Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

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Sockpuppet
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Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Sockpuppet » Fri Feb 23, 2018 5:58 pm

Hello,

As I've noted in previous posts, I'm recently married and have a wife who sees the whole boglehead approach as something akin to the Wolf of Wall Street and really wants us to focus building up our savings account (Currently at 40K or about 6 months of expenses).

When we married I discovered even though her employer offered an unlimited 50% match (to max she can contribute pre-tax) she was only contributing 3% of her salary. I've since gotten her to up it to 12%, but she's still reluctant to take the full match. (We had a combined income of $175K last year. have limited liabilities, can afford to contribute more, and will likely see a combined income of 200K this year).

Also, she thinks opening up a ROTH IRA for herself is like buying bitcoin madness.

So anyway...made some progress, but I know we can do better.

Recently, I came across Learnvest which is a bit like Mint in that it aggregates your accounts and they also offer financial planning for a one-time $200 fee (after discount) and then $19.99 a month.

I know Bogleheads are usually loath for paying for financial advice, but I wonder if in this case it might be worth it. I've tried telling her that this online forum, but she doesn't trust a random website. But I think if a CFP was telling her she would be more likely to listen.

Learnvest was founded by a woman and so I think my wife will like the girl power angle. Also, everything I've read about them indicates they offer basically the same advice here.

So would I be crazy for suggesting we use Learnvest for maybe a year, just to get her to move away from the idea that we need all our savings to be liquid in a saving account?

Thoughts?

mhalley
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by mhalley » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:32 pm

Sometimes it takes an impartial third party to convince people that know you well that you actually know what you are talking about. I don’t know anything about learnvest, but even if you had to pay a couple thousand to somebody like garretplanning network would be well worth it.
But if you can’t convince someone to even take a match, they have some major misconceptions that need to be overcome. :oops:

livesoft
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by livesoft » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:33 pm

One thing I've learned here on the forum is that every time someone uses a Financial Advisor or Robo Advisor or Something Like Learnvest, they should plan on how they will extract themselves from the relationship without tax costs and without fees and without hassles. They should have the plan in place before initiating the relationship.

So if you have the extraction plan already in place, then I see no problem with trying them out.
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Sockpuppet
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Sockpuppet » Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:54 pm

livesoft wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:33 pm
One thing I've learned here on the forum is that every time someone uses a Financial Advisor or Robo Advisor or Something Like Learnvest, they should plan on how they will extract themselves from the relationship without tax costs and without fees and without hassles. They should have the plan in place before initiating the relationship.

So if you have the extraction plan already in place, then I see no problem with trying them out.
They say its "free to cancel at anytime" and I don't see any fees mentioned elsewhere online.

As they only offer advice and don't manage accounts, there should be no tax implications, right?

I think 1 year should do the trick.

As for the wife, she would need to contribute $18,500 to get the full match and losing that post-tax cash flow is shocking to her. I did get her to up it to $12,000 which probably puts her on the high end of the bell curve.

She's just hyper conservative with money (she must have lost it all in the Great Depression in a previous lifetime).

livesoft
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by livesoft » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:11 pm

Free to cancel is good, but what if the advice has you buying things that you will want to sell later at a tax cost? You should have a plan for that scenario or maybe never enter that scenario.

Perhaps another way is to create your own investing plan of what you would do without Learnvest, then have it blessed by Learnvest.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Doom&Gloom » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:22 pm

The problem I foresee is that if you have been unable to get your wife "to see the light," she will view anybody that you recommend to be a "proxy" for you.

Good luck.

dbr
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by dbr » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:25 pm

And if she becomes convinced Learnvest is the way to go and you want to bail you will have jumped from the frying pan into the fire. A brief perusal of their web page did not suggest any good reason to get involved with them and you could get entangled in things difficult to change later.

I have no suggestion for how to manage a relationship with someone who wants to share control with you while insisting on being willfully ignorant.

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Sockpuppet
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Sockpuppet » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:33 pm

dbr wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:25 pm
And if she becomes convinced Learnvest is the way to go and you want to bail you will have jumped from the frying pan into the fire. A brief perusal of their web page did not suggest any good reason to get involved with them and you could get entangled in things difficult to change later.

