Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

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KATNYC
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:34 pm

Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by KATNYC » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:28 pm

Opening the HSA with https://healthsavings.com/ I was not expecting to see Vanguard Admiral Shares are available.
I am interested in some of the listed funds like VMRAX, VWILX, VTSAX and VMRAX but the ER is much higher than I expected.



Vanguard GNMA Fund Admiral Shares 1.97% 1.96% 3.95% 4.57% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VFIJX Net Expense Ratio: 0.11
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Intermediate Government

Vanguard Morgan Growth Fund Admiral Shares 30.00% 16.57% 8.70% 7.31% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VMRAX Net Expense Ratio: 0.28
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Large Growth

Vanguard Small-Cap Index Fund Admiral Shares 16.24% 14.44% 9.68% 9.41% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VSMAX Net Expense Ratio: 0.06
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Small Blend

Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund Admiral Shares 21.17% 15.55% 8.72% 6.69% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VTSAX Net Expense Ratio: 0.04
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Large Blend

Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares 27.55% 7.12% 1.92% 6.15% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VTIAX Net Expense Ratio: 0.11
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Foreign Large Blend

Vanguard LifeStrategy Moderate Growth Fund 15.04% 8.58% 5.42% 7.79% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VSMGX Net Expense Ratio: 0.14
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Allocation--50% to 70% Equity

Vanguard LifeStrategy Conservative Growth Fund 10.92% 6.48% 4.76% 7.02% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VSCGX Net Expense Ratio: 0.13
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Allocation--30% to 50% Equity

Vanguard Wellington Fund Admiral (Fund closed to new investors) 14.82% 10.95% 7.60% 7.84% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VWENX Net Expense Ratio: 0.16
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Allocation--50% to 70% Equity

Vanguard Strategic Equity Fund 13.78% 16.31% 9.15% 10.95% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VSEQX Net Expense Ratio: 0.18
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Mid-Cap Blend

Vanguard Selected Value Fund 19.51% 15.11% 9.44% 9.43% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VASVX Net Expense Ratio: 0.35
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Mid-Cap Value

Vanguard Windsor II Fund Admiral Shares 16.89% 13.33% 7.19% 7.07% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VWNAX Net Expense Ratio: 0.25
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Large Value

Vanguard International Growth Fund Admiral Shares 43.16% 11.02% 4.74% 7.86% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VWILX Net Expense Ratio: 0.32
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Foreign Large Growth

Vanguard Mid-Cap Index Fund Admiral Shares 19.25% 15.01% 8.92% 10.25% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VIMAX Net Expense Ratio: 0.06
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Mid-Cap Blend

Vanguard 500 Index Fund Admiral Shares 21.79% 15.75% 8.49% 6.12% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VFIAX Net Expense Ratio: 0.04
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Large Blend

Vanguard Extended Market Index Fund Admiral Shares 18.11% 14.58% 9.29% 8.27% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VEXAX Net Expense Ratio: 0.08
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Mid-Cap Blend

Vanguard Balanced Index Fund Admiral 13.89% 10.09% 7.14% 6.28% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VBIAX Net Expense Ratio: 0.07
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Allocation--50% to 70% Equity

Vanguard Mid Cap Growth Index Admiral 21.83% 14.08% 7.75% 14.30% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VMGMX Net Expense Ratio: 0.07
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Mid-Cap Growth

Vanguard FTSE Social Index Fund 24.11% 17.00% 8.61% 4.58% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VFTSX Net Expense Ratio: 0.20
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Large Blend

Vanguard STAR Fund 18.33% 9.75% 6.67% 9.60% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VGSTX Net Expense Ratio: 0.32
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Allocation--50% to 70% Equity

Vanguard LifeStrategy Growth Fund 19.21% 10.64% 5.75% 8.27% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VASGX Net Expense Ratio: 0.15
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Allocation--70% to 85% Equity

Vanguard LifeStrategy Income Fund 6.98% 4.36% 4.13% 6.32% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VASIX Net Expense Ratio: 0.12
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Allocation--15% to 30% Equity

Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Admiral Shares 3.57% 2.02% 3.95% 4.20% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VBTLX Net Expense Ratio: 0.05
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Intermediate-Term Bond

