Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

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uberme
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Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by uberme » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:12 pm

Hello everyone

Frequent reader finally posting a question; thank you everyone for so much awesome information and guidance!!

My 401K contains multiple funds, through research I've selected what I consider the best options, with a 70/30 AA (early 30's):
  • 20%, Fidelity® U.S. Bond Index Fund - Premium Class, FSITX, 0.045%
  • 10%, Fidelity® 500 Index Fund - Premium Class, FUSVX, 0.035%
  • 70%, Vanguard Target Retirement 2050 Fund Investor Shares, VFIFX, 0.15%
The Target fund has too high of an international allocation for me thus the S&P allocation.

PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive (POAGX) is available. From reading other posts here their funds are popular, even those they appear to be actively managed. I understand past performance may not repeat, it is impressive never the less how it has outpaced the S&P return wise. The question is I'm debating if I should place 10% instead into POAGX vs S&P500? Or decrease my Target fund and place some towards POAGX? Any input or suggestions are welcome. Thank you!
  • PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund, POAGX, 0.64%
Annualized returns
POAGX
YTD: 11.23%, 1 Year: 36.84%, 3 Year: 18.01%, 5 Year: 22.07%, 10 Year: 17.82%
S&P 500
YTD: 1.77%, 1 Year: 13.95%, 3 Year: 10.74%, 5 Year: 13.26%, 10 Year: 9.46%

02nz
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by 02nz » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:35 pm

All of PRIMECAP's funds (three in the Vanguard family, three under their own "Odyssey" label) are indeed actively managed. As you've no doubt noticed this is a heavily pro-indexing forum. I'm in indexed funds for the vast majority of my portfolio, but I do make an exception for PRIMECAP (POAGX, the fund you mentioned; and Vanguard PRIMECAP Core). Past performance is of course no guarantee for the future, but PRIMECAP has a lot of things going for their funds (low turnover, relatively low costs, although a bit higher in the Odyssey funds than in Vanguard). They have a rigorous team approach to investing rather than one star manager; they have largely shunned publicity; and they are based not out of Wall Street but Southern California. In other words, they do things a bit differently. Some on this forum would say the track record is mostly luck. I disagree, given the length and consistency of that track record. PRIMECAP is arguably one of the few exceptions that prove the rule about index investing. To sum up, I'm a fan. If you have access to this otherwise closed fund through your 401K and it fits with your asset allocation, you could do way, way worse than put 10% into POAGX.

(BTW the correct comparison for POAGX is mid-cap growth funds, not the S&P 500. But in that company POAGX does very well, too.)

02nz
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by 02nz » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:37 pm

Also - nothing wrong with the Target Retirement fund, but why not use the lower-cost stock and bond funds in its place? The point of a target retirement fund is set-it-and-forget-It simplicity for the entire portfolio. So if you’re going to tweak your allocation by adding other index funds, you might as well just do those funds in place of target retirement. Sure you'd have to rebalance manually, but it's easier to see your AA and rebalance as needed if you don't have to account for a balanced fund with a (slowly) changing AA.
Last edited by 02nz on Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ResearchMed
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by ResearchMed » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:40 pm

uberme wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:12 pm
Hello everyone

Frequent reader finally posting a question; thank you everyone for so much awesome information and guidance!!

My 401K contains multiple funds, through research I've selected what I consider the best options, with a 70/30 AA (early 30's):
  • 20%, Fidelity® U.S. Bond Index Fund - Premium Class, FSITX, 0.045%
  • 10%, Fidelity® 500 Index Fund - Premium Class, FUSVX, 0.035%
  • 70%, Vanguard Target Retirement 2050 Fund Investor Shares, VFIFX, 0.15%
The Target fund has too high of an international allocation for me thus the S&P allocation.

PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive (POAGX) is available. From reading other posts here their funds are popular, even those they appear to be actively managed. I understand past performance may not repeat, it is impressive never the less how it has outpaced the S&P return wise. The question is I'm debating if I should place 10% instead into POAGX vs S&P500? Or decrease my Target fund and place some towards POAGX? Any input or suggestions are welcome. Thank you!
  • PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund, POAGX, 0.64%
Annualized returns
POAGX
YTD: 11.23%, 1 Year: 36.84%, 3 Year: 18.01%, 5 Year: 22.07%, 10 Year: 17.82%
S&P 500
YTD: 1.77%, 1 Year: 13.95%, 3 Year: 10.74%, 5 Year: 13.26%, 10 Year: 9.46%
Is POAGX "open" for new investors in your plan?
I thought it was closed to new investors, but perhaps there could be exceptions.

