Brokerage and DEGIRO ETFs - MiFID II

For investors outside the US. Personal investments, personal finance, investing news and theory.
Sister forums: Canada, Spain (en español)
---------------
Post Reply
Topic Author
wec
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:05 am

Brokerage and DEGIRO ETFs - MiFID II

Post by wec » Mon Jan 08, 2018 4:18 pm

Hello guys,

When I had almost everything prepared to start investing, the MiFID II law came out and closed all the good ETFs on Degiro for me.
Now, I can't find any good alternative. I am from Portugal which also makes it more difficult.

I have these restraints:

1- Only have 1k to start.
2- Need ETFs domiciled on Ireland or Luxemburg because of taxes.
3- Need Accumulating ETFs because of taxes.
4- I am from Portugal.

I don't know how much time for ETFs to be available on Degiro so if you know any brokerage firm that could serve me as an alternative I would be much appreciated.

On degiro I have these for no comission on acquisition as the only options:

- db x-trackers MSCI EMERGING MARKETS INDEX UCITS ETF Share Class: 1C (ISIN: LU0292107645), (WKN: DBX1EM), (Currency: USD) (Acc)
ER:0.49%

- db x-trackers SHORTDAX DAILY UCITS ETF Share Class: 1C (ISIN: LU0292106241), (WKN: DBX1DS), (Currency: EUR) (Acc)
ER:0.40%

If these ETFs with no comission are worth it, I will then explore others which are not.

silverex
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:05 pm
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania

Re: Brokerage and DEGIRO ETFs - MiFID II

Post by silverex » Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:09 pm

I think they only closed non-European ETFs that don’t have proper documentation. General recommendation would be to use European brokers (of which Degiro seems to be one of the cheapest, just make sure you use Custody) account, and to buy European ETFs (having UCITS in their name) because of tax reasons.

I recommend you browse and choose from commision-charging ETF list. Emerging Markets represents just a very small part of world stocks, and the other one is “short”, designed for intra-day speculation.

Topic Author
wec
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:05 am

Re: Brokerage and DEGIRO ETFs - MiFID II

Post by wec » Mon Jan 08, 2018 6:07 pm

silverex wrote:
Mon Jan 08, 2018 5:09 pm
I think they only closed non-European ETFs that don’t have proper documentation. General recommendation would be to use European brokers (of which Degiro seems to be one of the cheapest, just make sure you use Custody) account, and to buy European ETFs (having UCITS in their name) because of tax reasons.

I recommend you browse and choose from commision-charging ETF list. Emerging Markets represents just a very small part of world stocks, and the other one is “short”, designed for intra-day speculation.
I pay 2eur + 0.02% for each transaction I think.

This is the only one worth it. Others distribute dividends...

db x-trackers MSCI WORLD INDEX UCITS ETF Share Class: 1C (ISIN: LU0274208692), (WKN: DBX1MW), (Currency: USD) (Acc) ER: 0.45%
Have this on on market XETRA, OMX Stockholm, Borsa Italiana and Lodon... Not sure if that matters.

silverex
Posts: 62
Joined: Sun Jan 07, 2018 1:05 pm
Location: Vilnius, Lithuania

Re: Brokerage and DEGIRO ETFs - MiFID II

Post by silverex » Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:09 pm

That one looks very expensive at 0.45%. A very similar one is just 0.19%:
IE00BJ0KDQ92 db x-trackers MSCI World Index UCITS ETF (DR) 1C
You could add a Eurobond index at 0.15%:
LU0290355717 db x-trackers Eurozone Government Bond UCITS ETF (DR) 1C
You haven’t stated your goals for this investment, but that would make a good passive portfolio for a European for retirement, assuming your main expenses would be in euros.

For markets, keep in mind that Degiro charges a yearly fee or out-of-home market trades/positions.

If you want to save regularly in smaller amounts, you could look into a robo-advisor service that allows building a passive portfolio and that operates in Portugal, like ETFmatic, robo-advisors usually don’t take trading comissions.

Topic Author
wec
Posts: 35
Joined: Fri Dec 29, 2017 7:05 am

Re: Brokerage and DEGIRO ETFs - MiFID II

Post by wec » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:24 pm

silverex wrote:
Tue Jan 09, 2018 4:09 pm
That one looks very expensive at 0.45%. A very similar one is just 0.19%:
IE00BJ0KDQ92 db x-trackers MSCI World Index UCITS ETF (DR) 1C
You could add a Eurobond index at 0.15%:
LU0290355717 db x-trackers Eurozone Government Bond UCITS ETF (DR) 1C
You haven’t stated your goals for this investment, but that would make a good passive portfolio for a European for retirement, assuming your main expenses would be in euros.

For markets, keep in mind that Degiro charges a yearly fee or out-of-home market trades/positions.