Vanguard Mid-Cap Growth Fund 22.01% 12.80% 8.19% 10.12% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VMGRX Net Expense Ratio: 0.36
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Mid-Cap Growth

Vanguard Prime Money Market 1.03% 0.32% 0.50% 5.02% Details | Prospectus | Site
Ticker: VMMXX Net Expense Ratio: 0.16
Morningstar Rating:
Morningstar Category: Prime Money Market

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indexfundfan
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Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by indexfundfan » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:44 pm

Is your account sponsored by your employer? I see an annual fee of $45 PLUS a AUM fee of 0.25%. These fees are not competitive.
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Finridge
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by Finridge » Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:48 am

A year ago, I spent a lot of time looking into options and pricing out different providers, including time spent on this forum. I needed to get my own HSA provider (my employer wasn't providing this), and I wanted to be able to invest my account into index funds from dollar one. On these criteria, Heathsavings was the best choice, and had the best pricing.

This was a year ago, and I understand that Lively has slightly better pricing now, but they are new and largely untested.

KATNYC
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:34 pm

Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by KATNYC » Sun Jan 14, 2018 1:17 am

indexfundfan wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:44 pm
Is your account sponsored by your employer? I see an annual fee of $45 PLUS a AUM fee of 0.25%. These fees are not competitive.
No, my employer doesn't offer an HSA although our plan qualifies.

There are a few HSA we checked out. We are also looking at The HSA Authority. We want an HSA with no investment threshold.
HSA Authority has a $1,000 minimum.

HSA Authority Vanguard options are:

Vanguard 500 Index Admiral VFIAX Large Blend ER 0.04
Vanguard Developed Markets Index Inv VDVIX Foreign Large Blend ER 0.17
Vanguard Emerging Mkts Stock Idx Adm VEMAX Diversified Emerging Mkts ER 0.14
Vanguard Growth Index Admiral VIGAX Large Growth ER 0.06
Vanguard Inflation-Protected Secs Inv VIPSX Inflation-Protected Bond ER 0.20
Vanguard LifeStrategy Cnsrv Gr Inv VSCGX Allocation--30% to 50% Equity ER 0.13
Vanguard LifeStrategy Growth Inv VASGX Allocation--70% to 85% Equity ER 0.15
Vanguard Mid Cap Index Admiral VIMAX Mid-Cap Blend ER 0.06
Vanguard REIT Index Admiral VGSLX Real Estate ER 0.12
Vanguard Short-Term Bond Index Adm VBIRX Short-Term Bond ER 0.07
Vanguard Short-Term Corp Bd Idx Admiral VSCSX Short-Term Bond ER 0.07
Vanguard Small Cap Index Adm VSMAX Small Blend ER 0.06
Vanguard Small Cap Value Index Inv VISVX Small Value ER 0.19
Vanguard STAR Inv VGSTX Allocation--50% to 70% Equity ER 0.32
Vanguard Total Stock Mkt Idx Adm VTSAX Large Blend ER 0.04
Vanguard Value Index Adm VVIAX Large Value ER 0.06
Vanguard Wellington Admiral VWENX Allocation--50% to 70% Equity ER 0.16
Last edited by KATNYC on Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:15 am, edited 2 times in total.

KATNYC
Posts: 434
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Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by KATNYC » Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:18 am

Finridge wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:48 am
A year ago, I spent a lot of time looking into options and pricing out different providers, including time spent on this forum. I needed to get my own HSA provider (my employer wasn't providing this), and I wanted to be able to invest my account into index funds from dollar one. On these criteria, Heathsavings was the best choice, and had the best pricing.

This was a year ago, and I understand that Lively has slightly better pricing now, but they are new and largely untested.
Lively is one of the cheapest options but they are removing all the Vanguard ETFs from the commission-free platform.
The HSA Authority has a $1,000 threshold but then you can move 100% to investments. They do not have a dollar one option. They have Vanguards funds (albeit fewer options) than HealthSavings.

Finridge
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by Finridge » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:25 am

KATNYC wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:18 am
Finridge wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 12:48 am
A year ago, I spent a lot of time looking into options and pricing out different providers, including time spent on this forum. I needed to get my own HSA provider (my employer wasn't providing this), and I wanted to be able to invest my account into index funds from dollar one. On these criteria, Heathsavings was the best choice, and had the best pricing.