RM
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Miriam2
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by Miriam2 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 9:58 pm

uberme wrote: PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive (POAGX) is available. From reading other posts here their funds are popular, even those they appear to be actively managed. I understand past performance may not repeat, it is impressive never the less how it has outpaced the S&P return wise. The question is I'm debating if I should place 10% instead into POAGX vs S&P500?
One consideration, for long term just-in-case planning, is that down the road, if you ever decide to roll your 401k into a Vanguard IRA and the Primecap Odyssey funds are closed to new investors at that time, since you already own it in a retirement account (your 401k) Vanguard will let you roll your Odyssey over into a new Vanguard IRA. Vanguard would not allow me to get into Primecap, which is closed to new investors, by rolling over my 401k into an IRA unless I already owned Primecap in my 401k.

Probably such long term just-in-case planning would be frowned upon by many financial types here, but sometimes we like to keep our options open :D

02nz
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by 02nz » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:13 pm

Somewhat related to Miriam2’s point: Vanguard will not let you invest in their own closed funds e.g. Vanguard PRIMECAP (unless you have Flagship), even if you have that same fund in another account with them. So if you already have VG PRIMECAP in your tIRA, you can buy more of that fund (with limits) in the tIRA but not in Roth IRA or taxable. But the Odyssey funds consider you to be an existing investor if you have that fund in ANY type of account. So, because I already held POAGX in a taxable account directly with Odyssey Funds, I was able purchase shares of POAGX in a Roth IRA held with Vanguard. Had to do this over the phone and show Vanguard my Odyssey statements but was pretty easy. (I actually did this to with the aim of effectively “moving” POAGX from taxable to Roth, given its sometimes significant CG distributions.) I would think the same applies if you hold POAGX in a 401k and want to buy shares in say a Roth IRA. Sorry if that’s a bit confusing but hope it may be helpful.

Miriam2
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by Miriam2 » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:23 pm

02nz wrote: Somewhat related to Miriam2’s point: Vanguard will not let you invest in their own closed funds e.g. Vanguard PRIMECAP (unless you have Flagship), even if you have that same fund in another account with them. So if you already have VG PRIMECAP in your tIRA, you can buy more of that fund (with limits) in the tIRA but not in Roth IRA or taxable. But the Odyssey funds consider you to be an existing investor if you have that fund in ANY type of account. So, because I already held POAGX in a taxable account directly with Odyssey Funds, I was able purchase shares of POAGX in a Roth IRA held with Vanguard. Had to do this over the phone and show Vanguard my Odyssey statements but was pretty easy. (I actually did this to with the aim of effectively “moving” POAGX from taxable to Roth, given its sometimes significant CG distributions.) I would think the same applies if you hold POAGX in a 401k and want to buy shares in say a Roth IRA. Sorry if that’s a bit confusing but hope it may be helpful.
Interesting, thank you.
Does Vanguard still charge you $20 each time you buy shares of Odyssey funds?

02nz
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by 02nz » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:26 pm

Yes they do. It’s the price I pay for having my Roth IRA all in one place. Not too big a deal since I plan to add to it just once a year. Apparently Schwab charges something like $76 per purchase (since it’s not one of their no transaction fee funds), so $20 seems like a bargain!
Last edited by 02nz on Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

aristotelian
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by aristotelian » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:26 pm

My employer plan recently added POAGX and I put some play money in there as the index funds in my plan actually have just as high expense ratios. I worry that it is concentrated in its top holding, Nektar Therapeutic (8%), but certainly can't complain. I think it is up about 10% this year while the market has been flat.

02nz
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by 02nz » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:31 pm

aristotelian wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:26 pm
My employer plan recently added POAGX and I put some play money in there as the index funds in my plan actually have just as high expense ratios. I worry that it is concentrated in its top holding, Nektar Therapeutic (8%), but certainly can't complain. I think it is up about 10% this year while the market has been flat.
I think that concentration is largely because of how much NKTR has gone up recently. The holding was closer to 4% before (if I’m remembering right), and the managers have recently sold part of the NKTR position (rebalancing!).