I have no suggestion for how to manage a relationship with someone who wants to share control with you while insisting on being willfully ignorant.
If you click on their sample plan on their homepage it all looked pretty sensible: take the match, have a roth IRA, have an emergency fund, get term life.

Other than their subscription they don't sell any products and they don't get a commission for recommending outside products. Find that very appealing.

Also, looking at the LinkedIn of their financial planners, I see a number were formerly flagship advisors at Vanguard.

If you guys don't think this is the way to go, would you suggest an alternative. I do think if my wife was advised by a financial professional that she saw as qualified she would follow their advice.

Elbowman
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Elbowman » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:40 pm

Sockpuppet wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:33 pm
If you guys don't think this is the way to go, would you suggest an alternative. I do think if my wife was advised by a financial professional that she saw as qualified she would follow their advice.
How about booking one session with a fee only advisor whose advice you agree with?

Also, building up the savings account to at least 12 months isn't the worst thing in the world...

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Toons
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Toons » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:44 pm

Save Your Money,
Read This
It Is Free.
Apply the principles to investing in Equity Index Funds.
"Why Should I Invest" :happy
https://www.fool.com/how-to-invest/why- ... nvest.aspx

From Vanguard. :D
https://www.vanguard.com/pdf/s700.pdf
Last edited by Toons on Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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2comma
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by 2comma » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:45 pm

Hopefully getting some "expert" (whatever that is in her eyes) will help. Unfortunately her bad logic is going to change your future so I'd fight back hard with good logic. There is a lot of information available to refute what she thinks or probably fears. I'd read up on why investing has historically been the correct thing to do then I'd start many little fact based discussions on why you are right on this one. Kind of like a Chinese water torture lite where she's heard all of the arguments over and over and eventually agrees. Good luck!
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:49 pm

Sockpuppet wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 6:54 pm
As for the wife, she would need to contribute $18,500 to get the full match and losing that post-tax cash flow is shocking to her. I did get her to up it to $12,000 which probably puts her on the high end of the bell curve.

She's just hyper conservative with money (she must have lost it all in the Great Depression in a previous lifetime).
couple thoughts:

1. I try to figure how to get a win/win when possible. Looking at it that way avoids looking at life as a series of either/or choices. Here's an example:
You want her to get the full match. She is leery of investing (afraid of losses). How to achieve a win-win? Does she have a money market or stable value option in her 401k? If so, she could feel good about her choice of contributing to that since she's not taking risk (except inflation in the case of money market) and get the match at the same time! See how you both get what you want there?

2. Here's another win-win scenario with reference to using learnvest. You're concerned about ongoing fees which reduce returns. She might gain confidence with help from a financial advisor. The fact that it's female founded/led may be a bonus, that's true. But are they the only option for financial advisor? No. You could consider going to a fee-only financial planner (fiduciary, and pay by the hour only). No ongoing fees. She get's a professional review/plan that the two of you implement. Best of all...use www.garrettplanningnetwork.com to find a fee-only financial advisor (fiduciary). Yep, you guessed it, the Garrett Planning Network was founded/run by a woman, Sherryl Garrett.

Sherryl was interviewed on Michael Kitces podcast:
https://www.kitces.com/blog/sheryl-garr ... le-market/
"May you live as long as you want and never want as long as you live" -- Irish Blessing | "Invest we must" -- Jack Bogle

MrPotatoHead
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by MrPotatoHead » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:51 pm

There is nothing wrong with paying for advice or professional assistance. People hire doctors, auto mechanics, plumbers without batting an eye. In your case you do nor need a financial plan so much as you need a professional in the form of financial planner to do a pitch. There are many firms that have efree 2-3 hour seminars where they hope to drum up business. I just got a solicitation from Thrivent for one. It promises no sales just information. My point is there are many ways to assist your wife. i tend the easiest is simply to talk to a financial planner ahead of time,tell them whet you want and then pay them a consultation fee, since they will not be doing more than talking in generics I bet you can land one in the $50-125 range and they would probably enjoy doing it.

Heck just today Ayco contacted me yet again offering a free financial plan.

