWing wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 2:44 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 9:36 pm
I wonder how many of the folks reading this thread have accounts at Edward Jones and are suddenly realizing that they would be better off elsewhere. I also wonder if the senior leadership at Edward Jones reads these posts and are suddenly realizing that they have a major credibility problem as a company.
I am amazed at the ability of people to think that the EJ guy is their friend. These so called FAs are very good at being personable and friendly when they want to be... i.e. perhaps the term manipulative applies. The ability of a job applicant to do that is in fact their only essential qualification to get the job. It really is a carny show of selling financial snake oil.

Even when I show someone how much money they are losing... i.e. as much as 25% of their retirement incomes based on their current balance and annual withdrawls, not to mention the years and years of paying too much and loosing the returns on the costs they paid out.

EJ knows very well how to be nice when the money keeps pouring in, and it is human nature to mistake that for someone actually caring about them.
Our (older) neighbor moved to them from a "terrible advisor" (can't imagine how bad that one must have been)

It's taking all I have to keep my mouth shut and poking in where i am not wanted but it's intensely irritating as I'm sure she is paying all the same fees...

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dratkinson
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by dratkinson » Wed May 09, 2018 4:33 pm

limeyx wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 2:52 pm
...

Our (older) neighbor moved to them from a "terrible advisor" (can't imagine how bad that one must have been)

It's taking all I have to keep my mouth shut and poking in where i am not wanted but it's intensely irritating as I'm sure she is paying all the same fees...
When I found the BH way, I talked to my older neighbors (husband/wife) about reviewing their investments with the idea of having more in retirement.

Long story short: their FA was their friend and had been taking care of them for many years and they didn't want to change. So I shut up.



Come forward to today. Husband died a few years ago and wife is in long-term recovery after hospital stay, so I and another friend watched the house (me) and managed the bills (HE).

I babysat the house/pet and opened the bills and called HE if something needed to be paid. HE'd come over once/week, pick up the bills, and write the checks.

During this time I leaned that neighbor's FA (not EJ) was churning an IRA account. Besides charging >1.5% AUM, every month the FA would sell one HY bond fund ($20 transaction fee) and buy two HY bond funds ($20 + $20 transaction fees). Then next month the FA would sell two HY bond funds ($20 + $20) and buy one HY bond fund ($20). This churning effectively doubled FA's AUM fee. Had to explain to HE what churning was.

HE reported churning to neighbor. From recovery, neighbor called FA and told him to stop buying/sell, just let account ride. FA didn't listen. Continued churning.

HE and neighbor moved IRA to Fidelity. As a parting shot, FA reported transaction as an IRA disbursement, not as a rollover.

State letter quickly followed reminding neighbor that taxes are owed on IRA disbursement. HE contacted neighbor's CPA who resolved the matter.

Neighbor eventually died. Heirs wanted the money, but not the old pet so it was euthanized. HE moved out of state to be with his grandkids. FA was not reported, so skated.

Good times.



Bottom line. If OP's FA is not reported, he has no incentive to change. He must be reported.
d.r.a, not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.

CedarWaxWing
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by CedarWaxWing » Wed May 09, 2018 6:30 pm

dratkinson wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 4:33 pm
limeyx wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 2:52 pm
...

Our (older) neighbor moved to them from a "terrible advisor" (can't imagine how bad that one must have been)

It's taking all I have to keep my mouth shut and poking in where i am not wanted but it's intensely irritating as I'm sure she is paying all the same fees...
When I found the BH way, I talked to my older neighbors (husband/wife) about reviewing their investments with the idea of having more in retirement.

Long story short: their FA was their friend and had been taking care of them for many years and they didn't want to change. So I shut up.



Come forward to today. Husband died a few years ago and wife is in long-term recovery after hospital stay, so I and another friend watched the house (me) and managed the bills (HE).

I babysat the house/pet and opened the bills and called HE if something needed to be paid. HE'd come over once/week, pick up the bills, and write the checks.

During this time I leaned that neighbor's FA (not EJ) was churning an IRA account. Besides charging >1.5% AUM, every month the FA would sell one HY bond fund ($20 transaction fee) and buy two HY bond funds ($20 + $20 transaction fees). Then next month the FA would sell two HY bond funds ($20 + $20) and buy one HY bond fund ($20). This churning effectively doubled FA's AUM fee. Had to explain to HE what churning was.

HE reported churning to neighbor. From recovery, neighbor called FA and told him to stop buying/sell, just let account ride. FA didn't listen. Continued churning.

HE and neighbor moved IRA to Fidelity. As a parting shot, FA reported transaction as an IRA disbursement, not as a rollover.

State letter quickly followed reminding neighbor that taxes are owed on IRA disbursement. HE contacted neighbor's CPA who resolved the matter.

Neighbor eventually died. Heirs wanted the money, but not the old pet so it was euthanized. HE moved out of state to be with his grandkids. FA was not reported, so skated.

Good times.



Bottom line. If OP's FA is not reported, he has no incentive to change. He must be reported.
I am not an attorney, but that FA's shenanigans seems very much like embezzlement to me, even before he was told to stop the churning... and more so after being told and not changing the thievery.