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ResearchMed
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by ResearchMed » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:40 pm

02nz wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:13 pm
Somewhat related to Miriam2’s point: Vanguard will not let you invest in their own closed funds e.g. Vanguard PRIMECAP (unless you have Flagship), even if you have that same fund in another account with them. So if you already have VG PRIMECAP in your tIRA, you can buy more of that fund (with limits) in the tIRA but not in Roth IRA or taxable. But the Odyssey funds consider you to be an existing investor if you have that fund in ANY type of account. So, because I already held POAGX in a taxable account directly with Odyssey Funds, I was able purchase shares of POAGX in a Roth IRA held with Vanguard. Had to do this over the phone and show Vanguard my Odyssey statements but was pretty easy. (I actually did this to with the aim of effectively “moving” POAGX from taxable to Roth, given its sometimes significant CG distributions.) I would think the same applies if you hold POAGX in a 401k and want to buy shares in say a Roth IRA. Sorry if that’s a bit confusing but hope it may be helpful.
Hmmm. I didn't know that Odyssey Funds will let you purchase more in a different account if you already own that fund in one account.

Did you have to contact Odyssey to contact [Vanguard/Fidelity/Schwab/etc.] or could the vendor handle it and confirm the other holding with Odyssey?

Thanks for the info!
I had just been regretting not buying more (while POAGX was open) in an IRA, because 403b holdings cannot be transferred "in kind", the way IRA holdings can be.

RM
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El Greco
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by El Greco » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:48 pm

I've owned PRIMECAP Core for about 18 years. Very happy I do. As stated before, they are a great management Team, not just one star manager.. They must be doing something right because they've been doing it right for a very long time. If I had the opportunity to get into one of their funds, I would take it. At just 10% of your allocation, I would say it's a "flyer" worth taking.

02nz
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by 02nz » Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:57 pm

ResearchMed wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:40 pm
02nz wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:13 pm
Somewhat related to Miriam2’s point: Vanguard will not let you invest in their own closed funds e.g. Vanguard PRIMECAP (unless you have Flagship), even if you have that same fund in another account with them. So if you already have VG PRIMECAP in your tIRA, you can buy more of that fund (with limits) in the tIRA but not in Roth IRA or taxable. But the Odyssey funds consider you to be an existing investor if you have that fund in ANY type of account. So, because I already held POAGX in a taxable account directly with Odyssey Funds, I was able purchase shares of POAGX in a Roth IRA held with Vanguard. Had to do this over the phone and show Vanguard my Odyssey statements but was pretty easy. (I actually did this to with the aim of effectively “moving” POAGX from taxable to Roth, given its sometimes significant CG distributions.) I would think the same applies if you hold POAGX in a 401k and want to buy shares in say a Roth IRA. Sorry if that’s a bit confusing but hope it may be helpful.
Hmmm. I didn't know that Odyssey Funds will let you purchase more in a different account if you already own that fund in one account.

Did you have to contact Odyssey to contact [Vanguard/Fidelity/Schwab/etc.] or could the vendor handle it and confirm the other holding with Odyssey?

Thanks for the info!
I had just been regretting not buying more (while POAGX was open) in an IRA, because 403b holdings cannot be transferred "in kind", the way IRA holdings can be.

RM
I just called Vanguard (where I already held the Roth IRA but didn’t have any shares of POAGX) and told them that Odyssey said I could invest in a new account because I already had shares in another account (taxable, held directly w Odyssey). Odyssey explicitly states so in their prospectus (http://hosted.rightprospectus.com/docum ... pectus.pdf, see page 27). VG processed the order and it went through no problem. Out of curiosity I asked Schwab if they could do the same, answer was no, you have to already hold that closed fund at Schwab. If in doubt re: 403b, i suggest calling Odyssey directly to confirm the policy. They have very helpful phone agents - better than VG.

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by ResearchMed » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:00 am

02nz wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:57 pm
ResearchMed wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:40 pm
02nz wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:13 pm
Somewhat related to Miriam2’s point: Vanguard will not let you invest in their own closed funds e.g. Vanguard PRIMECAP (unless you have Flagship), even if you have that same fund in another account with them. So if you already have VG PRIMECAP in your tIRA, you can buy more of that fund (with limits) in the tIRA but not in Roth IRA or taxable. But the Odyssey funds consider you to be an existing investor if you have that fund in ANY type of account. So, because I already held POAGX in a taxable account directly with Odyssey Funds, I was able purchase shares of POAGX in a Roth IRA held with Vanguard. Had to do this over the phone and show Vanguard my Odyssey statements but was pretty easy. (I actually did this to with the aim of effectively “moving” POAGX from taxable to Roth, given its sometimes significant CG distributions.) I would think the same applies if you hold POAGX in a 401k and want to buy shares in say a Roth IRA. Sorry if that’s a bit confusing but hope it may be helpful.
Hmmm. I didn't know that Odyssey Funds will let you purchase more in a different account if you already own that fund in one account.

