Investment help for 47 year old MD

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DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:19 am

I am a 47-year-old family practice physician who left his federal gov job last year after 10 years of service. I started my own practice in January 2017, recently I decided to start investing outside of my thrift savings plan-401 k

I am debt-free.
I used to invest with Vanguard in 2003 before I joined the federal government.

I lost >100k in day trading , 180 K in another side gig last year , so now I just want to concentrate on index mutual funds.

I have started putting money in Vanguard total Stock index mutual fund(60%), total international Stock index mutual fund(20%), and total US bond index fund(20%). Planning for allocation of 60-20- 20.
In late 2011, I put all 401(k) in safe income funds in thrift savings plans. I was confident of a market crash in 2012, it did not happen and I have "missed out on most of the stock market gains since 2012 hoping to time the market" and praying for it to crash so that I can get back in equities"

I have about 100 K cash waiting to be invested right away-

the plan is to put in the Vanguard index mutual funds.

1. Please advice if Vanguard etf mutual funds are better than index funds
2. Should I invest in Reits
3. I want to invest in commercial real estate as well-but I'm not sure if I would like being a landlord.
I'm exploring crowdfunding/syndication deals for real estate.

Any advice is highly appreciated to help me make up some what for lost time.
Thank you.

please excuse my typos.

User avatar
badbreath
Posts: 890
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 7:50 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by badbreath » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:08 am

1. Please advice if Vanguard etf mutual funds are better than index funds Either one will work. I prefer mutual funds
2. Should I invest in Reits only up to 10% of your portfolio
3. I want to invest in commercial real estate as well-but I'm not sure if I would like being a landlord. Commercial is easier to run the single family
I'm exploring crowdfunding/syndication deals for real estate.
I also would go to the white coat investor forum and ask the same question.
“While money can’t buy happiness, it certainly lets you choose your own form of misery.” Groucho Marx

User avatar
BL
Posts: 8176
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:28 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by BL » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:14 am

1-no
2.no
3-no

White coat investor website and book is good idea.
He might keep you from buying from insurance or investment "advisors".

You are still looking to "hit it big". Only 20% bonds at your age is very aggressive.

Consider Total stock and total international in taxable, keep bonds in TSP until filled, there is a great bond fund in TSP. Look at all investments as one.
Last edited by BL on Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:18 am, edited 2 times in total.

staythecourse
Posts: 5813
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by staythecourse » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:16 am

Welcome aboard and fellow doc here.

Honestly, the answer here is the same as it for everyone... Don't do ANYTHING without getting a better grasp of the fundamentals of investing. Just like in medicine we don't just throw a first year surgical resident in the OR and ask them to do an appendectomy. The best thing is to improve your knowledge base when it comes to personal finance. Knowing WHY we do x or y is as important as doing x or y.

Here are my list of books:

Simple: Mr. Bogle's edition to the "Little book series" and Mr. Roth's "How a second grader beat wall street".
Intermediate: Mr. Ferri's "All about asset allocation" and Dr. Bernstein "Intelligent asset allocator"
Advanced: Mr. Gibson "Asset allocation" and Mr. Lussier's book (forgot the name).

As you read those books come on here and ask questions (there will be a ton). The great thing about learning investing is once you learn it (like everything else in life) it is a piece of cake to continue and be successful at it.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

Lafder
Posts: 3749
Joined: Sat Aug 03, 2013 7:56 pm
Location: East of the Rio Grande

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by Lafder » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:10 am

Welcome here!

Do you have an emergency fund? How many months of expenses is it?

Are you maximizing your available retirement account space? What about back door Roth?

60/20/20 is a bit aggressive for your age. There is a rec of minimum bonds of age-20

You clearly need to slow down and think through your retirement/ investment choices given the day trading, market timing, $ side gig loss last year whatever that was. :)

A basic 3 fund portfolio is what I use myself. But I have more bonds in retirement accounts so that my taxable account is total stock market.

