Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

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MO MAN
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Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:41 pm

Hi Guys, been following you guys for a while, and finally decided to join up, and get my investments in order. And it should have been done a long time ago, as I was paying hi front loads and high ER and at 58 years old, it has cost me a lot of money I see. Won't need any money for about ten years. This is what I have done so far. Opened a account with Vanguard, moved some money in, with more Roll overs to go. My wife and I have invested in these 3 funds, VTSAX, VHCIX, and VITAX. Looking for 3 more good funds with low ER. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.

PFInterest
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by PFInterest » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:10 pm

you only need three. if you have been following this site for a while, why did you only pick 1 of them?

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by Taylor Larimore » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:25 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:41 pm
Hi Guys, been following you guys for a while, and finally decided to join up, and get my investments in order. And it should have been done a long time ago, as I was paying hi front loads and high ER and at 58 years old, it has cost me a lot of money I see. Won't need any money for about ten years. This is what I have done so far. Opened a account with Vanguard, moved some money in, with more Roll overs to go. My wife and I have invested in these 3 funds, VTSAX, VHCIX, and VITAX. Looking for 3 more good funds with low ER. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
MO MAN:

Welcome to the Bogleheads Forum!

Consider the many advantages of The Three-Fund Portfolio

Strive for simplicity--not complexity.

Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by pkcrafter » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:26 pm

This is what. :happy

viewtopic.php?f=10&t=88005

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by randomizer » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:29 pm

:sharebeer
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:41 pm

PFInterest wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:10 pm
you only need three. if you have been following this site for a while, why did you only pick 1 of them?
We picked the 3 funds I listed with Vanguard, thought maybe I needed 3 more to be more diversified. Maybe not?

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by livesoft » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:42 pm

I think people might be thrown off by VITAX. Is that a typo? VTIAX is different from VITAX.

Both VITAX and VHCIX are sector funds and not funds recommended as part of a 3-fund portfolio. So of the 3 recommended funds, you might only have VTSAX which is where the one fund comment came from.
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by RadAudit » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:47 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:41 pm
Any suggestions?
After understanding the three fund portfolio, pay special attention to the paragraph on asset allocation in the linked thread. And, a number of the recommended readings are pretty good, too.
Last edited by RadAudit on Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:52 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:48 pm

livesoft wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:42 pm
I think people might be thrown off by VITAX. Is that a typo? VTIAX is different from VITAX.

Both VITAX and VHCIX are sector funds and not funds recommended as part of a 3-fund portfolio. So of the 3 recommended funds, you might only have VTSAX which is where the one fund comment came from.
VITAX is the Tech Index fund, no load and only .10 ER is why I liked it. and the low turnover.

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:15 pm

I like the VTSAX over the VTSMX in the 3 fund portfolio. VBTLX looks ok as a 3 star bond fund, but the VGTSX looks to be some higher risk verses return I think is why it is a 3 star fund as well. I have been looking at 4 and 5 star funds, had not even given any 3 star funds a look. I must be missing something with the 3 star funds? Remember, I ain't know savoy investor boys! LOL!

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Morningstar "Stars"

Post by Taylor Larimore » Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:15 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:15 pm
I like the VTSAX over the VTSMX in the 3 fund portfolio. VBTLX looks ok as a 3 star bond fund, but the VGTSX looks to be some higher risk verses return I think is why it is a 3 star fund as well. I have been looking at 4 and 5 star funds, had not even given any 3 star funds a look. I must be missing something with the 3 star funds? Remember, I ain't know savoy investor boys! LOL!
MO MAN:

Forget the Morningstar "Stars." They reflect past performance. Morningstar, admits they are useless for projecting future performance.
Should we buy funds based on these star ratings? To find the answer we turned to Mark Hulbert, author of The Hulbert Financial Digest, a well-respected tracker of actual mutual fund performance. He wrote in the February 2, 2000, issue of Forbes magazine: "Over the past decade five-star equity funds have earned an average 5.7 percent against a 10.3 percent for the Wilshire 5000 (Total Market Index)." -- Page 154 of The Bogleheads Guide to Investing.
Best wishes.
Taylor
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle

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Re: Morningstar "Stars"

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:09 am

Taylor Larimore wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 10:15 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:15 pm
I like the VTSAX over the VTSMX in the 3 fund portfolio. VBTLX looks ok as a 3 star bond fund, but the VGTSX looks to be some higher risk verses return I think is why it is a 3 star fund as well. I have been looking at 4 and 5 star funds, had not even given any 3 star funds a look. I must be missing something with the 3 star funds? Remember, I ain't know savoy investor boys! LOL!
MO MAN:

Forget the Morningstar "Stars." They reflect past performance. Morningstar, admits they are useless for projecting future performance.
Should we buy funds based on these star ratings? To find the answer we turned to Mark Hulbert, author of The Hulbert Financial Digest, a well-respected tracker of actual mutual fund performance. He wrote in the February 2, 2000, issue of Forbes magazine: "Over the past decade five-star equity funds have earned an average 5.7 percent against a 10.3 percent for the Wilshire 5000 (Total Market Index)." -- Page 154 of The Bogleheads Guide to Investing.
Best wishes.
Taylor
Of course not even Morning star can project the future, neither can the guy putting together the 3 fund portfolio. But its all you have to go by. In the life of those funds or past ten years only one of the 3 funds have kept up. the other 2 look like they have sucked on growth. Your posting from forbes in 2000 needs to be updated it looks like. I can't be looking at the wrong data can I? I still don't see what I am missing by buying good growth and some of the lowest expenses.