Did you have to contact Odyssey to contact [Vanguard/Fidelity/Schwab/etc.] or could the vendor handle it and confirm the other holding with Odyssey?

Thanks for the info!
I had just been regretting not buying more (while POAGX was open) in an IRA, because 403b holdings cannot be transferred "in kind", the way IRA holdings can be.

RM
I just called Vanguard (where I already held the Roth IRA but didn’t have any shares of POAGX) and told them that Odyssey said I could invest in a new account because I already had shares in another account (taxable, held directly w Odyssey). Odyssey explicitly states so in their prospectus (http://hosted.rightprospectus.com/docum ... pectus.pdf, see page 27). VG processed the order and it went through no problem. Out of curiosity I asked Schwab if they could do the same, answer was no, you have to already hold that closed fund at Schwab. If in doubt re: 403b, i suggest calling Odyssey directly to confirm the policy. They have very helpful phone agents - better than VG.
Thanks!
Yup, I was going to call Odyssey first, rather than try telling Vanguard, "Well, I read on the internet..." :oops:

Interesting about Schwab.
Usually they are the easiest.
Well, once I've got it in an IRA at Vanguard, I can later transfer in kind to Schwab...

I usually try to get something about to close (assuming we want or already have it) into both 403b AND IRA, even if just a trivial amount as a placeholder. Guess I messed up with this one, and it's one of the best!

Thanks again. I had no idea about this.

RM
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HAWK23
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by HAWK23 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 am

I'm glad thus question was brought up because I have a similar one:

Does anyone have any thoughts on PRIMECAP Odyssey Stock Fund (POSKX)? ER (.67). This is one of remaining funds I have yet to liquidate from transferring my IRA from EDJ to Vanguard. I haven't liquidated this one yet because it looks pretty solid.

What is the difference between this fund and POAGX (the one being discussed here)?

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by Toons » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:14 am

El Greco wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:48 pm
I've owned PRIMECAP Core for about 18 years. Very happy I do. As stated before, they are a great management Team, not just one star manager.. They must be doing something right because they've been doing it right for a very long time. If I had the opportunity to get into one of their funds, I would take it. At just 10% of your allocation, I would say it's a "flyer" worth taking.

Ditto
:happy
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by aristotelian » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:45 am

02nz wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:31 pm
I think that concentration is largely because of how much NKTR has gone up recently. The holding was closer to 4% before (if I’m remembering right), and the managers have recently sold part of the NKTR position (rebalancing!).
That's what I suspected. Do you have a link by any chance stating their rebalancing policy or recent sale of NKTR? I am still seeing it at 8% on Morningstar.

02nz
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by 02nz » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:42 am

HAWK23 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 am
I'm glad thus question was brought up because I have a similar one:

Does anyone have any thoughts on PRIMECAP Odyssey Stock Fund (POSKX)? ER (.67). This is one of remaining funds I have yet to liquidate from transferring my IRA from EDJ to Vanguard. I haven't liquidated this one yet because it looks pretty solid.

What is the difference between this fund and POAGX (the one being discussed here)?
POSKX is a VERY close match for VG PRIMECAP Core, which is closed unless you have Flagship. Both are good funds but in a different category (large-cap blend) from POAGX (mid-cap growth).
Last edited by 02nz on Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.

02nz
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by 02nz » Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:57 am

aristotelian wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:45 am
02nz wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:31 pm
I think that concentration is largely because of how much NKTR has gone up recently. The holding was closer to 4% before (if I’m remembering right), and the managers have recently sold part of the NKTR position (rebalancing!).
That's what I suspected. Do you have a link by any chance stating their rebalancing policy or recent sale of NKTR? I am still seeing it at 8% on Morningstar.
According to Morningstar POAGX sold 356,400 shares (out of 13 million) of NKTR - admittedly a very small portion. As of Oct 31 last year NKTR was about 3.7% of the portfolio - it's had a massive runup since then.