For more specific help, consider posting all of your holdings like this so we can take a look at being sure your current investments are working wisely for you. You might as well make the most of what you already have viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212

White coat investor is useful. But between there and this site, I find the advice here more useful for a fuller financial picture. You get the diversity of non doctors here, in addition to the many docs regularly on this site.

I hope your practice is going well and being your own boss is working out!

lafder

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Smorgasbord
Posts: 347
Joined: Fri Jun 10, 2016 8:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by Smorgasbord » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:17 am

DR AJ wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:19 am
1. Please advice if Vanguard etf mutual funds are better than index funds
Aren't many/most Vanguard ETFs index funds?

User avatar
BolderBoy
Posts: 3982
Joined: Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:16 pm
Location: Colorado

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by BolderBoy » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:22 am

DR AJ wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:19 am
I have started putting money in Vanguard total Stock index mutual fund(60%), total international Stock index mutual fund(20%), and total US bond index fund(20%). Planning for allocation of 60-20- 20.

... praying for ...
You need to be praying for the strength to stick with your quite excellent plan in the first paragraph and to stay away from the other ideas you have that will continue to lose you money in the long term.
"Never underestimate one's capacity to overestimate one's abilities" - The Dunning-Kruger Effect

Dottie57
Posts: 3938
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 5:43 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by Dottie57 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:30 am

BL wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:14 am
1-no
2.no
3-no

White coat investor website and book is good idea.
He might keep you from buying from insurance or investment "advisors".

You are still looking to "hit it big". Only 20% bonds at your age is very aggressive.

Consider Total stock and total international in taxable, keep bonds in TSP until filled, there is a great bond fund in TSP. Look at all investments as one.
+1

Agree - you are trying to hit it big. Slow and steady investing works very well. More bonds.

anil686
Posts: 748
Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 12:33 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by anil686 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:42 am

You have a solid plan - but to your questions
1) no
2) no
3) no

All IMO...

Resist the urge to get back to where you want to be all at once. It is like trying to find a 50 point shot or a 40 point Touchdown - they don’t exist. Control the things you can control:
1). Maximize your human capital (fellow physician) - increase the efficiency of your practice, generate more revenue, cut your expenses, practice high quality medicine to attract a loyal and large following
2). Cut investment costs - I.e. VG index funds (ETF or traditional index funds)
3). Cut out financial advisors - you seem to have a good plan
4). Build equity in your practice. You probably are familiar but your practice will have value. Build it up enough with patients that it becomes very valuable for purchase by either a health care system, hospital, national clinic or the like.
5). Would seriously read White Coat Investor’s book - it is really good and will reaffirm your decisions about investing in low cost index funds...

User avatar
Pajamas
Posts: 6015
Joined: Sun Jun 03, 2012 6:32 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by Pajamas » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:34 pm

DR AJ wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:19 am
I am a 47-year-old family practice physician who left his federal gov job last year after 10 years of service. I started my own practice in January 2017, recently I decided to start investing outside of my thrift savings plan-401 k

I am debt-free.
I used to invest with Vanguard in 2003 before I joined the federal government.

I lost >100k in day trading , 180 K in another side gig last year , so now I just want to concentrate on index mutual funds.

I have started putting money in Vanguard total Stock index mutual fund(60%), total international Stock index mutual fund(20%), and total US bond index fund(20%). Planning for allocation of 60-20- 20.
In late 2011, I put all 401(k) in safe income funds in thrift savings plans. I was confident of a market crash in 2012, it did not happen and I have "missed out on most of the stock market gains since 2012 hoping to time the market" and praying for it to crash so that I can get back in equities"

I have about 100 K cash waiting to be invested right away-

the plan is to put in the Vanguard index mutual funds.

1. Please advice if Vanguard etf mutual funds are better than index funds
2. Should I invest in Reits
3. I want to invest in commercial real estate as well-but I'm not sure if I would like being a landlord.
I'm exploring crowdfunding/syndication deals for real estate.

Any advice is highly appreciated to help me make up some what for lost time.
Thank you.

please excuse my typos.
You should take yourself and your own judgment out of the equation as much as possible when it comes to investing.