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by nisiprius » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:35 am

The next thing to do is take a deep breath and be sure you understand two things about yourself.

1) Am a "satisficer" who just wants to be sure that their plan is good enough, and doesn't contain some obvious, catastrophic, serious problem? Or am I an "optimizer" who cannot rest happy if I do not believe I have tweaked and fine-tuned and made every possible change that looks like it might be an improvement?

2) What is my personal risk tolerance? Very specifically, what percentage of stocks am I comfortable holding, steadily, staying the course, without making any mental reservations about "I'll sell if it looks like a bear market is coming?" For this exercise, assume that stocks are stocks, and that any reasonably diversified holding of stocks, in any form, is going to drop about the same amount in a stock market crash, and that a realistic planning number is to assume a possible crash of -50%, cuts the value of all stocks in half. By "about," I mean maybe 53%, maybe 46%, but "about half." There may be magic categories of stocks and witches-brew complicated concoctions of "uncorrelated" stocks that might or might not cut the number by a little bit, but if the stock market crashes, there are not going to be diversified stock-based investments that just sail straight through.
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:49 am

nisiprius wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:35 am
The next thing to do is take a deep breath and be sure you understand two things about yourself.

1) Am a "satisficer" who just wants to be sure that their plan is good enough, and doesn't contain some obvious, catastrophic, serious problem? Or am I an "optimizer" who cannot rest happy if I do not believe I have tweaked and fine-tuned and made every possible change that looks like it might be an improvement?

2) What is my personal risk tolerance? Very specifically, what percentage of stocks am I comfortable holding, steadily, staying the course, without making any mental reservations about "I'll sell if it looks like a bear market is coming?" For this exercise, assume that stocks are stocks, and that any reasonably diversified holding of stocks, in any form, is going to drop about the same amount in a stock market crash, and that a realistic planning number is to assume a possible crash of -50%, cuts the value of all stocks in half. By "about," I mean maybe 53%, maybe 46%, but "about half." There may be magic categories of stocks and witches-brew complicated concoctions of "uncorrelated" stocks that might or might not cut the number by a little bit, but if the stock market crashes, there are not going to be diversified stock-based investments that just sail straight through.
Pretty funny stuff! I think I am pretty sure I am happy with my first 3 fund picks, Bonds just don't trip my trigger yet, maybe never will, but you cant never say never. I may use some of the money in 10 years, but realistically, will probably never need the money we are investing so letting it ride as we have for the last 30 years will probably continue for the next 30 years. But now that I found Vanguard, I will save a lot more of my money the next 30! I have seen the dow go from 1,800 in 1980 to 25,000 in 2018, I will take the chance it keeps going I guess, even if I only keep the 3 funds I have now and just keep adding to them.

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Re: Morningstar "Stars"

Post by oldcomputerguy » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:09 am

MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:09 am
Of course not even Morning star can project the future, neither can the guy putting together the 3 fund portfolio. But its all you have to go by. In the life of those funds or past ten years only one of the 3 funds have kept up. the other 2 look like they have sucked on growth. Your posting from forbes in 2000 needs to be updated it looks like. I can't be looking at the wrong data can I? I still don't see what I am missing by buying good growth and some of the lowest expenses.
Here's what Morningstar themselves say about how to choose a fund.

http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/ ... ?id=831740
To summarize, what we found is that the star rating possesses moderate predictive power, which is what we'd expect of a starting point for research. It points investors toward cheaper funds that are easier to own and more likely to outperform in the future, qualities that correspond with investor success.
http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/ ... ?id=752485
If you've been following Morningstar's research for long, you know how important we think expense ratios are to the fund selection equation. The expense ratio is the most proven predictor of future fund returns. We find that it is a dependable predictor when we run the data. That's also what academics, fund companies, and, of course, Jack Bogle, find when they run the data.
http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/ ... 327&part=2
Investors should make expense ratios a primary test in fund selection. They are still the most dependable predictor of performance. Start by focusing on funds in the cheapest or two cheapest quintiles, and you'll be on the path to success.
(boldface is mine)

Even if one were to focus on funds with four and five stars (indicating good past performance), there's a better than even chance that the funds with five star ratings this year will be rated one or two stars next year. Googe for "Callan Periodic Chart" for a graphic representation of how various asset classes rise and fall from year to year.

As for your investment in VITAX, take it from a reformed sector fund investor; you'll end up losing your shirt. Buying a sector fund is betting that you know better than the Harvard MBA's and professional institutional investors who comprise the vast majority of stock traders just which sector will outperform. I lost that contest; I lost over $5,000 in one year betting on sector funds. Neither you nor anyone else can predict which sector in the economy will do well in any given year. That's why you should invest in funds that cover the entire market; that way, you'll for sure be invested at least partially in whichever sector of the economy is doing well.

