25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

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Slowtraveler
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25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Slowtraveler » Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:35 am

Hello,

I am a 25 year old with a high income, 401k, Roth IRA, and taxable account.

I currently have a low 6 figure amount in my taxable split evenly between total international and total us stock market. I have about as much as in each equity fund in between my 401k and Roth in Wellesley. I plan on retiring in 5 years with a 2.5% wr and will reach this assuming 5% returns and a stable salary.

My annual expenses are ~25k and this includes a huge amount of discretionary expenses. I can't even remember the last time I cooked my own food. Housing is under $100/month, I have no car, I hate large houses with a passion, I am healthy. I have lived in the fancy house with a fancy car before and find it nauseating.

I have worked since I legally could so I am eligible for SS even if I stop working next year.

Emergency funds: 1 year expenses (28)
Debt: 0
Tax Filing Status: Single with FEIE
Tax Rate: ~4-6% effective due to 401k and FEIE, 0 state
State of Residence: non tax state
Age: 25
Desired Asset allocation: 70% stocks / 30% bonds
Desired International allocation: 40-50% of stocks

Current retirement assets
401k& Roth Wellesley

Taxable
Half International and half US

Questions:
1. Right now I am at a 1/3 split between International, US, and Wellesley but I want to move towards a more conservative split. Would it be wrong or foolish to move towards a 1/4 each split between US, International, Wellesley, and Global Wellesley?

2. Or would it be better to have half in domestic Wellesley as it is more established then a quarter each into International and US?

Other options I've looked into include total bond market, small value, emerging markets, and Wellington but they are either too concentrated in financials, government bonds, or carry too much risk for me in some way so a half half global and domestic Wellesley split seems the right fit for my conservative portion but global Wellesley is new so maybe just half Wellesley, a quarter international and a quarter domestic is the better fit.

Thank you.
Last edited by Slowtraveler on Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:34 am, edited 4 times in total.

hafjell
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by hafjell » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:00 am

In five years you will (likely) be a completely different person with completely different concerns.
Stay the course. Sock money away. Revisit in five years if you don't have a spouse and kids who help you decide to keep working.

KlangFool
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by KlangFool » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:05 am

OP,

1) Your question could not be answered unless we know your annual expense.

2) Unless your portfolio is about 100 or more times your annual expense in 5 years, I do not think you have enough.

KlangFool

livesoft
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by livesoft » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:08 am

No one can predict the future. I wouldn't be using any kind of Wellesley or other balanced fund or fund of funds myself because it muddies the waters when it comes to asset allocation, tax-efficiency, and other tax management.

Have you read the EarlyRetirementNow series on your situation? -> https://earlyretirementnow.com/2016/12/ ... t-1-intro/
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tuningfork
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by tuningfork » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:10 am

What do the simulators like Firecalc, cFireSim and i-Orp tell you about how long $1,000,000 will last? What are your annual expenses projected to be? Have you considered health insurance costs, especially in later years? How much social security will you get, if any, with such a short working career? You'll need to plan for your money to last at least 60 years

adamthesmythe
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by adamthesmythe » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:11 am

hafjell wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:00 am
In five years you will (likely) be a completely different person with completely different concerns.
Stay the course. Sock money away. Revisit in five years if you don't have a spouse and kids who help you decide to keep working.
I think this is the biggest issue. You can only guess what your tastes for consumption will be in 40 years (travel, food, housing, car) and you don't know your relationship status.

By the way, "not working" could really complicate developing future relationships. Maybe not so much if you are independently wealthy- but that means tens of millions at least, not millions.

Slowtraveler
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by Slowtraveler » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:17 am

My annual expenses are around 25k/year so I'd have a 2.5%wr, I've never heard of 1% being required no matter the age. At that rate, I could have only TIPS...

Thanks livesoft for actually addressing the question. I like Wellesley because it has had strong returns, has a well balanced portfolio, and has had a great withdraw rate even when the S&P was flat from 99-09. I'm okay with it being less tax efficient. If half my portfolio is in Wellesley or it's global alternative, I'd have a 70/30 split, which is what I'm aiming for.

I've been working since I was 15 so I'll have more than 10 years necessary for social security.

I don't live in the states now so health insurance is not a problem. Great health care is dirt cheap where I live and it is not a law suit heavy country.

My current expenses actually include having my partner live with me and covering her basic living expenses so there is a large room for cutting down if I end up single or move somewhere even cheaper.

My question is actually more about the reasonability of living off half Wellesley and half equities split between International and US. And then whether global and domestic or only domestic Wellesley would be safer...

quantAndHold
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by quantAndHold » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:23 am

$1M isn’t nearly enough to just stop earning money forever, but it’s a good start towards financial independence.

You also need to consider that you need 10 years worth of earnings to qualify for Medicare and Social Security. Which you may not care about now, but you will absolutely care about when you’re older.

Besides the Early Retirement Now blogs, you should read William Bernstein’s “The Ages of the Investor”. I would not be getting conservative with my investments until I was actually trying to live off of them. And possibly not even then, if the investments needed to support me for another 70 years.

livesoft
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by livesoft » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:36 am

Slowtraveler wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:17 am
. I like Wellesley because it has had strong returns, has a well balanced portfolio, and has had a great withdraw rate even when the S&P was flat from 99-09.
You have created an illusion for yourself. You can mimic Wellesley for yourself by combining one or more stock and bond funds, then doing the rebalancing yourself in a tax efficient way. You should not be comparing Wellesley (a balanced fund) to an all-stock S&P. If you do not understand why you shouldn't do that, then that's OK, but you will want to have more knowledge in the future.
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Slowtraveler
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Slowtraveler » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:41 am

@Livesoft
I've looked into using bond and equity indexes but 60/40 has underperformed Wellesley since inception even though Wellesley is less tax efficient and carries a higher er. Since inception it is over 50% higher and it has had lower sequence of return risk in the past, which is the big killer of a portfolio in early retirement.

http://www.morningstar.com/funds/xnas/vwiax/quote.html

Maybe I'm asking my question poorly as I'm getting more objections than guidance on using Wellesley. Particularly, whether global is an okay fit considering how new it is or just using domestic is better for my Bond allocation. Global has underperformed domestic since it's opened.