You haven't really learned your lesson from your complete failure at daytrading and side gigs and market timing and still want to get tricky with things like landlording and crowdfunding and syndication deals. The lesson is that you should not rely on your own financial judgment and prognostication skills, which have repeatedly been proven to be poor. You still want to keep gambling until you hit it big, but you are already in a deep hole with your bets and the house always wins if you play long enough. Playing a different game in the casino isn't the right answer for a gambling addict.

This might seem harsh and rude, but you have been overestimating your investing abilities and repeatedly failed because of it but haven't accepted reality and changed your behavior. You would be better off in the long run if you come to terms with this.

Again, you should take yourself and your own judgment out of the investing equation as much as possible going forward.

The best way to do that would be go with a target date retirement fund because you can't even trust yourself to stick to a predetermined allocation of two or three mutual funds and rebalance only once or twice a year; you would end up fiddling with it.

vijaym73
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2017 11:34 am

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by vijaym73 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:55 pm

I agree no to the first 2 questions.

However, i disagree with the last part. I think investing in real estate via syndication is a very good way to go. As a fellow MD, i have multiple buckets i utilize.

Taxable portfolio with just index funds---fidelity S+P fund, fidelity international fund

401K which has index funds and bond fund

whole life policy (YES...i know, not good but have had it for >10 years) and treat this as the "bond" part of my taxable fund.

BUT...i also do have rental properties in FL which cash flow nicely (property manager manages these as i am in SLC)

Lately, I have gotten into two real estate syndications and am receiving monthly checks from these with closing of these syndications anywhere between 3 - 4 years.

thanks

Vijay

investorpeter
Posts: 143
Joined: Sun Jul 31, 2016 5:46 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by investorpeter » Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:14 pm

DR AJ wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:19 am
I have started putting money in Vanguard total Stock index mutual fund(60%), total international Stock index mutual fund(20%), and total US bond index fund(20%). Planning for allocation of 60-20- 20.
Just do this. Forget the other ideas.

With all your free time not day trading and managing commercial real-estate, do something you really enjoy.

There is no significant difference between a vanguard index ETF and mutual fund. Either would be fine.

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:41 pm

badbreath wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:08 am
1. Please advice if Vanguard etf mutual funds are better than index funds Either one will work. I prefer mutual funds
2. Should I invest in Reits only up to 10% of your portfolio
3. I want to invest in commercial real estate as well-but I'm not sure if I would like being a landlord. Commercial is easier to run the single family
I'm exploring crowdfunding/syndication deals for real estate.
I also would go to the white coat investor forum and ask the same question.
Thank you so much.

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:43 pm

BL wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:14 am
1-no
2.no
3-no

White coat investor website and book is good idea.
He might keep you from buying from insurance or investment "advisors".

You are still looking to "hit it big". Only 20% bonds at your age is very aggressive.

Consider Total stock and total international in taxable, keep bonds in TSP until filled, there is a great bond fund in TSP. Look at all investments as one.
Thank you BL.
100 percent of my 401(k) at thrift savings plan (350 K )is in the bond fund I believe. L income funds are bond funds. So in that case I should be maximizing my total stock index and total international Stock Index. What do you say?

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:46 pm

staythecourse wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:16 am
Welcome aboard and fellow doc here.

Honestly, the answer here is the same as it for everyone... Don't do ANYTHING without getting a better grasp of the fundamentals of investing. Just like in medicine we don't just throw a first year surgical resident in the OR and ask them to do an appendectomy. The best thing is to improve your knowledge base when it comes to personal finance. Knowing WHY we do x or y is as important as doing x or y.

Here are my list of books:

Simple: Mr. Bogle's edition to the "Little book series" and Mr. Roth's "How a second grader beat wall street".
Intermediate: Mr. Ferri's "All about asset allocation" and Dr. Bernstein "Intelligent asset allocator"
Advanced: Mr. Gibson "Asset allocation" and Mr. Lussier's book (forgot the name).

As you read those books come on here and ask questions (there will be a ton). The great thing about learning investing is once you learn it (like everything else in life) it is a piece of cake to continue and be successful at it.