Before you buy anything else, I strongly suggest that you step back, take a break from buying funds willy-nilly, and read the "Bogleheads Guide to Investing" and "The Little Book of Common Sense Investing" cover to cover. Self-education is your best friend.
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

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Re: Morningstar "Stars"

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:22 am

oldcomputerguy wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:09 am
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:09 am
Of course not even Morning star can project the future, neither can the guy putting together the 3 fund portfolio. But its all you have to go by. In the life of those funds or past ten years only one of the 3 funds have kept up. the other 2 look like they have sucked on growth. Your posting from forbes in 2000 needs to be updated it looks like. I can't be looking at the wrong data can I? I still don't see what I am missing by buying good growth and some of the lowest expenses.
Here's what Morningstar themselves say about how to choose a fund.

http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/ ... ?id=831740
To summarize, what we found is that the star rating possesses moderate predictive power, which is what we'd expect of a starting point for research. It points investors toward cheaper funds that are easier to own and more likely to outperform in the future, qualities that correspond with investor success.
http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/ ... ?id=752485
If you've been following Morningstar's research for long, you know how important we think expense ratios are to the fund selection equation. The expense ratio is the most proven predictor of future fund returns. We find that it is a dependable predictor when we run the data. That's also what academics, fund companies, and, of course, Jack Bogle, find when they run the data.
http://news.morningstar.com/articlenet/ ... 327&part=2
Investors should make expense ratios a primary test in fund selection. They are still the most dependable predictor of performance. Start by focusing on funds in the cheapest or two cheapest quintiles, and you'll be on the path to success.
(boldface is mine)

Even if one were to focus on funds with four and five stars (indicating good past performance), there's a better than even chance that the funds with five star ratings this year will be rated one or two stars next year. Googe for "Callan Periodic Chart" for a graphic representation of how various asset classes rise and fall from year to year.

As for your investment in VITAX, take it from a reformed sector fund investor; you'll end up losing your shirt. Buying a sector fund is betting that you know better than the Harvard MBA's and professional institutional investors who comprise the vast majority of stock traders just which sector will outperform. I lost that contest; I lost over $5,000 in one year betting on sector funds. Neither you nor anyone else can predict which sector in the economy will do well in any given year. That's why you should invest in funds that cover the entire market; that way, you'll for sure be invested at least partially in whichever sector of the economy is doing well.

Before you buy anything else, I strongly suggest that you step back, take a break from buying funds willy-nilly, and read the "Bogleheads Guide to Investing" and "The Little Book of Common Sense Investing" cover to cover. Self-education is your best friend.
I must have been pretty lucky the 30 years then, other than getting screwed by my advisors, the dividend paying Utility funds we were in did rather well I thought, but think they have run their course now for a while. [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek], I will take my chances with my gut feeling for now, if it doesn't work, it doesnt work. But I will take this line you posted and run with it for now. It points investors toward cheaper funds that are easier to own and more likely to outperform in the future

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Re: Morningstar "Stars"

Post by z3r0c00l » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:11 am

MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:22 am

I must have been pretty lucky the 30 years then, other than getting screwed by my advisors, the dividend paying Utility funds we were in did rather well I thought, but think they have run their course now for a while. [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek], I will take my chances with my gut feeling for now, if it doesn't work, it doesnt work. But I will take this line you posted and run with it for now. It points investors toward cheaper funds that are easier to own and more likely to outperform in the future
Speculation on the future, including on who will win the 2020 election, and gut feelings are not a safe way to build an investing career.

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Re: Morningstar "Stars"

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:15 am

z3r0c00l wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:11 am
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:22 am

I must have been pretty lucky the 30 years then, other than getting screwed by my advisors, the dividend paying Utility funds we were in did rather well I thought, but think they have run their course now for a while. [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek], I will take my chances with my gut feeling for now, if it doesn't work, it doesnt work. But I will take this line you posted and run with it for now. It points investors toward cheaper funds that are easier to own and more likely to outperform in the future
Speculation on the future, including on who will win the 2020 election, and gut feelings are not a safe way to build an investing career.

I speculated with buying 1,200 acres of farm land in MN in 1981, cost was less than $400 an acre. Speculation has been very very good to me.....

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Re: Morningstar "Stars"

Post by oldcomputerguy » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:40 am

MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:22 am
I will take my chances with my gut feeling for now, if it doesn't work, it doesnt work.
That's certainly up to you. However, from my own point of view, it's rather a cavalier way to plan one's retirement. I'll stick with the Boglehead way.

And without commenting on nor speculating on any political aspect of this discussion, I would point out that economic forces have historically rolled on, both up and down, regardless of which party held any particular branch of our government at the time.
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by David Jay » Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:51 am

MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 9:15 pm
I have been looking at 4 and 5 star funds, had not even given any 3 star funds a look. I must be missing something with the 3 star funds?
The Morningstar ratings are based on recent performance.

I had my "Ah-Ha" moment when I was looking at a widely suggested Total US Market stock fund and was surprised that it only had a 3-star M* rating. Then I thought about the implications. Yes, of course. The fund always, by definition, has average (i.e. "market") returns. It will likely never be a "superstar" over a 3 year or 5 year timeframe. It will never be a dog either.
Prediction is very difficult, especially about the future - Niels Bohr | To get the "risk premium", you really do have to take the risk - nisiprius

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Re: Morningstar "Stars"

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:08 am

oldcomputerguy wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:40 am
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:22 am
I will take my chances with my gut feeling for now, if it doesn't work, it doesnt work.
That's certainly up to you. However, from my own point of view, it's rather a cavalier way to plan one's retirement. I'll stick with the Boglehead way.

