300k vs 500k house?

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OneWorld111
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300k vs 500k house?

Post by OneWorld111 » Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:56 pm

Experienced BHs::

Situation:
Currently we have ~$300k house (almost paid off) and was bought few yrs ago, fully expecting at that time we will move into a bigger(additional 800-1000 sq ft) ~ $500k house. It’s been few yrs (4~6) now in $300k house and I feel uncomfortable going for $500k house due to bigger mortgage, taxes, n associated costs with bigger house as most will be built in late 1990s or early 2000s. Neighborhood only has 1990s houses and we don’t want longer commutes..I don’t have affordability problem, it’s more that I will be saving less... we max all savings 401k, save for kids, etc.. for now..

thoughts please on
1. Do you think having a $300k house will affect Net Worth as it will have overall less appreciation in value? Hence better off buying $500k house
2. Would you buy a bigger house at 45 yrs knowing that in 10-12 yrs, u may downsize as kids will be out, etc...
3. Of course family wants bigger house n think I m overdoing stuff
4. Anything else

BR,
OneWorld

ResearchMed
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by ResearchMed » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:05 pm

OneWorld111 wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:56 pm
Experienced BHs::

Situation:
Currently we have ~$300k house (almost paid off) and was bought few yrs ago, fully expecting at that time we will move into a bigger(additional 800-1000 sq ft) ~ $500k house. It’s been few yrs (4~6) now in $300k house and I feel uncomfortable going for $500k house due to bigger mortgage, taxes, n associated costs with bigger house as most will be built in late 1990s or early 2000s. Neighborhood only has 1990s houses and we don’t want longer commutes..I don’t have affordability problem, it’s more that I will be saving less... we max all savings 401k, save for kids, etc.. for now..

thoughts please on
1. Do you think having a $300k house will affect Net Worth as it will have overall less appreciation in value? Hence better off buying $500k house
2. Would you buy a bigger house at 45 yrs knowing that in 10-12 yrs, u may downsize as kids will be out, etc...
3. Of course family wants bigger house n think I m overdoing stuff
4. Anything else

BR,
OneWorld
The financial part of this question depends upon information you haven't shared, such as (approximate) income, current mortgage payment & other costs (taxes, insurance), expected new mortgage payments & other costs, and then amount actually saved for retirement, emergency fund, and also college savings, etc.

It also depends on non-financial issues: How many children (and sexes/ages) and how many bedrooms/bathrooms currently, for example.

IF you can afford it, and the space would really be useful, I wouldn't hesitate just because children will be heading off in 10-12 years (1-2 years, maybe). Also, you may want to stay there after that, and have a place for them to return to, or to have them and their families come visit, etc.

RM
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MNGopher
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by MNGopher » Thu Apr 26, 2018 9:23 pm

Picking the bigger more expensive house might be the best decision for the needs of your family, if you can afford it. However from a financial situation it will hurt your net worth. Any slight % of appreciation difference between the houses will be more than wiped out by mortgage interest, increased property tax, insurance, furnishings, utilities, and most importantly the cost of lost opportunity had the money been invested.

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ram
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by ram » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:22 pm

Our kids left for college 6 and 8 yrs ago. We have not downsized and do not plan to. Kids still have their old bedrooms and they like it.
Ram

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Watty
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by Watty » Thu Apr 26, 2018 10:24 pm

Assuming that you can afford it and everything else is equal like the schools, commute, etc then I like to look at choices like these in term of what economist call "opportunity cost" instead of the dollars involved.

By this I mean that instead of looking at the money you look at what you would give up by buying the more expensive house. Once you figure out what the actual tradeoff is then you can decide what is worth more to you.

Savio
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by Savio » Fri Apr 27, 2018 5:10 am

Financially, I can't imagine that buying the bigger house would be better. It is almost certain to be the worse financial choice.

But not every decision is ruled by financial "goodness".