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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by momvesting » Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:57 pm

I would move slowly, baby steps. First, get her to take all of that match! Convince her that she is throwing away free money. She may be able to put that increased amount in some FDIC insured money markets or something. I know it isn't your choice, but a 50% match, even on something earning under 2%, is better than what she is doing now.

Then convince her that a Roth is simply a way to avoid taxes in the future. Explain how you can even use it now, which makes it a good addition to your standard e-fund, and it can be usually withdrawn in the case of an emergency with less penalties (and many types withdrawls for emergencies are allowed). Get her to think of it not as retirement money but just another emergency savings vehicle that may be used for retirement if no emergencies arise. You could even start out with a Roth IRA CD or similar low-risk form of a Roth.

Lastly, understand that she is never going to embrace the BH standards as far as risk is concerned. Let her choose something like CDs, bonds, etc. and don't push too hard. Then consider your investments together (as in yours and hers) as your total portfolio. She is managing the stable, low-risk stuff and you invest in the higher-risk funds and stocks. Then together you have a decent 50/50 portfolio (ok, maybe not 50/50, it depends on how much each person puts in, but you get my point).

anoop
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by anoop » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:06 pm

I wouldn't do it.

Search for articles in reputed publications or buy a book. I learned from this one when I got my first job 20+ years ago:
http://www.bethkobliner.com/get-a-financial-life/

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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Dottie57 » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:20 pm

Would your wife be willing to buy I bonds. Would she go for that? How about very short term bonds?

Is her 401k at a place like Fidelity where she can use a brokerage and buy individual U.S. bonds? Just looking for something safer for her.

anoop
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by anoop » Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:30 pm

Dottie57 wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:20 pm
Would your wife be willing to buy I bonds. Would she go for that? How about very short term bonds?

Is her 401k at a place like Fidelity where she can use a brokerage and buy individual U.S. bonds? Just looking for something safer for her.
Unless the 401k specifically has a brokerage option, it may not be possible to buy individual bonds. But money market/stable value funds are safe enough. It's what I use. 100%. Just not as exciting nowadays.

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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by pkcrafter » Fri Feb 23, 2018 9:14 pm

Sockpuppet, if your wife is open to learnvest, then do it. You have made some progress getting her up to 12% contributions in the 401k, but don't push any harder.

Learnvest information and review

https://investorjunkie.com/15569/learnvest-review/

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

livesoft
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by livesoft » Fri Feb 23, 2018 10:00 pm

I don't understand why your spouse would not put Learnvest in the same category as "Wolf of Wall Street" that you already mentioned.

I was asked by an acquaintance to help her answer the question of "Stay with my current financial advisor, use the advisor at my bank, or do it myself?" She did not have the skill set to choose between the bank salesrep, an Edward Jones salesprep, and somebody like Rick Ferri, Allan Roth, or other Boglehead-style advisor. They were all reputable folks who she should trust with her money as far as she was concerned. Her current financial advisor was in the Boglehead-style advisor category, but the bank salesrep was very good at sowing Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt about her current financial advisor.

My point is: How will your spouse distinguish Learnvest from "Wolf of Wall Street"?
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Sockpuppet » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:35 am

Thanks for the tips of looking for a fee based financial planner. I had thought they would cost more than I wanted to pay, but apparently I had not looked hard enough.

We have talked about Ibonds. We were planning to get $10,000 if we got the savings to 50K when they announce the new rates in May.

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Sockpuppet
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Sockpuppet » Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:52 am

anoop wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:30 pm
Dottie57 wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 8:20 pm
Would your wife be willing to buy I bonds. Would she go for that? How about very short term bonds?

Is her 401k at a place like Fidelity where she can use a brokerage and buy individual U.S. bonds? Just looking for something safer for her.
Unless the 401k specifically has a brokerage option, it may not be possible to buy individual bonds. But money market/stable value funds are safe enough. It's what I use. 100%. Just not as exciting nowadays.
Her big objection to a conservative portfolio of bonds or even the FDIC option in her 401K is if we put too much into the 401K and an emergency happens we’ll go bankrupt. “Once you put money into the 401K it’s gone.”