And without commenting on nor speculating on any political aspect of this discussion, I would point out that economic forces have historically rolled on, both up and down, regardless of which party held any particular branch of our government at the time.
Most of what I have is in farm land, this investment money is neither going to make me or break me in these 3 funds I have picked out and certainly is not all of my retirement. For all I know the wife and the pool boy may be spending it if I tip over anyways! LOL! Land is not a place to put this money right now in my area. Just thought a few specific funds averaged over the next 10-30 years could still do well. Even Warren the man is wrong once in a while! But he is right a lot of the time!

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by BL » Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:37 am

How about Life Strategy Aggressive (80/20) or Moderate (60/40)? It is nicely balanced and includes the funds Bogleheads like.

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by BogleMelon » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:01 am

MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:48 pm

VITAX is the Tech Index fund, no load and only .10 ER is why I liked it. and the low turnover.
Mo MAN,
Holding VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund) means you hold all the Tech companies, all the Health companies,...etc
It simply means you are holding every and each sector in US (could you be more diversified than that?!), without having to worry about the single sector risk (think of dot com bubble).
It (VTSAX) is also a no load fund with only 0.04 ER

Holding more of specific sector than the others, means you believe that this specific sector will outperform the rest. If you have a valid reason for believing so, then most of other professional investors can see this reason as well. That means the shares of this fund/sector would have a high demand, which leads to overpricing. So buying this (hot) fund now (after the information you and others know about this fund) means you are buying high! Successful investors do not buy high!

Speculation might work for you before in specific situation, but remember, stock market is so efficient. By the day you know an information about a company/sector, the whole world had already known this information (just right before it reaches you) and had already acted based on it, thus the information is already priced in the share price.

Also if I gambled with my house deed in Vegas, and I won, it doesn't necessary means I was right to gamble my house. I was only lucky to won, but the act of gambling with my house is still classified as a (reckless act)!
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by livesoft » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:04 am

3 more good funds:

VTIAX
VBTLX
VFSVX
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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by NotWhoYouThink » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:09 am

Speculation, on individual stocks or sectors, or on real estate, can work spectacularly well. People get rich that way faster than they get rich with passive index investing. Of course, they also get poor and bankrupt that way, because that's how risk works.

If you want to speculate with low cost sector funds, have at it. If you want to index, see livesoft's post above. If you want to do a little of both, enjoy and good luck.

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by rixer » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:41 am

I bought VDE.
Investing in energy companies is a no brainer, right? :oops:

I now stick to my Lifestrategy fund. I suck at picking winners.

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:35 pm

BL wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:37 am
How about Life Strategy Aggressive (80/20) or Moderate (60/40)? It is nicely balanced and includes the funds Bogleheads like.
Thanks, I did look at that, but don't know if I like the idea of funds inside a fund. I will look into its yield and risk as well as the ER and turnover.

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:37 pm

NotWhoYouThink wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:09 am
Speculation, on individual stocks or sectors, or on real estate, can work spectacularly well. People get rich that way faster than they get rich with passive index investing. Of course, they also get poor and bankrupt that way, because that's how risk works.

If you want to speculate with low cost sector funds, have at it. If you want to index, see livesoft's post above. If you want to do a little of both, enjoy and good luck.

Thanks, I will look at livesofts post.

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:43 pm

livesoft wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:04 am
3 more good funds:

VTIAX
VBTLX
VFSVX
Thanks man! I will look at those. These are what I have on my radar now.

VHDYX
VFINX

And these damn Utilities keep making me look at them. I just love those dividends! :moneybag
VUIAX

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Fri Mar 09, 2018 1:49 pm

Uh-oh. He said the “D”-word.
:o
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

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Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:02 pm

BogleMelon wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:01 am
MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:48 pm

VITAX is the Tech Index fund, no load and only .10 ER is why I liked it. and the low turnover.
Mo MAN,
Holding VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund) means you hold all the Tech companies, all the Health companies,...etc
It simply means you are holding every and each sector in US (could you be more diversified than that?!), without having to worry about the single sector risk (think of dot com bubble).
It (VTSAX) is also a no load fund with only 0.04 ER

Holding more of specific sector than the others, means you believe that this specific sector will outperform the rest. If you have a valid reason for believing so, then most of other professional investors can see this reason as well. That means the shares of this fund/sector would have a high demand, which leads to overpricing. So buying this (hot) fund now (after the information you and others know about this fund) means you are buying high! Successful investors do not buy high!

Speculation might work for you before in specific situation, but remember, stock market is so efficient. By the day you know an information about a company/sector, the whole world had already known this information (just right before it reaches you) and had already acted based on it, thus the information is already priced in the share price.

Also if I gambled with my house deed in Vegas, and I won, it doesn't necessary means I was right to gamble my house. I was only lucky to won, but the act of gambling with my house is still classified as a (reckless act)!
The stock market is nothing more than a gamble. At least in Vegas I know my outcome within 30 seconds. The stock market can be slow at stealing your money! LOL!