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dratkinson
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by dratkinson » Wed May 09, 2018 7:48 pm

CedarWaxWing wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 6:30 pm
...
I am not an attorney, but that FA's shenanigans seems very much like embezzlement to me, even before he was told to stop the churning... and more so after being told and not changing the thievery.

+1. But I'm not a stakeholder so have no say in the matter, so better to remain silent and ignore the matter.

But I am forewarned that it could happen to me or friends if we are not careful.
d.r.a, not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.

CedarWaxWing
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by CedarWaxWing » Wed May 09, 2018 8:07 pm

dbr wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 11:18 am
Once everything is cleared up consideration might be given to submitting all this to a financial columnist at a newspaper. This is the kind of outrageous behavior that ought to be reported publicly. The issue would depend strongly on what the EJ corporate response to a complaint might be. If it is just one guy being a jerk or some kind of systems disconnect, then just walk away and be done with it.
Being a jerk is too kind... this person effectively abandoned his client and denied the client access to the account and all the funds in it, in addition to causing a great deal of anxiety. He did this because the client, by following the rules of law, was going to put his money where he would be more likely to be good returns and good service. In any other line of work that employee would be fired...and in most other financial companies that employee would be fired.

keepingitsimple
Posts: 127
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Wed May 09, 2018 10:10 pm

Ben Mathew wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 1:19 pm
keepingitsimple wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 10:37 pm
OP here.

If I could give current or prospective EJ clients a takeaway, it would be the following:

1. Ask about the fees to invest in, manage and withdraw an asset. Then find an online investment calculator and see what those fees & commissions could be worth in 20 years if you had invested them, because that's what you're really paying.

2. Friend and "friendly" are not the same thing. If you think your investment advisor is your friend, you are mistaken. They are not. If they really are your friend, then you should invest elsewhere because friends and money don't mix.

3. If your situation necessitates an advisor then collaborate with a fee-only Financial Advisor. Because if the person advising you on an investment also earns their living selling you said investment, well, it's kind of like going to a car dealer and expecting them to encourage you to buy a better car from a different dealership. It's not going to happen. It doesn't mean the advice is bad but one should be aware of the potential conflict of interest.
Agree with these points, but want to caution that a fee-based financial advisor is a misleading term designed to trick people. You want a fee-only financial advisor. Fee-based advisors charge fees in addition to taking commissions! As if the problem with the commission-based model is not the presence of commissions, but the absence of fees!

I see the cooption of the term "fee based" as yet another symptom of how vicious this industry is. The traps are everywhere. Even if you wise up to the enormity of hidden commissions and fees and try to leave commission-based salesmen pretending to be "advisors", they can still call themselves "fee-based" and trap you. How all of this is legal is beyond me!
Thank you for the correct verbiage Ben Mathew. I will amend the original post accordingly, as your correction is what I intended. I also edited the above quote that you were referencing to correctly read fee-only advisor. Thank you again.
Last edited by keepingitsimple on Wed May 09, 2018 10:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.

keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Wed May 09, 2018 10:39 pm

CedarWaxWing wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 8:07 pm
dbr wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 11:18 am
Once everything is cleared up consideration might be given to submitting all this to a financial columnist at a newspaper. This is the kind of outrageous behavior that ought to be reported publicly. The issue would depend strongly on what the EJ corporate response to a complaint might be. If it is just one guy being a jerk or some kind of systems disconnect, then just walk away and be done with it.
Being a jerk is too kind... this person effectively abandoned his client and denied the client access to the account and all the funds in it, in addition to causing a great deal of anxiety. He did this because the client, by following the rules of law, was going to put his money where he would be more likely to be good returns and good service. In any other line of work that employee would be fired...and in most other financial companies that employee would be fired.
OP here. I agree. My parents did feel abandoned. If the advisor, for any reason, no longer wanted to work with my parents they should have simply stated so, given my parents two or three other advisors from which to choose and transitioned them over seamlessly. There was absolutely no call for this tantrum and cutting them off as they did. Though they regained access to their account, the fact remains they never should have been prevented from accessing it for even one minute. Further adding to their stress was the obvious, nagging question of what was happening to their assets while they can't access them. Fortunately, nothing nefarious took place within their account while they were unable to access.

keepingitsimple
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Re: Ed. Jones rep didn't like our plan, now we're locked out

Post by keepingitsimple » Wed May 09, 2018 10:47 pm

CedarWaxWing wrote:
Wed May 09, 2018 2:44 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Sat May 05, 2018 9:36 pm
I wonder how many of the folks reading this thread have accounts at Edward Jones and are suddenly realizing that they would be better off elsewhere. I also wonder if the senior leadership at Edward Jones reads these posts and are suddenly realizing that they have a major credibility problem as a company.
I am amazed at the ability of people to think that the EJ guy is their friend. These so called FAs are very good at being personable and friendly when they want to be... i.e. perhaps the term manipulative applies. The ability of a job applicant to do that is in fact their only essential qualification to get the job. It really is a carny show of selling financial snake oil.

Even when I show someone how much money they are losing... i.e. as much as 25% of their retirement incomes based on their current balance and annual withdrawls, not to mention the years and years of paying too much and loosing the returns on the costs they paid out.

EJ knows very well how to be nice when the money keeps pouring in, and it is human nature to mistake that for someone actually caring about them.
The term manipulative sums it up very nicely. Well said.

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