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:28 am

02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:57 am
aristotelian wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:45 am
02nz wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:31 pm
I think that concentration is largely because of how much NKTR has gone up recently. The holding was closer to 4% before (if I’m remembering right), and the managers have recently sold part of the NKTR position (rebalancing!).
That's what I suspected. Do you have a link by any chance stating their rebalancing policy or recent sale of NKTR? I am still seeing it at 8% on Morningstar.
According to Morningstar POAGX sold 356,400 shares (out of 13 million) of NKTR - admittedly a very small portion. As of Oct 31 last year NKTR was about 3.7% of the portfolio - it's had a massive runup since then.
Well, the company reported good results on a potential cancer drug, then it received a $3.8 billion investment by a large cap pharma - Bristol Myers Squibb, when that news broke the stock really rocketed up. Not bad for a company that was trading in the low 20's before the release of their phase 1 trials. But, investing in biotech is high risk/reward so one must be cognizant that failures will be dealt with severely by the marketplace.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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uberme
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by uberme » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:13 pm

Awesome responses as always! Thanks everyone! I adjusted my AA to put some towards POAGX :sharebeer

Deighve
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by Deighve » Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:23 pm

02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:42 am
HAWK23 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 am
I'm glad thus question was brought up because I have a similar one:

Does anyone have any thoughts on PRIMECAP Odyssey Stock Fund (POSKX)? ER (.67). This is one of remaining funds I have yet to liquidate from transferring my IRA from EDJ to Vanguard. I haven't liquidated this one yet because it looks pretty solid.

What is the difference between this fund and POAGX (the one being discussed here)?
POSKX is a VERY close match for VG PRIMECAP Core, which is closed unless you have Flagship. Both are good funds but in a different category (large-cap blend) from POAGX (mid-cap growth).

Thank you. I actually had the same question.
Any thoughts on which one to pick if adding to a three fund portfolio?

Hanksmoney
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by Hanksmoney » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:10 pm

02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:42 am
HAWK23 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 am
I'm glad thus question was brought up because I have a similar one:

Does anyone have any thoughts on PRIMECAP Odyssey Stock Fund (POSKX)? ER (.67). This is one of remaining funds I have yet to liquidate from transferring my IRA from EDJ to Vanguard. I haven't liquidated this one yet because it looks pretty solid.

What is the difference between this fund and POAGX (the one being discussed here)?
POSKX is a VERY close match for VG PRIMECAP Core, which is closed unless you have Flagship. Both are good funds but in a different category (large-cap blend) from POAGX (mid-cap growth).

It looks like my Vanguard ROTH has POSKX available for $2000 minimums. Are there additional fees associated with this because it's not a Vanguard fund? Are there other Odyssey/PRIMECAP funds still available to the run-of-the-mill VG Roth owner?

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ResearchMed
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by ResearchMed » Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:21 pm

Deighve wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:23 pm
02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:42 am
HAWK23 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 am
I'm glad thus question was brought up because I have a similar one:

Does anyone have any thoughts on PRIMECAP Odyssey Stock Fund (POSKX)? ER (.67). This is one of remaining funds I have yet to liquidate from transferring my IRA from EDJ to Vanguard. I haven't liquidated this one yet because it looks pretty solid.

What is the difference between this fund and POAGX (the one being discussed here)?
POSKX is a VERY close match for VG PRIMECAP Core, which is closed unless you have Flagship. Both are good funds but in a different category (large-cap blend) from POAGX (mid-cap growth).

Thank you. I actually had the same question.
Any thoughts on which one to pick if adding to a three fund portfolio?
POAGX has been very "good" in the past.
But keep in mind that might not continue (no such guarantees, alas!).
Also, there have definitely been times of "lesser" performance, so it's something to monitor and probably plan to hold very long term.
(Always a very tricky concern if results start to lag... is this the 'end of a good luck run' or is it just a time when their active management didn't work quite so well, and it's likely to pick up again...)

ETA: For any 'closed' fund that we "get out of", we usually leave a small foothold, in case we change our minds.
Ditto if a fund we've been eyeing has announced a closure... get just a tiny amount.
(Rarely, funds close without any prior notice.)