I have gambled my whole life in business as well, no risk no reward. An old banker told me back in 1981 that when everyone is running, its time to be walking and when everyone is walking, its time to be running. He loaned me half the money for that land I bought because everyone was scared to buy land like the black plaque. Smart man he was! Made me a lot of money since 81!

BogleMelon
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:49 am

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by BogleMelon » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:48 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:02 pm
BogleMelon wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:01 am
MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:48 pm

VITAX is the Tech Index fund, no load and only .10 ER is why I liked it. and the low turnover.
Mo MAN,
Holding VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund) means you hold all the Tech companies, all the Health companies,...etc
It simply means you are holding every and each sector in US (could you be more diversified than that?!), without having to worry about the single sector risk (think of dot com bubble).
It (VTSAX) is also a no load fund with only 0.04 ER

Holding more of specific sector than the others, means you believe that this specific sector will outperform the rest. If you have a valid reason for believing so, then most of other professional investors can see this reason as well. That means the shares of this fund/sector would have a high demand, which leads to overpricing. So buying this (hot) fund now (after the information you and others know about this fund) means you are buying high! Successful investors do not buy high!

Speculation might work for you before in specific situation, but remember, stock market is so efficient. By the day you know an information about a company/sector, the whole world had already known this information (just right before it reaches you) and had already acted based on it, thus the information is already priced in the share price.

Also if I gambled with my house deed in Vegas, and I won, it doesn't necessary means I was right to gamble my house. I was only lucky to won, but the act of gambling with my house is still classified as a (reckless act)!
The stock market is nothing more than a gamble.
That is not true. There is risk in stock market, but gambling by definition is a zero sum game, while investing is not (unless you do day trading)
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

BogleMelon
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:49 am

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by BogleMelon » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:54 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:02 pm
BogleMelon wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:01 am
MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:48 pm

VITAX is the Tech Index fund, no load and only .10 ER is why I liked it. and the low turnover.
Mo MAN,
Holding VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund) means you hold all the Tech companies, all the Health companies,...etc
It simply means you are holding every and each sector in US (could you be more diversified than that?!), without having to worry about the single sector risk (think of dot com bubble).
It (VTSAX) is also a no load fund with only 0.04 ER

Holding more of specific sector than the others, means you believe that this specific sector will outperform the rest. If you have a valid reason for believing so, then most of other professional investors can see this reason as well. That means the shares of this fund/sector would have a high demand, which leads to overpricing. So buying this (hot) fund now (after the information you and others know about this fund) means you are buying high! Successful investors do not buy high!

Speculation might work for you before in specific situation, but remember, stock market is so efficient. By the day you know an information about a company/sector, the whole world had already known this information (just right before it reaches you) and had already acted based on it, thus the information is already priced in the share price.

Also if I gambled with my house deed in Vegas, and I won, it doesn't necessary means I was right to gamble my house. I was only lucky to won, but the act of gambling with my house is still classified as a (reckless act)!

no risk no reward.
Who said you shouldn't take risks? There is just a difference between taking the market risk and taking a specific sector risk.
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:02 pm
when everyone is walking, its time to be running.
So I assume you are now buying GE, J. C. Penney and Sears shares? :wink:
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

MO MAN
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:58 pm

BogleMelon wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:48 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:02 pm
BogleMelon wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:01 am
MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:48 pm

VITAX is the Tech Index fund, no load and only .10 ER is why I liked it. and the low turnover.
Mo MAN,
Holding VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund) means you hold all the Tech companies, all the Health companies,...etc
It simply means you are holding every and each sector in US (could you be more diversified than that?!), without having to worry about the single sector risk (think of dot com bubble).
It (VTSAX) is also a no load fund with only 0.04 ER

Holding more of specific sector than the others, means you believe that this specific sector will outperform the rest. If you have a valid reason for believing so, then most of other professional investors can see this reason as well. That means the shares of this fund/sector would have a high demand, which leads to overpricing. So buying this (hot) fund now (after the information you and others know about this fund) means you are buying high! Successful investors do not buy high!

Speculation might work for you before in specific situation, but remember, stock market is so efficient. By the day you know an information about a company/sector, the whole world had already known this information (just right before it reaches you) and had already acted based on it, thus the information is already priced in the share price.

Also if I gambled with my house deed in Vegas, and I won, it doesn't necessary means I was right to gamble my house. I was only lucky to won, but the act of gambling with my house is still classified as a (reckless act)!
The stock market is nothing more than a gamble.
That is not true. There is risk in stock market, but gambling by definition is a zero sum game, while investing is not (unless you do day trading)
Its not gambling? If you buy a stock from the stock market someone is selling thinking its going down, and your buying thinking its going up. Someone is going to lose. Of course that is a little extreme, but very true!