Good luck.
Thank you stay the course. Truly appreciate it. I believe big time in education. My problem in the past has been paralysis of analysis. I need to take action and that's what I need to do now and continue getting education.
Thanks

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:55 pm

Lafder wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:10 am
Welcome here!

Do you have an emergency fund? How many months of expenses is it?

Are you maximizing your available retirement account space? What about back door Roth?

60/20/20 is a bit aggressive for your age. There is a rec of minimum bonds of age-20

You clearly need to slow down and think through your retirement/ investment choices given the day trading, market timing, $ side gig loss last year whatever that was. :)

A basic 3 fund portfolio is what I use myself. But I have more bonds in retirement accounts so that my taxable account is total stock market.

For more specific help, consider posting all of your holdings like this so we can take a look at being sure your current investments are working wisely for you. You might as well make the most of what you already have viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212

White coat investor is useful. But between there and this site, I find the advice here more useful for a fuller financial picture. You get the diversity of non doctors here, in addition to the many docs regularly on this site.

I hope your practice is going well and being your own boss is working out!

lafder
Thank you lafder.
I have a 50 K emergency fund. We live modestly and we can survive on 60 K for the whole year.

I am going to ask this question on on a separate thread. I called Vanguard small business phone line regarding setting up a 401(k) or a sep ira for my practice and I'm kind of confused with his answers. So currently I don't have any tax-deferred account other than my TSP 401(k) which I believe I cannot contribute since I'm not a federal employee at this time.

I have 350 K 401(k) bond fund in TSP so I'm trying to maximize my total stock and total international Stock index fund.
Currently I have only 10K in total stock and 10K total intentional stock which I put last week. :D

I'm closing my brokerage account at TD Ameritrade and shifting the money to Vanguard since I do not need to be doing any more adventures with daytrading.

Yes I am trying to slow down and rethinking my investment strategy. I will keep it simple, not get distracted with this" wonderful investment opportunities for side gigs"

You're absolutely right. Bogleheads is a great forum. I also believe in physician on fire. Excellent blog.

Thank you for your encouragement.

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:59 pm

BolderBoy wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:22 am
DR AJ wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:19 am
I have started putting money in Vanguard total Stock index mutual fund(60%), total international Stock index mutual fund(20%), and total US bond index fund(20%). Planning for allocation of 60-20- 20.

... praying for ...
You need to be praying for the strength to stick with your quite excellent plan in the first paragraph and to stay away from the other ideas you have that will continue to lose you money in the long term.
Yes sir. That is absolutely correct. I'd need all the prayers to keep my mind straight and not get distracted. Untreated ADHD is a major problem for many physicians and high achievers. :happy

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:02 pm

anil686 wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:42 am
You have a solid plan - but to your questions
1) no
2) no
3) no

All IMO...

Resist the urge to get back to where you want to be all at once. It is like trying to find a 50 point shot or a 40 point Touchdown - they don’t exist. Control the things you can control:
1). Maximize your human capital (fellow physician) - increase the efficiency of your practice, generate more revenue, cut your expenses, practice high quality medicine to attract a loyal and large following
2). Cut investment costs - I.e. VG index funds (ETF or traditional index funds)
3). Cut out financial advisors - you seem to have a good plan
4). Build equity in your practice. You probably are familiar but your practice will have value. Build it up enough with patients that it becomes very valuable for purchase by either a health care system, hospital, national clinic or the like.
5). Would seriously read White Coat Investor’s book - it is really good and will reaffirm your decisions about investing in low cost index funds...
Thank you sir for your excellent advice. This is so true.
I really appreciate it.

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:04 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:30 am
BL wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:14 am
1-no
2.no
3-no

White coat investor website and book is good idea.
He might keep you from buying from insurance or investment "advisors".

You are still looking to "hit it big". Only 20% bonds at your age is very aggressive.