If you and your family want the bigger house, then that should be the decider. If we all made the "right" financial decision about houses, we'd all live in tiny homes probably and we likely wouldn't be as happy.

chevca
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by chevca » Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:37 am

OneWorld111 wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:56 pm
3. Of course family wants bigger house n think I m overdoing stuff
Yes, this ^^

It sounds like you expected or planned to make this move and you can afford it... and the family would be happier. Quit overthinking it and go for it.

You nearly paid off a $300k house in a handful of years. You can certainly pay off a couple hundred more thousand in a few more years, right? Then keep on saving. Simple.

c1over8
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by c1over8 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:09 am

chevca wrote:
Fri Apr 27, 2018 6:37 am
You nearly paid off a $300k house in a handful of years. You can certainly pay off a couple hundred more thousand in a few more years, right? Then keep on saving. Simple.
+1, sounds like you can afford it

boglebill2015
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by boglebill2015 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:25 am

OneWorld111 wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:56 pm
2. Would you buy a bigger house at 45 yrs knowing that in 10-12 yrs, u may downsize as kids will be out, etc...

BR,
OneWorld

SOunds like you and the kids could enjoy the larger house for more than 1/2 the time they'll be living at home. Pretty long period to enjoy the larger house.

Texanbybirth
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by Texanbybirth » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:48 am

1. No, see comment above about mort int, taxes, expenses on the larger house probably eating away any incremental net worth benefit, ceter.s paribus.
2. I would NOT buy a bigger house. My parents larger house where us 3 kids used to live is way too big for them now. It's anecdotal, of course, as another poster above likes their larger house still.
3. That's not really something we can help with. I can tell you, though, that just because everyone else wants something doesn't make it the best decision for your family. You may be the only one in the right. That makes your position less enviable to be sure.
4. Might be time to have some family meetings about this decision. If it's weighing on you, then it could help allay your concerns and give you an opportunity to discuss all sides.

You say "I don’t have affordability problem, it’s more that I will be saving less...". Without more details, it sounds like you might have an affordability problem. Would you have to cut back on other savings if you got the larger house? Yet you paid off a $300k house in "4~6" years? These types of questions are always hard to answer without more information.
Last edited by Texanbybirth on Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:01 am, edited 1 time in total.

delamer
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by delamer » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:51 am

Have you considered expanding the current house rather than moving?

We added on just 200 square feet but it made our house much more livable, because it expanded the kitchen/family room where we spend most of our time.

SelfEmployed123
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by SelfEmployed123 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 9:58 am

This is a highly debated topic, but I believe the following blog post may provide some useful information: http://jlcollinsnh.com/2013/05/29/why-y ... nvestment/

In general and on average your money is probably better put to use in the stock market as money invested will generate income through dividends and appreciation. With your mortgage nearly paid off you would be able to take your current house payment and invest that every month, which could grow your wealth exponentially. You only earn money from your primary residence in the form of appreciation, which on average is the same as inflation (although individual markets may vary). For a larger house the higher property taxes, cost of an additional mortgage, etc. must also be taken into account. Also when you buy a bigger house it will cause a lot of ancillary spending to decorate/fill up that house, which will in the end result in a lower net worth. Money you spend now is money that won't be working for you in the long run.

However, it's not all about dollars and cents. Where you live is a lifestyle decision as much as a financial one. Ask yourself if you and your family are happy with your current lifestyle. Do you need a bigger house or just want a bigger house?

bloom2708
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by bloom2708 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:01 am

Your 60 year old self wants the smaller house, more investments and retiring early.