Please let me know what to better phrase.

70/30 is not particularly conservative. And Wellesley has had strong returns even with its high bond percentage. All the calculators I have looked at show a runaway wealth situation as I'm practically living on dividends and interest.
Last edited by Slowtraveler on Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

financeidiot
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by financeidiot » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:45 am

Your current position is defensible, your proposed 1/4 each position is defensible. The solution is to set aside a couple hours (or read some investment books like All About Asset Allocation by Rick Ferri) pick an allocation, write it down (as part of your investment policy statement) and stick to it.

A place to start would be defining "safer." Is "safer" the more diversified position that is closer to global equity distribution? In that case, a 50/50 domestic/international split may make sense. Is "safer" the allocation with the highest past performance? In that case, a higher domestic tilt would make sense. Is "safer" the allocation that is least likely to experience short term losses? In that case, a higher bond allocation makes sense. Is "safer" the allocation that is least likely to let you run out of money in the long term? In that case, a higher equity allocation makes sense. If you write down your needs, goals, and beliefs about diversification and asset classes, the solution will show itself to you.

As for the differences between domestic and global Wellesley, pick your asset allocations and goals first, then find out how to make those two funds fit what you have decided.

Congrats on the high income and net worth at such a young age!

NYC_Guy
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by NYC_Guy » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:46 am

Good for you! Ignore others that say you will be a different person in five years. You may be, but you’re asking us about the financial aspects of this.

Here are my thoughts:

1) Don’t quit until you have at least 10 years of social security credit. I also would suggest that you not FIRE until you are safely past the first bend point - you need to do a projected AIME calculation.

2) Have at least half your assets in taxable accounts. I would aim for 75% in taxable if it were me at your age. You may want to be generating income.

3) Generally stick to a simple three fund Boglehead portfolio. But a high yield debt fund (a low cost index fund, of course) may make sense for you to generate income.

4) Estimate for private pay insurance and medical of at least $10k per year. I would plan for $12,500 personally.

5) Consider Obamacare cliff and Medicaid. Maybe being on Medicaid works for you (it wouldn’t be acceptable to me). This decision may drive some of your fund placement.

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climber2020
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by climber2020 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:47 am

quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:23 am
$1M isn’t nearly enough to just stop earning money forever, but it’s a good start towards financial independence.
He doesn't live in the United States. In many other places in the world, especially countries with universal health coverage, $1M would be plenty.

quantAndHold
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by quantAndHold » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:51 am

climber2020 wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:47 am
quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:23 am
$1M isn’t nearly enough to just stop earning money forever, but it’s a good start towards financial independence.
He doesn't live in the United States. In many other places in the world, especially countries with universal health coverage, $1M would be plenty.
Then why is he talking about qualifying for Social Security? He may be living abroad now, but he’s clearly American.

quantAndHold
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by quantAndHold » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:57 am

You’re basing your calculations on 5% return. Is that real or nominal? If it’s real, then your expected returns are probably too high for a 70/30 portfolio. If it’s nominal, then what inflation rate are you figuring?

Are you planning on continuing to live wherever you are after you stop working? Will you legally be able to do that?

Slowtraveler
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by Slowtraveler » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:15 pm

financeidiot wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:45 am
A place to start would be defining "safer." Is "safer" the more diversified position that is closer to global equity distribution? In that case, a 50/50 domestic/international split may make sense. Is "safer" the allocation with the highest past performance? In that case, a higher domestic tilt would make sense. Is "safer" the allocation that is least likely to experience short term losses? In that case, a higher bond allocation makes sense. Is "safer" the allocation that is least likely to let you run out of money in the long term? In that case, a higher equity allocation makes sense. If you write down your needs, goals, and beliefs about diversification and asset classes, the solution will show itself to you.

As for the differences between domestic and global Wellesley, pick your asset allocations and goals first, then find out how to make those two funds fit what you have decided.

Congrats on the high income and net worth at such a young age!
Thanks for the praise! I read the Ferri book at the library when I used to live in the states.

Safer is the portfolio likely to be more resilient to provide a 3%wr going forward. So likely a half split between domestic and international for equities. I started with a higher emerging and value allocation and have moved towards total market as I've been investing longer. Before that I was actually in individual stocks and barely broke even. Very lucky as one of my first stock picks declared bankruptcy shortly after I exited.

Needs: 2.5% wr

Goals: Long term growth, able to provide up to 3%wr. Preserve principle. Allow me to keep travelling the world in low col areas, spend time with family, enjoy love in a relaxed setting.

Beliefs: US has a more promising business environment but higher valuations that are likely to lead to lower long term returns. But nothing is truly knowable.

My assets will be about 75% in taxable, 20% in traditional 401k, 5% in a Roth.

I can live where I am as long as I move every 3 months or get a longer term visa. Flights are not particularly expensive (under 2k/yr if they are all distant international, 400/yr if local international-not counting bonus miles which makes it essentially free), trains or buses for border runs are even less so. A business Visa is the best solution for long term travel where I am. I can't imagine going back to the States. I'm more likely to live with family in low col countries than going back there but living independently is far nicer to me.

Inflation is negligible in 5 year time frames, especially considering that I'm planning on decreasing my expenses. I plan on cooking more and travelling slower. My food and massage expenses make up more than half my budget. I could live on under 10/yr easily but it would cut qol some (bored more).

I'd love more feedback on the financial and investing side rather than the lifestyle differences that may emerge later.