RM
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02nz
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by 02nz » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:47 pm

Deighve wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 12:23 pm
02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:42 am
HAWK23 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 am
I'm glad thus question was brought up because I have a similar one:

Does anyone have any thoughts on PRIMECAP Odyssey Stock Fund (POSKX)? ER (.67). This is one of remaining funds I have yet to liquidate from transferring my IRA from EDJ to Vanguard. I haven't liquidated this one yet because it looks pretty solid.

What is the difference between this fund and POAGX (the one being discussed here)?
POSKX is a VERY close match for VG PRIMECAP Core, which is closed unless you have Flagship. Both are good funds but in a different category (large-cap blend) from POAGX (mid-cap growth).

Thank you. I actually had the same question.
Any thoughts on which one to pick if adding to a three fund portfolio?
I’d go with POAGX (if you access to it) if adding to a three fund portfolio. It gives you more exposure to small and mid-caps which don’t make up much of the total stock market. If you have access to VPCCX (e g Flagship) it’s preferable to the very similar POSKX as its ER is lower.
Last edited by 02nz on Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

02nz
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by 02nz » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:51 pm

Hanksmoney wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:10 pm
02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:42 am
HAWK23 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 am
I'm glad thus question was brought up because I have a similar one:

Does anyone have any thoughts on PRIMECAP Odyssey Stock Fund (POSKX)? ER (.67). This is one of remaining funds I have yet to liquidate from transferring my IRA from EDJ to Vanguard. I haven't liquidated this one yet because it looks pretty solid.

What is the difference between this fund and POAGX (the one being discussed here)?
POSKX is a VERY close match for VG PRIMECAP Core, which is closed unless you have Flagship. Both are good funds but in a different category (large-cap blend) from POAGX (mid-cap growth).

It looks like my Vanguard ROTH has POSKX available for $2000 minimums. Are there additional fees associated with this because it's not a Vanguard fund? Are there other Odyssey/PRIMECAP funds still available to the run-of-the-mill VG Roth owner?
$20 per purchase through Vanguard. Odyssey Growth (POGRX) is the only other PRIMECAP managed fund open to new investors. It’s similar to VG PRIMECAP but not quite as close as the match between POSKX and VPCCX. (Odyssey Aggressive Growth is closest to VG Capital Opportunity but both are closed.)

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by ResearchMed » Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:56 pm

Thanks again for the information about "current fundholders" being able to purchase in a different account.

I was indeed just able to buy "more" in an IRA (where there was currently no POAGX), in addition to the amount we already have in a 403b.
Got that done, just in case they change the rules... one never knows...

RM
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by HAWK23 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:24 pm

02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:51 pm
Hanksmoney wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:10 pm
02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:42 am
HAWK23 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 am
I'm glad thus question was brought up because I have a similar one:

Does anyone have any thoughts on PRIMECAP Odyssey Stock Fund (POSKX)? ER (.67). This is one of remaining funds I have yet to liquidate from transferring my IRA from EDJ to Vanguard. I haven't liquidated this one yet because it looks pretty solid.

What is the difference between this fund and POAGX (the one being discussed here)?
POSKX is a VERY close match for VG PRIMECAP Core, which is closed unless you have Flagship. Both are good funds but in a different category (large-cap blend) from POAGX (mid-cap growth).

It looks like my Vanguard ROTH has POSKX available for $2000 minimums. Are there additional fees associated with this because it's not a Vanguard fund? Are there other Odyssey/PRIMECAP funds still available to the run-of-the-mill VG Roth owner?
$20 per purchase through Vanguard. Odyssey Growth (POGRX) is the only other PRIMECAP managed fund open to new investors. It’s similar to VG PRIMECAP but not quite as close as the match between POSKX and VPCCX. (Odyssey Aggressive Growth is closest to VG Capital Opportunity but both are closed.)

Thank you to those of you who added some comments about POSKX. Sounds like a good fund to keep around. It'll be one of only two funds from EJ that ends up avoiding liquidation. After the transfer, this fund too, would cost $20 fee to add to it (so if I were to do this I'd only want to add a couple of times per year in big chunks). At the very least it sounds like it would be smart to keep a little bit of money in it to keep it as a placeholder. I only have approx $600 in the fund right now despite the 2K minimum. EJ must have had a deal with them to get into the fund at a lower amount.

