Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

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UncleLeo
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Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by UncleLeo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:27 pm

Probably a dumb question :oops: but due to the price calculation of VTSAX being made after the market closes, I rather be sure:
If I place an order today (markets closed) to buy VTSAX would the transaction be executed at the last determined price ($66.72) or would it be executed on the price determined after markets close on Jan 2nd? When would the execution happen?

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CAsage
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by CAsage » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:32 pm

Per Vanguard:

The financial markets will be closed on Monday, January 1, 2018, for the New Year's Day holiday. Transactions and other requests received after 4 p.m., Eastern time, on Friday, December 29, 2017, and before the close of the markets on Tuesday, January 2, 2018, will be handled as if received on Tuesday, January 2, 2018. The fund prospectus explains how transaction trade dates are determined.
Salvia Clevelandii "Winifred Gilman" my favorite. YMMV; not a professional advisor.

livesoft
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by livesoft » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:34 pm

After markets close on Jan 2.
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UncleLeo
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by UncleLeo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:38 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:34 pm
After markets close on Jan 2.
immediately after markets close on Jan 2 - meaning 4pm EST and before a new price of VTSAX is calculated? Or after a new price has been calculated (at around 6pm)?

What I'm trying to ask is whether there is a time I can buy VTSAX in a predictable (listed) price.
Last edited by UncleLeo on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.

livesoft
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by livesoft » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:40 pm

The answer to your last question is: Never.

If you want a predictable price, use VTI and a limit order.

No one can ever buy a mutual fund at a known price. One always gets the price calculated after your order and after the market close.
Last edited by livesoft on Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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mortfree
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by mortfree » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:40 pm

You might be a good candidate to invest in VTI (the ETF version of VTSAX).

Livesoft beat me to it

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Alexa9
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by Alexa9 » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:41 pm

You will get the end of day price on Tuesday. Barring global apocalypse, you should be fine. If you're worried cancel the order now or anytime on Tuesday. If I were to execute a large mutual fund order, I would wait and see what VTI is doing at 3:30.

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badbreath
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by badbreath » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:52 pm

OP, this is what you should think about
You will get the end of day price on Tuesday. Barring global apocalypse, you should be fine
.
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by jhfenton » Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:53 pm

As livesoft said, technically never. But, since VTI is another share class of VTSAX, you can calculate for yourself the end of day price of VTSAX within a few pennies at 3:59 PM on a market day by looking at the price change in VTI. As a mostly-large-cap domestic ETF, it trades with minimal premium or discount. They track very, very closely day to day.

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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by bayview » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:01 pm

badbreath wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 7:52 pm
OP, this is what you should think about
You will get the end of day price on Tuesday. Barring global apocalypse, you should be fine
.
+1

Whenever I'm shuffling funds around and trying to do so at the best price --> note, this is a ridiculous waste of time and effort, just buy the darn things --> I follow VTI to see if it's up or down that day.

It doesn't always track for VTSAX, and note above, this is a ridiculous wast of time and effort, just buy the darn things. :happy
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UncleLeo
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by UncleLeo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:03 pm

Thanks, everyone! :beer
I'll place the order (and monitor for VTI on tuesday, just in case...)

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UncleLeo
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by UncleLeo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:09 pm

While placing an order in which I move money from a federal money market fund to VTSAX I got the following message:
"Money moves out of your settlement fund one business day after your trade date."
Does that mean the transaction would be executed on Jan 3 EOD if I place it now? (extra 1 day delay)
So confusing ... :(

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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by edge » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:13 pm

Settlement is not the same as execution. You obtain the price on the 2nd closing, money does not move until a day or two or whatever later.
UncleLeo wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:09 pm
While placing an order in which I move money from a federal money market fund to VTSAX I got the following message:
"Money moves out of your settlement fund one business day after your trade date."
Does that mean the transaction would be executed on Jan 3 EOD if I place it now? (extra 1 day delay)
So confusing ... :(

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UncleLeo
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by UncleLeo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:13 pm

edge wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:13 pm
Settlement is not the same as execution. You obtain the price on the 2nd closing, money does not move until a day or two or whatever later.
UncleLeo wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:09 pm
While placing an order in which I move money from a federal money market fund to VTSAX I got the following message:
"Money moves out of your settlement fund one business day after your trade date."
Does that mean the transaction would be executed on Jan 3 EOD if I place it now? (extra 1 day delay)
So confusing ... :(
Got it! thank you :happy

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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by Longdog » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:17 pm