Snowjob
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Snowjob » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:29 pm

Slowtraveler wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:15 pm
financeidiot wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:45 am
A place to start would be defining "safer." Is "safer" the more diversified position that is closer to global equity distribution? In that case, a 50/50 domestic/international split may make sense. Is "safer" the allocation with the highest past performance? In that case, a higher domestic tilt would make sense. Is "safer" the allocation that is least likely to experience short term losses? In that case, a higher bond allocation makes sense. Is "safer" the allocation that is least likely to let you run out of money in the long term? In that case, a higher equity allocation makes sense. If you write down your needs, goals, and beliefs about diversification and asset classes, the solution will show itself to you.

As for the differences between domestic and global Wellesley, pick your asset allocations and goals first, then find out how to make those two funds fit what you have decided.

Congrats on the high income and net worth at such a young age!
Thanks for the praise! I read the Ferri book at the library when I used to live in the states.

Safer is the portfolio likely to be more resilient to provide a 3%wr going forward. So likely a half split between domestic and international for equities. I started with a higher emerging and value allocation and have moved towards total market as I've been investing longer. Before that I was actually in individual stocks and barely broke even. Very lucky as one of my first stock picks declared bankruptcy shortly after I exited.

Needs: 2.5% wr

Goals: Long term growth, able to provide up to 3%wr. Preserve principle. Allow me to keep travelling the world in low col areas, spend time with family, enjoy love in a relaxed setting.

Beliefs: US has a more promising business environment but higher valuations that are likely to lead to lower long term returns. But nothing is truly knowable.

My assets will be about 75% in taxable, 20% in traditional 401k, 5% in a Roth.

I can live where I am as long as I move every 3 months or get a longer term visa. Flights are not particularly expensive (under 2k/yr if they are all distant international, 400/yr if local international-not counting bonus miles which makes it essentially free), trains or buses for border runs are even less so. A business Visa is the best solution for long term travel where I am. I can't imagine going back to the States. I'm more likely to live with family in low col countries than going back there but living independently is far nicer to me.

Inflation is negligible in 5 year time frames, especially considering that I'm planning on decreasing my expenses. I plan on cooking more and travelling slower. My food and massage expenses make up more than half my budget. I could live on under 10/yr easily but it would cut qol some (bored more).

I'd love more feedback on the financial and investing side rather than the lifestyle differences that may emerge later.
I think this post provided enough background here for me to comment more fully --

I'd say your plan is absolutely fine. I think one of the biggest things people are forgetting is that you are only 25. If after 2/3/4 years of traveling and living this sort of life you want something else, you can go back to the work force and earn a living. This is clearly something you have a need to try so do it. None of us can know the future so its silly for us to try and make projections about a scenario with these dynamics (ultra long time frame, ultra low cost freestyle and tight coverage) Worst case you come back to the work force in several years having tried out something most of us never get the chance to do. And while you will be behind a little on experience and skills, you will have valuable worldly experience. Again I think your youth is a bonus in this case. Perhaps down the road this narrative changes (if you try to go back to work at 40 if things don't work out) but for now I think you should take the shot in the short term. You may even find something that you love to do during your time off that will lead to meaningful labor. financially I think the only thing that I would question is the 401k withdrawal aspect -- how much of your funds are tied up there, because there could be some issues drawing that early. If so you could adjust what you have in each bucket to account for this -- perhaps leaving the 401k as a long term vehicle that you don't touch.

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Watty
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Watty » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:39 pm

Just FYI,

In case you didn't realize it your Social Security amount is based on your inflation adjusted highest 35 years of earnings. Even though you qualify for it with only ten years of earning you might only get a couple of hundred dollars a month so I would not let it be a factor into your decisions.

Working long enough to qualify for Medicare would likely be worth doing though even if you currently have health insurance in your country. There is no telling what that insurance will be like in 50 years and if it will cover some expensive treatment. Keeping the options open to fly back to the US for some expensive cancer medical treatment would be good to have if you are close to qualifying for Medicare anyway.

You also need to be cautious about planning for having low expenses in retirement. Often people actually want to do something when they are retired and the costs for things like even budget travel can add up.

financeidiot
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by financeidiot » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:44 pm

I think you're close to answering your own question about the Wellesley funds. If you see domestic vs. international as a wash, then a 50/50 split between domestic and international and your suggested 1/4 allocation to each fund (or whatever distribution you need to hit your 70/30 equity/bond split using your knowledge of what's in those funds) should meet your goals.

Based on your username, plan, and lifestyle, I'm guessing you're in the Tim Ferriss/Rolf Potts crowd. The Mad Fientist is a good blog to check out if you have not yet. Specifically, his article on "How to Access Retirement Funds Early (https://www.madfientist.com/how-to-acce ... nds-early/)." If you know you're going to have low expenses and low income, you can start building a Roth Conversion Ladder to convert your 401k to a Roth IRA and have access to the funds converted within 5 years.

Slowtraveler
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Slowtraveler » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:53 pm

So far, I have gotten more lifestyle and early retirement warnings. I can't imagine never earning some form of income again. Long term budget travel is extremely teach and I think teaching English or Spanish or something else where I learn a lot would be fun once I've gotten a few more high earnings years down.

Is it safe to assume it is a wash between having half Wellesley vs a quarter Domestic and a quarter Global Wellesley for my bonds? As in, both are likely to work out in my case? I'm honestly more concerned about relying on such a new fund than any other aspect of it, also that I can't see the complete portfolio holdings yet.

My 401k could all be converted to Roth in the 0% bracket (up to standard deduction) with enough years of earned income below the FEIE.

Long term budget travel is extremely cheap. Short term budget travel is far more expensive. Month long rentals are already cheap enough to be nearly negligible (less than half the cost of unsubsidized health insurance in the states.) Buses/trains to new countries are in the $10-50 range. I've found health care abroad to be both higher quality and cheaper than even the premiums on health insurance in the states.

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Watty
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Watty » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:17 pm

One more thought. "Domestic" in this context means US, not the the country you will be living in. If you are not planning on returning to the US then I would question the logic of overweighting US stocks. For your stocks buying a global fund that includes a proportional share of US stocks might make more sense.