Don't just do something. Stand there. :wink:
"We are here not to please but to provoke thoughtfulness" Unknown Boglehead

Hogan773
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by Hogan773 » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:02 am

As others said, you spend a heck of a lot of time in your house, so only you can decide how much tangible/psychological benefit you will get with the extra space. There is likely a sweet spot for everyone where you move from cramped to enough space to really enjoy and stretch out, and then going bigger just gets to the point of "excess" or "because I can" or "because I want to impress my friends" or whatever. I knew someone who had 9 bathrooms in their mansion and it was just husband and wife. The guy joked that he needed to walk around periodically to flush the toilets to keep them from drying out. That would seem excessive to me unless they had lots of family that comes to visit often. Not saying that your upper end is at all in that last category by the way. I like to cheap out on lots of things in life, but when I bought a house I KNEW that I wanted to get a larger house the first time, and also get a newer house rather than an old one "with charm". I like the open feeling of newer houses with more windows and open floorplans and 9ft ceilings and hardwood floors but that is just me. It was something I was willing to spend on, and I've been in the house 14 yrs and really still enjoy it.

Basically if you think you will get a meaningful bump in happiness day in and day out then definitely spend the money if you have it. IF spending the money will mean that whatever happiness you gain from the larger home is swamped by a feeling that you now have no money and have put your financial life at risk etc, then I would be cautious.

GAAP
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by GAAP » Fri Apr 27, 2018 10:06 am

OneWorld111 wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:56 pm
thoughts please on
1. Do you think having a $300k house will affect Net Worth as it will have overall less appreciation in value? Hence better off buying $500k house
2. Would you buy a bigger house at 45 yrs knowing that in 10-12 yrs, u may downsize as kids will be out, etc...
3. Of course family wants bigger house n think I m overdoing stuff
4. Anything else

BR,
OneWorld
1. Houses generally appreciate fairly close to the inflation rate over time, so the rate of appreciation is no different. The total amount is more, but you have to spend more to buy it. Actually, given what mortgage rates around here have been doing, it's quite possible that the new house would end up costing you more as a percentage of net worth. Add insurance and maintenance, and it becomes even more likely.

Keep in mind, you don't magically create net worth when you buy a house -- you invest some combination of capital and debt that equals the house value less the acquisition costs. Unless the house is priced under value, you lose net worth with the purchase. The sales cost for your current house should be considered as part of the acquisition cost.

Example: Sell $300K house with 6% commission and expenses, net worth goes down by $18K. Buy a $500K house with 2% expenses, lose another $10K. Your true cost for that house is $528K. Assuming you could sell it immediately, you would need to get a price of about $562K to break even with that same 6% load.

2. That would depend a great deal on how many kids, what ages and genders, how big the current house is, etc. It is much easier to keep "stuff" limited by a small house than a larger house -- or to downsize it later to fit in a smaller house.

3. Who exactly is "family"? Unless your children's friends are next door, they'll always want something shiny and new. If it's your spouse, then you both need to discuss this some more.

4. Don't be suckered by rising housing prices. Yes, overall prices rise faster than inflation, but the real stats for same-house sales tell a different story. If you want to get the new house prices, you'll need to add the new house features -- making the additional capital investments that justify the price difference in the first place.

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prudent
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by prudent » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:06 pm

Topic moved to Personal Finance (Not Investing).

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Pajamas
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by Pajamas » Fri Apr 27, 2018 1:36 pm

OneWorld111 wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:56 pm
=
1. Do you think having a $300k house will affect Net Worth as it will have overall less appreciation in value? Hence better off buying $500k house
You should really question this if you are thinking that buying a $500k house is better financially than owning a $300k house.

A house has many costs associated with it and doesn't generate any income. It depreciates over time as it ages and needs repairs and upgrades. Much of the increase in housing value over time has to do with inflation. It's not an investment. You should expect to be better off as far as net worth if you invest instead of buying a bigger house.

If you want to buy a more expensive house and can afford to do so, then do so, but don't try to rationalize it as an investment.

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jharkin
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by jharkin » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:37 am

Why are you concerned about the larger house being a 1990s build?

Arabesque
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by Arabesque » Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:03 am

I thought about a bigger house when my teens were noisy, but decided it was nice to know what they were up to.