Consider Total stock and total international in taxable, keep bonds in TSP until filled, there is a great bond fund in TSP. Look at all investments as one.
+1

Agree - you are trying to hit it big. Slow and steady investing works very well. More bonds.
Thank you

Chris K Jones
Posts: 99
Joined: Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:54 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by Chris K Jones » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:05 pm

Welcome. A bit older doc here too. Your allocation of 60-20-20 looks quite reasonable to me. I personally prefer mutual funds over etfs, but it doesnt make a lot difference. Vanguard is the way to go. I studied REITs for a long time before I got in. I am not sure that I should be in REITs but I am. If you do opt for them, do them in a retirement account because there are a lot of distributions. If you can, structure your accounts so that Bonds go into retirement accounts and those accounts outside of retirement are in stocks mostly. I dont know anything about commercial real estate. Best of luck to you.

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:07 pm

Pajamas wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:34 pm
DR AJ wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:19 am
I am a 47-year-old family practice physician who left his federal gov job last year after 10 years of service. I started my own practice in January 2017, recently I decided to start investing outside of my thrift savings plan-401 k

I am debt-free.
I used to invest with Vanguard in 2003 before I joined the federal government.

I lost >100k in day trading , 180 K in another side gig last year , so now I just want to concentrate on index mutual funds.

I have started putting money in Vanguard total Stock index mutual fund(60%), total international Stock index mutual fund(20%), and total US bond index fund(20%). Planning for allocation of 60-20- 20.
In late 2011, I put all 401(k) in safe income funds in thrift savings plans. I was confident of a market crash in 2012, it did not happen and I have "missed out on most of the stock market gains since 2012 hoping to time the market" and praying for it to crash so that I can get back in equities"

I have about 100 K cash waiting to be invested right away-

the plan is to put in the Vanguard index mutual funds.

1. Please advice if Vanguard etf mutual funds are better than index funds
2. Should I invest in Reits
3. I want to invest in commercial real estate as well-but I'm not sure if I would like being a landlord.
I'm exploring crowdfunding/syndication deals for real estate.

Any advice is highly appreciated to help me make up some what for lost time.
Thank you.

please excuse my typos.
You should take yourself and your own judgment out of the equation as much as possible when it comes to investing.

You haven't really learned your lesson from your complete failure at daytrading and side gigs and market timing and still want to get tricky with things like landlording and crowdfunding and syndication deals. The lesson is that you should not rely on your own financial judgment and prognostication skills, which have repeatedly been proven to be poor. You still want to keep gambling until you hit it big, but you are already in a deep hole with your bets and the house always wins if you play long enough. Playing a different game in the casino isn't the right answer for a gambling addict.

This might seem harsh and rude, but you have been overestimating your investing abilities and repeatedly failed because of it but haven't accepted reality and changed your behavior. You would be better off in the long run if you come to terms with this.

Again, you should take yourself and your own judgment out of the investing equation as much as possible going forward.

The best way to do that would be go with a target date retirement fund because you can't even trust yourself to stick to a predetermined allocation of two or three mutual funds and rebalance only once or twice a year; you would end up fiddling with it.
Thank you so much. I appreciate people who speak the truth. I have been the problem and I'm blaming the man in the mirror. Going forward I need to stick to the three fund strategy. I definitely need to stop my urges for buying commercial real estate investments at the peak of this real estate bubble.

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:11 pm

vijaym73 wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:55 pm
I agree no to the first 2 questions.

However, i disagree with the last part. I think investing in real estate via syndication is a very good way to go. As a fellow MD, i have multiple buckets i utilize.

Taxable portfolio with just index funds---fidelity S+P fund, fidelity international fund

401K which has index funds and bond fund

whole life policy (YES...i know, not good but have had it for >10 years) and treat this as the "bond" part of my taxable fund.

BUT...i also do have rental properties in FL which cash flow nicely (property manager manages these as i am in SLC)

Lately, I have gotten into two real estate syndications and am receiving monthly checks from these with closing of these syndications anywhere between 3 - 4 years.

thanks

Vijay
Thank you so much Vijay.
Appreciate your input.

User avatar
BL
Posts: 8176
Joined: Sun Mar 01, 2009 2:28 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by BL » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:12 pm

DR AJ wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:43 pm
BL wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:14 am
1-no
2.no
3-no

White coat investor website and book is good idea.
He might keep you from buying from insurance or investment "advisors".