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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Thesaints » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:54 pm

Why retire at age 25, only to "survive" with 25k/year, instead of working a few more years and retire to a more comfortable lifestyle ?
I'm pretty sure everyone on BH would be able to retire right now if only they moved to Somalia, yet it would not be an advisable solution.

chicagoan23
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by chicagoan23 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:26 pm

Slowtraveler wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:53 pm
So far, I have gotten more lifestyle and early retirement warnings.
That's because the lifestyle and early retirement warnings are far more relevant to the success of your plan than the choice of an active fund or a split of index funds, which will only marginally impact your results and over such a long period of time is impossible to predict anyway.

You are expecting a relatively small amount of money to last an exceptionally long amount time, due to just-above-poverty-level annual expenses that you expect will never change. If you've already got that figured out, I wouldn't worry about a few basis points on expense ratios or the split between US and global fixed income.

Sure, 70/30 might work for the next 75 years of consistent distributions from your portfolio, and an all-US bonds or half-US, half-global split may work out just fine. Any of the proposals you've mentioned are just as likely to give you the same result, assuming you've got the big questions right.

crake
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by crake » Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:42 pm

Thesaints wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:54 pm
Why retire at age 25, only to "survive" with 25k/year, instead of working a few more years and retire to a more comfortable lifestyle ?
I'm pretty sure everyone on BH would be able to retire right now if only they moved to Somalia, yet it would not be an advisable solution.
$1M isn’t nearly enough to just stop earning money forever, but it’s a good start towards financial independence.
The average lifetime earnings for someone in the US with a bachelors degree is 1.8 million, an associates degree is 1.1 million, and a high school degree is .9 million. That is before tax. http://www.incontext.indiana.edu/2009/m ... ticle1.asp

The global median household income is only about 10,000 dollars. http://news.gallup.com/poll/166211/worl ... e-000.aspx

According to http://www.globalrichlist.com/ an annual income of 25,000 dollars makes you one of the top 2% richest individuals in the world by income.

People want different things out of their life which is fine but the above two quotes are blatantly false. 98% of the world would proves them wrong. Good for the OP saving so much at a young age and living the life they want to live.

To answer the questions in the original post, your AA and fund choices sound fine. The only caution I would have is to put the balanced funds into your 401k to avoid paying excess taxes on the bond income. I personally invest only in index funds and find the the three fund portfolio more to my liking.

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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Thesaints » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:05 pm

crake wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:42 pm
According to http://www.globalrichlist.com/ an annual income of 25,000 dollars makes you one of the top 2% richest individuals in the world by income.
With a $1,000 a month one is king in South Sudan, but I don't want to live in South Sudan. Being able to choose, I'll work a few more years and be a knight in San Francisco.

The overall issue is foregoing decades of potential earnings, only to settle for a much leaner lifestyle. Of course, it is always possible that one does enjoy the leaner lifestyle the best. After all there are people who like sleeping on a nailbed, or being flogged and abused, but the OP would better make sure he knows what he is giving up.

quantAndHold
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by quantAndHold » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:41 pm

crake wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:42 pm
Thesaints wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:54 pm
Why retire at age 25, only to "survive" with 25k/year, instead of working a few more years and retire to a more comfortable lifestyle ?
I'm pretty sure everyone on BH would be able to retire right now if only they moved to Somalia, yet it would not be an advisable solution.
$1M isn’t nearly enough to just stop earning money forever, but it’s a good start towards financial independence.
The average lifetime earnings for someone in the US with a bachelors degree is 1.8 million, an associates degree is 1.1 million, and a high school degree is .9 million. That is before tax. http://www.incontext.indiana.edu/2009/m ... ticle1.asp

The global median household income is only about 10,000 dollars. http://news.gallup.com/poll/166211/worl ... e-000.aspx

According to http://www.globalrichlist.com/ an annual income of 25,000 dollars makes you one of the top 2% richest individuals in the world by income.
The problem with using mean and median here is that the stats are dragged down by the masses of people, both in the US and around the world, who are living in ways that OP wouldn't find acceptable.

The other problem is that he needs to factor in 70 years of uncertainty. At the very least, he'll probably get married and have kids, which both cost money. He may, at some point, be forced to repatriate, in which case $25k/year won't pay for much. 70 years is also plenty of time for wealth destroying things to happen like wars, inflation, natural disasters, health disasters, and other disasters that I can't even think of. If most things go right, he'll be just fine, but he doesn't have much room for things to go wrong.

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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Money Market » Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:54 pm

Careful, if you take the FEIE and all your income is excluded, you cannot contribute to a Roth IRA.

crake
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Joined: Thu Mar 14, 2013 2:12 pm

Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by crake » Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:01 pm

quantAndHold wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 3:41 pm
crake wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 2:42 pm
Thesaints wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:54 pm
Why retire at age 25, only to "survive" with 25k/year, instead of working a few more years and retire to a more comfortable lifestyle ?
I'm pretty sure everyone on BH would be able to retire right now if only they moved to Somalia, yet it would not be an advisable solution.
$1M isn’t nearly enough to just stop earning money forever, but it’s a good start towards financial independence.
The average lifetime earnings for someone in the US with a bachelors degree is 1.8 million, an associates degree is 1.1 million, and a high school degree is .9 million. That is before tax. http://www.incontext.indiana.edu/2009/m ... ticle1.asp

The global median household income is only about 10,000 dollars. http://news.gallup.com/poll/166211/worl ... e-000.aspx

According to http://www.globalrichlist.com/ an annual income of 25,000 dollars makes you one of the top 2% richest individuals in the world by income.
The problem with using mean and median here is that the stats are dragged down by the masses of people, both in the US and around the world, who are living in ways that OP wouldn't find acceptable.