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by 02nz » Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:45 pm

HAWK23 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:24 pm
I only have approx $600 in the fund right now despite the 2K minimum.
Note that if you redeem shares and the balance falls below $500, the remaining shares may be redeemed and your account closed, per the prospectus. They will not do this if you fall below $500 due only to changes in the fund's share price.

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by Miriam2 » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:11 pm

Deighve wrote: Any thoughts on which one to pick if adding to a three fund portfolio?
Buy both now before they close. Don't tell Taylor :wink:

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by aristotelian » Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:48 pm

Miriam2 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:11 pm
Deighve wrote: Any thoughts on which one to pick if adding to a three fund portfolio?
Buy both now before they close. Don't tell Taylor :wink:
The only have 100 or so stocks each, so diversification might not be a bad idea. POAGX is more of a mid cap-growth fund while POSKX is large value, so you could also choose based on which way you want to tilt.

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by jerryk68 » Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:11 pm

HAWK23 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 5:24 pm
02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:51 pm
Hanksmoney wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:10 pm
02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:42 am
HAWK23 wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:09 am
I'm glad thus question was brought up because I have a similar one:

Does anyone have any thoughts on PRIMECAP Odyssey Stock Fund (POSKX)? ER (.67). This is one of remaining funds I have yet to liquidate from transferring my IRA from EDJ to Vanguard. I haven't liquidated this one yet because it looks pretty solid.

What is the difference between this fund and POAGX (the one being discussed here)?
POSKX is a VERY close match for VG PRIMECAP Core, which is closed unless you have Flagship. Both are good funds but in a different category (large-cap blend) from POAGX (mid-cap growth).

It looks like my Vanguard ROTH has POSKX available for $2000 minimums. Are there additional fees associated with this because it's not a Vanguard fund? Are there other Odyssey/PRIMECAP funds still available to the run-of-the-mill VG Roth owner?
$20 per purchase through Vanguard. Odyssey Growth (POGRX) is the only other PRIMECAP managed fund open to new investors. It’s similar to VG PRIMECAP but not quite as close as the match between POSKX and VPCCX. (Odyssey Aggressive Growth is closest to VG Capital Opportunity but both are closed.)

Thank you to those of you who added some comments about POSKX. Sounds like a good fund to keep around. It'll be one of only two funds from EJ that ends up avoiding liquidation. After the transfer, this fund too, would cost $20 fee to add to it (so if I were to do this I'd only want to add a couple of times per year in big chunks). At the very least it sounds like it would be smart to keep a little bit of money in it to keep it as a placeholder. I only have approx $600 in the fund right now despite the 2K minimum. EJ must have had a deal with them to get into the fund at a lower amount.
Why not go direct and save the $20 bucks?

http://primecap.com/index.html

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by aristotelian » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:05 pm

Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:28 am
02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:57 am
aristotelian wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:45 am
02nz wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:31 pm
I think that concentration is largely because of how much NKTR has gone up recently. The holding was closer to 4% before (if I’m remembering right), and the managers have recently sold part of the NKTR position (rebalancing!).
That's what I suspected. Do you have a link by any chance stating their rebalancing policy or recent sale of NKTR? I am still seeing it at 8% on Morningstar.
According to Morningstar POAGX sold 356,400 shares (out of 13 million) of NKTR - admittedly a very small portion. As of Oct 31 last year NKTR was about 3.7% of the portfolio - it's had a massive runup since then.
Well, the company reported good results on a potential cancer drug, then it received a $3.8 billion investment by a large cap pharma - Bristol Myers Squibb, when that news broke the stock really rocketed up. Not bad for a company that was trading in the low 20's before the release of their phase 1 trials. But, investing in biotech is high risk/reward so one must be cognizant that failures will be dealt with severely by the marketplace.
Doh. Nektar down 40% today. Looks like Primecap did not liquidate their position. POAGX down 3% on an up day. Primecap giveth, Primecap taketh away.