You are still looking to "hit it big". Only 20% bonds at your age is very aggressive.

Consider Total stock and total international in taxable, keep bonds in TSP until filled, there is a great bond fund in TSP. Look at all investments as one.
Thank you BL.
100 percent of my 401(k) at thrift savings plan (350 K )is in the bond fund I believe. L income funds are bond funds. So in that case I should be maximizing my total stock index and total international Stock Index. What do you say?
I believe you are misinformed about L funds. They are like Target date funds, not bonds, although they all will have some bonds in them. Here is the Wiki page on the basics of TSP:
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan
The G fund, with unique features, and F bond fund are the two single bond funds there.

If you edit your OP with all your funds and accounts, you might get better advice, as you need to consider the % bonds overall, and select the ideal place(s) for them among all your accounts.

I see you added some numbers as a start. Also physician on fire sounds good, and has also made posts here (you can search for his posts and emergdoc (whiteCoatInvestor)).
Some day you may want to get into real estate or REITs, but right now I suggest you concentrate on your own business and basic investing.

The key basics are included in this great little pdf you can download free:
https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:12 pm

investorpeter wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 1:14 pm
DR AJ wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 12:19 am
I have started putting money in Vanguard total Stock index mutual fund(60%), total international Stock index mutual fund(20%), and total US bond index fund(20%). Planning for allocation of 60-20- 20.
Just do this. Forget the other ideas.

With all your free time not day trading and managing commercial real-estate, do something you really enjoy.

There is no significant difference between a vanguard index ETF and mutual fund. Either would be fine.
Thanks investor Peter

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:14 pm

Chris K Jones wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:05 pm
Welcome. A bit older doc here too. Your allocation of 60-20-20 looks quite reasonable to me. I personally prefer mutual funds over etfs, but it doesnt make a lot difference. Vanguard is the way to go. I studied REITs for a long time before I got in. I am not sure that I should be in REITs but I am. If you do opt for them, do them in a retirement account because there are a lot of distributions. If you can, structure your accounts so that Bonds go into retirement accounts and those accounts outside of retirement are in stocks mostly. I dont know anything about commercial real estate. Best of luck to you.
Thank you Chris.
You're very kind.

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:24 pm

BL wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:12 pm
DR AJ wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:43 pm
BL wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:14 am
1-no
2.no
3-no

White coat investor website and book is good idea.
He might keep you from buying from insurance or investment "advisors".

You are still looking to "hit it big". Only 20% bonds at your age is very aggressive.

Consider Total stock and total international in taxable, keep bonds in TSP until filled, there is a great bond fund in TSP. Look at all investments as one.
Thank you BL.
100 percent of my 401(k) at thrift savings plan (350 K )is in the bond fund I believe. L income funds are bond funds. So in that case I should be maximizing my total stock index and total international Stock Index. What do you say?
I believe you are misinformed about L funds. They are like Target date funds, not bonds, although they all will have some bonds in them. Here is the Wiki page on the basics of TSP:
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Thrift_Savings_Plan
The G fund, with unique features, and F bond fund are the two single bond funds there.

If you edit your OP with all your funds and accounts, you might get better advice, as you need to consider the % bonds overall, and select the ideal place(s) for them among all your accounts.

I see you added some numbers as a start. Also physician on fire sounds good, and has also made posts here (you can search for his posts and emergdoc (whiteCoatInvestor)).
Some day you may want to get into real estate or REITs, but right now I suggest you concentrate on your own business and basic investing.

The key basics are included in this great little pdf you can download free:
https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
Thank you BL for correcting me.
I have a lot of learning to do.
I will call TSP tomorrow to find out
I believe I had put the all my 401(k) in L income fund which was supposed to mature in 2015, I have not change my allocation, so there may have put my money in L income 2020. Will find out tomorrow.