The other problem is that he needs to factor in 70 years of uncertainty. At the very least, he'll probably get married and have kids, which both cost money. He may, at some point, be forced to repatriate, in which case $25k/year won't pay for much. 70 years is also plenty of time for wealth destroying things to happen like wars, inflation, natural disasters, health disasters, and other disasters that I can't even think of. If most things go right, he'll be just fine, but he doesn't have much room for things to go wrong.
I would agree with you about using means and medians here if the numbers weren't so extreme. $1,000,000 is more than the vast majority of Americans will see at any point in their life. According to some google searches only about 4% of US households, not individuals, have a wealth of $1,000,000. It is hard for me to understand how the phrase "a good start" can be used to describe one of the top 4% richest people in the US and one of the top .5% richest people in the world. I am not suggesting you are trying to be but it comes off as being a little insulting to the majority of people who will never come close to seeing the amount of money that the OP has.

The logic of working another year or two to build up a safety margin never ends. Sure, if OP worked another year or two they could possibly spend 30-40k per year safely. However, another year or two would add another 10-15k of annual spending. My desired yearly spending is personally higher than 25k but I don't begrudge the OP for being happy at the number or suggest they could only survive at the spending level in Somalia.

Strummer
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Strummer » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:19 pm

If the OP would indulge one question: Where do you live now?

Thanks,
Strummer

Thesaints
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Thesaints » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:25 pm

crake wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 5:01 pm
The logic of working another year or two to build up a safety margin never ends. Sure, if OP worked another year or two they could possibly spend 30-40k per year safely. However, another year or two would add another 10-15k of annual spending. My desired yearly spending is personally higher than 25k but I don't begrudge the OP for being happy at the number or suggest they could only survive at the spending level in Somalia.
Very early retirees are a different beast entirely. Whereas the proverbial 65yo retiree can indeed increase his/her annual spending by working a little longer at the pace of many thousands per year for every extra year worked, our 25yo retiree would only see a minuscule increase.

Goal33
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early

Post by Goal33 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:31 pm

hafjell wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:00 am
In five years you will (likely) be a completely different person with completely different concerns.
Stay the course. Sock money away. Revisit in five years if you don't have a spouse and kids who help you decide to keep working.
+1. My expenses more than doubled from 23 to 26 doubled... I didn't expect that but it happens your significant other doesn't want to move into your 300sqft studio.
A man with one watch always knows what time it is; a man with two watches is never sure.

Slowtraveler
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Slowtraveler » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:12 am

I am leaning strongly towards the 25% into each.

I am seriously surprised at the pessimism on a 7 figure sum. I could work 5 more years (to 35) and reach 2M but that seems overkill and I'm not sure my work situation will last so long.

I live in SE Asia. You could live like a king here for 1k/month. No need to go to war torn countries for saving money. 100/month food, same housing, same transport (includes border runs) and you have your basics covered at 300/month. The rest is luxury.

You couldn't pay me enough to live in SF. I lived near there for most of my life, it's nicer here if you ask me.

While I don't care for fancy things, I am much happier here than in the states and plan on staying in relatively consistent col areas.

hafjell
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by hafjell » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:06 am

Slowtraveler wrote:
Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:12 am
I am seriously surprised at the pessimism on a 7 figure sum. I could work 5 more years (to 35) and reach 2M but that seems overkill and I'm not sure my work situation will last so long.

I live in SE Asia. You could live like a king here for 1k/month. No need to go to war torn countries for saving money. 100/month food, same housing, same transport (includes border runs) and you have your basics covered at 300/month. The rest is luxury.
This works great if you assume SE Asia will be stable politically and environmentally for the next 60 years, and the CoL equation doesn't change. Six decades is a long time for something bad to happen.
I've run into you on the beaches of south west India and Mexico, on overnight trains from Vienna to iStanbul, in cafes and bars off the suq in Cairo, Amman and Damascus, on verandas overlooking the mountains of Cyprus. When the tab came, sometimes you quickly reached for it, shooing my hand hand away, and slid an AmEx gold card to the waiter. Other times you shrugged, opened an empty wallet as proof while I at 18, 20, 23, 25 and older paid for your food and drinks. If you're going to paint yourself into a corner, make sure you're the former.
In other words, are you being penny wise and pound foolish? Good luck. Travel is the best. I've often thought, he who lives now where others yearn to retire to, wins. So far, happy winning.

Da5id
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Da5id » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:16 am

Watty wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:39 pm
Just FYI,

In case you didn't realize it your Social Security amount is based on your inflation adjusted highest 35 years of earnings. Even though you qualify for it with only ten years of earning you might only get a couple of hundred dollars a month so I would not let it be a factor into your decisions.

Working long enough to qualify for Medicare would likely be worth doing though even if you currently have health insurance in your country. There is no telling what that insurance will be like in 50 years and if it will cover some expensive treatment. Keeping the options open to fly back to the US for some expensive cancer medical treatment would be good to have if you are close to qualifying for Medicare anyway.
I think projecting current government programs like SS and Medicare 40-70 years into the future is a fool's errand. The farther in the future you project the greater the chance that they will change in a material way (who knows how).

To OP, I'd say accumulate your assets and in 5 years see how you feel. Your 70/30 split sounds fine, and how you get there isn't all that key as long as costs are low. I'd totally go with index funds myself rather than using Wellesley for part, as despite its past successes I don't know why to assume it will continue to outperform. But YMMV.

Slowtraveler
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Slowtraveler » Thu Jan 11, 2018 9:26 am

As poetic as that was, I don't get how I'm being penny wise, pound foolish. Most of the expats in my age range are on an <5 year trip, travelling until they run out of money or working for barely enough to survive as they go digital nomad around the world. Most aren't working full time, taking full advantage of the FEIE, 401k, and other tax benefits available, and aiming to actually build a 7 figure portfolio. 7 figures is more than enough for the mustachians and ERE folks to live indefinitely in the states while raising a family so I think my base is covered there. Please tell me what I'm missing there.

I've seen my parents live the spendy life in Silicon Valley for most of my life and to be frank, I got bored of it early. The only reason I eat out so much here is that the food is so new to me and ridiculously delicious. I mean $3 for a fried fish? I've seen worse fish sold for $100 on a cruise in Europe. Not to say Europe doesn't have some bargains for living in the south and east. Latin America also sounds fun if I get bored of Thailand and it includes a language I already know and lots of family so a huge plus.