GAAP
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by GAAP » Sat Apr 28, 2018 9:20 am

Arabesque wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 8:03 am
I thought about a bigger house when my teens were noisy, but decided it was nice to know what they were up to.
Talk about mixed blessings...

finite_difference
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by finite_difference » Sat Apr 28, 2018 12:26 pm

What about finishing an attic or basement or doing a small addition? If you can upgrade your house for $25-75k vs spending $200k, I would think that would have a significant impact on net worth. That difference is about the cost of 1-3 college educations.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

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randomizer
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by randomizer » Sat Apr 28, 2018 1:10 pm

Small house.
75:25 — HODL the course!

furikake
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by furikake » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:07 pm

Life is too short, if it makes you happier and affordability is not an issue, go for it.

StealthRabbit
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by StealthRabbit » Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:40 pm

many great replies here!

Yes, life is VERY short, do what suits you, as either choice has cost / benefit.

Having traded 30+ properties a few thoughts:
1) Primary house is not always an asset, and can often be a liability (anchor chain)
2) A Radical view... $500k could be spinning off $5k / month and 1/2 of that would rent a very nice place many locations in the world.(Toronto to Tahiti), while also adding $2500 to your monthly paycheck / discretionary spending.
3) Larger house: (presuming +$200k = larger in this case)
a) higher capital expense (less $$ actually WORKING for you)
b) higher taxes
c) higher insurance
d) higher replacement and maint costs
e) potentially fewer buyers (as people might downsize, depends... but at some point big = TOO big to resell in market.
f) More expensive house can reduce future buyer pool (Qualification + above points)
g) more to clean, carpet, paint, roof, siding. More doors / windows to replace / maintain

Of course Real Estate is a LOCATION dependent investment (?) and very illiquid. (in case future life changes force you to change location.

We have generally done very well on our RE, BUT we have also lost $100k a few times when the market / zoning / jobs / economy / civic growth (All things OUT of our control) 're-adjusted' our net worth / RE investment (?).

Do what best suits your current and projected needs and desires.

For me... FIRE (getting financially independent) ASAP was foremost! (having cared for a disabled (uninsured) parent for 30+ yrs, I realized life happens in spite of your best efforts and dreams). Don't torpedo the future of others who may end up caring for you, by making regressive choices while you have your mind about you!

Ben Mathew
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by Ben Mathew » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:37 pm

OneWorld111 wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:56 pm
1. Do you think having a $300k house will affect Net Worth as it will have overall less appreciation in value? Hence better off buying $500k house
This one is easy -- no.

The full return of investing in a property is the rent that the property generates plus its price appreciation. When you live in a property that you own, you are consuming the rents yourself, leaving only the appreciation. So you are getting only a part of the return, not the full return a proper investor gets. So a house that you live in is never a good investment--you could always have made more by renting it out.

Applying this to your situation, if you continue living in your $300k house, and invest the remaining $200k in another property, you will come out ahead because you are now collecting the price appreciation on $500k plus the rent on $200k. Of course, you don't have to literally buy another property yourself for $200k and rent it out. You could invest through investment vehicles like REITs. But the principle remains.

delamer
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by delamer » Sat Apr 28, 2018 3:57 pm

StealthRabbit wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:40 pm
many great replies here!

Yes, life is VERY short, do what suits you, as either choice has cost / benefit.

Having traded 30+ properties a few thoughts:
1) Primary house is not always an asset, and can often be a liability (anchor chain)
2) A Radical view... $500k could be spinning off $5k / month and 1/2 of that would rent a very nice place many locations in the world.(Toronto to Tahiti), while also adding $2500 to your monthly paycheck / discretionary spending.
3) Larger house: (presuming +$200k = larger in this case)
a) higher capital expense (less $$ actually WORKING for you)
b) higher taxes
c) higher insurance
d) higher replacement and maint costs
e) potentially fewer buyers (as people might downsize, depends... but at some point big = TOO big to resell in market.
f) More expensive house can reduce future buyer pool (Qualification + above points)
g) more to clean, carpet, paint, roof, siding. More doors / windows to replace / maintain

Of course Real Estate is a LOCATION dependent investment (?) and very illiquid. (in case future life changes force you to change location.