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:27 pm

One more question

I have 100k in my cash account
should I put the money in Vanguard index funds all at one time(theoretically give more time for compound interest to work :happy

0r

Should I put 50% of the funds now and then 10k a month over the next five months

or

Put 10k every month

Please advice.

Thank you for your help

staythecourse
Posts: 5813
Joined: Mon Jan 03, 2011 9:40 am

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by staythecourse » Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:03 pm

DR AJ wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:46 pm
staythecourse wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:16 am
Welcome aboard and fellow doc here.

Honestly, the answer here is the same as it for everyone... Don't do ANYTHING without getting a better grasp of the fundamentals of investing. Just like in medicine we don't just throw a first year surgical resident in the OR and ask them to do an appendectomy. The best thing is to improve your knowledge base when it comes to personal finance. Knowing WHY we do x or y is as important as doing x or y.

Here are my list of books:

Simple: Mr. Bogle's edition to the "Little book series" and Mr. Roth's "How a second grader beat wall street".
Intermediate: Mr. Ferri's "All about asset allocation" and Dr. Bernstein "Intelligent asset allocator"
Advanced: Mr. Gibson "Asset allocation" and Mr. Lussier's book (forgot the name).

As you read those books come on here and ask questions (there will be a ton). The great thing about learning investing is once you learn it (like everything else in life) it is a piece of cake to continue and be successful at it.

Good luck.
Thank you stay the course. Truly appreciate it. I believe big time in education. My problem in the past has been paralysis of analysis. I need to take action and that's what I need to do now and continue getting education.
Thanks
No problem. If you think about it there is NO REASON docs should not be great investors. They are intelligent, now how to analyze and critique studies, and have a fundamental background in the basics of statistics. The reason they are NOT successful as a whole though is because of arrogance in their own innate intelligence ("Oh I got x on my SATs and went to y for med school and got into z for residency so investing should be easy for me to figure it out on my own") and being a great target for the financial industry as an easy source of income for them.

It is NEVER to late to get our house in order. As I have mentioned on here in the past literally 80+% of what is important in investing I learned in my first 1 or 2 books (read on my spare time over a course of 3-4 months). The HOURS of time I have read other books and debate with others on this forum is for the fun of it and really has not helped me be any better investor then I am from when I finished those first couple of books.

It is so sad how easy it is to be a great investor as it doesn't take much time at all. Unbelievable how much less time it takes to be a great investor vs. learning how to ride a bike or learn to swim. It is a GREAT feeling knowing you have control of your financial future just like it s a great feeline knowing you know how to swim when you are on a boat at sea.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

darrvao777
Posts: 182
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2014 1:34 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by darrvao777 » Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:15 pm

How much of a physician’s portfolio should be real estate? Seems like most people here are advocating 0% aside from the REITs contained within TSM?

mhalley
Posts: 5931
Joined: Tue Nov 20, 2007 6:02 am

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by mhalley » Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:50 pm

Real estate is a job, and a lot of people don't have the time and energy for a second one. RE investing can be quite lucrative, but there is a lot more to it than buying a three fund portfolio. WCI has added passive income md to his empire, so you may want to read his site. It is not unreasonable for someone that has been out if the market to dca instead if lump sum to get back in. Last thing you need is to get spooked by a 40 percent portfolio drop.
https://passiveincomemd.com
Check out WCI for someone who has been out of the market.
https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/what- ... -out-2008/

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Sun Mar 04, 2018 11:20 pm

staythecourse wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 7:03 pm
DR AJ wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 3:46 pm
staythecourse wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:16 am
Welcome aboard and fellow doc here.

Honestly, the answer here is the same as it for everyone... Don't do ANYTHING without getting a better grasp of the fundamentals of investing. Just like in medicine we don't just throw a first year surgical resident in the OR and ask them to do an appendectomy. The best thing is to improve your knowledge base when it comes to personal finance. Knowing WHY we do x or y is as important as doing x or y.

Here are my list of books:

Simple: Mr. Bogle's edition to the "Little book series" and Mr. Roth's "How a second grader beat wall street".
Intermediate: Mr. Ferri's "All about asset allocation" and Dr. Bernstein "Intelligent asset allocator"
Advanced: Mr. Gibson "Asset allocation" and Mr. Lussier's book (forgot the name).