I know my wife isn’t being the best Boglehead, but please keep in mind I love her. She’s pretty frugal, works hard, and is the best thing to happen to me.

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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Taz » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:22 am

Although you are not making the most of the employer match, your wife is making an effort. I grew up in a family with zero savings so think I can understand her reluctance. I think that that paying for an advisor or third party to convince her may backfire. I know it would probably make ME more defensive.

I agree with Momvesting. If your income permits contributing to a Roth IRA, the fact that you can withdraw the contributions anytime means that it might serve as an emergency fund if invested in a very conservative bond fund or even a money market. Overtime, the earnings "portion" could be invested more inline with your desired asset allocation.
The destination matters.

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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by mouses » Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:58 am

Sockpuppet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:52 am

Her big objection to a conservative portfolio of bonds or even the FDIC option in her 401K is if we put too much into the 401K and an emergency happens we’ll go bankrupt. “Once you put money into the 401K it’s gone.”
I haven't read everything. However, I am also financially conservative, almost as much as your DW.

For me, I would not deal with a financial advisor. There have been too many horror stories for me to feel comfortable with that. I would want to really understand the financial implications of everything myself, so I think she should get to that point. Really understanding, not just you saying things are such and such a way without explaining things in detail.

I would beef up the emergency fund to one year to make her feel better. Heck, two years.

Is the 401K money really "gone"? Some places allow people to take loans against their 401Ks. Also if she leaves her job, she can roll the 401K over into an IRA and so have complete control over it.

If she has very conservative investments in the 401K and IRA, like I am even talking CDs here, I think that would make her feel more secure. But what is the most conservative thing available in the 401K? Does it look scary to her?

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Sockpuppet
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Sockpuppet » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:08 am

mouses wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:58 am
Sockpuppet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:52 am

Her big objection to a conservative portfolio of bonds or even the FDIC option in her 401K is if we put too much into the 401K and an emergency happens we’ll go bankrupt. “Once you put money into the 401K it’s gone.”
I haven't read everything. However, I am also financially conservative, almost as much as your DW.

For me, I would not deal with a financial advisor. There have been too many horror stories for me to feel comfortable with that. I would want to really understand the financial implications of everything myself, so I think she should get to that point. Really understanding, not just you saying things are such and such a way without explaining things in detail.

I would beef up the emergency fund to one year to make her feel better. Heck, two years.

Is the 401K money really "gone"? Some places allow people to take loans against their 401Ks. Also if she leaves her job, she can roll the 401K over into an IRA and so have complete control over it.

If she has very conservative investments in the 401K and IRA, like I am even talking CDs here, I think that would make her feel more secure. But what is the most conservative thing available in the 401K? Does it look scary to her?
Ugh...2 years savings. When realistically are we going to need $160K cash for an emergency? Kidnapping?

Her 401K has a FDIC bank option that offers .5% interest. But it’s not just about risk. She’s also concerned about cash flow. That we won’t have enough.

Your probably right that this could backfire. Probably just going to need to continue to work slowly on this.

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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by pkcrafter » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:28 am

sockpuppet, this is a bit confusing--
Her big objection to a conservative portfolio of bonds or even the FDIC option in her 401K is if we put too much into the 401K and an emergency happens we’ll go bankrupt. “Once you put money into the 401K it’s gone.”
So, is her fear about contributing to a 401k based on the idea that the money isn't accessible, or is she reluctant to put money at market risk? She doesn't like stocks and doesn't like bonds, or doesn't like not being able to access the money.

As mentioned, you do need an emergency fund that you can access, which means a taxable account. Also, contributions to a Roth can be withdrawn at anytime, so that's a back-up.

Hardship withdrawals from 401k

https://www.goodfinancialcents.com/401k ... als-rules/

Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.

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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by mouses » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:37 am

Sockpuppet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:08 am
mouses wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:58 am
Sockpuppet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:52 am

Her big objection to a conservative portfolio of bonds or even the FDIC option in her 401K is if we put too much into the 401K and an emergency happens we’ll go bankrupt. “Once you put money into the 401K it’s gone.”
I haven't read everything. However, I am also financially conservative, almost as much as your DW.