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by cfs » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:05 pm

Actually, here is the status of Odyssey Funds (today as per Primecap website):

-- Primecap Odyssey Stock Fund (POSKX) up 0.22
-- Primecap Odyssey Growth Fund (POGRX) down 0.56
-- Primecap Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund (POAGX) down 1.65

Tomorrow they could recover big time and move on (or maybe not). . . good luck, y gracias por leer ~cfs~
~ Member of the Active Retired Force since 2014 ~

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by Grt2bOutdoors » Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:55 pm

aristotelian wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:05 pm
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:28 am
02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:57 am
aristotelian wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:45 am
02nz wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:31 pm
I think that concentration is largely because of how much NKTR has gone up recently. The holding was closer to 4% before (if I’m remembering right), and the managers have recently sold part of the NKTR position (rebalancing!).
That's what I suspected. Do you have a link by any chance stating their rebalancing policy or recent sale of NKTR? I am still seeing it at 8% on Morningstar.
According to Morningstar POAGX sold 356,400 shares (out of 13 million) of NKTR - admittedly a very small portion. As of Oct 31 last year NKTR was about 3.7% of the portfolio - it's had a massive runup since then.
Well, the company reported good results on a potential cancer drug, then it received a $3.8 billion investment by a large cap pharma - Bristol Myers Squibb, when that news broke the stock really rocketed up. Not bad for a company that was trading in the low 20's before the release of their phase 1 trials. But, investing in biotech is high risk/reward so one must be cognizant that failures will be dealt with severely by the marketplace.
Doh. Nektar down 40% today. Looks like Primecap did not liquidate their position. POAGX down 3% on an up day. Primecap giveth, Primecap taketh away.
Over reaction on the part of those who failed math and reading comprehension. It will come back. The point of investing is to stay the course. While I don’t own Primecap, I like managers who can stay the course with their convictions. Index investing is similar, they hold through thick and thin. :)
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by aristotelian » Tue Jun 05, 2018 2:28 am

cfs wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 7:05 pm
Actually, here is the status of Odyssey Funds (today as per Primecap website):

-- Primecap Odyssey Stock Fund (POSKX) up 0.22
-- Primecap Odyssey Growth Fund (POGRX) down 0.56
-- Primecap Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund (POAGX) down 1.65

Tomorrow they could recover big time and move on (or maybe not). . . good luck, y gracias por leer ~cfs~
That is $1.65 or 3.2%.

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by jnk715 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:26 am

I am confused, I thought POAGX was closed to new investors. Leaving just POSKX and POGRX open. If not, how do I buy in? Does anyone hold these funds in a taxable account?

Bodhi312
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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by Bodhi312 » Tue Jun 05, 2018 11:54 pm

aristotelian wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:05 pm
Grt2bOutdoors wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:28 am
02nz wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:57 am
aristotelian wrote:
Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:45 am
02nz wrote:
Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:31 pm
I think that concentration is largely because of how much NKTR has gone up recently. The holding was closer to 4% before (if I’m remembering right), and the managers have recently sold part of the NKTR position (rebalancing!).
That's what I suspected. Do you have a link by any chance stating their rebalancing policy or recent sale of NKTR? I am still seeing it at 8% on Morningstar.
According to Morningstar POAGX sold 356,400 shares (out of 13 million) of NKTR - admittedly a very small portion. As of Oct 31 last year NKTR was about 3.7% of the portfolio - it's had a massive runup since then.
Well, the company reported good results on a potential cancer drug, then it received a $3.8 billion investment by a large cap pharma - Bristol Myers Squibb, when that news broke the stock really rocketed up. Not bad for a company that was trading in the low 20's before the release of their phase 1 trials. But, investing in biotech is high risk/reward so one must be cognizant that failures will be dealt with severely by the marketplace.
Doh. Nektar down 40% today. Looks like Primecap did not liquidate their position. POAGX down 3% on an up day. Primecap giveth, Primecap taketh away.
Primecap runs relatively concentrated portfolios, idiosyncratic risk should be expected to manifest. I own POGRX and POSKX; I’d be more upset if I were paying %0.70 (or so) for a closet index fund.

Comparing a single day’s performance (or any short time frame) to the broad market’s performance really doesn’t make a lot of sense in such contexts.

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by 02nz » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:11 am

POAGX is still up 5.87% YTD. VTSAX is down 0.23% and Vanguard Mid-Cap Growth Index up 0.79%.

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Re: Should I be investing in PRIMECAP Odyssey Aggressive Growth Fund?

Post by aristotelian » Wed Jun 06, 2018 3:17 pm

jnk715 wrote:
Tue Jun 05, 2018 7:26 am
I am confused, I thought POAGX was closed to new investors. Leaving just POSKX and POGRX open. If not, how do I buy in? Does anyone hold these funds in a taxable account?
I was lucky enough to have it added to my employer plan through TIAA and the expense ratio is actually only a few points higher than the index funds they offer.

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