If you want to save regularly in smaller amounts, you could look into a robo-advisor service that allows building a passive portfolio and that operates in Portugal, like ETFmatic, robo-advisors usually don’t take trading comissions.
wow. Interesting information. Never heard of ETFmatic. I think these are their costs

--------------------------------------

ETFmatic charges an annual fee of 0.48% of your assets under management of below GBP/USD/EUR 25,000.
Portfolios of GBP/USD/EUR 25,000 and above will be charged an annual fee of 0.29%.
We offer a 0% management fee for portfolios of children under the age of 18.
This fee includes:

Design and execution of your investment strategy
24/7 reporting and administration
Brokerage fees
Custody fees
VAT
It doesn't include:

All fees charged by the banks for transfers to your ETFmatic account
Total Expense Ratio already priced by the ETF issuers into the assets we buy for your portfolio (0.1 - 0.15% for most ETFmatic portfolios)

---------------------------------------

I have only 2k to invest and I will provide a couple of hundred eurs each month. I am thinking again about DEGIRO now... My fees with ETFmatic are 0.58% - 0.63%

DEGIRO:
yes you are right, I didn't see that ETF. Thank you!

db x-trackers MSCI World Index UCITS ETF (DR) 1C -----> 0.19% + 2eur + 0.02% (each order I think)
db x-trackers Eurozone Government Bond UCITS ETF (DR) 1C -----> 0.15% + 2eur + 0.02% (each order I think)
+ yearly fee ? I didn't know this and didn't find anything on Degiro. I also am not sure how they proceed if I have EUR and I am buying USD assets.

So, with this, ETFmatic? Are they for real?

My goal: Invest long-term 30-40 years with each month savings (around 200-300eur each month).

You have been amazing silverex!

herpfinance
Posts: 222
Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 4:52 pm
Location: Denmark

Re: Brokerage and DEGIRO ETFs - MiFID II

Post by herpfinance » Thu Jan 18, 2018 2:21 pm

I have an account at DEGIRO and have been investing with them for a couple of years. If you have any questions, send me a PM and I'll be happy to elaborate in this thread.
"The intelligent investor is a realist who sells to optimists and buys from pessimists" - Benjamin Graham

alexfoo39
Posts: 187
Joined: Sun Jan 06, 2019 2:00 am

Re: Brokerage and DEGIRO ETFs - MiFID II

Post by alexfoo39 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:47 am

Hi, want to ask question on Degiro ...

i saw that from Degiro offered 'free' ETF list, there are index fund for SP500, world index etc....

for example....

IE00B3XXRP09
SP500 (listed in London Stock Excange)

However, in Degiro list, it says that it is denominated in EUR.

So, do I need to prepare EUR, or GBP to buy that SP500?

Thank you.

ICH
Posts: 218
Joined: Wed Jun 13, 2018 3:08 am

Re: Brokerage and DEGIRO ETFs - MiFID II

Post by ICH » Sat Jan 12, 2019 3:48 am

To the best of my knowledge:
Degiro is having a list of no-commission ETFs.
In this list you will see the ETF ticker, its ISIN and in which exchange you can buy it with no commission. If you buy the same ETF in another exchange, you will pay commission as usual.
An ETF may trade in different currencies in different exchanges.

indexfundinvestor.eu
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Oct 14, 2018 7:56 am
Contact:

Re: Brokerage and DEGIRO ETFs - MiFID II

Post by indexfundinvestor.eu » Sat Jan 12, 2019 7:54 am

Many of the ETFs suggested in the bogleheads wiki pages are free of commissions on DeGiro (when bought in a specific exchange). The full list of commisison free ETFs: https://www.degiro.ie/data/pdf/ie/commi ... s-list.pdf

IE00B4L5Y983 - iShares MSCI World accumulating , TER= 0.2%
IE00B4L5YC18 - iShares MSCI EM accumulating, TER=0.68%
IE00B3RBWM25 - Vanguard All World, TER=0.25%

When I had almost everything prepared to start investing, the MiFID II law came out and closed all the good ETFs on Degiro for me.
Now, I can't find any good alternative. I am from Portugal which also makes it more difficult
I think you can find in justETF any ETF that fits your investment criteria: https://www.justetf.com/uk/find-etf.html and most (if not all) of them will be available in DeGiro.

User avatar
BeBH65
Posts: 1467
Joined: Sat Jul 04, 2015 7:28 am

Re: Brokerage and DEGIRO ETFs - MiFID II

Post by BeBH65 » Sat Jan 12, 2019 9:09 am

alexfoo39 wrote:
Sat Jan 12, 2019 2:47 am
Hi, want to ask question on Degiro ...

i saw that from Degiro offered 'free' ETF list, there are index fund for SP500, world index etc....

for example....

IE00B3XXRP09
SP500 (listed in London Stock Excange)

However, in Degiro list, it says that it is denominated in EUR.

So, do I need to prepare EUR, or GBP to buy that SP500?

Thank you.
One can buy the same fund on different exchange s in different currencies. example. Odin code would be the same, ticker can be the same or different.
The free trades with degiro is for a specific currency on a specific exchange.
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). | Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles

Post Reply