We have generally done very well on our RE, BUT we have also lost $100k a few times when the market / zoning / jobs / economy / civic growth (All things OUT of our control) 're-adjusted' our net worth / RE investment (?).

Do what best suits your current and projected needs and desires.

For me... FIRE (getting financially independent) ASAP was foremost! (having cared for a disabled (uninsured) parent for 30+ yrs, I realized life happens in spite of your best efforts and dreams). Don't torpedo the future of others who may end up caring for you, by making regressive choices while you have your mind about you!
What’s the $500,000 investment that “could be spinning off $5K/month”?

cherijoh
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by cherijoh » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:04 pm

OneWorld111 wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:56 pm
Experienced BHs::

Situation:
Currently we have ~$300k house (almost paid off) and was bought few yrs ago, fully expecting at that time we will move into a bigger(additional 800-1000 sq ft) ~ $500k house. It’s been few yrs (4~6) now in $300k house and I feel uncomfortable going for $500k house due to bigger mortgage, taxes, n associated costs with bigger house as most will be built in late 1990s or early 2000s. Neighborhood only has 1990s houses and we don’t want longer commutes..I don’t have affordability problem, it’s more that I will be saving less... we max all savings 401k, save for kids, etc.. for now..

thoughts please on
1. Do you think having a $300k house will affect Net Worth as it will have overall less appreciation in value? Hence better off buying $500k house
2. Would you buy a bigger house at 45 yrs knowing that in 10-12 yrs, u may downsize as kids will be out, etc...
3. Of course family wants bigger house n think I m overdoing stuff
4. Anything else

BR,
OneWorld
Since you didn't mention whether you live in a very high, high, medium, or low cost of living area it is hard to judge what you will be getting with an extra 800-1000 square ft. In some areas $300K will barely get you a 1200 sq. ft. 3 BR/2 BA condo, but in other areas you might already have a 2800 sq. ft. 4 - 5 BR/3.5 BA house with a nice yard. If it is the former, then a larger house would definitely make sense, but in the latter maybe not so much. IMO, lots of larger homes really don't make good use of the space and the bedrooms (except for the master) aren't very much bigger than those in a much smaller home. A lot of space is dedicated to rooms which you might not use very often - e.g. a formal living room and/or formal dining room.

michaeljc70
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by michaeljc70 » Sat Apr 28, 2018 5:52 pm

OneWorld111 wrote:
Thu Apr 26, 2018 8:56 pm
Experienced BHs<span class="emoji-outer emoji-sizer"><span class="emoji-inner" style="background: url(chrome-extension://immhpnclomdloikkpcefncmfgjbkojmh/emoji-data/sheet_apple_32.png);background-position:2.056404230317274% 73.97179788484137%;background-size:5418.75% 5418.75%" data-codepoints="1f1e8-1f1ff"></span></span>

Situation:
Currently we have ~$300k house (almost paid off) and was bought few yrs ago, fully expecting at that time we will move into a bigger(additional 800-1000 sq ft) ~ $500k house. It’s been few yrs (4~6) now in $300k house and I feel uncomfortable going for $500k house due to bigger mortgage, taxes, n associated costs with bigger house as most will be built in late 1990s or early 2000s. Neighborhood only has 1990s houses and we don’t want longer commutes..I don’t have affordability problem, it’s more that I will be saving less... we max all savings 401k, save for kids, etc.. for now..

thoughts please on
1. Do you think having a $300k house will affect Net Worth as it will have overall less appreciation in value? Hence better off buying $500k house
2. Would you buy a bigger house at 45 yrs knowing that in 10-12 yrs, u may downsize as kids will be out, etc...
3. Of course family wants bigger house n think I m overdoing stuff
4. Anything else

BR,
OneWorld
No! Though houses can go up in value and generally do, you will be better off (should be..no guarantees here) funneling the extra mortgage payment money, extra maintenance money, extra utility costs, extra property tax money, etc. into investments (assuming you invest in equities to some degree). If you put your savings all in fixed income, then maybe you'd do better off putting it into a home.

finite_difference
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by finite_difference » Sat Apr 28, 2018 7:31 pm

StealthRabbit wrote:
Sat Apr 28, 2018 2:40 pm
many great replies here!