UpperNwGuy
Posts: 1260
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:16 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:41 pm
Hi Guys, been following you guys for a while, and finally decided to join up, and get my investments in order. And it should have been done a long time ago, as I was paying hi front loads and high ER and at 58 years old, it has cost me a lot of money I see. Won't need any money for about ten years. This is what I have done so far. Opened a account with Vanguard, moved some money in, with more Roll overs to go. My wife and I have invested in these 3 funds, VTSAX, VHCIX, and VITAX. Looking for 3 more good funds with low ER. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
You say you "decided to join up," but opening a Vanguard account and buying some funds with low ERs isn't the same thing as adopting the boglehead investment philosophy. From your responses to the comments in this thread, it appears that your investment philosophy is quite different from that held by the founders of this forum.

livesoft
Posts: 63093
Joined: Thu Mar 01, 2007 8:00 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by livesoft » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:17 pm

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:16 pm
From your responses to the comments in this thread, it appears that your investment philosophy is quite different from that held by the founders of this forum.
Yes, it is always nice to have someone come in and stir up the pot. I like it.
Wiki This signature message sponsored by sscritic: Learn to fish.

MO MAN
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:43 pm

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:16 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:41 pm
Hi Guys, been following you guys for a while, and finally decided to join up, and get my investments in order. And it should have been done a long time ago, as I was paying hi front loads and high ER and at 58 years old, it has cost me a lot of money I see. Won't need any money for about ten years. This is what I have done so far. Opened a account with Vanguard, moved some money in, with more Roll overs to go. My wife and I have invested in these 3 funds, VTSAX, VHCIX, and VITAX. Looking for 3 more good funds with low ER. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
You say you "decided to join up," but opening a Vanguard account and buying some funds with low ERs isn't the same thing as adopting the boglehead investment philosophy. From your responses to the comments in this thread, it appears that your investment philosophy is quite different from that held by the founders of this forum.
I did not know I had to follow a philosophy on here, really! LOL!

I was just looking for a few more funds possibly. Thought you guys would know. Not trying to stir any pot, just telling things how I see them.

BogleMelon
Posts: 1533
Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2016 11:49 am

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by BogleMelon » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:33 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:58 pm
BogleMelon wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:48 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:02 pm
BogleMelon wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:01 am
MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 8:48 pm

VITAX is the Tech Index fund, no load and only .10 ER is why I liked it. and the low turnover.
Mo MAN,
Holding VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund) means you hold all the Tech companies, all the Health companies,...etc
It simply means you are holding every and each sector in US (could you be more diversified than that?!), without having to worry about the single sector risk (think of dot com bubble).
It (VTSAX) is also a no load fund with only 0.04 ER

Holding more of specific sector than the others, means you believe that this specific sector will outperform the rest. If you have a valid reason for believing so, then most of other professional investors can see this reason as well. That means the shares of this fund/sector would have a high demand, which leads to overpricing. So buying this (hot) fund now (after the information you and others know about this fund) means you are buying high! Successful investors do not buy high!

Speculation might work for you before in specific situation, but remember, stock market is so efficient. By the day you know an information about a company/sector, the whole world had already known this information (just right before it reaches you) and had already acted based on it, thus the information is already priced in the share price.

Also if I gambled with my house deed in Vegas, and I won, it doesn't necessary means I was right to gamble my house. I was only lucky to won, but the act of gambling with my house is still classified as a (reckless act)!
The stock market is nothing more than a gamble.
That is not true. There is risk in stock market, but gambling by definition is a zero sum game, while investing is not (unless you do day trading)
Its not gambling? If you buy a stock from the stock market someone is selling thinking its going down, and your buying thinking its going up. Someone is going to lose. Of course that is a little extreme, but very true!
I agree with that to the point that I use it already as a signature (see below my signature). However what you are telling is not investing, it is speculating which is (again I agree) is gambling.

Investing on the other hand doesn't have to be like that.. Just buy the whole market today, buy it again tomorrow when you have more money, don't sell unless you needed the money (supposedly in decades), and let the dividends reinvested so you enjoy the compounding factor! If it is still too much risk? add bonds to dilute the risk and smooth your portfolio roller coaster ride, so that you sleep well at night without bailing out during the next crash..
How can this be gambling?!!
"One of the funny things about stock market, every time one is buying another is selling, and both think they are astute" - William Feather

MO MAN
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:44 pm

BogleMelon wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 4:33 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:58 pm
BogleMelon wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:48 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 2:02 pm
BogleMelon wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:01 am

Mo MAN,
Holding VTSAX (Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund) means you hold all the Tech companies, all the Health companies,...etc
It simply means you are holding every and each sector in US (could you be more diversified than that?!), without having to worry about the single sector risk (think of dot com bubble).
It (VTSAX) is also a no load fund with only 0.04 ER

Holding more of specific sector than the others, means you believe that this specific sector will outperform the rest. If you have a valid reason for believing so, then most of other professional investors can see this reason as well. That means the shares of this fund/sector would have a high demand, which leads to overpricing. So buying this (hot) fund now (after the information you and others know about this fund) means you are buying high! Successful investors do not buy high!

Speculation might work for you before in specific situation, but remember, stock market is so efficient. By the day you know an information about a company/sector, the whole world had already known this information (just right before it reaches you) and had already acted based on it, thus the information is already priced in the share price.

Also if I gambled with my house deed in Vegas, and I won, it doesn't necessary means I was right to gamble my house. I was only lucky to won, but the act of gambling with my house is still classified as a (reckless act)!
The stock market is nothing more than a gamble.
That is not true. There is risk in stock market, but gambling by definition is a zero sum game, while investing is not (unless you do day trading)
Its not gambling? If you buy a stock from the stock market someone is selling thinking its going down, and your buying thinking its going up. Someone is going to lose. Of course that is a little extreme, but very true!
I agree with that to the point that I use it already as a signature (see below my signature). However what you are telling is not investing, it is speculating which is (again I agree) is gambling.