For me, I would not deal with a financial advisor. There have been too many horror stories for me to feel comfortable with that. I would want to really understand the financial implications of everything myself, so I think she should get to that point. Really understanding, not just you saying things are such and such a way without explaining things in detail.

I would beef up the emergency fund to one year to make her feel better. Heck, two years.

Is the 401K money really "gone"? Some places allow people to take loans against their 401Ks. Also if she leaves her job, she can roll the 401K over into an IRA and so have complete control over it.

If she has very conservative investments in the 401K and IRA, like I am even talking CDs here, I think that would make her feel more secure. But what is the most conservative thing available in the 401K? Does it look scary to her?
Ugh...2 years savings. When realistically are we going to need $160K cash for an emergency? Kidnapping?

Her 401K has a FDIC bank option that offers .5% interest. But it’s not just about risk. She’s also concerned about cash flow. That we won’t have enough.

Your probably right that this could backfire. Probably just going to need to continue to work slowly on this.
Okay, one year $80K. Six months isn't very long if there is no job and you folk are sweating finding employment. One year ought to make her feel more comfortable. Say you get run over by a truck, and she loses her job. That's the kind of thing we conservative folk envision having to handle.

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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Lafder » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:42 am

It sounds like your wife needs some explanation to understand why a 401k or Roth make HER more money over time by saving on taxes.

Is she aware the IRA or Roth belong to her, not her employer? It is possible the match is not vested, but her contribution is always hers.

The IRA or Roth are just the "label" on the special kinds of tax advantaged accounts that save her taxes over the years.

She can put the IRA or Roth account holdings in money market or other FDIC insured holdings that are not invested in the stock market.

I found Personal Finance For Dummies helpful when I read it years ago to help explain what the different types of accounts are and why to contribute to them.

I would not pay a financial advisor. But maybe you can steer her here to read your post and replies, and find a book or two she could read over time.

It sounds like you have made some progress. Behavioral economics is more about feelings than math. It is her beliefs and anxieties that are keeping her stuck and not open to other perspectives. She can change her feelings over time as she understands more. But I suspect talking about the topic at all raises her anxiety and makes it hard for her to even hear what you are saying, let alone process it. :)

There is pretty consistent advise that if there is an employer match and you can afford to live on the income if you max your contributions to get the match, that you should max the contribution to get the "free money" of the match. I may be biased and perhaps that is opinion not fact. But it seems like a fact to me. :)

How much of an emergency fund of cash outside of investments does she need to feel comfortable? It is reasonable to have a larger than most emergency fund. But not at the expense of not maxing retirement accounts. The savings NOW will make a huge difference in cash flow in retirement when there is no longer income.

lafder

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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:50 am

Sockpuppet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:35 am
Thanks for the tips of looking for a fee based financial planner. I had thought they would cost more than I wanted to pay, but apparently I had not looked hard enough.
Cost more? This guy only charges $96 a year (Plan Vision, Mark Zorill)!

http://workshop.planvisionmn.com/96-plan/

If you want to learn more about him/what he offers as a planner the Dough Roller (Rob Berger) interviewed him here ("Can you get a solid financial plan for only $96?"):

https://www.doughroller.net/financial-p ... ark-zoril/
"May you live as long as you want and never want as long as you live" -- Irish Blessing | "Invest we must" -- Jack Bogle

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Sockpuppet
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Sockpuppet » Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:33 pm

Good news!

Talked to the wife and she was open to a fee only financial advisor, but wanted someone we could meet in person and would ideally cost $200 or less.

If any of you have recommendations for fee only advisors in the Northern Virginia area please private message me!

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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Sandtrap » Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:13 pm

Sockpuppet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 9:33 pm
Good news!

Talked to the wife and she was open to a fee only financial advisor, but wanted someone we could meet in person and would ideally cost $200 or less.