Yes, life is VERY short, do what suits you, as either choice has cost / benefit.

Having traded 30+ properties a few thoughts:
1) Primary house is not always an asset, and can often be a liability (anchor chain)
2) A Radical view... $500k could be spinning off $5k / month and 1/2 of that would rent a very nice place many locations in the world.(Toronto to Tahiti), while also adding $2500 to your monthly paycheck / discretionary spending.
3) Larger house: (presuming +$200k = larger in this case)
a) higher capital expense (less $$ actually WORKING for you)
b) higher taxes
c) higher insurance
d) higher replacement and maint costs
e) potentially fewer buyers (as people might downsize, depends... but at some point big = TOO big to resell in market.
f) More expensive house can reduce future buyer pool (Qualification + above points)
g) more to clean, carpet, paint, roof, siding. More doors / windows to replace / maintain

Of course Real Estate is a LOCATION dependent investment (?) and very illiquid. (in case future life changes force you to change location.

We have generally done very well on our RE, BUT we have also lost $100k a few times when the market / zoning / jobs / economy / civic growth (All things OUT of our control) 're-adjusted' our net worth / RE investment (?).

Do what best suits your current and projected needs and desires.

For me... FIRE (getting financially independent) ASAP was foremost! (having cared for a disabled (uninsured) parent for 30+ yrs, I realized life happens in spite of your best efforts and dreams). Don't torpedo the future of others who may end up caring for you, by making regressive choices while you have your mind about you!
How did you manage to trade 30+ properties? I couldn’t imagine moving 30x!
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh

obgraham
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by obgraham » Sun Apr 29, 2018 1:55 am

I have a very un-Boglehead view when it comes to houses. I prefer to have the house that serves the need of me and my family at the time. When we wanted something different, go for it, and trade up or down as the situation suggests.

So now, retired, we are in a house with everything on one level except a guest suite in the basement, and everything designed for easy maintenance. Once the kids moved on, we sold our bigger place, went smaller. I can't understand why so many retired folks hang on to a large cumbersome house they can't take care of "because it holds memories" or "because the kids might visit", etc.

So my advice to OP: If you and the family want a bigger place, go for it. Sell it later on. It's not always about the potential capital gain.

msk
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by msk » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:28 am

Affordability: home should cost no more than 3x single income or 2.5x combined income (with spouse's). Big picture. I tend to ignore all those intricacies regarding mortgage payments, etc.
Desirability: It sounds as if your current house is on the small side for the family size. Beyond a certain size commonsense has little to do with it. Myself and DW live in a 14,000 sq ft home with all kids having left home. So you won't be alone if you oversize absurdly.
As an investment: you are either speculating or not. If you are speculating, expecting that the house will appreciate faster than the SP500, then just admit it and decide accordingly. Roughly speaking either house ought to keep up with inflation.

Good luck. You'll have to live with either decision...

mouses
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Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by mouses » Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:42 am

I am baffled as to why people now think they need gigantic houses. For many decades families lived happily in much smaller houses and actually interacted with each other instead of holing up in different areas. That's back when families used to eat dinner together, etc.

Besides being bad for family relationships, it is destructive to the planet and the other species that share the planet with us, by using up resources, removing animal habitat, removing carbon sinks, and so worsening major weather disruptions, rising sea level, etc.

msk
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Joined: Mon Aug 15, 2016 10:40 am

Re: 300k vs 500k house?

Post by msk » Sun Apr 29, 2018 4:13 am

mouses wrote:
Sun Apr 29, 2018 3:42 am
I am baffled as to why people now think they need gigantic houses.
I doubt very much that anybody living in a McMansion believes he "needs" a large home. Wants and needs should not be confused. Nobody "needs" a private jet that also rapes the climate system...

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