This was a year ago, and I understand that Lively has slightly better pricing now, but they are new and largely untested.
Lively is one of the cheapest options but they are removing all the Vanguard ETFs from the commission-free platform.
The HSA Authority has a $1,000 threshold but then you can move 100% to investments. They do not have a dollar one option. They have Vanguards funds (albeit fewer options) than HealthSavings.
Thanks. I was just looking at their web site. I remember looking at them and choosing not to go with them a year ago. I see that HSA Authority is charging $36 a year. It's not clear if there is any other fees--I don't see any others mentioned. But having to keep $1,000 in cash is a deal killer. Given the impact on projected returns, that is more "expensive" then the Healthsavings' AUM fee. At least it will be for me until my HSA balance is considerably larger then it is now.

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indexfundfan
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Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by indexfundfan » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:41 am

Finridge wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:25 am
Thanks. I was just looking at their web site. I remember looking at them and choosing not to go with them a year ago. I see that HSA Authority is charging $36 a year. It's not clear if there is any other fees--I don't see any others mentioned. But having to keep $1,000 in cash is a deal killer. Given the impact on projected returns, that is more "expensive" then the Healthsavings' AUM fee. At least it will be for me until my HSA balance is considerably larger then it is now.
I had looked at HSA Authority but I ultimately did not go with them. But if I recall correctly, the $1000 requirement is the threshold to open the investment account. Once you reach that, you can transfer the entire $1000 into the investment account. There is no need to keep that in cash.
And the $36/year is the only fee.
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jhfenton
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Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by jhfenton » Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:50 am

KATNYC wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:18 am
Lively is one of the cheapest options but they are removing all the Vanguard ETFs from the commission-free platform.
The HSA Authority has a $1,000 threshold but then you can move 100% to investments. They do not have a dollar one option. They have Vanguards funds (albeit fewer options) than HealthSavings.
The Vanguard ETFs were removed from TD Ameritrade's commission-free platform in October, literally while my HSA rollover check to Lively was in the mail. But once I got over being annoyed, I saw that there were still compelling ultra-low-cost choices. So instead of VWO (Vanguard Emerging Markets ETF) at 14 bp, I am using SPEM (SPDR Portfolio Emerging Markets ETF) at 11 bp. I don't see that difference as reason to pay far more somewhere else. (There are similar low-cost equivalents for most of the core Vanguard ETFs. The one exception is probably VSS. There is no comparable fund in existence, let alone at that price point.)

Lively charges $2.50/month from a linked bank account, not from the HSA. Every dollar from the first dollar can be moved into a linked TD Ameritrade account. Opening an account takes 5 minutes online. And their customer service is very responsive if you have any questions.

harvestbook
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Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by harvestbook » Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:27 am

We use HSA Administrators as well. I was going to change to HSA Authority but having to mail in or call to move money around doesn't appeal to me, and HSA Authority had no decent bond choices (all actively managed with ERs of .5 and up, if I remember correctly.) I know I'm paying a little more with the .25 wrap fee but having the admiral funds cuts my costs down to maybe .3 overall plus the annual fee, while HSA Authority does not offer admiral funds so they would average .15 or up for my preferred AA. For ease of use since we DCA, It wasn't worth the move at this time.

I do expect to find a better HSA provider someday but for this year at least we're riding it out. If Lively gets better established, it's a possibility for us. I'm just not going to waste my time having to mail forms and make calls in the year 2018.
I'm not smart enough to know, and I can't afford to guess.

KATNYC
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Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by KATNYC » Sun Jan 14, 2018 3:36 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:41 am
Finridge wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:25 am
Thanks. I was just looking at their web site. I remember looking at them and choosing not to go with them a year ago. I see that HSA Authority is charging $36 a year. It's not clear if there is any other fees--I don't see any others mentioned. But having to keep $1,000 in cash is a deal killer. Given the impact on projected returns, that is more "expensive" then the Healthsavings' AUM fee. At least it will be for me until my HSA balance is considerably larger then it is now.
I had looked at HSA Authority but I ultimately did not go with them. But if I recall correctly, the $1000 requirement is the threshold to open the investment account. Once you reach that, you can transfer the entire $1000 into the investment account. There is no need to keep that in cash.
And the $36/year is the only fee.
Yes, that is my understanding of HSA Authority as well, $1,000 threshold but you can sweep it all to the investments without a requirement to leave any money sitting in cash. Having to pick up the phone to transfer money to the investment account isn't appealing. I'm waiting until Tuesday now to handle some financial business with another company since it requires a phone call, no online option. I called too late on Friday to take care of it.