As you read those books come on here and ask questions (there will be a ton). The great thing about learning investing is once you learn it (like everything else in life) it is a piece of cake to continue and be successful at it.

Good luck.
Thank you stay the course. Truly appreciate it. I believe big time in education. My problem in the past has been paralysis of analysis. I need to take action and that's what I need to do now and continue getting education.
Thanks
No problem. If you think about it there is NO REASON docs should not be great investors. They are intelligent, now how to analyze and critique studies, and have a fundamental background in the basics of statistics. The reason they are NOT successful as a whole though is because of arrogance in their own innate intelligence ("Oh I got x on my SATs and went to y for med school and got into z for residency so investing should be easy for me to figure it out on my own") and being a great target for the financial industry as an easy source of income for them.

It is NEVER to late to get our house in order. As I have mentioned on here in the past literally 80+% of what is important in investing I learned in my first 1 or 2 books (read on my spare time over a course of 3-4 months). The HOURS of time I have read other books and debate with others on this forum is for the fun of it and really has not helped me be any better investor then I am from when I finished those first couple of books.

It is so sad how easy it is to be a great investor as it doesn't take much time at all. Unbelievable how much less time it takes to be a great investor vs. learning how to ride a bike or learn to swim. It is a GREAT feeling knowing you have control of your financial future just like it s a great feeline knowing you know how to swim when you are on a boat at sea.

Good luck.
Thanks

Trebor
Posts: 293
Joined: Wed Feb 21, 2007 1:36 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by Trebor » Mon Mar 05, 2018 11:07 am

In my opinion, the three things required most to be an investor (not speculator) are humility, wisdom through knowledge, and patience.

Medical doctors are generally very intelligent people. While they may be quite smart, they need a certain humility to recognize that there are lots of other extremely smart people out there. They are simply not going to “beat” other professional investors who make it a full-time job. In fact, there is no tangible evidence that even the professionals can even consistently beat the market. Just because you are smart, does not mean you are going to be the next Warren Buffet, not even close. Speculation is a short term zero sum game of hubris. Investing is long term “win-win game” of humility.

Humility is not enough. Fundamental knowledge is required. One needs to find their own path to understating the fundamental truths of investing (not speculating). You must reach your own epiphany, maybe by reading books, reading old threads, or reading online articles (like investing in total markets by John Norstad) etc. There isn’t really a lot to learn, but you must learn why low cost passive index total market investing works. You must reach your own aha moment. Without working through it and understanding the plan you have chosen is truly sound and wise, you simply won’t have the ability to stay the course as the market winds change.

Finally, patience is required. Whether you are 47, 27 or 67 years old, the process of investing is the same. There is no fast forward or short cut. Investing is a commitment of time and patience. When done right it is very boring in the moment. You learn to put your present energy into the things you can control (being tax efficient, controlling costs, systematically investing, being aware of changing life circumstances etc). You let time in the markets do their own thing.

Humility is required to accept that you can’t completely control the outcome. Knowledge is required to know that “invest” you must. Patience is required to stay the course and enjoy what benefits the markets give. Best wishes.
TINSTAAFL

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:19 pm

THANKS TREBOR

aredhel
Posts: 23
Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:20 am

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by aredhel » Mon Mar 05, 2018 3:35 pm

DR AJ wrote:
Sun Mar 04, 2018 4:27 pm
One more question

I have 100k in my cash account
should I put the money in Vanguard index funds all at one time(theoretically give more time for compound interest to work :happy

0r

Should I put 50% of the funds now and then 10k a month over the next five months

or

Put 10k every month

How will you react if the market plunges? Be honest! If you can stomach a sharp drop, then you might as well toss it all in at once. But if you'e not sure, then better to play it safe and dollar-cost average your way in.

DR AJ
Posts: 25
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:12 pm

Re: Investment help for 47 year old MD

Post by DR AJ » Mon Mar 05, 2018 4:22 pm

Thanks Aredhel

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