If any of you have recommendations for fee only advisors in the Northern Virginia area please private message me!
Great news!
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Sockpuppet
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Sockpuppet » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:38 am

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:50 am
Sockpuppet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:35 am
Thanks for the tips of looking for a fee based financial planner. I had thought they would cost more than I wanted to pay, but apparently I had not looked hard enough.
Cost more? This guy only charges $96 a year (Plan Vision, Mark Zorill)!

http://workshop.planvisionmn.com/96-plan/

If you want to learn more about him/what he offers as a planner the Dough Roller (Rob Berger) interviewed him here ("Can you get a solid financial plan for only $96?"):

https://www.doughroller.net/financial-p ... ark-zoril/
Really interesting review. Like that he’s into index funds. Anyone ever use this guy?

My only concern is what do you get for $96? A five minute call? This just seems to good to be true.

steadyhead66
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by steadyhead66 » Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:55 pm

Put what she currently invests and the match value in a spreadsheet with say a conservative return and calculate it out 10 or 20 years, then right next to it, put what she would invest at the max with the match value and show the difference using the same conservative return. Turn it into a pretty chart in case she is a visual person. Sometime explaining it is just not enough because words have to be processed and put together to gain understanding where a picture might be very clear.

Here is a 401k Calculator as well: https://www.dinkytown.net/java/Retire401k.html

Northern Flicker
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Northern Flicker » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:23 pm

Try framing investment performance in real (inflation-corrected) terms. A savings account is virtually guaranteed to lose money in real terms. Someone who is highly risk averse should not be pushed to take more risk than that with which they are comfortable. But i-bonds and TIPs ladders maybe should be the starting point, as they are less risky than cash in real terms.
Index fund investor since 1987.

bayview
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Location: WNC

Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by bayview » Sun Feb 25, 2018 2:30 pm

2comma wrote:
Fri Feb 23, 2018 7:45 pm
Hopefully getting some "expert" (whatever that is in her eyes) will help. Unfortunately her bad logic is going to change your future so I'd fight back hard with good logic. There is a lot of information available to refute what she thinks or probably fears. I'd read up on why investing has historically been the correct thing to do then I'd start many little fact based discussions on why you are right on this one. Kind of like a Chinese water torture lite where she's heard all of the arguments over and over and eventually agrees. Good luck!
Wow, does that tactic work on people? It generally makes me want to look for a skull-sized cast-iron skillet to persuade the would-be persuader to try a little silence for a change. :D

--but otherwise, I agree that this is going to be a big hurdle for this new couple to climb.

OP, since you think your wife might be swayed by "girl power", give her something by Jane Bryant Quinn. Perhaps this: https://www.amazon.com/Smart-Simple-Fin ... yant+quinn

There's a way to order through the BH site that helps the costs of running the forum, and I'm sure that if you're interested, someone else can help show how that works.

Perhaps you two can read through it one chapter at a time and discuss Quinn's ideas, and how and whether you might implement them in your own lives.

ETA: also this: https://www.amazon.com/If-You-Can-Mille ... if+you+can I'm guessing that you two are in this target audience, but it's great advice for everyone. It's worth paying for the book version rather than Kindle IMO, but I am old.
The continuous execution of a sound strategy gives you the benefit of the strategy. That's what it's all about. --Rick Ferri

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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. » Sun Feb 25, 2018 3:58 pm

Sockpuppet wrote:
Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:38 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 11:50 am
Sockpuppet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:35 am
Thanks for the tips of looking for a fee based financial planner. I had thought they would cost more than I wanted to pay, but apparently I had not looked hard enough.
Cost more? This guy only charges $96 a year (Plan Vision, Mark Zorill)!

http://workshop.planvisionmn.com/96-plan/

If you want to learn more about him/what he offers as a planner the Dough Roller (Rob Berger) interviewed him here ("Can you get a solid financial plan for only $96?"):

https://www.doughroller.net/financial-p ... ark-zoril/
Really interesting review. Like that he’s into index funds. Anyone ever use this guy?