KATNYC
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Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by KATNYC » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:10 pm

harvestbook wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 11:27 am
We use HSA Administrators as well. I was going to change to HSA Authority but having to mail in or call to move money around doesn't appeal to me, and HSA Authority had no decent bond choices (all actively managed with ERs of .5 and up, if I remember correctly.) I know I'm paying a little more with the .25 wrap fee but having the admiral funds cuts my costs down to maybe .3 overall plus the annual fee, while HSA Authority does not offer admiral funds so they would average .15 or up for my preferred AA. For ease of use since we DCA, It wasn't worth the move at this time.

I do expect to find a better HSA provider someday but for this year at least we're riding it out. If Lively gets better established, it's a possibility for us. I'm just not going to waste my time having to mail forms and make calls in the year 2018.
I'm admittedly intrigued by Lively but it's such a new player that I dismissed them early on during my research.

KATNYC
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Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by KATNYC » Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:16 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:50 am
KATNYC wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:18 am
Lively is one of the cheapest options but they are removing all the Vanguard ETFs from the commission-free platform.
The HSA Authority has a $1,000 threshold but then you can move 100% to investments. They do not have a dollar one option. They have Vanguards funds (albeit fewer options) than HealthSavings.
The Vanguard ETFs were removed from TD Ameritrade's commission-free platform in October, literally while my HSA rollover check to Lively was in the mail. But once I got over being annoyed, I saw that there were still compelling ultra-low-cost choices. So instead of VWO (Vanguard Emerging Markets ETF) at 14 bp, I am using SPEM (SPDR Portfolio Emerging Markets ETF) at 11 bp. I don't see that difference as reason to pay far more somewhere else. (There are similar low-cost equivalents for most of the core Vanguard ETFs. The one exception is probably VSS. There is no comparable fund in existence, let alone at that price point.)

Lively charges $2.50/month from a linked bank account, not from the HSA. Every dollar from the first dollar can be moved into a linked TD Ameritrade account. Opening an account takes 5 minutes online. And their customer service is very responsive if you have any questions.
Can you share more about your Lively experience? I've had a TD investment account for a while. Can they be linked so I can make HSA investments without logging in to Lively? As I understand it, if I want to buy VSS for a Lively HSA, I can still do that for a $6.95 fee.

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jhfenton
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Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by jhfenton » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:23 pm

KATNYC wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:16 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:50 am
KATNYC wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:18 am
Lively is one of the cheapest options but they are removing all the Vanguard ETFs from the commission-free platform.
The HSA Authority has a $1,000 threshold but then you can move 100% to investments. They do not have a dollar one option. They have Vanguards funds (albeit fewer options) than HealthSavings.
The Vanguard ETFs were removed from TD Ameritrade's commission-free platform in October, literally while my HSA rollover check to Lively was in the mail. But once I got over being annoyed, I saw that there were still compelling ultra-low-cost choices. So instead of VWO (Vanguard Emerging Markets ETF) at 14 bp, I am using SPEM (SPDR Portfolio Emerging Markets ETF) at 11 bp. I don't see that difference as reason to pay far more somewhere else. (There are similar low-cost equivalents for most of the core Vanguard ETFs. The one exception is probably VSS. There is no comparable fund in existence, let alone at that price point.)