I plan on shifting between the 3 low col regions mentioned as/if I get bored of areas so there's a lot of flexibility in regards to geography.

I'll definitely feel it out, work may continue but I'm likely to stop for a while and then do some low income yet enjoyable endeavors.

It seems some are saying a Wellesley-Total Bond- US-International would be better than just using half in between the 2 Wellesleys.

hexagon
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by hexagon » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:15 am

Slowtraveler wrote:
Wed Jan 10, 2018 10:35 am

1. Right now I am at a 1/3 split between International, US, and Wellesley but I want to move towards a more conservative split. Would it be wrong or foolish to move towards a 1/4 each split between US, International, Wellesley, and Global Wellesley?

2. Or would it be better to have half in domestic Wellesley as it is more established then a quarter each into International and US?
1. Probably a good idea. Since both Wellesleys have a 1/3 bond - 2/3 equity goal, you would be moving from (roughly) a 78/22 to 67/33 split which certainly makes sense given that you will start withdrawing funds in 5 years. With such a long time horizon, I personally would not choose to go any more conservative but your low withdrawal rate does make it likely that things will work out for most any asset allocation between 80/20 and 20/80.

2. As both Wellesley and Global Wellesley are managed by Wellington group, I would be less concerned with the lack of historical performance for Global W. The main issue for me would be how much international exposure you want. Since GW is roughly half north america and half international, going the 1/2 W option puts you at 25% international, while the 1/4 W, 1/4 GW option puts you at around 38% international

2m2037
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by 2m2037 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 10:27 am

Subscribing to this thread. I've always wanted to live in Bangkok and am interested in finding out more about living expenses and how the OP is planning on swinging it.

halfnine
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by halfnine » Thu Jan 11, 2018 5:46 pm

Slowtraveler wrote: ....I've been working since I was 15 so I'll have more than 10 years necessary for social security....
Based on high income and work history I see little issue here. You will probably be past the first bend point where you get the most bang for you buck. I wouldn't be surprised if you would get 50-60% of the maximum payout. And that is good enough longevity insurance for you.
Slowtraveler wrote: ....I can live where I am as long as I move every 3 months or get a longer term visa. Flights are not particularly expensive (under 2k/yr if they are all distant international, 400/yr if local international-not counting bonus miles which makes it essentially free), trains or buses for border runs are even less so. A business Visa is the best solution for long term travel where I am. I can't imagine going back to the States. I'm more likely to live with family in low col countries than going back there but living independently is far nicer to me....
I see few problems on 25K/yr if you remain single. But possible complications if you get married to someone of a different nationality and even more potential issues if you have children. If that is the path you are taking, you really need permanent residency. And the whole family does. Without permanent residency you have limited or no rights in the country you reside. And that is fine when you are single, flexible and have no problems moving to another country but an absolute PIA when it is more then just you. Plus you will want to consider where you want your kids raised and educated and what opportunities will be available for them when they are older.
Slowtraveler wrote:...My 401k could all be converted to Roth in the 0% bracket (up to standard deduction) with enough years of earned income below the FEIE.....
I don't believe conversions will be excluded by the FEIE. So, probably not. At least not in perpetuity. Dividends and short term capital gains in your taxable will take up some of the 0% bracket. Plus, the return on your IRA funds may outpace your conversion amounts as well. So in order to completely convert your IRA to a ROTH prior to social security or RMDs you will probably have to convert some beyond the 0% bracket every year.

Speaking of which, once you no longer have foreign earned income you may be better off not claiming the FEIE. This should allow you access to the 12% band and 0% on LTCG. But, it is not a decision to take lightly as I don't believe you can switch back and forth without a few year hiatus.
Slowtraveler wrote:...So far, I have gotten more lifestyle and early retirement warnings...
Oh, yeah. I think 2.5% is fine. 70/30 also fine. For equities I'd be more inclined to have it at global weights. As for fixed income, I'd split it amongst different currencies. Under current conditions the US portion in bonds and the non-US in savings accounts and short term CDs.

Slowtraveler
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Slowtraveler » Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:16 am

I've done some math and it looks like the portfolios put me at:
1/4 W, 1/4 GW, 1/4 U, 1/4 I:
I Stocks U Stocks Bonds
0.3125 0.3875 0.3

1/2 W, 1/2 U, 1/2 I:
I Stocks U Stocks Bonds
0.275 0.425 0.3

And my current:
1/3 W, 1/3 U, 1/3 I:
I Stocks U Stocks Bonds
0.349965 0.449955 0.19998

Here is the chart I used to create it:
I U W GW
Thirds 0.3333 0.3333 0.3333
Quarters 0.25 0.25 0.25 0.25
Half 0.25 0.25 0.5

I Stocks 1 0.05 0.2
U Stocks 1 0.35 0.2
Bonds 0.6 0.6

The quarter looks the most like the match for me considering my international expenses. 70/30 also feels much better than my current 80/20.

@Halfnine, thanks for the more detailed analysis.
Conversions are not excluded by the FEIE so that is why I said up to the standard deduction is at the 0 tax rate.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/interna ... -exclusion
I believe once I revoke, I cannot reclaim it within 5 years so make sure I stop working. Also, if I claim the FEIE, I cannot contribute to an IRA until I have used all of my FEIE so I have to either keep a high income (but not too high or I'll have to do a backdoor trad->roth IRA) or earn some dollars in the states (unlikely).

What do you mean by split my fixed income among different currencies? From my knowledge, it is a pain to open international savings accounts/CDs due to reporting requirements. I know Global Wellesley has some of its bonds as internationals based on the prospectus but the detailed holdings are as of yet, unavailable.