My only concern is what do you get for $96? A five minute call? This just seems to good to be true.
I believe in the interview (you should listen to it if you'd like to know more...due diligence and all..) he said he does skype interviews with clients. And no I don't think it's a 5 minute interview. I believe the doughroller interview explained how Mark does the data gathering and report generating aspects as well. So if you want to understand what he does, how he does it, and what you'll get for your money, just listen to the interview. The details are all in there.
"May you live as long as you want and never want as long as you live" -- Irish Blessing | "Invest we must" -- Jack Bogle

Katietsu
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by Katietsu » Sun Feb 25, 2018 5:17 pm

Sockpuppet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 10:08 am
mouses wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 7:58 am
Sockpuppet wrote:
Sat Feb 24, 2018 1:52 am

Her big objection to a conservative portfolio of bonds or even the FDIC option in her 401K is if we put too much into the 401K and an emergency happens we’ll go bankrupt. “Once you put money into the 401K it’s gone.”
I haven't read everything. However, I am also financially conservative, almost as much as your DW.

For me, I would not deal with a financial advisor. There have been too many horror stories for me to feel comfortable with that. I would want to really understand the financial implications of everything myself, so I think she should get to that point. Really understanding, not just you saying things are such and such a way without explaining things in detail.

I would beef up the emergency fund to one year to make her feel better. Heck, two years.

Is the 401K money really "gone"? Some places allow people to take loans against their 401Ks. Also if she leaves her job, she can roll the 401K over into an IRA and so have complete control over it.

If she has very conservative investments in the 401K and IRA, like I am even talking CDs here, I think that would make her feel more secure. But what is the most conservative thing available in the 401K? Does it look scary to her?
Ugh...2 years savings. When realistically are we going to need $160K cash for an emergency? Kidnapping?

Her 401K has a FDIC bank option that offers .5% interest. But it’s not just about risk. She’s also concerned about cash flow. That we won’t have enough.

Your probably right that this could backfire. Probably just going to need to continue to work slowly on this.

I was not willing to put money in a retirement plan until I had 2 years worth of savings accessible. While I might be in the minority here, I am not alone on this forum at wanting an easily accessible no risk hefty emergency fund. I am currently using the 1.75% interest penalty free Ally CD's for this purpose. In a different post, I have linked to a scientific study which shows that the amount of cash in the bank is more important than net worth of investments in allowing people to sleep at night. There is no amount of education that will change that feeling for me. We built up a $50,000 emergency fund during the first 4 years after college with a combined income of less than $50,000. I did not feel comfortable until we doubled that to $100,000 and that was in the 1990's. I do not want to outline the emergencies that I envisioned, but none of them included kidnapping. All of them were events and situations that I had personally witnessed in the lives of family members, neighbors and acquaintances.

My advice is to give you wife what she needs to feel secure. It is not unreasonable. Stick with the $12,000 into the 401k. Max out the Roth IRA which your wife should accept once she understands that she has full access to it at anytime. Then beef up your emergency fund to something reasonable. Your current emergency fund is too low for many of us and more importantly for your wife. Then, go back and up the 401k contribution. Recognize that your wife is contributing more to her 401k than almost all Americans. Applaud that.

ReadyOrNot
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Re: Should I Pay Learnvest for Financial Advice to Convince Wife?

Post by ReadyOrNot » Mon Feb 26, 2018 6:48 pm

She should read some common-sense books, such as from Jane Bryant Quinn or Andrew Tobias (Only Investment Guide You Will Ever Need). They all say don't leave money on the table such as matching for 401K.
Also, I think most 401Ks should allow you to remove your own contributions without penalty (you still have to pay tax on it). The IRS literature doesn't emphasize this, and I had a hard time trying to look it up, so I am not sure of the details.
(When I was laid off I looked into how to get money out of a 401K or 403B if necessary. There are a number of situations where you can get money out without penalty -- medical need, substantially equal payouts like an annuity, retirement from your last employer, etc. When I asked a TIAA advisor about annuity options before retirement age, he pointed out that I could always remove my own contributions without penalty, not the growth or the matching. I never had to do this, but it was comforting. I think I have heard this on a credit union commercial as well.
At your early stage, your own contributions represent a big part of your 401K, and the only part that you thought you were giving up or locking up by contributing to your 401K.) Ask your wife's 401K custodian about this. If you are allowed to remove your own contributions, you do not give up any emergency funding cash flow by contributing to your 401K (except for the small delay it takes to get the funds out). Of course, you are advised to never take this option because you would be giving up the future growth of the funds within the 401K. But it is available in an emergency, which is psychologically comforting.

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