Investing on the other hand doesn't have to be like that.. Just buy the whole market today, buy it again tomorrow when you have more money, don't sell unless you needed the money (supposedly in decades), and let the dividends reinvested so you enjoy the compounding factor! If it is still too much risk? add bonds to dilute the risk and smooth your portfolio roller coaster ride, so that you sleep well at night without bailing out during the next crash..
How can this be gambling?!!
I agree, I never sell, so I have never lost money in the stock market either, other than the scum bag Advisors taking my money that is! LOL!

z3r0c00l
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:43 am
Location: NYC
Contact:

Re: Morningstar "Stars"

Post by z3r0c00l » Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:32 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:15 am
z3r0c00l wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:11 am
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:22 am

I must have been pretty lucky the 30 years then, other than getting screwed by my advisors, the dividend paying Utility funds we were in did rather well I thought, but think they have run their course now for a while. [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek], I will take my chances with my gut feeling for now, if it doesn't work, it doesnt work. But I will take this line you posted and run with it for now. It points investors toward cheaper funds that are easier to own and more likely to outperform in the future
Speculation on the future, including on who will win the 2020 election, and gut feelings are not a safe way to build an investing career.

I speculated with buying 1,200 acres of farm land in MN in 1981, cost was less than $400 an acre. Speculation has been very very good to me.....
Speculation worked well once, past tense. People win the lotto too. That is not an endorsement for the technique used. And lots of farms have gone belly-up since 1981.

MO MAN
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: Morningstar "Stars"

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:03 pm

z3r0c00l wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:32 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:15 am
z3r0c00l wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:11 am
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:22 am

I must have been pretty lucky the 30 years then, other than getting screwed by my advisors, the dividend paying Utility funds we were in did rather well I thought, but think they have run their course now for a while. [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek], I will take my chances with my gut feeling for now, if it doesn't work, it doesnt work. But I will take this line you posted and run with it for now. It points investors toward cheaper funds that are easier to own and more likely to outperform in the future
Speculation on the future, including on who will win the 2020 election, and gut feelings are not a safe way to build an investing career.

I speculated with buying 1,200 acres of farm land in MN in 1981, cost was less than $400 an acre. Speculation has been very very good to me.....
Speculation worked well once, past tense. People win the lotto too. That is not an endorsement for the technique used. And lots of farms have gone belly-up since 1981.
I don't farm, so I won't go broke, I just rent the tillable to guys that may go broke....

MO MAN
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:21 pm

Wow, those 3 funds I got did great today, wish I would have had the next 3 ready! :?

UpperNwGuy
Posts: 1260
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:03 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:43 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:16 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:41 pm
Hi Guys, been following you guys for a while, and finally decided to join up, and get my investments in order. And it should have been done a long time ago, as I was paying hi front loads and high ER and at 58 years old, it has cost me a lot of money I see. Won't need any money for about ten years. This is what I have done so far. Opened a account with Vanguard, moved some money in, with more Roll overs to go. My wife and I have invested in these 3 funds, VTSAX, VHCIX, and VITAX. Looking for 3 more good funds with low ER. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
You say you "decided to join up," but opening a Vanguard account and buying some funds with low ERs isn't the same thing as adopting the boglehead investment philosophy. From your responses to the comments in this thread, it appears that your investment philosophy is quite different from that held by the founders of this forum.
I did not know I had to follow a philosophy on here, really! LOL!

I was just looking for a few more funds possibly. Thought you guys would know. Not trying to stir any pot, just telling things how I see them.
Nobody has to follow a philosophy here, but you implied that you had bought into the boglehead philosophy when you said you had "joined up." Just wanted to make sure you realized that you had traded one non-boglehead philosophy for another non-boglehead philosophy... and that was why you were getting so much push-back in the comments on your post.

z3r0c00l
Posts: 1245
Joined: Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:43 am
Location: NYC
Contact:

Re: Morningstar "Stars"

Post by z3r0c00l » Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:16 pm

MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 6:03 pm
z3r0c00l wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 5:32 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:15 am
z3r0c00l wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 8:11 am
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:22 am

I must have been pretty lucky the 30 years then, other than getting screwed by my advisors, the dividend paying Utility funds we were in did rather well I thought, but think they have run their course now for a while. [OT comment removed by admin LadyGeek], I will take my chances with my gut feeling for now, if it doesn't work, it doesnt work. But I will take this line you posted and run with it for now. It points investors toward cheaper funds that are easier to own and more likely to outperform in the future
Speculation on the future, including on who will win the 2020 election, and gut feelings are not a safe way to build an investing career.