UncleLeo wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:03 pm
Thanks, everyone! :beer
I'll place the order (and monitor for VTI on tuesday, just in case...)
Once you've placed the order to purchase a mutual fund with Vanguard (pressed 'submit'), there's no opportunity to rescind the order. You can certainly monitor for VTI on Tuesday, but if you've already placed the order there is nothing you can do in that "just in case" scenario.
Steve

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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by livesoft » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:22 pm

Longdog wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:17 pm
Once you've placed the order to purchase a mutual fund with Vanguard (pressed 'submit'), there's no opportunity to rescind the order. You can certainly monitor for VTI on Tuesday, but if you've already placed the order there is nothing you can do in that "just in case" scenario.
Is that still true? I thought that at least with a Vanguard brokerage account (not the old-style mutual fund account) that one could cancel such orders if they were not executed.
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UncleLeo
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by UncleLeo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:29 pm

Longdog wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:17 pm
UncleLeo wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:03 pm
Thanks, everyone! :beer
I'll place the order (and monitor for VTI on tuesday, just in case...)
Once you've placed the order to purchase a mutual fund with Vanguard (pressed 'submit'), there's no opportunity to rescind the order. You can certainly monitor for VTI on Tuesday, but if you've already placed the order there is nothing you can do in that "just in case" scenario.
I've placed the order. Got a confirmation email from vanguard. Logged in again, Went to "Order status" and I see a clickable cancel button belonging to this transaction.
Can anyone confirm that cancelation would still be available until next closing day (Jan 2 in this case) ?

livesoft
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by livesoft » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:33 pm

"anyone"? You can. Just click the cancel button and tell us what happens. :) If the order is cancelled, then you can always submit it again.
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UncleLeo
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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by UncleLeo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:07 pm

livesoft wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:33 pm
"anyone"? You can. Just click the cancel button and tell us what happens. :) If the order is cancelled, then you can always submit it again.
I'm pretty sure that the order could be canceled as of now ("cancel" button appears to be clickable). I was wondering if it will still be there after the market opens on Jan 2, and was hoping someone had experience with that. Anyways I will update on Tuesday on whether the button is still there.

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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by Uniballer » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:24 pm

In my experience, ff you cancel the order early in the trading day, it should be cancelled.

If you wait too long (some unspecified time, probably in the afternoon) you will not be able to cancel. I assume this is because Vanguard starts buying/selling shares before market close for orders that it knows about.

If you need to be sure that your order will not be executed if you don't like the price trend then wait until almost the close of the markets before placing your order.

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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by jhfenton » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:07 pm

Uniballer wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:24 pm
In my experience, ff you cancel the order early in the trading day, it should be cancelled.

If you wait too long (some unspecified time, probably in the afternoon) you will not be able to cancel. I assume this is because Vanguard starts buying/selling shares before market close for orders that it knows about.

If you need to be sure that your order will not be executed if you don't like the price trend then wait until almost the close of the markets before placing your order.
This is accurate. The cutoff for cancellation is early afternoon EST, possibly 1 PM. I know that I've cancelled orders before 1 PM and been unable to cancel them after 2 PM. I don't recall if I've tried to cancel one in between. It doesn't happen very often.

The cancel button actually never goes away. You can't tell whether it's cancellable or not until you try and they let you or they don't.

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Re: Placing an order to buy VTSAX, at what price will the transaction be executed?

Post by Longdog » Mon Jan 01, 2018 5:10 am

UncleLeo wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:29 pm
Longdog wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:17 pm
UncleLeo wrote:
Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:03 pm
Thanks, everyone! :beer
I'll place the order (and monitor for VTI on tuesday, just in case...)
Once you've placed the order to purchase a mutual fund with Vanguard (pressed 'submit'), there's no opportunity to rescind the order. You can certainly monitor for VTI on Tuesday, but if you've already placed the order there is nothing you can do in that "just in case" scenario.
I've placed the order. Got a confirmation email from vanguard. Logged in again, Went to "Order status" and I see a clickable cancel button belonging to this transaction.
Can anyone confirm that cancelation would still be available until next closing day (Jan 2 in this case) ?
I wonder if that’s a capability in the new brokerage accounts. I am still on the legacy platform and have automatic purchases set up. On Friday morning, I noticed that their system had doubled up on my scheduled purchase, and would attempt to pull double the usual amount from my checking account. No ability to cancel, even after I called them and they acknowledged the situation. It has been escalated to their resolution team. The order went through.
Steve

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