Lively charges $2.50/month from a linked bank account, not from the HSA. Every dollar from the first dollar can be moved into a linked TD Ameritrade account. Opening an account takes 5 minutes online. And their customer service is very responsive if you have any questions.
Can you share more about your Lively experience? I've had a TD investment account for a while. Can they be linked so I can make HSA investments without logging in to Lively? As I understand it, if I want to buy VSS for a Lively HSA, I can still do that for a $6.95 fee.
Yes. Once everything is set up, you do not need to log into Lively at all except to transfer new HSA money from Lively into your TDA account. Your Lively-TDA account is a normal TDA account in every way except that you cannot directly deposit into or withdraw from it. (TDA isn’t set up to handle the HSA tax-reporting.) Except when I’m waiting on a quarterly transfer from my employer-sponsored HSA, I don’t have any reason to log into my Lively account. If you have other TDA accounts, you can link them together in the usual way.

I posted my comments on the initial process in the original Lively thread. I’ve been delighted with my Lively experience so far. They seem to be doing everything right, even down to prorating the first month’s $2.50 investment fee. (And I like that they don’t take the fee from your precious HSA money, but from a linked checking account.)

Finridge
Posts: 498
Joined: Mon May 16, 2011 7:27 pm

Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by Finridge » Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:44 pm

indexfundfan wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:41 am
Finridge wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:25 am
Thanks. I was just looking at their web site. I remember looking at them and choosing not to go with them a year ago. I see that HSA Authority is charging $36 a year. It's not clear if there is any other fees--I don't see any others mentioned. But having to keep $1,000 in cash is a deal killer. Given the impact on projected returns, that is more "expensive" then the Healthsavings' AUM fee. At least it will be for me until my HSA balance is considerably larger then it is now.
I had looked at HSA Authority but I ultimately did not go with them. But if I recall correctly, the $1000 requirement is the threshold to open the investment account. Once you reach that, you can transfer the entire $1000 into the investment account. There is no need to keep that in cash.
And the $36/year is the only fee.
Really!? Well, the lack of clarity on this point on their web site cost them at least one customer then (me).

KATNYC
Posts: 434
Joined: Fri Apr 07, 2017 4:34 pm

Re: Opening an HSA - Vanguard Admiral Shares available

Post by KATNYC » Sun Jan 14, 2018 7:07 pm

jhfenton wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 5:23 pm
KATNYC wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 4:16 pm
jhfenton wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 8:50 am
KATNYC wrote:
Sun Jan 14, 2018 2:18 am
Lively is one of the cheapest options but they are removing all the Vanguard ETFs from the commission-free platform.
The HSA Authority has a $1,000 threshold but then you can move 100% to investments. They do not have a dollar one option. They have Vanguards funds (albeit fewer options) than HealthSavings.
The Vanguard ETFs were removed from TD Ameritrade's commission-free platform in October, literally while my HSA rollover check to Lively was in the mail. But once I got over being annoyed, I saw that there were still compelling ultra-low-cost choices. So instead of VWO (Vanguard Emerging Markets ETF) at 14 bp, I am using SPEM (SPDR Portfolio Emerging Markets ETF) at 11 bp. I don't see that difference as reason to pay far more somewhere else. (There are similar low-cost equivalents for most of the core Vanguard ETFs. The one exception is probably VSS. There is no comparable fund in existence, let alone at that price point.)

Lively charges $2.50/month from a linked bank account, not from the HSA. Every dollar from the first dollar can be moved into a linked TD Ameritrade account. Opening an account takes 5 minutes online. And their customer service is very responsive if you have any questions.
Can you share more about your Lively experience? I've had a TD investment account for a while. Can they be linked so I can make HSA investments without logging in to Lively? As I understand it, if I want to buy VSS for a Lively HSA, I can still do that for a $6.95 fee.
Yes. Once everything is set up, you do not need to log into Lively at all except to transfer new HSA money from Lively into your TDA account. Your Lively-TDA account is a normal TDA account in every way except that you cannot directly deposit into or withdraw from it. (TDA isn’t set up to handle the HSA tax-reporting.) Except when I’m waiting on a quarterly transfer from my employer-sponsored HSA, I don’t have any reason to log into my Lively account. If you have other TDA accounts, you can link them together in the usual way.

I posted my comments on the initial process in the original Lively thread. I’ve been delighted with my Lively experience so far. They seem to be doing everything right, even down to prorating the first month’s $2.50 investment fee. (And I like that they don’t take the fee from your precious HSA money, but from a linked checking account.)
This is excellent information. Thanks so much for sharing. We are going to review the original Lively thread and make a decision by Tuesday.

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