I speculated with buying 1,200 acres of farm land in MN in 1981, cost was less than $400 an acre. Speculation has been very very good to me.....
Speculation worked well once, past tense. People win the lotto too. That is not an endorsement for the technique used. And lots of farms have gone belly-up since 1981.
I don't farm, so I won't go broke, I just rent the tillable to guys that may go broke....
Landed gentry, can't argue with that! : )

MO MAN
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:19 pm

UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 7:03 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:43 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 3:16 pm
MO MAN wrote:
Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:41 pm
Hi Guys, been following you guys for a while, and finally decided to join up, and get my investments in order. And it should have been done a long time ago, as I was paying hi front loads and high ER and at 58 years old, it has cost me a lot of money I see. Won't need any money for about ten years. This is what I have done so far. Opened a account with Vanguard, moved some money in, with more Roll overs to go. My wife and I have invested in these 3 funds, VTSAX, VHCIX, and VITAX. Looking for 3 more good funds with low ER. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance.
You say you "decided to join up," but opening a Vanguard account and buying some funds with low ERs isn't the same thing as adopting the boglehead investment philosophy. From your responses to the comments in this thread, it appears that your investment philosophy is quite different from that held by the founders of this forum.
I did not know I had to follow a philosophy on here, really! LOL!

I was just looking for a few more funds possibly. Thought you guys would know. Not trying to stir any pot, just telling things how I see them.
Nobody has to follow a philosophy here, but you implied that you had bought into the boglehead philosophy when you said you had "joined up." Just wanted to make sure you realized that you had traded one non-boglehead philosophy for another non-boglehead philosophy... and that was why you were getting so much push-back in the comments on your post.
Sorry, I just joined up,as in the forum, didn't know anything about a philosophy. And I didn't realize anyone was pushing back. Just thought everyone was making some good comments. That is why I was wondering if I was missing something. I think I get where some of you guys are going will the 3 fund approach, its just not for me at this age yet. I will take some added risk as I won't need to live off this money, but may use some of it in 10 years maybe, but maybe not.

TwstdSista
Posts: 987
Joined: Thu Nov 16, 2017 4:03 am

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by TwstdSista » Sat Mar 10, 2018 5:17 am

Ha ha ha! It's not any three funds -- it's a specific three funds. If you like your sectors, then tilt. I'd suggest adding a total international fund and a total bond fund.

Keepin' it simple works for me.

User avatar
oldcomputerguy
Posts: 3565
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 6:50 am
Location: In the middle of five acres of woods

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by oldcomputerguy » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:26 am

MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:19 pm
Sorry, I just joined up,as in the forum, didn't know anything about a philosophy.
Take a few minutes and read through this, it may help you understand where some of the comments to your posts are coming from.
It’s taken me a lot of years, but I’ve come around to this: If you’re dumb, surround yourself with smart people. And if you’re smart, surround yourself with smart people who disagree with you.

Zero Alpha
Posts: 13
Joined: Fri Feb 23, 2018 1:45 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by Zero Alpha » Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:47 am

VTSAX is the total US market. I believe VHCIX(healthcare), VITAX(technology), VHDYX(dividend), VFINX(sp500), and VUIAX(utilities) are all made up of companies already contained in VTSAX. Betting on many sectors adds complexity and risk but little if any benefit. VFINX is nearly the same as VTSAX and there is no need to invest in both. Adding funds not part of the Total US Stock market, as others have suggested, will have diversification benefits.

MO MAN
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:00 am

oldcomputerguy wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:26 am
MO MAN wrote:
Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:19 pm
Sorry, I just joined up,as in the forum, didn't know anything about a philosophy.
Take a few minutes and read through this, it may help you understand where some of the comments to your posts are coming from.
I did read the article you sent, thank you for that. One line in particular sticks out about bonds. You invest in bonds in relationship to how much risk you can take. I feel right now, I can take all the risk in the world with this being money we would not ever have to live on if it was all lost, so no bonds for me is the way I will go for now. Maybe in the future, but I shudder to think how much money I would have lost from 2008 to 2018 had I had my age percentage in bonds. But I have always taken calculated risks throughout my life, and will probably do the same until I am dead. I like my 3 low cost choices for Vanguard Mutual Funds of VTSAX .04%, VHCIX .10%, and VITAX .10% for now. I do like the Bogle 3 fund Concept for new people starting out, I think for most young investors it would be a great simple way to go. I like how they talk about investing monthly. My wife and I have done that for as far back as I can remember. So the article makes some very good suggestions.

MO MAN
Posts: 47
Joined: Thu Mar 08, 2018 3:32 pm

Re: Dumped My Advisor, Now What?

Post by MO MAN » Sat Mar 10, 2018 10:09 am

Zero Alpha wrote:
Sat Mar 10, 2018 9:47 am
VTSAX is the total US market. I believe VHCIX(healthcare), VITAX(technology), VHDYX(dividend), VFINX(sp500), and VUIAX(utilities) are all made up of companies already contained in VTSAX. Betting on many sectors adds complexity and risk but little if any benefit. VFINX is nearly the same as VTSAX and there is no need to invest in both. Adding funds not part of the Total US Stock market, as others have suggested, will have diversification benefits.
You are correct, that is what I have been researching and one of the reasons we are just at the 3 funds for now. I don't mind crossovers in funds, and with as many funds as there are out there, it can't be helped unless you want to do the Bogle 3 fund program. I like my Healthcare, total US Market and my Nasdaq Tech fund. That's my diversification and so far I am sticking with that in this economy. Lots of good blue chips out there yet, lots of new drugs coming on the seen and more new technology crap is in the future. [OT comments removed by admin LadyGeek]

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