Permanent residency is of varying difficulties to acquire but something I will have to think about if/when I start a family. Renewing Visa every 3-12 months sounds like a pia if it's permanent and I just want to stay near home. I currently love Thailand but that may change. I think this is a bridge I will have to cross once I get to the point of knowing with more certainty where I want to stay long term.

@2m2037
What are you interested about in Bangkok?
I tend to either use Agoda or Airbnb, whichever is cheaper, to book 3-5 nights somewhere and walk around to find cheap month-month rentals. Finding a small central studio for $100-200 is relatively easy with a few days of walking around, plus, walking the area helps you feel out whether you like it or not, is it walkable, where are groceries, water, washing machines, transportation hubs, restaurants, etc.

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Ethelred
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Ethelred » Fri Jan 12, 2018 9:48 am

I'm not surprised by some of the replies here. In general, Bogleheads is a fairly financially conservative forum, and many have no experience of what you're trying.

In terms of your asset allocation and fund choices, I don't see a big problem with any of your proposals. Personally, if I was retiring at or close to 30, I'd want to have my asset allocation at about 80% stock, since it's got to last 50 or even 60 years. But 70% shouldn't behave that differently.

And, if my target was about 70% stocks, I was based internationally, happy to invest in active funds at Vanguard, and wanted to keep my investments simple, I'd stick all of it in Global Wellington. A bias towards US stocks while living in Thailand makes no sense to me.
https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/ ... irect=true

That said, I would also caution that while I think your plan is fine for the short and medium term, you potentially need to plan for sixty years in the future. That is long enough for major world changes: I can provide two examples, both an extrapolation of current trends: one, growing worldwide nationalism forces you out of SE Asia and elsewhere, or two, the cost of living rises to be comparable to the US. And actually, with your conservative withdrawal rate, I think you are as prepared as you can be, but you need to remember that extremely early retirement means you're planning for a much longer timescale than others.

2m2037
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by 2m2037 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 11:58 am

Slowtraveler wrote:
Fri Jan 12, 2018 3:16 am
I've done some math and it looks like the portfolios put me at:
1/4 W, 1/4 GW, 1/4 U, 1/4 I:
I Stocks U Stocks Bonds
0.3125 0.3875 0.3

1/2 W, 1/2 U, 1/2 I:
I Stocks U Stocks Bonds
0.275 0.425 0.3

And my current:
1/3 W, 1/3 U, 1/3 I:
I Stocks U Stocks Bonds
0.349965 0.449955 0.19998

Here is the chart I used to create it:
I U W GW
Thirds 0.3333 0.3333 0.3333
Quarters 0.25 0.25 0.25 0.25
Half 0.25 0.25 0.5

I Stocks 1 0.05 0.2
U Stocks 1 0.35 0.2
Bonds 0.6 0.6

The quarter looks the most like the match for me considering my international expenses. 70/30 also feels much better than my current 80/20.

@Halfnine, thanks for the more detailed analysis.
Conversions are not excluded by the FEIE so that is why I said up to the standard deduction is at the 0 tax rate.

https://www.irs.gov/individuals/interna ... -exclusion
I believe once I revoke, I cannot reclaim it within 5 years so make sure I stop working. Also, if I claim the FEIE, I cannot contribute to an IRA until I have used all of my FEIE so I have to either keep a high income (but not too high or I'll have to do a backdoor trad->roth IRA) or earn some dollars in the states (unlikely).

What do you mean by split my fixed income among different currencies? From my knowledge, it is a pain to open international savings accounts/CDs due to reporting requirements. I know Global Wellesley has some of its bonds as internationals based on the prospectus but the detailed holdings are as of yet, unavailable.

Permanent residency is of varying difficulties to acquire but something I will have to think about if/when I start a family. Renewing Visa every 3-12 months sounds like a pia if it's permanent and I just want to stay near home. I currently love Thailand but that may change. I think this is a bridge I will have to cross once I get to the point of knowing with more certainty where I want to stay long term.

@2m2037
What are you interested about in Bangkok?
I tend to either use Agoda or Airbnb, whichever is cheaper, to book 3-5 nights somewhere and walk around to find cheap month-month rentals. Finding a small central studio for $100-200 is relatively easy with a few days of walking around, plus, walking the area helps you feel out whether you like it or not, is it walkable, where are groceries, water, washing machines, transportation hubs, restaurants, etc.
I've traveled there a few times when I was around your age but never got the nerve to set up life there (I'm 30 now). The LCOL lifestyle and an intriguing culture is what appeals most. Food is a close second; love the street fried chicken wings! I tried getting a work secondment to BKK back then but the numbers didn't work out.

Slowtraveler
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Slowtraveler » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:48 pm

@Ethelred
Thanks for the advice. I often get excited by Wellington but having such a large financial sector focus scares me. It's the same thing with small cap value. I see too much risk in having so much sector focus but Global/Wellesley doesn't have the same financial sector focus which I find more comforting. Interesting though, you've opened me up to the possibility of using .25 International, .25 US, .5 Global Wellesley. It allows me to use a heavier international allocation and keep my index funds. I feel more comfortable with a mix of active and passive than using either or exclusively.

I actually didn't realize the worldwide nationalism trend was really a thing. I thought that was more kept to small, isolated subsectors in places like rural America. In my experience, I have felt I am treated better as a foreigner in every country I've been to (except Greece but that's not somewhere I plan on returning and ethnocentrism is a well known part of the culture.) Thailand, Mexico, Turkey, and more have all felt more fun because people welcome me into their lives happily when they find someone curious about the local culture.

On the rising cost, I can't see it happening. It's cheaper here than rural America or even Latin America. If that happens, the water quality will likely make a massive shift in quality, the entire lifestyle here would make a big change, it wouldn't feel like Thailand any more. It would be a long trend and I think cost of living would rise proportionally in place like USA as AI simultaneously helped increase quality of life there. Many parts of Spain and Italy are still very low col. Africa may be more hospitable in that situation and become the new SE Asia.

All that said, thanks for helping me see what others are warning about more clearly. I felt oblivious to these 2 possibilities previously but now see that they are indeed, possible.

@2m2037
Same here, there is something fascinating about the culture. Bangkok was a bit fast paced for me so I settled in the second largest city here. I'll likely head to Pattaya after here. I currently oscillate between the Chiang Mai and Issan provinces. Issan is likely too slow paced for most here and it's more fun if you are welcomed in by someone's family there.

Those chicken wings are something I thought was American but have loved since coming here. Nothing like spending 20 baht (60 something ¢) on some hot, freshly made chicken wings.

sfnerd
Posts: 118
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by sfnerd » Sat Jan 13, 2018 8:51 am

Good to know what you want and to go after it. Your plan will most likely work just fine. I live (and work) in Bangkok, and you can definitely live cheaply in Thailand. The lifestyle quickly approaches the cost of the west if you want a western lifestyle, of course. I'm at a bar drinking a $15 cocktail right now, so you can definitely spend money.

The biggest wrinkle is definitely "globalism". As these emerging markets grow, you may see cost of living increase, especially in dollar terms. The baht has moved about 10% against the dollar in just a year. Now, this could go the other way eventually, but it's a risk.

Don't let it discourage you of course, but be aware and be flexible. Also, a lot of street food is bad for your health, so find the healthier cheap options. If you're in Chiang Mai this is probably easy, it's a good town for healthy eating.

Sawatdee khrap!

UpperNwGuy
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by UpperNwGuy » Sat Jan 13, 2018 10:59 am

Even after reading the entire thread, I still don't understand why OP wants to invest in Wellesley instead of broad index funds.

Slowtraveler
Posts: 29
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Slowtraveler » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:25 pm

@UpperNWGuy
I am, I use equity indexes for half my portfolio.

I feel more comfortable with Wellesley for my conservative allocation after looking at its detailed holdings. It has had lower volatility than its benchmark and had strong returns. I suspect it will continue this outperformance with low volatility. I feel comfortable with its stock holdings and I believe this comfort will help me stay the course more than with total bond market.

@SFNerd
I agree that prices will likely rise but I believe my own choices are the biggest factors. I spent 300baht on quesadillas and a lemon cheesecake today. I could have spent 50 baht on 2 bowls of noodles with a desert of coconut milk and jelly.

When I first came to Thailand 5 years ago, I saw many massages for 150 baht so the choice is still there. I think the high population density has kept labor costs low for a while. Today, I could have a massage with elderly ladies for 120 baht at a temple, a strong middle aged man for 150 baht, or a girl in her 20's who massages less well than the other choices for 200 baht. I'm happier now in my 3000 baht apartment than when I first came and lived in a 10k baht apartment. It's always been walkable/central, close to cheap healthcare, food, everything I need. I spend more than living with family in Silicon Valley but the quality of life is multiples higher for me here.

I still have too much room to cut down on food expenses. Getting a place with a kitchen will likely save money and health, I'm just still lazy here if I'm honest. The food is too delicious to pass up still. How long have you been in Thailand?

staythecourse
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by staythecourse » Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:45 pm

I know you didn't ask, but a 25 year old who lives alone and wants to retire with such little money in their name makes me question your mental health. Is there other stuff going on? I think the first thing is to address whatever is your real problems. Trust me, working up to 25 years old is not it. Maybe a mental health professional could help? Being simple is not the same as being anhedonic.

Good luck.
"The stock market [fluctuation], therefore, is noise. A giant distraction from the business of investing.” | -Jack Bogle

richyg12
Posts: 34
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by richyg12 » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:22 pm

The title states "25 year old retiring extremely early" and in the next statement "I can't imagine never earning some form of income again."

FFS Sh*t or get off the pot.

Take a year off travel and then decide what to do. Doss about like the hippies in the 60's in India or any piss about in Chang Mai or Pattaya or play/work/travel in a cheaper country afterwards , farm work in Australia , kibbutz in Israel, or alternatively "find yourself" doing something useful charity wise or other.

50% or 25 years old that aren't married think about this.

This is not the question for an internet forum it is a humble brag.
Last edited by richyg12 on Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Archimedes
Posts: 132
Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2017 11:27 am

Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by Archimedes » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:23 pm

staythecourse wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:45 pm
I know you didn't ask, but a 25 year old who lives alone and wants to retire with such little money in their name makes me question your mental health. Is there other stuff going on? I think the first thing is to address whatever is your real problems. Trust me, working up to 25 years old is not it. Maybe a mental health professional could help? Being simple is not the same as being anhedonic.

Good luck.
You comment that the desire to live this alternate lifestyle makes you question the OP’s mental health. Perhaps you have not experienced the nomadic lifestyle or wanderlust in your own youth? Perhaps you haven’t experienced a fascination with other cultures and living circumstances in your lifetime?

The questions asked make total sense to me, and the desire to do something completely different is fascinating and in no way seems unhealthy. The OP is quite young. Desires and dreams change over the decades. Who knows how the OP will feel in another 10 years, but he is making plans based on current circumstances and it all seems quite reasonable.

drk
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Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by drk » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:38 pm

staythecourse wrote:
Sat Jan 13, 2018 12:45 pm
I know you didn't ask, but a 25 year old who lives alone and wants to retire with such little money in their name makes me question your mental health. Is there other stuff going on? I think the first thing is to address whatever is your real problems. Trust me, working up to 25 years old is not it. Maybe a mental health professional could help? Being simple is not the same as being anhedonic.

Good luck.
Are you a psychologist or psychiatrist with experience in assessment and diagnosis based on no contact with a subject? If not, please refrain from this kind of comment.

drk
Posts: 865
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:33 pm
Location: Seattle

Re: 25 Year Old Retiring Extremely Early-Domestic Wellesley or Half Global, Half Domestic Wellesley Better for my Bonds?

Post by drk » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:41 pm

OP, you may want to check out the Mr. Money Mustache forums for more useful responses. There will be many more people with experiences relevant to your situation and goals.

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